385. Self-Harm Squad

How's your connection seeming? Good, good, good. Let's just talk for a minute. Oh wow, you sound really good. Oh, hooray. You do anything different? Um, I have a real laptop and a real phone, so everything's like connected and working. And I have I don't have better internet, but But you sound very good. This feels very intimate. Um, I mean I've been playing uh uh uh uh d do you want me to I can I can move away? I can I can do the I uh is this the show? Did it seem like I was complaining about the intimacy? Um Did I push you away? You know what I think this says more about me. Oh no! I should explain that my M might be fine solo. I But at least I'm flying free, Alex Uh uh last night I didn't go out to a to a large party, but um it did watched Wicked for the sixth time, I believe.

Wicked, um we're talking about we're talking about the musical from the early two thousands. What are you talking about? Um Mm. Uh, you know what? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I should have mentioned there's been a release of a movie musical Wicked based on the 2003 Broadway show. Tip of the hat. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That was confusing. Tip of the hat. Two to two t tip of the hat to wicked. The our household is uh quite a fan because now there are three fun co sorry, Matthew is still here. Um, I I was not sluggish this morning. I'm sluggish most mornings, but mm um my spouse had the audacity to sleep in on his day off. I I have I have uh well my my family uh my family thinks of me anymore, but I I I don't know, I I pointlessly try to defend myself and say, you know If I can sleep, I sleep.

That's the thing. It's like if I can get sleep, I do sleep. And part of my sleep process, and this sounds like bullshit, it might be, but I think it's true, is also just me dealing with anxiety. and intrusive thoughts. Where it's like I'm also just trying to learn, I'm always constantly applying different strategies to the most lightweight, non-invasive way that I cannot find myself with my brain racing. And if I fall asleep after that and it's 10 a. m. , I'm okay with that. Then that didn't happen today. That's not why I'm sluggish, I don't think. But but but so so what I do is I say something like hello everyone family meeting stand by and you say stand by and then that's what we say in our house say family meeting standby Uh that's tip of the hat.

Uh did you watch did we watch a Seth Rudetsky video together? Did we ever do that? I don't think so. I don't know. Oh we're gonna we're gonna do that today. Um tip of the hat tip of the hat to uh go uh R-U-D-E-T T S K Y I feel like the one I probably sent you was waving through a window. Although I um I also might have sent you Skylar sisters. Oh you are I tip of the hat. Yes. Tip of the hat to Wicked. He's the the b one of the Broadway men, the Broadway YouTube men. He's my he's my ideal YouTube guy. He's just a charming. He talks on camera. There's no there's no cuts at all. And he says, uh sometimes you'll say that's neither here nor there. I also love that. Um but um but um but um but um but um what I'll say is uh a family meeting, uh stand by and then I'll say and and by the way when I say stand by I like that, that's tip of the hat to Markle in house moving castle.

You remember when we're about to open the door and he puts on the beard? And he goes, stand by. And that means everybody look out. That's he's played by PETA from the Hunger G Hunger Games. Hunger. Hunger Games. Did you know did you know that that means bread? Did you and did you know that in the movies and in the books he's a uh it's all sometimes called maze? Oh, that's wrong. Oh, you mean Maze Maze what you call porn? So Alex Alex's still working on their puzzle. Well you got a cool hand-drawn maze. The show is unapproachable today Should we start the show? This is Do by Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Alex Cox and Merlin Mann. This week's challenge, play balattro. How uh um how was your holiday?

Holiday's great, rabbit rabbit! We have so many I have so many compulsions I've got to get out of my system every day. Did you ever see Suicide Squad that movie? Sorry, Self-Arm Squad. Did you ever see that movie? I I'm familiar with the KMS squad. What uh KMFTM is a drug against war. What's KMS? A cool means uh Um no that is a root means RMS means root means square. Oh boy! That's how the They no, the that's how the kids say it bec because of algorithms. And I thought you were more familiar with TikTok. than I was just because of your daily access to a younger person. Alex Sweetie. I um You and our friend are pretty much off Twitter at this point, right? Is that what I'm getting? Um so what I was gonna say was Hey Rabbit Rabbit.

It's the super rabbit. No, no, I will not allow that. No no no I'm not gonna be bothered. Something has changed with her name. I have take I have taken uh you will make you popular R. Way. Ar? When when when the girls from the play when the musical word it wasn't that awesome? Oh yeah. The And you couldn't have watched it six times. I've been trying to steal it for months. It only I bought it. Oh, you saw it in the theater three times? Yes. Holy shit. Yes. But like I said, like one and a half because d it was just yesterday and there wasn't good uh There yeah, there was I really tried to set up my my apparatus like you. Well the apparatus it's it has you know the uh the sh things just don't leak anymore.

Uh which is okay. I was happy to pay for it. Thirty bucks seemed a little steep, but then I says to myself, I says, well three people, ten bucks a piece, you know, that's not actually not so bad. And I like to support the arts. But um but uh but uh but um the but uh uh wicked and This show is supported by people who support the yeah, the the arts, the little listeners like you Yeah, they go the little paint tubes go to giveusyourfucking money. com and tote bags. I'm writing this down. We should make tote bags. Because you know what people need more of is tote bags. Tote bags and water bottles are two things people need more of. All right. I've I've overcorrected and have you even tried to find gravity?

Because I get the sense you haven't even tried. Like I have I've like lost all my tote bags. It's never gonna bring me down I don't know how much of this is a bit of you liking it. Oh yeah, yeah, I've seen wicked. Yeah, for for like, I don't know, fifteen years I've had that entire song memorized. It's a bit. I'm not an OG. I'm not an OG, but I also I also because of people like someone else I do a podcast with, I I I feel the constant pressure to not enjoy anything until I've enjoyed it correctly and and entirely. Right? Ah, yes. You know what I'm saying? Now the thing is there was a time in America, during the Great America, the times of the Great American songbook, when you could just hear a song from a musical.

You could hear something like um Like a cold, let's say let's take a cold like a classic cold porter song, right? You take the song like My Favorite, I've Got You Under My Skin. Um Uh actually my favorite's night and day. Night and day, I got you under my skin, anything goes, you know, you take those kinds of songs. Well, I think there's a time when you weren't expected to have seen the stage show and know everything about the history of it before you're allowed to like In this case, define gravity. I didn't expect anything. You take it so personal. I that that's because I thought you said that this was intimate. So I Oh geez, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Let's reboot. This is very intimate. Alright, I gotta pull back up the lyrics for Wicked.

So I had never I had never heard I'd heard I'd heard and listened to and loved. I was obsessed with two songs um for for a long time, right? As much as I'm like not qualified because I've never seen the show or read the book. Um, but uh Define Gravity and Popular. And I was a half uh not a half fan, but like I was less familiar with, but really enjoyed the um loathing song. Which I think is Billy's second favorite in the in the show. As as Matt is going to be saying as he listens to this. What's it gonna be saying? It's actually what is this feeling? It's not the loathing song, Merlin. It's what is this feeling? It's so sudden. That's what it was originally called in the original French version from 1985.

24601. Cause you know Sean Connery originated the role before Colin Wilkinson. Before Collin Wilkinson it was Did you know that? Did you know James Bond was the original um Belshawn? You know, I'm not sure if you're a little something. There was a time, Merlin, that you didn't have to know you didn't have to know the original uh James. Like it's just it's it's i I I it weighs on me. It weighs it it's like something that just hangs over my head, is this idea of like being concerned about enjoying something because you're enjoying it wrong. It just It it makes me sad. And and that's why, you know, when I meet the wizard, um can I also just say Oh my god, spoilers. Your whole life will change. Oh spoilers for I didn't I didn't there's so much I didn't know about the lore of like how it connects with the movie Like Billy goes, you see that little lion in a cage?

I'm like, yeah. He's like, mm-hmm. I'm like, oh, no way. Like stuff like that. It it's I I'm not sure. Did you like the goat with the glasses? I love the goat with the glasses. Oh yeah, Tyrion was the goat. I was I didn't expect it. I said there's I said somebody in I don't know his name, Dr. Turdball or whatever. In pro Professor Linament's uh life, I think there's somebody doing a lot of emotional and physical labor for him. I've seen goats. Glasses or otherwise, they have cloven hooves, and I don't think they can actually make tea on their own. Well uh and but and in this universe You know, Miss Alphaba needs to help uh uh the goat Tyrion to make or to pick up his tea, and uh that's why I'm Yeah, how's he usually do that?

Exactly. I should like it and if there's anybody in the entire production who should know not to help somebody overhelp somebody with what appears to be a clear disability, like she's very sensitive to overhelping. Yes. But a goat ain't got no well, see, now I'm gonna that's it's go that's goat ableism. It's bad. You ever seen a goat climb the side of a you ever seen a goat climb climb a wall? You ever seen how a goat climbs the side of a cliff? You ever seen Yeah. Well in person? No. No, I haven't seen it in person as much. I've seen goats do crazy shit. I have seen goats in in the wild because we had goats at our petting zoo at the zoo, at our zoo. Okay. I got so so goats in the wild or goats in a zoo?

Has anyone ever truly met a wild goat? Yes. It has certain satanic implications. Yeah. I'm not going to be able to do that. Because of the Christopher Columbus implications. Well did you know people were never meant to walk on two legs? I went to NYU, the city's my campus. Grandmama Grandmama, you busy hedgehog You tall lesbian. You watched it finally, didn't you? So I'm not going to Something's changed within you. This is unbearable. Do you want to start the show over? Hey Matt, you're gonna listen to this one. No! Would you like to No Are you saying goodbye? Yeah. Bye Matt. No, he does sometime. Uh bye. Oh. Oh. Oh, ew no, I didn't push mute. Go away, go away. Uh uh the uh is very queer-coded.

Oh, go Oh yes. What and you missed we rapid fired like we talked about our entire day in that like 30 seconds. Oh and like the things that you're disappointed in yourself and them. That's called that yeah, that's called the the AM pow wow. And then the afternoon and the evening you get together and you talk again about how you're still disappointed with each other. Well yeah, that's the evening i evening stand-up is a stand-up because of a stand-up meeting? Yeah I got a notion. But anyway, that so you guys have you guys enjoyed that? Because see I was I In my could you say one quick thing? I was mobbed up i I never know how to talk about this because it sounds so weird, but my first big foray, what became my first foray into blogging, was really on Live Journal.

in starting in ninety nine or two thousand for like two or three years. I just you know, I don't know if were you doing live journal then? Oh, not until like two thousand and one. Yeah, but like I just I made so many cool friends there and that's how I learned about the long winners. Like, you know, but these I was learning about the long winners from like people who went to NYU and Emerson. Like and like there were these I don't know if this is a phrase people use. What's a phrase do you call because theater kids, what do you call like people who hang out the Uh well Theater Kid isn't always disparaging. See, I think of Theater Kid as like Did you ever see Cast Party for the Crucible on SNL?

No, but I wait, may I don't think so. Very eighty Brian. Like it's like, oh man, this this the cast party for the crucible is gonna get wild. We're gonna be up till like eleven thirty. Yes. So I think yeah, there's like a diff That's theater kids. Yeah, like there's a lot of theater kids who aren't theater nerds, and there's a lot of theater nerds who aren't theater. If you've never met one of those couples, You know? Yeah. With the win in the game, man. Yeah. I woke up like this. Yeah. Sorry. All you listen to is the mountain goats and all that I think about is Chris Fleming. Um but I but so I was aware of them these and you know it's one of those these are these are kids that are just barely college aged at that time and you could tell like they're they're too cool for school and you know they like Ted Leo and they go see musicals and they're they were dear friends of mine that I I made people who were you know twenty plus years younger than me And then it, you know, I learned a lot, you know, through those people.

And like it might it just must be so neat. The same way that I think it's so cool that you can just get on BART and go to the East Bay. If you live here, you know, you can get to wherever here. It's really that's so different from where I grew up. I it must be so neat to be able to like go and get cheap tickets to a Broadway show and like You know what I mean? And like, I don't know, it just seems like it must be kind of a thrilling thing to get to do. And that's that's where I first heard about it, I think, was kind of in that crowd. The original wick. Oh, okay. Yeah. The um The rant was also pretty big at that time, I feel like. No, it wa uh well actually uh I've I think I've told this story before.

Wait, are you are you are you messing with my chronol is is the chronology wrong? Is that is that no it's it's not. It's Uh rent was just n not a almost a decade uh earlier, like mid-90s, because it was still it was kind of the tail end of the AIDS decade epidemic and um I've I think I've got still on Broadway at that point? No? Yeah. Actually I don't think it No, well it definitely I could absolutely be remembering this wrong, so I apologize. I I think it was still on Broadway, but the reason that I got into Wicked initially was because I Dina Menzel Yeah, and she was and I was into writing. No, no, that's that's no that's Rosario Dawson. Oh no, she's the one she's the one that messes with everybody, right?

Yes. M Maureen is the bisexual bitch. They're not mutually exclusive. Don't care. So she's got the black she's got the black girlfriend and then also the uh the privileged camera boy. Yes. What's that guy's name? Mark. Mark. Yeah, there's Mark Suzanne Colin uh ho ho Collins. Angel do you mind? I know Angel, I know Angel, Angel, and then you Angel's the one who killed the dog. Allegedly. And then you got uh you got the guy from uh Law and Order, improbably enough. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh Benny, yes. Oh fuck Benny. I didn't know he was on Law and Order, which was on uh Law and Order SVU is oh that show. Isn't that show good? I can't make this show. This show's so good. Olivia. That should be a challenge.

We should watch the Olivia episode. Olivia. The little girl on the phone. Olivia! Wait, whip little girl? There's there's so many. Which Olivia? Oh. Olivia! She might be a hostage on a plane, maybe? I'm not sure. I thought those were the snakes. I mean they're Roll Well Sparza is still my favorite being alive, I'll just say it. Uh he has he's the best ADA on SVU. Yes. Including the originals, the OGs. I'm talking S V U. I have uh I don't think I've ever actually seen a full episode of the original Law and Order. Fuck my mouth. Are you kidding me? Because you know Jerry Orbach was also a great Broadway star. The ye I m really? I mean I knew he was in things. Oh yeah, he was in fantastics. He was in like one of the most popular musicals of the Oh, he was also in Promises, Promises.

And because he had to sing the song Promises Promises, written by Back Rack and David, it was such a difficult song. that um basically the Dion Warwick single that was the hit was also kind of like, nah, I I might be putting this wrong. Nothing against Mr. Warbach. And by the way, somebody in New York ha two different people in New York have his eyes right now, according to John Mullaney. But but um but but no, he um he promises, promises, and uh do don't promises, promises uh I don't know how I got the nerve, you know, to walk out. In that song? I'm so excited, just had this episode. Oh no. See, this is the problem. This is the problem. Okay, I might have to do that. Wait, what's the problem?

What's the time 1955? I might have dropped in some promises. He I think he sang Try to Remember from um you know song Try to Remember the kind of September when this was all and no that song? Try to Remember? No. I think it's from Fantastics. This is not th this is not a critique, but a friend of the show and former editor Quinn. If I don't talk about dicks one, I'm going to g I get the I get the messages. What you know what? God damn it. All right. That's it. I'm done. I'm fucking calling you on this because I've had it. You know that drives me crazy when you tell me that Wha how what are people contacting you about and how? Do you want to cut the most common question right now is uh about a podcast why you haven't been releasing a podcast that isn't this one?

Okay, so they have stuff like that. Okay. I send you the good stuff. No, no. No, I and I don't I mean I like the people listening to the show and I want to be friends with them, but I just I just I don't like the idea I don't like the idea of having an emotional inbox in my life that anybody can fill. I I do. I want people to t fill fill it up and it's almost like we're different people. I know, right? It's it's wild. It's like we saw Wicked at two different times. But it makes people it makes people I don't know. Sometimes people can be weird. Oh, yes. Yeah, and it it bumps me out because like I if you know enough about what we're doing to have an opinion about it, I would hope that you would like the stuff that we've done or that we do, but like I don't know.

It's just uh we all do it, but like man You know, I'm just a guy. I'm just a dude. I'm just a whatever. I'm just a fucking waste of carbon over here. Don't be mean to me, please. Like just No, I don't want to be too I mean, I understand some mean to me, but I swear to Christ I'm always trying. We wouldn't know it from what I make, but I swear to God I'm always trying. It's everything you say that all I hear is Merlin sucks. That's all I hear every time you say that. Because I'm self-involved. No. People contacting you about things all the time. Contacting you. Probably you have no Discord. You're inviting me to queer chats all the time on Patreon. Like I don't know what is happening in your life, but you have so much information coming into your life I do not w well I'm not sure.

Somebody on your behalf has sent me two different invitations to some kind of queer online chat, which is great, except it's I'm learning there's you you are creating inboxes for yourself all the time. Wait, from you. I don't prefer it. Oh Jesus fucking Christ. I'll find it. Why are you confused? Okay. I'm searching. I have a I have a launch bar uh shortcut. GMA, which is search my Gmail. Spacebar. Um, Alex Patreon. Join Alex Cox Independent Queer Tech Podcast in their new chat 2025 Steam. Oh god, that's yes. Yes. Oh, okay. I have hey, I'm not sure. Jo I'm sorry. Can you just real real quick, almost done? Um join join Alex Cox Colin, independent queer tech podcast in the new fault new in the new chat colon scoot scoot.

Not my fault. Join Alex Cox in their new community chat. N not my fault. Okay. Because you have the audacity to support one of my Patreon projects. Oh, I do that. And despite the settings, which is no, don't alert people. I don't want this to be a good thing. Wait, wait, wait, you're telling me Patreon has added some kind of new piece of UI somewhere? Yes. That that when Oh my God, I can't believe how hard it how What what a what a what a what a what a trek it is to upload a podcast to Patreon now. There's new dismiss X's everywhere now. I am so embarrassed. Why don't I know? I don't want to do anything. Oh God. What's embarrassing? No, that you are getting the that anybody who would get those alerts that don't want to par that have been like, yes, I subscribe.

to this feed, I want to see things that are in this feed. And then you go to a separate part and say, I want to be alerted about this little dingus. And so there's like a little it's really okay. I kn no, I don't like wow, I peaked. I can I g can I just give you a note that you can take or leave? Y yeah. I'll check the spelling on independent. Oh. So just you know it's no big, but just have a just double check. So, you know, credibility. Tip of the hat. Well, exactly. Tip of the hat. So God, we have so much to watch together. Tip of the hat, tip of the hat, tip of the hat. Okay. But is it doesn't it turn you off? Like I have as the uh I don't want to talk about the internet. I m m you started talking about the internet.

No, I was talking about people. You're the one talking about the internet. I'm talking about people. You think it's the internet, I think it's people. I think I you I think it Gets the people to add Patreon Who Keep Go Not letting me give money to the people that I I in a way that I want and then let people kindly give us. Doesn't matter. Um I something has changed within me. I think Billy is gonna see it in the theater additionally now. Oh yeah, so I had two I had two reviews. I had two reviews on Letterboxd last night. Um one of them was uh uh the they're both shit posts. But the the first one was uh I like that the goat wears glasses. One review. And the other review, I think it was Exquisite.

Exquisite. Uh newline, new line. Like being in the gift shop for a dream. Have you ever been to downtown Disney at any Disney property? Yeah. So much of that movie, not in a bad way. But like it it was really was like my dreams in some ways, which do involve things like gift stores. There were so many sh things scenes in that movie, like sets. that r like I've I I had three different minor asset flashbacks last night, just for what it's worth. Nothing bad, nothing I see the need to see a doctor about, but there was two in particular where I definitely was having and I was like I said to Madeline, doesn't this f feel a little bit like tripping and maybe a little bit like a bad trip at points. She's like it absolutely feels like that.

The camera goes upside down and flies into a gift shop. It all looks like a gift shop. It's all like Hog. It's like Hogwarts Gift. I love that band. Yeah. I I am not a fan of most gift shops, but when you say and when you say, well, okay, g I I my mind immediately goes through exit through through the gift shop. The documentary is theoretically kind of about Banksy. Yeah, and uh mm so many. Yeah, I know. I think that that that this all became less amusing to be a really long time ago. Oh, you made a stencil. That's cool. Yeah. Got a hand-drawn names. I get it. Fair Shepherd Fair. I I get it. I get it. I can't spell independence. I shouldn't be allowed to No, I was don't even understand what I was trying to help No, you were.

Oh fuck, I'm sorry. I was No, no, no, no, no, no. I was recently um gift shops. Uh gift shops. Oh no and I recently was in a gift shop and I now I'm just trying to think whether how I f feel about them and how I feel about it. Well just on your no but it's just not a value thing, but on your next viewing, because I imagine you'll have at least one more probably tonight after your tonight. Oh I I first I I got so I wasn't like, you know Uh when I said I was slu I was sluggish I it was mostly just I was going to the bathroom. I I knew it was gonna you know I tried to keep I tried to save you from from a lot of the information. But I just need a little extra time, so thank you. But no I was I forgot up and I did watch uh I did watch Define Gravity again.

in particular. I love the cape. Oh, and I love that move she does. That that that that little swing she does in the window. Uh the when when um Well there are a lot of swings. I agree. Well uh when um when Glenda puts the the cape on her and ties it on Oh and she she she all but says there now you look like a real witch but then she does she does she pulls out her hair she flips her hair out Like Linda. And then she and then she does that that cool turn. By the way, how great are those boots? I told Madeline she should get those boots. Those are great boots. Honestly, the buttons on her I mean. Oh, she has great buttons How do they find people the same size? They're both do you know how little both of them are?

It's insane. They're both very little cute together. They are just oh m oh my god. And I liked in the third late in the third act when they gave Elphaba a second expression to have. Because most of the movies she kinda has the one expression. And then at the end when she when he she has her comedy glasses off and she's like singing big and you can see her teeth. And she looks like a cartoon character? Oh my god. I'm now you sure it wasn't an an acid situation I've done. Then Billy showed me pictures of the male leech. He said, actually he he's really He looks weird here. He's a lot more he's super gay and a lot more handsome with the beard. And I was like, you know, he is a lot more handsome with the beard.

I agree. I did not know. I I He seems charming. I didn't know who he was. I I he he's in the bridge show, the Shonda show. The bridge show. Uh Bridgerton? I don't enjoy a media the right way. Uh Bridgerton, yes, which I haven't seen. I uh Well not about not about I mean I don't know if they have sex during the period. I don't know if they had periods back then. But Yeah yeah. They went in a tent. I think they did a hole in a sheet. Overseen by a vicar. Domine Domini. That ain't no holy water. No. I gotta go. Um ba-da-ba-da-da-da-ba-da. Define gravity. Um Does Matt like m musical stuff? Oh, yeah. Did you yes. Like that is his thing. What are like that's if if you're comfortable saying on his behalf, what what are some What are some musicals he particularly likes?

Wicked is his by far. Oh, that's so awesome. So he's he's loved it for a long time, huh? Oh yeah yeah. That's awesome. This movie was thrilling. I mean I'm I'm having fun with it, but I I was just I thought it was v fr i again, film that knows what it is. It was very Barbie in a lot of ways, but it knew what it was. Except for certain points, I love the cinematography. The look by the second act did start to feel a little like a Netflix movie But I still love the way it looked. And and but like how does Alphabet's sister get to go into into the into the Turning Library? Is the I know exactly. You can't say that anymore, but it's a question I was wondering. I did literally in the middle of the year.

Just imagining some little some little villager monkey guy just standing there going, sorry Wheels, you gotta be this tall. Like so, yeah. Thanks, Wheels. It's a tribute to the Burger King Kids Club. Oh he was the battery crappy. Yeah. Is um i is is her father Did I get from like her little kind of remind me of Dune prophecy a little bit? She has that flash. Is is her dad like a bad animal guy? I mean her her her adopt well you know her her her father father like the guy the guy with the hat is is he like a bad animal guy? I bet he is, right? I have not uh I uh started reading the book when in in like Billy says there's a ton more sex in the book It's so I stopped reading it. It was so gross.

Yeah, yeah. uh the animals uh that i and the like you know the it's there's a lot of Uh, there was a lot of uh metaphors for gay rights that didn't play out great when there was like implied bestiality. And I was twelve and suppressing things, so I was like, But I mean that's I would put that somewhere in perhaps in the tradition of like Animal Farm, where it's like, well, or for that matter a Godzilla movie. Like a Godzilla movie lets us talk about nuclear bombs. And Wicked lets us talk about day things. I'm saying that I worry like I'm I am I have now started listening to the audiobook and I'm like Like, okay, I understand why this upset me, but yeah. Is it funny? It's a funny book, right? No, not really a funny book?

I don't think so. I could be Literally. The uh right now I'm like the You might be more uh into the wicked I thought I was real in the middle. No, I'm not. No, I barely know. I'm s I'm sitting here just, you know, I'm just happy. You know, I actually did say it to Billy last night. I don't want to be right. I I don't want to be happy. What we what were we arguing about? Oh, we were arguing. Oh, we were talking about it. We got into an argument about eating disorders, and I can't say why Anyway. Oh yeah, because just mentioning. Because apparently that's in the discourse, and I found that out last night. Oh yeah. So if there's anyways, and I super don't want to talk about that. Yeah, there I think she's delightful.

Did you see her hosting SNL? Isn't she something? Yes. She's a force. She's got such a spark. Like she just lights up on screen in a way very few people do. I have nothing bad to say about her and I think they're strong. She works really hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She seems very nice. Yeah, she does seem nice. I mean imagine what she's gotta put up with in life. My god. to put up with on the internet. People some people do create more inboxes for themselves. Ye So it's a really I enjoyed it very much. And I'll I'll watch it again. I paid 30 bucks for it. Hope to shout. I'm gonna watch it again Wow, well thank you so much everybody. It's been a big week here. Rabbit Rabbit and uh that Merlin did the challenge.

It's I did the challenge real hard for two weeks. Oh, oh, are you ready to to do that? Are you ready to talk about the challenge? Are you? Should we start the show? Oh wait, let me see if I got anything else. Tip of the hat. Oh yes, sing your complaints. That's a challenge. Tote bag. No, I think that's everything. Challenge Wait, no, no, uh circle back, circle back. I just need to play something for you quickly because I was listening to uh this this is a cautionary tale about listening to podcasts on uh without Is it is it is it a wicked related podcast? Um no it is a Hitler related podcast when the U co-host. And I've gotten real back into Hitler lately. Um I've been reading Eric Larson's Yeah uh have have you read his um In the Belly of the Beasts?

Nope. The it it's about Have I ever got something for you? Oh my god I'm I'm br I'm ready. Okay, just say real quick because you might have already watched it. And this is gonna sound weird because I'm recommending a Hitler thing, but I actually think this is a Hitler thing that a lot of people could enjoy, uh even people who know lots of Hitler stuff, and it has an angle. Have you seen the new Netflix series? No, not at all. Man, it's called Netflix. This is how you get on a list. Netflix Hitler Okay, uh the amount of times I've typed Luigi into the browsers without VPNs this past month, I'm on so many lists. Oh boy. What am I what am I to glean from that? Oh I see, I see. Yes. Okay. It's I mean, you know, it's it's a Netflix show.

But like it's it's very well done and uh it's hard to describe. It's basically about Hitler. It's a six. If it's Netflix, it's probably ten, but multi-party. It's about Hitler and it's got lots of like very well done reenactments, but let me give you the hook for it. the hook on at first appears to be that it's it's really it's kind of about everything leading up to Nuremberg, and so like all c intercut all through the series, which is about Hitler, but it's about, you know, it's about Rome, it's about, you know, Goering, it's about Hess, it's about all of them, but you know, through the Hitler thing. But it's intercut constantly through cut to nineteen forty six and I know son I can see why people would hate this, but it's like beautifully done reenactments, but they use the original audio from Nuremberg.

And I think they do a really nice job with it. I But here's the big hook. Um a book I read 30 years ago. Uh I think his name's William William Shearer, I think his name is, wrote that book. You've probably seen that big fat book that says the the rise and fall of the Third Reich. It's the time. And he also did. He's done a ton of books. He was a d an American journalist. Reporting on in Germany and was there like kind of from the beginning and it's it's I know this is not gonna sell it, but it's really cool. He's the through line through the whole show. It's the reporting of William Shearer. And then what leads up, and he of course reported also at Nuremberg, is the line through all of this. So It's I th uh just give it a shot.

It's it's really good. And the guy who plays Hitler is is definitely not a theater kid. plays hit oh so there's there oh oh I get really excited for this but it's like you know when I say I reenactments I don't know for some reason I always think of those South Korean like news videos You know, you ever seen those like wackadoo reenactments that they do? They need to come back. I haven't seen any good ones on the book. Do you remember Parks the Parks and Rec with the Harvest Festival? Yeah, the Wama Pokes. There's two things I know white people. They love Rachel Ray and they hate curses. Um but uh but uh but no but I I I think uh sorry, that's enough. Uh what else so you so so we were talking about We talked about this on our program for a long time, because I think all three of us got obsessed with what we started calling Hitler pills.

Yes. Because we knew we were like, what's Trump taking? He's taking all these drugs. And then we uh we read read Blitzed for the show. And I think I read most of it. I don't know if I read the entire book, but uh you've probably already seen on YouTube. There's also Hosted by or not hosted by the main character in a really good YouTube video on Blitzed has Eric Larson, is that his name? Eric Larson is the author of uh I don't know, he's not in Blitz, the what's the I'm fucking this up. I made a I made a list for Billy. a couple years ago that I'm sure I can find. I think it's just called Hitler Pills and it's all the best videos on YouTube about about Hitler's drug use. Oh I want that. I Oh yeah let me see I can find it for you.

I um put notes uh As has been probably mentioned before with also with my childhood rent o obsession, my um basically now that I uh uh as I realize later, it was basically my sixth grade th thesis which uh uh uh l but not basically uh I spent the entire year doing a uh project researching uh children in the Holocaust because nobody thought uh no one was like maybe that's not a good idea for an eleven year so I mean uh there's there's the the immediate angle that comes to mind the tri But there's also the angle age. Yeah, but I mean there's also the angle of like kids in England. having to like leave their parents and be somewhere safer. There's a lot of of course there's the ship that we turned away.

Well God, with all the people on it. You know that story, right? No. Oh my god, there's a refugee. This is this is such a blight on America. It's one thing to say, well, you know, we want to stay out of the war. We already lost so many, blah, blah. You know, Churchill's begging us, please, you know, give me a hand. Um, no, but there was an entire ship of I think primarily Jews that had made it to the United States and we wouldn't let them in. People were talking through portholes to their family. They were not allowed to get off the boat and that boat turned right around and went back. Oh my god. Can you imagine that? Uh When you talk about the children, you're talking about the the the first one, the bad one.

The like the like you go into the left line, you go into the right line kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The the just a very broad overall of like we had to read Anne Frank and one of the like it was like p pick your the Bottom Frank cut all the sex out of it. You know that right the Why couldn't he just have let his kid be horny and have her period? Like come on. She's stepped all dignity, like god damn. Yeah to quote um Johnny Fairplay's friend on Survivor. She's dead, dude. Just let let her let her have had genitalia and desire. Yeah. I I think this is uh kind of oh and anyway, there's there's uh still in my parents' basement. I'll try to get my dad to have a picture of it. A one of those three um like Yeah I know exactly what you mean.

Sub Science Project. I knew exactly what you and what was it called? What did it what did it say across the top, Alex? The top was Children of the Holmes. Children of the Hogs. Yep title. Yep. And there were um it made one teacher cry. I got like they were like, oh my god, this is made like a got an A on it, but like um because also at that time, you know, I not Got all the sections, hypothesis, methods. There's a potato clock there for some reason. In conclusion. I did have a big yellow ones the sun. Like we had to explain how did this happen. And then I was like, like why did you have to do that? Yeah, I did I had a whole section of the first time. I just love it if that point if you if you put on one of those doctors like mirror things on your forehead and just pull out a giant set of calipers and yell yell next!

When I when I was a kid in uh college my sister-in-law um or sorry not uh when my sist now sister-in-law uh was in college. She came like home and my mom was like showing her the basement of our uh and like being like, Oh yeah. Oh how funny. Oh my god. And then um just, you know, it was like, oh yeah, here's yeah, here's Tommy's science project. He did I think he did like a potato thing, and here's Alex. Oh, that's her funny first impression of me. A sci basically a science project Full of children's corpses and a list of the chemicals they used. And I'm sorry if this is true. Did you watch that uh did you watch that one movie yet? The the the the you know the movie. You know the movie uh um the substance is so good.

I've oversold it so I'm not gonna sell it anymore. No, what's the movie I'm thinking of? There was a big uh big movie this year. I watched it three times. The family that lives at Auschwitz, it's um not uh not Rudolf Hess. I get the names confused. But it's the guy who ran Auschwitz and he's basically He's one of the he one of his many roles in addition to running Auschwitz. Oh, this is horrible. But no, he's like one of the Zyklon B guys. Because the Einstein's group in was way too expensive. You couldn't have these gas trucks, you're wasting a bunch of bullets. How do we do this more efficiently? You know, volume, volume, volume. And that's where the Zykline B came in. Yeah, enjoy your Krupp's coffee maker.

Enjoy your BMW. No, it's fine. It's Bavarian Motorworks. Perfect Nugan they call it. Mm-hmm. Hey challenge this week is to play some fucking video game. No, no. Oh wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I did not even get to share. See see see people who listen to the show? I uh interrupt back when it Merlin quotes. No, no, no, no. Because uh this no, no. We're just texting about this. I know. I know I w I want to show Hitler just was up uh being opportunistic and because it was the beginning of his great ascent, those two years where he really he they Hitler just was up and beginning of his great ascent, those two years where he really he they I was listening to the real quick and I was like, wait a second.

Wait a second. Well John pointed out that you know a lot of what's happened in the last hundred years we've been tearing down the the great man theory of history And I did want to get his pro pronounce right. I that was a bad correction and I f I'm I regret that that was taken out of context. What I was trying to say was it wasn't one man that did all of it. No, it's all I was trying to say. No at a speed. And then I just w uh wandered, this is where you would save me by being like, Alex, don't Don't start to think about what if Hitler was on binary. Knowing that I'm very sensitive about that, thank you for throwing me under the bus for that. No, I appreciate it. The thing is he his demands were very simple, and it's something that you know Chamberlain thought he'd be able to navigate it easily He wanted to annex the Sudaten land.

Not a big deal. Just let him have this little bit of Czechoslovakia. Nobody even wants it. And he wanted to be have people call him by the right pronouns. You know? Challenge. It's called uh it's actually when you do the translation is their struggle. How do you say that? How do you say that in German? I say that. MineComf is my struggle. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not gonna Google it though. Well I'm gonna hey uh Chatty um Chaddy G that's funny though I'm actually I'm I'm glad you that was funny. I I hadn't noticed that, but that is funny. It was really oh gosh. Um like a drive time like a morning DJ, like taking things people say and cutting them into funny things. Uh I make a man look foolish. A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look foolish.

I was sharing move. Make fan of your pictures, Mr. Waltz. My failings as a podcast listener. I'm like, you know what? No, I should enjoy. I could have. Yeah, yeah. Did you get my playlist? Did you see it? Did you see all the good stuff on it? I just texted it to you. Do not disturb on it because I am against it. It is nine, nine videos. Oh, look at the Pervitin. Wouldn't you love some Pervitin? I could get shit done if I had some pervertin. Oh man. Too bad, uh oh. Ooh, this is Norman Oler That's his name. That's the buzzed. That's the that's the guy who wrote the book buzzed that we read. That's oh And he's the guy who does it. I'm starting to think we need to do more Hitler on this program. I you uh Or at least in World War II, you know.

I well honestly, World War I know nothing about World War One. And in in this shame, it was a goddamn shame is what it was. Okay. Hold on. Oh Jesus. No, no. Like if you if if Dungeons and Dragons has uh uh too many strict rules and dice for you, try playing diplomacy Which is a game where everybody, all of the people who are playing, all of the let's be honest, boys who are playing diplomacy, uh represent a country in pre war World War One. Oh, yeah. Take a dirt road. This is just a board, and then the only pieces on it are armies and navies. I think everybody gets two armies and one navy except Russia gets one more of each and you draw lots for who's gonna be which country. Every round is you talking privately to the other boys about who you're gonna fuck over.

And you write orders for attack, the orders go into effect, and then you just keep doing that over and over until there's uh you know six sad boys in one order. So it was very important for me to play that. It was very important for me to play that. Why? That is the perfect description And I just want people to know the way that you described this. Oh, Merlin. Are you fucking with me? I thought no one. Oh my god, really? Did you play it as a kid? Uh no. No, I even as an adult. It was a very grown-up game when I was a kid. Well, that's the thing. As as an adult I was introduced to uh to RISC, and as as you know, I came from a very, you know, controversial office workspace. Uh, but I have to say, w an actual controversy was the amount of fighting people got into over playing diplomacy that like it was it was actually banned because Because people were screwing each other over and people there were real fights happening.

Like the like like no shit, like because we, you know, it was a shared office space. And so like it was That is wild. I didn't know people still played it. It's Yes, it's like like like I say, like Avalon Hill games or like those you know I'm talking about those really pretty boxed games that were they were very popular in the sixties and seventies. God, I love the covers of those games, those boxes. They would have them at department stores at like Sears and I would I didn't know what they were, but I would just go and look at all the box covers. Oh my god. Um but anyways, uh you know it's like looking at Atari art, you know? It's not really what the game looks like, but boy those covers are great Uh that's so cool.

Okay, well I wasn't very good. This is a good well no, this uh this is a a good segue, I think, because you once again il well you illustrated why uh d like that is exactly how the game goes. Um and uh you would be uh it would be way more fun to talk or play that game on a podcast rather than have your co host just put up their mic their phone and you know have uh and just listen to the Oh it's actually even more boring than that. Given the emotional tumble that will come out of that quote unquote game, you have it's it's incredible that it's really not fun to play. unless you're the kind of person who wins. It's horrible. You think Monopoly takes too long? Call the cops. This game just goes on for so long and it's Yeah.

But you know some of those guys were real assholes. Digital illie now and you can do it. Digital diploma. You won't I realize you would never engage in this because it's another inbox and it's usually multiple inboxes. Yes, you play. about my relationship to games. Yeah, which is why I wanted to like though just the way that you talk about games sometimes and then the way you talk about video games. Don't Jesus Christ No, I you have the floor, Merlando. No, no, I don't want the floor. No, no. if you're like me and you're from Ohio and a little slow, sometimes it takes forty or sixty times for you to really have something sink in. And and and this was a good week for that. I had I had a had a good good sinking in this week.

But I want to hear the challenge this week was to play um Bellatro plus. Yes. And do you want to tell people about what that game is? This is a Oh my gosh. There's a lot of controversy over what this is like technically called. But for our purposes Vilactro is a very good thing. What do you mean by the like the Everything isn't the internet because ever like the internet is a part of everything. Like with people you talk to. Like face to face, you have a lot of Bellatra discussions. Yes, whether or not it is a roguelike or whether or not it's a good idea. Um A lot of Bellatro plus discussions. You talk about some some Kakamami card game you play on a computer, and that's that and that's called people are getting mad.

They're fighting about it, huh? You can settle it with diplomacy. Diplomacy is twenty paces. And the thing is, well the thing is about Russia, and I did go and look I did go and look it up. And if if for people for the five people out there who actually look at stuff I do Um, I think it's inside of an alt tag, which I know is ableist, but let me find what I said about it. So I posted a photograph. See that photograph of Diplomacy Club? That's a real photo. That's me when I was 13. Oh okay. Never mind. Um let me go find this. I thought you looked at the internet I do I posted it on Ivory and I posted it on Blue Sky. And it's from when I was in military school in seventh grade. Here I'll just send you the photo because you can't be fucked to go look at it online.

You're busy arguing about cards. Let me click that. I'll paste it here. That's Diplomacy Club. I'll see if you can figure out which one is me. Look to the western skies. You know? Someone recently told me everyone deserves a chance to fight. Oh my god, you look so much like Billy. It's freaking me out. Do you see it? Oh my god. Yeah. Oh my god. Okay, so oh sorry here. On their own, but they don't do that anymore. So I'm sending you this, and if you look at the alt for that, it says in the game diplomacy on Russia starts with four supply centers, which is unique compared to the other powers that start with three. Because of this, Russia begins the game with four units. They got two armies, two fleets.

This setup makes Russia the only power to start with four units, giving it a slightly more complex. and strategically flexible position. But it's also more to defend, if you know what I mean. You know, Russia had ten no Soviet Union had ten time zones. So a negative land said. No, we should get a reverse. So you can tell which one's me. Yeah, a little bit, unless the guy the guy to so the other guy in the front is Brian Bondi, and he was at that time my roommate. Oh. Your roommate or your roommate? Talking about your roommate? Talking about roommate, you're talking about roommate. Yeah, that's me if Brian Bonnie is my roommate. Or am I ruined? Ruin ruin mate. Ruin. Keep your rhymes pure. Tip of the hat.

You know what? It's gonna be a whole separate episode as we're just gonna watch an entire Seth Rudetsky video together. That's the thing we're gonna do. Oh, what was the other thing I wanted to make you watch? Tote bag. I gotta write things down better. Children of the Holocaust. I believe that's it's it is also a title of an out-of-print book. Uh uh look. Tired of hearing about it. Challenge this week is to play Vellatro Plus, which is a game where you do card things. And um I saw a lot of buzz about it and it was described as what, a combination be I mean, um I've this is what I've heard. Is it's a combination between solitaire and um No. Okay. Well how do you how do you describe what it is?

It's between like solitaire and poker. It it has many similarities to poker. Not Uh if you go into it thinking it's life, you know. Are you in a secret society where you're not allowed to explain what this fucking game is? It's not solitaire. That's that's part of the explanation is it's not solitaire. First of all, uh Bellatra. For p other people out there who will never get it. get through the introduction that explains how the commands work. But no, that's neither here nor there. I mean I think it is if that's how Uh Bulatro or Balto as why do you keep saying plus? Oh, is that because it's what is called on iOS or all of Apple's Okay, yeah, sorry, I just found it just a thing I think I made up to frustrate you about your card game.

No, but I was one called it the wrong thing. It's actually called Apple T V Plus Bellatro Plus. Oh boy. The um proven familiar if you're familiar with poker at all, you're going to really like hello listeners. I'm just I'm not sure. What kind of poker was it? Five card draw? Five card draw? This Texas you hold 'em? Hmm. Poker in in general, because depending on the type poker in general, just the concept of poker. Uh threes, flushes, that kind of stuff. Yes. A flush is when there's five of the same uh suit. However, in a game like Bellatro, I don't even have one suit. You get these modifier coastal. That's kind of funny. Kind of like Irv. In in severance? It was a good kisser. I watched the entire thing in one day.

I rewatched the entire series in one day. I skipped I skipped two and three because I'm pretty familiar with those. No, because I just wanted to get to the end. Bellatro Plus talk about Severance, Bellatro Plus, it's a video game. It's it starts out like a game of poker, but then you get these modifier cards that are in the form of a joker. Which you know, like a joker from a playing card set. And it has different ways to make your hand better or your playing streak better. Like I ha what's up here? Um this uh Jolly Joker plus eight multiplier if the hand it if your hand contains a pair. So if I was like playing a pair of eights, it means uh I it would actually be sixteen that l and sorry, wait, no, sixteen.

then but b hold up, twenty-four, but then um let's say you have another Joker card as well. That is, oh, you've got a plus eight molts. Well you also have a times three molts if the cards Oh it's cumulative like Uno. It just go in and go and yes. I play old Uno I play classic Uno. I don't play this this crazy new Uno where you just write whatever you want on a card. You know, the Great Man Theory has been a very good thing. And so are do those do the cards you get so do you get the regular fifty-two cards plus are there literally just two jokers or are there like other funny cards like that? There are dozens, if not I think like hundreds, of of modifier joke both Joker cards. And uh also s what are called uh celestial cards, and uh these are just other th The the goal of the game is just to play uh to score enough in your round.

Oh boy. I'm I'm r I'm realizing now that if you don't that if if you haven't seen the tutorial What so wait, but have have you did you really not um I almost want to go to No no no no see I'm being a karmasuck I wan I want to support you about this but Yeah. It's a really it's a really it's not a good idea. Did you think it was complicated? Wait, you're sure it's a good game as in you like played it or you were like this is a bad uh um like a bad I mean it's a different conversation. I just Yeah, I couldn't get through the tutorial. It just kept going on. No, not interesting, and I'll explain why later if you care. But um but no I wanna hear more about what what how does this how does this what what In what way does this thrill you in a different way than other games that are like this?

Aaron Ross Powell Because th just the different ways they have modified and changed. Because it changes your strategy then, right? Yeah, every it's a uh the the fight between okay, is it a deck builder versus That's what I was gonna ask you and I thought it sounded stupid. I was gonna ask you if it's like a Pokemon or a Magic the Gathering. Okay. You don't like accumulate cards and like build a build a corn maze and a and an ancient scholar. Well that's the thing. Like if if you play You don't activate the pig, you floop the pig. No, I know the Car Wars episode of uh Adventure Time. Okay, a a a roguelike is a video game basically where i if you make progress and then you die and like you don't have any more lives left, you have to completely start over.

Yes, you you die um in you die in real life. But uh A lot of people don't like roguelikes because then it's like, oh, I lost all of my stuff. But when it's roguelike, the rogue is a kind of game, sort of saying. Balatro, you are playing uh uh uh basically ten l ten rounds of uh poker or um an they're calling it an ante. So you have uh like you you need to get through you need to win these ten hands In that sense, is it like regular, like Michael Clayton regular poker, where like if you have the high hand everybody gets out, you win the pot? Is is it straightforward like that? No, you're just you don't win like other cards or something, right? You d D you g you get more m like it it's because it's called an ante because like you're betting so you get the the money that you've had to ante to buy different cards in the game to make your cards more powerful.

So it's not like you're buying a mama. Yeah. So like suddenly your two your suddenly your two of hearts can appear out of nowhere, which is the thing that can happen in the game and becomes f uh it becomes more powerful than the ace of spades. And so you just keep on being able to uh make your like regular fifty two card deck into it looks cool. Is it kinda like the way like like Zach Zach's like chess game, it where it forces you to like you know this game so well, but now this forces you to think from a completely different angle. Correct. That's the uh and and the idea like the thing that makes it good for pe people like me who do enjoy roguelikes, like you do uh if you don't uh let's say you get five hands in and then suddenly you quote by losing means like your hands don't add up to a uh the round score.

So like you need uh five thousand chips, say, to win the hand. Oh, like like going out. Yeah, you and so then it's like oh you quote lost and so yeah you did lose like you are like out of the poker competition or or whatever. But by playing you have unlocked different modifier cards that you can use in the future. So if you just wanted to let's say a game like threes that never The car uh the I mean card slash plane piece has like never shall be. And like never never changes. Like if you want something like that, then it's uh Bolatro could just be like a fun little modifier. Yes. It does uh there there is a lot of reading and a lot of nerdy like poking around it it it adds like the poker nerdery to the um um just to the roguelike um i think poker guys generally wear sunglasses or like they'll wear a hat Have you seen that?

Oh like uh no like a you're talking about like a like a like a gambling visor. I'm talking about those douchebags on TV where people just sit in a circle in Las Vegas and and st and And try not to have an expression. Yeah, that was uh, oh my god, Joey Chestnut just played his flush man. And you're like, eh, that's exciting, and the river goes in his deck. The they they and they did. I'm glad you like it. I'm so glad you like games. It seems like it's an important part of your life, is is the game stuff. Yes, games and play are arguably the most important and most enjoyable part. Yeah, but I mean like okay, hang on. I w I've been hung out to dry quite enough. this week. Thank you very much. No, I wanted I games and play.

That's that that that's that's like me going, oh you know, like um machine guns and play. Like listen but those have don't have to be derate. I can have play. Well if you look at the challenge spreadsheet, you'll see my idea uh related to this, but don't look yet. You play competitively with friends? Uh You can play against machine. The yeah, the the short answer is uh no. The Alex answer is well yeah, if you have friends on Steam and Game Center or on whatever whatever platform you're playing on, you have different things. What do you play your Steam games on? I I don't play my Steam I don't have Steam gambling. I really want that game that lets you build a village. It's driving me crazy. I can't get it.

I'm still open to suggestions on Mac and Apple uh what's it called? Little Shantytown? What's what's what's the game I want to play? Little House um Phillips Boy. Village idiot, what's it called? It's called uh big top, big top joey. No, it's I know this. It's called Gil Glade. Glade Tiny Glade Tiny Glade. If there are apps like Tiny Glade that I can play in the Apple ecosystem, I'd love to know about it. That's all please and thank you. I bought it on Steam, but I can't play it on anything. Can uh did you try to play Bellatro on the television like you mentioned you Yeah, that's what I played it. That's what I started to play it on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got my got my got my PlayStation uh controller set up and everything.

And do you I need I need to watch this tutorial again because No, it's not this is not uh it's no it's not it's not a fruitful direction. I have an analogy that I'm gonna use that's gonna bring it all together and finally get me peace in death. Go on. Huh are we ding out after that? The w I will make one actual pitch to people. Right before I uh give us your fucking money. com. Yes. Ple give us your fucking money. com. That helps support the show and we need the money. Thank you. Happy New Year. Yes, yes, please. Um I uh you know it in the after show I do want to hear because I did throw you under the bus about but we talk about play And games all the time. But but you never think it's interesting and then you end up saying something really profound and interesting and then it becomes like a worst.

And then uh like like And so I'm just saying uh give us your fucking money. com. Probably gonna b bully Merlin into talking more about um games. Well now it's not as fun for me to end it the way I was going to end it. I thought it would be fun. Oh well oh so imagine somebody imagine somebody who grew up in the United States aware of the Wizard of Oz And maybe they'd even seen the Wizard of Oz, but they were never like into the Wizard of Oz. They couldn't really tell you like Exactly about the story beast, but they certainly never got into like how drunk were the munchkins and was that a person hanging? And did did the trapdoor hit her in the head and like all the lore and like, you know Is that a dead person?

You know, all the lore of Pink Floyd. They never got into any of that. They just they're aware of the Wizard of Oz, but for practical purposes, that poor bastard is just kind of not hasn't followed the world of Wizard of Oz. And then Wicked comes out and everybody goes, Oh my god, have you seen Wicked? And you're like, No, I haven't seen Wicked. And like, Well do you like musicals? And they go, Um, not really. Go, oh, but you like the Wizard of Oz You go, um, I mean, I'm aware of the Wizard of Oz. Will you wait? Have you not watched the Wizard of Oz and you're not in the You've got to see Wicked. Okay, well what is it? Oh It's a musical that's kind of takes a from as a jumping off point, takes the books, the L.

Frank Baum books, but especially the MGM movie, and like has this expanded thing and it's got lots of Easter eggs and it's got songs and you learn what's really going on. with the wicked witch. And it's like I was never that interested in this analogy. I was never that interested in the Wizard of Oz, and I'm definitely not interested in Wicked. I'm just not into video games. And so it's not fun to me. It's lost on me. It feels like work and I'd rather be doing almost anything than playing most video games. And I'm I'm I'm like I like I I try to say this and I realize I sound like like such a sour character. Because on the one hand, nobody's at all interested in what I do like about video games or what I have liked about video games, because that's all old news.

Nobody wants to hear what a man in his 50s did 45 years ago with a video game obception, buying books about how to get better at video games. The hours that I spent playing Atari 2600 arcade games in television baseball Like all of those. Nobody cares because like that's just your life. Why would we be interested in that? I want to talk about the thing I want to talk about. Play this video game where you learn about this game. Well, I don't I don't like games. Like if I had to say what game is the most game, in some ways it would be the one that broke me, which is sorry. I don't remember this a pop-matic game from my youth. It's one of those terrible games where you just punish children while they roll dice.

One of those horrible games. I just I'm just not I mean I I've liked games, I've had fun with games, I've done lots of game things. As far as the video game stuff, like I saw said, like, it's like, you know, I think people, not just my child, but I think almost all people refuse to believe that anything in the world happened before they were 15. And I understand their lack of interest in the things that had happened in the world before they were 15, and a lot of them really aren't germane to their life But don't tell me I don't fucking like video games because not you, but I'm just addressing the world here. But like don't tell me I have I've never had an interest in video games and have no interest in games now.

Sorry, take off the video part. I've liked lots of games. I'm like I s like when Billy and I just played so much Uno when you know when he was a kid. I told you I came up with my own rules for Candyland that completely changed the game. Like I I like elements of game stuff, but th it does not scratch an itch in my brain. And I don't really like puzzles Although New York Times calls them games, I would call them puzzles. But I I do play the New York Times games, three New York Times games every day, and I enjoy that, but like it's I don't derive a lot of pleasure about it. Here's the key. f to appreciate a game like this, it seems to me, it helps to love games as a thing because it's c like Zach It's kind of a meta-game in some ways, right?

It's a kind of a game about games. Like you have to if you like the idea of games, you're gonna especially love playing this. And I just I lack the gene for enjoying the most basic part of why people like games, I think. And I don't know why. And I I and I and I feel weird having to explain it or defend it, but like I I'm not necessarily not yelling at you, but it's just this is further reminder 'cause then what do people say? People you know what people are gonna say? Oh we didn't finish the tutorial fail. Yeah, that's true. That's absolutely true. Yeah, well Why don't you just go watch The Wizard of Oz eight or nine times and then watch it once with commentary, and then you'll finally be ready to watch Wicked, which I've decided you should watch.

That's how it feels to me. I would not do that to a person. Over? Do you do you want to end it on that? No, that was horrible. That wasn't horrible. Well, no, I don't want to sound like a sour puss. No, like but that's the thing. When you say that you don't uh I F first of all, whenever you say no one's interested about that, like you you might not be, but so many are are you kidding me? I am because whenever you're like oh no one's interested in that and like and then you talk about how something d uh why something doesn't scratch an itch in your brain. Be but by saying what doesn't, then you end up talking about what does that's when it gets super interesting. Well in that case, I will tickle um my idea for maybe the worst challenge we've ever had.

Well, uh here's two challenges on my channel. What he said about the uh tutorial, that is itself really interesting because is that uh element of the game. Well like I like I enjoyed starting to learn how to be Spider-Man. I didn't commit enough to like really learning how to do good Spider-Man stuff, but it was fun to swing around. I really I enjoyed um I will return to Shadow of the Colossus someday. As soon as I learn Billy doesn't know how to climb the cliff either. I'm in like minute three. It's one of the hardest games. I'm in like minute three of Shadow. Oh see, and again, because oh and that's why I'm not allowed to play Journey, because I haven't learned how to play other video games.

But there are people who probably really enjoy that stuff. There are probably other people who are out there fragging their Wolfensteins or whatever who are all mad and yelling, calling people homosexuals over headphones. They were all mad about like the game. And I was just taking too long. I want to start start killing minorities or whatever. Um and I want a double joker. Where's my double joker? I I flooped my pig, and now I can't get my ancient scholar out of my Wolfenstein. I gotta double down my werewolf with my assassin. People don't understand. Games. Games. I flew the pig You know what I'm talking about. Yes. Do you think you'd be the cool guy? You know what? I'm pretty sure you'd be the cool guy.

I I would have to drink the gross drink No. You're messing up that pop with weird taste. Just the way that the way that Finn says, I flooped the pig. And then of course the classic line from Bimo, I do not play such games, Jake Well, um, so um uh line 1049, uh you're only allowed to complain by singing. What if we made a rule that from now on you you're in a musical? And not you but one. And and you're only if you complain in life, you have to sing about it. And it has to be a good you've gotta really try. You can't just go, it took too long to get pot pie You'd have to be good. I don't have one off the dome, but I think it might go something like this. And my pot pies define No, that's not it.

I got nothing. Tip of the hat. And then 1050. Um There is kind of an SAT analogy thing. It's like everybody that I almost everybody I know has video games, right? They've got games that they like and games that they return to and they're interested in new games and right like and I'm just trying to figure out what is uh what is my version of video games. Because I think there's cute, funny answers to that. But Uh the idea for the challenge is what is Merlin's version of video games and what is the thing that Alex just can't crock that's like video games to Merlin? Is there anything do you know what I mean? I think that would be fun. Yeah. I think that'd be yeah, I think that would be really that would be That would be fun fun to think about.

The I'm but it's also it's almost like what I can't get is You're so playful and it it's uh it's not it's not that I uh I know what why you wouldn't. It feels like it should be a better fit, right? Uh Ye well, I suppose and that's why I think that it's interesting. Especially because you Say you don't like puzzles and then you get really, really into a puzzle. What are you talking about, really into a puzzle? What are you talking about? You're r you're pretty deep into the New York Times game. No, I have my own way of I have my own way of playing all the time. We talked about it we have we both have like our own house rules that we how we make make the game more fun for ourselves and that is why like belot that's why I say like with the with b God I keep calling it Balto.

I started saying it as a bit and now I can't stop. It is and so bolt bolt is different from Balto, right? Yes, but the dizzy. Ohto's like a real dog. He's a real cartoon dog. Yes. And he got upstaged by the real hero, which was Togo, and there is a Willem Dafoe. movie on Disney Plus. If anyone wants to know the real hero of Nome Alaska. Yeah, it was it was Togo all along. Thank you, Green Goblin. It was so But see, but isn't it kind of funny? Because you're saying something and you're doing it a very sweet way. You're saying, well, well, but you like blah. And like it's kind of like me trying to talk somebody into Steely Dan We were like, but you know, but you like the doobie brothers. Well, that's a bad example, but I don't either.

I was like, is that well no, but I mean it but like it just keep coming back to the I my my tortured Wizard of Oz metaphor. It's like, well, you'd appreciate it a lot more if you read the books from the early nineteen hundreds. But you know what's actually really good? Did you ever see the comics? Did okay, so do you know who Scott do you know Scotty wait, do you know Scotty Young is? No, uh wait. I mean it's a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so do you do you know about his Ozbooks? Yes. Oh yes. Well M that was, you know, I I've tried to explain this before. I know this sounds weird. There's like um Billy and Me books, there's you know, Billy and Mad books. There's some that are all of us books, but like they read Lord of the Rings, they read Harry Potter um when Billy was little.

You know, I'm Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I'm Next Stop Grand Central. Um and one of their one of theirs was the series, the Scotty Young Oz books are Wonderful. I'm looking at the not least because they he had the so if you ever seen those like a Marvel, especially it might be best known to some people for the Marvel variant covers, of which I have many. Where Scotty Young has drawn the the cover, you know, superheroes as babies. You'll know Scotty, SKO Scotty Young. Notes, notes, notes. But he does a series and it's based on the books. As in like, no, we can't go anywhere near touching something that feels like the MGM movie, but you know, it's got button bright, you know? Mum Papa always called me Button Bright because I was bright as a button.

They're really sweet books. And it's it's got that it's got that uh it's got that uh the pumpkin head guy, you know And the Dorothy's really cool. How old how old was uh how how how old should someone be to read this. Ten okay, ten to fourteen years is what Jeff Bezos might be. For a smart kid Bezos might be right, but I would say you you depending on the kid, they could be a little younger. Are you watching the Dune show by any chance? No. Okay. Um the other thing he did that's definitely not for babies is called I Hate Fairyland. And if you like that style and you want to sit look it out, check out I I Hate Fairyland in a similar vein. Pull that up. Look at that cover. Oh bad good reads, not oh oh this this is giving me self-harm uh squad vibes.

Look at the I the that's really funny. Oh man. I had a I have a I had a title for for this week's rectifs that I didn't even bother putting in, but it's so good. Um what was the teaser? Yeah, well have you ever seen the RCA logo? The famous RCA logo. The like eighties, well I don't even know uh was it the confidence Yeah, yeah. Oh yep. I see now I'm now I am looking at it and I did indeed say it with way too much confidence. I see the M M I used to have on it, like right on it. So there's a dog and he's like turning his head as he looks into the gramophone. And there's a phrase uh that they used to just put like right on there. They would say his master's voice. And so my idea for this week's episode was his primary's voice.

Sorry. I didn't I didn't mean to an and secondary you raw transcript