120. Papa Normative

AlexThis is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, listen with empathy.

Hello? Hello. Look, I'm Max. I don't know why I said look, you can't see.

Merlinhere I heard it in the last one

Alexoh yeah

Merlinhe just kind of does that doesn't he

Alexyeah and I'm you

Merlinit's like swinging a mallet around the office or a sword like wielding a sword just like lazy figure eights with a long sword

Alexthat's not usually when you ding the bell I just like my Maxim Merlin impression

Merlinwho received my trick today how's your now why did you I don't understand I try to communicate with you and what feels like a straightforward way and then you utterly bewilder me i expressed a legitimate honest interest in hearing about your scoot scoot yeah and you you made a face that you called a komoji at me no so first of all that shows up as like an e-ching series of lines on my non-compliant computer and you sent another komoji is that him in the midst of the coming

is the face man is the face man making calm i i would assume he looks confused like he's trying decide should i let it go let it go can't hold it back anymore well it's called the woozy face

Alexaccording to emoji pedia which is never wrong i just i just saw it and i'm like that's not what

Merlinthis is uh-huh no no well here's what here's what i said i said also alex please be prepared to discuss your new scoot scoot if you want and then you sent me the komoji okay okay hold on

Alexhold on hold up uh i'm here i'm here all morning uh you said i wish my sleep apps let me do more

Merlincustom emoji oh you were responding to an earlier remark yes and then i got off track you know how i tell stories in in message form yeah i do i really really do okay sorry sorry okay so what that would be is in our sleep app of choice you would be able to say my sleep was affected by cum

Alexyeah and you'd be able to have a face for that like every teenage boy is like a cum face the next morning he's like oh i i you know what here are the things that affected my sleep i bet this

Merlinis one of them do you call it self-soothing or self-care that's big just so you know when you have a baby a few things are real important this is short i promise but when you have a baby there's certain kinds of things that are a real complicated thistle and one of them is that like at a certain point well first of all if you're like us you do what's called attachment parenting and you utterly dote over every aspect of your child's life for a very, very long time. But you get to these little gateways. And one of them is the child has to learn how to self-soothe. Are you familiar with

Alexthat term? Because it sounds like masturbation. Like sucking a thumb type situation? It could be

Merlinsucking a thumb, but it could be like you have to go through this process where it's nested like so many things in a child's life. A child will have to go through some stress, pain, discomfort, and fear in order to kind of cross the Rubicon and get to where they can take care of their own shit. And a basic example of that is, okay, the extreme example is cry it out, where the first nights the kid is by themselves, you just let them cry. You know, it's controversial. But you have to learn to self-soothe, and then that becomes a skill that you can use in life, is what I'm saying.

AlexUh-huh.

MerlinSo I'm saying if you wanted to put something in OmniFocus that indicated you were setting aside some time to masturbate, I would suggest either self-soothing or self-care. Or you could, you know what you can do, you could call it a spa day.

Brown sauce. Brown sauce. Reading about brown sauce.

AlexBrown sauce.

MerlinYeah, I'm reading about Daddy's Brown Sauce, and I have a lot of questions. Did you learn about Daddy's Brown Sauce from the internet?

AlexNo, no, I didn't.

MerlinAre you not on the internet anymore? What's happening?

AlexI don't know. I just don't go on that much.

MerlinDaddy's Brown Sauce, which there's so much to unpack with Daddy's Brown Sauce.

AlexI have a feeling this is going to be like sausage night, where I have a vague idea, but I've never experienced it myself.

MerlinI see your icon, Alex. You're in the dock.

AlexI'm always in the dock.

MerlinYou're very rarely in the doc.

AlexWell, well, well.

MerlinDo you understand I spend up to eight minutes creating a doc every week?

AlexI do. I do. And sometimes it's early and I get all excited.

MerlinYeah. You see the top line there? Daddy's brown sauce.

AlexI did.

MerlinWhat do you notice? What do you notice about daddy's brown sauce?

AlexThat it is in quotations.

MerlinAnd it is not.

AlexIt is not.

MerlinPossessive.

AlexThank you. That's a word that I remember from diagramming sentences.

MerlinDaddy's brown sauce. Daddy's brown sauce lacks Is a plural I guess Is it brown sauce for daddies?

AlexI don't know

MerlinThat sounds like a got it by voices song It doesn't have a What's it called? An apostrophe It doesn't have an apostrophe Daddy's brown sauce It's daddy's brand brown sauce Now that Is that like self-care? Is that something you would put Into your British OmniFocus To let people know You're going to be making brown sauce?

AlexI wonder

MerlinWorking on your puzzle? There comes daddy Daddy's still working on his puzzle. He's going to want to get that bag and bring it down the ladder. He's got to shoot it through the slingshot and working on his puzzle. Really falling behind. Going to need to pick it up.

AlexOkay. All right. Real-time follow-up. Merlin, have you seen the photograph of the bottle of Daddy's Brown Sauce? I have. That is a thumbs up.

MerlinThis is not a complaint. Daddy's Brown Sauce, the logotype, as we call it in the business, This appears to be a thumbs up.

AlexYes.

MerlinOkay. And what does it say? Full of flavor with a U. It's daddy's daddy. Oh, it's that. Hang on. Daddy's favorite. Daddy has a favorite.

That's my favorite brown sauce. 70% extra free.

AlexI have to assume that this is a self-soothing butt situation.

MerlinYou think a full thumb, a man's thumb, daddy's thumb?

AlexIf it is, see, that's the problem. Because it's not, if it was possessive, then I would be like, yes, I get, I think that would be the most effective finger to use on yourself to put the brown sauce in and out.

MerlinThat's, that's super smart. Now, here's another thing. And I'm looking at this on my computer here in my office. From, from the middle distance, I think the registered trademark dingus could be confused for an apostrophe indicating. So it's not between the E and the S. It's after the S. It's daddy's favorite. It's the favorite of daddy's.

AlexYeah, exactly. Oh, I see. I see. Yes. I mean, then it.

MerlinBut it's not an apostrophe. Now, do they have apostrophes in England? I think they do. They certainly got a fable right.

AlexCheck with.

MerlinOh, no. Oh, no.

AlexOh, what's happening?

MerlinMax is in the middle of a situation. Where is he? Is he in California?

AlexHe is in California. during one of the semi-annual Cards Against Humanity writers retreats. Oh, God.

MerlinOh, it's one of their fart-a-thons?

AlexI would say that I wouldn't... It's not that I'm happy that they're not doing their retreat in the office.

MerlinNo, it's not that. No, not that at all.

AlexBut it sure does smell better in some rooms.

MerlinNo, I don't think you need to feel bad about that. That's a form of self-care.

AlexIt is. I self-soothe myself by not taking in my bot's literal farts.

MerlinDo they have different aspects to them? I mean, is there like a flavor profile for the different co-founders? Do they make like a sort of a cumulative goulash or can you detect the different founders?

AlexI definitely cannot detect the different founders. But if I walk into a room, I definitely know like, yes.

MerlinThe founder's been in there. I know who's been here.

AlexIt was like walking into my brother's room at home. It's like, yep. Okay.

MerlinYeah, sure, sure, sure, sure.

AlexThere was a situation here.

MerlinWell, it's Anna Karenina all over again. I think everybody farts in a different way. I can detect who in my house dropped the bomb. And they of me.

Speaker AOh, interesting.

MerlinYeah, I mean, is it doggy? Is it doggy? Is it musky? Does it have a dark component? Does it have bright acid kind of mouth feel to it?

AlexMm-hmm.

MerlinYou can get a daddy's that has a handle. Did you see that? This has to be lube.

AlexThis has to be lube. This bit is done. There's no way.

MerlinOkay. So if you put daddy's favorite on your OmniFocus.

AlexSo molasses.

MerlinYou're saying I need some help with my transit.

AlexMalt vinegar. Uh-huh. Dates and spices. These are all things that I'm led to understand. Suitable for vegetarians. Like that's code for leather daddy.

MerlinThat's about eating ass. Yeah.

Speaker ANow, is that considered vegan, Alex? Does it depend on what the person's been eating? I think about this all the time.

AlexYou don't understand.

MerlinIs it a form of like cannibalism?

AlexNo, there are so many women I know who are vegans that also engage in an activity where I'm genuinely like, does this count? I don't know.

MerlinAll the different linguses, right? All the different linguses.

AlexRight, because that, especially with the penis part, that could be used for something else. So you're taking it away from the animal.

MerlinThey didn't know tofu. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel you. I feel you because you've got an analingus. You've got a cunnilingus. You've got a dinguslingus.

Speaker AIs it called dingalingus?

MerlinIt should be. Who's the genius that came up with fellatio? Why don't they call it dingalingus? Hi.

Speaker AOkay. Oh, boy.

Maxi'm back i'm back hey buddy uh there was a very upsetting scene at my hotel there was lots of like yelling and stuff last night and i just went to sleep because i thought it was it was people i don't know i'd done it sounded like maybe there were people like partying or something i couldn't tell but it then this morning there was like very upsetting very about

maybe 15 minutes ago there was like very upsetting screaming was there thumping thumping and this woman was yelling help me and now oh jesus no really oh god yeah and then and then and like slamming doors and this woman was yelling help me and now there's like a bunch of um hotel staff very concerned uh standing outside this room it's like right across the hall from me oh my god oh yeah it's very dramatic it's very dramatic that's not that's not that funny no no it's not even a little no i'm sorry it's no ding-a-lingus but i um ding-a-lingus see here's the thing about

daddy's brown sauce yes i was i was what did this happen like this happened like as soon as the as soon as you guys called me and then i was standing there trying to figure out if i what i should do if I should call the hotel or the police or whatever, but I guess it's already under control.

MerlinYeah.

AlexThere was a better person out there who called the police.

MerlinI'm sorry, Max. That sounds horrible. Do you want us to catch up on brown sauce? Yeah, I don't want to call the police. No, call the hotel police. The brown sauce. So yeah, daddy's got a brown sauce. I don't think that obviates our line of business in daddy sauce.

AlexNo, not at all.

MerlinMaybe we could partner with them. That could be something where we develop a daddy synergy.

AlexExactly. Because there are many different kinds of daddies. There's so many.

MerlinThank you. Thank you.

AlexThere's so many different kinds of daddies.

Don't be Papa Normative.

AlexLike, that's never good.

MaxI used to love that band. Papa Normative. That's my least favorite Smurf.

Speaker ADo you have any skirts that fit you? where's the rest of your top make me my dinner get back in the kitchen

Maxi think justin mcelroy is my co-pilot i have some big uh i have a lot of sausage night updates oh sausage night so yes including i think i have some uh i think i have some um gordon ramsay style uh what i have i have some uh gordon ramsay style critiques for our audience of sausage night makers at home our home chefs and uh if you really want to make that restaurant quality sausage night

yeah and merlin i think i have a little tip to spice up your sausage night that you may not even know about yet yeah i'm listening absolutely okay number one uh everyone on our uh on the dubai friday discord channel has been in the food channel posting pictures of their sausage nights over the last couple of weeks oh nice can we explain what sausage night is in case maybe This is people's first episode. Feel like we've covered it for two weeks.

AlexPlease just say it's not penises. It's not penises. Don't tweet at me. It's not penises.

MerlinDoesn't mean you're a sausage daddy. That's a legitimate kind of daddy.

AlexYeah, it's a different thing.

MerlinDon't be popping normative. It's a kind of dingalingus. It's a kind of dingalingus if you enjoy a sausage. It's not like eating ass.

AlexAll right.

MerlinGet some cabbage on there.

AlexSo the sausage pics.

MaxSo, okay, yeah. So basically people have been posting photos of their sausage night. And I have noticed that everybody is cooking their sausage night. It's got Anthony Wiener in trouble. Everybody is cooking their sausage night in a nonstick pan.

AlexOh, God. This is a fight in our office, too. Okay, go on.

MaxIt's a big argument in our office because everyone was making sausage night in the nonstick pan in the office, too. Now, Merlin, what kind of pan do you use when you make a sausage night?

MerlinLike I'm going to say now. Keep me out of this.

MaxYou use a nonstick pan?

MerlinI'm the fucking John the Baptist of this shit, man. Tony's mom is the Jesus, but I'm the one bringing the motherfucking rockets in Matthew. So keep me out of it.

AlexOh, okay. Well, can you share what she used?

MerlinI use a nonstick, a ceramic nonstick pan.

Speaker AYes. Well, okay. If I make it in the cast iron pan, I got to clean it. And it's hard. I got to take out the chain mail and grind it.

MerlinI don't want to grind my iron.

MaxSo there is another way other than cast iron or nonstick, which is a stainless steel pan, which is, in my opinion, after much consideration, the best pan to make a sausage night in.

MerlinUh-huh. Okay.

MaxStainless steel pan. Now, do you know about a pan sauce?

MerlinIs it like a brown sauce?

MaxIt's like a daddy's brown sauce.

MerlinOkay. A pan sauce, is that where you're going to develop the oozings into some kind of a subsequent sauce, like an ajou type situation?

MaxExactly.

MerlinIt's probably not exactly, because I'm just fucking guessing. But you develop a pan sauce.

MaxThat's exactly what it is. So basically what you want is the... Flavored town. When you cook the sausage and the onions, you want a little layer of burnt crispies to stick to the bottom of the pan. And you really only get that on a stainless steel pan. Then when you hit it with the soy sauce and the balsamic and the water from the cabbage, it all comes up. It all gets mixed into the water. And that's where you get that really thick, delicious gravy that goes on the sausage.

MerlinRich pan gravy. that sounds so good i fucking love gravy we buy gravy from a store like monsters

Maxi'm going to tell you my other sausage night hack this one is much more easily attainable for you i think do you have uh the the wonderful oil known as sesame oil i think my wife has some on the top

Merlinshelf that we don't use i'm gonna say maybe but tell me about tell me about sesame oil it's magic

Maxyou got to get new sesame oil it goes it goes first of all it needs to be refrigerated and Second of all, it does go rancid, so you've got to get a new one. Oh.

MerlinOkay. Very, very good to know. Going to go ahead and just not use the one on the top shelf.

MaxThat's excellent. Throw that right in the garbage. In the bin, yeah. You're going to get a new sesame oil when you go to the store. The next time you make a sausage night, put a couple drops of sesame oil on your sausage night while it's in your bowl. Oh. Maybe don't do it in the pan in case you don't like it.

MerlinHuh. Like the way my wife adds yeast to popcorn. You do it as an aftermarket sauce. Oh, man.

MaxYes. Okay. It will bring it to life, man. It's a whole new sausage night experience. Just a couple drops of that sesame oil. It's very pungent and it goes bad. It does not last for very long. So throw your sesame oil.

MerlinIt's a real Fanta Siècola kind of ride. Yeah, like enjoy it while you can. Last days of Rome. That's a good idea. That's good. Okay, that's a good note. I will develop some flavors with sesame oil.

AlexOh, God. No.

MerlinNow I'm looking at gravy.

Alexlook at that look at that gravy you know what i've just been taking this time looking at the cold french fries and the french fry what would you call that a line graph oh right in the thing

Merlinthat was sent yeah i need to look at that was sent uh wait now max did you also have a critique of

Maxthe of the discourse yes discord yes oh it's just that i i really think that people should own a stainless steel pan that's like your your basic pan that you should be cooking like most things in and non-stick does not really have a place in most cooking applications like i i mean we have i have some non-stick pans but i pretty much only ever use them for you think that's true for beginners too yes yeah yeah absolutely you're gonna get better food your food is gonna taste better and be easier to deal with in a stainless steel pan hot take whoof and it's and it's easy

to clean. It is not hard to clean a stainless steel pan. Everything is easy. It's not a big deal.

MerlinThat's the source of the discordier's problem. They're using the wrong pan.

MaxI think you're going to get crispier sausage, better texture overall. You're going to be able to make a pan sauce. Everything is going to cook correctly if you just use the stainless steel pan. That's true for almost everything. Really, a nonstick pan is... I do cook eggs in it, but that's about the only thing where it's necessary.

Merlinas an extension of our various chocolate molten mountains microwaving i uh rockets red glare i got something called just crack an egg you literally just i learned about it on msnbc i'm not gonna lie you crack an egg crack a fucking egg and you put it into the into the dingus and you stir it up and then you microwave it and it makes wait but you must have you must do more than crack an egg oh if you literally just crack an egg without eating it like it's good you dodged a bullet. You'd get real sick if you didn't cook it. So yeah, I think you just crack an egg plus

three steps and then you whip it up and it's a very unpleasant little scramble, but it's very quick to make. It's got ham chunks. Do you have a picture of this? Well, I didn't photograph mine,

Maxbut if you watch MSNBC... Wait, is this the thing that extrudes the egg into a tube in a very upsetting way? No, but I want to know more about that. Hang on, let me look at this thing. Extruded.

MerlinThere's also a product called Better Than Gravy. Organic Better Than Gravy. Gravy mixed for chicken.

MaxBetter than gravy.

MerlinHow could anything be better than gravy just at like an epistemological level? But this is a packet.

MaxYou know what? Honestly, this is probably a future challenge. Look up the Rolly Egg...

MerlinIt's going to be a Kickstarter. It sounds like a Kickstarter. Egg extruder?

MaxRolly Egg Master. Spell that again. Look up the Rolly Egg Master.

MerlinRolly Egg Master. this is what i make my subs refer to me as when i wear my sex jeans i am the rollie egg master this is no smalt but interesting oh oh it's smalty it's a little

Maxsmalty is it iot no no it's iot rollie hands-free if you're looking at the youtube video go to about

Merlintwo minutes and 20 seconds to see the egg on amazon it's rollie hands-free automatic electric vertical nonstick easy quick egg cooker. It's $29.95. It's got a red light

Maxand a green light. Here, let me put this in the dingus. Watch this video at about 2 minutes and 20 seconds in.

MerlinOh god. Oh god, the result is very upsetting.

AlexOh no.

MerlinOh no, that's not... See, now we're back to the sex thing.

AlexYeah, someone has put something in there at some point.

Merlinit looks like a fleshlight a little bit

Alexnot a little bit

Merlinit looks kind of like a fleshlight you know somebody's come in the Raleigh

Alexlike hard

Merlinbut very difficult to clean

Maxdoesn't that sound like a that's a kind of a doctor that's a kind of a doctor philism don't come in my Raleigh and tell me it's me

Merlindon't come in my Raleigh and call it an omelet that's a Judge Judy that's a Judge Judy

Maxlisten guys I really think that we could we could get into the Raleigh lifestyle. Alex, what if we just have these on our desks? You feel a little peckish? You fire up a Raleigh.

MerlinOr, or if you just need a minute of self care, you just plug it in. Fuck it.

AlexStart self soothing.

MerlinI'm taking a, I'm taking a call. Self soothing. Cause that's the sound I make when I Raleigh.

MaxAre you guys watching the one where the sausage is inside of it?

MerlinOh, I wasn't going to play it. Should I play it?

MaxOh, you got to see it extrude. Okay.

MerlinIt does take longer than it. Luxury. I think that's Western England, I want to say. Sounds like Anthony Johnston.

AlexIt does. Oh, God.

Here's the weird bit.

MerlinIt starts to pop up. Touch the pan. It pops up. Kiss the pan. The pan kisses you.

Speaker AOh, no.

MerlinYeah, ready to rolly. Bob's your uncle.

Speaker Aoh no oh no no oh

Merlinshould come with a 9-1-1 call fuck this we gotta we gotta do this

Speaker Aa little bit more runny oh oh god of course and there you go that's how i've got it so raising almost like a hard yolk in that one um but yeah that's your breakfast okay that's your breakfast that's your breakfast well i'm gonna jump forward and now he's got a template and he's

Merlincutting go to 450 holy shit oh no it comes with it comes with templates oh it comes with templates do you want to know about the templates?

Use your thing.

AlexOh, no. Oh! Yeah, this is how I make cat food. Okay.

MaxYou can make it inside of a tortilla? This thing is a miracle. Yeah, you're right.

MerlinI feel like a fucking punk the way I'm eating breakfast. Oh, look at the way he puts it in there. It's so loving. Really get it in there. Put your stuff in the middle.

Speaker AOh, God, it's so bad. Oh, my God. Look at it emerge. It emerged early.

Oh, it's just all over the place. Oh, God. Oh, God. I can't. It's so upsetting.

MaxOh, it's like a wet turd. And it just has a liquid interior.

AlexEw. All right. Back to the tab with the good French fries. Oh, my God.

MaxIs this a good episode? What if we just watch egg product videos on YouTube?

AlexEw. Oh, God. Do you ever...

MaxAs seen on TV, egg gizmos tested. Okay. I searched for egg Kickstarter.

Merlinegg kickstarter yeah the thinking egg the zen egg the future egg someone raised over a hundred thousand dollars to make a wooden egg on kickstarter boy it's a shame what's happening

Maxto journalism get yours now um now no call now zen egg there's the zen egg the future egg the

Merlinthinking egg uh-huh is there a self-care egg that would that would be probably gwyneth paltrow

AlexThis is amazing. It's a useful tool to help us. Oh, God. Oh, God. I'm hiccuping. I'm so upset. I'm on Zen Egg.

MerlinAre you on Zen Egg?

AlexYes.

MerlinIt's like an Inception egg.

AlexOh, boy.

MerlinIt's a totem.

AlexOh, my God.

MerlinIt is. It's a balancing wooden totem. They made an Inception egg.

AlexYep. There's an Inception egg. $164,000, $230,000 on Indiegogo. Indiegogo, in addition to, oh, I can't see how much they raised on Kickstarter, but interesting.

MerlinI think it competes with the Thinking Egg, a useful tool to help remind us to slow the hell down.

AlexOh, these are different products.

MerlinYou got a Zen Egg and a Thinking Egg. None of these are things that I can eat unless I'm super hungry. Thinking Egg, Zen Egg, Future Egg. What's the Future Egg? Future Egg is a comic. Okay. Okay.

AlexOkay

MerlinThinking eggs and egg Those are the preeminent eggs of Kickstarter

AlexMan

MerlinThis is making me hungry

AlexI honestly could really go for some egg whites right now Because I'm that person now

MerlinOh my daughter likes an egg white

AlexYeah it's not as slurpy as the rest I don't want that emerging egg for my rollies

MerlinDoes it make you hungry for an excitable dachshund? you can see the little pinkness coming out the top it's a little bit overloaded oh no it's still running oh no no i'm a roll no rolly egg master vertical grill now he's got sausage meats oh no oh no i'm at 613 613 613 yep oh no i saw it i saw it oh no and he puts a stick into the dingus yep oh he skewers the raleigh meat oh and now steam's coming out is 613 the

Maxcode that Dr. Don calls into the health department when he sees a device that extrudes a cooked egg through a pool of uncooked egg, and then you just eat it. We've got a 613 on our hands. The Monsters, Inc. safety team

Alexcomes out. Oh, God.

MerlinSo in the infographic on Amazon, it says, number one, spray. Number two, crack. And then finally, watch it rise when ready. Daddy's ready for brown sauce. Eat this.

Speaker AEat me. It's been a big week. Oh, man.

AlexYou guys ready to start? Let's start the show. Hey. News items. There seem to be a lot of things. Well, Max, are you prepared? You're in California. We're recording this in three different places, like a real podcast.

MaxOh, I didn't do any work. I didn't do any work. I listen to people.

AlexOh, okay.

MaxThere's a doc?

MerlinWe covered Daddy's brown sauce. It's not possessive. It's a pan sauce. He's pan sauce curious. Daddy's non-binary sauce. Hi, I'm Robert Daddy's.

MaxSaturday is Daddy's Day.

MerlinLeave a long skid mark of brown. That's your sauce for full breakfast.

MaxOh, boy. Look at this. I found the doc. Oh, my God.

Speaker AIt's your icon. Wow. Hello.

MaxIt says, oh, look at that. Next bullet point. New survivor season.

MerlinYep. We got Alex's Scoot Scoot and then your beef with Amazon delivery robots.

MaxThe new Survivor season, it premieres tonight. It does indeed. Have you guys looked into the new season at all? Do you know anything about it?

MerlinMy dossier is not done.

AlexYeah, only 24-7. Oh, I got a dossier. I've got quite the dossier.

MaxI can tell you my draft. My draft occurred and I have my team.

MerlinThat feels like an after show.

AlexThat's an after show.

MerlinNo, tell us. Go ahead. I just said, I don't want it to be spoiled. I like to go into it not knowing anything and making my own apprehensions.

MaxOh, I see.

MerlinShould I take my earphones off?

MaxNo, no. There's no spoilers. Let's see. So my draft is Keith, Victoria, and Julie.

MerlinOh, my God.

MaxOh, my God.

AlexOh, my God.

MerlinSweet Maui onion. I feel like I just said mouth words about this.

AlexI'm just kind of turning it off.

MaxWait, how is the team that I drafted a spoiler for the show?

MerlinBecause you spent literally hours determining who you think will win before a frame has aired.

MaxBut that's like people who bet on fantasy sports and then you're like, oh, I'm betting on the Green Bay Packers. And you're like, don't spoil the NFL for me.

MerlinYeah.

MaxThey don't know.

MerlinOkay, so you got Don and who else?

MaxI have Keith, Victoria, and Julie.

MerlinOh, Julie. She's a grown girl. Are those all bikinis?

MaxJulie I took because she does escape rooms. And I think that she'll probably know how to do a sliding puzzle.

Speaker AOkay.

MerlinAre there sliding puzzles involved in escape rooms, Max? Could be. Could be. You don't know. You don't know if it's a puzzle. You've got to look in the cabinet. Is that how it works?

MaxExactly. Exactly. You don't even know where the puzzle begins or ends.

MerlinTry key. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. I'm going to pull for Don and Julie. Are those bikinis or one pieces mostly?

AlexOh, no. Aubrey. Aubrey. We're Aubrey.

MerlinAubrey.

AlexAll the way Aubrey.

MaxMm-hmm. I didn't get, Aubrey was my first choice draft pick. I didn't get her. Someone else snatched her up before I could get her. I got Aubrey. Oh, God. Let's see. I don't think I have any bikinis. Let's see. Oh, Victoria might. Let me look at her cast photo here. Victoria might. No, she does. Yes, she does.

AlexAll right. Now that we're done objectifying the young women of Survivor, can I tell you about my scoot scoot? Scoot scoot. Yes. Yes. Okay.

MerlinSo tell the whole saga. You got an early scoot scoot.

AlexOh, my God. This was a thing. Last year, I went to the Worldwide Developers Conference in San Jose, and that's the big Apple nerd convention now.

Speaker AWhere they had all the scoot-scoots on the street.

AlexThey had all of these rentable scooters literally everywhere. You would trip on them if you just walked outside your hotel. And you could rent them for like a dollar a mile. It was insane. Isn't it crazy?

MerlinIt's like 15 cents to unlock it, and then you pay very minimally.

AlexYeah, I still have, I put like $5 in the little app that you use to scan, like you scan the QR code on the scooter and then you scoot, scoot away. I still have credit and use them like all day, every day to get around San Jose because the public transit's terrible and everybody's using Lyfts and Ubers to get around for the convention. uh and so the day after wwdc i i went and tried to order the me it's called the me zhao scooter

i believe and okay it was not released in the u.s yet but you could do pre-orders and did i pre-order the heck out of it and expected delivery was april but i got a surprise treat and my uh me zhao scooter is has arrived yay how do you how do you just real quick how do you spell that uh m i if i had me zero z scooter m-i-z-z-o-u uh m i honestly just put m i electric scooter

Merlinand they make the they make the birds yes if you have used a bird yes m-i-z-z-o-u bird scooter Okay. It's. So it's rugged. It's ruggedized.

AlexAnd it came with snow tires.

MerlinSnow tires. The devil you say.

AlexI did not select snow tires.

MaxSo just so I understand. This is your own. You got like a bird scooter, but it's your own personal one.

AlexMm-hmm.

MaxMm-hmm. So instead of just getting on one wherever you want and leaving it wherever you want, it's your own personal property and you have to like keep it nice.

AlexThere aren't any in Chicago. it doesn't seem like there's going to be any in Chicago for the foreseeable future and everyone makes fun of me when I'm on my little Segway scoot scoot going to and from work and also I got tired of falling down so now I have this it's great so you hold this this is a more conventional

Merlinrazor ish stand-up handles scooter with two smaller wheels rather than when everybody sees me and by the way i did recently get made fun of by teens um but it's uh they call that a hoverboard this

Alexis more of a motorized scooter a la bird yeah it it's like what an adult would think is a respectable razor scooter but it's it's not it still looks so stupid but it's so so fun and you don't have like i've ridden the little segue mini pro plus on many sidewalks and it's totally

Maxfine. There's another one of these sitting in the office and it like doesn't turn on.

AlexOh, that's that's yes. Yep. Maybe it's sin.

MerlinAlso, just to be clear, I fucked up. Mizzou is the short name for Missouri University where they have scooters. So I think I got the name brand wrong. Merlin regrets the error.

AlexI also spelled it wrong. It's M-I X-I-A-O-M-I. But I guess in

Merlinthe US it's just. Oh, like Shamai. Like the dim sum. Yes.

AlexYeah, sure. I'm saying yes, but I don't really know.

MerlinMe, me, show my. Yes. Yes. Oh, boy, that looks rugged. That's way better than the University of Missouri.

MaxWhy is there one of these scooters like already in the graveyard? Like it's just sitting in the office against the wall.

AlexIf you notice, it's again, it's next to many an electric skateboard that nobody uses. However, people use the it's basically the shitty electric scooter that was like 50 bucks. on Amazon. Oh, man. Yeah, so now...

Speaker AThis goes 15 miles per hour? Shit, dog.

AlexYep, it does. Yeah, yeah, it does. Whoa. The other one goes five miles an hour. It's very sad. This one... This is nice. It's real good.

MerlinWell, five miles an hour, did you never get out of beginner mode?

AlexNo, no, no, no, no. I'm sorry. This is the $50 Amazon... It's like a Razer brand scooter.

MerlinOh, sorry, sorry. You're not talking about your Segway.

AlexNo, no, no, no. That thing goes upsettingly fast.

MerlinYeah, it goes like 10.

AlexThis guy, you really zoom on it. Like, oh, man, I'm excited. So this is the new thing that people can make fun of me for. But, you know, it sparks the joy.

MerlinYou be you. I think it's good. I've only been made fun of by teens that I heard once. And I'm in the market for another one. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm keeping my ear to the ground because I have some issues with mine. but I want to wait to hear if there's going to be some new big deal. I don't want to blow a ton of money on something that gets obviated.

AlexThe talkie one's coming.

MerlinNow see, I was so confused for so long because you have one that's, I thought we had the same one but we absolutely don't. You have the really cute one that looks like WALL-E. Yes. That you can put a phone on, right?

AlexYou cannot put a phone on it. No, no, no. That was another Indiegogo project. Why is Segway doing, also why does anybody use Indiegogo? but uh damn it what's it called the drift they're probably doing a pebble they're doing a pebble

Merlinwhere it's like oh yeah check it out crowdfund this thing which actually means pre-order this thing yeah i'll bet i hope segway gets their shit straight because like they feel a little deluded to me right now like they they're they're very into the turn this i think that was a brown sauce so they got to turn it into a go-kart kit and stuff but like i'm at 200 i think 260 miles right now on it i got a slow leak in my left tire and i've called many places nobody wants to touch it to fix it and my trolley broke off i broke your trolley i'm sorry i broke my trolley because

here's the thing mine comes with i've got the premium one and it's got the trolley it's got the little it's got the little telescoping handle you can pull up so you don't have to lean over like an animal. Oh. You can guide it. And mine broke off and it's irreparable.

AlexOh, I didn't know that was even a thing.

MerlinSo obviously, obviously I need a new better one.

AlexYou do. You need the, I found it. It's called Lumo. It's a Wally-ish creature.

MerlinOh, this is their, yes, this is, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. So do we think this is, no, oh boy, look at that. Oh, man. It looks like a Nintendo Switch. It does. It's like a Nintendo Switch with wheels.

AlexAnd with a little face. Oh, it can show you a little heart. The video's great. You can use it to distribute flyers.

MerlinIt's like my own personal spider. Yep. Look at me. I'm anime. Let me go check my mileage. I can't check it. I'm Penny Parker. Hi, I'm 52.

Speaker AMeep, meep. You guys like Spider-Man? Bye. Mock, mock. Oh. I took your picture. Don't call the authorities. I'm already gone me me oh my god hey you like upskirts see you later check me out on Instagram hey I'm upskirtlumo hi ladies I think you dropped your keys

no I'm pretty sure you did pretty sure you did you need to look live photos

MerlinMax, Max, breaking news update. How's everything going at the hotel? Has there been any more thumping?

MaxNo, it's, I mean, I'm sitting, I'm not, I'm not monitoring the situation. I have my noise canceling headphones on.

MerlinBut are you okay? Has your heart rate returned to normal? You're all okay?

MaxIt was very upsetting, but I'm doing, I mean, I'm okay.

MerlinI would be upset all day if something like that happened to me.

MaxYeah, I mean, I wasn't domestically abused, but it was a very upsetting thing to hear and have happen. And then I was sort of, wasn't sure. I mean, what would you guys do in that situation? Would you call the police? Would you call the front desk? Like, what would you do?

MerlinI'd call the front desk. I would do the middle path. Oh, yeah. Okay.

AlexYeah, yeah.

MerlinI mean, not that that's the right option, but that's what I would do.

MaxBy the time I got to the door, the hotel staff was already there, so there was nothing for me to do.

MerlinI'm sure they're specially trained for this kind of stuff.

MaxIt was, yeah. Yeah, that sounds... Did you steal a towel, sir? That sounds right.

AlexDo you tip somebody after you've been rescued from an extremely violent liquid?

MerlinThat's a really good question. Or how much do you tip? A percentage of what?

Speaker AYeah.

MerlinYeah.

Speaker AOh, no.

MerlinDiggit, digit, digit, challenge.

MaxChallenge.

MerlinAll right, Merlin, you're going to have to explain this one. Oh, that sounds like a peanut butter.

MaxNo, no, I did it. I'm doing it right now.

MerlinOh, yes and. This challenge sucked.

Speaker ANo, it was good. Okay, sorry. I liked it.

MerlinBut I keep looking at it. I'm going to close that window with your emoji in it because it's very upsetting. The challenge this week is what I call the Elliot Rosewater Challenge, and it just simply began based on a paragraph in the book Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, 1968, I believe. And it's a paragraph from this book where this character named Elliot Rosewater is trying on some things. He's trying on calling people dear. He's trying on being sympathetic because he wants to make the world a better place. The initial challenge, as posed in last week's After Show, more on that in a minute, was to try on some way of behaving with other people, strangers or otherwise.

And then by the end of the discussion last week, we landed on, well, John Syracuse corrected to me. He says this should be called Listen Without Prejudice. But it's Listen Empathetically or Listen with Empathy. And the idea is try to hear more than the mouth words that someone says. Listen to somebody and try to hear something deeper about what they're trying to say. Potentially ask them questions. The challenge was to listen empathetically.

Empathically? I wrote empathically. That's not right at all. That would be with your brain like Jean Grey. If you listen empathically, you'd be like

MaxDeanna Troy. Deanna Troy.

Merlinshe's the one yeah now is wesley crusher her son or is that wesley troy no that wesley crusher is dr crusher dr beverly crusher's son beverly crusher's son okay that's scottish

Speaker Awarp speed mr daddies i'm curious warp speed mr daddies no why did you think this was a bad

Merlinchannel. Fire the tachyon in Mr. Daddy's.

Speaker AI'm going to do this. Well, you know,

Merlinhere's the thing. I spent most of my time in this challenge thinking about what is... I know you're probably

Maxmaking a doing a bit about this, but Beverly Crusher actually is Scottish. It's established in the

Merlinshow. That's canon. I just wrote that down here in my Star Trek notebook, which is next to my Star Wars notebook, and I never confuse them.

MaxThere's an episode of Next Generation called The High Ground that explores

MerlinI saw the one where he plays the flute in the alternate universe.

MaxOkay. Yeah. That's a wonderful episode.

MerlinDid you hear Ian McKellen on David Tennant's podcast this week?

MaxYes. Oh boy. I don't, but wait a minute. Can I ask you guys a question? Cause you watch the new one.

MerlinI'm, I'm like two episodes, like two episodes in. Oh, Oh, the one with her. Oh, the one with her was great.

MaxPeter Capaldi.

MerlinNo, no, no, no. There's a lady now and I heard her on David Tennant's podcast and she was delicious. She was awesome.

MaxHave you watched the Peter Capaldi Doctor Who? Yes. Is there a bald guy in that show who's like his assistant?

MerlinYes.

AlexSometimes?

MerlinNo, it's the guy from... No, it's the guy from Matt Lucas. He sat next to us at the Magic Castle last night. He has alopecia. Oh, boy. And he's also the brother slash housemate in the wonderful movie Bridesmaids. He also plays the Borat character in a recent stage production of Les Mis.

AlexOh, interesting. I did not know that.

MerlinIf you go watch, go watch 20, go watch 25th anniversary and it's him and another lady and it's real good. Matt Lucas. I love that guy.

MaxYeah. He, I, we, we went and saw some, uh, some shows at the Magic Castle last night and he sat down right next to us and everyone around me was very excited that someone from Doctor Who was there and I didn't know who the fuck it was. I felt very left out.

MerlinYeah. Well, we, we went to a cat show, so I'm not exactly sweating it. Um, we, um, had the challenge. Wait, did you go to a cat show? Fucking A, yes. What did the shit out of a cat show?

MaxIs that a show? Is that a, like a, what is that exactly?

MerlinYou just haven't earned it yet, baby. No, no. You don't deserve to hear about my cat show.

AlexYou don't get that story.

MerlinBut here's what I will tell you. We went to a cat show and it was fucking great. And here's the thing now. Everybody's going to think I'm a poser because last night, guess what we watched? We watched the Netflix show Catwalk and some of the cats and people that we saw at the show were in that. So now I feel like a poser. Yes! Did you watch it? Did you watch Catwalk? Oh my God. Did you watch Catwalk?

Alexwho of course i did it's beautiful did you see the japanese bobtail zoom yes i met zoom you met

Merlinzoomie oh my god i totally met zoom well they call him zoomie but yeah zoomie in the netflix yeah yep that's the canadian name it has a u in it and i met and i met zoom

Alexat the uh cat agility ring and i met i met that lady oh my how did he do this time around

MerlinHe just wasn't feeling it.

Speaker AShe's like, listen, everyone. Zoom has already done this four or five times today, and he got it as low as 26 seconds, and he's just not feeling it right now. This is the nature of the cat agility course. Oh, my God.

MerlinI was right there. Zoom looked me in the eyes. I looked in Zoom's eyes. I really recommend Catwalk. We watched about 20 minutes of it, and we had to peel ourselves away for bedtime last night. But, oh, my God, Catwalk is so goddamn fun. Max, it's about cat shows. and it's about well here's the thing the beauty part is it's got all the joy of the cat show and it's also about this extreme competition between the women who companion the cats and it's so god damn funny

ooh la la

Speaker AI love ooh la la

Merlinnow the prevalence of opinion in the house is that we not only merely need to get a new cat, an additional cat, a secondary, backup cat Now it needs to be a Himalayan.

MaxWell, let me be honest with you. Your cat's not winning any cat shows.

MerlinYeah. Well, you know, she's not a formal competitor in cat shows, but she is a precious angel.

MaxShe's not going to do the obstacle course.

MerlinLet's call her an agility course, Max. I'm going to send you this photo that's now my Twitter header, and I'm going to let you enjoy. This is Wayne Harding. You're probably familiar with him if you follow the cat show circuit. He's real famous. So that's what number 51, who's my favorite cat. Alex, look at that precious angel.

AlexLet me...

MerlinYou can see that's Wayne Harding.

AlexMan, why is that?

MerlinYeah.

AlexOh, he is a big deal. I was so nervous.

MerlinLook at that angel. That's number 51.

MaxLook at the size of that absolute unit.

MerlinAbsolute unit.

MaxWow.

MerlinThat's the kind of cat we have.

MaxThat's the kind of cat we have. Now, Veronica would say that that can't has fur pants.

Speaker AOh, title, title, title. Look at the fur pants.

MerlinIt's a fur pants, baby. Did you see our bingo? I sent you the bingo card. At breakfast, we made a bingo card about what we expected to find, and we got like six of our items.

MaxWhy did you go to the cat show?

MerlinI found out I was going to a cat show. It was announced to me that we were going to a cat show for two nights. So we drove to Santa Rosa and went to a cat show. Two nights?

Speaker AWow. Oh, yes.

MerlinWell, no, I mean, you don't have a family. You don't have like a...

AlexI'm not punching down on this. I am incredibly jealous. I've looked into it and there is not really a cat...

MerlinOh my God, Alex, go, go. It's my daughter's... She's better than Disneyland. It's so fucking weird and fun.

AlexIt's... We'd have to get a hotel in the suburb.

MerlinWhen Wayne was judging this group, my daughter, my wife, my daughter, as soon as a seat opened up, they ran and got a seat in the front row to be near the greatness of Wayne Harding, who's kind of a big deal in the cat fancier community.

AlexHe's a very, very big deal.

MerlinHe's a big deal. He's like, he's on the board. Why am I telling you this? Cats, oh, look at this precious angel. Look at this precious angel with her eyes closed.

AlexMax, if I were to tell you that this cat won in a category of best altered, what would you think an altered cat is?

MerlinExactly. I had to Google it. What is an altered cat, Max?

Maxan altered cat what's an altered cat well i guess it's like uh it's like altered carbon like you can see through dimensions or something i haven't seen that show it just seems like a wacky side oh i see

Alexokay okay one that's not remotely what the show is about two an altered cat is one that has been genitally manipulated spayed and or neutered yeah all this bits it's that's the manipulation of its

Merlingenitals that are permanent in nature.

Speaker AIt's been altered.

MerlinIt's not a technical dingalingus. It's more like a dinglectomy.

MaxWhen it goes to make a baby, it just extrudes one of those little egg crepes.

uh alex i'm reading the wikipedia for altered carbon and i don't understand the point of the

Merlinpremise it's the guy from that movie in the tv show and it's blade runner basically yeah that guy yeah that one guy that was a handsome guy that's not from america they

Maxthe physical human or synthetic bodies are called sleeves and stacks can be transferred to new bodies after death but a person can be killed if their stack is destroyed yep oh my it's like if you die

Merlinand a dream.

MaxYeah, exactly. This sounds very high concept.

MerlinIt's really high budget and gorgeous.

AlexIt's the kind of thing where it's either for you or it's really, really not for you. And I enjoyed it quite a bit.

MerlinBut even if it's not for you, you could have it on in the background while you look at Twitter.

MaxSo the cat is a Methuselah.

Merlin969. Nice. It's the Old Testament, not the New Testament. It's so nice to have you back. Listen empathetically.

AlexMerlin, how did you go about this challenge?

MerlinWell, okay. In addition, now I remember what I was going to say. I was going to say I'm trying to come up with a taxonomy for when you've tried to do the challenge. You didn't kill at doing the challenge, but you really did the challenge and are prepared to talk about why it was difficult to kill at doing the challenge. I'm going to just frame that as a paradigm for thinking about success with challenges, as opposed to a full peanut butter, which is a different kind of thing. I was very into this challenge, and I found it very difficult to do, harder than I expected. Because I said to myself, I says, okay, for me, I'm a pretty outgoing guy. I like to think of myself as a pretty nice and kind person with strangers.

It would be trivially easy for me to listen empathetically and ask follow-up questions and try to hear what people are saying. Privately, I tried to do a better job of this with my family this week, and I don't want to go into that. Nothing bad happened, but you know, that's our own deal. With strangers, I found it hard. Even with my bodega lady, on the one hand, I found myself wanting to rush through the transaction and asking her too many things felt creepy. I did exercise it well at the cat show, I think, which is I had, I was obviously an idiot newbie and I'd seen 51

in three different rings. 51 being the cat in that photo. That's my favorite cat. I voted for the cat in the cat voting. 51 was my favorite. I love 51 And so finally, after the third time 51 didn't win, I approached 51's Companion. And I said, hey, 51 is my favorite. I'm totes going to vote for 51 in the popularity contest. Why even did 51 not win more ribbons? And the Companion explained to me how Cat Champions and Grand Champions work and how you have to climb the ladder.

And I did listen sympathetically. But then I also realized he just wanted to go on to the next thing and not talk to me. And I felt like I was kind of like pulling his ear a little bit. And so I think there is great value in the Elliot Rosewater challenge in general and in listening empathetically in particular, not just pretending to be interested, but I found it harder than I expected. And that's what I have to say about that. How'd you guys do?

MaxWell, one thing I tried to do was normally when I meet some sort of interesting person, especially if they're a woman and they say that they work in like, you know, I don't know, they study dinosaurs or something. I immediately put my hand up and I say now hang on because I've read some Wikipedia articles and I regaled the facts

Merlinyou're like IRL reply guy

Maxyeah so I've tried to not do that

Merlinno that's huge Max it is so hard to stop doing that

Alexwe're so proud

MerlinAlex we're not asking for a ribbon we know we gotta climb the ladder but I'm just here to tell you it's so hard to stop doing that

Speaker Alike oh hey before your sentence is done let me tell you a thing i think i know about that no i mean i i so no i i mean i'm not saying i'm not saying that's what you did but that's always me are you talking about the

Maxcretaceous era yeah i mean listen especially if it's something that you do you are like it comes from a good it comes from a good place because someone starts telling you about something and you get so excited and you're just like i know and you just want to be like i have a million questions i know all about this right it's like when i first talked to dr dom like i listened to podcast i care about food safety it's like a thing that i read about and i follow in the news and then it's like it's it's challenging because like what you should do is just shut the fuck up and listen to the person tell you information but you just you it's a it's a it's a it's a sign of

Merlinexcitement oh i do that i did that with my shrink the other day where he's just trying to explain something to me it's pretty scientific and involves brain stuff and i go i sound like i sound like david brent i'm like aha because synapses and he goes well actually not at all it's happening at a totally different it's so anyway the way I was like a hot and based on factors you know I'm just such a fucking idiot and I do that all the time and my daughter hates it will be in the lift and I play this game which is let me guess your accent and not only is it really stupid

and potentially offensive but I'm terrible at it

Maxyou can reach Merlin on Twitter at hot dogs ladies

Alexoh my god well no no no

Merlinbecause I like John Roderick I like to talk Sometimes I like to talk to my Lyft driver. And this person had a very pronounced accent and was very excited about his primary career, which is downhill skateboarding. And so we talked about that. And I said, you know what? Can I let me guess? Are you from, hmm, I want to say Poland or possibly the Czech Republic? He goes, I am from Brazil. I said, that's not close to what I guessed.

MaxThat's really not close.

MerlinTell me more about the downhill skateboarding game.

Maxthat's only the second most high stakes game next to let me guess if you're pregnant or not

Merlinnever never never never never never never there aren't enough nevers

Speaker Alook at that baby when's that baby do that baby it comes out loud baby

Merlinno but I'm not a terrible person but I could I could do better sometimes the best answer is nothing you know sometimes sometimes nothing's a pretty cool hand yeah i feel like there was

Alexthere was something going on here where you guys focus mostly on not talking yeah you know what

Speaker Aalex already wins i don't even care if she did it she wins yes i i i i did so i i first it's

Alexthe Hippocratic Oath. First, don't talk. I realized that as I was, well, to remind myself to do this, I had my friend draw a little cat on the inside of my arm, like below my Apple Watch. And you're thinking, that's crazy. You would have a cat anyway. But I was like, oh, why is this cat on my hand? And then I think about Cat's Cradle. And then I think about Kurt Vonnegut. And then I think about Elliot Rosewater and that's how I reminded myself and uh I I talked to a few people

this morning here is may I play a one minute and 30 one minute and 38 seconds from my my companion matchy yes all right you're gonna be recorded and I'm probably gonna have to play this for Max and Merlin oh no unless you say something really bad oh no that's Kara maybe I will just to cancel the thing all right so that's not the right one i talked to a lot of people see and also i'm not

Merlingoing to tell her she has a cool voice because that's none of my business alex did you do up

Maxyou you you did a you did a max here you made a whole audio documentary

Alexoh no it's just from my phone a laser pointer maybe we'll make him run sorry i don't mean to be talking about our fat son don't body shame our son our chunky son oh boy uh okay so the challenge this week was to listen with empathy like to try on an idea and specifically Merlin suggested listening with empathy how do you think I did uh 70 30 interesting why do you say that

Speaker Bbecause sometimes you just say things without thinking about them especially around me I don't know how you are at the office or with other people like yeah you know over over no I mean like over text with like specifically with Kara you were doing really great I'm very proud of you you listened with empathy very well don't do that because the camera or the microphone will hear and it's very annoying oh sorry um i was playing with cards yeah um so like you'll be doing really

well and then you'll just blurt something out like i don't know why so many people like you and then and then like listening that's talking but that means you didn't listen to like my inner monologue right you didn't listen to what the other person was saying because you answer without thinking I feel like does that make sense I see so basically I was actually like a man

Alexand waiting for you to stop talking so I could say what I wanted to say which is my biggest pet peeve when interviewing somebody or when podcasting is like when people just sit and wait for it's like they're doing a bit like they're waiting for the person to be done so that they can make their joke

Speaker Bwow right because i'm funnier i have more this sounds like a subtweet and now i feel bad about

Alexit i don't know who to dunk on right now uh no one we don't need to dunk on any one person but

Speaker Blike i think you did really great and i hope you keep doing it because it was very nice especially

Alexduring our like car conversations and stuff oh interesting what do you by car conversations you

Speaker Bmean like going like when we talk before work like when i drive you to and from work and we're talking about our days or talking about what we're planning on doing or like how we're feeling, whatever. It was nice because I feel like you put your phone down, even if you were anxious and actually listened to me because you had to like think about it. So I think it was good and I hope

Alexyou keep up with it. Thank you. One, that was really sweet. I was not expecting that. Two, um did you I know that I asked you this before but did it did I get better at being like okay this needs you need to just say these words rather than you want advice or a solution that's another

Speaker Bpet peeve that I I do like I want to fix it and oh you mean like where uh you want to know if you should like feel what I'm feeling. Like if I just want you to agree and be like, yeah, that was a really shitty thing that person did. Or if I'm asking for advice on how to like fix the shitty thing the person did. Yes. I am bad about vocalizing that. And you were good about asking

Alexme which I want. I, yeah, that that's yes. So, so I did not peanut butter on this challenge. You did not peanut butter at all. Oh, thank you. Yeah, there we go. Uh, also I just remember it was a show involving brothers and one of the brothers was not listening to his other two brothers and it made me sad. But it does sound like I'm talking about you two.

MerlinHey, I'm the Travis of this show and I feel like I gotta call 911. I have so many remarks that I've been preparing while you were talking and playing your recording. I have so many remarks.

Speaker AI looked at Twitter and realized what I wanted to say.

MerlinDo you have, well, hang on, sidebar, do you have a lot of, like, talks with Matchy? Sounds like you guys talk.

AlexOh, I mean, well, oh, yeah, every day? Really? Yeah. Yeah, wait, why wouldn't we?

MerlinThat's terrifying to me.

AlexWait, why? Why?

MerlinNo, it's just, like, it's really amazing. You're so mature.

AlexI mean, that's a word for it. I mean, I don't know. I was very lucky and it's such a fucking cliche.

MerlinI never, I never asked my wife for how, for, for, for criticism. I just, I just asked for praise. Right. Oh my God. That's all I ever do. Did you see I took out the trash? Huh? Huh?

Speaker AUh, yeah. I mean, we do that too.

MerlinOh my God. You're so much better than me. What a piece of shit you are, Alex.

AlexWe do that too, where I'm like, Matt, you did not comment on the, that I, that I vacuumed the cat tree and it was really hard for me. It's.

Speaker AI guess these dishes, guess the dishes just did themselves.

AlexYeah, uh-huh, uh-huh. But that's like the hard, I feel like even with coworkers or talking to anybody, I don't know if they are just airing their grievances or if it's, do you want advice or, you know what I mean? Like, do you just want me to commiserate?

MerlinIt's like it's Parks and Rec. It's Parks and Rec when, who was it, said to Chris, because Chris is having, he's responding terribly to Anne's pregnancy and keeps trying to give her suggestions and products and stuff. And who was it that said it? Was it Ben? Like you've just got to learn to say, and I've adopted this. It's true. Sometimes you just need to say that sucks and mean it.

AlexYep.

MerlinIs that kind of what Matthew was talking about?

AlexYeah. Yeah. Because it's like when you complain about your therapist, you don't have any. I'm like, I don't know what to do here. Maybe it's old.

MerlinMaybe it's old information. Maybe this is something from the 90s. But I do feel like there was a thought technology of the time, which was, guys, you've got to stop trying to solve everybody's problems. Or, no, you've got to stop pretending to solve problems with instant solutions and start just listening to what the person is saying and be empathetic. Kind of what we're talking about. You know what I'm saying, though? I appreciate when people do that with me. I've got friends who, like, sometimes I just want to bitch and gossip. Like, I don't want a solution. I just want to tell you something that sucks.

Is that still a good idea? Or is that just, is that thin 90s shit?

AlexI didn't, well, as someone who was barely around during that time, I did not know that was a thought technology, but just good advice in general? I don't, I mean, yeah, it's especially hard with, for me, like with, oh God, this is so gross. I have not been single for a very, very long time. And I'm not going to play the other recording I had with Kara, but like we were talking about like her relationships and I'm trying to be like, I'm just going to listen to this. I have no advice to give because I don't know, boys.

MerlinHere's what you need to do.

AlexI've never had a sausage night. I don't know what to say.

MerlinI've never had fresh sesame oil, if you know what I mean. I like snails and oysters. What? That was really, wow, very performative. But I felt you.

Alexoh well of course anytime you're talking into a microphone it's a performance i'm gonna start

Merlindoing that i'm gonna start i'm gonna start but no but that was a very candid conversation

Maxand very good oh i guess sure what if merlin what if we turn all of our relationships into podcasts

Merlini don't exactly it could be like that terrible self-help show where you keep asking your husband if he has sparks joy from dishes do you ever feel for the husbands in that alex be honest

Alexhonestly yeah the the one guy who was just like i just like my baseball cards like he was so game

Merlinbut like he sounds he's basically sounds sounds like my my brother-in-law who can be summarized as this it's it's kind of a sigh and it's kind of a what are you gonna do it's kind of like there's nothing i can really add to this i really don't want to talk about how we fold our sheets anymore.

But she does the same thing. You know what I'm talking about? That show with the two ladies talking about self-help books. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so awkward. Max, there's a show where two women read a self-help book and then try very actively

Maxto put it in. I've listened to this. You told me about this. I liked it.

MerlinYeah, for like three weeks they try to do it. And then they drag in the husbands to ask them how it's going. And especially for the relationship-y ones, it's it's a little cringy sometimes to me yeah personally like yeah no no no for sure and

Alexthey're like oh boy they make they make a tina noise sometimes yeah and then i get very excited uh but yeah i am all for monetizing and podcasting relationships that's that's how i do that's true you do that you do that i do i do indeed you monetize your relationships i i i don't know

Merlinhow to have a hobby. You should have a podcast about your program, your system. Your pyramid-shaped system for monetizing relationships.

AlexOh, interesting.

MerlinI could partner with you with my network, Flocked In. We could work together.

AlexOh, good. This is good.

MerlinI think you definitely did in peanut butter. Not that you need any more praise. How'd you do, Max? Did you record anything with Kara you want to

Maxshare with us? Well, yeah. I had a nice chat with Kara about her relationships. I don't feel like I'm going to play it at this time.

MerlinThat's so interesting because I had a really, really nice talk with Kara about our relationships, but I don't feel comfortable playing it. I do have honey. Could you tell me I did good? Honey, honey, come back. Don't make me photograph you with my scooter.

How'd it go, Max?

MaxI don't know. I don't have a lot to say beyond what you guys have already said. I tried to just like shut up and listen to people better.

MerlinWas it hard? Was it difficult to do?

MaxWell, you know what's difficult is to remember to do it. Once I remembered when I was in a conversation and then I sort of had the little light bulb go off of like, oh, right, my Dubai Friday thing. I should just shut up and listen to people. It's interesting. Like I do feel like my conversations were more interesting. Here's one thing was like they went in more interesting directions because I didn't wind up just talking about stuff that I already had like a note card for.

MerlinThat's so hard.

MaxDo you know what I'm talking about?

MerlinOh, I 100% know what you're talking about.

MaxIf you have your note card ready to go, then you kind of, if you're on autopilot, you could steer.

MerlinYou're existentially doing what Alex just described, which is like you're just ready to quickly deploy the file card on something. Right. Rather than listening for the context that would tell you like what's really happening in this person's life, their thought process, et cetera.

MaxAnd also like I've already told people about my note cards, right? Like I've already had that conversation. So it's much more interesting to have a different – to just shut up and listen and have a different conversation. Another thing is I noticed that there were like – especially when I was with groups of people, there were just like times when everyone was quiet because I wouldn't – I just decided not to be the person to be like, so let's talk about this.

And that was weird. I didn't like that.

MerlinDoes that feel awkward when you sit with that?

MaxOh, I hated it.

MerlinYeah, it sucks.

MaxYeah, and I felt like everyone was waiting. I felt like they were like, why isn't Max starting some conversation about Survivor?

MerlinYeah.

AlexDance, card boy, dance.

MerlinYeah. I feel like some kind of broken Robin Williams character sometimes where it's like sort of like you, like Matthew was describing, where I have this like machine gun of words and thoughts from many angles. It's like my like multifaceted laser tag team versus you just trying to get along. And like I'll go, shut the fuck up. Like, don't do that all the time. It's so hard. I agree about the remembering part, though. I think that if one, if a listener were to attempt this challenge, I would posit that the first thing you will find more difficult than you thought was remembering to do this and then not copping out because it's easier to just say, have a nice day.

It's hard.

AlexThat's why you draw a cat on your hand.

MerlinThat's a good idea. Is that technically a tattoo at that point? Triforce, they call it. we should all do that now what'd you guys you guys got boxes get a tattoo with each other whoa i don't know about that yeah yeah yeah my greatest fear is someone getting a tattoo of my

Alexname and or face like that is something i genuinely that's your greatest fear not uh that and falling off of uh uh a tall heights heights is what i was trying to say I'm listening.

MerlinYes. And I'm listening. Tell me more. Tell me more. No,

Alexthink about it. If somebody, if, if that sucks.

MerlinOh my God. That sucks.

Show notes

Transcript

120. Papa Normative

Show notes

Transcript

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