119. Adult Magic

AlexThis is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Demkin. This week's challenge, read Feed by M.T. Anderson.

MaxThat's a fucking miracle. I just did perform an actual miracle for you and you're like, that is so upsetting hey berlin hello hi i just performed a magic trick for alex and here's the effect is you just you very fairly ribbon spread the deck so it's all spread out on the table and you go look how you guys doing you guys good hi merlin and you go and you look at any card in the deck and you just think of it you don't say it you don't point to it nothing like that and then i put the deck back and i and i cut exactly to that card and then and then alex says her card and you very

you just flip it over and you reveal and it's exactly the card that you cut to and i did this trick twice i did the trick twice i did it twice in a row you picked a card yes and camera picked a card i did it twice in a row and then afterwards alex is like well that's not impressive you're just looking at the deck and you see where i look and then you're cutting exactly to the card

Alexthat's not what i said that's what i said hey merlin how's it going but isn't that also an

Merlinamazing even if that's how i'm doing it max did you did you do a ribbon spread for that how did you do it max what you're describing what you're describing is continually hitting people near you with a stick and then being surprised that they weren't impressed but it's amazing no no this is a form of assault and it needs to stop this is an intervention it's an intervention it needs to stop

Maxcan you just say your theory of can you say it's wrong but can you say your theory of how that

Alextrick no i got in trouble last time for talking about magic and a magician reached out and yelled

Maxat me because i said something what first of all no magician listens to this podcast but also how

Alexdare you know it Alex I'll be the exposure police on this podcast you're fine you'll own the shutdown you have you've got the the sequence the what the sequence is called the sequence is called the okay I don't remember what it's called I can't do it Merlin was it a rip what is it was it a ribbon

Maxspread yeah it was a ribbon so you think there's the deck is in a sequence and I've memorized

Merlinno no yes I you pulled it I think it's I think it's a trick Max I think you did a trick you

AlexYou pulled the deck out. You wouldn't let me shuffle it. Oh, I'll shuffle it afterwards. I'll shuffle afterwards.

MerlinIt's like explaining to a child how you didn't actually separate your thumb at the joint. You would say it's a trick. I fooled you with a trick. When will you own up to that this is a form of adult assault and it needs to stop?

AlexNo. Okay.

MerlinIf you do guys have an HR department, what the fuck is going on there?

AlexIt's never, I'm never going to win because the more, Max is like three years ahead in terms of adult magic. And I used to, when Max started.

MerlinWhat's adult magic?

AlexAdult magic.

MerlinAre you tired of all the kids' parties and disappearing boxes? It's time to discover adult magic.

AlexI used to, I remember.

MaxDamn, I just did a fucking miracle. It was. I worked so hard on that. That's a miracle. And Alex was like, oh, well, you're just doing it. You're just literally doing the thing that it looks like.

AlexI remember the day.

MerlinBut it's like shitting in somebody's desk drawer and going, yeah, but how did it get in there? Well, because you waited until they were gone and you shat in their drawer. Yeah, but how did it get in there?

AlexWho puts a two of hearts on my desk every single day?

MerlinWhere'd the lighter fluid come from?

AlexMerlin, I come to my desk every single day and there's a two of hearts. And to be fair, I have, and I just assumed they were taking the two of hearts out of the deck I had on my, uh, goddammit. Merlin's not here. This isn't fair. I'm cutting the deck.

MerlinYou sound like you're a little stuffed up, Alex. You stuffed up.

AlexOh, God. Okay. So I've had about three. I've, oh, man. I've been up since, like, Max is shaking my head because I'm not doing the trick the way he wants, but I'm having a conversation with Merlin Mad.

MerlinWow, it's assault on assault for this guy. It's just ridiculous. Call HR. This has to stop.

AlexWell, it's okay. Max isn't my boss anymore. I have a new supervisor and we do...

MerlinWho's your new boss, Alex? Can you speak candidly now? Can you speak candidly about what's going on with Max there?

AlexWhat does that mean?

MerlinAre you allowed to speak up now about what's happening to you?

MaxCan you say the story about the time I threw a binder across the room and it struck a staff member? Digga, digga, digga, follow up.

AlexIt's funny, it's funny. I come to work and Kevin just isn't chucking binders. There's no staplers.

MerlinShe wasn't trying to hit anybody. She just threw a binder. Why are people so hard on Amy Klobuchar?

AlexOh, man. I mean, I do miss it. Max was so great at shooting staples. You know, there's just no one else in the office. Shooting staples? You know, when you squeeze the stapler and it shoots out at people? You've never done that to anybody? No?

MerlinHe expects a lot from his staff. That he will say. Wait, is that an Amy Klobuchar thing?

AlexNo. Well, yeah, she threw a stapler, but she wasn't good at shooting them out.

MerlinShe threw a binder, but she wasn't trying to hit anybody. I've never shot a stapler out.

AlexI know. That's why you need to step it up.

MaxYeah. Oh, you're saying I need to start doing that.

AlexYeah. I see.

MaxI thought I was being accused of throwing staplers. No, no.

AlexI don't. It's very hard to do.

MaxI heard, I think I just heard this on Chapo, so I don't know if it's true or not, but apparently she, one time she was like late for a meeting and she made the staff member who was like did her schedule.

MerlinA low level staff member go in. Yes.

MaxGo into the meeting and say, I'm sorry, but Senator Klobuchar is late to this meeting because I'm stupid and bad at my job.

MerlinYes. Apparently her catchphrase is the worst. That was the worst. Yikes. That was rough.

MaxI mean, so you guys were just saying that was rough. Yikes. So you guys were just saying that you feel like that she, you really like her prospects and you feel like you could really hang out with her. Oh, yeah. She's a solid hang. Yeah, she milkshake ducked.

AlexMinnesota style. So fast. Minnesota nice.

MerlinI hate this year. Each year is worse than the other year. It's all worse.

MaxMy boy Pete Buttigieg is looking pretty good, though. Not milkshake ducked yet. Well. So, listen, I actually have prepared some stuff for this podcast. Oh, he's reaching into his bag, Berlin. No, no, no, no. I'm just getting my iPad.

AlexOh, nope. It's not a stapler.

MaxI actually did everything for this episode but the challenge. Oh, my God.

AlexOh, my God.

MerlinYay.

MaxI got a story for you.

AlexDid you guys get past part one? Oh, man.

MaxSo just really quickly, I have some news and some articles and some follow-up and stuff. But I also have my Survivor draft. And I prepared a dossier. So just very quickly to catch our listeners up. So because I've become a big Survivor fan, I've been invited to join the Chicago Media Illuminati Survivor Draft.

MerlinWow. Wow. It's an honor just to be nominated.

MaxYeah. Geez. Wow.

MerlinYou're in some rare air, my friend. The Chicago version of that? Yes.

MaxWow.

MerlinYou're in a regional survivor group? What an honor.

MaxIt's pretty rarefied air. There's a rabbi in there. Mazel tov. Yes. And basically, the way it works is before the show starts. So when does Survivor air, actually? Does anyone know?

AlexYes. February 20th.

MaxWhat day of the week, though?

AlexWednesday.

MaxSo on Sunday, this Sunday, we are doing the draft. And there's some software that facilitates this. And the way it works is you get points. You pick people into your draft, into your team. And if your guys, if they make it, if they win, obviously you get points. If they make it to the finals, you get points. And if they get a, like a one-on-one, like what do you call that? The face on like interview? Yeah.

MerlinRose sweet?

MaxFantasy sweets.

MerlinNo, that's it. Okay.

MaxNo. If they, but do you know what I'm saying? If they get that one-on-one interview? They get the confessional. Thank you. The confessional. Then you also get points. So I've prepared a dossier. I have a note here with every member sorted into their initial tribes.

MerlinThis is for a season that has not aired yet, just to be clear.

MaxFor a season. This is for the upcoming season. So and basically what information is available to me?

MerlinYou know nothing of these people. So you had your intelligence sources go out and prepare a dossier.

MaxYes, exactly. So I've got names, ages, professions, photos of everybody. I watched all the videos. They do these like preseason videos with Entertainment Weekly. Oh, okay. I like Zapruder filmed those. I literally framed through them looking for clues.

And then I also got into the gray web Survivor production leaks. Now, I don't think those are very accurate. There's a gray web. Yeah, I don't think they're very accurate. I think they're a little bit accurate.

AlexAre you talking about Ross's real

Maxworld or something? No, there's sketchy forums where people who work on production for Survivor make anonymous posts and they're like, this thing happened. And then you have to decide. But they hate that. And then there's a thing where there's like, you have to decide if it's real or not. And there's some people have credibility from knowing things about future seasons.

AlexThe little birdies of CBS.

MaxSo basically, I've gotten every possible scrap of information on these people that I can. I prepared a dossier. And I was wondering if this might be after show material, but I thought it could be interesting if I share my dossier with you and then you help me pick, you know, who are my first round draft picks here.

MerlinThat feels like an after show.

MaxOkay. All right. So if people want to hear about my dossier, and we can each pick our Dubai Friday favorites for this upcoming season of Survivor, you can go to giveusyourfuckingmoney.com. You pay $5 a month to become a Patreon Survivor. Patreon. I like that. No, wait. It's not a Survivor. Patreon cast. You become a Patreon castaway. And then you can hear our Survivor picks on this week's after show. We should make buffs.

AlexOh, my God.

MaxOh, shit, dog. We should make buffs.

AlexMerlin, you joke.

Merlinbut I don't I don't see you guys are always ideas ideas ideas I got one idea a year and it's a

Alexfucking good idea it's such a great idea get a buff I almost bought one the other day because

MerlinI keep seeing them my daughter loves her buff I washed her buff last night her buff is clean

Alexyeah they're all over Chicago because it's cold have you ever heard the difference between costly

Maxand expensive yes so tell me again no it's the thing I came up with so you know it is it is

Merlincostly, but you know, what is costliness in the face of the love of a child?

MaxWell, it's, but that's the thing is, it's also, it's a product that you're going to use all the time. You can use it as a, you can use it as a shirt. It could be,

Merlinit could cover your midriff. It could be a blindfold. You can make sure your elbow stays bent. There's all kinds of ways you can deploy a buff.

MaxWhen you go through the maze, it could become a blindfold.

MerlinYou know the company's called Buff?

MaxThat's the company? Yes. The company's called Buff. It's not like Buff Systems Incorporated. Kara's here. Kara's bringing Alex some napkins. No, I broke my

Alexother glasses. Well, my doctor broke my other glasses. I'll tell you the story later.

MaxHang on. Kara, are you watching Survivor? No. Oh, fuck

Alexplease. Bitch, please. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. My good friend Kara Fagan just brought me a Diet Coke and Kleenex. Anyway, proceed.

MerlinSo Buffs. Yeah, but you know it really

Maxhelps support the show. Oh, I'm all for this. I think we should contact the Buff Solutions Incorporated. We call Robert Buff.

AlexHi. They do it for corporate. Hi.

MerlinMy name is Robert Buff. Alright, before

Alexthe bit goes on. Do you think that the Buff

Maxsongs are going to have some sort of inheritance dispute and it's going to be like a King Lear situation?

MerlinThere's going to be a reality show about the famous Buff fail signs. My large adult Buff boy.

MaxThey're named like Turg and Corp.

MerlinDid you see the photo that Don Jr. posted of him and his father? And there's like six inches of space between them.

Speaker AI'm so honored to be with real Donald Trump.

MerlinIt's like a force field separating them.

MaxOh, God. Let's see. What do I have here? What do you got here? What are we talking about?

AlexAre we going to talk about the 17-year-old white boy?

Max17-year-old white boy.

AlexOh, man.

Merlin17-year-old white boy. 17-year-old white boy.

AlexOkay, never mind.

MerlinI hope somebody starts covering 17-year-old white boys is what I hope. Oh, this is that magazine article.

MaxIs this Esquire? Is this Esquire magazine?

Speaker ACan I ask you a question?

MaxLike, before we, I mean, I know, I didn't, I don't know too much about this because I've been trying so hard to not be on Twitter unsuccessful. I mean, I've been on it.

MerlinBased on our super secret private text channel, you suck at it because you continue to post more toots in our channel than anybody else for somebody who's not on twitter is the thing but i

Maxhave but but don't forget that i have ways of seeing toots that oh you're on the gray twitter yeah great yeah but like no but i i see toots come up in my in my other non-twitter things

Merlinbecause that's journal comes up in your non-twitter things a lot of the internet now is articles where it's lists of toots oh oh that's true that's absolutely true you embed it so i'm seeing funny toots even if I'm not using the Twitter application. That's pretty canny.

MaxSo, okay, so with this, this is an article in Esquire, and they did a, you know, there's a famous piece of writing. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? There's a famous piece of literary nonfiction that's like a day in the life of an American boy.

MerlinWhat is it? 17-year-old white boy has a cold? Famous gay to lease piece? That's funny to four people. No, I don't know what you're talking about. um just okay how you doing alex no no keep keep keep thinking i'll talk to alex it's a really famous piece of writing it's a famous piece of writing 17 year old boy i'm gonna say that if it

Alexwas about if it was the day of the life of an american man i'm just not gonna read it wow okay

Maxit's called okay i'm sorry it's called the american male at age 10 okay and it's a very by Susan Orlean.

MerlinOh, I like her.

MaxAnd it's, I couldn't recommend this essay more highly. It's like, I mean, I think it's widely considered one of the best pieces of like nonfiction, like literary nonfiction ever. And the premise is this journalist or this writer, Susan Orlean, spends a day with a 10-year-old boy. I don't know when this was written, maybe the 90s or something.

MerlinWhen I do it, it's a problem.

MaxIt's the best, it's the best, it's the best piece of writing. It's so good. Okay, Susan Orlean, boy. The American Male at Age 10 by Susan Orlean. It's the opening sentence. If Colin Duffy and I were to get married, we would have matching superhero notebooks.

AlexYeah, not weird at all. Not weird at all. It's so weird. No, no, no.

MerlinI'm there. It's from December 1992. It's so good, you guys.

AlexSecond sentence. We would wear shorts, big sneakers, and long baggy t-shirts depicting famous athletes every single day, even in the winter. What? We would sleep in our clothes. What is happening? I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it. We'd both be good at Nintendo.

MerlinAlex this is a genre this is a genre of non-fiction article don't be hateful but it's got Macaulay Culkin on the cover isn't that Macaulay Culkin

Alexam I saying his name wrong

MerlinMacaulay Culkin

Alexhe's not Colin Duffy

Maxyou guys are making fun of this but when you read this you're going to fucking love it so much

Merlinshe's making fun of it I'm trying to support your bit I don't know what the bit is and I'm trying to support it

Maxit's not a bit I just thought when everyone got excited about it I feel like this article is very self-consciously sort of the 2019 version of this very famous Susan Orlean piece. And people don't have... And I'm not... It sucks. But I think people would understand what they're going for more if they knew that this thing existed and that it's an important piece of writing. That's all.

MerlinRight, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I haven't read it. I will look at it.

MaxYou know where I think this might have been collected is... Does anyone remember that Ira Glass curated book of like the best American nonfiction?

MerlinYeah.

MaxYeah. He had like an annual thing, right? I think that's where I found this I think it was collected in that

MerlinIt's nice to finally get the POV Of what the whites are thinking

MaxIt's so funny Our favorite movie star Morgan Freeman Would visit us occasionally We would listen to the same eurythmic song Here Comes the Rain Again over and over again And watch two hours of television every Friday night We would both be good at football Have best friends and know how to drive We would cure AIDS and the garbage problem And everything that hurts animals We would hang out a lot with Colin's dad For fun, we would load a slingshot with dog food and shoot it at my butt. We would have a very good life. Wow. That's so good.

Merlin1992. So now he, I love stuff like that. He's 27 now. Oh, 27. Saturn's return. Yeah. He's 27 now.

AlexOh, see, I could marry him and it would be much less weird.

MerlinNow that would be a fun reality show.

AlexThat would indeed.

MerlinAlex heard about him when he was 10 years old and now they cohabitate. They can't change the house because the landlord's mean.

MaxWere you guys. He's not mean.

AlexHe's just dumb.

MaxWere you guys able to get yourself mad about this Esquire article?

AlexNot – I mean – I was like, well, and then I scrolled past it. No, I mean, I don't know.

MaxI wasn't able to work myself into the lather that I was – I know that you were supposed to get all –

MerlinIt's more like – it's more crow feed. It just feels like more of this like, hey, look over here. Hey, look over here. It's like that kind of, you know, that kind of 18 hour flu that political Twitter gets where it's where it's collective genitals seize up into its body about some bit of outrage. Hey, hey, hey.

Oh, oh, oh, God. President has a golf room.

MaxI saw it. Now we got to talk about that. That's we got to talk about the golf room.

MerlinYeah.

MaxNo, I saw everyone getting really fucking working themselves into a lather and they were turning all red and there's like a vein popping on their head. And they're like, they're writing about the boy who's mad about PC. And I was like, boy, I can't get myself to feel anything. I don't care. Like, I can't get myself to feel anything about this.

AlexI mean, the guy's face, I will admit, just the pictures of this kid are so.

MaxDo you guys remember the MAGA teen? Remember the MAGA teen?

AlexI do think about the MAGA teen quite often, actually. He's very frightening. I do not like him.

MaxSounds like some kind of a patch.

AlexIf you want to feel old, remember the magateen?

MerlinHe's no Covington teen.

AlexTen things only Covington teens would understand. Blackface.

MerlinYeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. Just, you know, I'm not very online still. I don't post a lot of things, but I'm very online. But like, yeah, I'm getting that fatigue again. I'm for sure getting the fatigue again where like, I don't know. I mean, it's you take like just take two steps back and go, holy God. You know, first of all, everybody's fucked up. Every single person is fucked up.

MaxNot me. I'm normal.

MerlinYou're so normal. Is this your card? But like, I don't know. We don't even get to have this moment where we're excited that so many women are running for president. We don't even get to have that moment because there's all of these little derails and all the crow feed is like taking us down these different paths to go like, let's focus intensely on this thing at a five foot level for 10 minutes and it's like i got something about that

Maxthat we're gonna have to edit out should we you want to talk about the the presidential race no please don't no no no nothing nothing that requires editing oh no no we'll see where it goes i'm

Merlinexcited to see what you're gonna do with it oh here comes up here comes that thursday night call

Speaker Ai can't wait to see what you're gonna do with this i'm at the stovetop stuffing factory with my friend robert's stovetop and i just realized they said something problematic tell queen to cut out that part and all the other parts where we talk about it we're gonna have to take out the

Maxwhole stovetop section one of the um story the big stories uh that i thought was very funny this week was uh camilla harris was like yeah when i was in college we used to be i used to uh we used to be I was real into the weed, and we would roll it up like a cigarette, and we would smoke it.

She smoked the weed like a cigarette. She smoked it like a cigarette. And then she's like, yeah. And then we would listen to Snoop Dogg and Biggie. And someone pointed out that she graduated college in 1986, and Snoop Dogg and Biggie didn't release their first—they were like 10 years old at the time, and they didn't release their first albums until well into the 90s.

MerlinThey were the age of a Susan Orlean child.

MaxAnd I thought that was funny, and I made fun of her a little bit, because why did I make fun of her? It's funny to me when any politician sort of tries to make an image of themselves to change how they're perceived in a way that's not real. There's like an inherent. Especially when they spend so much time prosecuting people for weed. Right. But isn't it inherently a little bit comical when someone wants to be perceived in a certain way and then they like make up. They're like, you know, whether they're trying to be cool or trying to be more of an adult than they are or seen as having more money than they are.

Like it's always an inherently sort of farcical position.

MerlinBecause at first you're, I mean, you become empathetic of going like, oh, yeah, we all remember being a certain way at a certain time in life. But then it's so jarring. It's like watching a movie set in like 1985 where they're playing music from 1992. And you go, you just lied to me. Like you're trying to invoke some kind of nostalgic feeling about this thing that couldn't happen. And it puts a lot, and it sounds dumb, but if you care about that particular era and that music and that time, you're like, what? You know, like if you, I can still, I was telling my daughter this morning, like, for example, for example, we were talking about my history with jury duty in the past.

And I said, I remember the last time that I was called for jury duty. I can tell you that I sat in the jury assembly room on the day that we released the Sean Spicer episode of this show. Not that it's like our best episode, but I do have a very specific memory of sitting in the jury room in the Superior Court building. And Max says, he's made of gum. And I laughed out loud in the jury assembly room. My memory for sound is very specific. Like I would not, I would not. No, I'm just saying like a lot of people are like this. I can tell you, I can remember where certain parts of a podcast where I was walking in New Zealand when this part of that podcast was playing.

I have a terrible memory for almost everything. But there are certain things that are like, like Max says, flashbulb moments. And like, you know, OK, let's set aside for a minute. Like, yeah, you fucking prosecuted so many people so they could have prison labor. Is that what happened? But OK, fine, we'll set that aside. Instead, you're going to like you're going to like Google the names of hip hop artists from the 90s and get it wrong by six years or 10 years. It's just it's just gross and dumb. And it's like it makes you realize how farcical this chasing cultural relevancy is.

MaxThere's also something to me that is very like the way that people want to just the way that people sort of imagine the voters want to see them in relation to marijuana. It sort of exposes the like kayfabe of politics a little bit, the like falseness of it, because 10 years ago or 15 years ago, everyone was like, well, I maybe my peers experimented with marijuana, but I never inhaled. I'm a good boy. And now they're like, yeah, I rolled up that sticky icky. I was smoking that loud. And, you know, like, you know, I, yeah, I bought. So I went to my dealer and I bought, you know, I got an eighth and I grounded up and smoked a fat bowl.

MerlinAnd I'm not black or a man, so I'm not in jail for 20 years.

MaxSo I kind of made some jokes on Twitter about this. And, you know, I then I almost immediately saw, you know, I got some comments and I saw this backlash of like, you know, where people are like, oh, here we go again with the with the same thing that happened to Hillary. which is these sort of sexist attacks that are saying, oh, she's inauthentic. But what we really mean by that is it's code for like we don't like that she's a woman. And, you know, I tried to sort of search my heart and I thought, do I think this is funny because Kamala Harris is a woman

or do I think it's funny because she's like a politician who's trying desperately to be seen a certain way? I think it's the latter, but I was curious what your guys' feelings about this are. It's a good question. It's a really good question.

MerlinI would call that Hermes scarf Twitter. It's not necktie Twitter. It's a little bit different. Oh, here we go again. Same thing. What do you think, Alex? You're the expert on this. You tell us what you think.

AlexI am the expert on sexism, obviously, because I have a vagina.

MerlinNo. But you have, but don't you feel like, I mean, let's real talk. Like, don't you feel like you have a certain, sensitivity is too strong a word, but like you have an awareness, a radar for when something is couched in sexist, implicitly sexist speech or thinking.

AlexYeah. Yeah, obviously when you hear it first like, oh, she was a bad boss, like she was too harsh, and it's like, oh, that sounds real sexist.

MaxAnd then you read this woman throwing binders at people. There was even a staffer who was quoted about Klobuchar. This is about Amy Klobuchar, but someone said, I had heard stories that she was awful to her staff. And what I assumed was— It made it all the way to Veep. And what I assumed was, I assumed that was a sexist attack. But then when I worked for her, I realized it wasn't a sexist attack. She was awful to her staff.

MerlinEveryone at Veep had heard the same rumor that this is purely a rumor. But the rumor going around Veep, I guess amongst the writers and producers, was that there was a famous urban myth or rumor that Amy Klobuchar had had her staff shave her legs for her. And they could not come up with a way to make that work on the show because it was so implausible. It's almost certainly an urban myth.

Speaker AYeah.

MerlinThere's this phenomenon that I really, I think about so much and I don't have a clear way to articulate. But there's this levels of villainy or levels of fandom that's so fucking complicated. And I don't know how to, I'm trying to think of a good way to describe it. I don't mean to derail the show, but I do think about this so much. We're like, think about the, basically think about this. Think about the kind of thing where you're like, you're not allowed to make fun of my family. Only I'm allowed to make fun of my family. Because there's levels to this, right? There's all kinds of stuff where you could be incredibly cruel to your siblings and your family.

But if anybody else would do that, you could, hey, that's off base. You could, for example, like I could have a very strong opinion about the wrestler Daniel Bryan, like based on his character that I really like in wrestling. But on another level, I know wrestling is stupid and fake. But on another level, you know what I'm saying? There's all these levels to villainy and like you, we make cultural distinctions and value judgments on many, many levels where you could, if you did the like seven wise kind of thing on this, you know, everything's stupid, everything's important, but like we all focus on these different things.

So when we're, so I feel like, you know, yeah, well, I can criticize Amy Klobuchar about that just if it's true, because it's important to be able to get staff and to bring in leadership who's willing to work for you. And it's a huge red flag. But if the conservatives or the Fox News is making fun of Amy Klobuchar, I get real touchy about it. Do you know what I'm saying? Absolutely. Do you accept the concept that there's levels to like – it's very few intelligent people in my mind who are able to say categorically that something is always really good or always really bad. Because you always have to view it in context amongst other things.

And that's why we sometimes fall back to shit like, oh, this is worse than the Holocaust or Hitler. And it's like the conversation falls apart because there's so many levels to this. I don't know. I really want to work this, not on the program, but I want to work out this concept in my mind because I think it's paradigmatically important to understanding how we interrogate the culture and how we choose to take a side about virtually anything. Like, I don't think reality TV is good. I don't recommend Survivor to people, but I watch three episodes a night. Is that a contradictory, hypocritical thing?

Possibly. I don't know, and I frankly don't care. I just, I know what I like, and I'd rather watch this than that. TV might be bad for you. I don't know. But like everybody evaluates all this stuff on all these different levels. And if you only ever take the one kind of comment somebody said, given a certain context, you can blow completely out of proportion. I don't know. Is that hypocritical? Should it matter?

AlexI think it was someone very, very smart who said that like hypocrisy doesn't matter because we all are hypocritical. And that doesn't mean we can't examine our own behavior and other people's behavior.

MerlinI think somebody smart once said the people who are most concerned about hypocrisy are the people who are worried about being outed as a hypocrite. And therefore, you get this Shirley Jackson, the lottery thing, where you're more than happy to pile on to somebody else who you call out as a hypocrite because they don't agree with you. But ultimately, you're living in terror that somebody discovers that you're hypocritical because everybody's hypocritical. If you're an adult, you're hypocritical.

AlexYeah.

MerlinThat's it.

AlexIt's the whole... I mean, I buy an enormous amount of stuff on Amazon, and I think their practices are disgusting. And that's an easy one to point out. But I truly don't understand the controversy amongst that Harris thing. It's like, I was in her corner when it's like, oh, yeah, she sounds like a really tough badass boss. And then once all of these staffers came forward, like, no, this woman, whenever anyone uses the word unstable to talk about a woman yeah red flags go up but yeah uh she doesn't seem stable

Merlini don't want that okay i got one for you i got one for you here's the one it's the lady it's the lady on my lock screen right now nancy pelosi like depending on what day and in what context you ask me about nancy pelosi i'm in a very different opinions do i think that she is going to drive the most progressive agenda of what people in my camp might want to see i do not But I think she's a fucking baller. And I think she's going to push back against the most damaging parts of what this executive branch is able to do. And I'm so glad they got her rather than somebody who's in their first term of Congress to get voted in as the Speaker of the House.

I think she's doing a great job at what she's doing. I think there's lots of stuff she does that's not great, but it's fucking politics. And like she's like, do you want to have somebody that should be somebody likable that you want to have a beer with? Is that who you want? Like you hire an attorney because you play racquetball with them? No, you want somebody who's a bulldog. And she's my bulldog right now, even though she does stuff that I don't love. Does that make sense?

AlexYeah, absolutely. I like the color gray, and I don't understand why people are shying away from it. It makes me sad.

MaxI would say in the case of Camel Harris and the weed story, that it's a hard thing to say.

AlexIt was just so dumb. Well, it's funny.

MaxAside from that, it's very funny. It's funny. It is. And I feel like both, I think it's possible that, I actually think it's not, I think like one of the bad things about Twitter culture and like take culture is like it's so binary. Like you just have to like pick a side. And it actually like, in this case, like both things are true. Like it probably did get noticed more, this instance, this moment of hypocrisy or silliness or whatever. You know, like when she was like Job from Arrested Development, like it got noticed more because she was a woman. If she was a man, maybe people wouldn't have noticed.

It wouldn't have stood out as much. They would have been more forgiving. But people did seize on it more because she's a woman.

MerlinShe's going to be facing this every single day. I mean, somebody else said this, but like she's on the one hand, she's being criticized. But it could be by the very same person. One person says, oh, is she black enough to say that she's black? But that's before we even get to the part where like, well, is she now, is it viable for a black woman to be running in the White House? And it's like she's fucked no matter what from that point of view.

Maxbut it's but but what i'm saying is both both things are true here like it is being she is getting this thing is being noticed it is sexist and it is also funny but also like yes it is very funny she did it and she shouldn't have done it like it's and and i would prefer and and and also i'm allowed to prefer a candidate that doesn't sort of have these sort of gaffes and isn't so desperate to be liked and isn't so isn't trying so hard to to put an image out of themselves like I'm allowed to want that even if it's sexist that everyone pounces on it when she does it.

In the same way with Klobuchar, it is probably sexist that this story is such a big deal for her, whereas lots of men are shitty bosses and it doesn't get noticed and it doesn't stand out. Steve Jobs was worshipped for his whole life even though he was the same kind of shitty boss.

MerlinMonster bully, yeah.

MaxBut also, it's also wrong no matter who does it. It's wrong when Steve Jobs does it and it's wrong when Amy Klobuchar does it. Like no one should throw shit at their employees.

AlexYeah. Yeah. And it sucks.

MerlinBut does that necessarily mean it's disqualifying? Not necessarily.

AlexI mean, that's the problem is, yes, it is disqualifying for a woman. And that sucks ass.

MerlinOh, OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I see your angle. Yes, that makes sense.

AlexIt sucks. Sucks, sucks, sucks. Yeah, that's probably true. But I still don't want it to.

MaxI mean, the thing with the primary, I mean, when you use words like disqualifying, No, it's not disqualifying. The issue with the primary is there's going to be two dozen candidates running, and I get to pick my favorite one. Everyone gets to pick their favorite one.

AlexI mean, it's not literally disqualified. No, what do you mean by that?

MerlinThat's another one of those words. Put that up there with problematic and controversial. It's another one of those words that describes how people feel about something without describing why they feel that way.

MaxYeah, so what I mean by that is the primary, you have, we have so many options to pick a nominee in the primary, and we're going to have more. There's more people who haven't even announced yet. and a little thing that you don't like about someone, it's fair to say, I don't like this little thing, and I'm going to move them down on my list, and someone else is going to move up on my list. And maybe it's something small, like they threw a stapler at their implicit. If Cory Booker threw a stapler at a staffer, I would move him down on my list too. But I think, I mean, I don't know.

MerlinHe loves everybody, so he would never do that.

MaxWell, it's hard to say because it didn't happen that way, but I would like to think that I would hold him to the same standard as Klobuchar about that. But that's the thing with primaries. You're allowed to like someone and dislike other people. And it's not it's and you can pick based on a wide array of options. Like I would prefer to vote for a woman candidate. I would prefer that the Democrats nominate a woman, but not more than I would prefer someone who supports universal health care. Like I'm going to I'm going to go with like like that's a breaking point for me. Like if they do not support some sort of single payer universal health care solution, they cannot earn my vote in the primary regardless of their gender.

MerlinWell, I think as long as they have a way to provide access, we'll all be fine. Affordable access is what I'm really looking for. Which means you're allowed to tell them you can't afford it.

MaxYeah. Americans are yearning for access to health care. Oh.

Follow-up. This is from Raw Story. Fox News host Pete Hegseth Explained on Sunday that he doesn't wash his hands Because quote germs are not a real thing Following a commercial break Fox and Friends co-host Jadidia Bila That can't be real Revealed that Hegseth had been munching on day old pizza That was left on set Quote pizza hut lasts for a long time Hegseth replied defending himself My 2019 resolution Is to say things on air that I say off air

I don't think I've washed my hands for 10 years. Really, I don't wash my hands ever. Quote, I inoculate myself, he continued. Germs are not a real thing. I can't see them. Therefore, they're not real. Hexeth argued that his unsanitary habit leaves him immune to sickness. Quote, these hands look pretty clean to me, he remarked.

MerlinI think he had some follow-up on this, though.

AlexYeah. Well, here is. Was there a double, triple turns out?

MerlinIt is a turns out.

AlexWhat's the turns out?

MerlinHe owned you. You're a lib and you just got owned.

AlexWell, I watched a clip and I'm like.

MerlinHe doesn't actually say. He later says he doesn't actually not wash his hands in 10 years.

AlexIt sounded like a joke, like a dumb joke. But I watched a clip and I'm like, he's just kidding, right? It's a funny thing.

MerlinWe're back to pro wrestling again.

AlexYeah.

MerlinWe're back. I mean, it's pro wrestling. They're performing, you know? And he's saying exactly the kind of thing that somebody in the audience would want to hear, which is like, you know, I know what's important in life. And you're like, that makes sense to me. I don't wash anything. My nuts have been congealed for years. Why would I ever wash? Just let it run down my leg.

MaxEncased in a bodily jelly. I make my own jelly. I make my own jelly. It's my home jam. It's been thoroughly, they're emulsified in a sort of...

MerlinI'm not going to let any corporation touch my balls.

MaxBody jelly.

MerlinThat's daddy's jelly. Do you like that? You like the sound of that? Daddy's jelly? Moistened, moistened screen, shifty jelly.

MaxThat could be a product line for us, Daddy's Jams and Jellies.

MerlinDaddy's Jams and Jellies. There's a little daddy in all of them.

MaxOh, my God.

MerlinUh-huh. From our lid to your kid.

MaxYou know what? File this away. I really think that we could get some mileage out of Daddy's Jams and Jellies.

AlexI agree. I agree.

MaxCan we launch with Daddy's Jelly, though? What about Daddy's? I mean, okay.

MerlinIs that the minimum viable jelly?

MaxNow, I could see a lot of room for growth here, because we could also get into, you know, in the same aisle, we could have daddy's nut butters.

MerlinOh, sure. It's a subclass of daddy's spread. You get a crock of daddy's spread.

MaxYou know, I think we're having a big laugh here. We're all making fun of it, but I think this is a good thing.

MerlinBut buffs and nut butters are going to take us to the top.

MaxI'm telling you, daddy's jellies and nut butters.

MerlinPeople love putting things on other things, especially when it's got daddy in it.

MaxI really think people would buy this.

MerlinYeah.

MaxYou know, get a little bit of daddy in your house today.

MerlinFamily leaves the house for a while. Daddy makes some jelly. He packages it up and sends it to Safeway.

MaxOkay. How about this? Okay. All right. Now, once we've got our supply line worked out, our logistics supply chain, now we're going to get in the freezer aisle. How about this? A pre-made daddy's sausage night.

MerlinOh, daddy's sausage. You also get daddy's nuggets. Daddy's sausage night. The kids are out of town. I got a moment to myself. I don't want to fight because it's daddy's sausage night.

Bring your own vinegar.

MaxIt's got your pre-shredded carrots or cabbage, I mean. Sure, sure. Yeah. Your slice sausage. It's all in the bag. What's the logo? Okay. What's it look like? Okay. Well, we're going to need a dad.

MerlinUh-huh. No, is it a guy from Necktie Twitter? Is it like a white guy in front of a flag with a necktie? Hi, I'm Robert Daddy. The men in my family have been making jelly for six generations.

MaxWell, I think he's wearing leather. I mean, I think we have to understand our audience here. I mean, of course.

MerlinI'm proud to be. Oh, that kind of daddy. Daddy's jelly.

MaxI mean, here's the thing. We're going to need mainstream distribution in, you know, middle America. So it's not going to be, it's not outright going to be.

MerlinBut we're going to invoke memories of family. You got daddy and then his little puppy boy. And like, we'll introduce that.

MaxHe's standing in front of the grill. He's standing in front of the grill. He's holding the spatula.

MerlinWe're going to have Bear's biscuits. Bear's biscuits. Moisten that biscuit.

MaxMoisten that biscuit with daddy's jelly.

MerlinThat's right. Hi, I'm Robert Bear.

MaxBut I think he's, I think at a minimum, he's not wearing a shirt. Let's stipulate that he's not wearing a shirt.

MerlinRight, right, right, right, right.

AlexDoes he have anything clamped onto his nipples?

MaxWell, I think you could probably make that out through the apron.

AlexOh, that's a great idea.

MaxIt's subtle. It's there if you're looking. It's a hanky code, okay? It's there if you're looking for it. Exactly.

MerlinBut it's full of the freshest fruits.

MaxWell, that could be our company name, too. The Daddy's Jellies could be a subsidiary of Hanky Code LLC. And that's got... And listen, what's good... Okay, why do we have a Shell Corporation based in the Bahamas? Well... What people don't realize, we also have... We have Make Candy Great again. Oh, yes! Okay, Office Hagrid.

AlexYep, yep. Right. Oh, and the Sauce Spa. This is a big.

MaxThese are all subsidiaries of Hanky Code LLC.

It just occurred to me that Amy Klobuchar should really be selling a stapler on her campaign. Like an Amy Klobuchar stapler on her campaign website. Oh, right. Like you could buy.

MerlinI realized that, you know, they got a different. Jeff's got a different snuffer every season. And I started thinking about that. I thought about the buffs. I thought about the idols. And I was like, what if they ever sell these things? And of course, there's a Wikia page that describes every snuffer.

MaxYeah, yeah.

MerlinIt's like Harry Potter, like buying a fucking broom.

MaxBut you remember in Harry... Yeah, he's got the Nimbus 2000 this year. It snuffs twice as efficiently. No, he, at the end of every season, they're like, if you want to buy authentic Survivor-like props, go to SurvivorAuctions.com.

MerlinOh, wow, really? You don't remember?

AlexYou don't watch the reunion show at the end?

MerlinWell, that's my least favorite episode. The last episode, I'm really into.

MaxKeith, tell me how it feels. How did it feel, Keith, when you got hit in the nuts and you broke your leg on that obstacle course? Let's take us back to that moment, Keith. How did it feel?

MerlinI like the second and third, fifth of every season. The first episode is useless, although it does set the context. I like when things really start to get rolling. and then they get into all the fucking family challenges and all this bullshit where they get to go have hoagies on an island and all this and I don't like that part. And I think the final council final episode is almost always really anticlimactic compared to what you've been seeing in the run up to that. Do you guys like the family stuff?

Do you guys like the family challenges?

AlexWell, okay. In defense of those, I think they've made them better now because usually there's an idol or some advantage on each of them because I think people are like, like if the characters who go aren't likable, you're kind of like, oh, all right.

MerlinBut your mom from Florida can't catch water in a bucket fast enough. It's like, give me a break.

AlexOh, that was so sad. Yeah, I don't like-

MerlinIt's so sad. Who was it? It was one of the real alpha guys kept screaming at his brother that one season because you have to throw the bucket of water through the air. They catch it and they have to fill the thing. And he was just fucking bullshit mad with his brother just screaming at him that he wasn't watering fast enough.

AlexYeah.

MerlinWant to see what you're playing for? You're playing for Daddy's Jelly. Worth playing for?

MaxA whole spread of breakfast breads, muffins, et cetera. Worth playing for?

MerlinHave a cup of Daddy's Nut Butter. So buy Roch and sponsored by Daddy.

MaxI've got an offer. You have to decide right now. You can jump off of that platform right now, and I will let you have one jar of Daddy's Nut Butter.

Alexthis is funny to seven people dig dug did everybody peanut butter on this challenge here comes a big gust of wind

Merlinoh boy those legs are wobbling daddy's still working on his puzzle honka tonka tribe really getting together two more pieces in their puzzle

Maxsure well listeners i really appreciate that uh you listen up until this point check out uh check out uh my brother my brother me the macro right family podcast

Merlinyou guys want to yahoo um so anyway that's been a great episode we'll see you in the after show

AlexOh my god Did everybody peanut butter

MerlinOh my god I have a story I have an anecdote

AlexOkay proceed

MerlinI downloaded Challenge this week comes from Alex To read the M.T. Anderson young adult Novel Feed

AlexFeed

MerlinFeed

AlexAlex you're going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting

MaxOn this segment

AlexMay I have an opening statement or do you have a Pre-statement anecdote

MerlinI have an anecdote about how hard it that I think will relate to you guys.

AlexAll right, all right.

MerlinI downloaded the sample to my Kindle and I read a page.

AlexThe sample, the sample. Okay, I'm sorry.

MerlinI got the sample on my Kindle and I went, fuck, I got to read a fucking book. And then I went, okay, okay. I should probably go ahead and buy this. So I read two pages and then I bought it. And then I thought, you know what? This would be even better if I got the Audible book too.

Speaker AOh no.

MerlinBecause now, you've never done this? Like, the more you don't do something, the more money you spend to make yourself try to do it. And I read three pages.

AlexI don't know if there's anybody here who got it.

MerlinYou guys probably can't relate to that kind of problem, where you can't lose weight unless you buy an electronic device.

MaxDo you think Jeff Bezos gets, do you think he gets, he's on his jet and he gets a push notification every time someone is like, oh, my God, Andy bought the Audible book? Oh, man. We got a trifecta here.

Merlinyeah

MaxAlex read it right

Alexoh yeah I've read this book

Maxnow Alex got Alex went so far as to get me the book and I to be honest I just got too busy I don't even I didn't even try I just got too busy and I didn't do it

MerlinI read it enough to make some clockwork orange jokes in our super secret private text channel and then that took me spinning off in another direction I never cracked it again I'm so sorry Alex I I 100% peanut butter but I did spend $30 I

MaxI fully I I fully intend to read this book I like I have it now. Oh, me too. It's going to definitely go in my virtual pod. I have a flight on Friday. I'm going to take it with me and read it on the flight.

AlexMan. Okay. All right. Here's what I didn't make an assumption, but let's say I was aware that this could be a peanut butter situation. However, thank you to everybody who, I know you don't like when I talk to the audience, but you know what? Everyone was really not like.

MaxCan I just summarize the challenge very quickly? Oh, God. Yes. So Alex challenged us to read a book. Read a book. It's a young adult book called Feed. The premise is there's this group of teenagers. They're walking home through a construction site at night. There's an alien crash.

AlexAnd the alien gives them a strange cube.

MerlinOne of them turns into a sexy alligator.

MaxIt gives them the power to morph.

AlexGod damn it.

MaxOkay. Right.

AlexSee, that's probably the book I should have been reading when I was 12.

MaxNot this book. Now they go to the, okay, now chapter two, they go to the zoo. They all acquire the DNA of some animals. What happens to Tobias? He sees the hawk, the noble hawk. He takes the DNA of the hawk. This is going to be important later in the book.

MerlinYeah. Chapter three. When do we meet the sexy lady that everybody likes? When do we meet her? The sexy lady that everybody likes. Isn't there a sexy lady in Animorphs that we all like that all the boys are always checking out?

AlexYeah. Yeah. She turns into a dolphin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rachel? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

MaxShe's like a badass like warrior.

AlexYeah. That's why she's hot. Yes.

MaxYes. I was like Cassie because she came up with nonviolent solutions to the Animorphs problem.

AlexShe's not a warrior. Thank you for your bravery. All right. Dig Dug. The challenge was to read Feed, the young adult book by N.T. Anderson.

Speaker AI said this three times.

AlexAnd the premise was this was a book that I, one of the books that I remember, there was a before and after in my life. So I'm 12 years old. Well, I still do this. I judge books by their cover. It seemed to have a really cool cover to me. And even now, not 20 years, well, how many ever years later, it has a very similar cover. And it taught me some things. This was the first book that I read. And at the end of it, I felt completely hollow and devastated and empty.

Two, it was my first thing where I was like, oh, boys truly are terrible. This is not just something that's in my head.

MaxWow, wow, wow. I'm glad I didn't read this.

AlexMe too. Three, three. This was the first time that I saw the Manic Pixie Dream Girl archetype in media that was like not quite deconstructed, but it was it was very self-aware. And it's like, oh, this is a sad and bad thing that exists. And then for adults are terrible. And five, capitalism is terrible.

MerlinWow. This was an important book for you.

AlexThis was a very it was. And it's super like you said, you start reading it. There's all of this. I don't want to give away too much of the book, but imagine Twitter, but, you know, jacked into your head all the time.

MerlinYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

AlexBut it follows the life of this one teen who's kind of a dick bag, and he doesn't really change that much, which is, you know, not typical in, like, children's book. There's, you know, the conflict, the hero's journey. He's asked to change. He changes, blah, blah, blah. and this the ending is just so dev i don't even want to say devastating because it's wow i can't wait to read this doesn't really sound no i don't think i i don't think you guys

Merlinare gonna like it is it a little bit cyber punky i mean in the sense of like i mean oh yeah it's

Alexsuper like it's it's very stereotypical someone rip a computer out of their body and it's kind of a body horror way no oh oh there is serious body horror but they're not ripping a circuit

Maxout of their skin. I feel like every YA book about a cyberpunk thing, someone's got to rip a computer out of their skin.

AlexYeah, no, this is way more gross, actually. Like, it's very upset. It's like, this is, it's kind of like The Scorpion King where I am shocked that this was, it was a book for children.

MerlinIs that the, is that that movie with The Rock?

AlexNo, god damn it. Or House of the Scorpion, thank you.

MerlinOkay, House of the Scorpion King. When he wears gray sweatpants, people cross the street.

AlexIt's, yeah.

MerlinBones are cold. My heart is hot. And sometimes I wake up driving a stolen car.

AlexSorry.

MerlinSorry. And so, but it's moving. And does the internet-y, because this is what, early like 2000s this came out?

Alex2000. It was written 2001, published early 2002.

MerlinOkay. Never forget. But the-

AlexIt was actually delayed because of that. Yeah.

MerlinOh no, that sucks. Jay-Z's album. Jay-Z's best album came out on that day. Did you know that?

Alexdidn't the blueprint come out on 9-11 blueprint 9-11 I did not know that that's very sad as well yeah uh yeah I I really don't know if you guys would like it because it is fairly obnoxious in a way that uh I I mean yeah it's a it's very clockwork orgy especially the first part um yeah I read the first three pages for sure all right yeah it's the first part is I don't know what to say other than it's a obnoxious in an intentional way and and like yeah if people actually want to

read it i don't want to give away too much but it's also a very fast read it's like two hours who do you recommend it for uh people who are my age and enjoyed dystopian cyberpunk stuff when they were younger like this this does have a nostalgia factor for me for sure but it holds up upsettingly well like oh no that's the worst that's that's and it's it's very because you know like i i still read some children's books like the hunger games and stuff like that uh and i still

think this is better than a lot of that um but yeah man i don't know i've tried to stop reading too many dystopian science fiction books and trying to read like solar punk and happy shit But yeah Also if you want like an actual really good book to read I'm going to recommend A steel max recommendation The calculating the stars A lady astronaut

MaxThe calculating stars

AlexWait the calculating stars

MaxThe fault in our calculator

AlexGod damn it The calculating stars by Mary Robinette Kowal

MerlinIt's written by that one guy you like from YouTube The fault in our calculator right

AlexGod damn it

MaxYeah that's where when you write 8008

Merlinfive it doesn't say boobs yeah it says he's like shell it says upside down they were on my bim bam once the two go two brothers with the brothers yeah yeah the neuromancer neuromancer wow that

Maxcame out in 1984 look at that yeah well my pick of the week is the hork bajir chronicles now this is an important prequel to the animorphs universe okay okay okay i've actually never read those

Merlinoh well there i have them in my what's called horkheimer horkheimer adorno what's it called

MaxI think that's the Dialectic of Enlightenment by K.A. Applegate. Please email me if you got that joke.

MerlinOkay. Listen, I— Well, I recently read this thing by Gramsci. It was really short. It was on a very small piece of paper.

MaxI own every Animorphs book in the office. I guess I see the— Hot. I've got the Andalite Chronicles. I've got the Megamorphs, the Alternomorphs. I've got them all.

AlexOh, wow. Yeah, I've read the Alternomorphs, not the Megamorphs.

MerlinDo you have a Morphsona?

AlexYeah, well— I would be the Dolphin.

MaxI recently discovered that the Animorphs fandom is like

MerlinIt's your dolphin nature

MaxIs like thriving because of the furry community They've really like kept it alive And I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy these books But if you do want to read them you can google Animorphs PDFs and they're just They're just there You can just get them all Animorphs I think do we already do fanfic for that

AlexI feel like we did Are they pregnant Animorphs Impreg Animorphs Yeah

MaxYeah that's pretty good

Alexbreak yeah uh dolphin seems to use toxic buffer puffer fish to get high isn't that awesome takes

Maxa hit off the puffer yeah isn't that awesome well good for them the thing is the puffer fish the puffer fish was only 10 years old when that dolphin was born he claims to be taking taking miss granger he claims to be smoking thick dank clouds of puffer fish but you know i think he's

MerlinOnly pedophiles with excuses. Backpacks outside.

Show notes

Transcript

119. Adult Magic

Show notes

Transcript

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