27. The Bentley Boys

AlexThis is Do By Friday, the weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, watch some superhero movies.

Oh, hi Merlin. How's it going? Max beat me into the studio today because I was getting some popcorn and some powders.

MaxDidn't we say we were going to start at noon?

AlexYeah.

MaxYeah.

AlexYeah. I also had to pee.

MerlinVery rude of both of you to be late. Sorry. Listen, I should apologize. I'm really sorry. Sorry I wasn't technically ready to start. Very rude. Mark Newsome hourglass for Hoodinky.

MaxDid you see when, do you remember that photo of the, I believe it was a protest in Louisiana where a black woman was sort of, I think she was sort of putting her hands up in like a stop gesture and walking towards the police. Oh, was she wearing like a cool dress? Yes. and they like recoiled backwards and it was an amazing photograph. There was a take on Twitter that I thought was really funny where someone posted that photo and they were like, this is so powerful. She literally stopped them in their tracks.

The police froze as though time itself stopped. Like she's a scarlet witch. Yeah. And I was like, whoa, it's called a photograph. That's how photographs work. It is a powerful moment of protest But also that is how a photograph works.

Speaker AIn this moving photograph, this old man holds up the leading tower of Pisa.

MaxIt's not actually like in Harry Potter where the photo shows you the movement, right? So of course they're frozen in time because it's a picture that's its nature. Similarly, in the Mark Newsome designed hourglass, I really enjoyed how he was like, just by turning it over, you can start and stop time itself.

Alexcan you guys give some context like is this a famous person or a famous very famous design he's a very famous and good designer that's and i thought it was a joke and i'll add that this

Maxhourglass is really beautifully designed it's a cool design object i wouldn't buy it but it's

Merlinit's very expensive a little bit costly just a little that's the of course when you see marco and i guess later gruber linked to this you go there you're like oh god it's gonna be a funny thing and you're like okay obviously the punchline is going to be that this thing costs five thousand

Alexdollars and you get to the bottom was it twelve thousand dollars twelve well and that's at first i'm like oh twelve hundred dollars i can convince max to buy this somehow i'm like oh no commas

Speaker Awell it's a small price for controlling time itself i buy clocks just to throw them away I control time

Maxif I remove my mailbox I stop getting mail I mean one of the reasons it's so funny is that this is a piece of art he's made and I have no problem with someone selling a piece of art for $12,000 whatever but he's not talking about it like art he's talking about it like a consumer product where he's like we worked with the finest artisans to mill the glass in the perfect brass tiny micro balls it's just like nobody just make it a piece of art

Speaker ABut, chamfered edges.

MerlinAlso, I mean, yes, the shocking part is the price. But shit like this, have you never been to a museum store? Like any store at a museum, there will be stuff in there that is farcically. I mean, you've got to put that. There's probably a name for this. I bet Nick Kakonas could give us a name for this. It's worth putting something on your menu that is flatly, whether it's a wine or some kind of a special dish for the table. This was huge in the dot-com era. You had to have something on there that was a knowingly ridiculous ask.

MaxA duck. A what? A duck. A duck. A duck. When you do client work, when you're doing design client work, there's this thing called a duck where it's like you give the client four options. And the thing is, the client always wants to make a change, right? You're never going to give the client work and they're going to be like, don't change anything. It's perfect how it is. Because they want to feel like they're involved and they're doing something and show you that they're smart. So they're always going to pick one or two things to change. So some designers put what's called a duck in one of the options, which is something that's like comically bad.

You know, like you put like if you're pitching McDonald's like ads for the new Whopper, like one of them depicts 9-11. You put a 9-11 dick in there. Yeah, it's a Whopper flying into two erect penises and it says never forget. What do you think? We can't wait to see what you're going to do with this. And then Michael Keaton, the founder of McDonald's He looks at that and he goes No way, are we doing the 9-11 dicks That's extremely inappropriate That's an excellent decision And then you say, you know what, that's a good call

We were going to stand by that But in the interest of moving forward I think we can let that concept go And it sounds like we're all agreed that we should go with the other one

MerlinI just sent you guys a photo of the dinner I made the other night I almost sent it to you while I was making it

AlexWhat the fuck

MerlinWhat am I looking at?

AlexI thought you were coming out as a serial killer, and I briefly got really excited. No. Daddy's hungry.

MerlinSo, the duck. See, now, when I was doing client work, I used to think I was being, when I was a younger fella, I would always give, like, three designs. But I feel like I learned, if you give anybody more than one thing to look at, they're going to make a Frankenstein. Because it's the other smart thing to do. And this, you have to understand.

MaxOh, my God. the worst moment in my life when the client goes it's like peanut butter and chocolate. Two great tastes that taste great together. And I'm like excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom and kill myself.

MerlinYeah, let's go with the orb design and put that in. We'll set that in Optima on there. It's like, oh. Thank you, Johnny Ive.

AlexHey, that's a beautiful building. Oh, that thing? It's a beautiful So those are chicken apple

Merlinsausages.

AlexYou lost me. You don't look

Merlinat things.

MaxWhat is this? I thought this was like a picture of the Avatar people from the movie having sex with each other.

AlexNo, these are their tails. These are toilet fingers. It's my little bespoke sausage forest.

MaxAll right, what do I have here? I see this is a picture very overexposed, and we are looking at a cast iron pan, and there's sort of a forest of mushrooms below, and then a bunch of half sausages erect in defiance of God's will.

Just gravity and God's will. They're sort of, it's sort of obscene.

MerlinThey're like curved a little bit. You think it's sort of obscene?

MaxYeah.

MerlinYeah. So I made the Adels chicken apple sausage, as I do. I prepared four of them. And I realized there's a problem we've been running into, which is that they don't get all the way warmed up in the middle. And now, also, we haven't talked about this. I started cooking with lard, and it's changed everything. It's changed everything. You get a serious sear. But I realized I want to cut them in half. Why is that?

MaxIs that because it has a higher smoke point?

MerlinSure. It cooks things, and they get crunchy. Like when I do my sous vide ribeyes and then toss them in with a little bit of lard. Oh, sister. So anyway, I cut the little wieners in half, and I wanted to toast up the ends a little bit. It really is a horrible, horrible abortion to look at. And then we had extra mushrooms, so I threw those in.

AlexIs this something your daughter will eat?

MerlinMm-mm.

AlexThank God. I didn't think so. Thank God. It's been not.

MerlinI prepared a special meal for you. Wear this smock and headdress. So where were we? Oh, yeah, but yeah, the museum stuff. But yeah, you called it the duck. Okay, so getting back. Anyway, we don't have to keep going on. You've got other things to read. But it is funny how, like, I don't know, you get like a Saudi tourist or something. Somebody's going to come to town. They're like, what is the most costly thing in this museum? You go, oh, it's the fucking hourglass. You're like, very good. I will have four. and then they go home and be like, I bought you the most costly thing in the museum store.

Because somebody will buy it. But that said, there's going to be a hundred of these. So you guys are going to have to really get in there if you want this.

MaxAll right. Well, how do I send you? Should I send some stuff to the text message thread? Is that how we're doing it nowadays? Well, if you use the Google Doc, you could do that. All right. I'm sending you. This is the new car that I think I should buy for myself. What do you guys think about this? Oh, Bentley makes nice cars. So this is a Bentley. This is the Bentegia Falconry by Moliner. So this is a special custom Bentley that you use for falconry. I assume it's used by like Saudi princes who travel.

Used by the staff of Prince Zapier's staff. A natural continuation of the thinking that created the successful Bentegia fly fishing by Moliner. this falconry kit showcases the attention to detail and innovative approach to bringing a customer's passions together with their personalized Bentley.

The Bentegia Falconry by Mulliner is an exquisite installation designed to house everything you need for a successful falconry expedition. Fitted into the boot of your Bentegia, handcrafted by Bentley's bespoke commissioning division. You can't stay out of the boot of my Bentegia. It is at once practical while delivering the pinnacle of luxury that Mulliner promises. Oh, my goodness. Each Molliner falconry set is made to order and features two bespoke units, which fit seamlessly in the rear of the Bentayga and keep every piece of equipment you will need

for a successful falconry outing to hand. It features two bespoke units. They're using bespoke twice in the same paragraph. A master flight station and a refreshment case that are fitted to a movable tray for easy access. Now, also just to clarify, the refreshments are clearly for you, not the falcon. Okay, that was my first question. It's like bullet thermoses and two tumblers. Yeah. Right? It's for the bourbon that you're not allowed to drink in Saudi Arabia. What? Wait a minute. Inside the master flight station, you will find a stowage tray with individual compartments

which can hold your GPS bird tracking unit, binoculars, and handcrafted leather bird hoods and gauntlets.

MerlinThe little drawer, it looks like a jewelry case. It's got little tiny hoods.

MaxIt's got like a storage facility, binoculars. Oh my God, is that what those are? They're like little BDSM hoods for the falcon. For the falcon gimp. Oh my fucking God. What is a GPS bird tracking unit?

AlexI mean, I think it's pretty self-explanatory.

MerlinIf you click up at the top, so you see in the breadcrumb path, you got home, World of Bentley. Click on Mulliner and you can see some of their other special designs that they have.

Speaker AOh my goodness.

MerlinThere's one here that's a celebration of Britishness. Is that the flying spur? That takes interior luxury to another level.

MaxOh my God.

AlexOh my God.

MerlinThese are amazing.

AlexNo, no.

MerlinMulliner features. Three new refrigerated coolers.

MaxThe Mulliner Limited Edition's Mulsane Blue Train, a tribute to the spirit of the Bentley boys. The Mulliner picnic hamper.

Speaker ABentayga

Merlinthe world's first genuine luxury SUV was created to take exquisite luxury

Speaker Ait's not an SUV it's not an SUV

Maxat the wheel that day was Captain Wolf Berantaro the most dashing of all Bentley boys at the Carlton Hotel in Cannes he accepted a wager that he could beat the Calais Merendarene or Blue Train back to Calais and better still he would be at his gentleman's club in London before the train even reached its destination. He was by just four minutes and history was made. I want to be the most dashing of all the Bentley boys, which I will be when I drive around with my falconry car.

AP, in Saudi Arabia, people with knowledge of the planning for Trump's trip say that the caterers are planning to offer the president steak and ketchup alongside the lamb and hefty portions of rice on the menu all of the meat will have been butchered by sharia compliant halal manner as per islamic custom that's nice wherever the president goes in the world he still gets his well-done steak and ketchup

Merlinhe's fatigued yeah he's he's he's exhausted somebody i read somewhere there was a uh on political twitter someone was talking about there was there was one well actually guy who jumped in to say why he does this. Did you see that, though? There was one fellow who steaksplained this by saying that, well, actually, if I were the kind of person that owed this sort of, first of all, I'd be very concerned about the safety of the foods, and I'd want to make sure that it's well cooked, but also a well-done steak is very difficult to do. So that is personally the steak that I would test when I visit one of my facilities.

And it's like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. You know what you ask for? You ask for a medium-rare steak like an adult, and then you see how that turned out.

Maxgetting a perfect medium rare steak is really really difficult well how is getting a well-done steak in what world is that more difficult than a medium rare steak medium is really hard to do yeah a well done i mean anyone any fucking idiot can make a well-done steak you just cook it until it's black and there's no and it's you could bake it i mean you could do fucking anything to it you

Merlinjust hit it with a torch for six hours there's nothing to it i mean there's no and that's different from say like if you want like a like a pittsburgh or uh you know what's the one the black and uh black and blue right or signon or whatever there's all these different ways those all mean things that means you still want a crusty outside but you want it to be say cold in the middle all those things are i i've i've found very difficult to do and i've watched a lot of food tv

Maxshows trump i think he's not taking his caveman powder because the thing is once you connect with the ancient traditions of the caveman you don't want your steak well done you want a medium rare You want a little bit of, you know, you want the juice and the blood.

MerlinThey marked that as a turning point in the Paleolithic era when we very first emerged from our caves and went to the online store to get powder, creating with this a whole new set of ancient traditions and rites.

MaxSpeaking of which, I've just, I have not actually tried this caveman powder yet, and I just opened it, and it sort of, an aerosolized, like, blast of powder came, like, toughing out. You got it too.

Speaker AYou got cocked by your powder.

MaxAs soon as I unscrewed it, it just came straight into my face. It was offensive. All right. I'm going to just dump a scoop of this.

Speaker AYou go listen back.

MerlinI think Alex and I, I know I very much had that same experience. On two separate occasions, I opened this and was covered with powder. I'm going to try opening it and see if I can do it without getting it everywhere.

AlexAll right.

MaxIt's going into the water. Oh, God.

AlexThis is very exciting.

MaxSo they provided this little scoop for you, huh? That's the right amount to have?

AlexYeah. I really missed out on an opportunity, Merlin. You know how it comes with a little scoop? I could have replaced that scoop with a giant ass one. It was like a fucking sand pail.

MaxWow, it's not really dissolving into this water. It sure doesn't.

AlexYou got to get in there.

MaxYeah, really get in there. It's really clumping up in there. Keep going.

Speaker AYou're not done.

MaxThe powder is too fine. Oh, it's all floating to the top. It's such a diarrhea-like consistency.

MerlinIt's so easy to sit at President Obama's house and listen to other people drink the powder. it's a lot more

Alexit's not that bad no it's not that bad you haven't even gotten into it yet

Speaker Aget the stevia really get in there get the stevia oh my god is stevia hitting you yet oh jesus oh it's bitter oh my god it comes in waves for a powder here's the thing It tastes hot. If you don't know the finger, it's hot. Why does it taste hot?

MaxFor a powder that doesn't do anything, it has no benefit that they claim or advertise. You'd think that the least they could do is make it taste good. At least it should taste like one of those powdered chocolate milks.

MerlinWell, yeah, exactly. When you go to a GNC and buy one of those energy drinks, that's really just a bunch of... My eyes are watering. It's foul.

MaxIt tastes awful.

AlexIt's not that bad. Alex. Okay, hold on.

Speaker AIt tastes awful. It's really bad. It's bitter. I'm teary. I'm teary. It tastes like... Why does it taste hot? Put a little... Wet your finger. Stick it in there. Just a tiny bit. Does it taste like it's been warmed? It's like bone meal.

AlexNo, it's... Okay, so this is... Oh, Jesus. Has anybody actually done this three times a day?

MaxI haven't even tried it until now. Fuck!

AlexSo Merlin, this is what I've been doing. I have in front of me a spoon that's about half filled with the powder, and you just eat it like the cinnamon challenge.

MaxOh, no! No! Oh, she's going. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm going to be the one that vomits this week. Oh, my God. I also want to state for the record that two weeks ago when we did the coffee challenge, Alex vomited in the middle of the challenge and then edited herself out vomiting.

AlexSee, I just did all the powder. Oh, God, it's in my teeth. You just swallowed the powder.

MaxI may vomit. This is making me very nauseous.

MerlinI felt so weird. I can't get into it, but I'm just going to say that when I woke up the next morning, I felt so strange. I probably had a little too much CBD oil, but I basically woke up, and I felt like I was tripping. And I don't know if it was the powder.

MaxCan I ask you about the CBD oil?

MerlinJust a tiny, tiny bit.

MaxAre you doing this, and if so, are you discussing it on a podcast, and which podcast is it?

MerlinI am. I don't want to talk about it.

Speaker AThat's why I'm asking you what podcast I should listen to to hear your thoughts on it.

MerlinI do a podcast with a person who would not describe himself as a CBD advocate. But he seems to think that this stuff has almost unlimited health benefits with almost zero risk of any kind according to science. and has been basically suggesting people there's really no toxic dose of this. I'm like, stop saying that. I mean, setting aside the litigious nature of what happens if somebody eats your powder and dies,

don't advise people to just – it's not like water. I mean, even water is not safe at high amounts, it turns out. But, yeah, I've tried it. I can't really tell if it's working really. Yeah, you all right, buddy?

AlexAre you getting a third wave?

MerlinIt comes in waves. It tastes hot.

AlexSee, you have to think about it as, basically what I did was an edible, a marijuana edible, let's say. I just got it all at once, and it's going to hit me later, but it's much easier to consume.

MaxWhy did it come with, in the box, with this little jar of caveman powder, it came with a little pamphlet on jury nullification? Citizen's rule book. So this comes with this.

MerlinIt basically looks like a religious tract. It's not even the registration on it. It's not right. It's a little bit wrong. It's got staples. It's very, very poorly printed. Rights come from God, not the state, begins the book.

Speaker AHandbook for jurors, Give Me Liberty. Oh, and then OC, and it comes with the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution. It's fucking crazy. Who could ever read this and be convinced by it?

MaxIt has like the articles of the Constitution in it. It's like, what are you supposed to take away from this? It has like Bible quotes and the Constitution in it.

MerlinLike the Bible itself, I think it's mainly, you know, it's for showing, not for growing. I think you're supposed to walk around with this and wave it at people at the subway if they give you any shade.

Speaker AI have the rules of the citizen here. Jury tampering? A jury has rights, powers, and duties.

MaxOne thing that I found really interesting about this is on the cover, there's a sort of old-timey halftone print. And you've got three sort of revolutionary-era patriots with a huge flag waving in the background. And one of the guys, the one in the foreground, he's marching forward. He's sort of goose-stepping forward with his knee-height socks and his petticoat. He's playing the flute. Very intimidating. And then he has a drum and drum.

Speaker AIt's the classic image of the fife and drum guys. It's like from a famous painting, isn't it? Oh, please. I don't think so.

MaxI've never seen it before. You're kidding. But the guy with the flute, he has a head dressing on. He has a head wound. Look at him. He's demented.

Speaker AWell, he's dressed for battle. He's got a head injury. But he's no gun. He's playing a flute.

MaxYeah. But do you see what I'm saying? I think that once you have the head injury, the citizen's rule book starts to make a lot more sense.

AlexSo have you never been, man, I'm saying, so have either of you been to a county fair in your life? These little pamphlets are everywhere.

MaxThe judiciary of the United States is the subtle core of sappers and miners constantly working underground to undermine the foundations of our confederated fabric. The federal judiciary, an irresponsible body for impeachment is scarcely a scarecrow. This works so well in vocal voice. Gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until all shall be usurped from the states and the government of all be considered into one.

And then it just has like random, it has that crazy like syntax of like conservative idiots where they make every fourth word like bold and uppercase. Yes.

MerlinYes.

MaxNewsweek. Newsweek. The New York Times reports that ahead of Trump's trip to Saudi Arabia, foreign dignitaries have been sharing tips on the best way to deal with the president. A set of clear rules have emerged, according to the report. Keep everything short. Don't assume Trump knows the country's history. And make sure to compare him favorably with former President Barack Obama. Perhaps most important, leaders were reminded to praise Trump for winning the Electoral College in November, something he has repeatedly stressed for months since taking office. I'm having a lot of trouble getting through this because as I'm moving my tongue, I can taste the goddamn powder.

It tastes you're in the fourth wave bitter sweet. I think it's in my sinuses. Foreign leaders were also urged to try to ignore comments Trump made during his presidential campaign and to stay, quote, in regular touch with the president, according to The Times.

MerlinThe the strategy of they were talking about this on somewhere this morning. Just that strategy of people like I guess Merkel was one of the first to realize she was pretty stony and cold with him, but realized she's she's not talking to, you know, Werner Herzog. Like she can really, you can get this guy on your side. And the phrase I've heard people using this week in referring to lots of things is the deliverable, right? So there's always the deliverable. And I think of deliverables as like, you know, that's the assets or the things that you give to a client.

Deliverable can also can be like, this is the thing that I get to hold up as having done, as something I've won, something I've achieved. And you just need to give him a deliverable. You let him hold a sword. You let him touch the orb. You give him a pretty necklace. Or you let him sign something and then hold it up to the cameras like a big boy. And it's just another little piece of the puzzle is that if you flatter him, specifically, people are saying this is the go-to strategy now is to specifically compliment him on his extraordinary and completely unpredictable win in the election, in the electoral college.

And especially how he's doing so much better than Hillary would have. Are you doing okay, buddy?

AlexYeah. Just take a spoonful. You did not fulfill your own challenge.

MaxNope. I failed this one. You cocked yourself. This powder cocked me so hard.

AlexI've had at least four portions.

MaxI may throw up. We'll see if I get to the end of this episode before I throw up.

AlexIs it hot in here? Are you sweating? Well, as we have designed it to turn off the air conditioning.

MaxI'm not well.

AlexWell, you did take a lot of... I think that you're sweating out any estrogen you have because you just put a ton of testosterone in you.

MerlinIt's a purge, Alex. He's purging all of his femininity.

MaxTommy and I had a call. So we get a call from, we get an email from Google, from Google AdWords a couple weeks ago. And Google was like, hey, we have a new program where we identify like businesses that have room for like a lot of growth. And then we help them get started on Google AdWords with like, like for free, like we'll give you like lots of like data and analytics and help you like get started. And we want to like roll Secret Hitler into this program as one of our like pilot things. And I'm very suspicious of online advertising. I don't think that paying for online advertising works.

I don't think anyone ever like purposefully clicks on an ad.

MerlinWell, also, I mean, maybe to be fair, not for most people for most purposes.

MaxI, I, I, right. I mean, I, I think it works for like locksmiths is like one of the big categories. But, you know, the thing is, if it works for your category, you know, if people are Googling like locksmith in my area right now, right. And then you're going to make a quick rash snap decision. That's like the most expensive search. So it costs a billion dollars. So I don't even know that it's still cost effective to do it. Like the market kind of takes care of that. But anyway, for like, you know, getting people to know about your board game or whatever, I don't think paid advertising really on search like really works.

So anyway, we went with this guy. I was very, very skeptical. And essentially it's like a program where they like get you to spend some minimum. You commit to some minimum. They get you on Google AdWords. They like convince you that it's working. And then.

Speaker AThe fifth wave. Oh, Jesus.

MaxAnd then they try, and then they, I guess it's like the first one's free, but then you're like hooked and you spend increasing amounts of money. And I was very skeptical of this, and I was like, and I asked the guy, and I was like, in all the customers that you've ever worked with, you know, the dozens of people that you've worked with in this program, at the end of the period of them trying this thing, have you ever recommended to someone that they spend less money on ads? And the guy was like, no. and I was like I was like do you think that's a concerning sign that you're just sort of pushing

people into ad buying and he's like well it works for everyone and the other thing I was like at one point I was like so I was like this is like I was like it's a little bit like uh like alternative medicine like you know the patient takes the alternative medicine and then the new age doctor is always like well you know only three things can happen either the problem you get better you don't or you die yeah exactly the problem gets worse it stays the same or it gets better if it gets better, you say, we cured it. If it stays the same, you go, we arrested it. If it gets worse, you go, you need more of it. Like there's never a scenario where you don't need more alternative

Merlinmedicine. Did you see their announcement this week though, about the new stuff that they're doing, the kind of chilling new stuff they're doing? No. Oh, this sounds fun. I can't find the article I read yesterday, but it did inspire me to go in and make sure I'm opted out of lots of things and that I went. Oh yeah. So basically I, this is from memory cause I don't have it in front of me. If you can find it, Alex put it up. But they are doing some dark magic with basically being able to take two to three pieces of information about you and be able to, the basic

idea is they're going to be able to show credit card activity based on how you've interacted with an ad to be able to show that the ad is working. And so I guess there are some ways that you can sort of avoid this. If you go into the privacy section, I would say shut off the tailored ads, like all of that stuff. But like, I sure would like to learn a little more about this. Have you

Alexheard about this, Alex? I have. It seems I have a feeling it's going to be one of those things that they're like, oh, roll back, roll back. And then in five years when the AI, like their their faux AI knows everything about us, we won't care anymore. I have a quick thought experiment though for you guys. Let's say, you know, the Google ad searches that get clicked on the most are taxis in my area and locksmiths in my area. Have you ever thought about just in order to better humanity, buying up some of those, and then you drive up to the person

and you're wearing a Steve Bannon mask or something, and you're like, that's why you never click Google ads, and that's why you never leave a note. That went a very different way than I had expected.

MerlinI thought you were going to say have things about saving humanity, but like buying mesothelioma rates.

AlexNo, but you should never click on the first locksmith. You should never click on the first cab thing. That's how you get ants.

MaxNo, but anyone who's ever clicked on one of those locksmiths that pays to advertise, it's always like everyone has so many horrifying stories.

Speaker AHuge scam. It's always like a fucking serial killer.

MaxExactly.

Speaker AWas that a reply all? They did that?

AlexI'm pretty sure I'm stealing this. They talked about the taxi, the guy who lost and found a taxi.

MerlinOh, that was great. Oh, that was so good. That show really annoys me, but I still listen to it. Reply all locksmith.

AlexI just think it would be nice to, you know, that I could file as a 501c3. Like, it would work out. And then maybe you do take them to your destination, but like an awkward lifter Uber driver, you talk about why you do this and the bad parts of your life, and it would be great.

MerlinOh, it would be kind of like your own Dismaland?

Alexlike you would go and do some kind of

Merlinda-da live performance about what's happening

Alexyeah it's art really I mean and then you have you give them an hourglass and you're like please look at my nanoballs

Merlinwould you like me to open any doors for you or I am also a locksmith

Speaker Ain a Steve Bannon mask grab my nanoballs together we will stop time itself Prince Zapier help us take flight

MerlinAlex you you started to ask us about county fairs and then you also sent us pictures of

Alextiny fake babies oh I forgot about this well I was trying to find the the pdf of this exact pamphlet we received from InfoWars, but I had a sudden flashback about one of the worst county fairs I went to where there was this pro-life group giving out small fetuses, small models.

MaxGotta catch them all. I've gotten those.

AlexYeah, yeah. And they would just give you a handful and they're like, this is how many babies are dying right now. And it's really upsetting. Are the real ones wrapped in ribbon?

Speaker AThis is so disturbing.

AlexYeah. No, but what was worse is one time I got some that were actually erasers because you're erasing their lives. Oh, that's pretty clever.

MaxGive me some candy fetuses. I'll pop eight in my mouth at once. Eat them with a spoon. Oh, so innocent.

AlexIt's so deliciously innocent. They're like a little choking hazard. I love it. I want the little black baby.

MerlinHe's so cute. Look at that. And why are the prices 39 cents to $1.95? Is that a result of bulk buying?

AlexI have a feeling. Bulk buying. Yeah.

MerlinLet's see.

Speaker AGoldenberg shoes.

AlexOh, they're so little. The top model is called the precious ones.

Speaker AOh, no. Have you seen them in the box? What they look like?

AlexYeah. Yeah.

Speaker AOh, my God.

MerlinThey look like chocolates.

AlexI know. I know.

MerlinOh, chocolate babies.

AlexYeah. They're very upsetting peeps.

MerlinThe precious one is the most realistic fetal model ever developed. It's beautiful detail. Softness and weight can really move hearts and change minds. Oh, here it is. Okay, if you buy one, it's $1.95. If you buy $10,000, $0.39.

AlexExactly. You know how people have, I mean, I still have dreams about going to math class and not being prepared and not being able to figure out sign and cosign and stuff like that. But I also have nightmares where I have somehow gotten pregnant, and I don't know why. And it's like I am in this alternative life where I'm this straight person, and suddenly I'm having a baby, and there's a baby shower. And then I wake up in this cold sweat. And I always remember the fetus eraser. Oh, my gosh.

Speaker AAnyway.

MaxI have a question for you. I have a lot of gay women, married gay women friends. But how are you sure that they're gay? Well, they're married to each other. Oh, I guess so. Yeah, and they're having a... And they're starting to have children. And one of them is the one that has the child.

AlexAre you asking if I'm going to be the dad?

MaxNo, no, I'm asking... Here's my question. How do you decide? How do you decide which one leads? Yeah, because like, how do you decide? Do you flip a coin?

AlexYeah, yeah. There's an official lesbian coin and one...

MaxNo, how do people decide this? Because it's like... The official lesbian coin. No one wants to be the one to have the kid, right? It's a challenge coin for babies. That's like a pretty big...

Speaker AI don't want an official lesbian coin so much. Official lesbian challenge coin? The lesbian challenge coin.

MaxIf you become a member of the Dubai Friday Network today, we will send you one official lesbian challenge coin. It's collectible.

MerlinYou see somebody your same height who's dressed like you,

Speaker Asame haircut? Just whip out the coin. And they go, oh, yeah.

MaxU-Haul.

Speaker AWah, wah. Okay. Do you see what I'm saying?

MaxIs that being the one to actually have the kid, you're taking a pretty big, you know, you're taking a pretty big bullet for the team here, you know?

AlexOh, indeed. Well, there are some women who definitely want to have that experience. There's a lot of straight women who don't want to have that experience.

MaxLet me give you an example, right? Like, if I'm married to a woman, she will want to have a child because that's the way that the two of us can have a child, right? she's pretty much going to have to step up and do her thing here.

Speaker AYou see this with such assurance. Hey, if I'm in the womb, she's going to want to have a child.

MaxI'm just saying, like, if we decide we're having a kid, she's having it, because that's what has to happen. But if it's two women, it's like you could – either one could realistically, like, be the one to step up and take this bullet for the team.

AlexThis is – okay, this is honestly something that people discuss all the time, and it's like you kind of have to decide. All right, who do you think has the better genes?

MerlinI bet it's not as complicated as it seems because, I mean, it's sort of like, well, hey, you're closer to the remote. Could you change the channel? Hey, could you top off my water?

Speaker AHey, would you bear the child? Yeah, totally. I'm into that. I would do that. Yeah.

AlexYeah.

Speaker AYeah, what's that? Nine months? Sure.

AlexNothing.

Speaker AEverybody's nice to you.

AlexYou get to complain. Exactly. Like, you get the Postmates account where anything comes to you.

MerlinOh, that's a dangerous account.

MaxIt seems like it must be a really difficult choice because among the couples that I know, they're both like kind of career women. Like they're both, they're both, you know, have like full-time jobs. So there's not like an easy choice of like one of them will be out of work for a while.

AlexSo have you brought this up to them and being like, so?

MaxNo, I don't really know how to broach the subject.

AlexHey, listen, about that baby. So do you use the coin? I have one. Would you like to use it? I don't know. I don't want tiny humans.

MerlinI bet. Couldn't it also be, I mean, I don't want to sysplain this, but couldn't it also be like who has the better benefits and likes their job more at that time? Couldn't part of it be? Because, I mean, you know, I remember my friend back in Tallahassee saying like the entire experience stem to stern up to the point of the baby getting pushed out cost him 50 bucks because of the amazing insurance that he had. the entire thing was paid for. It can be very costly. You saw the thing, did you see a thing about the guy who got bitten by a snake and ended up owing like over $100,000 in medical fees?

Oh, yeah. Could be fake news. But that, you know, I imagine, I would have to imagine, certainly, well, the clear thing is, is there somebody who's going, oh, I want to have a baby, put a baby in me. Like, if there's that character in the relationship, well, then I guess that seems kind of obvious. But I bet there's lots, probably lots of practical parts to it. And like you say, genetics as well. but the coin ultimately decides in every lesbian

Alexrelationship. It's also who likes a turkey baster more really How you feeling Max?

MaxNot great. Not good Have you and Mel done this math? That's a very personal question. Yes yes we have

Alexmany so yeah well that's the thing I like my job a lot so I would not have the child however in terms of like she's an only child where my parents had a lot of kids. So it's like, I don't know. We don't know. Oh, in terms of who's got the best shot, sort of. Exactly, yeah. So again, the coin, really.

Who has lived the longest in your family? Obey the coin.

MaxYou get into weird territory trying to make the right choice.

Alexa lot of the only friends I have who have had kids are like okay you have the first one and I'll have the

Speaker Asecond one whoa I didn't even consider

Alexthat that's a really good idea yeah I'm pretty sure it became popular after the movie the kids are alright like it didn't occur to anybody that oh yeah we can both bear children but like what if you don't

Merlinlike the way yours turned out like let's say you go first and then maybe you got sometimes you get a dud yeah Yeah, you gotta throw it back. I'm not gonna serve you to my family. And you say, so you get it done. Like, you get to call the next one. Do you get a do-over? You say, hey, look, give me another shot at this.

MaxSometimes you have a kid. He grows up to write explainer articles for Vox. And you're like, we're not doing that again.

MerlinSo I flipped a lesbian coin for a week, and you're not gonna believe what happened. Could you both be pregnant at the same time? What if you didn't make it a contest?

AlexOh, God. Oh, my God. Two basters, no waiting. I know someone who did that. You do? Disaster. Yeah. I mean, good for them. Good for them. Good for you guys.

MaxThat seems like a lot of work.

AlexThey also ate the placenta of each of their children. And they tried. They had a doula. They wanted to have their kids at home. And that always works out fine.

Doula runs that place. But you're forgetting that we have a much easier route. and that's just, you kind of can, there are many kids up for adoption and it really, the bar's pretty low. It used to be like, gay couples, meh. But now it's like, oh, gay couples with jobs? Like here, let's just hand them off. You sure you just want one? You know, you can take two.

So, and they're like, if the coin isn't for you, adoption is on the table.

MerlinAsk your doctor if the lesbian coin is right for you.

MaxI judged a, this week I judged a startup showcase for high school students. So it was basically me and a panel of judges sat in the high school auditorium and teams of high school kids came up and pitched their startup to us and then we like ranked it on a rubric and the winning one got $2,500.

AlexOh God, is this like Y Combinator Junior?

Maxyear? Well, I think it's actually a pretty cool program to offer in high schools. It's like when I was a kid, there was DECA, which was sort of like making business plans and stuff, I think, in some sort of competition format. And this is way better because it like speaks to what people are actually doing now, which is like figure out some sort of like entrepreneurial hustle. But I was very depressed. The whole process was very depressing to me. So there were like, it's very interesting seeing what, it's the second year I've done it. I do it because the guy who organizes it at the school district is a is an old friend of mine but uh um basically

it's fascinating seeing what the kids come up with because they're like totally constrained by their experiences as high school students like they're trying to come up with startups but the whole space they can sort of conceive of is like the world of a high school student yeah so there was like a lot of gadgets there was like a pizza cutter that sliced the pizza into even size slices because when you're a high school student in a fairly well-off white district, one of the biggest problems in your life is that you get a slice of pizza that's smaller than someone else's.

I thought everybody needs a well. Yeah. Last year we picked the winner was a product that I actually use and I really like and I endorse, and it was awesome. This is called the Hoodie Hoop, and it's like a long, thin sort of acrylic band, and at the end there's an alligator clip. And you use this so when the string of your hoodie comes out in the washing machine, you clip the thing and you fish it back through the hoodie. It's fucking brilliant.

AlexHoly shit.

MaxYou push it instead of pull it. So you push this little thing through. Use the alligator clip to clip the hoodie string and then you pull it back through and it brings the string with it. It's so easy. I literally cannot do this. Like Veronica can sort of like fish it through. I cannot. So if she's out of town and my hoodie string comes out, I'm fine.

MerlinOh, no, my hoodie. Yeah.

MaxSo I just have to wait for her to come home to do it. So the hoodie hoop is a pretty cool product. This year.

AlexI just picture an ad where Veronica's like, bye, honey. And then you're like, oh, no.

MerlinJust ill-advisedly, you get some cold asana out of the refrigerator.

Speaker AAnd the door closes on the string. You start walking away to enjoy your food. Zip. Oh, no. My hoodie. Has this ever happened to you?

Maxanyway so this year there were um there were some really cool pitches the one that i liked the most was these this team of two girls who made this kind of shark tanky contraption that was like a water bottle that screwed together in compartments like a bento box so there was like a top and then different like sort of almost like false bottoms that screwed out and so what they conceived of was different modules so they had one that was like a thermos uh so you could have a hot beverage and a cold beverage. It was one that was like storage for like your snacks or your pills.

So you could have like almonds in there.

MerlinYour powders.

MaxThere was one that was a battery case. You could have a water bottle with like a USB battery on the bottom that I thought was pretty cool. But I also thought there would be like a thriving market for this for like going to festivals because you're allowed to bring a water bottle into like Pitchfork, but you can't bring, you know, like whiskey. But this thing has a false bottom. So you fill it with your liquor and you can bring that right into a music festival or your weed.

Speaker AAll right. Let me stop you there, Barbara. I got some notes. Have you thought about the uses for drugs and alcohol? I didn't know how to bring this up to the high school students, but that would clearly be the market for it. It doesn't have to be meth,

Maxbut I'm just pitching here. It could be anything you're not allowed to bring into a music festival.

Speaker AIt could be a small knife.

MaxIt could be a weapon.

Speaker AExactly.

MaxIt could be your molly. It could be anything. Acid.

AlexSo it could be an unlimited amount of CBD that definitely does not have any negative side effects.

Speaker ALiterally no toxic dose. The more you take, the better you get.

MaxWell, you either get better or you stay the same or you get worse. Go Kuna Matata.

The one that the other judges were all fucking entranced by, they were all bamboozled by these kids who came up, they all wore matching T-shirts, which to me was a sign immediately I was very suspicious of whatever they had to pitch. But they had this thing called Penny Pinscher or something like that, or Penny Planner. And the premise of this one was, so it's an app that kids use and parents use together. So kids use it as a shopping app.

They pick something that they want, like a toy or something that they have to save up some money for, and they pick it on the app. So they showed an example of a girl who picks an American Girl doll. She really wants that, puts it on the app. Then the parents on their app, they list chores that need to be done around the house. So they're like, mow the lawn, $1. Do the fold the laundry, $1.50. And the kids do these chores, and they tick off the chores, and then it applies the money towards their thing, and they see it expressed as like a percentage of the purchase. So they can be like, oh, my American girl doll is a 15% paid for by household chores.

You know, I just need to keep saving. And they had a whole thing of how it's going to teach the next generation the values of like thrift and saving and planning. And the judges are all sort of businessy people and startup people. They were all older. I was the youngest one by far. They were all old. Some of them were like actual old people, like 70-year-old, you know, retired businessmen. and one of the guys said when I was a young boy my grandfather took me out on the farm and there was a drought and he pointed to the silo and he said grandson this is why you always need to save and that's an important

lesson and he's like you're teaching that lesson to kids today and I fucking hated this app I thought there was so much wrong with it so first of all the revenue model they had three ways they were going to make money number one they were going to take a percentage of all of the chores that the kids got paid for. Oh my God. What? So they're basically taking these kids and holding them upside down and taking the change that falls out of their pocket. Jingle, jingle, jingle.

AlexThey're the bullies taking so much money.

MaxThe other thing I didn't like is just conceptually it felt like they felt like they're like a mining company paying people in script. It's like here's the like here's the like company currency that you can only spend at the company store. It's like you can only buy the toys you know that are listed in the app. So that's part number two is that they would like also get paid by toy companies to market toys to kids. Oh, my God. And then way number three that they came up, these are high school, these were sophomores and juniors in high school. And then way number three that they came up was they would then sell the kids' data back to the companies.

So they would take the info of what the kids were shopping for and sell them. So it's like each one of these methods that they're going to make money on is worse than the next. So it's like completely unethical. But furthermore, the whole point of kids doing chores is so that they learn to do work. That is the point of doing the chores. It's not actually so that the laundry gets folded. It's so that kids learn the value of a job well done. And you can't do that by giving them a monetary reward and having some fucking gamified system where they're getting micro credits.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

AlexNo, it's so weird, though, too. You're not learning about saving if you're like, all right, I just got to put one more dish in the dishwasher to get my American Girl doll.

Maxright you're you're you're basically buying a toy on layaway and then like and then like working for it it's a debt no seriously it's a zeno's paradox we're like every time you're

Merlinalmost ready to buy your doll they come in and dip out a few extra pennies because it helps it

Maxhelps you helps you learn it helps you learn a lesson there was this great thing by um uh stuart butterfield uh from uh slack and it's called uh uh stuart uh stuart butterfield's Rules of Business, which is sort of a jokey title. It's such a fucking great piece, but one of his things that he says is, every job you do has your signature on it. When I was around 10 or 11 years old, my father offered me $10 to move a cord of recently delivered firewood from the driveway into the garage and stack it up inside. I'm old. $10 was a great deal of money back then.

I managed to get all the firewood inside, but rather than it being stacked against the wall, it was more or less evenly distributed across the floor of the garage. I expected my payment, but instead got some advice. Every job you do has your signature on it. Do you really want to sign that? I always remember that. And if I'm going to do something, I make every effort to do it right. I also properly stacked the wood afterwards, even though it took forever, I got paid in the end. And I was thinking about that. I was like, that is the essential lesson that you're like depriving kids by creating this like gamified, like microtransaction. You're making all work and

all projects in the house, like totally fungible. Like, well, I can do this for a dollar or this for $2. There's no value of learning to do a thing you don't want to do. I can confirm that

Merlinthat struggle is real. First of all, yes. I mean, what you're saying, the words that your mouth are making, those words are good words, and it's true. It's really, really difficult in practice.

But I agree with what you're saying. There's a phrase, there's a word that I frequently introduce that I probably am very hypocritical to even bring up, but the word proper. And here I mean it more in the way that British people use proper. Like, you know, that is the proper way to do this. And you hear the pops up in like Doctor Who and Harry Potter or whatever. But like, but you know, we can do this and we can half ass this. But I don't think there's anything too paradoxical or hypocritical about reducing

the number of things that you do and then trying to do a proper job with it when you do it. As against, I mean, I guess the extreme example, the opposite of that, maybe a straw man is the kind of person who is just constantly half-assing everything and accomplishing almost nothing. And so I like the idea of, first of all, I think Stuart's a very interesting and very, very funny, very smart guy. I think that's good advice to consider that like, if you only try to do a good job at the stuff you think other people can see that's important and builds your brand, you don't become a better person. You become a better person by sweating the really silly stuff, like how you prepare this food. There's all these things, and you don't have

to be precious about it. But like just the way that you make your bed, you know, can make a difference in a small way. Even if it doesn't matter to anybody but you, it's still worth doing

Maxproperly. Well, the other thing with this company was that they had this complicated app that involved microtransactions flying back and forth and an approval process. I'm sure parents are going to know how to use that. Well, forget that no one will know how to use it. They also didn't make the app, right? They showed pictures of how it would look. Whereas the water bottle, the girls who were doing the water bottle in the compartments, they had actually built a functional prototype on a 3D printer and it screwed together and it showed all the different components. They had already called a manufacturer and figured out the pricing and had a plan to make it.

And I was like, one of these groups did the project that they were supposed to do and the other group didn't, right? You're looking at a picture of something that could be versus a thing that is. How do you not pick the thing that is? But regardless, I was the only one who liked the water bottles. But the other one that was really, that I thought maybe I could get on board with as like a consensus, like we could sort of build a coalition to overcome the penny pincher or whatever, was this thing called, I don't know, like some sort of like stupid like box

where it was like a shopping, it's like a Shopify site where you can pick out a bunch of like candy and school supplies and shit and you tick off the things that you want if you're a parent and then you send it to your kid in college. So it's like a shopping service, like sending a care package to your kid in college.

MerlinThat's a service, not a company.

MaxUh, well, with the exception that they were already doing it. So they already had customers and they were already turning a profit. Where were they sourcing?

MerlinWere they buying stuff from Costco?

MaxProbably. Yeah. I think they were buying like, you know, bulk candy and office supplies and then selling it at a high markup. You know, so it was like, again, like this is not a million dollar business, but it's high school students and you're judging them based on like, what have they done with the constraints that they have?

MerlinIt's nice that it's not all apps. I mean, because, you know, you certainly have run into this, both of you, I'm sure, with design. And I've gotten a little bit with design, development, all kinds of things. Is that, you know, you could push back on your plumber about how much it's going to cost to unplug the poop in your pipes. But the truth is, like, you're going to pay whatever it takes because you understand this is hard work. You understand this is important work. You understand it takes time. You understand that pipes, you know, aren't free and that labor is not free. But there's something so – what's the word I'm looking for?

feels inessential or light or easy about both the design and development, it feels that way. And we've all been on both sides of this. There's the one like, oh, it's just a button guy over here, versus us going like, no, you don't understand. There's so much we have to understand about the way you would use this app. Because putting up a few JPEGs that you made in Sketch or whatever, like, yeah, but I mean, is that an app that somebody's going to want to use all the time? because there's so many apps that I get where the product,

like even if there is a hardware component, like I bought a, I've been trying all kinds of different cameras, wireless camera, security cameras, you know, trying to find inexpensive ones where I don't have to buy a canary in order to look at this one area. The experience of setting up the camera is so bad because the app that they make you use is just a crappy web view that is not optimized for anything. I guess what I'm trying to say is like, I admire people who go beyond the it's just a button. uh like here's some here's some jpegs i made fund me because like the real art of that isn't

isn't crafting something something where the ui and the ux feels very personal and uh to use your

Maxwork max uh bespoke yeah anyway so i tried i tried my damnedest i tried to 12 angry minute but there was only we only like 10 minutes to decide after the thing and and everyone wanted to go with the they were like well if i had a if i had a million dollars to invest in this i would definitely invest in this app because, oh, shit, the kids also, what the other thing they did was they put a bunch of bank logos on the screen, and they were like, we imagine ourselves partnering with these banks in the future. And they were like, because I had asked at one point, I was like, well, how will you make the microtransactions work?

Because the credit card fees are actually more than the kids are getting paid sometimes, right? Once you have a 12-cent credit card fee, and you're taking your commission, and it's like a 50-cent chore, it's like, well, shit, now the kid's not even really getting paid, right? So they were like, well, we're going to partner with the banks, and they'll give us the transactions for free. And the banks will want to work with us because we'll have this huge user base of people, of kids using it. And the banks will want to reach all the kids. And I was like, well, it's a fucking chicken and the egg because the banks, it's like, you need to have a partnership with the banks for your app to work, but the banks will only work with you

to get your user base. So which one is it? Do you have the user base or do you need the bank to make your thing work?

MerlinIt's also a little bit like the people on Shark Tank who are like, well, we've been in contact with some of the largest retailers in the world. And they go like, oh, like who? And they go, well, like Target and Walmart. like oh so did they place an order and like oh no no but we've been calling them right exactly it's

Maxit's a it's a anyway the other the final thing i'll say about this that that bothered me spiritually about it is it's an app it's like it's so interesting to me these are high school kids and they're they've they immediately when they're sort of told like make a business that makes money and like you know sort of like cargo cult your way into like entrepreneurship you know in the way that like, you know, you look at TV and you watch Shark Tank on TV and you're like, I'm going to do what these people are doing. The way that they perceive business and the way they think to be good at it is to essentially

make something predatory on a group that's like less able than they are. And so the only group they can imagine to like, that they can take advantage of are kids younger than them. So there was actually another group, there was another group that also pitched a thing for kids younger than them that helped them save their change and had the same model of like, we'll take a few cents. and it's like this is a like no one needs help with this like parents don't actually need an app to pay their kids for chores nobody needs help saving their change in an app like these are these are predatory apps that solve a non-existing problem and the only people that would take it

would do them are suckers and you know that you have a sort of pt barnum like sucker relationship

Merlinwith the users of this thing or as you say here with the investors because if you know the kind of buttons that you want to press with these investors they could go oh yes that's exactly the kind of thing oh it's a great bootstrap story like this is good for my brand to support something

Maxlike this yeah absolutely i just i just didn't it just made me very uneasy it was like it was like it was like the the ideology of capitalism is getting through to these like you know whatever like 16 year old kids in in a very clear way of that when they're told to start a business they immediately like find the group that i can take advantage of can we talk about how trump has dementia now i i boy that article was a hell of a read can you some i didn't read it can you

Alexsummarize it alex trump has dementia okay let me take a shot at this alex i think you mentioned

Merlini i'm very uncomfortable discussing this uh i just want to stipulate um but it's another one of those articles or like uh syracuse and i just recorded a show where we talked about that uh is Disney ruining Pixar article in The Atlantic? And how frustrating it is when you can observe the same things or see the same kinds of results as somebody who's writing the article, but you completely disagree with their approach.

The thing I think you brought up last week, Alex, was like, or was it Max? If you go back and you watch interviews with Donald Trump in the 1980s, yeah, he's very definitely Donald Trump. But we just, I don't know if this made it in the show last week, but, you know, if you go and watch this, like, he's maybe not the smartest guy in the world, but he's very temperate and he speaks in sentences. He's able to insert, you know, like dependent clauses without tripping over himself, without changing the topic. He's able to get to not only the end of a sentence, but in some cases he's able to speak extemporaneously an entire paragraph that is not fragmented, broken, disjointed, or ultimately just turns into some kind of thing about his personal insecurity at that moment.

Whereas today, like once you go back and you and before we even get into this article, if you go back, we'll try and find some of these videos to put in. But like him on Larry King, him being, you know, even like Letterman, you compare that to where he is today.

It does seem like something has changed. That's that's all I'm comfortable diagnosing about this. And if you want to go further, Alex, maybe talk more about what this specifically said. They went out and talked to experts for this article.

AlexI mean, no one can definitively say what's going on. Like, they're never going to let a doctor touch him. Nothing is going to be public. But, you know, it came out after Reagan left office that he probably did have Alzheimer's in the final years of his presidency. And just even if you watch The Apprentice, like the early, and again, I have gone full left-wing conspiracy and 25th Amendment in this.

And I don't know what I'm talking about. But just watching these interviews and watching how his TV appearances that were scripted, that he just had to say the words from the teleprompter versus the words he had to say from the teleprompter three years ago, there is a distinct difference.

It's creepy. And like you said, he can finish a sentence. Sometimes he expands. on the question he's being asked like he can it's when you see them really typed out and and when

Merlinyou and i'm not saying this because if the guy has problems that sucks but like when you actually read these aloud um so can i read a little bit from this article yes ben um mike michaelis michaelis a psychologist in new york city performed cognitive assessments at the behest of the new york supreme court and criminal courts and taught the technique at a hospital and university quoting there are clearly some changes in trump as a speaker unquote since the 1980s and this guy, Dr. Who, does not support Trump, including a clear reduction in linguistic sophistication over time

with simpler word choice and sentence structure. In fairness to Trump, he's 70, so some decline in his cognitive functioning over time would be expected. New paragraph. Some sentences or partial sentences would, if written, make a second grade teacher despair. Quoting, this is Trump, we'll do some questions unless you have enough questions. He told a press conference in February. Last week he told Lester Holt, when i did this now i said i probably maybe will confuse people maybe i'll expand that you know

Speaker Alengthen the time because it should be over with in my opinion should have been over with a long time ago from the time i took office till now you know it's a very exact thing it's not like

Merlingeneralities and so basically the the thesis is here i think that uh they are suggesting that there appears to be how does one avoid saying brain damage? Something's not quite right with his cognition and his brain.

AlexEven if it's not brain damage he's still a fuckface in the old interviews from the 80s.

MaxAs a medical doctor I'm not allowed to diagnose someone as a fuckface without personally examining them. Ask your doctor if fuckface is right for you.

AlexAlright, anyway Guardians of the Galaxy 2 Hold on. What did you guys think? Mac, I can't believe Max does not have an opinion on this at all. Like, it is shocking to me.

MerlinAnytime good news comes along that suggests we're making any progress, Max feels the obligation to point out that nothing's ever going to happen.

AlexI can't tell it.

MerlinNo, no, no, no, no. You're enjoying it wrong.

AlexHe does have his laptop, so who... I'm not paying attention.

MaxNo, listen, here's the situation with this. Do you remember... Jesus, I think it was in the Top Chef podcast. We were talking about, like, Martian thinking. like that there's a cool thing in the martian where when when um matt damon is like trying to survive he like looks at what there's no point in going i wish i had a spaceship what he does is he looks at what's in front of him and he says this is what i have i have a bag of my shit and i have these potatoes this is what i can work with like this is what's available there's kind of no point of being optimistic or pessimistic or wishful thinking or any of that it's a it's a when it's

when you get into that life or death thinking or that engineering systems thinking you know you think in terms of just like affordances and capabilities. What can I do? How much does it cost? What can happen here? That's the reality. That's sort of the real politic scenario of if you're worried about Trump, you got to focus on the things that can stop him and create material conditions that stop him or slow him down. And you got to not give a shit about the rest of it.

He is never going to be diagnosed with dementia or removed from office for being demented, Even if he gets 10 times as demented as he is now, even if he regularly shits his pants in public, his Fox News will go, well, it's the president. It's actually a power play. And it's a classic power move. The president should shit his pants. It makes his enemies nervous. That's Bill.

MerlinThat's Bill talking. But who's the guy you like, Bill? Bill O'Reilly? No, no, no. The guy on Twitter, Bill Mitchell. Oh, Bill Mitchell. Yeah.

Speaker ANo, Bill Mitchell is going to shit himself in solidarity.

MerlinSee, on Fox, they would say, this is really bad for national security that they mentioned that the president is pooping. Who leaked the poop?

MaxThat's right. And then Sean Spicer would come on and he would say the president has never shit himself. And the next day that Trump would go online and he would go, yeah, of course I shit myself. I'm literally never shot.

No, I mean, listen, he's never going to be removed for this. It's never going to affect him. But meanwhile, he is actually doing a bunch of evil shit like taking away people's health care. he's trying to pass this budget right now that has a $2 billion math error in it that they refuse to recognize. That's things that actual voters care about in their real lives. I mean, Trump is defunding libraries around the country, giving huge tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires who will never spend that money back into the economy. Like, there's legitimately evil things that affect people's everyday lives happening, and that's what we've got to focus on. Like,

if you want to stop Trump, find your nearest congressman that voted for AHCA and talk about that. It doesn't matter if the guy's demented or not. He's still going to sign the laws.

AlexWe, and I think we both definitely agree with you, but that's, that's not what the Fox, like Fox news moms are going to be like, Oh, this, this guy, and you're right. He's never going to be removed from office, but I'm curious because you've worked on a bunch of campaigns. What, what happens if the staff decides that this person is unwell? Not, not even like mentally,

Maxbut like what happens if they just physically can no longer. Nixon was being impeached. He was reportedly became, had a real problem with alcohol. He was like muttering to himself. He wouldn't sleep. He would stay up all night, walk up and down the hallways of the White House and yell at the paintings. And his staff contacted, you know, I guess the Pentagon. And they said, listen, if this guy gives an order to launch nuclear missiles, check with us first, right? Don't just launch them. And the Pentagon came back and said, sorry, it's not constitutional.

It's not how it works. President's the commander in chief. If he gives the order to launch, There's no mechanism in place to slow that down.

MerlinThere's all kinds of ways the 25th Amendment route could be extremely bad news, not least of which is it would be surpassingly difficult to really actually really, really, really take away his power via that method. And it's very long and strung out. But also, I realize this already seems like very old thinking to bring up this idea from November. But let's be careful what we're talking about normalization. Let's be careful about what we say it's OK to do. right because they're they're going to use that against our guy like do we want to get into a case

where we're 25th amendmenting uh our president a lot and i would say we absolutely do not uh i i'm

Maxnot as sympathetic to that argument just because we keep saying like well if we stoop to their level then we'll all be at their level but the reality is they're down in the fucking dirt and if and if we don't fight in the dirt then we'll never win anything like then we'll still be in the dirt and

Merlinwe'll lose i get that i get that i just i want to be careful it's sort of like any good heist movie where somebody finds a duffel bag full of money in a tree and then they've got to split it up and hide it and do all the stuff in that sort of a genre of movie. And the thing that makes that genre of movie that genre of movie is the way that this thing that should be this really great thing comes along. And then you manage to tear each other apart, undermine each other, and potentially kill each other in order to protect the good thing and keep it all for your own little Smeagol.

And I just want to be careful how much we tear down in inefficient or ineffective attempts to do what we think we're trying to do. That we, you know, I think we're swinging pretty broad on some of this stuff. And I just want to be careful how much of that we do.

AlexI mean, I don't know about, I don't think saying like, oh, this man is mentally incompetent. Like, I shouldn't be president. Like, I'd be hallucinating that I was living in Hogwarts and all the presidents are talking to me. Like somebody, that person should not be in charge of the free world. I don't know. Is it, is it, you can't punch down on the president. Like that's, that's not a thing that can happen.

MerlinHe doesn't read it all the way through, Alex. Don't be unkind.

MaxI gotta put his name in there. I just, I just, it's just, what's the point? It's not going to hurt him. So why obsess? I just, you know, or, or it's like, honestly, like one of the other things that bothers me is like whenever the guy fucking says a weird malproporism or his staff or whatever, and then we all, everyone on Twitter has to have a day of jokes about it of like, I'm trying to think of whatever latest example, but, you know, like... The hand, or the orb, or any of that stuff. You're talking specifically about when he misspeaks? When he misspeaks, when he says some dumb fucking banal

Trump thing, you know, like, oh, like yesterday everyone was joking what he said, I just got back from the Middle East while he was in Israel. I'm like, everyone has to do a whole fucking chunk. Well, actually. Like, you know, they have like a fucking tight five at the comedy store. They have to have like a chunk. I'm like, just got back from the Middle East on Twitter. And it's like, why? Like, does he have to drag, like, do we all have to like, you know, we did this for Bush too. It was like the wings take flight on the dreams of the bird or whatever dumb shit he would say. Or, you know, you got to put food on your family.

It's like, I don't want to hear about that for eight years. Just let it go. Like, talk about, like, and furthermore, like you can't win an election like that. Like the American people don't want to hear you make fun of the guy that they voted for and find palatable. Like you can find him unpalatable, but you have to accept that people who voted for Trump found him palatable. So you're never going to get anywhere by telling them what fucking idiots they are. You have to tell them that he's taking their health insurance. So it's like if you can't dignify and whatever, like call the guy names all you want.

MerlinBut that might be that might be the the Han and Chewie of this particular adventure that pops up at the last minute to save everything. I think I think if it is communicated to enough people, it might be pretty shocking to some of his strongly support base. Exactly what's going to happen with their health care and insurance. I think it could be very startling

Alexlike you tell the I just people who watch cable news aren't going to the library and it sucks and you go to the mom in Missouri who nobody knew voted and is like hey this guy he cares about you but he's not able to understand your needs and how this works

MerlinHe's still better than Hillary.

AlexYeah. Right?

MerlinI mean, isn't that the reaction? It's like the more it gives – even setting aside the – what do you call it? The feedback effect, the kickback error. What's it called? What's the thing we talked about? The cognitive error where when you try to dissuade somebody, it just makes them dig in more. I mean, that's their guy.

AlexBlowback effect?

MerlinYeah, blowback effect. Like this is their guy. This is their man. Okay.

AlexNow I'm sad.

Maxchallenge alex what was your challenge this week i didn't have a challenge this week

Merlinmerlin what was your challenge this week i didn't have a challenge this week Was it my challenge? Well, technically you challenged us to do powders, but the original challenge for last week, not that it matters, was to watch and be prepared to discuss the movie Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. And I think you, as you do by fiat sometimes, by your own hand, extended that to let's also talk about Logan.

MaxYes, it was to watch Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and Logan and talk about them. Whose challenge was this?

AlexThis was your challenge.

MaxIt can't be my challenge. It was your challenge.

AlexNo, I, well. You keep heisting. you keep grabbing the challenge away from others. You do that. Considering I, again, did not go see this movie for a second week in a row, pretty sure it's not my challenge. Oh, you didn't even do it? I didn't do it. Oh, we got cocked again. I've been taking these fucking powders for three days.

Speaker AAlex!

AlexI'm starting to grow testicles. I was not going to sit for three hours and pay $50.

Speaker AI'm going to sit around and watch Little Little Tree Puppet run around.

AlexI love the tree puppet. I got a big heart. It's full of blood.

Speaker AI don't trust that raccoon.

MaxHow do they get that thing to move around like that? That's sorcery. That's one of these human animal cock mirrors they've been making with robots.

Speaker AIt turns the trees gay.

MerlinI loved the first Guardians of the Galaxy movie. My daughter loved it. It was the original OG Breath of Fresh Air Marvel movie. It was delightful from beginning to end, the use of music. They really had me with this movie, taking these obscure characters, taking so much of the bloat and seriousness out of the MCU stuff. Utilily delightful. I'm not here just, I'm not certainly not the only person to have really enjoyed the first movie and really, really, really look forward to the second one.

And I saw it.

AlexI feel like this is this is the easiest Marvel movie to not fuck up a sequel with and apparently that's what happened so I'm just I don't I don't know I don't I'm kind of done with uh

Merlinthe Marvel Universe oh yeah they kind of weezered me a little bit where like there's I I really have so much enjoyed a couple of their things but now with more and more things out there that's such a dick thing to say i i hate when people say things like this but now like when i really sit down and think about like how as i sit here today how much i i enjoyed that movie at the time how much i think about it since for so many of those marvel movies and the fox ones and even a lot of the x-men ones and the spider spider's men and all of those like i as i sit here i go like you know some of them

I just was excited because I was going to this movie with my kid. And they weren't really that. There's a couple really good X-Men movies. There's, see not like an Iron Man 2? I actually really enjoyed Iron Man 2. I really liked the first Thor movie. I really liked the first Captain America movie. And I liked some of the later ones too. I think Winter Soldiers are really, a really interesting movie. But, you know, they got a lot of, and as I sat in the theater, I'm talking because you guys aren't. I hope you will.

But as I sat in the theater, I enjoyed it because I was ready. I was like, you know, your first viewing of a movie in the theater with your nine-year-old, in my case, of course, you're ready. You're so there. Like, please, I am an open vessel. Fill me with joy. I want to love every digital frame of this movie. I am so all in. This is the kind of movie you look forward to for two years, and I'm so ready to love it. I phantom menaced my way into this and was like, yeah, this is good, right? and then like kind of all throughout it there were times where i was like oh that's the direction

you're going with this huh the whole yondu thing is the thing we're going to be sticking with and why is the team not together is this your empire strikes back like what's happening here and then and by the time it was done i was like that was you know enjoyable and now every time i try to in prepping for this everything i wrote down everything that occurred to me that i have to say about this movie is negative well and i feel terrible about it there's so there's there's no

Maxquestion guardians of the galaxy 2 worse than the original i love the original i have like very mixed feelings about the marvel cinematic universe in general um i don't begrudge other people for liking it like i think they're like well i think i think one of the things about the marvel movies is every single one of them is like very well produced like they have like good actors good cast. They all look good. They're all well done like superhero movies. I just think they're mostly pretty bad and samey. And I have a lot of sort of filmmaking complaints about them. So one of my

main complaints about the Marvel movies is there's tons of fighting. There's constantly people punching each other and the punches escalate in strength. And it's this guy has to fight that guy and you find out who wins. And I understand this is sort of a trope of comic book stuff. I'll put it that way.

Speaker AThat sounds really boring.

MaxWell, I understand it's sort of a trope of comic book stuff of like, oh, what if fucking Thor fought the Hulk or whatever? Who would win? And, you know, blah, blah, blah. I get it. But it's like I just – it doesn't matter. It's like most of the time when you're watching these fight scenes, it's just sort of like usually at the climax of the third act, it just sort of crumbles because you don't – you know that the hero is not going to die or get hurt. You know that nothing is going to change. You know that the bad guy is going to lose. And you're just sort of like looking at your watch and like waiting for this thing to end. And like these movies sometimes have like, like I recently watched a rewatched a Civil War, Captain America Civil War.

And like that's a long ass movie with a lot of fight scenes. Like that whole thing at the airport. It was like the most boring shit in the world. Like who cares? The guy got big and small and they've shot them with the web. And it's like, you know, no one's going to die or get hurt. You didn't enjoy it while it was happening.

MerlinYou didn't think it was fun while it was happening.

MaxNo, I was very bored by it. It didn't matter. There were no consequences for the characters. in order for action to work which I do like action in movies but it has to have emotional consequences for the characters and it's robbed of all emotional consequences for the characters in these Marvel movies where you know that really nothing is going to change and no one's going to hurt. You've got to do a die hard

Merlinit's got to be something where there are huge stakes it is stacked against you and you have in that case he doesn't have shoes and somehow he perseveres through all of that but the stakes combined with it isn't just immortals

Maxhitting each other. Much like in Die Hard Without the Shoes, what's his name? John McClane Without the Shoes. The action also works best when it's like a little metaphor for what's happening with the character and his interior state. When the fight is cleverly done to tell you something about these people and what's at stake and who they are. Okay, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, I was very confused the whole time. I thought that it was sort of joyless, like it was sort of moving all these pieces on the board in a very mechanical way. I felt that it, it tried so hard to be like big and epic and to have these like

big moments and these emotional moments. And it was communicating to you constantly the whole time. This is a big story. These are on a big planet. This is a big cave. There's big things happening. This is a big army. And I, as a result, I just, I don't like being told that. Like, it's like, it feels like you got to really care about this. It's really bad what's happening. It's like, well, if it was really bad what was happening, I would figure that out myself from the context. So I feel like almost everything wrong with the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general, a very good example of what's happening with that in Guardians of the Galaxy.

And just mashing all these characters together and putting them on the screen and watching them fight each other does not necessarily yield a good film. It can. I think Iron Man 1 is a good film. I think Guardians of the Galaxy 1 is a good film. I thought the first Avengers was a good film. But, you know, to some extent, those films are, like, fresh. they're like new so you get the novelty of learning about the characters in the world they're funny they're playing against type they're subverting your expectations very hard if not impossible to do that in a sequel because in this movie in two they felt it was necessary to reference

every fucking bit and joke from the first movie you name a popular moment in the first movie and i will and and whatever you can think of whatever is on your note card of a little inside joke that you like from the first movie they had to fucking bring it back for an encore in this movie power

Alexthe duck yeah yeah yeah every a lot of things have been written about how the first avengers destroyed joss weed and soul and you can sort of tell in every marvel why is that why because it is it is it is good but you can just tell that it's like there were scenes i mean they brought him on because initially the writers um just made this soulless thing and there was punchy punchy punch and I always think about his run on X-Men where there were the punchy punches but it's not

Merlinreally about the characters and their lives and lives and relationships yeah and even though like

Alexthere was a silver guy and there were tight suits and I knew nothing about the backstory it was still a really good engaging book and I loved it and and you can tell from like the Avengers that that's The characters are there, but they wanted to put it in a cookie-cutter template of a film. And I think that's why Jon Favreau left the Iron Man series, because I love Iron Man 1, and I love the original Avengers, and Captain America 2, pretty good.

MaxThe first act of Iron Man 3 was really good, where he doesn't have the suit.

AlexI mean, but I feel like that's kind of Robert Downey Jr.

MerlinI didn't like anything about that movie, hardly at all. but go listen to the director's commentary on the avengers and he just sounds like he's still just racked with anxiety there's the whole time all mostly all he's talking about is how he wishes we could have done this scene better we did not have the time we did not have the budget the entire thing felt rushed and like you know it's another one of those things like it sucks to be successful because then nobody ever has any sympathy for you ever again because now you're just another rich guy but in that guy's case like i think he does sweat his stuff and he really does want it to be great and he really wants to tell stories about people and who wouldn't turn down

the chance to direct a fucking Avengers movie. I mean, my God, if you can make it work, yeah, of course you're going to do it. But it just sounds like it was really like pulling teeth the entire time. And working for Marvel is hard. They are a hard company to work

Maxfor. Well, they have a company. They clearly have. They obviously, and it shows in their films, they have a company style. You got to do things the Marvel way. You can't take a surprising turn with a character. We'll get into this in the long, boring thing that I'm going to read this week. But there's a reason that their Marvel movies all feel self-similar and they have like a company brand. and you kind of know what you're getting into when you see a Marvel movie. And everything is like a three-act, you know, hero's journey archetype stamped out of a fucking, you know, prefabricated template. But can I just say, I just want to foreshadow one little bit

Merlinbefore we move on, which is that, you know, if you think about all the ones that, think about all these movies that you loved. I mean, it could be a part two. It could be a sequel. I mean, it certainly has happened in the history of movies. Certainly, Godfather is an example that comes to mind. But even with Marvel, even with the Warner movies, the Sony movies, all of those things. I have to always then think about Edgar Wright, who is my favorite director working right now. And the thing that all of these things have in common is like with Edgar Wright, when he makes a movie, it's not unusual for him to also, if not overturn,

if not reinvent, at least overturn a genre. Like all three Cornetto trilogy movies are basically like such a fresh look at a genre movie. And that's the thing, is that now we know that feeling of having walked out at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and said, I want to walk right back into that theater. I'll go there, man. Iron Man, the first Iron Man movie, is fantastic. Great film. You're so excited by the end of that movie. But what do all these things have in common? It's a fresh take on something that you think you understand.

People will not remember this today, but before the first Iron Man movie, the superhero genre was not a big thing. It was a silly thing. It was not something, there have been so many, it was a genre that was primarily-

MaxWait a minute, wasn't the Batman movies, wasn't that after Dark Knight?

AlexWell, I was-

MaxIt was around the same time, I think.

AlexI mean, it was, the thing is though, like the Dark Knight wasn't marketed as everybody in the world is going to see this. Like they tried to do that with Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2, which I- Same year. I really like Spider-Man 2.

MaxNo, what I think was happening was in 2000, Dark Knight and Iron Man both came out in 2008. Isn't it crazy to think that the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe is basically less than 10 years old? It is completely crazy. So, okay. So I think that I agree with your overall analysis here that what makes these movies good is when they subvert your expectations and play against type and surprise you. I think that you were entering an era of the gritty reboot when everything was being, this was the trend, which is still continuing of like if you were going to have a movie, it was going to be this like dark Zack Snyder shit.

or The Dark Knight, where it was very serious, solemn, somewhat pretentious or serious filmmaking of like, let's take the Batman and take him.

MerlinLet's say it in two letters. It's a very DC, post-Sin City kind of approach, right?

MaxYeah, everything is all CGI'd to hell and very serious. There's mud on everything. And Iron Man was so refreshing because it was funny. Robert Downey Jr. had fun. It was like there's jokes in it. It surprised you. It was joyful. It was a joyful, fun ride.

MerlinAll I wanted to say was that the thing that I feel is in common with all of those things, that is a very obvious thing to say but still very important, is we remember loving those movies. We remember loving the way that they look. You know what I feel like for me, though, as I look back over all of those, the thing that I really remember is how excited I was that this was not only better than what I expected, but it was so different from what I expected. That the approach they took with this was so bananas. that I never could have guessed. And the other movie that we'll talk about this week, I think is a bravura example of that,

of like, holy shit, how did you actually go there with this movie to where I think there's a chance that in the next five years, Logan may be the movie that we mentioned to talk about how you can completely, even at the end of a series, utterly change the direction that was taken with the series. If you get the right person with the right group on the right job with the right rating, you can go somewhere nobody expects. So what we miss with Guardians 2, we miss that sense of, holy shit, I didn't even think this would be possible because you're going into the theater praying that this will actually be twice as good as the first one. So, like, you can't help but have high expectations.

What's that feeling?

MaxIt's literally an impossible self-defeating thing because how do you have a sort of playing against type parody, right, and then do a sequel to it?

MerlinAbsolutely.

MaxLike, it's an impossible, you know, you have to, like, subvert the subversion. You're putting a hat on a hat. There's a great tweet that one of our friends made. I wish I remembered who, but it was like around the time that the new Star Wars movie came out. And they said, you know, really, everybody thinks they want a new Star Wars movie, but they don't want that. What they want is a new thing that makes them feel the same way that Star Wars made them feel.

MerlinThat's a great way to put it. That's exactly what I've been trying to say. Yeah.

MaxAll right. Let's talk about Logan. Quick note for listeners. If you have not seen Logan, I had the experience of going into this movie where I just went, like Andrew and Tommy and I were working late in the office. and Andrew was like, hey, let's go see a movie. And we were like, what's playing? A new X-Men movie. All right, let's go see it. I haven't seen almost any of the X-Men movies. I don't know shit about Wolverine. I've never seen the Wolverine movies. I didn't know anything about this. I literally walked in blind thinking this was gonna be an average, normal, generic superhero movie. I sat down and it fucking blew me out of my seat.

It burned the eyebrows off my face. It was so good. So if you haven't seen Logan, if you don't know anything about it, stop what you're doing. I think it's on iTunes now just go watch it just turn the podcast off don't get spoiled don't have any expectations

Merlinit is not a kid's movie do not take a kid to this movie it is a hard hard movie

Alexwe have different opinions about that I should say right now that I have not I also haven't seen Logan oh my god

Speaker Awe got cucked again

Alexthere are a lot of good books that have been coming out what are your favorite books what are your favorite books

Merlinlet's talk about books

Alexyeah what are some of your favorites that you've already seen. Let's talk about books now. It's about books. I re-read Elon Musk's biography. This is over. All right. You're done.

Speaker AConversation over. Seven years dungeon. No trials.

Show notes

Transcript

27. The Bentley Boys

Show notes

Transcript

0:00

0:20

0:28

0:30

0:30

0:31

0:33

0:43

1:14

1:29

1:35

1:57

2:09

2:13

2:28

2:39

2:48

3:16

3:18

3:47

4:18

4:48

4:55

4:59

5:01

5:04

5:12

5:30

5:39

5:49

5:56

5:57

6:00

6:01

6:07

6:11

6:28

6:32

6:35

6:36

6:55

6:57

7:18

7:20

7:21

7:24

7:56

8:03

8:36

8:56

9:26

9:57

10:06

10:10

10:24

10:27

10:38

10:39

10:47

10:49

10:50

10:52

10:53

10:58

11:06

11:07

11:13

11:16

12:00

12:21

12:52

12:59

13:19

13:42

13:53

14:03

14:15