418. Personal Land Acknowledgment

This is Do by Friday, a weekly challenge podcast. with Alex Cox and Merlin Mann. This week's challenge, make your manual. Chucho recording Choo choo. Hello Hello. Don't d listen, d don't incl don't include my meta talk. Here's my new thing. We're gonna start again in a second, just so you know. Um so so my new thing is when it's a show that starts cold, um, I do the incomparable thing and I say recording. And that's my way of letting you know the sh the show can start anytime. Does that make sense? Yes. I guess this could be the show too. Um I don't know if you do this. I have compulsive things that I do. Oh my god. I've also got to think about hang on. I gotta talk about my technology. Okay, I need to fix that.

Yeah oh chill. I'll save it for the after show. What? I'll save it for the after show. I take back my noise. Check. It was a happy noise. Check, check, check, check, check. Check, check, check. Okay, that's less of me. Check, check, check, check, check. Oh boy. Now this is really boring, but we can talk about it if you want. Um Oh dear. Oh g oh my god. I'm I'm in sixes and sevens today, Alex. This can be the show if you want. You want this to be the show? I do want this to be the show, but I want you to qualify what is a six and a seven? What scale is this? Tech cha. I'm writing things down because I'll otherwise I'll forget them because I'm in sixes and sevens. Cha Cha Cha. I won't talk about that.

I wanna talk about my Choo Choo That's not what I said. Oh, you're riffing. See, this is a mess. No, I just like train noises. This is such a goddamn mess. Check, check, check. Okay. Um uh well get to get it out of the way, I have um you know that movie we use that phrase the perfect storm and um it's it's such a lively Oh my god, this has got to be louder. It's such it's such a it's such a lively phrase that I think most of us understand. They remember hearing something was a perfect storm, like in that movie. Where, you know, it's like if one really bad there's bad meteorolog things that are bad meteorology. Oh There's bad weather things that happen to people and land and whatnot. And sometimes those are really, really a big deal.

And then sometimes if you're unfortunate, you'll have two of those things happening that are kind of like creating a synergistic, a very unusual condition. But in the case of what came to be called the perfect storm, there were three of those things. So I feel like, boy, you are still way too loud. How do I change this? Oh got a new mnemonic. Instead of pre-PC, I say thee and me. Okay, there we go. There's the. This is me. Say something please. Are my levels still good? It's not you. It's not you, it's me. Okay. Okay. Well I did just I have you I used Zoom earlier today for the show. Oh my god, you sound louder, but that's because I think I've been I've been noodling. This show's a mess. I mean Zoom is a mess.

I used it earlier today. You're not understanding my storm. No. Alright, my seat back I'm in the upright position. Full and upright, full and upright. Upright and locked. Yeah. Yeah, we say everything twice. Full and complete stop. You know? How you doing? I'm doing great. How are you? Good. Oh, you sound great. Yeah. You know, I'm a sixes and sevens. Oh yeah, sixes and sevens. You gotta get learning that too. Um uh I un I well I unintentionally created a perfect storm by semi-intentionally doing several different things. Does that make sense? Okay. Yes. We're like I mean, maybe it's kind of like the way that dogs accidentally s s turn on an oven. It's a little bit, you know what I mean? Like people blame the dog for oven fires and maybe like okay yeah the the A the oven is bad that's one storm B, you have the sweet precious angel who just wants to know what's happening with the oven and explores it.

That's that's two. But then if you if you're storing, say, uh a lot of vintage books and your matchbook collection, for example, on top of the stove, because that's where you like to keep it. You know, John and I like to focus on the before the sixes and sevens, uh the Keep your keep your chair up upright before you go on. What is The dog oven story. We have not talked about this here. I am very familiar with the dog oven story. I'm not sure what I'm saying. Where I make fun of you. I'm very concerned that this show has started very, very badly and it's completely my fault. No, but if you're referencing the dog against the case. When they ask you a question, you start talking about something else.

So I wish you would have to be a good idea. The Cho Chuch Show we got tech, we got sixes and sevens, and we got the dog. There's a segment, I'm not sure quite how it started, but there's a segment that started on Reconcilable Differences a while back. Um I think John brought it to us. I don't remember. But the point of the story is that the there's this there's a kind of story where the historic uh we've noticed this kind of story in the last couple years, which is that, oh my God, you see a headline and it's like um something like dog starts uh oven fire Mm-hmm. It it it's worse than officer involved shooting. It's incredible. This is like a dog involved burning. Mm-hmm. No, technically I think it's a companion-involved poor choice of storage, but that's not as pithy.

But uh we kept seeing these stories and um a as I said in in a recent episode of Rec Diffs, listen. Like, if you want to have a show about how bad Samsung ovens are and how they shouldn't be so easy to turn on, that's your podcast. John and my podcast is instead to focus on a segment that we call Stop Blaming the Dog. Where there'll be this the story and the headline of the story, implying that the most important part of the story, the thing you need to know, if you can't read any of this article, we just need you to look at the headline and be aware of a thing that happened, which is that uh in in whatever place a dog started a fire in somebody's kitchen by turning on the oven. Okay? And I I I'm I'm gonna speak generally you mean the Winnipeg woman.

I think that's the one that's just the latest that's just the latest one. There's some that are worse. Oh dude. No, there's some that are way worse. That's just the latest one. But yeah, yeah, thank you for thank you for listening. Uh in that case, it was a woman in Winnipeg and her sweet precious angel. She has this terrible Samsung stove. That's a different podcast. The point is the that there are it is it it it happens that Shoulder. Um it happens that pe the that s okay, I'm gonna put this I'm gonna put this on passively. Um it does happen that for a variety of different kinds of reasons they hold hands, it's so cute. For a variety of kinds of reasons, sometimes an oven is unintentionally turned on to start making heat.

Um and that can be caused by lots of things. Um that we've worried about since, you know, before I was born as a little kid, um turning on like a burner on the top on the on the range. Reasonable fear. I mean another one is, and this is true, like you could accidentally walk by and kind of, if you're not careful, hit it with your hip and like do it or like Something I have done. Yeah. But one that comes up a lot, like I say, is that that a dog caused a fire. The the thread that John and I find through the stories that we cover is that the headline, the primary feature of the headline is that a dog started a fire. And in the cases that we study, and and this could be, you know, a case of, you know, uh, you know, a file file draw effect or whatever, but the ones that we focus on are where once you read down into the article a little bit, There's a role to the fire where the dog may get blamed, but it was often a person who made some kind of an error or some poor choices.

Mm-hmm. So one that comes up to the case. I wouldn't say error. This is uh there were choices made. Yeah, and in the in the case of this lady in Winnipeg, and I I I think this is actually a a pretty interesting as the as I saw in the program. I think it's pretty interesting as the stories go. And I do feel I feel terrible for that woman and her terrible Samsung range. But anyways, um, she didn't know that there'd been this big recall of these Samsung Ranges, whatever. And her sweet precious angel um one time accidentally uh turned on the oven. I'll try to make this quick, sorry. We are still gonna do it. We can't prove that it was accidental, can we though? I'm just saying. Well, she says the dog's dumb And I say, well, if a dog was smart, he wouldn't turn it on.

I mean I guess it depends on how you measure smartness. That's well that's why I say we don't know th if it was an action. Okay, how about this? I don't know if he's smart, but if he were wise, he wouldn't have turned it on. All right. I yes. But that's a lot to expect out of a Canadian dog. True. Exactly. Exactly. And then you get down a few paragraphs and you see that there was a book. On the rangetop. So when the oven was turned off and she had gone to work and everything was fine and Buster was at home by himself except for the cat, um that Buster had turned on the knob. In other cases, it's stuff like, you know, the dog wants to smell what's cooking or whatever, or but in a s in a shocking number of these cases where the dog started the fire according to the headline you discover that there was what I will call kindling or other poor choices that im with the person.

So a dish towel, somebody left it leaves a dish towel on the range when it's turned off, they leave this woman had literally left a book. on her rangetop. And she had a fire. Now, the thing about this headline that makes it extra fun, I don't have it in front of me, but it was that uh bla bla blah blah blah Winnipeg uh do woman's dog starts a kitchen fire. M dash twice. And we find out later on, you know, this is blah blah blah. Now we get to the real nut of this, which is that these Samsung ranges turn on way too easy, and their solutions for fixing it have been lame. And That it happened again. And and this is, I think, where the story takes an interesting turn, is it happened a second time.

And so, okay, well, what's the deal? I thought you were gonna get those knob locks. To not lock your knobs, because of course, wouldn't you always want to have locks on your knobs, you know, because that'll make it real convenient for everybody. But yeah, Samsung, whatever. They're they're they're a successful company from South Korea. Second time she said the dog started buster started to fire again. Okay, now listen, in fairness, I had been storing things. that were inflammable inside the oven. Now you're asking yourself, oh, is it a book? No, she's not that dumb. No, no, uh she had, it was either crackers or potato chips that she had left. in the oven and Alex would you like to share with our audience no this is a person now who has had their dumb dogs supposedly dumb dogs start a fire because she left a book on top of the range don't want that to happen again And the reason so far well so far it's happened twice.

The second time it happened, she admitted she'd been storing some chips and uh like like cookies and stuff i in the in the in the range. Why had she put them in the oven in particular? Well, because her supposedly dumb dog would have gotten into the food, I believe. So right? She was using it. Yeah. I'm not really sure that's a security measure. So this sweet precious angel, Buster, he's a dog sense of smell. You think an oven, you tell me, you think an oven door is gonna stop a d a sweet doggy sense of smell? This is where I I think maybe he is a dumb dog because he wasn't able to get in. So, you know, she might be right. Right? I mean honestly yes. Honestly. Honestly, yes. This is known. We've looked at we've looked at we've looked at crows.

We've looked at ravens. We've looked at the the the New Zealand, I think it's called the Kia bird. There are a lot of birds out there that are operating on a level that most people don't even want to be thinking about. Oh no. It's like once you start thinking about octopuses, game over. Oh yeah. I feel like we've got vaginas. Uh it really feels like it's a bit of a casserole down there. I need a map and a sherpa. I need a Tenzing Norge. Go, go back to the dog. Go back to the dumb, stupid, stupid dog. I just thought it was funny. Uh-uh. I mean funny. I I again I want to clarify. I this chicken voice can just suck a bag of dicks. I'm just gonna say this. Maybe the thing maybe the thing The the that your dog and she hadn't said her dog and cat.

She was trying to keep away from her dog and cat. And I understand that, chicken voice, but maybe don't bait your oven with the thing that makes the dog want to interact with it. Yeah, Syracusa was too generous w with this because hi I believe he said uh you know I understand small kitchen places you Need to put stuff my family kept stuff in the oven. But nothing flammable. But uh we uh you put it stuff in the oven that would go in the oven when it was in use, right? Like the stuff that yes, stuff that had been r ruggedized for the difficult environment of heat. Ex exactly. Unlike saying a book. Yes. And obviously. And y people might be saying, uh yin you know uh Chi chi chips can go in an oven, cookies can like whatever.

Uh but I uh the story isn't clear. At least. Well even if they weren't inflammable, Alex, why would you it still feels like you're baiting a trap. Even even if you were putting in um something that was, I don't know, maybe it's a pan the dog likes to lick, like I still wouldn't put anything in there that interests the animals. That's me. No, no. Could you put it in like a high cabinet or something? Yes. And I I I should show Yeah, Syracuse a photograph of of my kitchen because I'm like, I w why are you defending this woman? Especially because we see a photograph oh a video of her kitchen in fact. John, email Alex, not me I yes, John John, I hope you're listening. Be because my my job it turns out is not to do podcasts, but mainly to to pass along messages from one of my co-hosts to another.

I've come to remote. But I I wanted to share something very upsetting with you and and our audience and hopefully John. Um I was listening to the delightful episode of Recdiffs. Isn't that a good one? Did you like my Summer and Trauma story? Wasn't that good? No, it was sad. I mean, yes. Does that help you better understand my relationship with heat and sun? Yes, uh well uh I thought that I had, but uh this made me um m understand even more how traumatic uh bit aside traumatic the beats. how you made me feel bad about it. Yes. That's that's the Bessel Vanderkook part, I feel like. I I have a uh uh well It's one thing to have an anvil fall on your head. And it's another thing, like in a cartoon, and another thing for everybody around you to go, well, it's your fault that you didn't enjoy the anvil falling on your head.

Everybody else likes Anvil Day everybody else likes Anvil Day. It's like did he retire Anvil Day Lewis? Is he out? I don't know who the Yeah, he's back. He's coming back. He's coming back to acting after six years away. Uh is he gonna be uh John Wil Wilkes booth? No, he's gonna do the follow-up, my right foot. Are you done talking to John? I thought that uh it might have been real for a second. No now I'm talking to you. I like him in Lincoln. I like him in I like him in the the um uh the Daniel Plainview movie. Um I like him in a lot of movies. I've never seen my beautiful launderette. I neither have I. Hmm. Hey John. Uh hey Merlin. You created a domestic situation in the Cox ho household. I created a domestic situation in the Cox household.

Yes. Do you want me to send send some kind of special services over to interview people? I uh my spouse keeps. I could show you on the Indigo Girls doll where they touched you. Is it closer to fine or further to fine? Closer to fine, further to fine. It's Question one. Have you recently seen a Doctor of Divinity? Oh, I've watched too many Epstein documentaries for Fill. Oh, did you watch Filthy Rich? How much do you love the Farmer Sisters? How much do you adore the Farmer Sisters? Yeah. She's such a good painter. Holy fucking shit, she's a good painter. God. And her little sister's so sweet, and she's stuck on an island with those ding-alings. You're hitting Yeah, no, you are you are hitting all of the points w of what I am calling Alex's weekly revelations that are inspired by you.

Ooh, and this includes Yes. I'm uh listen, I'm I'm gonna uh be annoying and say we are keeping it for for the after show so that you have energy for the after show and because I want to hear about your manual. Uh my my weekly revelations that you inspired. Oh, thank you for the first time. And can I just say documentaries? Woof. One of us will cut this out, but I um As much as much as I I think I've said to you as recently as yesterday afternoon, I really don't understand your attention. I'm very grateful for your friendship and I never wanted to go unsaid. Uh how much I deeply appreciate that you like what I do. It it you're like one of the few people that likes it and it makes me really happy.

So thank you. You're a problem. Okie dokie. What are the other things you're not supposed to say? I got the manual here in front of me. Other things you're not supposed to say. Let's see, creamer filled with half and half, wash towels separately. Boy, there's a lot of stuff about washing machines in here. You know where camera only appears in here twice? And they're both about consumer cameras. They never mention that there's cameras everywhere watching you and watching everybody else. I guess maybe that's already exactly that that's what my thing was. I'm like, oh, so we're not gonna go into the charging aspect of that? Like is that another staff? Is there another manual? Oh charging the cameras.

Yeah, like you can't. But but but who heard what what happens when, you know, there's a perfect storm and uh something is taken out? The maybe it's an EMP plus some Girl Scouts brook down nearby. It's the kind of thing where you're like, oh no, what the heck? Maybe that caused the bus crash. No. Wanna wear a merit badge? Mr. Epstein, Mr. Epstein, Mr. Oh, you don't say, here's what you don't say. You don't say, yeah, sure, no problem, you bet. Gotcha, right, I don't know. Right. That's what Harry Dean Stanton says in Alien. Every time he says something, you say right. Right. You created another household situation with Alien. I I s watched the first episode, loved it, and started the second. Yes, Wendy.

Oh my god, isn't Wendy amazing? Absolutely. Every one of these people is so good at playing a little kid in an adult body. Yes. It could be so easy to fuck that up. But those two guys, the two guys, the like the um The Indian guy who ends up in an Indian body and the black guy who ends up in a black those two guys, the two of them together are so awesome. And they all have funny Peter Pan names. How cute is nibs, can you see why nibs is my girlfriend? Uh the big lips and the eyes. Okay, okay. I've I've only seen the first episode, so I'm not sure Alex failures. We've still got a lot to talk about from the first thirty seconds. We've got Alex's revelations in the after show. Yes. We'd appreciate your support if you go to giveasyourfucking money.

com. You can give us a little money, which we could really use. And um and listen to the after show which is I think usually pretty fun. And then what is it? Oh oh oh also domestics I'm causing domestics. Uh yeah yeah and with and we're saving that for the after show too alien alien scary don't like watching oh my fucking god I watched episode five last night oh my goodness this I I I I like the A I like the show and B I won't hear a word against it You were okay, so let me go back on the stack a little bit. Anvil Day Lewis. The dog. Oh, did you wanna did you want to pick back up with the dog? Are we good with that? Uh just Well, which what I'm trying to say is look, I life is complicated. Mm-hmm.

Let's take that as red. But like don't don't blame your sweet precious dog. And um so a perfect storm can can be like these three I think of it when you say when one says perfect storm and you really mean it I think of that as this is my phrase for this, three at least unusual and perhaps anomalous events. that end up having a I don't know what the opposite of synergy is uh have a synergistic reaction so I did three dumb tech things one I did mmm I did mmm. I did put 26. I put 26 on. It's been on everything except my main computer and now it's on my main computer. Oh my condolence. No, no, no, no, no. That's all fine. I don't think that's a problem. So I'm trying to make myself use spotlight more.

And it's frustrating me a little bit. Um the other thing was I just updated the wonderful um audio hijack app. There's no I just said this to John Syracuse a minute ago. Like I and I can't talk about betas when they're in beta, but I I will say that there's not a company. I mean, there's a lot of companies and people in the Mac and Apple community that I revere. I mean, obviously people like Greg from Agile Torres are high up there. There's a lot of people, but like Nobody nobody fucking like hustles like Rogue Amoeba to keep up and has more need to hustle to like keep up with Apple's bullshit. Yes. And because of what they do. And there's stuff in like upcoming releases where they've gotten around some crazy Apple stupidity that I'm very excited about.

So, okay, I did that, I did that, now here's the other thing, here's the third thing, and this is where I'm very concerned, is I touched my USB Pre. Oh no. Now what do we know about Merlin? Well well, there's some things you know about me. You t tend to touch yourself, but not when I think about you, I touch myself. I don't want anybody else, Alex. It's yes, yes, reference and acknowledged. What what happened to the pre? Well, all three of my primary hosts that I talked to come across at extremely different volumes. And I usually just don't sweat it. And I usually usually my audio is very low in the amount that's in the final mix. And so I reached down and I turned a knob. There's there's there's like there's five knobs on this thing, three big ones, two little ones.

And the two little ones, I can never remember which is which. So I just grabbed one and changed. As it turned out, that's the output one. Which because of my dip switch configuration dip switch fudge bucket because of my dip switch configuration don't do nothing. Um but di I've been trying to work on my pre PC, which I'm always you know, I don't know if you know this, Alex, I'm always dealing with my pre-pc. Because that's how I didn't know that. Well, PVC is much it's a dial that if you turn it all the way to the left, all you'll hear in your cans Let me get this right. If you I think it's dial all the way to the left, all you'll hear is yourself, dial all the way to the right. Think of it as a crossfader almost, like a real-time crossfader between the two sides of the conversation.

And that's just to get the mix of what you're hearing right. You've muted. Are you okay? Oh, I am. I wasn't doing a bit. Zoom updated and now I'm really loud and I can hear Things outside this is this is boring. Yeah. Well, you're you're a lot louder and I like it. Yeah. Um I gotta change my pre PC again. Okay. I'm gonna do this a little bit. Hey everybody. Welcome to my friend. It's a weekly challenge podcast where people uh don't really understand how to do their job. Such as this. I was proud of myself though, because you uh text uh texted me like need more time. Like, nope, nope, I'm good to go. And I even uh set uh I used Zoom and audio hijack earlier today and I fiddled with some stuff and I it was very it was very exciting uh because I have the same issue with loop back, which is it's not audio high or sorry, not audio.

It's not Rogue Meba's fault. I just want to do that. But loop back loop back and sound source and all these other things, they're they're incredibly useful, especially those two though, can introduce things that can be difficult to track down through no fault of theirs, but just because the what would you call it? The uh s I don't know, the signal path or whatever, just because the the the complexity of going from in my case this microphone to, you know, a recording. There's a it passes, it touches a lot of pieces. It it does. And you may not even know that if you never oh God, I hope you never have to open that stupid MIDI sound settings thing, but you realize like, ugh, there's a lot going on under the hood here.

It's like trying to fix your own engine or something. Which is why, oh Paul, I know sometimes you hear Paul. I was early and I'm like, hey, um gonna open Zoom and be right on time because I know Merlin likes that. And then suddenly Well you you you do it because it's a sign of character, not because I like it. Uh, because to you it's very much a sign of character and I love it. That's why you do it, because you know it's a sign of character. Because I know it's a sign of character. Sign of character. Sign of character. Uh and then z even though you need to sleep. So it pops up. You got Zoom. And Zoom, what does Zoom say to you? Zoom says you need a bigger meeting room and also It was like you need an up Zoom needs to update.

Because normally it's like, would you like to update? This is the first time. Nope, need to update. And now it's a Zoom workplace and I'm really loud and I'm I was I'm so I'm just, you know, I don't I still don't know what six or seven is, but I think I might be there. I I might be around there. But any cut cut that cut that Hi, this is Do You Buy Friday. Go ahead. Next, the next issue. Um, do you like okay, so like when I was coming up Like the every time somebody walked up to a microphone, yes, there'd be feedback. Um, but then also they would say something like testing one, two. Do you have a compulsive thing that you say every time? You get ready to use your microphone or to record a show.

Do you have something that you compulsively say every time to make sure that your mic is turned on I uh say what I had for breakfast, which is just in radio. Yeah, it's an alright. You actually do that? Yeah, and usually it's I usually forgetting the level of a guest who doesn't know how to use a mic. The well know thyself. That's what Descartes should have said. I err, therefore I am. Mm-hmm. What do you say when you go up to a man? Really? Yeah. Oh, so you y I just I just know here's what I need. I need to see these little running lights. I need to see these little running lights move. Yes. So I can see there's a signal coming in and I go ch chacause I you know as you as you might know I mute mute I can use here that cuts out most but not all of the signal.

Has anybody who's ever heard slightly heard me sneeze? Or hakaluogie. That's because the uh the foot pedal. And it's made by what's cool is it's like a rat pedal and it's made by the same people who make rat pedals, which is kind of cool. Rat pedal was the inexpensive distortion box everybody had in uh high school. For guitars. I was actually gonna say that sounds so much cooler than the other. Oh, it was very cool. Oh, this looks this does holy shit, this looks cool. Was it the w Oh the Chicago rat distortion fuzz pedal? What the fuck is the Well look, I think it's called I think they're called ProCon now, but they used to have two and now I think it's got three knobs. Look for something like distortion, f filter, and volume maybe?

Yes, there's a number of these. Yeah, distortion is the amount of chonk you got in it. Filter is like a sweep of ranges for what gets through and then volume is how much comes out. Now a guy I used to play in bands with, um, which doesn't really adequately credit how different our skill levels were. My friend Stephen. My friend Stephen who tried out for uh Foo Fighters told that wonderful story about trying out for Foo Fighters. Find that story. Stephen Fox. Stephen Fox Foo Fighters is a wonderful story he wrote. And uh we used to play in um he was in the popular band in town Flanders and I was in um the the uh cult band, Bacon Ray, but we both played in a band called Parachute Pants where we covered 80s songs.

And he would do this thing. I learned about this from Stephen. I don't think he invented this. But he would run like two kinds of distortion where he would have his like Marshall. Set to a certain level that was like a clean but chonk. And then but he could all but he could have like a pedal that he would kick in just for the solo. I always thought that was really smart. And a rap pedal was great for that. You could do a lot with a rap pedal. Boy, this is a terrible episode. What did you okay, I am? That wasn't my my main one. I used a really lame distortion pedal called a boss distortion slash feedback pedal. So on bacon ray recordings, you'll hear sometimes at the end of a song it goes because I'm making faking feedback with my uncostly pedal.

This also looks like a cute one. Okay. Yeah, I know. I it's so that's what the new iPhone might look like. Um Oh wait, did you go the ch ch ch was that f because like is it a holdover from Bacon Ray these days? What? No, no, no. Did you t do a t like test one, two, one, two? Because you sang Well, I've got I've got a lot of private mind motions or whatever it's called. And um, you know, like and there's things that I say, like I don't know if you ever noticed this, but I don't this is something I think probably started on Roderick, but sometimes I'll take my beverage and I'll take a drink. And then realheads will know that for whatever reason sometimes there's a thing that I say after that, which is this.

I go chica chica And and what I'm doing there is I'm quoting um the Day Bao Bao song from the 80s. Day Bao Bao Chica chica. Oh shit, day bow boop. Um and also uh that's also something that my uh my mother-in-law used to say sometimes. Um there's there's a there's a phrase I've never really exactly specifically known the meaning of, but I think I know have you ever heard the phrase traveling music? No. I first heard it When Jackie Jackie Gleason would this is how old I am. Jackie Gleason, when he had his variety show, would come out and he, you know, Jackie Gleason, he's like, like the one of the biggest comics in TV and he'd and he'd say and away we go. But before he he he'd say he'd say to his band leader, uh, whatever, Martinez, uh a little traveling music.

And that would be the music that he would play to like walk over to the desk. Traveling music, I think of, I've heard that as I don't know if it's true, and I'm gonna look it up eventually, but traveling music, but I think There's a version of traveling music, maybe a better term would be interstitial music. And I have a variety of interstitial ticks. One I picked up from my friend Dan. One I picked up from my friend Dan that I think is a direct predecessor of Got That Got That is when Dan was in the middle of doing something or walking from one place to another go, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And I picked that up and now I do that. It's a form of traveling music. It's a form of interstitial filler. Um, do you have things like this?

Or can you could you become aware of whether you have things like that? Do you have things you say when you're doing something? I'm not sure if you're not going to be able to do that. Scoot scoot and I uh do have a s a s little song I sing at red lights when people are honking at each other and angry, but I don't have like y You sing it to yourself out loud. I am my one card guys next car goes. One car goes, next car goes. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's hear that again, please. One car Goes, next cargoes, one cargoes, next cargoes look at a stop sign Yeah. When there's there's traffic and uh the like everybody is angry, but I am not participating yet in the It it is and I'm putting it out into the world like it's okay.

We just we know the rules of the road. Everything everything's fine. Um There's a song I used to sing to my baby. uh that used to make my baby laugh a little bit and um and I that's sometimes I'll do that when I'm in an automobile and I would say I would the baby would do something the the the youngster would do something and I'd say your Ah bad person, not a good person, you're a bad and they've gah ha laughed. I and I sometimes sing that song at people who are driving automobiles. I say. This is a trend I think where people are saying um the Yes, there's there's a n new trend, and by new I mean as long as I I've Noticed it. Where the world is young. When when you are upset with someone or something, And and they can't understand you just sing at it or say like um l just sometimes with my cats I sing at the end.

I'm just like oh you're you need to put some clothes on. Isn't that what he's singing is it pink or Kelly Clarkson? What's the song he's singing at the at the Korean spa? Chris Fleming when he when he's naked at the spawn makes it stronger than a little longer as what doesn't kill you makes it stronger than a little longer. Those shirts are for babies. He was on Conan this week and it was really, really good. I uh I I watched it. It is don't you I I wish Conan would find a way to sometimes talk a little bit less about himself. But I've two I have two thoughts on this. First of all, Chris Fleming is fucking uh you know what? I'll I will stand alone on this. This. I think he's one of the funniest people alive.

And I think he's one of the most interesting funny people alive. I love how squirmy and wormy he is. Um, and I thought he was great on there, and I thought he was very funny. So the big point one, I love how much Conan obviously seems to like love him, but I also wonder, I wonder, because I feel like I've seen this happen before with Conan, do you think maybe Chris Fleming's going to do some kind of Cocoa project? Yes. I don't know why I think that, but I do. It really all felt it felt like almost like not a tryout or something, but the kind of thing you'd see right before they announce that he's gonna have a Ted Danson show. Oh, yeah, I got the vibe of not a try-out person. I've never heard him speak so much in what I a s well, I won't say it's his natural speaking voice, but I've never heard him speak quite so much He has a actually a very low voice, a really good radio voice, Chris Fleming.

Yes. And I hadn't I'd never really thought about that before. Yeah, it it makes me want Dave Dave Dave it puts seashells on the doorknobs, company's coming It's it's not the other way we can't have people know that we sat Oh the little pony shoe fell off. Remember when the bottom falls off the bar stool? Oh the grain goes this way. I believe that Conan got the uh um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Oh, you think he got him um uh Chris Fleminghell? Not not got, but you know, like an NBC, like yeah, because uh Chris Weming didn't really blow up and I I still don't know how he's still so cult. I can't believe how I mean it's just weird.

Okay, so first of all, I want to take it as red. Chris Filming is not for everybody. And part of what makes him special to me is how fucking weird he is. But this interview in particular, like we I think we've talked before about how it's funny, he has funny word choices or flubs that he makes sometimes. Like, why did he say Night Watchman instead of security guard? And like, you know, Mulaney doesn't do that. Well, I think I think he may be making up a fair amount more on stage than I'd realized. Like I think the like this is very one woman show, I think that's worked out ahead of time. Obviously the people you want to be poly aren't poly. That's all like ahead of time. But I think he's he's got it seems like he's got shapes for bits, but then he fills it in in the moment, adding that zest of like anxiety on stage to make it very clear Chris Fleming.

Yeah, what I hadn't realized was how his heightened character is fueled by his anxiety. which uh is hard to l and and you think like well yeah that's a stand up thing. Like th people get anxious and then it just accelerates. But no, it really is like people who do that for a long time though don't generally professionals don't generally rely on that to have that be their like Bobcat Goldthwaite's not actually like that. I mean I don't I don't know how much you know about Bob Gold but Bobcat Goldthwaite now he came up with the I first became aware of him around the time I became aware of, say, Sam Kinnison and uh Steven Wright, who who, you know, like Mitch Hudberg, like have a character, like have a bit.

You know, and Bob Cut, he was always like the the super keyed up guy. Or like Emo Phillips. I doubt Emo Phillips is like that if you go out for Chinese food. I do not know who that is, but I'm not sure. He's a kind of a guy who talks like this. Amo Phillips. Oh, the haircut guy. Haircut guy. Yeah, the her her car guy. Uh what so you think he's as a fan of Chris, you think he's already like kinda like pulling for the guy? I hope so because like this is l like you said, it i he's relatively cultish still, but it's at this point where uh like yeah, this c cult comedian Chris Fleming i is awesome, but everyone I know knows who he is and enjoys him. You know, like I think people know uh there are people who know Gail.

Especially, right? I mean, at least among well, I mean among like internet people, because he wouldn't you put him in that I didn't know this at the time, but He like started off most he says he did stand-up starting in high school, which I'm guessing was a theater school. Um but he uh in Stowe Mass. Um, but he don't be creepy, but he said he started doing stand-up in high school, right? And worried that he like w like wasn't like weird enough. But like I feel like I it's weird, like as much as he is That's how you know it was at theater school. I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm like that's what made me think that exactly. But like, you know, like I and I say don't say this to diminish Nate Bargatz or however you pronounce it, but like he should be as big as that guy.

Like he should be as big as maybe, I don't know, like a Jim Gaffigan or something. Like 'cause he's got in the same way that like And I'm not trying to just pin him as being a queer performer, but like if you look at people, especially in music, or like people who've been on RuPaul's drag race, there are people like he could be like a Billy Porter level of fame, definitely, I feel like. They kind of addressed this on uh or in in the interview where he's like, I mean, yeah, now I just zzz Some I I can't make Philly like me and uh throw batteries at you. That's true, you know. You know in the seventies in the seventies the Philadelphia they used to throw batteries at at players on the field. Wait, that's not a good thing.

That's a true story. People in Pittsburgh would throw a D cell battery at Dave Concepcion. Hey, no es bueno. Battery drawing it's okay. Got your batteries? We're going to the game. You get your beatries? Um, i the way that Chris Fleming ha at least has talked about performing and uh uh grow like growing his audience and when he decides to retire bits. I I wish I remember where this was, but he talked about like ending Gale and uh focusing. Where's Gale? Yeah. Pending with their elbows. Where's the new gal? Because I just knew it was I lotta you know I create things for YouTube. I just found out I'm I I'm a huge problem. Sorry, sorry, go ahead. I I'm obsessed with that. Movies I I I knew of him through Gail, but had not seen any of his stand-up stuff until you introduced me.

Probably through that Chris Fleming Hell thing on Peacock. I think it yeah, it was hell. And then I And so just to drop the bit for a minute, I'm always bugging you because we don't have the same memory or we don't watch the same media things as much, but like the re I'm always razzing you because like I I when I saw Chris Fleming Hell uh and then saw I think it was a colon in there and then saw Show Pig on YouTube. Like I I was just like, this is for me, I have to say, it was like when I saw Naked Babies. one of the first time I saw very good improv in person was Rob Cordry um in his group Naked Babies. And I even though I was a man in my late 30s at that point. I I was like, you know, it's like one of those stories you hear, like uh like a Fablemans type situation where I was like, oh my God, this can be so special if you know or like oh oh man, I'm watching something that is very and that's how I felt You know the Tom Fatcat stuff, remember where he goes and meets the or where there's a new day of the week they want him to try and promote.

And then of course the the theater bobb bobbers. You know, with his his hi those Twizzler pull on peels he could dock a boat. Oh god. Wait this way this the president of the airline doing the commercial. Revel is what makes us human. You guys, that that's from the one show pig. That's in that's in hell. And he's talking about the videos you watch where like They have actors the vet where you're on a plane and they show you the pre-flight video and here's how to put on your mask and and they have to they always show that's true. I've always thought this. Then they they cut they show all these like especially when they had that uh that that that uh that that redhead on Delta, woof. You know? I used to love to fly and it shows.

And uh but the then then there's one part at the end where there'll be like an old man old man sitting at a desk and it's always jarring. It's not jarring that he's like not a professional per se. It's jarring that the tone of this whole thing has been so consistent, like here's our flight stuff. It's very much about branding in some ways. Like remember the Virgin America videos where the nun has brought a Lynxis router on the plane, the animation? Like those those are very heavy like branding opportunities in some ways. The redhead and Delta, like that was a branding opportunity. But it always has to end. with this fucking mummy sitting at a desk going, thank you for choosing United. We happy blah blah I wonder.

Help me decide. I don't actually wonder. I've only thought about it once, uh because I don't usually fly united, but I it was so jarring. Then I'm like, is this the new way they get us to pay attention because you know, we're not looking at the right. Virgin America used to have like a whole dance routine. They had, remember like They had like I remember hearing of the first thing. Virgin America first America I remember the early Virgin ones were an animation that was completely delightful. And then they did one that was just a full-on like dance. The entire video was a complicated dance routine. With like and there's a woman in it who's like a um what's that word? A uh we stretch your body, you're a not a gymnast, but a contortionist.

Oh, there's a contortionist woman in it that's very memorable. Anyways. Why does this exist? Was this the like invi uh inva I think I'm more cynical and less excited about this than EU. This well, because it's gone now, right? It's it's all Alaskan or or Blue or I Do you understand that events in that past don't disappear just because they aren't available anymore? Well You still had that experience. It's just that you're young and you don't know things. It's I agree. Well, you're gonna be 35 this week. I think I saw it. Is today your birthday? Today today's my birthday. Today's your birthday. Um I uh yes fuck me. Fuck me. I got uh well I'm not gonna get you a present. But I got um I got the I got the reminder two days ago and I forgot to say something.

Happy birthday, Alex. I did prepare this song for you. Okay, everybody. No, there's no song. There's no song. Thank okay. Good. Uh when you came from a vagina such a long, long time ago. Thirty-five years, thirty-five beers and Oh boy. I um this is not something I am I am Guys, I'm sorry, but af after show. I have a question for you because I received something and I don't know if you sent it to me. Do you want to about sixes and sevens and we'll close it? Hold on, hold on. I d I don't know if you sent it to me, but I know that you know what it is and I have some questions. Okay. Okay, stop. Please tell me that it's a good question. Okay, then let's do this. So what you're telling me you made a rustling noise Are you on a computer right now or your phone?

I am on a computer. Okay, and you and you just rustled something around and you're about to ask me if it you think it might be something that I sent to you and you're asking about that. I'm I'm not. I'm saying I will be asking you that. I'm mentioning I am saying a question that I will be asking you. I'm at sixes and sevens. I don't know. Um, that's an old phrase. I wanna peg it to probably the thirties. Um Sixes and sevens, it's usually people I think I I don't know it might be Cockney Rhyme Rhyming Slang, I don't think so. But it's a way of saying, and I'm gonna give you in a minute, I'm gonna give you a musical number uh that you'll know it from. Um Oh, it's a very long title. Uh it's like I'm at the end of my rope.

Oh, I'm at sixes and sevens. Sixes. And you never heard that before, right? No, I thought it was going to be a few. At sixes and sevens. Oh, here we go. Oh, oh shit, this is great. This is gonna be a thing. I'm I can already tell from the length of this uh internet science page that this is gonna be a a thing it took me too long to realize. At sixes and sevens is an English as in the country, English or the language? Mouse over. English language. English language idiom used to describe a condition of confusion or disarray. It's not known for certain, but the most likely origin of the phrase is the dice game hazard, a more complicated version of craps. Oh seven come eleven gets you nothing. Huh.

Yeah. I don't know why this is exciting to me. Well, I know why it's exciting because you just learned something and that tickles your brain. Well yeah, because it's it's uh just a one of those those weird little things. It it's like um I've I've I think Things like this make me feel the way uh I felt when I could finally get back from Like I'd be out and listening to music on my iPod and oh god, this does make me sound old. And I'd be like, I don't know what the lyrics to this R and it is driving me mockers. And then I'd go and imagine living in a time when you just didn't know what the lyrics to songs were and couldn't find them out. I I mean I did I did for a whole like one year. It wa it was a dark dark time.

Then the internet. Yeah Well I had to be supervised on the internet so I couldn't look up Green Day lyrics otherwise Okay. Please. This is not that interesting. Um, you know how like in old Broadway songs, especially in like old like Cole Porter songs, there'll be like uh there's a part that you usually these days you usually don't hear at the beginning of the song, which is kind of like an introduction. Like you know, most of us are like if you know uh probably one of my all-time favorite songs, certainly one of my favorite American songbook songs. Um, night and day, you are the one. It's only you beneath the moon and under the sun. Right? You know that song Night and Day. Nope, but it'll be in notes.

You don't know Night and Day by Cole Porter. Okay. Well it actually still in that case this is totally ineffective, but it starts like this, like the beep beep beat of the tom tom where the it's got like an introduction. So like if you listen to the um um what's her name? Who's the jazz singer I like? Uh, you know, the Ella Fitzgerald. She was in the Ella Fitzgerald version, she does the beginning. So before we get into the part of the song you might know, I'm gonna I'm gonna just read you this part. It won't be easy. You'll think it's strange. When I try to explain how I feel, that I still need your love after all that I've done. You won't believe me. All you will see is a girl you once knew.

Although she's dressed up to the nines at sixes and sevens with you. Oh Don't cry for me, Argentina. The truth is I never left you. Damn. That is Although she's dressed up to the nines at sixes and sevens with you. That's so Good. Now is that Andrew Lloyd Reb Weber did the music for that, right? I'm not. But it's probably Tim Rice. I bet Tim Rice did the lyrics, right? He's the he's the Bernie Toppin of that operation, right? I bet that was funny, but I don't know the Bernie Toppin is the guy who wrote all the lyrics for Elton John. Uh Elton I have to do that. Oh, did you okay now were you aware of that? Did you know that Elton John is not the lyricist for their best his his best known songs?

No. Yeah, I yeah, I don't like love him, but I'm like, ah, yay, Elton John. I it's funny because this doesn't make me like Elton John less. But like the truth, the truth is I never met you. Not in my No, but like uh Bernie Toppin. So, so like Bernie Toppin, so like you hear that you hear the song. And it's like you think it's an Elton John song, right? Well, let me just let's just read this. I'm not gonna sing it, but let's just read this and and think about these lyrics. So goodbye, Yellow Brick Road. where the dogs of society howl, you can't plant me in your penthouse. I'm going back to my plow. Back to the howlin' old owl in the woods, hunting the horny backed toad, I finally decided my future lies beyond the yellow brick road.

Some fucking great lyrics. And pretty gay too, which is why uh um or at least. What do you think you'll what do you think you'll do then? I bet they shoot down the plane I'll it'll take you a couple of vodka and tonics to set you on your feet again, or as they say again. Um maybe you'll get a replacement. There's plenty like me to be found. Mongrels who ain't got a penny, sniffin' for tidbits like you on the ground. Doesn't that have great lyric? I'm kind of shocked. So what you assume I don't like. No, no, no, but you just never thought about it, right? It just seemed like it's an Elton Johnson. Elton John obviously read the lyrics, right? I no, I I did sort of th think about yeah, I would think like, oh, I wonder what in inspired this, especially because Elton John was the one of the first You know, Tiny Dancer is about is Tiny Dancer is about uh a lady friend of Bernie's.

The uh Oh really? I think so, yeah. Oh my goodness. I am. This is Oh my god. Look at the oh I'm sorry. I just all I want to do is talk about these. Count the headlights on the highway. Um, okay. Um at sixes and sevens with you. So that's why I'm at sixes and sevens. Perfect storm. The first 30 seconds or so of this terrible, terrible episode. ended up really, really kind of um uh directing the rest of the the episode up till now I think. Is there anything we missed? It's your birthday. Um it's your birthday. It's your birthday. It's your birthday Cha-cha-cha tech sixes and sevens dog anvil day uh Alex's revelations uh and causing domestic things that'll be in the after show. Yes, yes, and um a gift or a Oh shit.

Is that after show too? Yes, that is after show. Um The uh I I am just curious about what you you did for this challenge. If you did any anything or I mean it's it's a big Jeffrey Epstein day too. Well I just caught out of the side of my corner of my side of my eye that more stuff was released but there's nothing interesting. Is that right? Is that what you're talking about? I saw speculation uh yesterday that it wouldn't be interesting, but then a bunch of stuff happened yesterday and then talk about people. Oh, n no, because of the whole uh Trump being like, Yeah, we're gonna send uh the National Guard to Chicago. So people Pritzker did it. Pritzker Pritzka's response to that was really sane.

I uh uh as I've said many, many times here, uh, on other shows, in my daily life, I think it is really genuinely like unhealthy to have like a stan situation. with politicians. But it's really hard for me not to really like JB Pritzker a lot. Well, I mean he he You know, I don't want to talk about politics. I just I think he did a really good I think he did a very good job In a way that Gavin Newsom is not. Like, sure, J sure they're all gonna they're all obviously gonna run for president. Let's take that as red. Or they're gonna try to run for president. But here's the thing. Like he was actually laying something out in a way That is sensible and up and above the bullshit in a way it's very difficult to be above the bullshit.

Whereas Gavin's like embraced that now and he's got bits. And it's like, I'm scared, I am scared shitless about what is going to happen to this state because now of You know, making us a target. That's th so that's my uh for for years. I in including w with you, I've I haven't heard anything from friends in California except oh god, Gavin Gavin News. Yeah, yeah. Um and I don't like saying I hate people, but I will say I hate this bit. I like if there was zero. Oh you don't you don't you don't like the well at least Trump will be good for comedy, right? I hate it So you don't like you don't like his his saucy I think whoever's writing them is doing a good job. I don't think it's effective. Oh disagree.

No. I think he gets the tone. They get the tone right doing it. I d mm, I don't see them except when they are discussed on TV shows. So I I can't speak to that. You might be seeing a lot of that a lot more than because you are so underwater with the internet. I am not. I'm so excited. I was on a loud boat. I wasn't. Yes, I was on a I was oh I don't understand your attention. Never understand that. Oh why? Uh my attention. Because because you you get incredibly worked up about very, very obscure things that have very little impact on things that are real. And then but you but when actually something real is happening, you seem very uninterested in it. I was interested I had You're in a you're in a loud bus.

I was on the a butt. Yes, I I don't know how I was watching the the press uh the the pr uh excuse me, I was watching the press conference and then Th I had to switch from a train to a bus. The bus was left. Alright, it's not that good. Let's drop the bit. I'm sorry. I know it's not that good, but I that is why my attention seems to wander because I wandered the city. No it's not. It's not that's not why, but I I take your point. But then I I just because something happened doesn't mean it shows something. I Wait, yes, that is literally showing where my attention is going. And so and so as ever, if I can produce a transcript, I can prove something. But the pattern of behavior the pattern of behavior over five, six, seven, eight years is not germane so much as something that happened one afternoon.

Wait, what do you think about the I'm at sixes and sevens with you, Blue Jean Baby, LA Lady. The challenge this week, uh inspired by uh by events in the news, it it came out a while back that There was a manual that had been prepared for employees of Jeffrey Epstein. The copy that we have is specific to the Palm Beach home that he had. And it's it's it's it's silly and it's fun. And you know what? It it doesn't have stuff in it that'll be too upsetting in terms of like the stuff that he's famous for, but it is pretty wild. It's called Household Manual. Uh, and it is a is it 50 pages? 58 page manual that I think is actually very well done for what it is. I mean I've read a lot of concert writers.

I've read a lot of concert writers that aren't this good. But somebody spent some time with this. I'm sure Guy Lane was running it, but I think somebody else must have written it. Because it's it doesn't have dumb errors. Like it's it's really it's well done and thorough. Based on explain how to run the house, how to deal with people. I just want to I just want to get done with this one framing part. List of contents. And this is actually one thing I'd like to focus on. The sections include introduction, grooming and guest relations, proper language. A ton of it is basically just about the most quit quotidian running of the house. Like you would give this to somebody who's a new hire. Like and say, like, okay, your boss says, okay, you have to go prepare, prepare Miss Maxwell's bathroom for a visit.

And like you have a very specific, like, I think really smart list of like w what here's what I here's how what I want you to do. And I'll just say this because you love talking about labor and materialist uh uh motivations. You know, if you're gonna have an employee and have expectations of them, make it clear what the expectations are. Like, lay it out. You know what I mean? Like I think that's a really good idea. I mean it's it seems pedantic probably to some people But like I think a lot of problem inside of I'm not I'm not saying I'm not saying Ghillane Maxwell should do a TED talk, although she probably eventually will. But she should at least be a Y combinator. She she did a TED talk. Ted talk.

What she did a TED talk. She's done a TED talk. Fuck you. I bet it's Ted Ted. Think so because it was before it it was like when they were popular uh notes. Um uh but y'all know that she's done a TED Talk. That's cool. Yep But anyway, and it's a little detailed and the blah blah blah. And so the the challenge this week was uh and I I I didn't do this challenge anywhere near the way I wanted to. Um but the idea was, haha, if you're gonna create a manual in any way. Like cause why talked about stuff like how to use our stereo. Like guys, one of you out there, maybe you don't now because you're fucking f fancy and don't tell the truth anymore. But like, have you ever lived in a house where it's almost impossible to unlock the door unless you know the trick?

Mm-hmm. I've lived in a lot of places. where it's almost impossible to unlock the door unless you know the trick. And I can't tell you why your house was like that. I can tell you why my houses have been like that. Some of it is, hey, did you know the door locks automatically, so don't lock yourself out? Hey, did you know that It's an old key made from old copies of old copies. So you're gonna have to push it in and then pull back and then turn gently but firmly. What's that mean? You'll figure it out, but now you know the trick. Right? Or that it worst case scenario, if you need to break into the house, here's the best way to break into the house. Everybody knows these things. But what if you had to like talk about the secret life of your house hold?

What if you had to talk about the secret life of your household in a way that would be sensible to somebody who didn't know you? And I think it's a fascinating idea. Over. Did I lose you? Hello? Hello? Oh, hi, hi. Oh, there you there you are. Uh I Oh, if you didn't hear anything, then that's You got lost in your workplace. It is uh I was on a bus. Um the workplace. Not my workplace, it's where I record podcasts. Idiots. I I It's my No No, I just I uh I'm not gonna edit this. But um I just said that like I think it is there is something sensible to like well on the one hand like if you've got people who work for you fucking tell them what you want done like exp say it and like explain like don't just have vague things that you tell people but also I am also just very intrigued in a non-Epstein way or an Epstein adjacent way about how you communicate the secret complexities of living where you live.

And I think, I don't know if that's where you want to go with this, but between me and you I have a feeling, and we don't have to go into personal things, but I feel like between me and you, like we could come up with some pretty wild, non-obvious stuff about how to deal with me and how to deal with my house. Yes and yes and uh what about parking? If somebody came over to your house, would they know where to park? No, I mean it would be a lot of people. Is there are there places though where they absolutely shouldn't park, for example? Exactly Yep. And is that obvious? Is it obvious that this area, you know what I'm saying? Like that's the dumbest thing in the world. Well, why would that be difficult?

Oh God, grow up. I think there's so many people in the chip with the chicken voice that I think really do just live in an upscale suburb. Yes. I got nothing else. Yes. But doesn't it isn't it galling? Like how many people were like, well, why don't you just put in a 220 there? Um I'll go, okay. Why don't I just do that? Yeah. Okay. I'll just get a dryer and put in a 220. I'll put in a 220 in my house built in 1928. I'll just do that. I'll do that. I'll take care of that. I'll do it this weekend. Well that's why I need uh actually uh I need like a one car goes next car goes little song about when people tell me to do something something to tell me to do something costly, but to do something Yeah, like why don't you judge them?

Like, did you uh like uh have you ever known another person who's not you? Why are you so incurious about the experiences of people who aren't precisely you And so little empathy for anybody who doesn't have your means. It's very uh I I guess I notice it more now because the why don't you just for the longest time was so much of a a computer thing for me and the people. Yeah, why why why don't you why don't you just run Linux? Or yeah, or it was someone who w was aware, or at least semi-aware, of uh n th not their lack of empathy, but they knew that they were out of touch of with the world or with y you know what I mean? It's like, okay, I have these means uh and I I don't know what it's like for a poor like not even I I mean I don't think I don't think we even have to go that far.

When I would do back to work, we had a bit on back to work forever, the dance started where he would talk about fancy San Francisco and like I think also he is a somewhat just an envious person. But he but he would always make these cracks about fancy San Francisco and making fun of me about like this cosmopolitan place where I live. And it is I'm very grateful that we live here. I'm very grateful we have a rent-controlled house that we can afford. But it it's ironic to me when people with Two to four bedroom houses that they mostly own are making fun of renters because of where they live. There's um there's uh where where did I hear this? Was it Chris Fleming? It was somebody uh it was something I was watching the other day.

Maybe it was Chris Floyd, but somebody saying I'm I'm oh no, you know it was what Conan said to to Chris, well yeah, you're so weird or whatever, but it's cool that you you're able to make your rent doing what you do. And the thought that I had that I'm only saying out loud here once and only for the first time and only is uh yeah, you know, it's nice to be able to pay your rent with a job, but it's even nicer to be able to own a house with a job. And sometimes those conditions are not just about how successful you are, nor are they simply about where you live and the cost of where you live. It's fucking complicated. It's all fucking complicated. And it would be cynical of me to say that living in an upscale suburban neighborhood where you own a house and have so many problems that like are unique to you.

Tiny boxes made of tiki-tacky. You get fucking like so incurious about the experience of other people and like it's really not that difficult to understand how some people end up I'm sorry it's turning into a privilege thing, but I it's kind of sh amazing Like I it's not amazing. How often then that turns into, well, if you don't like living in a slum, why don't you move to a nice neighborhood? And you're like, well the clue is kind of in the in the answer there. First of all, please don't call it a slum. Uh it's just it's a place where I can afford to live. And, you know, and there m maybe there may be more violent crime than I like, but you know, maybe uh there's there's some kind of reasons why it's like that, including why I live there.

And you know what I mean? And it's like I I like and I I don't I I'm not saying that I'm like vastly superior at this to other people, but like it is really it is People who don't have to explain why their shit is weird have a privilege that is not available to people whose shit is weird. When I was a kid, your shit being weird might be you're divorced. It was very divorce and cancer were two. People did not say the word cancer when I was a child. And they very rarely talked about divorce because cancer meant you were gonna die, and divorce meant you might as well be dead, he said, if you're afraid to fall. No. That's not the lyric. But no, but like, you know what I'm saying? And like and so like there were these things where you would you just kind of avoid, well, like, you know, maybe we won't wouldn't have to talk and have such awkward conversations if you wouldn't make you the person I'm Mad at right now in theory.

Like if you didn't say such preposterous privileged things all the time, it wouldn't cause weird situations. But the way people frame stuff so often to me, and I I'm not trying to just unload on people who are more successful than I am, although they deserve it, but like, like, have you really thought about like If not the lived experience of like somebody who's not you and how their life could be complicated too. Um, a thing I said in the document. that I think is one of the best things in the document, and I think about it a lot, that if you truly want to start to understand another person, begin by looking at what was difficult for them as a child that was not difficult for you as a child.

So before you criticize or castigate people because they're not how you are, which is obviously the right way, maybe ask what stuff in their life is has been difficult in ways that weren't difficult. Like I couldn't get John to admit, I don't think, that because I could hear him putting trauma in air quotes about my terrible sunburns. And that but like he's got that with boats. John knows he can't be on a boat. John knows he doesn't like to travel. I'm not trying to like call him out here or something, but and it's not good for the show to argue about this particular kind of thing. But like And I'm not criticizing him, but I am saying like that's a good example though of like, well, of course I never get on boats or and fly as little as possible.

I have worse seasickness than anyone, worse um motion sickness than anybody you've ever met. So let's just take that as w you must take it as red that I'm that way for a reason. Whereas you just never learn to be a beach kid. Yeah. He wanted to raise a beach kid. And I I tried to kinda kinda move toward that point and say, I get what you're saying. I think that makes a ton of sense. Again from the document, it's important to fail, but failure m need not always be, you know, deadly or uh you know, permanent. So like you can fail easily if you're building a beach kit. I'm not trying to argue with a straw man, let alone John Syracuse here, but like we all suffer from right now a lot of people are very unhappy about a lot of things and don't have communities, don't have resources, like you know, there's all kinds of reasons to be unhappy right now.

And unfortunately that makes us, most of us, feel like more than ever, we have every reason to believe that we're put upon and other people are evil. And this is a great time to drop pull that back a little bit. Did you watch um J Nicholson's empathy video about Miss Rachel? Yes. Oh wait, wait. Um it's on Nebula. She the the whole canceling of Miss Rachel on YouTube. Um Are we wait, are we talk uh the Did you say Lindsay Ellis and I No, sorry, Lindsay Ellis. I meant Lindsay Ellis. I apologize. Yes, I did. Um basically just about like, you know, and you know, it's a it's a pussy have video that I happen to really agree with. No, I Highly disagreed. But like are you have we have we just completely lost the ability to understand the value of empathy?

Like if you listen to that Chris Vos guy, that Chris Vos guy who's always talking about negotiations, I think he's interesting. I think he's a little over exposed, but I think he's very interesting. Former FBI negotiator, blah blah. He's a TED Talk kind of guy, but he's an interesting guy and has an interesting book. And one of the things he says in there is like that something I believe, I I'll put this in my words, like empathy doesn't mean you like what somebody's doing. It means you can understand like how it is. Sympathy is different from empathy. You can feel empathy for people and actually use it against them, believe it or not. Isn't that cool? Hey you guys, go use your empathy to be a dick.

It's the worst things I've ever done. have been acts of like but like you could say where you could like try and infer too much empathy and go like oh I understand what it's like to be poor we only had two cars Because okay, because by your standard, that's not a big deal. You you should have like normal people, you have three or four cars and they're really nice. And so, you know, that actually is not helping as much as it sounds like. understand the material, psychic, emotional conditions of people before you and I'm probably doing that now to to the the wonderful people who live in high-end suburbs, but I just feel like there is a there is a certain pattern to this That I find really a bummer and largely unnecessary.

And anytime you can make a big broad public statement, that ends up making you look smarter, more and more special, like make sure it's not at the expense of somebody who doesn't, who can't swing back the same way and probably doesn't want to or doesn't have the means to swing back. I uh uh will even uh sort of r I guess reverse I don't want it to sound like I am. Reverse chicken problem, we about to say we about to say reverse reverse chicken problem. Because well, because I I have a l lot of wealthy friends just by the nature of g growing up in like in a suburb a and having successful friends that that I l I love. Uh except John Syracuse. I'll call out John Syracuse. Um no. But but it I there is a big difference and I think the reason that I um I don't know th I thought that I would never have wealthy friends because of the it what you are talking about.

And there is a big difference. between uh um w wealth and empathy and uh I've found that um I I I don't know there's I'm really lucky that the folks, especially the people that I uh grew up with who uh did do the like yeah I'm gonna do the five sub the five bedroom suburban house. Jesus Christ being in a house with five bedrooms like I'm I'm not doing this to be like the wow. The empathy that they may choose to espouse, forgive my saying, still gets to come on their terms. So they can choose to be empathetic about the parts that they think are reasonable. Like, yeah, I I I am it makes me I would really I'm I'm part of a group we're activists for trying to reduce violence in slums. But also I think you shouldn't be able to get anything that tastes good with food stamps.

The yes. Yeah. Well I we're okay, yeah. We're talking very much about Diff different groups of the five years. I understand I think why people would say that. That's the kind of thing my people would say. Hey, I work for a living. I don't give free food. And You know, one of the things that amongst the many things that sucks about living how we live right now is like the direction we're moving with this stuff is not salutary and there's very little to encourage us To think less about tribe and more about society. Like a tribe is your like sort of self-chosen, like this is the group where we all have the same pitchforks, you know, and torches. But like I don't know. I I I think there's an incuriosity about emotional growth that's uh causing a lot of problems right now, I feel like.

I talk about this almost every day with a friend who I don't know who's probably who I know is listening to this, and I don't know if they want me to name them. Never the uh uh like that's kind of um almost like my pet project at this point of trying to get people who whose biggest problem is that other people's problems make them anxious or uncomfortable. Getting them away from that like spiral thinking that does not involve empathy. It involves like it's inside it involves headlines and being upset about what we're talking about. Can you think of any examples of another people problem that causes them problems? Uh the uh oh one thing that uh uh affects um me, uh trans healthcare getting getting more expensive.

Um when people tell me about that who have Or l who have never uh met a trans person and just love, love posting about it and like uh feeling anguish over it. Um, that is just the ti the tiniest like thing where I feel like I can be allowed to It becomes a kind of personal because I think a title might be coming here, so be ready. I think it might be a kind of personal land acknowledgement. The where it's intended to be this very respectful thing about like, hey, listen, I'm not a Native American, but I can imagine how horrible it would be to have something the size of Florida taken away from your people. But like I like I say in um something that never quite becomes an actual tweet. I I the land acknowledgements that I have heard and I have been to um sound like a flex.

Yeah. Like an empathetic, slightly empathetic or sympathetic flex. Yeah. Where it's it's like it It really it sounds like a a rote but respectful victory lap. Right. Like in this very pious in this very pious and performative way, we wanna talk about, you know, the Wamma poke people. But ultimately then let's get on with the meeting we're keeping the land. The d the you didn't really you didn't really you didn't really help anything there, did ya? You just mainly kind of made yourself look like an ally to the people you're thanking for the stolen land. And I don't have a strong opinion about that, except With the way that land acknowledged whereas like in New Zealand when they do it, they're fucking bummed about it.

Like people in New Zealand are like, listen, seriously. And even this the current not not on YouTube, but the current actual live season of Taskmaster, you get a lot of this from a couple of the people, you know. from um one guy's from Pakistan, people with the Maori background, like it's people over there like, no, seriously, this this was we we deliberately our country made a fucked up quote unquote treaty to like get this stuff and it's terrible. And but when we do it here and you go, you guys, the Wamapoke were here and had a proud tradition and we would like to and you're like, but wait. So now you're gonna go get bankers boxes and leave the building? No, you're just really saying thanks for the stolen shit.

It's more like you're like you're like driving around in somebody's grandmother's car honking the horn. Sorry you don't have a car anymore! Christ. Monk Munk The uh the the newest uh th But uh like the way that the outrage around ice raids is performed by people who I know have never seen an ice agent, let let alone people like me that don't uh I don't wanna say don't need to e ever worry, but the my n neighbors Like we're hanging out and it's fucking d like it it fucking is terrifying that like we're sitting around and talking about how his uh cousin i like yeah he's n he can't come into the city because who uh like we're gonna be able to do that. Something Pritzker said about how it seems time to like botch all these these celebrations the families are gonna have for this certain time of year.

And they basically said, We're gonna go exploit that. Yeah. Yes, it's that is it's it's Horrible. And I feel like I am being the person like, you know guys are starving children in Africa Africa. But it's it's like no, but like you still gotta hang out with your pals and i it just happens that I live in a m more diverse area. Like it's just literally it uh that oh god there's no good way to talk about this. Well here here's where I'm gonna lose friends is miserable. I'm also empathetic with the other people. Oh why doesn't Home Depot do more to protect the people in their parking lots Home b Home Depot has a business to run and they're run by not very nice people and it's not a very nice organization, but I don't have time to be mad at everything.

And even if I did, I still wouldn't want to do that. I There's a lot more of a lot of things that we could all do about a lot of things. And why don't we? Well, because we've got other shit to do, and on top of the other shit to do, we've got all the stuff we're dealing with because of gestures broadly. And I have a couple of those things that I have to deal with that I'm not gonna go into. But like, yeah, you know, my half acre's plenty to keep track of. I um my stolen half acre I don't even own it. I rent a half acre. I rent a stolen half acre. There we go. Thank you. The renter's land acknowledgement. The saddest land acknowledgement of all. On behalf of my landlord who has So far mostly observed the law.

I would just like to say thank you. We got a we got a fucking fire extinguisher finally. Oh wow. But like uh I know. But uh it's like I uh I don't know, I mean like not like Uh uh y you ruin board game night when like Who did it? What does that mean? No, like if if you uh are Let's say you uh imagine a world where you had friends who were affected by ice raids. You're not gonna be like, hey Hector, we can't do a Pokemon Go this week because I am really like I know that you're having a tough time. No more Pokemon Go. And uh It is the um I I the y you said flex w in regards to land acknowledgements, which I I agree with, but now I see people going, um I refer to it as going all opus day, but what is the word that I'm the oh like self-flag flagellation of like, okay, if people feel like uh like scars and feeling sad about this, then it means I am a good person.

And I'm like, oh, you're doing a parody of like you're you're becoming the online parody of what the right likes to say and you're just ooh ooh not not a good look. Lot of lot of people besides us should be asking, and I'm saying just very clearly here, besides us, should be saying, is this good for the show? With the show being American. Okay, we don't let's let's let's wrap this up. We gotta wrap this up. Um I I I did not I when I say I rare you know, Alex, I hope you know. I rarely say things like I didn't have time to do it. I've just been kind of distracted with a few other things and as ever I I kind of fell behind. I love this challenge so fucking much. So I'm a little bit frustrated that I didn't do more for it.

So like all I have is a few little things, but like it was hard for me to even eventually I was like, hey, stop trying to do a big thing, zoom in further, further, further. But like I still found it really challenging. Um to like get anything that I could share with you that would be amusing. But I got a few. Uh it was just God hailed. Well there's a lot of angles. There's a lot of angles to it. Yes. Yes. And that's what I think is interesting about not just this, but the the manual in how straightforward it is and how it doesn't exp uh it explains very little about um why you should be doing anything. And uh I think in some cases that is a Hell with manual Yes, about the But I mean you do it because you work for us.

Well, but um yeah I'm not sure. But like Ghilaine's not explaining why she likes secret. R right. And but I've seen this when um when doing documentation where it's like like in uh an office guide um or something or whatever like uh there's this interesting line between explaining yourself or to to like humanize it because i you know the whole hey did you plug in your uh you know customer service Can you turn your computer on and off? Blow the dust out of the supply. Yeah. Um, and what was kind of re refreshing about this. And what I liked was like, okay, here are very clear instructions about what you uh uh should should do. Didn't have to explain how to unlock the door. Their lock works. Right.

Why don't you just get August E locks? Yeah. And I can I can see how someone would find that dehumanizing, but I mean but that's the thing. There's no uh uh it's straightforward. You're not asked to to like analyze or um anticipate like there is a part where it says here's how it it's almost a I I think it was really good about saying how to anticipate the needs versus the vague uh the vague reason. Well and there's a there's a there's a subtle There's a grace note that's about boundaries. Which I like. Yes. Yeah. Really? This sounds weird, but no, but I mean the boundaries thing, I think I think the boundaries thing is is Important. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And like, but you can't have good boundaries without communication and um clarity.

Um we should stop recording because it's been an hour and a half. My idea to come back to though was to like it would be funny to just pick one area of the manual and then round robin. Like we don't have time for this now, but like if we were to so I made the li I grab pasted the list of like, you know, proper language, answering the phone, bathroom cleaning. Like I wonder if we get round robin. It'll be fun sometime to to round robin a few of these. Well we could do that uh next week. We could do that. I the things I wrote down are not useful. Um you know there's that section on answering the phone. So I said we don't have a phone, so answer it any way you want. That goes in the manual. That's the thing.

I don't really have anything in funny like um it If you need to do something in the bedroom, something has gone uh t terribly wrong, which is is a guide for what's going on. Well, that's that that that is that is very that's chilling, Alex If you're in the bedroom, it's not a good reason. That sounds like a Jeffrey Epstein thing, except massage room, which had cameras. It wasn't Not that funny. Um, but this this is a real thing in my real guide. Uh turn uh turn hue lamps on and double uh check. if they're uh set to the desired automated scene as it as indicated in the Hue app. Oh now that's your problem. You take care of that for me. Oh I like that. But then I have a uh you know Stock my seltzer properly.

Save. Well yes, later on in the re Refrigerator refill. There is a top shelf, middle shelf, bottom shelf. Oh, I wish I wish you'd write that for my family. Just because there's nothing here right now doesn't mean you can put something there. Yes, and because how refrigerators are. It's like parking. Just because the space is open doesn't you know what? Holy shit, that's good. The refrigerator the refrigerator is a parking lot with assigned spaces. There are very few areas where you can just park where when you where and when you feel like it. Yes. And and just like every uh It Oh, that's so good. Never mind. It is really good. And also it leads to also is that that book I'm always talking about, well, I uh pe other people know way more about this than I do, but most people know about patterns from software um development computer programming, but the OG for patterns that I know of as Christian.

Mythical Mothman? Mythical Mothman Month. I'd love the Mothman. Yes, yes. It takes nine months to birth a mothman, no matter how many women you put on the job. I only have one line that I really I f think is important and then I'm gonna hit the bell. All nurses will dress as waitresses. All waitresses will dress as nurses. It gets worse the longer you think about it. Well it depends. But I mean, you know What does it depend on? Oh, I mean on your background, you know, like what kind like are you a cocktail waitress or but like A cocktail waitress can also be a cocktail nurse, if you think about it. I don't want to. Why? I don't know. What if what if uh what if they're wearing some kind of like a st uh stretchy superskin fabric?

Would that help? Or maybe like lycra or something? Some people are into pantyhose. You could you like a ho Hooters girls wear pantyhose. Would you be into that? Like pantyhose? Pantyhose? All nurses will dress as waitresses. All waitresses will dress as nurses. And I don't think it'll be confusing as long as we're consistent with it. And stop parking your chili chili sauce where my seltzer goes. That's not what that's for. I told Syracuse. I almost bought yellow and black tape. I almost bought like the kind of tape you put down in Alien to like like show where the loader goes. Or like make sure this door area stays clear, like in a warehouse. I'm ready to go fucking Amazon fulfillment on our refrigerator.

That's what yeah, that's what uh we have different uh gaffers tape. This is not I think it would officially be it would officially be over if my family came home and I had laid down tape in the refrigerator. That's It would be more effective than a manual. Oh god, I did. I fucked up. Oh Jesus. But you're not gonna be confused because the waitresses will like have those little hanging hanging watches that we like for taking your pulse. You know what I'm saying? And when you see a nurse with a tray, you're not gonna be confused. I mean you might be. It depends on age, sexual. And what kind of nursing you're expecting. A funny word is areola. Areola's a funny word. Be a pretty name for a girl. Ariola.

No, no. This can peter out. Conan often peters on the podcast. I have a handful of things that are up Uh here's words I would prefer you not say or words you not prefer you not use which you can guess. And then I I I'm um what I want to work on next is a list of words I would uh enjoy if you can find a way to work in the conversation All right. Yeah. Well, no, I mean it's conceptual. I could go into details, like never say succulent or cravable, obviously. Oh, I thought you were talking about me personally. Oh no, Emmanuel for you. Oh, I see what you're saying. You're saying let it begin with me, to be truly empathetic, to be truly sympathetic. I should set you straight with a manual. What the fridge you need a fridge acknowledgement.

Like what has been here before? A fridge Oh my god, that's what my family does. My family they're doing they're doing fridge acknowledgments I would just like to say before I put a very, very short thing that no one uses into the area for very tall things that people do use, thereby taking up useless space, useless Thank you. If I spoke your native language or even knew it, I would say it that way. So I will just say gracias. Gracias, uh Porsu uh Fridge Space. Gracias. And then on with the meeting. I'm gonna talk to the slide. Yeah. Trisa? Yes. Hey everybody, thanks for hanging in there. An imperfect school. Stopping, stopping, stomping. raw transcript