394. How to Rootkit a Woman
2025Show notes
(Recorded Wednesday, March 12, 2025)
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Tap a timestamp or any sentence to play from there · machine transcribed (mlx:mlx-community/whisper-large-v3-turbo), expect mistakesSpeaker BThis is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Alex Cox and Merlin Mann. This week's challenge, watch companion.
AlexHello. Hello. Hello. Feet boop. Nice to talk to you. Are you well? I am very well
MerlinIt's like you're having a hectic day It sounds like
AlexYeah, but a good day We can talk about it next week But a good day I've also been doing a lot with computers Right now As you know Constantly texting you Trying to do things with Hazel A very Mac app Because I love apps From, I don't know, it's been around forever just having it look at folders very old folders Noodle Soft Software
Speaker BIsn't that the name of the company?
AlexYeah, yeah and Smile, did you know turns out Smile on my Mac is now just Smile I was surprised and a little disappointed to learn that Anyway, just having
MerlinYou're doing a lot of stuff with computers You're having Hazel do what act upon contents of folders, that kind of thing?
AlexYeah, just have it look at a folder and then do stuff. It goes, hello, hello. And then ideally in the future, it transcribes it. But right now it just moves it to Obsidian. So it goes beep boop. And I mean, it doesn't tell me the weather, but that's an allusion to the challenge.
MerlinI know, I'm ignoring it because we're not to that yet.
AlexAll right. All right. I'm still getting used to the new era.
MerlinI don't think you are. I don't, I don't think you are. I think, I think you might need to go to the break room.
AlexOh, why? No.
MerlinYou'll know why. When you read it and I believe you, I'll consider letting you leave.
AlexOh, God. um you i didn't know how much genuinely didn't know how much uh i was not doing that as a bit wow that was a visceral reaction i had to just the first season to heli first season heli uh oh goodness gracious oh what a show met her while working as a stew man at the ether factory
MerlinI love the phrase ether factory. I'm going to go ahead and preemptively announce that in the after show, we're going to have an unconscious technical netcast where you're going to help me with my whisper transcription.
AlexYes.
MerlinAlso known as Mac whisper, which is not confusing.
AlexYeah, definitely not confusing. Definitely.
MerlinThere's documentation for things, but there's documentation for almost nothing that I need help with.
Alexwith nope nope nope nope and there's documentation as well for what it will be able to do in the future which threw me off because i had set up you know my my hazel dingus you said your head
Merlinme off and hazel people know what me off is is that like like suck me off
Alexwhat does it mean that's a oh that's a me through me off is this a i don't know i thought it was
Merlinthe name of a service you'd sign up for i thought it was like one of those coding um idees
Alexno i'm just all in i'm come on in give a try to me off direct consumer programs over 10 000 five-star reviews oh i love computers almost as much as i love apps
Merlinyeah what do you love this week merlin man well um and so uh the uh the unconsciously technical part is uh there's new features in mac whisper that you've been working with i uh and i'm very so so for i don't know different reasons probably complimentary reasons alex and I are both very interested in finding, um, repeatable ways to enter, to give audio completed podcast files to something and then have it create a transcript with the correct speakers.
And then we probably have our own different reasons for why we want that. But you know, it's a, it's a, it's a cromulent reason. So I'm going to ask for Alex's help with that in the after show. And if you want to hear the after show and support our program, you can go to, uh, give us your fucking money.com.
Alexand just for a little bit of a preview on how like let's say how how the software's going uh i sent you a screenshot of the settings with of mac whisper the version i have um and would you please read what is under add watch folder um so this is in a section of the settings called
Merlinwatched folders and you have the opportunity to add a watch folder and it says the blah blah text is add watch folders and get a notification to transcribe when files that are placed there. Add watch folders and get a notification to transcribe when files that are placed there.
AlexI think that's not what I was... Listen, maybe ESL, that's not what I was upset with. Proceed.
Merlinum background transcription and batch transcription will be added in future updates please send us feedback on how you want to use this feature at uh email address why why have it here it's not a beta well because it's a team different people work on different things and the ui person had this has this part ready for whenever the functionality comes out of testing that's not
Alextrue that's not true even if it was you think it's not nefarious i think that it is yes yes i think
Merlinthis guy should calm down and write some documentation on how his app works i think instead of things here things happen it happens different every time sometimes it knows that's john syracuse sometimes it does nothing sometimes that's speaker too and he's pink okay not oh okay I entered speakers in the speaker section. Yeah, but you might have to drag it or right-click, which is also control-click, kind of, but don't click too hard because now you're editing the text.
AlexCorrect.
MerlinYes. You have to turn on top and peak. How does the app work, monsieur? What is this app? I don't know. That's funny, but, you know, development's hard.
AlexI agree, but it felt last night.
MerlinYou love apps and you hate developers. Steve Ballmer loves developers. Look how successful he is.
AlexOh, yeah. I don't envy his airline. You think Balmer's not successful? Guy gets more tail than Sinatra.
MerlinWhat are you talking about? Still don't know what that's from. Oh, it means you get laid a lot? And the idea is that you could have women as often as Frank Sinatra could want a woman.
AlexAnd get her. Yeah, but who said that first?
MerlinWho made that assumption? Why can't we just have language? Why does everything need to be a thing with you?
Alexbecause then this is how we don't get documentation it's first in what sense what about who said what about sinatra who cares and that's why we don't have documentation everything's connected and then it's ah who cares if we have who cares if we know what settings to push it's all listed there we
Merlindon't need i'm sorry going into this i was just having fun with you because i thought you were confused about thoughts but now i realize this is a righteous jeremiah ad i i apologize here's a standing what's left of your truth i mean you know you know i like the kid
Alexi don't actually dislike you as much as it seems you hope i mean as long as it's less than i dislike myself we're on a great track probably safe there for now yes
MerlinDon't push it.
AlexFor now.
MerlinDon't push it. No, no. But like with that said, you know, as always, there's certainly the kind of the pilot error problems of this. But, you know, it's a very interesting app. And it does something that unless, well, I mean, there might be other apps that do this. And you can probably Vibecode an app. But it's the, so far, the easiest GUI way that I've found to do what it is I want to do. I've gotten some help from Chatty G on doing this with FFmpeg but I want to like I need the visual of this
before I like point it at you know 250 files
Alexlisten now save it for the after show but I do want
Merlinyou're the one who wanted to tease it because you're all mad about developers is there a developer story here
Alexfor some reason yeah it's featured on the app store somehow the developer is listening if somehow the developer is listening to this you know how much i love this happened we are just being silly about that described how would the developer know that i there there seem to be a lot of developers who listen to this show i think there's how would you possibly know that do people not talk to you on the internet you're always mad about what people say to you on the
Merlininternet? Who's saying these things to you? I love this newly emboldened but still equally wrong, Alex. I'm very excited for your assertiveness. But once again, what the fuck are you talking about? No, I don't talk to people on the internet, Alex. I'm constantly asking people what they think about my podcast no one listens to.
Speaker AWhat do you think? Are you a developer? Do you know how much I like games?
MerlinYou gotta be careful not to... You know, I wrote down a new piece of wisdom.
Speaker AI almost called my wife Alex
Merlinwhich oh boy
Speaker Ayeah
MerlinI had this what were we talking about oh we were talking about someone who works for her who's a very gifted I think very gifted writer and very good like I don't know you can tell when somebody's paying attention
Speaker Ayou know what I mean
Merlinwhen people do things and you can tell that they think and they pay attention and I it's personal not personal but it's professional but it's you know inside house talk but I said I really like what that person wrote. They're a very good writer. And I think you should potentially treasure that person because you can tell they pay attention to stuff and know how to integrate good information into clear communication, which is not table stakes anymore. You just cannot assume that everybody's going to be great at that.
But I was talking about how, you know, her role as a mentor and stuff like that. And I didn't say this about her. I'm saying this about me. But, and this is, I just wrote this down quickly last night while I was watching TV. But when you're helping someone, try always to focus on the help that that person needs rather than the help you feel like giving.
AlexThat's very good.
MerlinCan you sit with it for a minute? Do you like it? Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
AlexI do. But I think that you should, maybe not in this part, but in the wisdom document, and I could be wrong, is there anything about mentorship in general?
MerlinOh, I have a whole section about that. It's under mentoring.
Alexit's an h3 really no i don't know but i mean you just kind of blew past the mentoring okay so okay
Merlinwell that's because that wasn't the point of the anecdote but what give me give me a hot tip about
Alexmentoring i don't have one and that's that's why you need the document yeah yeah that's why i need the documentation because giving someone help i didn't okay you ready you ready that's not i got
Merlinone i got one i got one okay okay um try not to be try not to treat the people in your life like projects or vessels we tend to treat people like projects the way the doctors see you as a disease rather than a person who has things to do and stuff on their mind and concerns outside of that six minutes they deign to show up an hour late to your appointment. Not that I'm angry. But don't treat your friends like
projects. And don't look at other people as vessels to be filled with your wisdom. Not that there isn't wisdom to be gained, but you shouldn't treat people like that. Because, see, also, the earlier point, the help that somebody needs is not always the help that you feel like offering. So like the, the, the like layer zero of that is the one I have already said in there, which is like, don't be too sweaty about wanting approval for like being a nice person and
Speaker Alike, Oh, call me if I can do anything, stay safe. Instead of actually fucking doing something like
Merlinnow, all you've done is created homework for that person. Like you take a busy, freaked out, traumatized, like under pressure person. And then you become another voice, giving them homework to show that you're a good boy. Like that's the, that's the bottom like primary level of like, you can always just write to somebody and say, God, it seems like your life sucks right now. I'm so sorry. I hope it gets less bad soon. Later. That, that to me is a nice way to talk to somebody personally. That's, I like when people talk to me like that. But, but I, yeah, yeah. So like,
but like, you know, I went through this when I used to do freelance work, which I was never particularly good at, which is like, you know, the thing they say about like when you're only tools to hammer, where everything looks like a nail, there's certain kinds of approaches and hangups and all this stuff where you're like, oh, good, here's another receptacle. Here's another vessel for me to fill with my wisdom. Let me just squeeze, freshly squeezed in wisdom, title, going straight into this poor person who needs me. And like, I don't know.
I have to, also, I'm just not a big fan of hierarchy because the whole point of hierarchy is somebody's higher than somebody else. And you can phrase that a hundred different ways, but if you thought of the mentor-mentee relationship as a little more like a collegial, more strictly collegial pair programming type relationship, you might act really differently than, you know, the person who taught my Red Cross first aid class in 1987. I'll never forget that guy.
AlexOh, please.
MerlinNo, I told you about that. We showed up late to the class because we got stuck in traffic. Like, all the RAs had gone to take this, what do they call it, the Multimedia First Aid Course, or whatever it's called, whatever the basic, you know, basic-ass first aid course. But, no, I just, I think about that because there are people, and I'll say the mean thing.
Since you're editing this episode, cut this out. Kidding. but I think in some of the not worse but less good case scenarios you get a good harder person who comes in there and kind of puffs up their chest and like oh I'm the person who's here to give you this kind of pre-packaged thing that I've decided that you need because you set aside some time to learn you know versus like trying to actually fucking understand the human being you know what I mean
I watched Yet another very good Caitlin Deaver thing on television. And it is not in some ways. How can I put this? It's not dissimilar from the feeling that I got seeing Caitlin Deaver in Dope Sick, which QED we talked about had a huge impact and continues to have a huge impact on me. I'm that dumb that I needed a TV show to help me understand it. Appalachian drug addiction and the Sackler family. But she's in this really, I thought, very good, surprisingly good Netflix show about that Australian woman, Belle.
What's her name? The one who acted like she had cancer and became a beauty and wellness influencer. This is a story that happened a few years ago.
Speaker AOh, I don't know.
MerlinMadeline knew about it. I hadn't known about it. But the point being that, you know, at least in the dramatization of Dope Sick, which I think is on Hulu. and it's about the way the Sacklers deliberately chose certain specific kinds of areas to push Oxy because there was a perfect storm of ways they could get away with crazy shit. You go into an area where people get a lot of minor to moderate to sometimes heavy pain-causing issues, people where the doctors are pretty soft to the idea of being talked into prescribing
and all those different kinds of things. not going to get the media attention of Westchester County. You know, they weren't pushing it up there as much as they were pushing it in West Virginia. And Caitlin Devers working in the mine with her father and gets a really kind of gruesome back injury and gets addicted. And I don't know. I lost a couple of my wax coatings of, oh, I understand this problem. Getting to hear the story told that way. Ditto here, and I'll tell you why. So like I say, this is about a woman. it's very influencer-y
it's really good at, well acted lots of great people, but her thing is she's just, you know, as is revealed, you know she's got a little personal reflexive Munchausen going on and she really likes the attention and stuff like that, but what I said to Madeline, I said, one reason I like this show so much is it isn't just trying to take one point of view and ram it down your throat which is, okay, everybody on Instagram is a liar and the world sucks it's it's subtle what attracts people to this stuff well i want to be pretty on a boat like or
i want to be able to like jet around and receive awards for being a woman in business or that's all completely normal valid wholesome things to want but what attracts people to that is you know what fucking doctors are assholes sometimes and you know i know that's my point of view on this i really think doctors and in the medical industry writ large it's a tough job i'm so sorry you guys had to get all of those loans to make $500,000 a year. But like the way that they do treat people
like the disease of the day sometimes. I mean, I, you know, setting aside my whole hang up, see also Roderick on the line, my whole hang up about how I'm always two years behind on the homework of the medical industry. And they're always yelling at me about what I haven't done. And I'm like, just fix me. Like, wow, why does this all have to be like, I haven't yet shown you enough obeisance to your wisdom, you know? But I think one reason people are attracted to stuff like that is, yes, it's very enticing for someone to say, you can eat, you can get five coffee enemas a day and eat shakes, like 20, you know, juice drinks a day, and you can take care of your cancer.
And here's how we know that is. Like we have this, there's this wisdom of the body and the thing through the ages that is absolutely totally appealing. And don't act like none of you have ever found that kind of thing attractive. But what brings you there in the first place? Well, if you had medical, if you had insurance and you had adequate medical coverage and you had somebody even vaguely 20% fucking empathetic to your life as a living human being, rather than just a set of symptoms that got rolled into the office, I think they treat people really differently. And I, I'm content to stand alone on that.
I know it's considered, it's almost like being mean to a first responder to not, not appreciate the medical people, but Jesus fuck. Anyways, it's a good show. It's what's it called? It's called, I know this
AlexOh, it's called Apple Cider Vinegar
MerlinAnd her accent Woof So she's in it And you know the other fellow that's in it Is that handsome guy from Succession I think he's from like the PR firm
AlexOh, so not one of the guys
MerlinIf you go to Apple Cider Vinegar Her husband-ish guy I would give it I would give it my provisional okie-dokie I thought it was a good show but there's the kind of help you feel like giving. And then there's the kind of help that people need. And sometimes the kind of help you feel like giving the, the, the disorder you feel like treating today that you've deigned to treat, uh, can be a big reflection of more than just the, the, it may not be that useful to somebody who first,
I think about my poor dear sainted mom and like how she's had all these medical problems that are all like accumulating on the back of old medical problems and it just accumulates and everybody's like we'll take more walks and blah blah and she's like i i've had two knee replacements i can't just go take walks and like hmm well that's that's my usual advice i like to give so maybe try meditation drink more water you know also here's also here's a prescription better sleep what yeah try to get better sleep have you tried getting better sleep hygiene
AlexHave you gotten the call now? Here's a higher antidepressant. Oh. I don't know, man. I don't think you're standing, I don't think it's just you standing in this truth. I think it's just, there's a, like, really innate feeling of shame when someone has been taken in by something and then proven to, you know, that once you realize that it's
Merlina grift. I mean, that's the way the mafia works. Like, you have to go kill somebody, so they've got something on you, too. Well, pretty soon, it's, you know, whatever. What's the effect? The blowback effect. There's all these things that, like, happen with us. But, I don't know. Human beings are weird. Can I cover myself with Glory very briefly? My annual covering of myself with Glory, and then we'll talk about the movie Companion? Please. Okay.
There's a lot of things I've gotten wrong in life. and I thought I was getting it right. A lot of that just comes out of the default bullshit of however I was raised and however I think and however I am. But I hope you'll forgive my shoehorning myself into this. But over the years, and I'm not telling you anything you don't know, okay? So just, but feel free to join in. The way that queer people, fat people, people of color, the way that they get treated at the doctor is a problem.
The medical industry, such as it is, knows this. They're aware of it. Like, you ever been a fat person who goes to the doctor? Well, maybe not, because you're so sick of going in there and having to first start out with this liability, with this red on your mark, on your ledger, about how you're a fat person, so obviously you're unhealthy. I'm not saying everybody thinks that way, But there are a lot of fat and or queer and or people of color and or people who have some of the things that I have.
What I'm trying to say is once I became more aware, at first I heard that, I don't know, in the early 2000s, like, oh, you know, oh, you know, they're so mean to black women who are having babies. And I was like, OK, but they're doctors. And then you're like, no, no. Venus Williams had to save her own life by saying, no, you need to take care of this. Right. and I don't think I get the feeling that wealthy white women don't get that nearly as much right but the fact people are you with me on this and like I I'm so happy to know that this is a
known issue that that somebody's filed a feedback on but I do not see a huge amount of progress in seeing a little bit more per person humanity in the way that we deal with people and that's one of the numerous reasons I fucking despise the entire medical industrial complex do you feel me though on the what it's like to go to a doctor when you're a certain kind of person
Alexyeah it just it doesn't consume my existence or anything and then now that i can go to the doctor i just keep now that i can go back to the doctor i just keep putting it off because i know the script i know exactly how it's going to go especially the question is like is it going to
MerlinIt could be a mean woman or a mean man. That's everything else. You can do the entire dialogue, or like 80% of the dialogue, and knowing how it ends when you go in there. It's going to end with them being done with it and going to see another patient, and you left with a bunch of homework and bad feelings and trepidation and unanswered questions.
Alexand usually for me it means homework that involves a blood test i need to get that i can't get that day nor can i get it at that location and this part has nothing to do with insurance but you need to you know go to same industry quest labs and yep and then you need to make sure that they get uh quest lab sends it to the right hospital and to the right section of the hospital and apple helps with some of this, which is, you know, why...
MerlinIf you know how to do that, I'm able to do a dump and hand it to a doctor. Because, but I told you the last time I went to a doctor, she held my iPhone in her hand. And not just an MD, but kind of a big shot MD. She's like the go-to person for a particular thing in this group. She sat there and probably for 10 or 15 minutes of our visit, she sat with my iPhone in her hand, typing things into a computer because there was no other way for her to get those records.
AlexYep, that is, we've had, yeah, I had a nurse practitioner take a picture of lab results on her phone and then bring it.
MerlinLast time we were in the emergency room, same thing.
AlexMaddie, my spouse, has given me permission to talk about this, but both of us go to a clinic specifically to treat queer patients. So already we're like higher on the like experience list for most of the staff. Right. And there are the mean there still are like that. All the doctors are mean, just all that. And at best, the nurses and nurse practitioners, they expect that cruelty in some cases at worst.
And their job is basically to do aftercare for whatever the doctor fucks up. And I am not talking about misgendering people or whatever, like nothing to do with offending someone or making someone feel emotionally uncomfortable.
MerlinMaybe just sorting out what all of the pronouncements by the powerful medical person, how that turns into what next steps are, needs another layer beyond just later. You know, somebody's going to have to figure out what all that means now and how we actually implement.
AlexYes. So if you are a person on taking testosterone as hormone replacement therapy, as well as taking mood stabilizers, and then it's like, then you get your blood pressure checked and seems, oh, it's a little bit high. here's a script for this, but don't take it if you are on antidepressants and it's like, oh, wait, yeah, I am. It's in my chart. You literally read the medications I'm on
at the beginning of this meeting. Sorry, meeting. Yes, that's what it feels like. A meeting. A standing meeting that no one wants to be at, and you're
Merlinrushing to the next one. I love to go to meetings where I sit half naked on a couch with a roll of paper on it. Yes. Nothing undignified about that. You know, you've got your white jacket and your stethoscope. I'm sitting here with my dick out.
Speaker AThank you for your time.
AlexYeah, it's great also when they're out of the paper. Again, right now I'm not even talking about any sort of social missteps. No, no, no. This is all like clinical, like, all right. So you're on testosterone. You're on Lamictal. But yet you're still getting your period. and we might want to put you on blood pressure medicine, but first, oh, you want your period to stop? Which a lot of women want their period to stop, not just trans people.
Like, okay, here, we'll just put you on this. Oh, wait, right, you can't take birth control, can you? Huh, well, here's another, we're going to send you to another endocrinologist.
MerlinSee, Alex, can I just say, I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you, but can I just shove Lynn? You're not a fun problem to solve now. That's not the project they follow. QED 20 minutes ago, that's not the problem they want to solve it's easier to just go you've got diabetes here's
Alexyour prescription yes it is much easier and this is a um we talked about this on the show uh howard brown clinic which is a it is a good clinic here in in chicago but they were bought out by another company and now how they raise money is through you know you're gonna make me feel bad about this forever aren't you wait why no no no no because you told me i asked you for a good organization
Merlinand then I gave him money and then you told me that I shouldn't give him any money more because everybody was on strike and I thought I don't understand what I'm supposed to be doing here
Alexyes well this is still an organization it's a good-hearted idea it no and it still is the best place to go if you're queer in Chicago and but it was bought by you know the a big another uh big health care company and just like you know another place for free through amazon prime Yeah, just like any other clinic now, some of the nurses and other folks went on strike. No one's being canceled for donating to Howard Brown. I have also donated to Howard Brown. But that's how they raise money now through the stats of we've gone through, we've helped this many folks get HRT and we've scheduled this many surgeries.
but if you aren't a fun problem you aren't a good fundraiser and so on and so on so but it's i mean it's just uh not it's not just a bummer it's just like a little slap of indignity that i don't want to say regular people but i am i'm going to say regular folks have to go through but you a lot of uh like you know but if you're a regular but if you're also if you're
Merlina regular person and everything's mostly going all right and you haven't had these problems you've now established a track record that shows you're a more compliant patient and i think you get treated differently i really do you do um but i have
Alexfriends and family members who were always compliant not necessarily even consciously just you know good good luck um they as they get older and they end up having like health issues like oh yeah hey there's a heart disease this is my mom and this is my mom and blood thinners
Merlinas soon as she went on coumadin like all of the other problems that she has suddenly became a lot harder to treat. They really do kind of like interfere with each other in terms of what you can do. And it's not very fun unless you are somebody who's like in research or something. It's not really that fun to treat.
AlexAnd it ends up then that those people who were easy projects don't know how to advocate for themselves at all.
MerlinOh, God, that's so good. Yeah, that's really good.
AlexAnd that's another thing of you start thinking, oh, I'm the problem. And that leads to, you know, I don't think I'm saying anything people don't you know no I there are folks who don't know this because you you're fine well I think some people don't hear it enough to understand it's real I
Merlinmean um I won't oh god this is too long but like this this one just always it still burns me so much I don't know this is at this point over 15 years ago but my mom you know has health problems And I was trying to help out with these health problems. And I think it was after one of her knee surgeries or hip surgeries or one of her various maladies. And she said, blah, blah, blah. Something I'm like, I got to go pick up my prescription today. I got to get my patch. And I was like, oh, what? Mom hasn't smoked since Nirvana was popular.
But no, not that patch. She, after surgery, see also Dope Sick. After surgery, she had been prescribed a morphine patch. and asked me how much follow-up was ever done about whether she still needed it because my mom now my mom when i was growing up whether this is cold medicine like triamininacin even chloroseptic that you spray on a sore throat my mother read the instructions assiduously and was very tightly wound about following the schedule of and like doing it right and being a good patient right
but nobody was keeping track of the fact that she i don't know how i don't know this this is what she told me that it appeared that basically she had a prescription for morphine that was just on some kind of an auto refill and i was like well how have they uh what was the follow-up on that like it's like no no but i got the prescription i gotta take it and like and so i you know did reach out to to the doctor and i was like hey i know you're not the project manager here but like
are you aware because they don't talk to each other they don't follow it up i mean again sorry everybody's got a reason oh well you know everyone's busy and we're cutting back and all that stuff but it's like if you're giving like a 75 year old woman morphine patches and you're not sure why maybe that's something you want to have a look at oh my god i'm just realizing
Alexthat both of the things we have talked about um one involving the six minutes you spend with a patient like if you have chronic pain that can't be diagnosed any sort of like chronic pain yeah
Merlinor any kind of any kind of like ibs like weird uh etiology kind of thing like any of those things
Alexor you know yeah and people wonder why i talked to chat gpt um the dorothy at one point the that's be arthur she eventually flies to new york for a specialist to say oh you have um gosh what's it called uh uh i i don't know notes the pre-menopause thing para perimenopause or no it's the um long term uh it's not long-term depression but uh like you have a similar to long covid but uh not
covered um and there was another episode where we found we find out rose niland has been on opiates for half a decade because after her back surgery she just kept getting up are you kidding me yeah Yeah, yeah. Ripped from the headlines, Alex.
MerlinRipped from the headlines.
AlexMultiple, yeah. And I'm like, damn, damn. There are, I'm like, God.
MerlinYou don't have to believe me, but you better believe Rosen Island.
AlexDon't believe my mom. Blanche is sexually harassed and then has to study instead of just fucking her TA.
MerlinOkay, now we're really drifting now.
AlexI'm sorry, I'm sorry. Herb Edelman.
MerlinI always liked Bea Arthur's husband. He was a character actor I liked as a kid.
AlexBea Arthur's, he's one of those guys from one of those.
MerlinYeah, his name's Herb Edelman. He was in Big John, Little John. He was in lots of stuff. Big John, Little John was a Saturday morning show about a boy who turned into a man, and then the man would turn back into a boy, and he'd turn into a bald, middle-aged bald man. It was called Big John, Little John. Wait, I need to know if I've hallucinated this. I'm pretty sure this is a circa 1977 CBS I think he was on before the Hudson Brothers Big John Little John Let's learn about Big John Big John Little John from 1976
Oh Robbie Rist from the Brady Bunch was Little John Big John Little John is an American Saturday morning sitcom produced by Sherwood Schwartz Brady Bunch starred Herbert Edelman as Big John and Robbie Rist as Little John
Speaker AOh my god
MerlinThe show's main character A 40 year old Middle school science teacher Named John Martin While vacationing in Florida He drinks from a spring No Which turns out to be A fountain of youth The water changes him Into a 12 year old boy And back again
AlexAre you seeing Are you seeing
MerlinThe poster For the show What I'm seeing right now Is this amazing photo That says Robbie Rist As little John Which will be our show art it's so creepy it had a song uh maybe we'll find it for notes
Alex1976 season one episode two peter panic both little john both big john and little john are cast in the school's production of peter pan
Merlinhuh huh they ended with a bang on december 4th 1976 in order to arrange a show for the school annual party, one of Martin's students prepares a set of different magic tricks.
AlexOh, boy. Oh, boy.
MerlinI'm willingly playing a joke. John's assigned to find who's behind the vandalism. Stanley is again late for... We're a rich tapestry. You want to do the challenge?
AlexChallenge!
MerlinHi, everybody. It's a challenge. Challenge this week is to watch the movie Companion. Rated R! yeah, uh, watch the movie campaign, which I recommended to you last week. And I thought it'd be fun to talk about. Do you want to talk about it?
AlexYes. You were kind enough to help me get this movie took six hours to download and absolutely worth it.
MerlinReally? Um, I'm going to go ahead and, and, and blow the spoiler horn here. I think because, uh, this movie arrives pretty spoilery.
AlexYes.
MerlinEven from the poster. And I don't want to rob you of the opportunity to just take it on its own terms, even though it might be too late. So can we go ahead and call this the spoiler? Sorry, everybody. Companion. You can get on the Internet. It's got that. It's got that. That it's got that girl from Yellow Jackets.
AlexYes. The girl from Yellow Jackets. Follow up. Last week, you said, oh, you've seen what's his name, Quaid? And I said, yes, from The Parent Trap with Lindsay Lohan. No, no, no. I was talking about, I mistook him for Randy Quaid. Or Dennis. Dennis. Shit. Fuck. Oh.
MerlinYou know who Dennis Quaid is?
AlexNo. It's his father. I guess not. I don't know. Wait, really? Oh, we've got a... Don't, please don't. What? What?
MerlinOkay, listen. I'm going to just, I'm so sorry, Alex. I'm just going to need to start banning certain phrases from the show. I mean, it's a sub bit and it's not helping. Who does it help when you say Nepo Baby? It doesn't help.
AlexIt means that if you have confused them with another actor.
MerlinNo, you could say that they're related, like people have said for millennia. Okay. Jack Quaid's parents, Jack Quaid. And I know him from The Boys, which is a show that in particular The Little Lord really loves. The Little Lord was a character from The Boys for Halloween a couple years ago. Ooh. Carl Urban's character, Billy Butcher.
AlexThat's a good one.
MerlinJack Quaid's parents are Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan. Oh! And that means his uncle is the extremely deranged and sometimes entertaining Randy Quaid. He was great in Vacation. He was pretty good in 1941.
But you can see how he looks like his dad, huh? I mean, if you look at his dad in Breaking Away, by the way, Hubba Hubba.
Speaker AYou ever seen Breaking Away? Google Breaking Away
MerlinAnd look at what that fella looked like In about 1978 Maybe I love this movie so much
AlexOh Bikes Look at that
MerlinNothing wrong with that And Jackie Earl Haley And also Daniel Stern Who in addition to being one of the wet bandits is also the voice of the kid from The Wonder Years.
AlexI can't believe I thought forever that it was the same guy doing the voices. Same thing that I thought for a while.
MerlinOh, you thought it was Luke Kevin doing the little kid?
AlexUh-huh, yeah, which isn't embarrassing when you're a little kid, but it is embarrassing. Because when I watched How I Met Your Mother, I thought that Ted Mosby was voiced by the guy who does Ted Mosby and the adult version was, oh, fuck, what's his name? I don't, Ted Mosby? Oh, he's really funny. No, the guy who voices, the guy who voices, dad from Full House. Fuck me. Bob Saget, yes.
Bob Saget is the voice of old Ted Mosby.
MerlinOld Ted, we called him.
AlexOld Teddy.
MerlinHe also did TV bloopers and practical jokes. And he worked blue. He famously worked blue. A lot of people don't know that. He worked blue.
AlexYeah. A lot of people don't know that a lot of people say Bob Saget worked blue. It's apparently pretty funny. Crazy. Spoiler. I loved companion.
MerlinReally? I was prepared to come in here and I was prepared for you not to have liked it why? because it's got a robot and I bet you have feelings about robot things and I enjoyed it I like the robot angle but I I recently I've said this before but I recently said this to somebody who was like maybe I'll rewatch Tenet because I'm always telling you Yeah, you got to rewatch Tenet, rewatch Tenet.
And I said to the person, I have a lot of advice about watching Christopher Nolan movies, but the quickie, I was like, you didn't ask. But if you can, when you're watching Tenet, I would say, unless it makes you happy, don't get too hung up on, quote, how it works, unquote. Like with every Christopher Nolan movie, you want to get hung up on how it works. whether that's, you know, traveling through time and bookcases and dust, which is your daddy.
Or, you know, or whatever. But Tenet is, as you young people say, a big ask in terms of, you know, because it is hard to follow, quote, how it works. But I feel like the journey I've had is that I enjoy the movie a lot more, not fussing too much about how it all works. and as with every Christopher Nolan movie, you know what? It's really kind of about just good characters.
It's a sci-fi or speculative kind of, you know, platform. So anyway, I'm glad to hear that though. I just enjoyed it. I just like movies like this and I like the tone of it and I thought Jack Quaid was, especially in the first act, was just so delightful after he's had his heel turn.
Speaker ATell me what you thought.
MerlinTell me what you thought about the 2025 movie companion.
AlexOh, okay. I think that after I saw the movie Tao from 2018, but I watched it a couple of weeks ago. T-A-O? That's what it's called. T-A-U. T-A-U. That might be, God. It's the one with quantum computing as well. So I could be thinking of a different one. it it was just so just there was zero zero science rooted in reality like so much that i
the whole thing it's not like a tenant situation where you want to figure out what's going on like you're watching it and you know that it's that it's wrong and it's hard to not just be like okay um i guess we're just gonna still watch this movie and pretend that quantum computing is magic. All right. This movie, I don't even know if it's speculative fiction. It's just a...
MerlinA woman is held captive by a scientist in a futuristic smart house?
AlexChatty G, you are wrong, I think. Let's see. No, it has a quantum computer. Like Gary Oldman, maybe? Oh, wait. I think it does have Gary... Does Tao
Merlinhave all the pictures of a lady tied up in a chair it looks like uh that it might be a towel
Alexeither way no one watch it so okay at this point i have a really with computer movies in general i'm like you know what if if it's trying to make a point and it's the tech is isn't like so bad that it's distracting. I'll just let it happen. That being said, most of what happens in Companion, like most of the plot holes aren't that big, you know? Like I, after I watched a second time,
MerlinI can explain it. I liked a lot about just, you know, what did I just watch? I just watched all of the new Netflix series, Running Point, which is, I described it to Madeline as Succession meets Ted Lasso in the style of Silicon Valley. And it's about Kate Hudson takes over as the head of a family basketball team, you know, like the New York Lakers type team. But I said, I saw in Rotten Tomatoes, this sounds mean, and I really, I mean this in the best way.
I enjoyed the show very much. I saw in Rotten Tomatoes, its current score is 79. And I was like, there has never been a more perfect score for a movie than this series getting a 79. And I like it. It knows what it is, and it's very 79%. It's upper mid. And it was thoroughly enjoyable, and I didn't ask any more from it. Sometimes I just want to watch something that's amusing and enjoy it and just see what's going to happen with the characters. And people get so fretful about what everything means.
So, you know, my review of the movie, I didn't send this to you because I thought I'd save it for the show but I love this movie I watched it two and a half times I haven't gotten Madeline to oh I agree too I haven't gotten Madeline to watch the whole thing yet but we watched a couple nights we watched parts of it together and what did I say here's what I said I said basically two things in this well the second part was guys don't sleep on beep boop
because I think beep boop is such a cute name for a girlfriend. No matter what, it's a cute name for a girlfriend. First thing I said, though, was this has been a terrific year for fairy tale movies. And I say that because as with The Substance, which people have strong feelings about, I think it's useful to watch The Substance as a fairy tale. If you're trying to figure out how The Substance works, like, this is not, you know, this is not 2001, A Space Odyssey. Like, this is not Primer. Like, it's not that kind of movie.
and I don't hold those to those same kinds of standards in general or especially as a lot of people but I think this is in some ways a fable do you know what I mean or a fairy tale yeah I I
Alextake it back it almost it is sort of a no no I you're describing it better like it's just what What if your girlfriend is a robot, like, does have...
MerlinIf it was just that, it would be really lame. Yeah. It's the... And I'm sure we're going to hear from people about how you can rootkit a woman. Tidal.
AlexThat one's good. All right. That's how they got Sony. That's it.
MerlinThose script kitties out there trying to make slender girls with permanent makeup like you. Anyways, yeah, I thought it was delightful. And, you know, so I think I must have heard it's about a robot girl. I guess I'm trying to say is like if the whole thrust of the story was there's a woman who's a robot and she doesn't know and that's the movie. Okay, that's cool. But like it's the when he hacks her to do the stuff and they build on all of that.
I felt like there's so many things. There's so many of Chekhov's different household supplies in this movie that are there from the beginning that are mostly laid out, I think, pretty subtly. Really? Especially if you don't know the twist. Yeah?
AlexI mean, I did not know.
MerlinThank you, Josh's car. Like, knowing how you can make the car do things by talking to it. That's been established. It's kind of like the way that Amber Gemstone, I said this to Billy. Guys, don't sleep on righteous gemstones. Jesus fucking Christ, this season premiere. But we're, you know, it's one of our favorite shows as a family, I feel confident saying. So we're rewatching the end of the previous season. And what was my point? Righteous Gemstones and watching this. I love how they established that Amber Gemstone, you know, the wife of Danny McBride, that she's not simply a better shot with a gun than he is, but that she's like a marksman.
that she's we've established in one shot that she's good with guns later on we establish she has a lot of guns hidden in the closet and still later on um we see her basically wait like out shoot a motorcycle gang while danny mcbride fumbles with his white revolver or his white you know pistol and then that becomes a funny bit because now everybody in the church is like yeah amber girl power he's like well you know the thing is i'm the one that actually you know and i but that's so beautifully laid out and in this one there's all first of all there's all the
clues in the first couple of scenes things that especially you did you get it more the second time
Alexhow many clues there are before we find out i mean maybe it's my prediction for robots in general but less than three minutes in i'm like wait are we so i don't think you're supposed to not know she's a
Merlinrobot. I know. Well, but then the question becomes, well, who all is a robot? Because I was like, is Kat, does Kat hate her because she's also a robot? I thought at one point. But do you remember the very first thing that Josh says to her? You can't lie to me. No, that's my next one. The very first thing he says to her is Iris, wake up. The, oh, from, oh, yes, that's the very first. The very first line. They're driving around. Thank you, Josh's car. They're driving around in josh's car and it's just after we've seen the flashback to how they met the meet cute that you
can select from a pull down menu fucking great line um when he says when he says her iris wake up because iris is snoozing in the car she's oh like how long was i out and blah blah blah that's how you have iris wake from sleep you see iris wake up right there um uh you know you can't lie to me one that's a i don't know if i got this or i'm just imagining it but when they're like i think at dinner or at some point when they're talking at the house she says i'm just not made that way or i'm not built that way or something like that
Alexshe said she says like i guess i'm just and i'm not that both i believe i which is why i'm like we are supposed to know she's a robot right and there's actually a shot of her putting away when she's putting away we see that we see the dongle and yeah but that that's uh what the goober that's what they call it in spider-man they call it a goober check off yeah it's yeah you and i was like okay yeah that's her outfits or like those are probably her outfits and you find out no that's
how he mods her or whatever it was it was really you thought that at the time yes because i thought
Merlinit was amazing that a woman took a long hot shower and came out and she had flawless makeup now i know I'm a guy, but I've known, if I could say with some candor, I've known a lot of ladies and I've known a handful of ladies intimately. And no lady looks like that when she gets out of the shower, even in a movie, you make an attempt to like go, Oh God, she's so pretty without makeup. Instead, she walks out and she's got a full on Mac lip. She's got, she's got eyeliner. She's got the, she looks, she looks terrific. And that was one where I was like, Hmm.
Alexyeah especially because cat has kind of like not smudged but by the end of the night her hair is a little bit flatter you know like and she's a little bit tipsy and uh that's how i um oh goodness gracious um this is this i realized put some like i had some like fat phobia in my brain because i'm like oh guillermo and you don't you don't know doll um i was like so the way they met the flashback
is the same the only other flashback we've seen is the one the dragon at the halloween party yeah uh and that's the only other flashback we've seen so far so you did you clock that guy as a robot I wondered after the flashback, I'm like, well, I generally wondered, well, who else is a robot?
MerlinWas I genuinely was like, because I wasn't sure. That's the beauty part. And this is I'm not going to get into it because I know I've become a pill about it. But the like people have gotten so fucking weird about spoilers. The easiest way for me to put this, quit worrying about spoilers for things you're never going to watch. And you know what? If it matters that much to you to not be spoiled, how about you fucking watch it? maybe not day and date but if you this means so much to you you know what i'm not gonna do sorry now i'm doing i'm going off i'm not gonna stop talking about popular culture because you can't
be fucked to pay attention to something that you claim is important to you and just like you can't expect the world to stop talking about things it's it's mental it was so hard for me on sunday night not to talk about righteous gemstones because i was losing my fucking mind about that episode anyways um but it it i i oh my god and also but like so yeah you're like okay the party's happening we're pretty sure she's a robot obviously something's going on here yeah that
Alexwell that's how and and at this point we've also seen i'm like wow they really put a lot of uh thought into the sound of that wine opener pulling out that i'm like that how many times is that
Merlingonna come back let's just pause let's just pause for a moment here i recently i believe as recently as last night, I declared an actor to be possibly my favorite of all the elevators right now. And that's the great Rupert Friend, who plays the Russian
Alexguy. Oh! That's Rupert Friend.
MerlinHe's the guy. He's the guy. I posted that funny gif yesterday from Death of Stalin. He's in that. He's in the Rat Catcher. He's my favorite elevator right now. Everything that I see Rupert Friend in, I go, oh, I love that
Alexguy. Is elevator your term? I really like that. Ah, that's a good one.
MerlinYou know the story, right? No. Oh, fuck. I thought she followed this drama over the last almost five years. Okay, this is not a bit. I dropped a bit. It's not a bit anymore. A long time ago, I said to our friend Todd, I'd love to do a podcast with you. One idea I have for a podcast is we talk about often character actors, especially, but people where every time they turn up in something, your first reaction is, oh, it's that person. Like, I like that person. And then over time you go like, you know what?
I really like it when that person shows up in things. And I feel like whatever they're in, hence the title, they elevate the movie.
AlexYes, that is.
MerlinMy biggest problem is I need to, for this list to make any sense, I've been keeping a list for five years. Todd and I keep adding people to the list. It'll be like, well, yeah, is that person too much of a star? Does Olivia Colman at this point still count as an elevator? I would say yes. because to see her fucking show up in the lobster holy shit she's so good in the lobster as well as uh everything else she's ever done including number wang um but uh but uh that's the other
Alexissue with an elevator is if you're an elevator long enough you're gonna keep going to the top like immediately i think of lee pace from you know he was initially in pushing daisies and the fall but then he was the star of he was he was he was running the accuser he was in um he was in
Merlinhalton catch fire he's a guardian of the galley yeah he's got he wears a lot of makeup in it he's a bunch of stuff eric banna you'd never recognize him in star trek he's a romulan did you know he's a eric the gorgeous eric banna from hannah and eric banna from hannah he he um no no but but but Rupert Friend he just every time he turns up in something and again I just I really recommend folks check out the Wes Anderson short films on Netflix he's really great in those he's wonderful in Death of Stalin he can do it I know I know him from Homeland
which is where he became a secret Brit for me like I didn't know that he wasn't American
Alexi uh uh really i going back real quick to the wine thing i was a little bit annoyed i'm like okay yes we get it yeah she's a robot that's gonna get to check off kitchen appliance but but by the end i had indeed forgotten about it so that you know the final stabby stab i had forgotten about it i'm like oh it was worth it all right it's it's it was fun it's like ex machina and bodies bodies bodies together i think i really enjoy the um like
Merlincabin in the woods love that movie what an underrated movie uh yeah oh i mean oh sorry i
Alexthought you meant the josh whedon movie well but i guess both like a the friends turning on each other situation yeah for sure it's own genre now but also uh i don't know the the comedy aspect of it i guess uh night in the woods sorry not night in the woods um cabin in the woods was put yeah
Merlinevil dead like you know any of the slashers you know where like the number of people is like disappearing or but are you talking about like a werewolf thing where we don't know who the baddie
Alexis no no i am i'm talking about just the modern version of it which cabin in the woods really isn't one of those because the weird twisted turns are like way separate but things like bodies bodies bodies and even ex machina is kind of a cabin in the woods situation of a like okay there's people here who are unfamiliar the rich guy likes to dance it is yeah like most of it The house needs to be big.
MerlinNeeds to have a tree growing in it.
AlexIt's a secluded house that's rich.
MerlinBy the way, do you know they use Matt Howey's house for that? I don't know if you need a... Matt Howey. I think he's doing like the Winchester house. Like he can never finish building. His modernist, post-modern monstrosity. He and Todd, that's all they do now is work on their house. Not that I'm angry.
AlexIf you have a house, I don't think you're ever allowed to stop building it or refurbishing it.
MerlinOr the ghosts of the people killed by your husband's rifle will come inhabited. The ghosts of your husband's rifle. Ooh, that's a nice line. And now, some of you are listening who haven't seen this movie, and you're going to fucking bitch about this, even though I already called spoilers. So with all due respect, sorry. But then the twisty McTwist comes toward the end of the first act, which is, this is all a setup. and they are using Beep Boop to commit a murder
so that they can get money. And initially it's only Josh and Kat. It's their scheme, right?
AlexMm-hmm, yes.
MerlinBut I like the way it kept revealing itself. Like it's not until late in the movie that they go like, oh, and you know what? I forget his name. The Rupert Friend character, you know what? He's not actually a bad guy. He's not actually like a criminal. He's just fucking rich, right? And we're assholes.
AlexThe way as the plan unravels, the story, more of the story is revealed. And that is part of the fun, I think. And why you can't really have spoilers, spoilers, because I guess the spoilers are like the plot. Even if you know that it's going to happen, I don't know. The part of the fun is watching it. I don't feel bad.
MerlinNo, no, no, not at all. But it's also got those elements of other kinds of robot. There's one that's just on top of my mind. I can't think of it. But one where, oh, you know what? Duh, fucking Westworld. Like where, oh, guess what? Now the robot has a mobile device that lets it adjust its own settings. Holy shit. How cool is that? She still can't lie, but you know what she can do? Is speak German. Oh, my God. What a great, what a great bit. But I thoroughly enjoyed that.
And I liked the reveal of, you know, I'm sorry, I don't know how to pronounce his name. So I'm just going to keep calling him Guillermo. I'm sorry. Harvey, how do you pronounce his last name? Do you know?
AlexI don't know.
MerlinGuillermo, from what we do in the shadows, who is delightful in all things. When we start, one of my favorite beats in the movie is like getting into the thing with him and the kid from White Lotus. I love that reveal how they reveal that he's a robot and then what that how they and he reveals that he knows he's a robot which is like fuck this is oh that was so fun do you remember that kid from White Lotus
Alexthe vaguely only because I've not
Merlindoes this line help you these gays they're trying to murder me no but remember Tom Hollander and the gays in season 2
Alexno I haven't seen no I have not seen season 2 just trailers in bits and pieces. But when Guillermo's like, fuck you, dad, I'm in love with the robot. And you see, I don't know, it is part of the fairy tale of, oh, there are real relationships along with the manipulation and the difference between Josh, oh, what a name. Josh.
MerlinWhen she comes awake in the chair, isn't that a wonderful scene?
Speaker AMm-hmm.
MerlinBecause as with Severance, as with Awake, as with all these kinds of stories, I think we talked about this or maybe I talked about Syracuse. But I was talking to my shrink about he was recommending this movie Awake with Jason Isaacs, of all people, about a guy who's sleeping in sleep and dream world are really screwed up. And one doesn't kind of know about the other. And I was saying how that reminds me of Severance. and the part that, whether it's severance or the substance, to bring that up again, I'm fascinated by the idea that you're now a bifurcated self,
and the one self does not have a direct way of knowing what is happening or has happened with the other self. Like the way that when Margaret Cawley wakes up, and the house is trashed, and there's food everywhere, it's like, she did that, because what did we learn in Act 1? You are one. You are the same person, but you are severed. You don't know what that other, that's why it's so interesting when we get into get the stuff with Helly R and you're like, well, what's that? You know, I, I, I love stuff like that because it's not just about sexy robots. It's not even just about, I mean, it's kind of about human consciousness and how we understand and form and maintain and advance our sense of self.
Alexi would even say it's more about how our sense of self is defined by how we use or do not use other people like it's pretty on the nose of like cat when she says i mean you can't uh control me josh but we see how like i i did not clock right away just how much this guy needed to control
anyone in anything like how much he thinks he has i love the way he like he thought this murder was go he thought that this was a good idea but it goes back to the flashback of the flashback i
Merlinlove the scene i know it's not plausible in a lot of ways well it's plausible it's maybe not believable. But I love when they deliver her in the crate and the guy is like working with Josh on the onboarding and Josh is clipping his toenails while he's waiting for her to sync with his phone. Oh, they've established the syncing with phone. They've established the making the connection with the robot, right? Further check off things, right? Where later on, you know,
Alexwe're going to see some change. Did you notice that when he opens the door, Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls is playing in his apartment.
MerlinI didn't catch it the first time. Yeah, it's that Is it that song? Yes. And the second, I was like, oh God, the fucking Goo Goo Dolls. You know, here's the thing. Soul Asylum. A cynical person would say that Soul Asylum took a lot of to put it kindly, influence from the Husker Du sort of, but especially the replacements in their early records. And then Soul Asylum, you know, like, you know, Lemonheads, they got real soft
and started doing songs in three, four time. But then fucking Goo Goo Dolls sounded like they were trying to sound like Soul Asylum after they were good. And it made me mad.
AlexAnd an optimistic person would say that... An optimistic person would say that a cute girl taught them to play Iris and guitar and has fun memories on just how fond memories of how easy that's. Yeah, yeah, it is sweet.
MerlinWait, I don't understand. Is that the story?
AlexYeah.
MerlinWait, Iris taught Bob Mould how to play guitar?
AlexNo, a cute girl taught me how to play Iris on a guitar.
MerlinOh, you personally, that was an anecdote.
AlexYes, yes. Just like how your personal feelings about the Goo Goo Dolls is an anecdote.
MerlinAlex, go to sleep.
Thank you.