390. Self-Involved Mess

This is Do by Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Alex Cox and Merlin Mann. This week's challenge, move your pencil until a secret falls out. Hello. Hello, Merley Man. How are you? I'm great, Alex. How are you? Good. Good, good. It's a it's a beautiful February here. I'm curious about your weather. I know we though we talk about weather a lot, but it is snowing here and I'm just thrilled I uh played in the snow earlier. But do you miss seasons as someone who did Ohio and then Florida? Yeah, sometimes. I miss the I guess the way I would put it's a good question. The way I would put it is that I miss seasons being where they normally are and for somewhere near the normal amount of time. It's we we've got you could if if you just if an alien came to San Francisco and many have Uh they would just think that like, oh, this place is just different.

Like every neighborhood has a different set of seasons. But uh yeah, I mean I miss like when other people Uh uh you know you don't get to share that, you know, oh the leaves are changing or whatever and you know, all that kind of stuff. Um I missed it a little bit, uh but uh you must like it. You're still there. Oh, yes, but that is uh such a desire I have that there wouldn't be any discussion of whether because it's A less interesting thing that we share and it's also point of contention in uh we share with whom the people around you. Okay. You know, when you have the common experience of like, yes, big snowstormer. Oh man, it's really hot. Yeah, yeah. That is the way people either start parties or start podcasts.

But uh Do you you don't have any like mmm cultural d is there cultural anger around Uh San Francisco? I've been thinking a lot about your city because the challenge is about pencils, which doesn't sound like it makes sense until you learn about the history of Blackwing pencils, but challenge later. And i the history of San Francisco is so interesting because there isn't like that bond about weather or the stupid mores that come with it, like dibs. Are you familiar with dibs? Oh sorry, the the parking space things. Yeah. Parking spaces, it's uh like the the very dig out of spot and put down a lawn chair, is that it's a Yes. Specifically a lawn chair. Because it not about parking. Uh because now it's become about like If you are at the park, you will dig out a little space where you sit at the park and then you'd think, okay, no one parks there.

They did call it hope. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Dibbs. Yeah. I don't know. I d I I moved here pretty late in the history of the city, so I'm probably not the best uh person to ask about that. But uh mm, I don't know. I don't a cultural anger about that? None that I'm aware of. You are the history of your city is one of websites. Do you wanna talk about your new website? The history of our city is one about websites. Uh no mm, I mean not not really, but Did you want to talk about Blackwing Pencils? Because I I don't think I knew that. Yeah, the You seem enthused about it. So we should you should talk about it. Um it was to uh Oh, I don't know what we decided to call it. But some of the things. I do, I do, don't worry.

But what is it about so you want to talk about pencils and so blackwing pencils, which are kind of pencil. Uh so that um y it's has has a history tied to San Francisco, huh? I didn't know that. Yeah, with n not so much specifically Blackwing, I suppose other but the wait no no no hold up hold up but right but uh hold up hold Here's the there's the thing is you cancel it. You can't do it. No, it's not a good thing. I will just be trying to follow along, you know. So it's not really about Blackwing. Is it also kind of not really about San Francisco? Where's what's the angle here? Is it what about weather? Is it about weather pencil? Yeah B Blackwing pencils are I uh known as drafting pencils, right right?

And uh Drafting pencils became really popular, not to draft necessarily uh like you'd think drafting pencils would be for creating some sort of architecture, right? Like l or at least for me, I was like, ah, I would use instead I would use construction equipment for buildings. Um I think they would be good for the preliminary blueprints of of a building Yeah, but that would be a good use for a sketching pencil probably. I yeah, I don't know. I haven't been out the out the out the trades for a while now. Excuse me? Yeah, no, you're exactly right. Okay. Oh, that's rare. No, I I'm mm I disagree. Okay. But uh Blackwing was really, really popular on rail in the West on railboard railroads and on uh gold digging uh or gold shifting sites.

Just because they didn't roll. That was such a big part of d their construction. Why was the hexagonal barrel their idea? Uh no, the the uh how would you call the bottom butt? Is that what a hexagonal arrow is? That was Ticonderoga or Toka ta what grade schoolers use. Right. Ticonder It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. But okay. Um just Okay. Um so Ticon Roga, they came up with the hexagonal idea. Now that's a very clever idea. Your your pencil can still roll, but it won't just take off like a baby carriage or something. It's got it's got something to resist being, you know, just round. in shape. And here's the thing, once you start getting things that are slightly irregularly shaped, I feel like sometimes it's a it's an adjustment at first, whether that's your flashlight or or whatever, but but eventually uh you really don't you start disliking the things that roll.

I don't like anything that rolls. No, I understand No, no, I think that's one of the things I admire about you is the distinctions that you make between, say, a tire on its side or a tire on its tire edge. I think it's very important. It's strong. When the when the yeah, a tire at rest will stay at rest. That's what that's what Kierkegaard said. Did he have anything to say about tire swings though? Because I made a really difficult thing. Wait, really? What do they tire lynching? What is it? What I know every language now? Alright, fair. What? What am I burlet? What are my burlets? Jeez la um so uh yeah these are neat. Uh the almost I know almost nothing about these pencils apart from the fact that I like them.

But uh I I feel like there's you know, everybody every company has to have a story now. And I think their story, they have a story about like didn't isn't there like a whole like Uh sorry about like reviving the company in like the nineties or two thousands? Yes. It oh I don't like that you said every company needs to have a story now because I It wasn't my idea. That would definitely not be my idea. If it were my idea, I would have rejected it very early on. I'm just having like flashbacks to every website I've gone to where I go to the about page trying to find a phone number or a phone. And you get little gets more about their journey. Yeah, I really like Tito's vodka. I don't like I don't need to know about the distillery in the video.

Check it out. Two generationally wealthy guys from Palo Alto invented something. That's cool. It really does always go back to San Francisco. I always think of those TV commercials. You you won't have seen these because you don't see a lot of TV commercials, but over the years there's a brand of uh a DTC brand of clothing called um Untuck It. And their value proposition is that they make sure it's for uh a a signed shirt at birth men who um who you don't have to tuck them in. And so but they don't look we th their th their idea is here's your problem. This is their business problem they're solving, is that men have to wear shirts. And and I guess men don't want to tuck their shirts in, but if you get a shirt with what we used to call tails on it You know, you look you look unkempt.

You you look like you're staggering home from a night out. Now on Tucket, they came up with this idea of a shirt that you you don't have to tuck in. And and the two guys stand there like bolt upright staring at the camera explaining their story and like what they had to go through in life before they designed their company. I'm looking at God, these men right now. No, you don't need to you know you really don't need to do that. That's just an example. I really want to. No, I think they're a wonderful Example of an Instagram brand. you could like present in how you stand until I saw this man and the various diagrams they provide. Again, I I I don't have a way to see those. You don't w need to.

Yes, yes. And uh and uh you know I I can't claim that there's that that many things that I learned from watching Shark Tank that are useful in my day-to-day, but watching enough episodes of Shark Tank, whether or not it's a good show, whether or not it's an accurate show, whether or not we're seeing what actually happens. There is a thing that I do feel like I picked up that at least makes sense to me, which is a very I want to say like it's kind of a Mr. Wonderful thing, but it's definitely a Mark Cuban thing, w where he like has such a good way of cutting straight to And he's so good at going like, wait a minute. Like I think perhaps one way if I were to try and oppose as Mark Human, I would say, so your idea is go into this incredibly low profit, uh costly area for new businesses being selling clothes.

And now you your unique thing is it's like every other shirt made except it's not supposed to be tucked in. It's kind of like those people who come in and like, yeah, I made a I made a bunch of pillows of uh like a child cradling baby's hands on Instagram. And prayer hands are like real gonna be really huge. And people like, well, no, you're just making a pillow with something on it. Anybody could make that design You and you're not really a pillow company, you're a you're a side hustle. A side hustle specifically uh that's a big thing. There's no barrier and entry at all. There's nothing There's nothing there's no IP to it. There's nothing if I so it but but and this all might sound very unkind, but the whole point or the theoretical point of Shark Tank is that you've come up with something other people have not come up with, could not come up with, will not come up with.

There's something special about what you've got, and that's what makes it worthwhile for a total stranger to have these theoretically successful people. you know, uh invest in it, right? Like you've come up with something that is different about some aspect of of man design, manufacturing, marketing, like whatever it is. And the fact that like you're the one who picks what the babies look like doesn't really make it that unique. And that th this just feels unjust I'm and I'm really not trying to single these guys out for, you know Criticism, 'cause I mean you gotta have uh business. But like it it it is funny that like their their thing is well and I'm sure I imagine anyway that if you got a uh uh a room full of PR people from on Tucket on the line, you'd hear about the lives that were saved, you know.

But like to me it mostly just seems like they made a shorter shirt. Yeah. And then acted like that was a thing. Oh, yeah, there are are confessionals. I know people can't see them, but I think it is important to know that there are confessionals. Because they built them for priests? Um none of a talking head thing thing? Yeah. Uh about how it was the best game. Oh, like where they say, can we just have a minute? I want to call my other investor, or that kind of thing. Oh, that is I don't know what you're talking about. I mean I'll just say it that one time, but okay. Yeah, so anyhow, yeah, what were we talking about? We're talking about pencils. And how uh Blackwing didn't invent the hexagonal one, but they have a connection to San Francisco, you were gonna tell us.

Oh They have a a connection w with like the whole ruggedness idea and when they did relaunch, like you said, and they're like they have a uh page on their website that s says our story and our values and about going back to the blue jean era, which all all right and just the the whole I don't know the whole ruggedness of it. And I didn't know. You could take it you could take it out gold mining and it wouldn't get all screwed up. You could just sharpen it with a knife, that kind of thing. It wouldn't roll. Yes. Yes. You could you could sharpen it with the thing. Gold mining like is that that I mean like apart from the saloon you go back to, what it won't roll off a rock, apparently, is the value of the position.

That's not how rocks do. I mean, I've also never seen a nugget of gold, so I don't I I don't know. Would would you be able to know whether you're looking at one now? If you saw one, if somebody said, hey, what's if somebody said, like I do with Chatty G, I'd say, hey, what's this? Like would you be able to go, oh, that that's a nut that's an that's a precious metal nugget. Yeah, but I w uh I I could say it and then there would be a well actually it's magnesium fluoride and it was painted g gold and then I would feel stupid and sad. Magnesium fluoride. I like the sound of that. It makes you shit but you do keep your teeth. Well I want to create that. I should be on Shark Tank. Magnesium O Well you can add stuff to magnesium that that makes it uh not chelated.

What's the word? There's a word for what they do to it. Uh I literally don't care. But uh yeah, you can uh you can treat magnesium in such a way that it it still helps your poops with or whatever, or sleep. I think a lot of people like it for sleep. The thing is I'm pretty sure you can also get a dose transdermally, and people don't realize that when they take a magnesium bath. Well mem, do you know what a bath is? I'm I believe Imagine putting something with magnesium into that water. But is is it like uh you put like the powder in? I actually don't know what magnesium. It's not really critical to the to keeping the the show moving. No, scrittables, I don't know. Is it like a bath bomb of magnesium?

And and but it gets in through your skin. It's not just through your mouth. It's not just through your yummy hole. It could also be through your pores and whatnot. And then you're like, oh my gosh, I had such a relaxing bath, but now I'm shitting and shitting. Watch out for magnesium is what I'm saying. But the fluoride is nice. Nothing wrong with that. Fluoride, fluoride, fluoride mandrake and ice cream in children's ice cream. Um hey, uh we can talk about the challenge if you want. I'm fine with that. I'll talk about whatever you want within reason. As long as it's on this on this list of uh pre-approved topics, I'm happy to to talk about it. I should have sent you a copy of that, by the way.

Uh a copy of uh I made a list of pre-approved topics. Oh, this is not a good bit. Um so uh we could talk about that. We'll talk about whatever you want. Weather, uh we can talk about the government. Hi, hi, hi. Scum my spine, I got my orange crush. What do you want to talk about? I wanna I wanna hear about your pencil journey. I'm Oh no, no. Okay, so the challenge this week was uh the short version of this is uh uh act like your pencil has a secret in it. And uh sharpen use, sharpen use your pencil until you've you found a secret that you find satisfying. And m the my thing, 'cause I'm not much ha ha boy, is that ever generous, I'm not much of an artist. I can't draw to save my life, but um but I I do like to form a glyph-like letter forms that make uh words And uh yeah, so that was that was the challenge.

I just I I like those kinds of funny, what would you call that? It's it's it's almost aligned with something like oblique strategies or Um, oh shoot, destroy this notebook, like those kinds of things. I said what's it called? Destroy this notebook? What's that called? Yeah. Anyway, but and yeah, a couple of people had mentioned that yeah, that this this this kind of reminds them of that the kind of like weird scrawl that I'm and everybody else is doing. But yeah, that was the idea. Did you find any good secrets? I didn't realize how much I valued the length of a m pencil and the reason I don't typically carry around mm mm black wing pencils is because they're really long and it takes a long, right?

You prefer a No, no. I prefer them short so they're you like a little chick pocket. I uh can. I I would say one of average length. A bit of I suppose a chode because it's like a a quarter not a quarter, like a a quarter off of the black uh or not black pencil, but like a typical plen pencil. So shorter than a black wing, shorter than a Tikon Doroga. Something that can be as a little bit shorter than the average smartphone. This is important. But perhaps I am being extremely stupid here, but I I feel like what you're struggling to say is a pencil that's been sharpened enough times that it's about four inches long. Uh mmm but Does it get actually stubbier? Does it get thicker? I mean is it like uh like a teen's pubes?

How uh is it getting thicker as you're as you're shaving it? Uh no I no, but I feel like it the tip does last longer if how you use it than a uh longer uh a pencil. I think it's how I am writing with Just that I I guess it's softer. It could be also softer lead. So that gets softer in the middle. Uh no, s softer led and I'm not pushing as hard also because there is something in the back of my mind that is Oh if I break this pencil, I don't have a pen with me because I'm just carrying around a little chody pencil. and uh field notes, which was how I was trying to find my pencil's secret. Oh And I end up writing even more intentionally because the I'm worried about the pencil in my pocket breaking.

And I thought that was. No, not stress. Introspection. No, not I wasn't walking around sweating, literally sweating. Yeah well about weather there. I uh It's called Dibbs. Resentment uh over dibs. But mm is resentment anger? That's like a whole chapter of the trauma book um by the Dutch guy But uh I also lost the er eraser of two pencils and that didn't bother me. And I'm I don't know. I have become eve I have become more of a physical not a physical pencil. All pencils, I hope, are physical. Um A m manual pencil? What's the technical term for something that's not a mechanical pencil, which is normally what I carry? Just a n mm really? Hold on. Chatty G, what's a non-mancle pencil called All right, it's just called a pencil.

Okay, fine, fine. Yep. Chat Chat GPT can make errors, so be sure to check all important information. It's very important. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Um yeah, I like these. Uh this represents one and a half tweaks to the way I normally just like spend my day. Um, which is to say that I usually have this one like A5 size notebook and I use a tool, you know, pen with that. That's that's my that's my that's my I don't know, it doesn't matter, but that's at home and at the office. So I have one of those no notebooks open all the time next to where I sit at home and I have one open all the time right here where I sit at work. And normally I I really like writing with a pen, uh a little that pen we've talked about.

Doesn't matter, this is not an affiliate link. And uh, but but but I also do really like using these pencils. I and as I said before, I just I love the way they smell. I just think they're neat. I I I said um I think last time yeah, it must have been, on the uh after show that it's just a um it's a surprisingly affordable tiny bit of luxury in in something that is part of what I do. And I could I could continue that sentence and say for work, but really it's just things I do. And uh then as I also said, like I I've kind of gone through and I this might have all started with me talking about how I think I have a new pencil I like, which is the the matte ones, the Um but like there's all these different black wings you can find the one you like.

Uh but I yeah, I I've settled in on a couple of these. One interesting not secret but meta secret was that I started off I I ended up doing scribbling on about three, four pages. Uh I started off with my usual super soft lead and then I discovered I you know what? I kinda like the slightly harder, sharper lead for being able to write small. Right? And like to be doing like the equivalent of like little marginal jokes and stuff like that and little labels and stuff like that. And so I ended up coming around. My one and a half secret was that I kind of came around a little bit to a slightly harder lead for that, but that's not really a secret. It's outside the band. Is this the Blackwing 602 that you were using?

The half the pressure, twice the speed that I'm looking at? I'm not looking at a website, Alex. I'm not looking at a website, I'm looking at a pencil that I'm holding. I'm looking at two pencils I'm holding. You're trying to tell me as you speak as you sit there right now that there's a pencil that has that phrase written on it? Yes, I'll send you a picture. No, I wish you wouldn't. No, just keep do just keep trying to do the show. Listen. Okay. Ready? No, I'm I'm listening. I'm done. Okay. What I have brought in is a bunch of pencils because I had a feeling I somehow had an idea that you might want to talk about pencils. So I brought in some of my pencils and I can answer that. Uh I think the one I Like, I as I mentioned numerous times now, matte or soft, there's like different ones.

Um but the other one is a and I think I've I can only find one of these now. Shoot, I wrote it down. Oh give me a second. I brought even had the presence of mind to bring in my notebook and my extra sharpeners and all of my things. And the one that I like. This is me killing time, so bear with me. Um the one that I like is a pencil that is of a type. And the one that I like is a pencil that yeah, here we go. Um Oh, Blackwing 24. And it's one of those ones where it's really hard to read because it's like it's it's just an indentation more than printed You know what I'm talking about? Sometimes they they have some of their varietals where the um printing is just an an impression on the barrel and it's like not really like inked in.

So it's you kinda gotta if you're like me, you kinda gotta look at it at an angle in bright light. But that's yeah, I have to use the macro camera on. I put I finally put that in control center. Uh I love it so much. What is this one called? I think it's 24. I like that one I think I feel like the softest one see now you sent me a picture and I asked you not to do that. Um I think the softest one that it was on the way already. I couldn't I couldn't stop it. That's how long it takes you to send a picture of of two two pencils Yeah. Yeah. Oh let's close to like say should we should we m no please stop sending me things. Should we move to signal? Would that be better? I don't know what signal is.

Um the John Dickerson pencils, the hardest job in the world pencils, which come in a beautiful box, I feel like the softest ones to me. I actually have a chatted G thread about this. I'm not gonna look it up. But um yeah, it would be neat. I you know, I I wonder if they sell a variety pack. I'll bet they do. Because, you know, it would be kind of costly to just like buy a giant box, like a box of twelve of all of their pencils. Uh but I I I I and and ordinarily I would I would think that this this this line of inquiry is a little bit masturbatory, but I think when it comes to pencils, if you're gonna be a pencil person Oh not a pencil person. Jesus Christ, I hope I'm not a pencil person. But if you're gonna like, you know, experiment with a pencil being a different way of interacting.

with a medium, it's nice to get, you know, as hard or soft as you want. And that's why, like, you know, all the times that I've uh quote unquote try to learn how to draw and I get like a little set of like six drawing pencils. The first thing I do of course is like make a little grid of how dark and thick they all are. But you Oh, here's a secret. This is pretty good. Mm-hmm. Go on, go on. You think you're testing out your pencil? And you are in a sense, but what you're really, but you have to but testing the pencil means using the pencil. You can only learn so much by making scribble marks. Not that there's anything wrong with scribble marks, big fan. But uh but yeah, the the real the challenge inside the challenge, the secret in some ways is like you're gonna you've got to use it for a while to know whether it's right for you.

And and the answer for a lot of people is like, why would I care? Or why would that make any difference to me, which is fine. Um, we were specifically told when you know, beginning of the year school supply stuff, we were specifically told to go get a box of Ticonderoga pencils. Which I mean it it almost feels like a jam of. I imagine they chose those because they they work fine and they're not very expensive and you can buy them at a drugstore. I'm not anti-Ticodoroga. I think it's kind of arguably the classic pencil of our time for most people. This this stuff feels a little bit masturbatory. I apologize. Isn't the idea of a small luxury kind of masturbatory in itself? And that's not necessarily a a bad thing I wouldn't I'm certain I would absolutely not put it that way, but go ahead.

Uh Pleasuring oneself. That's that's a little more than I wanted to. I was gonna say making a self-involved mess. Well, see, very, very different. 32 different words. Well that's why you're describing uh you're describing a m a mess that's no, no. I uh uh like think about the goons. Are you aware of the goons? And they're Peter Sellers, Spike Milligan. No, the the gooners are a subset of people who have masturbation as their one of their main forms of recreation and take a lot of pride in how they masturbate, in what ways the and I find them fascinating because they're they're a group of people that I very much want to make fun of. but also respect because they know who they are and they know that th society sees them as a mess and are trying to reclaim their image.

It sounds like I'm a gooner now. I don't like this. Oh no. I don't think thing uh using pencils or being a pencil guy is masturbatory. Like I I uh use I I wasn't saying that. I was I was Yeah, so um but it also could be that that's just uh a bit that they do for the world. You never know. Being a pencil person could also be a a a bit one does And it's just I don't know. I like drawing circles over and over in my notebook and I don't know I do too. I I like drawing little circles. I like making like little bubbles. It's and it m is sort of a similar thing of like, oh it's n it's not about actually making the circles, but it is about uh letting my mind wander while I make the little circles and then slowly realize that the circles are becoming softer because I am using both using less lead and I have softer lead because and I'm also using the Blackwing matte pencil because um I stole a bunch from uh an office.

And I I don't know if it would recently. Oh no, that would have been a great idea, but not really. That would be a shitty reason to go to jail. Uh what would be a good reason to go to jail? That's I feel like this is a good thing. Get out there. Knit that hat. I I would like uh resist. Resistance. Uh the I Uh using a pencil just becomes more reflective than using a pen because I don't think about the pen until it has completely run out. Yeah, I I think that is I think I I find that to be I can't say if it's true. I find that to be accurate and uh I think a million years ago I talked about this on a website. But like I I think there are certain kinds of uh use cases. This is really dull. But like there's all the different kinds of use cases where you could think about like, okay, you could get like a there's a brand of notebook called Right in the Rain Um the the pages are kind of waxy and you can with a pen you can write on them in the rain.

Like that's for writing in the rain. It's like basically a Scottish notebook. You know, and there's those kinds of things. There's the kinds of things where it's like, you know, you think about engineering notebooks and I don't understand a lot about this, but I've heard it said that one thing about an engineering notebook is you you can't like tear out pages. You've got to fill every page. There's all those things about being able to show that this was your idea. kind of so I don't exactly understand it, but all of those are different use cases. Signing a contract. Like maybe don't use maybe, you know, maybe if we're gonna try and be wise about this thinking in great detail about the pencil with which you'd most like to sign your mortgage is not going to ultimately be fruitful because the real estate person, the lawyer is going to hand you a pen and they're not going to really care what pencil you like to use.

Right. With that said, like I do think there are certain I don't know, and uh I I I feel this way about like and I'll say this to Billy sometimes I'm like, ooh, like I'll hand him a notebook and a pen or a pencil and go like check this out, check out this combination. Because we both appreciate We each have our preferences or appreciate certain kinds of writing instruments with certain kinds of paper. Like, you know, having a big puffy sketchy pencil with a toothy sketch notebook is can be really cool. But you know, whatever works for you, it's just that the thing I'm struggling to get at is sometimes the resistance is a feature, not a bug. So like when I'm just writing to like get stuff out of my brain and I'm making lists and stuff like that and it's like tertiary or secondary to what I'm actually doing in a given moment, all I need to do is get something on to a piece of paper.

in a way that I can figure out what it meant later. Like what did I write down and what is the context for why I wrote that down? Right. But I mean that's why I love the notebooks that you recommended for forever uh ago. Uh the eight bar eight bar five, eight by seven, I don't know. I am going to put that in notes I don't know if you mentioned the best part, which is that it is perforated and really easy to just rip out the pages and in the ceremonious way. I like field notes. Uh I I mean I've you know I've b been around field notes and I I really more collect field notes more than I use field notes because while I like that they fit into a pocket, they're awfully small. for what I want to do.

They don't stay open for what I want to do. And, you know, they don't they're not they're they're stapled. They're not like bound in a way that lays flat. Now A am I saying that to say that somebody else's preference in a notebook is bad? I'm not. I'm merely, you know, not in the sense to you, but like it's just a way of saying, well, that's the whole point. The whole point of doing something like this is to get stuff the way that you want. And I'll tell you a funny thing is like if you get into uh, I don't know, keeping a journal, let's say. Uh I think that's where this stuff becomes so weird and personal that's difficult to talk about in a way that's sane because some people want to be able to write really fast.

Some but I mean there's Bujo pens apparently. You some people want to be able to write really fast. Some people want to be able to write with a really s thin line, right? It it all varies. So if I had to like summarize that it would be to say that like in your given one's given application you find the combination of writing instrument and medium that will give you the right velocity or give you the right care or you know oh sorry one more famous one that I I always feel like I should mention is um What's her name? Um Natalie Goldberg in Writing Down the Bones. She talks about how you should get what I would call the opposite of a moleskin notebook. She buys like Snoopy notebooks at the drugstore and fills every every uh square s you know, millimeter of every page with writing with the specific idea of saying, yeah, this is like the the the cheapest, dumbest little Snoopy notebook you could get.

But like I d I have no admonition about putting any mark in this book. And y once you start actually writing instead of thinking about writing, then that becomes a way where you go like oh, tick the box. That's w that's One or two or three less things that I need to think about and I can just go do the thing. Which is ultimately the goal is just go do the thing. I don't know if that was in writing or if this was in writing down the bones bird by bird or just from you. But r the idea of just putting um the first page of a journal, notebook, whatever you want to use, that the first page is profound. And I like to put the first page is is not profound. I have learned that tr trying to use field notes for everything um is uh silly.

And the reason that I don't mind again, just just so we're not we're not trying to drag any given thing. It's just that we all change. We all No, no, but I just want to clarify so it doesn't cause you have to understand. People are very, very stupid right now. And there are gonna be a lot of people who say things like, I thought you liked field notes. And I just want to be very clear that this is not a competition and there is no affiliate link. And if you're wondering what draft what uh app I'm in, it's probably drafts. Okay? Let's move on. So in this instance, uh yeah, that can work great. And in some instances that works great. I'll tell you one thing that uh field notes are great for is you can deploy them in different places.

So eve it's far from being like my primary notebook, my my backright pocket notebook is actually a pile of index cards. But but for a notebook notebook You know what's great is like you can deploy those in little bag-in-a-bag situations. Like if you've got like a little bag for your cables and a battery charger or whatever, you could just have one in there. You could toss one in your uh in one of the pockets of your suitcase. So you've always got This is just how my brain works. But it's it's all context. It's all it's context and it's also exper experience or preference, if you like. Right. So like these will work f great for some people in some situations and not all people in all situations.

That's all. I just wanted to get that out I it's really you glossed over it uh kind of, but for me, I think that I didn't realize how similar for me it was to software because I can preach about just opening drafts or text edit and just or n just just do the the thing. Um but for the longest time I I was carrying around a Uh it wasn't what you mentioned, but a have one here, a glorifier all-weather notebook. Because it's like, all right. No matter what is happening. Oh glory fire. Glory to fire very very um like E D C type thing where c like a pencil and why I didn't prefer carrying a pencil around Like whatever. Okay. I said EDC. I made the assumption, people might know what that is, and you said that's a good idea.

I want it I want everybody who doesn't know what that means to be enjoying this. Okay. Because I really do not want to get into a contest about taking a well-knulled photo of everything you claim to carry in your backpack. Because you're all gonna be dead soon and you're gonna have that to remember. I almost did work here once. Fuck me. I'm not gonna send you a uh a picture of my desk right now, but it's most I've used it. No, I'm not gonna send you a picture of anything. I've added you to my host file. I actually can't see anything to do anymore. I can't even hear this. I'm doing this from memory. Can you hear me whisper? Uh the I just thought that I what I had to say must be so precious that I would always I just always needed a way uh to put it down in my glorifier all weather notebook.

Um and then I never did because you know that Uh it's similar to the waxy paper, which i I guess it kind of is. It's not pleasant to write on and you know, uh for some reason a grocery list because I don't know why I and this is not a not any kind of a drag on Scotland, but just in particular. I don't know why. I just imagine some kind of like I realize this is Ireland, not Scotland, but I imagine some kind of Brendan Gleason type character in like a big overcoat. like in a moor or like on a cliff or something and he's wearing a slicker and and he's got his little tiny Right in the Rain notebook and a little tiny stubby pencil and being able to like I don't know, count Stoats or something. That would be so much.

Oh my god, I would love that job. Okay, first of all, can I just say I love Stotes. I love Stotes. I love Stotes. And and and listen, listen, listen. uh uh uh uh uh UK, I I know it's different when you live with them. Like I I would have less affection for stoats and hedgehogs and red foxes. if I live there. I understand that. Cause 'cause in them foxes uh foxes are to Inglang. as say what raccoons? I was just gonna say that. Or possums probably. Yes. To our UK friends, let's trade. Raccoons to stokes. No, hello. Hello, UK. Hello, hello, hello. Sorry, you gotta do it. You gotta do it in the voice. Hello. You saw these things. Raccoons, do you I raise my boy. Dol Nol Gleason to count me stones.

Get back. Get get back from all them movies you that you zin. He might be the one who died in Libya. in the war. No, he ha he's the one who marries um Mary's Fleur from the Bobattins, who's also in tenant. Remember remember the Bow Battons? No, no, not even a little. Haven't seen the fourth Harry Potter movie? Is that the implication here? Not eight times and other things. You know what you didn't remember is that you've sent me The Wizard the Goblet of Fire. When you meet the wizard You sent me updates to our calendar that were identical three times since Monday. Have I really? Oh, I was like, why does Merlin keep denying or uh keep I don't know. We definitely start at twelve thirty your time every single Wednesday forever.

Always, always, always. And that can just be a thing you write down and we remember. I uh yeah. You gotta remember to remember, that's what I always say. I did do one little drawing. I made a drawing of a little Italian waiter that I think is kinda cute Um and um and um yeah and so anyways, let's get past all of that, the politics um of that to uh d uh what's of Pencils? The politics of what? The pros and cons of hitchhiking? Pear pimples for hairy fish nuts? Say words. What? Oh god. Oh, trying to navigate the difficult Atlantic, freezing Atlantic waters, the the Atlantic cod of uh internet opinion. I was looking into horns. I think the key is I want a horn that makes a noise when you squeeze it and then a noise when it contracts.

I kind of want one of those hea kind of horns. Wouldn't that be fun? I can play along with the clown and everyone says who doesn't need to hear the horn. I should get a calliope. Can I get a little caliope? I think a little clown. You don't control me. Do you control me? Oh my god. Oh that would be a nightmare. Oh, how's that? Oh, because you'd feel guilty I no, no, no, oh that sounded terrible. What does? That could be in yeah. Ah I feel terrible for all the bad decisions you've you've made. Oh I see. So I should feel shame about myself involved mess. Oh God. It's everywhere. This mess. They cleaned the Merlin Dean Mann the Third. This mess is so self-involved. Get in here. Merlin Dean, man the third.

Um and I like little Oh yeah, so like I was saying, it kind of reminds me a little bit of something from uh, you know, the you so you you know what oblique strategies are and our our listeners can look it up, but sometimes I find um you never know. There's hmm, here's a phrase I haven't used in a while. Um, trying to find a way in to something is like something I think about because of like how my chemistry is. Sometimes uh in a way that might seem a little bit circuitous to other people, certainly will seem circuitous or stupid to other people. Sometimes I need to find a way in to something. And we could take this a million ways. That could be like, well, how do you get into Doctor Who? Or how do you start writing a in a journal uh every day or whatever, right?

It there's sometimes you need a way in. I think a thing to keep an eye out for, if if I may say I think I might have the experience to feel confident saying this, uh be careful of the false gods, the false idols of things that feel like a way in and aren't. So like you probably don't need to buy all the notebooks and all of the pencils. You don't need to try all of those unless that helps, but There's a meta skill in part in in all of this, which is like developing a better internal barometer for whether this is getting closer to where you want to be or not, and catching yourself before you get a little silly and make a self-involved mess all over your mom's nice new towels. She specifically asked you not to do that.

Oh god. Oh uh do you have a first one? Ew, uh do you have a first best or I'm sorry, a um first, best, and favorite when it comes to pencils or journals? Uh I'm not gonna be cute about it. No, I don't. I was gonna be cute about it and say the one the one that would have gotten this done for you two days ago. Um because thanks thanks. The only way you can tell a real priority is whether it's done. Everything else is just a good idea. Or in my experience a theoretically good idea. If it were a priority it'd be done. I used to be good at this. And then I wasn't. And uh and now I'm here and I'm used to it. Hmm. Um I just like I think s sometimes you can find a way it we're all different, thank God.

But sometimes there's a way one way to find a way into something is you can find a I don't know, like a little trick. on yourself that's pretty harmless and might get what you want. And so I feel like, I don't know, uh I'll be real. There might be one, two, three people out there who heard me say keep using a pencil till y a secret falls out. And that might in spite of the vast number of people who would understandably find that a s sort of a silly thing for a grand person to say, uh and there might be somebody out there who goes, like, oh, that's kind of a way in. Cause cause cause here's the thing. Let me sp can I spoil it. Yes. Uh if I did a big post or a video or a whatever, I could conceivably and I probably have you know, tried to make the same case that all of those writing uh people say.

You know, whether that is Annie Lamotte in her way with the shitty first draft, or whether it's, you know, um, what's her head? Writing down the bones with uh getting into the habit of re or you know, for that matter, um Morning Pages. You know, that the the Morning Pages lady. Um they're all kind of saying a a if not the same thing, a very similar and equally useful thing from different angles, right? Is it okay if we talk about this for a second? Yes. Okay, so Annie Lamotte, one of my favorite things I got from Annie Lamotte is what she calls a shitty first draft, which is a way of saying that like no matter how good a writer you become or hope to become, uh, you've got to make your peace with the shitty first draft, which is where you just you get everything out and you aren't editing yourself about whether or not this is good.

You're not Chiding yourself about whether this is useful. You're not criticizing yourself about whether I'm far enough along. The only thing that matters is the marks on the page. And so d don't if like and so I'm here, I'm I'm doing I'm putting on my my Annie Lamont hat here, but I think I feel like what she's saying is that you've got to accept the brokenness of that process. And it's not, as a phrase I find myself using more and more lately, it's not in spite of the process, it's because of the process. Another way people again featured on a bug thing. Yeah, it'd be nice if you if everything was perfect the first time you wrote it, but that's not really a reasonable goal for anybody, especially you.

Listener. Right. So Annual Mats says shitty first draft. Always get okay with the fact that you're gonna like, you might even throw this entire thing away, but you will be further along than you were before you started the shitty draft. And then in Writing Down the Bones, which is a really, really, really good book. Just it's kind of about, if not the craft of writing, it's a almost like a way to not trick yourself, but to create conditions for yourself where you can be somebody who creates a lot of writing. And in the case of Morning Pages, Julia something? I'm sorry, I don't remember the author's name. All I know is that that the time I briefly met Maria Bamfort. She ran up to me and said that she does morning pages and then ran away.

And so the idea of that is I memory serves is you write you write, I do morning pages. I just done my talk about creativity in the seduction community. And and and this little Wood nymph. I never tire of telling this story. This little wood nymph, maybe the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life, about two and a half feet tall, ran up to me and said, I do morning pages. And then she scurried away. She has a scurry is the only way to describe the way Maria Bamford moves. It's just a joyful scurry. It's kind of stilt-like, actually. Oh if I'm a factory. that produces nothing but red flags. Um and so the third one, Morning Page. It's always been it's well all of us at some point has been a red flag factory.

Yeah, I'm just trying I'm just trying to get the quote right, but th she's really funny. Uh and then the third one, Morning Pages, I remember the whole idea of that is you just you write three pages, like you know, whatever double spaced or whatever, but like you longhand write three pages every day and that's part of a process that what does she call it, the artist way. And um I I'm not here to stomp for any of those as the answer to any given human problem, let alone a specific human's problem, but I the the the the good direction of Annie Lamotte's advice and why am I forgetting her name? What was her name? Who wrote who wrote writing Down the Bones? Julia oh uh Julia Cameron did Artist Way.

I don't know who did writing Down the Bones. I want to say Nadine Gordimer, but that's a South African writer with toxic shock syndrome. Who died? I what's her name? Uh Natalie Goldberg. Natalie Goldberg. Yes. Natalie Gold. All three of those folks are kind of trying to give you the same gentle piece of advice, is that And I I would not be hastily summarizing that vice if it hadn't turned out to be accurate for me, over and over and over again. Which is the only way to write is to write. The only way to to get better, to do, to anything, to, you know, Osair is you just gotta keep the pencil moving. And you've gotta just you've gotta keep going whatever your version of that is. And in this case, we've given you now three beautiful different versions of that that you can take any way you want, but it's You cannot I feel personally that we I benefit from writing.

I just I don't even know what I would be like if I didn't have it. And but It's also it can be difficult sometimes, especially if it's for assignment or for deadline or for like whatever it is, or you don't like the rules of what you've been told for how this thing has to be written or whatever. But In each each of those instances, if you were to give that a shot with a good heart, you would find yourself writing more. It would be difficult not to. And if you can read all three of those, and then maybe eleven more, and you're still not producing words, then maybe it's not your thing. Or maybe it's not your thing right now. But all of those all of those are I'm trying to somewhat studiously avoid the whole issue of like what's the best pencil to be a writer.

I don't know, it's like asking what's the best chair to play video games, you know. But anyhow, uh that's that was my thought on this. So I but I do enjoy a model like that sometimes. I mean if I I would never Uh I would I wouldn't know where to begin how to teach a class on writing. But if I did, I think that this is this would be an exercise, I think, somewhere in the first couple weeks. Keep keep moving your pencil till a secret falls out. I know that we end on jokes, but that's no, that's a good uh uh thought. That is a the thought I'm gonna do that. Well did I talk about other things I want to talk about? Yeah, it's a good idea. Oh, here's my picture. Oh, I put this on the internet. It's hard to see, but you can see I do this I do this little Italian waiter and he says he's fine.

He's not great, but he's okay. And I like the way he looks. He has a pointy bald head and he's got a towel over his arm, kind of. I really like drawing bow ties. I find them satisfying 'cause it's it's two triangles a and a circle in my head. So I give him a little bow tie. He might be taking your menu, I think. It looks like you can tell from his face they do things a little bit different here. It's a familius. It's a family style. You know they can't see this, Merlin. They can't see this or my un untouched men that are sitting they can't see your little uh um Italian waiter. They can't see the untucked boys. They and they do look like boys. They don't look like adult men. Um is there anything else?

Oh yeah, so I guess I should say what my secret was. Hey, did you find a secret? We didn't talk about that. That's okay if you did if you oh you know also you would totally still well obviously you've done the challenge, so you've already won. But like it you could also then just say whether you found a secret. And then also uh if you chose to, you could say what that secret was. It's all totally up to you. I want to honor your boundaries. Um, if I'm away from Chicago too long, I start to feel physically unwell. And That's what you realized? Yeah and that well that's a secret that started to really fall out of the How did that come out of the writing or the sp scribbling? Is it because you just because your mind was occupied with other things?

Sometimes that helps a lot. You know what I mean? I mean there's so much shit that's occurred to me while I'm urinating, taking a shower, or on the treadmill. Like there's so many things where like my brain has to be in a slightly standby mode to realize something. It it was more um that the s uh no, because it's i it's like there wasn't a stand any sort of standby d standby mode. There was no Point. You were actively thinking about this when it was happening. Um I w sorry, the I couldn't I did not have time to think about anything because the s suburbs are filled with so many like areas of in action but that require some little bit of uninteresting. Yeah, that that's that's that's one of the myriad reasons I personally dislike not just simply actively driving but just being in a car.

Is that especially driving though, it's like, boy, you sure as hell better be paying attention to what's going on. Yeah. But you're yeah, your your your attention gets so fragmented with suburban life. It really does. My I I don't call them morning pages. I just have to write five hundred words before the clock gets to p PM or I feel icky. Uh not physically unwell, but uh m all of them. That's like going to the gym for some people probably. Yeah, and and I I still do those when I'm in the suburbs, but they're bad and they make me feel bad. uh the yeah uh the su uh suburbs uh the sort of suburbs of of Chicago and just slowly start to uh No no no. Like the pencil literally I can't start to erode and eat bad things.

Yeah, I okay. Man, I don't know. I'm just imagine somebody like Nick Nolte saying that, like in Tropic Thunder. Start to really erode eat bad things. The Light up that tree line! I'm both expanding from all this sodium and becoming more boring in my doodles and uh and writing. But you are becoming a little bit of a verse writer That that's like a beautiful poem. I love that. Yeah, I just and um the by consciously carrying around a pencil instead of a pen this week, it um being Like I I figured out uh that I become more intentional w with a pencil because I don't want to break it, but also that uh That's interesting. I used to know a fella I used to know a fella and I and um a friend of mine said about this guy, he walks around like he has a potato chip up his ass and doesn't want it to break.

And I thought that was cool. And that's upsetting and impressive at the same time. Middle school in Florida, I mean it might as well be a Pulitzer, you know? Before that, the most profound thing anyone ever said in Pascoe County was yelling free bird. Uh-huh. If I stay here with you, girl, things could never be the same. I'm sorry. If I stay here with you they, um, you know, because I'm as free as a bird. You understand? That bird you cannot change. Um I'm gonna I should send you a link. You're muttering again. I'm gonna send you a link to do do do do do do do do what's the name of my thing? Oh yeah. Um I I I I not not this is not to uh pump my own pony at the Pink Pony Club, but it is just a way of uh if you scroll down in this you the listener will be able to see three of the pages that I scribbled.

Uh and I can you put that into your uh if you decide to do little notes, can you put that in? Nope. No? Oh. I don't think that has the three pages in it, but you could surprise me by saying that it is. I think the one you want is the historical cost of dancing medicine, which I have just sent to your internet inbox. Um and here's my I only I only felt um I mean now that okay so here's a funny thing I think is like It I and I and like this is a bit, a little bit, right? I mean, it's not like we're gonna lose sleep over whether we've found a secret in our literal pencil yet. It's not that. That's it's an exercise. But you commit to the exercise and that's what makes it useful, right? Um So I had one at the time that I thought was good, but now I've realized there's a few other good ones in here and I'll share them with you.

I wrote down do not try to explain the Philip Glass joke, which I've already I already broke this rule and and I already tried to ex I had this idea for a joke about Philip Glass. that made no sense. And I realized that I still I wanted to explain why I thought it could be funny. And then I said I said to myself, I said, do not try to explain the fill up glass. But then I did it anyway. But luckily it became a funny bit. No, it's not even done. That's the problem. It's not even done. No, no, no, no. If you really want to find it, you can, but it's bad. I also realized there's three music videos I think might be perfect. I realize season seven of The Walking Dead is stressing me out. I started talking a lot about Top Hats after last week's episode.

I realize I I want to think more about top hats. I wrote down something here and it's very small, but here's what I wrote and I think I like the oh I wrote down authority as a dark pattern. That's weird. I wrote down Oh, okay. So this is one of those imagine I'm gonna do this in my Oscar Wilde mode that I go into sometimes. Go on. Um, all most people want to talk about uh Belay of that. All that most people want to talk about is when they did something and why you did something. I don't know if I agree with that, but I like it. I don't need you to agree with that. I wrote it down here. I know. In my experience, uh uh uh talking to a lot of people, well, the the they want to tell you a fact they know.

about something, whether or not it's like relevant in the context, but often they want to talk about like when something happened. But their their curiosity is is much more uh insightful uh about why why why other people made the decisions that they did. So it's okay for them to say, like, whatever I went to a seance in nineteen ninety-two, but it but at the same time that's that's fine for them to just stipulate, but then they'll say to you, Yeah, but I I thought you liked field notes. Why'd you stop using field notes? And then what do you how do you respond when somebody asks you a question like that? What do you say? When somebody says to you something like, Well, I thought you loved field notes, why why'd you stop using field notes?

How do you respond to that? What do you say? Why do you think I stopped? You say you say you why am I not a potted fern? Riddle me that Batman. It's very hard to define why you're not anything, if you really think about it. If you really if you were to be the sort of person who thinks about things and spent half a fucking second thinking about something, you would realize that in your own life, there's probably not that many things that you're you're super enthused to talk about why you stopped doing. Because a lot of times you didn't even really stop doing it. It's just the world changed. That's a secret. Oh yeah, I realize shit. I realized that three of the different places I worked in high school were probably a front for something illegal.

I realized that. Share what what you hadn't share all of them. It's not it's all in those scribbled pages if people could be fucked to look at it. Um I was seeing the case. I'm still talking so important. I I I my first job uh was at first job outside of my family and you know r allied Enterprises was um because my family's company was called Allied Enterprises. It wasn't, we didn't have a company, so uh Sometimes I just wanna talk like Richard Splatt. I was hired, there's an admin paper in the Sun Coast News, and they said, uh, hey, hello, hello, hello, new English restaurant is opening up Uh, where was it on Trouble Creek? Hey, come on out and we need a bus boy. Come on. I told you about this job, right?

My first ever like real boy job. Did I ever tell you about this? I don't think so. I thought McDonald's was the first one. I can make this really fast. Uh I showed up in a three-piece suit uh to be to go in and learn, you know, uh about getting hired at this place. And it was this family-run-ish company that I think had the two people who ran it and one other sorry, two other employees. So there was this couple. who I later found out were deranged, uh, there was one guy with a mustache who worked in the kitchen, and then there was like whatever waiters, and I was being hired to be a busboy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anyway I got hired by that place I came and they said come in wear pants and uh bring a bow tie and you'll be our bus boy And I and the thing is I showed up after school to work on the big my first job and I'm of course I want to make a great impression.

I show up in my bow tie and they said, Okay, well you can take off your your clip on bow tie because you need to. Go talk to the guy with the mustache. And the guy with the mustache has probably two hours of kitchen work ready for me. I've got to clean every pot. You ever clean our Yorkshire pudding pot? Like I had to clean all of the pots. I had to prep all of I had to do all the vegetable prep, you know. Um just to be clear, I thought I was going to be a busboy in an English restaurant, but instead it turned out that I was helping the guy with the mustache in the kitchen. And then the the woman of the couple, uh, w when a when a table when somebody left, she would come in and tell me to put on my bow tie and come out and clear the table.

Then I go out and I clear the table with my bow tie on and I'd bring their dishes. Back into the kitchen and then I do those dishes and then go back to helping the man with the mustache. Oh my god. Oh so then one day we drive by after after a couple weekends of this Um my mom said, Oh, I'm gonna go pick up my paycheck. Right, I go in, I'm gonna get my paycheck. And I don't know how I remember how much it was, but it was not uh anywhere near what I I mean pr I was probably expecting forty dollars and got twenty dollars or something like that, right? No. No, no, but but the point is I thought it was gonna be a lot more. No. It's a bus boy. I was a bus boy in the bus bus boy. I I thought maybe they would pay for you being a some part of your well-formed adult brain that thinks, huh, maybe they should pay him as a prep cook.

Could that be part of it even though I w right? That's I I was doing a lot of stuff. Oh and then of course I would close and so do all the disgusting things of being a closer. Um I thought you were implying that you were also helping some cocaine distribution, which is why I thought they would be like, all right, let's give this kid $45. Don't they jump in by making you do cocaine? I don't know how that works. They had a dark board. Don't either. Point is, uh mom drives me by, I run in. Uh and I got dressed up because I was gonna go go to the restaurant to pick up my check. And um and I was like, Thanks and I come out to the car, mom goes, everything go okay? And I was like, Um, yeah 'cause this is how I talk.

And I was like, um, it's for less money than I thought And like my mom looked at it and she immediately became furious and she said, because she knew how many hours I'd worked, and she said, G get back in there. And tell them tell them this is wrong, it's for the wrong amount. Because you know, people for years people have been uh telling me things that I should be doing. And then I gotta do it. So I had to go in and go, huh, my mom says this isn't enough money or whatever. And the the the the couple sitting there, maybe Joanna Guinness, and um the man says, um, oh, we don't have to pay minimum wage. We're British. You know what I said? I said, okay, sorry. I left. So that was that place. That seemed like kind of a jam up.

A lot of cocaine at these other places. Oh, the telemarketing place. That we shouldn't even get into that. That was really bad. But uh those are those are some of the big ones and then I tried to draw some faces. Uh I have to fix my uninterrupted power supply. Uh oh here's one I wrote down Uh this isn't worth even sharing. And then I'm gonna hit the bell. Is that okay? Will you laugh really hard? I um wanna talk about the telemarketing, but uh all right. Okay, we can talk about that after showgive us your fucking money. com You ready to laugh really hard when I'm done with this and act like you thought it was funny? I need I need I need you to la I need your I need your consent. I'm ready for yes, enthusi I I am giving my enthusiastic consent.

Wind chimes. Wind chimes are like poems and farts. Everyone loves their own and hates everyone else's. Still not quite where I was hoping it would go. I thought that was pretty funny. Laugh harder. Laugh, you're losing me. You're losing me. We don't have to pay minimum wage, we're English. Uh and then I can't. It's not the last thing I expected, but I mean that's the one. No, it's never the last thing I expected. No, no, no, no, no. Checked in one of my plants, uh the world of power. Wait, did they say it w with an accent? What did you know they were British? Oh, like did I check? No. Well Well the food was the food was really bad, so I think it was probably uh had to be English. Man. Right in the rain, you are Tonya, Tony about time, Bobby.

You're going out to bring in more dishes for you to do, going more stuff. Boy, the stem's in the kitchen again. Oh my raw transcript