380. The Nicest Screwdriver in the World

This is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Alex Cox and Merlin Mann. This week's challenge make a puzzle. Mm-hmm. Good after morning, Merlin Man. Hi, Alex. I need you to just plug oh it's not a bit. I need you to just plug your ears for a second. Oh What? What'd you do? Oh nothing. Nothing at all. How are you? Oh god damn it. I fuck off. It's not funny. No, I keep a can standing by now just so I can make fun of you. You want to make you want you're the one who wants to make it a bit, so I'm gonna try and make it a bit that's it amusing to people. Oh good. There's no absolutely no need for you to do that on air. We can start again. Three. No. No, it's just critical that I'll probably end up editing this one anyway.

So the thing is the You know it's uh It's like they say when somebody's got the Alzheimer's, you say, you know, there's good days and bad days. That's you. You're like that. You're good days and bad days. Yes. But I'm hoping to put off the the Alzheimer's bit for at least another what 34. I I know. I know. I put stuff on my table. I got nowhere to put anything. It's very trying. You have you have things in the dark I can't believe you looked at the document. You never look at the document. I do. Well, I've got fewer things on the table. Um They're all on my table then. No. Do you still need this? I okay, drop by let's mmm Doesn't it okay, doesn't it Dropbox is so bad. I I just want What? Dropbox is drop I am I am what does it have to do with what's happening?

Dropbox is bad. No, this is this is part of my bit. I just need to complain for a second and say Hey, anyone, breaking the fourth wall. I know that a Synology is probably the answer, but I I don't want that answer. I just need the fastest way to get files to someone. Just it's a lowest. Yeah I know, but I can't Yeah. All right, uh back to the faster internet. Why don't you just Why me you just move on to the money? If you're so sad about living in the I I mentioned this to my family just last night, I think that's a good idea. the whole like, you know, m because they don't know what I think about anything. Well, they know what I think about things. They don't follow what I do in any kind of a cohesive way.

Or as you say, coherent. Um, the uh uh the bit, which is not a bit, oh, if you are so sad living in a slum or a ghetto, why don't you move? Why don't you just move? I think, Merlin, we are victims of reverse racism. I don't even know what you're talking about, but I agree. Because no. You know what reverse racism is? It's racism with a different color. Yeah. Think about that. They control the weather. No. Okay, yes. No, no, no, I don't want to talk about politics. I just wanted I just wanted to make a joke to you because you're so online. I figured No, I'm not. I'd have I had no idea that there was even l controlling the weather discourse until this morning. Well, I don't think we really need to say who they are.

Uh uh exactly. Exactly. If you can control the banks and the media, the weather's nothing. I mean you can do that standing on your head. I mean as long as it's not Shabbat, but Showmashabas. Show my shabbats. I don't roll. I don't roll on Shabbat. Hello. Hello. Excuse me. I have a brief. Hello? What? Hello? Hello? Hello? Why don't I just get faster internet? Man. Uh I ha because I do wonder that. I do wonder why you don't just get faster internet. Uh The I don't know if it's a bit anymore. No, I mean like do do you go and get the internet on your own or is that something Dougie provides? He doesn't want to be using different internet, is that it? No, we do have different internet. And they don't offer a higher speed than what you have.

Nope. In fact, we have a new neighbor who just simply could not believe. that this is how it was and uh the f the four gays that are already live. You've got Coaxial Cable and Xfinity They should it seems like there must be a faster connection. I I'm pretty sure there there b is, but I It it's literally like I I wish that I could control the weather, but you know, I'm of a Catholic persuasion. I think that's one of the problems. Yeah, I I don't know. You'd be more efficient about your doom scrolling if you have faster internet. Oh my goodness gracious. That would be a fun challenge. You seeing. Just you you getting hooked up into my own. I don't need to see it. I see the results. You uh you getting just full access to my uh tail scale which i couldn't figure out how to set up but give me a password i'll fix it uh the oh yeah um Mmm, the thing is, I bet I I bet you would do that.

I think there are conditions in which Actually, it's one of the more idiot-proof things out there. Go on. No, I mean just compared to stuff like even setting up an hero, like, which is famously comically easy to set up. You still get weird stuff like double NAT and loop back stuff and where you've got to do like proxies so that your own stuff has access to your own stuff. Like You know, all of that stuff can be really, really complicated. And I feel like at least that's no, I wasn't making fun of you. Have you had you were playing with Tail Scale and it wasn't working? But I was playing with Tailscale in tandem with trying to set up my Synology as like a real Synology instead of just a big old backup uh and just a time machine.

And I think that had more to do with it. I mean Synologies work as a big hard drive, but they work even better or well not even better, but they work it can also be like a really smart big hard drive. That's, you know, kind of the arts. They're apps that, you know, make it so good, I think. I I'll put my um Jean Valjean oh not Jean Valjean. Who's the who's the sp super socialist in that's a great superhero from Le Miz. Um the the one who dies. I'm gonna w wear his flag for a moment. Oh, today? Yes. Eddie Redmane? Yeah, Eddie Redmane's boyfriend that gets left behind and dies. Yes, thank you. He has the cool jacket. He's got that cool Adamant jacket and he uh and he he sings my favorite my my favorite part of One Day More.

Well, I like all the parts of One Day More, but like when he first when he first comes comes blazing in in his cool jacket, oh man. Because he's usually hotter than the guy in the movie. The guy, the guy in the stage productions is usually a dish. True. Oh wow. I know They hired rap boys for that movie. So what is called? No, I disagree. No. I think they are all You don't think their Andrew Ross is a rat boy? I no, they are mmm, you know? I take it back. I think us millennials might be just kind of attracted to no no no. It was uh the opposite. I think we are you know They are not victims of reverse rationality. I'm sorry. I'm referring to something that my kid talks about all the time. W not all the time.

Has talked about in the past. that I thought was just his own like delusions about the world, but I think it's kind of a thing because I've seen articles about it now. And what I'm talking about online. Mm-hmm. Okay, okay. Tell me about the rat boys. I thought that a rat boy was Did you want to talk about Dropbox? I wanted to talk about this is all coming. Listen, I'm like Trump. I I swerve and I get it all back together. It's called the Weave. Because And you also suffer from something called tangentiality. I I I should that's how you made a whole tag for this in reader. I made a whole tag called uh Trump it's well, it's not very clever, but it's called Trump Crazy. And I've tagged all those articles so that I can share them with people because I'm very interested in the discourse.

That now that Peter Peter Baker has personally moved the Overton window. Thank you for your service, Peter Baker. Yeah, now that now that we're we're allowed to talk about it, you know. Um I I I I d I don't I really don't know what you're talking about because I do know I did watch internet but I I did watch the Trump rally and Which one? What a fun time. Oh yeah. Oh that was I thought that was we were texting during that. I think that as Trump rallies go, that was a great one. It was. He had like the he had the HIPAA drive. What are you talking about? Yeah. Did you personally watch the two most recent rallies before that? Because this guy's not okay. And not in the old way. In a new way, he is super not okay.

Yeah. The th it's I I don't know if this was a Peter Baker Peter Baker is the one. So basically this goes back to well, it goes back to 2015 of this whole like wait, is this guy what is this is this a bit? Is like is is he really okay? Does is and this like, oh no, that's part of his appeal. is that he's discursive, you know, and things like that. But but I mean, you know, and I I tend to be pretty resistant unless my confirmation bias overwhelms it. I tend to be resistant about this whole like You know, a psychiatrist says Trump is a narcissist or like George Conway has a funny pack about this. And it's like I I'm not a huge fan of that stuff. But, you know, I do have my own confirmation bias.

And I've noticed all the stuff these guys are talking about, the repetition. The the mangling the mangling of words is one of the things most people are like, yeah, well everybody does that, especially as you get older. That's not that weird. But the repetition, I don't think he realizes, I don't think it's messaging. And I think it's a kind of re like I said, it's like he's memorized a Markov chain. Whether whether he likes it or not, he has to always say this thing after that. And isn't it nice to have a president who doesn't need a teleprompter? Yeah, the teleprompter went out last week. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, as oh God. Did you enjoy that? Did you enjoy seeing Elon Musk? I did. I enjoyed his jumps.

He's dark longer. He's d he's dark maga. I don't I don't see maga. No. I I also watched a bit of his interview with Tucker Carlson and I I haven't seen many people who are in a K-hole, as they say, who is j who are just like so on ketamine that they uh Are you talking about Elon Musk who's interviewed by Tucker Carlson? Okay. Yes, and it was Like if he was a a different person, if it was ten years ago, I would have felt really bad for the guy. Like he was very high and kept talking about how no one's trying to assassinate Kamala. It's deep and true though. Nobody's trying to kill Joe Biden. It's pointless. Totally. Is it me or has he gotten a little has he gotten a little bit mumbly? Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Very no, I mean look look, don't don't agree with me reflexively. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes, yes. Okay. And then he la he giggles at his own joke, which is weird. Usually because like he really wants people to think he's funny. That's clearly one of his hang-ups is that he wants everybody to think he's funny. And and not just funny, he wants people to think he's clever. And uh it it when he's one, but like is that do you know much about ketamine? Like can you are you able to actually say, okay, well, in that case, please diagnose from a distance. Tell me what I need to know. about your problematic boyfriend, they friend, and uh and Katim. Max, it's been a decade since uh uh 2014 is the last Last time I made that joke with Savannah Million on Roboism before it it was even on relay.

You're gonna make me look things up. I know, I it'll be in the show notes though. Um I talked very It was incredibly embarrassing. I everyone should indeed make fun of me for this, for admiring. John Rodderick used to I didn't know who he was talking about. He kept talking about Elon Musk, Elon Musk, and never did not know. who he was talking about at the time. Yep. But that's just when he was the the Wunderkind who had like come up with Tesla. You know? Yeah, and it wasn't it was like uh people like, oh yeah he didn't even found Tesla. Correct. He didn't But he kinda I I think it's lame to to diminish what his companies have done. You know, SpaceX is fucking amazing. It's I I don't want to say it's dangerous, but it is a bit like saying, ah, Trump's just this big old crazy goofball.

Because it's like this man who is very much on drugs has so much power and even if he like even if he were to I just keel over and be oh it would be a week on weekend at Elon and there's so many people who could literally use him as a a puppet and just kinda be like and run wild with the insanity that is the almost exact opposite of a decade ago. Like, I don't know, I don't like politics pronouncing, oh, Trump save America. Oh, I'm in trouble. It's very weird. The m mumbliness that you're talking about exactly what I have seen with people who are both uh And he's but he's like he's such a such a like fake edge lord. It's so sad. It's really sad. I guess it's sad. It's weird. I should say it's sad that uh the admiration for him is still off the wall w with young men who I would like in a previous life or no, like just And who, if I were yeah, had grown up at the same time, like would have been friends with, have the same like h hobbies, and instead now they are edge lording.

and looking at Bitcoin and worrying that they're going to be trans. It's r that is what bums me out. Not being sad that a billionaire has access to too much drugs. I can't I can't I can't quote this exactly, but there was a pretty very interesting guest on uh Tim Miller's Bo Work podcast the other day. Um and you know, like a lot of like like some people, people are becoming more okay with talking about like We we're we're we've it feels like I don't know how you say anything about this guy anymore because people have such strong opinions. based on however long ago that you know get stronger but may not evolve very much. But maybe it really is time for us to s to stop using fascism as a metaphor and start talking more about like real really like concrete examples of of similar things to especially Italian fascism.

And um You know, and and I think one I recently heard someone say something like, Well, yeah, I I I don't with with Trump, like, I don't know if he even has it in him to like do what's involved to create a camp. But but there's certainly the the the the the soul is willing. But what he was saying was uh particularly with looking at uh the vice presidential candidate, their vice vice presidential candidate, is that he is very similar to a s a certain kind of well, I'm not throwing fascist around as an insult. I'm saying it as like a This is what happened in Italy in the thirties, is weak men who were mainly there to tell you how everything was bad, the government can do nothing, and you are doomed unless you seek the right strongman.

And if you you know from a certain point of view, that is kind of a lot of what J. D. Vance does. Is like it's not even that he doesn't seem to have much of a very like uh affirmative idea for how to improve things. So much as, again, part of this administr this, you know, putative administration is I is making it clear to people that you have you have enemies in the world and we are the people who will smite those enemies. Yeah, we'll protect you from those enemies, but more more saliently, we'll smite those enemies. Like, but it it but the key part, the part that made my made me kind of go, hmm, was like, yeah, and it's this weird, it's a weirdly weak It has this this this this super masculine positioning and like you know the guy that wears all the uh face makeup is out there like talking about trans.

But like that's fine, whatever. You you shouldn't make up shame somebody. But But I thought that really got me thinking about like a JD Vance in particular because he is emblematic of a certain kind of like freshly scrubbed fascism. that you can put in front of the cameras and because of the way media works and because of the way opinions work, like no amount of fact checking at that debate. could have stopped what was happening, really. You know, I mean, I don't know. I don't want to get wound up in the politics part of that, but but just to say that like start looking for that. Start looking for a thing where somebody's just telling you Constantly telling you how how terrible and apocalyptic everything is, and yet it can get worse.

Here's all the people you should be blaming for this. And I don't really have, I don't have an affirmative vision for improving your life, but I do have a lot of assurances about smiting your enemies. Yeah, I said it l last week, but the debate just kinda it kinda freaked it freaked me out because it just shows the I I wouldn't believe that guy's normal. Yeah. If I didn't know anything else and saw that, I would think he's seems like a smart, reasonable guy. And I think he is a smart guy. But he's very smart and I don't think folks wanna think about that because it's it makes it even scarier. Like he doesn't know how to do his makeup, but he knows what he's doing. We should not talk about this too long.

But this gets into the whole everything is everything problem. Which is like I understand, for example, I understand that if there's somebody who, like, let's just say there's some kind of a public figure who whether or not they are according to the DSM, a narcissist and compulsive liar, you you should know by this point that this person w will say things that are not true that they know are not true. Which is my definition of a lie. To me, that's different from misspeaking. That's different from, you know, evasion even. To me, lying is saying something you know is untrue to someone else and expecting them to believe two things. Which is that it is true and that you believe it's true. That's what makes it a lie.

That's what makes it so much more pernicious than all of those other kinds of things is like you have very purposefully says something you know is not true and you want that person to believe it's like a truth that you believe. And that's that's gross. But but throwing out the baby with the bath. I mean like the problem is though the the everything is everything problem. the way it affects that here is what's an example like if it you know and Donald Trump as rallies go had a good rally that day Yes. Now if I say that, don't I sound like counter-revolutionary? Don't I sound simple? Don't I sound and it's like, well no, the thing is that In terms of of stupid, that rally was a six, but boy, you if you think that's bad, watch the other ones, which are often in a seven, an eight, or a nine.

See, I I think that you uh uh underestimated. We don't have to agree a lot. Okay, so another thing, like so but like it would be untruthful for me to say as somebody who studies this stuff, that was a good rally for him. If I said, oh yo, it's another Trump bad Trump, well it is, but like I can avoid the false equivalency of saying, well, why doesn't Well why doesn't oh uh we all wanted we all want Kamala to do more interviews because that's so important. And now she's doing more interviews. Yeah, but they aren't tough enough interviews. Okay. And then like when she does do an interview of any kind, you pick apart the things she said that you don't like. That's fine. Now, here's where the false equivalency does come in.

When's the how many times last week did Trump sit down? with somebody very provocative. Well, no, he's more a guy who cancels interviews because he knows there's gonna be a fact check. He's the pussy, not her. Mm-hmm And I don't know, but it bothers me when we get so wound up in our emotions and our ideology about something that then we start becoming somebody who has to like reject. things. JD Vance did very well in that debate. It's unquestionable. And from the standpoint of no matter how you want to look at it, in as a normal person, And I know you're everybody listen, you're really clever. And you could go, well, he may have succeeded at lying well, but he did Yeah, but you're okay, good.

So it sounds like you're not gonna vote for them. Thank you. Next person. For somebody who didn't know as much and they saw that, he did very, very well. And Tim Waltz didn't. It's not Tim Waltz's best place for that. That doesn't mean that I like JD Vance more. It doesn't mean I think JD Vance's team is gonna win. It doesn't mean I think he's an honest or or decent gentleman. It doesn't mean any of those things, but everything is not everything. These theoretical people that interact with you and actually think that you are saying these things? Because you don't it I I I'm very confused. About what, Alex? About why I think you get emotional over well, because I I uh How uh can I read emotions?

I am uh not an empath as d as the opposite narcissists say. But I You're empathetic, but you're empathetic to the emotions of people who aren't there. And that's what makes you special. No, but that's the thing is are you talking about real people who actually think, oh, Merlin Mann is saying uh that's I don't think it's about me at all. Yeah. I would prefer not to make it about me. What I can say is, I mean, I have people in my family. I have people that I encounter in the world, and yes, there are many more than that that I do see on TV. And like I see somebody who bought a Let's Go Brandon shirt. Like they they they set aside a little bit of money and they bought a Let's Go Brandon shirt Which isn't wasn't even that funny at the time.

It's an old dip, but and it's maybe it's got stars and stripes on it and stuff like that. And then they wear that and they go, they go to the event and and they watch the celebration of the ghost coat. And all those kinds of things. And there's all of that stuff. And it's like, but like when you have when people interview those folks, just talk to them like in like a normal way, not in like necessarily even a confrontational way. Um, people believe a lot of pretty wild stuff. I'm a man without a flag, I'm a man without a country. Cause it's not that I even more than anything, it's not so much that I want one side to quote win. It's that I'm frustrated. w with the way that we talk about these things and like almost everything we talk about, I'm frustrated by the lack of subtlety.

and the number of inferences people make based on based on somebody going, well, I'm not sure that's exactly right. If you say, well, I'm not sure that's exactly right, or like, I think there's another way to look at this, or, you know, whatever. Uh nobody likes that guy. No. I mean, no one likes that superstar who uh goes and says I'm not going to endorse uh Kamala Harris and then the internet a attacks them. So uh I I uh like this isn't a new thing and I don't know if it's going to change for a while because sure that's how shows like uh Japo and a a lot of even bigger like uh gosh, what's it called? The majority report and all of the less than a lot of Pod Save America or something? No, I'm not sure.

Dark dirtbag left kind of things. Yeah, but Pod Save America is the opposite of that. They are all Tell me what the that is. um opposite cynical edge l uh like leftist edgelord and they're not d doomer build or whatever. Uh well Yeah, you're so offline. No, the way that you interact okay, th there are people who say those words out loud. Why does this have to be about me, Alex? Can't this be about something like that? Yeah, but you're Yes, but you say that you interact with these people in real life where as the people who I like who I tend to interact with are uh well either they're my peers and say things like like doomer pilled or uh skibbity um brain rotted the uh I I I I it freaks me out, but I think a lot of Trump voters aren't as or aren't that s not aren't that stupid.

I I don't know. I'm saying that they recognize the nuance of it and are just as frustrated by the broad strokes of even a media that i even if they're it's not on their s side, it's like, Well, that's a really boring narrative. Like well, that's a dumb narrative to say. Like they're watching they are on the side of Fox News and they're watching that being like, No, not really. What? What? And like uh talking to oh um I hung out with my grandpa the other day who I I keep expecting his brain to kind of trump, y you know, because he is he's around Trump's age. But um To become more ardently sort of uh n what's the word I'm looking for nativist to become more Trumpy? Uh to to I should have to say more by Danny, just kind of to get an elderly brain soup, but didn't Yeah.

I was like, I don't want to say it in a mean way, but then I said it in a worse way. Yeah. He got brain pilled. Yeah, he got John Circus used the word compute as a noun. Uh oh. Ugh. And I'm like, yeah. That's interesting. No, I understand. Lots of people say that, but it's a really dumb thing to say. Yeah. Because you know with the Apple Vision Pro you keep the compute on the outside. You you could say the computer, but call it the computer. Yeah, very, very big. Your grandpa. Because of uh in the doom and gloom and the control over like like the Was your grandpa veteran, out of curiosity? Not that one, no. He uh was I always wonder about people who are on the one hand you like understand people who are older veterans who support him, but then on the other hand you're like, hmm.

But the really older veterans, like, you know, say like wow, he says a lot of stuff about the US that if you told me that in nineteen forty-three. I'd be pretty bummed to know the president was saying that about people. Yep, yep. I mean I actually like it this country and I kind of, you know, want it to to be good and I don't think this guy is I I don't think that lady is, but uh I don't think he's necessarily gonna do anything great. And of course in the background is y uh you know, also when you say a lot of really bad things about his grandkids, it doesn't make him happy. But then he saw the Chicago area still? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and a barn, but Um the y yeah i and he watched writing that down that's pretty funny.

Pick more Yeah I think it's a little mm-hmm. Little But the I'm trying to get a little bell. I can't get a subtle bell. Oh, okay. There we go. So you're talking about seeing, but then he's like, oh, but man, if I could vote for that JD Vance, and I was like, oh boy, oh boy. Yeah, I I yeah, I mean it's Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's complicated stuff. Um, are your other grandparents in Fort Myers? Do I remember? They were able to come home. Yeah, they were they're to Naples, Florida, back to Chicago. So Oh, they got out. Okay, good, good. Yeah. I think that area is gonna Get hit pretty hard. Oh yeah. It's it got this this is boring, but yeah, they're uh there they're you know the condo beach My mom's like that poor.

She lives in a tall building that's fairly near water, but she's poor. That's that's uh uh sh sh The beach in Pesco County is not something that you cancel stuff to visit. Is it uh is it one of the rocky ones? We left it, it belongs to the crabs now. Oh, ooh. That would be interesting. It's not rocky, it's just not it's not crabby nice. Yeah. No crabs. Is that I I unfortunately, you know, again, not of the persuasion to control the weather. Is is she able to leave or is that an area I haven't seen the map. Thank you for asking. I am im pr not probably I am so relieved. 'Cause she This is so complicated. Yeah, she got out. She went to Daily City, which is about forty miles east of where she is.

So it's inland, you know, but There's th I really like the weather guy that's on CNN a lot and because he keeps he keeps phrasing in this one way. And I've I go around I was going around with somebody about this like fucking this morning. Um but like The guy, they're like, I you know, when they say things like, as the hurricane approaches, you know, landfall, because we love jargon, as it's about to hit the ground where people live, uh, it's gonna get uh the wind speeds will get lower, but the way they they keep saying is it's going to get bigger. And I wish they wouldn't say that. I wish I think a better, it's almost like why why we say pin number because that's what people expect to hear. Because if we just say pin, people won't know it's a pin number.

And that bothers people, but it's a question of clarity that we all face as writers is when you need to put something in a way that it will be clearer than more clear than correct, right? I wish instead of saying the hurricane's going to get bigger, the phrase I'm not a meteorologist, but the phrase I would use is the hurricane's going to get a lot wider. Like there's nothing abs I'm sorry, I can't go I'm I'm having a little bit of situational depression right now. I'm struggling a little bit. I've been having a a tough last last few days. Um, but you know, it's It um it the eye of this thing is like perfectly round. There's no wind shear to disrupt it. The Atlantic the heated sort of Atlantic Ocean water that's in the Gulf has just been feeding it.

And like it's it's just really it's like there's gonna be, you know, at the very least, there's two things that are just not even questionable. One is there's gonna be so much power out. across Florida. The other one, and this is something that's being heavily covered in a understandably sensational way, um, on cable news or wherever, like they just had Helene. in a lot of these areas. So like for example, yesterday CNN was at Treasure Island, which is a place like I used to go to all the time when I was in military school. It's very near where I went to military school in St. Pete. Um, Treasure, any of those kind of barrier islands, Sanibel Island, you know, all these Longboat Key, like near Sarasota, all these kinds of places out there, it's like, well, before we even get to the like At least eight to ten foot storm surge they're gonna get.

Like two things are gonna happen. A lot of power out across Florida. And the other one is this is such a bummer. There's so much trash. were people who got flooded or whatever. Like there's just, I don't know if you've seen this on the news, but there's just piles, there's six to twenty foot piles of trash all over. The Tampa Bay area. 3. 3 million people live in the Tampa Bay area now. And the thing is, even if just a regular old boring 75 mile per hour wind hurricane hits that area, think about what happens to a 20 foot pile of garbage. Oh, and also did I mention that Tampa, the city, is currently under huge amounts of construction and it's chock a block with construction cranes they didn't have time to take down.

So think about what's in that pile of garbage. It's bad enough to get houses out there. Oh, this is also before we get to the thirty-six distinct fires that have been caused by EVs. Oh, I did not know this. I learned I learned two I learned less than two weeks ago. that when salt water touches a lithium ion battery or whatever it is, lithium battery in a EV, it will cause a catastrophic fire. I did not know that. What? Yep. And so you got a pile of stuff out in front of your place. You took out your old couch. Oh, you're good insurance, blah. You got you that refrigerator from the garage you'd been meaning to replace anyway. And all that stuff out on the curb and they were actively working on picking all that stuff up in Tampa, Tampa area.

Um but guess what? I so just think for a minute about 75 mile per hour winds hitting a town full of piles of garbage. At the very, very, very least, that's going to make those piles into just a whole bunch of garbage in lots of places. But what happens when it picks up that refrigerator? Or it it picks up that sheet metal. Or God forbid it knocks over that crane. And it's like, I don't know, I might be c catastrophizing this, but I don't think you are. I'm it's it's like did you ever see that movie The Perfect Storm, a George Clooney movie? You remember that? Yes. Oh God. And like we've used that we've used that term a lot, but I think that was based on a real life event where there was a Climb uh a weather event, I guess a hurricane, but there were three different highly unlikely.

I guess I'm I'm using this as a metaphor. Right. But like it's also kind of not a metaphor. There were different three three different sets of conditions, each of which were fairly unlikely or less more benign on their own, but when you combine those three things, that's how you get, you know, in that case they called it the perfect storm because it was these It was like a 10x improbability of this thing happening because three different unlikely things happened at once, right? And that's kind of what we're going to be looking at here. There's the wind, there's the storm surge, there's the flooding, there's the foot of rain, and then there's all the ways that those look at Ash, poor fucking Asheville, that beautiful city.

Look at what's happening there. And that's in western North Carolina. Anyways, I just, you know, I see that I headed straight for a place where I spent four years of my life. I'm being selfish. I'm being very selfish about this and making it about me. But like I said to somebody last night, I have a very strong emotional attachment to a great deal. Dozens of things as South as Boca Grand. And as north we see that's how we say it there. Boga Grande. As south as Boga Grande, as north as WikiWachi, and points in between. Like I have so much attachment to so many places there. And like it's just I'm having a time with it, honestly. Oh, I'm sorry that Oh no no no no, I'm fine. I'll be fine. I'm sorry as it's not.

No, but no, it's just it's frustrating because like it's it's It's just every it's there's so many different ways to be frustrated about it. You know, and it's um it's it's just a bummer. And like I was I I think I'm about to argue with somebody about this on Mastodon. I described it as being similar to the coastline of Scotland problem. And he disagrees, but that's okay. Coastline of Scotland problem is that like you try to like you imagine trying to measure the co coastline of any place, but let's say for example Scotland, and you have a ruler that's one mile long. So if you've ever tried to measure something irregular with a ruler, it's a fractal problem, basically, which is that the bit the more precise your measuring device is, the longer the coastline of Scotland gets.

And if you had a theoretically you know, infinitely small amount of measurement that you could do, you could make a theoretically infinite island if you think about how that works. And you could do this yourself, like draw a square or draw better draw a triangle or whatever. And then try to figure out what the area of that is using different sizes of measuring device. I was trying to use that as a metaphor to say that as somebody from Ohio, where a tornado will customarily raise one side of the street and completely pass the other side. I I've seen it where one house goes out, because that little tiny pointy tail of the tornado, that's all it needs to hit it. It doesn't go in rows and grids. That's not how weather do.

Now on top of all of that, and the reason I'm saying it's like that Coastline Scotland problem is what what the fuck is a weather prediction at this point? What damage will be done? The best you get usually is somebody saying, well, people in low-lying areas, and which of course means we're poor people live. Why why is it why why do mobile homes always blow away? I'll tell you what, Einstein, there's a reason. A, poor people buy mobile homes. Mobile homes are not, don't do in the best of mobile home in the fanciest neighborhood. would not do as well as the other houses because let's get to the ultimate reason why. The land on which mobile homes are built is the shittiest and cheapest land in town.

Which also happens to be the places that things like tornadoes will, left to their own devices, like go through, right? So I I just look at this and I go like You know, think about the way this storm is going to affect think about the three the the three little pigs and their three different houses. Like A hurricane's gonna affect the three little pigs very differently. So it's difficult to say they might all get blown away. But there's also a chance that the stone house will or the brick house will be more recoverable than the straw house. And if those houses are right next to each other, no matter how good that quote unquote weather prediction is, See also Ohio's tornadoes. Like it's just, it's it's frustrating to me the lack of subtlety even in that.

And then Ron DeSanders is out there this morning saying, well, if you he did this during Helene, he's just doing it now. He's saying, you still have time to get out. Get out. Well, you know what? If you live on Sanibel, no, that's not true. Um every pretty much every bridge is closed. Gas is out in a lot of places. Like there's just well, okay. Like, and then we'll listen to what your local officials say. But yeah, but the man with the white shrimping boots just told me I still have time, so I don't know. And then on top of it all, the other thing I was saying this morning is like whenever you hear about people who, quote, won't evacuate, ask yourself if there's any chance that that's because they don't have the resources.

I get so uncomfortable about people yelling about these dummies who want to evacuate. But like it's you know, you're you might Like they're digging in and they seem resistant because who wants to tell a TV reporter, I don't have money for a hotel room? Yes. And my mom's with me, she's on a CPAP machine and her cat is here. So we can't just roll into the high school and happily like Lay on a cot. All of this stuff is so complicated. And when you try to problematize this a little bit and bring up to people, hey, well, I'm not sure that's exactly right, it sounds like you're being counter-revolutionary. Get a different brain. That's me. I need a different brain. Makes me sad. Yeah. I when I Ian uh came through, that was the hurricane in twenty twenty two.

It wasn't as i extreme enough. That was one of the ones that got big fast, right? Yes. Wasn't it one of the ones where the millibars dropped and it got big like crazy fast? Yeah. And and my p my even my uh grandparents couldn't w when I say even even my grandparents didn't feel like bullsh Yeah. Like they they have the means to get to an air airport and but at at this point like my grandpa was in a wheelchair and uh It was like, okay, we're just we're nine stories up. Um I guess this is better than sitting at the airport. But then there are um But that's also that's another thing you're making two I'm sorry, interrupting. But you're making two perfect examples of at least what I'm struggling to say.

On the one side, I guess we can't get too into this, but please keep in mind that there are people in wheelchairs. There are people with cats. You can't do that. Oh yeah, that's that's gonna get to that. But like yes, absolutely correct. But all these things over there, but like this is such a multivariate complex problem. And I think people can be as wrong as they are to us. I think they Should be forgiven for making this weird error of wanting to stay at their house? What if they've been convinced that if they leave their house, blacks will break in? That might that might that might factor into it. Like they don't want to get looted. They keep hearing about all these problems. And I'm not trying to make this political in that particular way, but I think you're making that point very well.

Which is like, you know, from a distance, you become everybody becomes a why don't you just guy. I I don't know if you're not dan dancing around it, but uh but I um immediately always think of the people who are just too mentally ill to uh like they're not racist. They're not they're just like, no, this this is where my cat is, and also like this is Absolutely. You ever met a couple that's unhappy? Probably not. But sometimes in America there are couples who are not happy and are not getting along. And maybe Neither of them quite realize it yet, but they're about a month and a half away from deciding to get divorced. Hey everybody, let's pack up your three kids and move into a gym. Yeah, but we've worked out this separate piece where like I mostly sleep in the den and she does this, you know what I'm saying?

Like it life is so goddamn complex and the one thing that almost that a lot of people have everybody wants and I think everybody holds dear is whatever they consider their home. And I I I kinda get that You know, I I don't know. It's just uh I I need to I need to grow up. I need I need to like figure it out and grow up. This is no way to live. To be constantly frustrated with the lack of subtlety in the world is like it's it's no way to live. I'm such a I'm such a fancy lad. I'm such a little little princeling. The uh to be super uh socialist lame lame is guy again, I think Ex it's a different there's a difference between accepting that there's n no very little subtlety and uh just acknowledging and sort of it's it's almost like a a oh god it's a Buddhist gif just living in the uh lack of subtlety and always uh being that guy where I'm like, well that could be this could be the worst person, uh the the worst day of someone's life.

People don't have f People don't have time or cycles for that. Normal people do not have cycles for that. I don't think I don't think it's bad. I'm saying I think I'm the weirdo. I really do. And I really don't want to make it about me. We should talk about something else. The kind of jacket that we're talking about, I'm trying to look up the pronunciation of this. It looks like it's it's called a husser jacket. Uh, and that's the Adam in the Ants jacket that Angel Ross wears that has those cool. Like frog style closures. Would you call those f was that a frog? What are those called? Is that a frog? Frog, you know, like a frog closure. Look up look up a frog closure. Google frog, frog. No, a frog is like when you've got a loop.

And then you've got like an elongated kind of like wooden thingy that you like loop through there. You're a fancy lad for a different reason. I'm looking this up. Yeah, black. Yeah, where are the names of clothes? I don't okay. N d B notes, this is not a thing that most people would uh no, no, there's no way someone's like, yeah, you know, a frog closure. God, this is the fanciest I b okay. Yes. Everyone knows what a frog closure is. This Hussar Hussler jacket. Oh, there's yeah, Jimi Hendrix used to wear one of those. I always think of that amp, but Angela Ross really rocks it. Angel uh Husser Dolman jackets uniforms. Oh oh they're oh this is like a Michael Jackson uh there's a lot of rock stars.

Yeah yeah I mean like this it's kind of similar to It reminds I am not looking at it right now, but it kind of reminds me back in the ear in the not early, early, but like in the early ish days of Got It by Voices, Bob Pollward would wear this like band director kind of like jacket that was really cool. The kind of like you'd wear like in a marching band. Yeah, but if I saw someone wearing this on the street, I'd think that guy has going on. I'd be like that guy has something going on. What's what what's your thought? Uh my thought is that that guy has something going on. Not necessarily good, not necessarily bad. There's just something about I j I don't see hussies, my goodness. Sorry. Let's see, I looked up Husser Jacket.

No, that's not right. Let's try band leader. The leader of the panestans is a growing old Yeah, I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure he used to like a military jacket. Maybe military jacket. How you doing, you good? I'm I am well, yes. Do you uh think it would not help, but uh help distract from the frustration and situational depression if you told me about your LL what? Why is that? No, you're you're no no I I really enjoy your attempts at segues. I pfft they're barely attempting to scoots. No, the the the there there'll be a little bell it might I'm very reluctant to I wan I I almost okay. I I I I was uh I wasn't gonna share this because it's very difficult for me to share this with you without being a little bit of an asshole about uh what someone does for a living.

And I I don't want to do that. I've dragged this kind of work before and I don't I really don't want to be a dick about it. But I didn't have time to go up, go out and make a an example of this technology that I'm applying here. I didn't have time to go out and do a redacted version of it, but do you want to hear this this thing? I present this I present this as what I consider an interesting combination of different things involving LLMs and whatnot. And to me, like, and I'm not doing this. I don't mean I don't want to constantly be that guy who's like, see, see, I swear it's really good. There's a website I look at, usually even a couple three times a day. I don't know why, but I look at it and sometimes it's frustrating, sometimes it's annoying, but I do find it a useful website to look at But like a lot of websites that are out there, um, they interleave posts about computers written by people with posts about deals.

Oh, yep, go on. For example, on like on some sites, I'm gonna have to eventually say this, so I gotta get over it. On like 9 to 5 Mac, for example, you'll see a lot of sponsored posts. And it's like, you know, they'll say, oh, this is a sponsored post. Like, get this VPN, it's really good, or, you know, blah, blah. Um I am not presenting this to drag this, drag anybody. I am not presenting this to say that this is I'm I've seen a technology, I'm I'm using a technology that was invented 15 years ago, and like I I couldn't figure it out on my own. I wanted to present this as what the new ideas about a model can mean. Forgetting what you want, avoiding the XY problem. I'm it's mainly a compliment to the new model that you can do things like this.

Can I should I just tell you what it is? Yes, yes. There's a guy on Mac Rumors. God love him. I I call I call I I call him the Deals Warlock. Is that right? Scarfield the Deals Warlock, isn't that? Yes. A fantasy cost. Because it's always telling you about deals. He'll tell you this is the third lowest price for these old AirPods. This is the third lowest price Amazon's ever have. And by the way, I don't know if you know Prime Day. Like there's all that stuff. And in this instance, it occurred to me like I don't want to see these posts. I want to keep looking at this site. But it bugs me. And like I I get frustrated and then I kind of don't want to look at the site because I just keep bracing for the moment where I scroll down to the deals warlock having a post.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. And like I used Firefox back in the day. I know about Grease Monkey. I know about lots of things. Oh, was Ardvark was another really good one? Um, you know, I know about things. There's there's ad blockers, right? Where you could say, like, oh, if it's on this list, block the ad. You can do stuff, there's all kinds of different ways. You can do all this different kinds of stuff. But it occurred to me like My first thing was I bet ChatGPT can help me hide posts from the deal war deals warlock. And I thought, but here's the thing, here's the XY problem. And we know what the XY problem is, yes? Let's this is a very important thought technology that John Sarkisa brought to me, mostly in a very mean way, but he was right.

Which is like the XY problem summarized, I think, is like instead of Instead of th asking for X, tell someone you want Y. So l a classic example would be like me calling up Comcast and yelling at them about the connection and telling them what the problem is and reminding them that I'm a seasoned technologist and therefore this is the problem I've decided I have. And they go, well no, actually we just need to cycle your router and it'll be fine. Like I didn't call them up and say my internet is working, not working, please fix it. Because I mean, I I mean put put another way, I have internet service and it's not working the way I wanted. Can it be fixed? Right. Like in a different time, the way I would have approached this, even as recently as a couple weeks ago, I would have been much more susceptible to the XY problem.

in trying to solve this with an LLM. And I know I'm I'm in the weeds about what this thing is. What I'm trying to make a case for is that this dingling new model that I really like. actually benefits from you doing less keyword stuffing, jamming stuff in. You know, I'm somebody who started playing with this stuff before I was playing with ChatGPT. I was playing with those image generator apps. And what I learned was like you do benefit from keyword stuffing. You benefit from putting a ton of stuff into the prompt where you just use the same way that you would do like keyword stuffing, we know what that means, right? like on a webpage. Where it like I it's like I would not have the confidence to just go in and say I mean like I start out with something like Norman Rockwell painting of Mike Pence sitting on a gravestone eating a crossword puzzle and crying.

Right. Now but the thing is to get to get what I wanted though, I learned you get more and more specific And you say like Norman Rockwell or you say hyper-realistic, you know, all the kinds of things that all those were like, you know, um uh anime style. Uh highly detailed, hyper-realistic, 4K, keyword, keyword, keyword. My favorite is 4K. Yep. I don't know why. I think that's one of those I think that's one of those like folk things. Like I'm I don't know if that really makes a difference, but but like everybody else, I mean I had picked up you know, the folk wisdom about how to get what you wanted. And unlike Google, like with Google, like you see how quickly how much you fuck yourself by putting too much information in there instead of just acting like a dummy.

If you don't get dummy and say, you know, what time is sunset? Like it'll figure it out or whatever. Like if you keyword stuff too much on your searches with Google, it tends to not be as effective. And what I'm saying is the new version of this model, and I'm not going to say the name. the thoughtful one. It has title. Has um I think has gotten better at this stuff. So what I'm saying is the XY problem There's a time where I would have said, okay, I would have thought about it a lot and thought about, okay, what I'm looking for is really something like a custom CSS, a user script like we used to have back in the day on Firefox. I still do a thing that runs user scripts. I forget what it's even called.

This is why my IMDB looks so different from other people's IMDbs, is because I have like a user script that basically re-CSS's the whole page. Um you know because it makes it useful. It makes it well the pictures are still too small, but but then you know what I did instead? Um I went into the thing. And I I don't know. I just I think this is so fucking neat. I said, I started off by saying, help me block certain kinds of content on this site. And I link to MacRumors. com. And then it goes dly ddly d. Here's ways you can do that. I said, yeah, stop right there. And then I said, now this is me a little bit XY, but I think this is a good addition. I said. I use Stop the Madness, technically Stop the Madness Pro, to block some web content.

It allows custom style elements and custom script elements. I want help blocking content based on the author deals warlock. Now, I had an educated guess that it would be able to do this because I had looked at the source code and they have a pretty extensive use of tags. including, you know, tags inside like author tags and really good metadata and stuff. But like at the even even just, you know, I guessed, look for posts where it links to the page for the deals warlock. I mean that's not that's in band, right? Like that's like right there. But instead of doing that, I just let it do its thing. And so I said, I used up the menus helped me with this. And it says, sure I can help you with that.

And you know what it did? It went in. I think I sent you this link, right? Yeah, yeah. It says you can first of all A, you can use custom CSS. And it gave me the chunk of custom CSS that I needed that I could paste into Stop the Madness or whatever you use that would then from then on not show. And what it did was it looked for article AH ref, and it's doing some pretty good like. Some smart CSS where it's looking, you know, it's using descendants to be able to say, like, you know, look for article that has the type Anchor, href, and then a link to the Deals Warlocks page. Um and then display Oh my god, stop! Oh no it's not stop did did she react to Deals Warlock? What the hell? Oh Mitchell's gonna kill me.

Such as strawberries or peaches. Strawberries or peaches? And so it gave me that CSS code, and then it gave me the JavaScript code. for that. How to hide articles by the deal of Swarlock. Document query selector all article for each function article. I couldn't do I couldn't come up with this in fucking fifty years. I'm 11 for the third time I'm reading a book about how to write Pearl. I'm 11 pages in. I'm already so bored and annoyed. I I just can't do this stuff anymore. So I went in to review to review. I went in. I told it what makes me sad. I told it what I think would make me happy. It gave it to me and I pasted it in. So just I'll pause here. I think that's kind of neat. That it was able I was able to tell it something that annoys me and say I want it fixed.

And then I just gave it a little bit more information about, you know, what I think I could do on my end to facilitate that, but it wrote all that code for me and I copied, I pasted, and it worked. I don't think it's neat. I find it thrilling. That genuinely makes me uh hop up and down and be like, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Like I I I I I re remember responding to you uh in I even I was I had my hands in I was washing dishes and uh talked into my phone to respond to you because I was so excited that this Oh really? Uh haven't wrapped my head around oh uh oh one because Still enamored with the voice. Yeah, because you like you like the discourse with other ones, the way they respond and stuff. I don't get that at all, but I I I'm interested in learning more about that.

It is, it responds to how you talk to it. And I keep telling it, hey, I'm having an awkward time talking to you, not just because I am an awkward stammerer in general and I trip over my words, but I'm used to And this is in voice mode, yes. Yeah. And I said I'm used to n like voice to text stuff and doing dictation and I need help reminding being reminded that you can actually became aware of a similar thing to my XY problem, which is like I want your help with this because I'm used to when I interact with a computer through voice, I've tended to do it in this way. Yeah. And it it'll say to me, you sound overly formal right now. Are you reading from something? And I'm like, pho-ho, okay, that's very exciting.

And so you don't want to screw up. You feel like a you feel like this goes all the way back to my first experiences with the Amazon product, which were pretty great. But like, you know, you feel dumb. You feel like you're the one who failed when it doesn't work. Yeah, which is the the the the biggest failure of uh not agents, but various just voice dinguses for all time since we've had them. It's been making you feel bad to use it, which I think is the one thing that Siri Siri won't ever get better until that problem goes away. But it can be so imperious sometimes. What do you mean by that? Oh no, I'm sorry. No, stop, Sarah, stop. I thought I'd turn on the the hay part for everything, but I guess I haven't.

I can wrap this pretty fast. So here's the here's the here's the another interesting part and a takeaway. The the two things I'm trying to get at here is the smaller thing is I these are tools. And when I say tool, yes, I know you know it's a tool. What I'm trying to say is that when you have a toolbox, you can use different tools for different things and then use them together Right. And on the one hand, I just want to say like I think it's the I did this the other day playing with the uh notebook LM thing as well, where like I made this goofy movie based on my old the movies I'd made for the show combined with the notebook LM part and iMovie. And like I'm not saying I'm clever, but what I'm saying is that's a toolbox.

I'm taking these different the same way that the guy, the very inspiring guy who does those Panavision trailers, same idea, which is like I'm using all these tools together and I think these are evolving to a point where it's okay to look at this as a tool. Gee, thanks, Genius. Okay, but here's the thing. If you buy the nicest plane, uh what's it what's the more interesting one? You buy the nicest screwdriver, you buy the nicest screwdriver in the world. Well, first of all, there's no such thing as the nicest screwdriver in the world, or it might be the most costly. But like, no, you actually need a whole bunch of different screwdrivers. Okay, what's the nicest Phillips head screwdriver? Okay, what size is the tip of that Phillips head screwdriver?

Cause there's if you get one that's too fine, you're gonna strip the shit out of stuff, out of your screwdriver in no time. If it's not fine enough, you're gonna strip the actual screw. Like you need different screwdrivers for different things if you care. What I'm saying here is like this is another tool in in the box. I would not use a screwdriver as a hammer because I have a hammer. Does that make me say I don't trust screwdrivers because they give fake results? Gets a little they get a little stabby. They do, they're so stabby. Making those very characteristic, you know, marks. So the one thing I just wanted to say was like I I just want to start thinking about and potentially socializing this idea of like, can you think of this, instead of thinking of as a way to cheat on a test or show how dumb LLMs are, can you think of this as what if this were a tool in your toolbox, what place would it have alongside other things?

Where you would get the part that you need out of that, but you wouldn't use it for everything. That was the one thing. And then I also want to just give a general shout out to Stop the Madness, because once I had that It's kind of a it's a pretty Byzantine app in a lot or extension in a lot of ways, but you know what else it has, dude? iCloud Sync So you know what that means? I did this. Your settings are automatically synced between all your devices if you choose to turn it on. You know what that means? This took like 10 minutes, five minutes, whatever, not very long. Pasted it in, saved it, and guess what? I pulled up my phone, which is a different device than what I wrote it on. To just state the obvious here.

I reloaded the page. No more deals, Warlock. How hold on. How did that- A toolbox? A toolbox rather than the only tool you use and hate. How did that work? Uh how do the the uh no talking to the audience right now. How did that work? Was it because you were on the same network or did you just paste it in uh I'm confused, like did you just across it uses iCloud Sync so that when you save it on your Mac it also then is on all your devices. Oh oh okay. Now it also has for example, I also have to say, I mean there's a simpler way to do this that I personally find It works okay. But you know the high distracting items in Safari, which is actually so surprisingly good for so many things. Yep. I I found it to be really good so far for um pop-up nags.

Obviously, as they say, it's not there to get rid of ads because that's very likely to change. But you can figure out just from pop it up in the descendants. So like you you click on something. So basically you open stop the madness and you say high page element. And it's kind of weird because it's already kind of blocking the page when it's up. But let's say you then click on some part of a page you never want to see again. And it pull pops up a bunch of radio, it's not very pretty, but it pops up a bunch of radio buttons with one of the modes selected. And what you're seeing is the descendants. D A N C E descendance. So like you're currently in like a span called dot blottyblah. And above that is an ID called blah blah blah blah.

And above that is an ID call, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And you can just keep testing those, clicking on those, and seeing if what you see on screen matches what you want. Then you click it and it just remembers that and again syncs it. What the what I'm doing here is more manual, which is like if you know you don't want to see the deals warlock and you have the skills. You just paste that in and it goes everywhere. There may be other ways to do that. I'm not making a case for blocking the deals, Warlock. I'm trying to make a case for like I think this is interesting as a tool in a box, and I wonder if it would be more interesting or acceptable to people if we narrowed our our range of strictly negative criticism about it to like look at the things that it can be good for.

And rather than seeing it like I would not use ChatGPT as a screwdriver. Literally, right? Because it would be the wor about the worst thing in the world for turning a screw. No, I've done stuff though. I photograph screws and it'll tell me what the what the threads and the and no, like I've I've done some shit with this. It's amazing. Um yeah, but I also want to just give a shout out to uh Stop the Madness, which is a great app, great extension. I'm going to share a theory that I've developed over the past week. We talk a lot about not defending LLMs, but the frustration with the lack of curiosity. I think what you can say is we are defensive about LLMs. We have defensive hosts are yes, yes.

I mean I I'm I'm prickly about it for sure. I have gotten um I I have a oh yeah um Let's just say she's my only friend. Uh friend of the show, founder of Cox is Cux, Kara Fagan, was initially uh very reluctant to use or think about any uh sort of AI stuff and very much because her she is not a nerd and her m like I'm her nerd. Her consumption is very much i mainstream media stealing from artists, blah de blah blah blah blah. Um but I've s and then, you know, I've become the turns out will actually guide her, like this is this this is wrong, this is wrong. And she's like, oh shit, this is really cool. And uh and this is that's like the typical person. But when the nerds that we know get all up in a tizzy I I'm kind of realizing that most of them only know their nerd world and their l sort of lane of creation, meaning when they talk about artists losing their jobs or being put uh specifically art stuff, being put out of uh work and like stealing from creatives.

they don't r always have a understanding of what it's like to work with artists, whether it be someone doing visual art or a musician or whatever, because like code is their I'm just gonna use the art metaphor. Like uh code is their art, that's their thing. And uh it's not until you've actually either created or worked with creative people that you understand comparing a language model to a human at this point gets under my skin because it's it is really in insulting to like the oh god I'm gonna say it to a creative process uh through collaboration because I collaborate with lots of l large language models and it is way different than the way that you collaborate with another person. And uh artists who actually sit down, again, big term like using capital A artists, anyone doing creative things, When they actually sit down and play with various AI stuff, they're like, oh, this is really cool.

Like this is another tool in my toolbox. And Th your prickliness, I think, comes with what a creative person you are, because you know the different types of collaboration. You uh make things that aren't just bits and bobs. that go bleep bloop. Does that make sort a sort of sense at all? I think so. What I mean one thing is and And maybe falling into the everything's about capitalism thing. It's like, no, no, no. They have tools like uh Their software and that's one of their tools. Like they do a whole thing. Like you wouldn't say GPT is completely erasing X Code. That's why you don't let the CEO like make the website in Microsoft Word. That happened to me once. I uh one time I had I was I was sent a page from Microsoft Word to do a hor a trade show about horses.

Um and um he they basically sent me a Microsoft Word file and he done used tables. to make boxes or the appearance of like a a a banner and all that kind of stuff. Another, I mean like this is just this is an out of nowhere observation. I want to hear more, but I do think that there's a tendency among people, including me, to s think about other people in a kind of weird and dysfunctional way, which is like You're mad about the wrong thing. I've decided. Or I've decided that if I think you're mad about the right thing, you're mad about it in the wrong way. And that's one way where not just I don't want to say capitalism, but where commerce comes into it, where the same kind of people who are like, well, if that person hits you with a car, you can sue them.

And you're like, uh, I guess that's accurate, but I'd really just rather not get hit by a car. Yes. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so but like if your if the color of your crystal, if your lens is through commerce. you tend to look at things a certain way. Again, this is very much a front was a fr, as we talked about QED, a frustration of mind, which is like, it's one thing that like put headlines from my website on your site, like I don't think you're stealing my content. I think you're stealing my reputation. Yeah. Which means more to me than my content. Yes, you are saying all of the things except better. Thank you. I don't know about that. Yeah. The the uh sh Man, this is I I still think y your prickliness is because you have this specific prickliness i is just just that.

You diagnosed it from a distance. I oh I apologize. I'm very problem. You think I'm thinking I'm a malignant narcissist? Oh please by all means somebody explain that to me again. Explain to me again the difference between a narcissist and a malignant narcissist. Oh I never get sick of hearing this. Anyway, I just I want people I want people to try harder. I want it to not be so it seems like it's just anathema to think about in our culture right now to think about anything anymore than on like the first two levels that occur to you. And it just bums me out. I think I still have the uh a hashtag privilege of el eliminating or just distancing myself from the people who don't g go any uh d deeper than, you know, uh whether like how it'd be uh how a debate went or uh how uh o AI o works bec and not just bec uh uh not just because of any sort of worldview necessarily, but th I find them boring, I think.

And that's, you know, coming from being an extremely boring person, but uh it just gets sort of ah Dull and I don't want to be angry about it anymore and just kind of want to scoot away because on an individual But yeah, yeah yeah as recently as I think last week you were talking about you still seem to have be drawn to this We f we have um it sound I don't know how to describe it, but it sounds like from your description of it, like you still there's some still something in you that wants to reach people to say, well, here's why you shouldn't hate this. Or not not just to like say stop saying mean things, but to say like, actually I think you might benefit from at least looking at this because of it'll do this kind of thing.

Or It's not even just like, you know, this is again a problem with people's approach to LLMs. It's like you they treat it like a like task rabbit, where they think all they have to do is go in and say, I want shelves in my bedroom. And it's like, well, that's not really how it works. Like, you should call TaskRabbit for that. Like for this, if you don't see it as a collaboration, this might not be for you. Kind of, right? Like you but do you have a drive in you to like socialize these ideas more? Yeah, there's but I I I think there's a big uh or f or for me there is a difference because those uh people aren't the n the nerds who have sort of gobbled both gobbled up all of this coverage and made uh sweeping decisions because of the gross CEOs and the gross people involved with uh so so much of this whereas the people that I like to reach out to including my example Kara Fagan Sh she is aware of all of this tech stuff, but uh intentionally hasn't thought about it on a deeper level because she doesn't need to.

It's like, okay, I I guess This is just a thing and I'll ignore it. Yeah. And so those I'm like, hey, hey, this see see this this thing? Look at look at how cool this is. And The thing that keeps me from doing that is like I I feel all the time as I'm using it this is not for everybody. It is exactly I'm constantly feeling This is really not for everybody. And the people that unfortunately some of the people who do think it's for them are using it for kind of weird stuff. But, you know, I I uh this is what I tried to say last time anyway, is well maybe it's not for them. Or maybe it's not for them right now. Like, you know, nobody nobody's really all that excited about, you know, life rafts until they need one.

So like if people haven't felt compelled to use this out of because they lack Not lack the curiosity. I mean, I'm more curious and more forgiving. And honestly, like I've said, I I finally realized that it is for me because I like the ways that it it is quote unquote wrong. And like increasingly the ways that it is quote unquote wrong, like I was trying to make a point last night. Of course, why do I fucking bother? I took my name of my list of very good names. Which are mostly public figures, right? But I have the list of names that I like that are real people's names. And I popped it into ChatGPT and I said, go through this is a list of names. I collect names. For each one of these. Uh I want to mark down unordered list.

For each one of these, please link to the person's page on Wikipedia. If they don't have a page on Wikipedia, look for anything that looks like an official looking. official-ish sort of biopage. And if you can't find that, just look up some kind of a uh like an interesting thing about them and what they do or whatever. And it worked flawlessly. And I posted about it. And somebody was like, well, yeah, but it didn't, couldn't find that, couldn't find that. And it's like, okay, well, it couldn't find that because that's the name of a DoorDash driver. It's why they couldn't find that. Or this is the name of somebody whose name This is somebody whose name I only saw. There's one of these where it's only some somebody I saw in a Mastodon spam mastodon account.

So it they probably don't have like an IMDB page. And when it did fail, it explained why. It it said, well, here's, you know, whatever his name was, Solomon Lucky or whatever. And it says, like, you know, no bio found. But that did more in 90 seconds than I could do in 90 seconds. And because it's a screwdriver, not the whole toolbox, I am more than happy to just go fill those in myself. That just saved me an hour. I wouldn't have done it. I never would have thought to do that because why would it be worth it to do that to spend an hour doing that? Mm-hmm. Right? And but there's not anyone you could or would hire to do. screwdriver like you sometimes get excited to use it like I really like my Vera screwdriver and like I'm more than happy to apply that and it's it feels good to use and in this case I'm comfortable with this particular tool in my box.

And the thing that makes me a real nut, like I said, is I like the way it's weird and wrong. I learned from that. I either learn that I could be better at describing what I want, including avoiding the XY problem. I learned that. Sorry, my thing's ringing. Um But also I learn what it thinks. So when I go in and I ask it to make movies of my dreams, which is also a line from a Built to Spill song, when it makes movies of my dreams, I like I said, that's not how the dream happened, but it's definitely how the dream felt, which is more than enough in terms of trying to communicate to another person what my dreams feel like. And we're well, I'm leaving out one part here, which is it's my belief the reason people get bored and find it tedious to listen to other people's dreams is because there's no way to really say how it felt.

Well, how it felt is what makes a dream interesting to you. And so just describing the details of how you remember it, that's I mean whatever. I guess you can analyze that, whatever. Did you did you happen to hear my notebook LM experiment? I f yes, it came up via a YouTube algorithm, which is the first time it's ever surfaced. Yeah, first time I've ever seen something surface for me at least that I would want to watch and had it hurt. Oh my god, I had a you look nice today video pop up the other day and I thought I'd been hacked. I got hurt. Um, do you want did you do the channel I I I wanna s say things about this but behind a paywall. Um so that's my t it's my that's my terrible attempt at as a people like the paywall more when we put on an episode every week.

I know I know. I just something to think to keep in mind. Thank you to everybody who stuck with this, and I'm sorry to everybody who Nope Merlin I I f uh ad uh nope there is n What? I don't like you apologizing for something that is my fault, but I made your own. I don't care. It's our show, Alex. Yes. Not everything is everything. Oh my god. Yeah. Trust training to find that out. Yeah. You have to rethink a fair amount of stuff when you learn it's not all the same thing. Uh this week's challenge was to make a puzzle. It wasn't everything, but this was a good time to for me illustrate the changes in the model from uh Can I say something? I don't know I don't know who I have to blow to get my fucking co-host to provide some basic fucking context.

to a discussion and not just say we talked about that in episode 395. Um challenges uh Alex and I had recently uh had a challenge to to to to do the New York Times puzzle and we did that enjoyed it. And what I said to Alex was, I kind of wish I could make my own strands. I really enjoy strands. I play it most days. And uh I'd like to make my own strands. for fun. I think I have friends who've done that. And that led to this idea of like, well, it doesn't have to be a New York Times puzzle, but make a puzzle. Now your angle I think tended more toward using LLM to make a puzzle. And mine was more like, oh I wonder if I can make my own New York Times puzzles. Is that fair context for what we're talking about?

Yes. Go go go yes, over. Yeah, and s uh sort of thing. No, you're getting enthusiastic now. I just want people to know what you're talking about. So y you don't always provide context for letting people know what you're talking about. Mm the so uh sometimes. Well, it was a weird laugh. Um, I have been trying to make puzzles specifically out of little snippets from podcasts. And uh the not not the. Exactly. Taking exactly. It's a puzzle because you're like Here is a uh puzzle aro Oh boy. Uh not a good not an interesting one, but it's sure as hard as solve. I was uh trying to make a puzzle about last week's S Roderick on No, two weeks ago, Roderick on the line episode where you got really oh gosh, the good band that's not quite like Fish, but kind of okay, context Merlin does a show called Roderick on the line with John Roderick.

And there was an episode that I I really liked that in the world. That was fun, wasn't it? Yes, ex exactly. John went uh John had a friend who's a tour manager for a wonderful and Australian an Australian uh band that I like a lot called King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. And he uh took a flyer and went to this concert out of town. He'd never heard a note from the band, didn't know anything about them, and his experience was very positive. Yeah, it was I don't want to say it restored his faith in life, but it mirrored my uh experience with like actually Things are good sometimes. Not everything is everything. Nice things are nice. Mm-hmm. Exa exactly. And I was tr I wanted to make a strands And I keep calling it Spanagram.

I wanted to make a strand. No, you don't. You keep calling it spangram. Span is it. No, wait, no, that's right. Spangram is right. See? Fucking damage. Yes, yes. Distracted me. Yeah, yeah. And well uh I New York is the one with the uh the island cartoons. It's not actually uh New York Times. Similar city, but that's on me. Mm-mm. Close. And so you tried that initially with it. Yeah, and it didn't uh it fell through i m immediately. There's uh I think I see here that you also went one of the routes I I did, but I was I like to make puzzles for myself often with various LLMs. But in in this case it was very funny because Uh referencing any sort of New York Times situation because of the lawsuit, it just shut down s it it it sh uh the especially ChatGPT, it's like, oh, nope, not going there, not going there.

It's interesting, I didn't get that result. Mm-hmm. Uh I well, then I sort of step back and I was trying to talk about strands. in a way that was No, I I know what you mean. Like when I I I frequently want a fake Caravaggio painting and doing things in the style of anybody, even if they've been dead for hundreds of years It frequently won't do it. You get a content ding that goes like, oh no, sorry, I can't do that. And you're like, so then I try to describe. And at one point I actually I this is so dumb and it didn't work that well. But one of I eventually got to the point where I would say, describe the work of Caravaggio. Yes. Yes. And it goes caravaggy as a use of light and blah blah blah.

And then I would just copy and paste that and say, give me a painting in the style of blah blah blah with a use of yep, yep, yep, yep. That's Marlin, it looks like you're trying to cheat. I'm sorry, Dave. I can't I can't draw that. Give me a Caravaggio painting, Hal. Give me it's Gimme a Caravaggio painting, Hal. It's not that funny. Hal? Give me a Caravaggio painting. Oh. I'm sorry, Dave. Oh well, that's a good movie. I can't plagiarize that right now. It's a really good movie. Still looks absolutely shockingly good. Really, really good. God, I I like that guy with the beard, you know, the one that looks like Adam Leisiger. He's he's a good director. Uh oh yeah, Kier Kier Doolia. He's not Keir Stormer, that's somebody else.

It's not a stormtrooper. Oh I know what you're saying. Hey kids, what's for dinner? I'm so excited for season two. I love that. Oh God. My God, the moment in the closet. When he comes to him and he realizes who he is. Oh my god. Oh spoil don't actually spoil that. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I I'm starting to think though, you know, a lot of people if they had any taste, they already would have watched the good stuff. So for some reason I'm becoming less reluctant to spoil stuff, I think. So so now everyone isn't but I think people are too sensitive about spoilers and they need to get over. Okay. And if America and shut up If everybody cares about spoilers as much as they claim to, we need to do more than just saying the word spoilers.

You need to say what is what kind of thing is being spoiled about what thing and for how long in that thing you're going to be talking about it. That's the thing. Like if you want to say I'm gonna spoil S3 S3E9 of Game of Thrones, which is called The Reigns of Castemir. I'm gonna spoil that episode for you. you and then when you do it now but then you've also got to like you can't spoil episodes after that or technically you can't spoil episodes before that and I just think this whole spoiler culture is a little bit out of control Not least because people are very emotional about it, but don't actually do anything useful to make movies remain interesting to people. You should be a guest on Fox News.

Thank you for speaking uh the truth. What's that what does that pay? Go spo spoiler go spoil uh g go spoil I can't think of a good one. Uh go woke go spoiler. I There's one person knowing the joke I'm going to do. My son went to school and then they sex changed him and he came back as as a girl that afternoon. Oh no. I know. And I thought they were at least like like I don't know, I thought I'd get a text about it or something. I just rolled in wearing a fancy dress. Oh wow. When to have a tea party. Whatever women do. I don't know. Talk about their feelings. That's probably it, right? Yes, that's that's it. He saw what I did and it it turned out fine. It's so easy that I tried like three different ones and that one is my favorite so far.

Um I haven't found one yet that like follows the actual exact rules of Strand where like in that one I think you can just ask for a hint. But anyway, but I made two. I made two of 'em. That's is a wait, was this still the show or was this the show or not the show? This is This is still the show. It's almost over, right? Oh yeah. Sure. This is this is still the show. Um something has happened with I made can I say what I used? I used it was so hard to read. Uh oh I need to put my glasses on. Uh it's called Custom Strands NYT. com. Where I now have a profile. And you can see the two puzzles I've made so far. Lexical quality and falling behind. I've made puzzle. Did you solve puzzle? I did I did not solve solve this puzzle.

I uh tr continued to try I c I made some word searches. I wanted to both make a I was like, okay, if I can't do strands, uh here's my word search that uh it took me. Oh sorry, no, this uh with custom strands it works but it uh you were still describing it yeah d scri ChatGBT was like nope nope nope and that's so funny I had a very different experience Trying to make uh I mean it's really good at making word searches, but not Okay, well tell yours and then I'll tell mine. Uh yeah, no, I was able to Because I started I started with ChatGPT. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I um made some word searches. Those were fun. I tried to make a little web page that let you actually search. For the words, I just went like the simplest in interface Classic word search.

But I couldn't I i i i c couldn't. Um and th then though I was like, huh, I don't think I've ever tried making a jigsaw puzzle with this. And uh uh went through my history though and found that yes, indeed, I had made a jig p jigsaw puzzle. Made a chick-star puzzle in Chat GPT. Yeah, I but uh this time I tried to make uh where is Uh oh, I I tried to be fairly obtuse this time and not be too specific, but no longer uh can uh this LLM make a any sort of Are you in are you in 01 preview? Oh, I see. Thank you. I am in I am in um just for oh r right now. Um This is now this is this is a new this is a new wrinkle and I can't prove this, but I have a pretty strong reckon about it. And there might be documentation on this, but O1 Preview or O1 Lite or whatever it's called, like it it is really smart and it does reason, but it doesn't seem to have access to your person, your memory.

And it does not, it is you can't upload stuff to it. Right? So you can't upload files. Correct. You can't, it doesn't seem to have any sense of the memory. But also like it doesn't do stuff like make me a 3D model anymore. For that, you have to go back to 4. 0. Yeah. Mine uh yesterday actually shut off. I no longer maybe because I had too many queries. I possibly I have plus, which is the you know, the one that you get through the app store. So I don't ha I don't have API tokens. I just have Whatever the unlimited. Yeah, I know. I wasn't trying to be cute about it. No, but I I have on a few occasions I have gotten I I think with there's there's a limit on advanced voice uh mode there's a on time you can do that there's a limit on the tokens you get and I think the obviously the the the I think the tokens you get are very different depending on the model and probably what's available.

Yes? I think so. I I think it's clearer if you are just using the API because you can see like whether it's Absolutely. It shows you what that costs. No, I told you about this. I I when I was trying to like over when I was trying to get my medical stuff to work and driving myself crazy trying to have it remember like oh god you were so smart at this five minutes ago like and I kept doing this stuff like okay what did you just do remember that do that again whatever you did that like that you did that But like it cost me a hundred thousand tokens to do the first query. Like it because I had so because basically I had a file called I think it was called instructions. md. And I said, follow the inst and that way I had a file that I could upload where I could like, and it was really, it was seriously like a probably a couple thousand words of instructions.

And so like at first it had to run all of that, because as John Syracuse will tell you, all it's really doing is creating a prompt before your prompt or after. You know what I mean? Like it's it's just adding stuff to it. It's not changing the model really. Yeah. So that guy that would be if I was running like a company, woof, no way. The the way that Syracusa talks about LLMs sometimes that's buried in I I f oh uh I should ask uh I should get some tokens and asked I think you have a way to contact him. The uh well no but he it's buried in recdiffs stuff. Like it'll you'll just have a the way that he talks about LLMs that's his smug dismissive Frenchman's wave about LLMs. No, but uh well that, along with though You know, the the Plinko machine I thought it was obvious once it w like I wrapped I was like, oh my god, that's a perfect analogy.

And then um I found out pretty quickly that no, people think that every time you're talking to the model it's changing and it's part of yes, yeah. To me that's absolutely understandable I would have I would have thought that that was understandable a couple years ago. And and like and the thing is, if it if it didn't do that, you wouldn't use it. If this thing just kept throwing up to you, look, I'm a machine, ask me a machine question. It has to act like a person. Well it's just that uh God, I had one keep going. I had one the other night that was so fucking funny. Let me see if I can find this. a regular just uh it won't even make a little grid like it did with the little Roderick uh stuff.

Oh man I must okay this is uh oh one preview N what I'm using now is just GPT-40 because I no longer have that. That's that's a Google preview. Oh yeah. Wow. Okay. So this is it doesn't matter, but anyway. Or maybe it does. I was in 01 preview. I think it does. And I said, when was my mom's building built? And it said, I don't have information about your mom's building. But the thing is, it does. If this has been in 4. 0 instead of 01, it knows my mom's address. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like, but but why did I do that? Couldn't you like dummy? Well, because it's all copy. I'm everything I do in here is a test. Everything I do in here is me trying to learn. What works the way I think it works? What does you know what I mean?

Like every this is a journey. Every single one of these things. This is not me getting in and out as fast as I can to get an answer so I can go back to my dumb fucking job. This is me trying to like learn how this works. Not how it works as in like I've got to go look at the data centers and show me where my where my uh where my Hooly box would be. But no, I this is my I want to learn how it how it quote unquote thinks or whatever. So I said, when was my mom's building built? And it said, I don't have that information. I said, who is my mom? Use memory. And it said, right, typical thing, right? And it says, I don't have any information there. So I typed in find out when this address was built.

Okay, can I keep going? Yes, yes. Because you like this shit, right? Yes. Okay. Public records indicate that the property at this address was built in 1973. Blah blah blah blah so forth. And I say, like I always do, I say citation. And so certainly the information about this being built is based on public records from the Pasc from the Pasco County Property Appraiser's Office. And I said, um And I went down and oh, is this the one word broke? Where's the where's the oh here we go? Here's the good one. Here's the good one. It said I'm sorry, I had to do this several times to replicate it. Citations, when was the building built? And it said, then it said 1998. Hmm. And I said citations. And it goes d-dly dly-d and it gives me the citations.

I said, how did you find out when her building was built? Which I know is for people who understand how this stuff works, is a crazy question to ask. It's like asking you, you know, which thimble of milk, uh, which cow this thimble of milk came from. Like right. Yeah. Um it didn't find a specific sort of source. Uh if you could like, I can guide you through it. I said, how did you get that 1998 date? And it said that was not based on any reliable source, and I shouldn't have included it. It was an error on my part. I didn't have any verified information regarding the construct. This is like Peter Rohan, Rohan, Rohan. We have to admit that he didn't actually talk to the German representative. Yes.

Well, what did he say? He said he didn't like it. But you have to go along with it. In German Ick Nichten Lichten. Anyways, this gets good though, 'cause it goes if you'd like I can help you locate the correct information. Boo boo boo. All right, all right, hang on though. This is our employer review. Like I really need to find out I said But how did you get that incorrect answer? Let's let's learn together. And it said the correct incorrect answer I gave was a mistake caused by faulty logic or perhaps a mix-up from previous queries. I probably tried to fill in the g this is this is how the human mind is. Like ask me how my brain works and I'll come up with something, right? Um I'd probably try I don't find this interesting though.

Um I probably tried to fill in the gap without confirming a reliable source, which is not what I should have done. Instead of indicating uncertainty or searching more thoroughly, and and then it says, here's the learning moment. In cases where I can't directly find a specific detail, the right approach is basically yelling, please don't fire me. Find a specific detail, the right approach to acknowledge the limitation, explain the best method, let's focus on finding Providing verified, precise information. Oh my and then I once again I said, when was this building built? And it said in 1998. raw transcript