363. My Dennis

This is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Alex Cox and Merlin Mann. This week's challenge, do something bloggy. Y'all done? I am trying to figure out what I'm saying. Yes, please. There we go. All right, hang on. Well, this is no probably not the best one to start with, but boy does it ever go there. Oh yeah. Can you hear that that dog now? Yeah. Ooh. Crazy part is, listen, when the chorus starts, they still stay on the root chord. Come out, come out, wrong. Okay, hang on, here come the Hayden sisters. Come out, come out, come out, and come out, come out, wherever you want. That dog. I enjoy that. Oh man, they're so neat. And do you know who the Hayden sisters are? Uh the trip there's triplets of the Hayden sisters.

Do you know about them? Not at all, no. Um, oh, sorry, my scooter's turning off. Hey, thanks for um first of all, oh my god, I got a lot to talk to you about. Um Thank you for abiding a later start. Uh I slept too long. Oh, always. Well, I you know what it is, it's just Tuesdays I end up being up late. Um Do do do do do do do. And ana warunker. Say it soft and it's almost like praying. Anna warunker. I uh An Anna Warunker. I'm uh you're I can just hear your poor Scoot Scoot in the background like crying out to you. It's like a baby Oh God. I can help. Anna Anna Warunker. Anna Ronker. Anna Well Ronker. Anna Rawanka. Nope. More like Wa Well Ronker. Anna Will Ronker. Well wonker. Well Anna Ron Well Ron.

Anna. This isn't Anna. Wa. Wa. Wa. Wa. Ronk. Ronk. No. Anna? Ronk. Hang on. Anna. Nope. Nope. Anna? Anna? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Repeat repeat después de me. Anna? Si Anna? Una masa. Basta. Repeat repeat repeat that dispersing me. I've not changed, I've not changed, I'm treating you more formally because I'm angry. Okay. Bien, bien. Alessandra? Repita después de me. Anna? Anna? Wa. Wa. Ronk. Ronk ronk er Anna Anna Wa Ronk Ronk Er Anna Rewonker. Anna Rewonker. You got over your skis again. You didn't do the questions at the end of chapter one. Anna Woolronker, who uh if you're my age, you know that name, that last name, because her father is a very, very famous and extremely wealthy producer.

from LA uh called Joey Woolronker. He might have played drums too, but anyway, if you'll Joey Woolronker's like a famous studio executive, so everybody looks down their nose at that dog, but whatever. Anyway, I don't know anything about the drummer except he's really cute and gay. And the bass player and violinist, or I can't tell, viol violin or viola, probably violin. The the the bass player and the violin player are sisters. Um, see, I think it's it's Rachel. Yeah, well Rachel and uh there's three anyway, there's three triplets, and they're named Hayden. Wait, there's three hidden as in three sets of triplets or there's triplets. Three triplets. Repeat This de A T M machine Re Pi Ta De Squis De Me Hey, I see I see the A ha ha hadn't had triplets less triplets des Haddon Bitte, Code and Siemens Wagenball, Haden Triplitz.

Hard and triplets. Hearts heart and triplets. Peter, can you ask significant? Can you ask significant the hardened triplets? Come say this Ratchel Hadmuse, no say, no say, I feel like I'm in the Spanish Civil War and I don't know what side I'm can't come say that dog Oh, that's styled as styled as in the uh you say lowercase that a dog period Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And if you can identify all the languages that I misspoke there, you win a uh a Biog Riviera. Not a nice one. Not a nice one. There's this band that I became aware of in 1900. Hi everybody. Um uh welcome to Do by Friday. It's a show where we try to keep it together. Boy, see the bang bang machines back. Now I think it might be a squirt.

No, I think it sounds like it might be a a mobile Dr. Seuss car wash. No, whatever that looks like in your head. But it was like this. It's got long hairy gloves fingers. Picking up cars and putting it in. And I g I I imagine also people it it's San Francisco, so people are like, ooh, we gotta ban ban the worst. I don't notice that. Excuse me. Oh, I'm sorry, did I bother your Dr. Seuss Carwash with having a life? I guess Fritzy and Fritza will just have to defecate in the house now. Oh, I'm sorry. Were you busy washing a car? Oh, did your death machine get dirty? I wouldn't want to get in the way of that with taking care of my dogs. Oh I don't like this character. Yeah, I dunno it's a Or you got a Kenneth Parcel but like the the the bitchy you've got a Martha Kenneth Parcel going like Yeah no no get your death machine I can't do the character, no.

Uh let's see. What did I say? Marcel what? Mar Marcel uh the not the shell, no. Uh uh uh uh uh see I was gonna try and do nude to standing a staircase, which I know how to say in French, but now I can't remember it. Okay, so I first became aware of this band in 1997. A terrific time for 90s Crunchy Power Pop. I mean that's like this was my lo-fi and super crunchy like indie power pop. And like angular, you know, power like pop, indie pop, but like angular stuff like Archers sorry, Syracuse, angular stuff like Archers of Love, like Poppy Girl stuff like post-grunge, like um like that dog. Like there's so many good bands. Obviously I'm still in the middle of a a re my annual Guided by Voices thing.

But you know, that kind of music, you were awfully young at the time, but a lot of it's really good and a lot of it is kind of lost to time. And I think that dog might be one of those. Anna Wool Ronker has a band, and in the band are two of the the Hayden sisters. Now Hayden the Hayden sisters, their father is a very famous jazz musician named Charlie Hayden, and it's triplets, and they they look alike and everything. But but they're not that kind of triplets. Like they dress differently. They look well. Go go um Do you have do you have an internet browser in front of you? I do. Go to YouTube A and look for that dog. Um but never uh never say never. And you'll see that the two sisters look real different, but they're both really cute.

And they're they're like just incredible I don't know how to describe it. People who know like the If You Know You Know thing. Rachel Hayden covered covers entire albums by bands, but all a cappella. So she's covered the who sell out of all albums, a cappella. Like she does all the instruments. And she does all the singing. They the Hayden sisters famously and wonderfully sing. The the craziest perfect close harmonies, like death-defying close harmonies, so the harmonies are so close. You know what I mean by close harmonies, right? Like No, I thought I did, but now I don't. Well I mean close harmony is a really famous thing in barbershop, in a cappella. Oh it's like where you're singing you're singing a note so like so hard and so clearly, but it's not just a fifth.

or a third or an octave or something. They sing the these crazy intervals and they nail it every day. So this is no baby on board. Like it's a full on uh type. Barney only drinks to improve his social skills. That was my two days. Love that episode. Um hey hey home Um and they they have this pop band with Anna Will Ronker. And uh and uh and they're they're anyway, here we are. I don't know if you'd like them. It's and like they're weird. They're weird. They're one of those bands where you're gonna go one would go back and watch it and go like it's it's very much I I'm kind of I feel like we're overusing Rorschach test at this point because uh now it's starting to lose any of its original meaning, but it's what a lot of people would call a Rorschach test on the internet in the sense of Several different people could look at it and tell you several several different things.

The commonality is it's all still really good pop music, like all Rorschach tests. Oh, sidebarb. You care about what you care about m meanings. What does a Rorschach test mean? What is a true Rorschach test? Oh man, you're gonna I don't I I my understanding of it is it's a pretty blunt-ish tool. People people st I think it's still used today clinically for for reasons that weren't quite as significant feeling as the early days. Like you might still check somebody's head to make sure it doesn't have a con like a um head trauma, but you wouldn't use it to find out if they're a Jew. Like phrenology has fallen out of favor for certain kinds. Yeah, I've still got my I got calipers right here, literally.

I'm a 3D printer. I need them. I need them for my work. For eugenicists. No, they're they're not just for eugenicists anymore. Excuse me, miss. I'm trying to make a little guy. Are you a Jewist? Hmm. Are you sure you're from Bavaria? Are you sure you're from Bavaria? Are you sure you're not from Silesia? Hmm pretty slobic for a war anchor. Huh What's a Rorschach test? Well, I mean, I I uh uh gosh, you know what? I was gonna try and like free ball it, but my understanding of a Rorschach test is it's a Oh no, what's that term? Like when you're a little kid and you squish together paints and then open the page and there's two pages? It's an inkblot test that is administered by a therapist. who holds something up to you and first thought, best thought, you're just you're supposed to say like what comes to mind when you see that.

Now in movies, people go butterfly, vagina, kill, but like, it's I think it's mainly a way to just Do a quick gloss today pro you know what? I don't know. I don't know how it started, but at least in m in movies. Merlin, what's a Rorschach test? Well, first thing I have an opening statement. My opening statement is I've seen a lot of Hollywood movies and TV shows. What's shock treatment? Well, Milo Schwarman made a movie in 1975 called One Flew Of the Cuckoo's Ness. Now dating DeVito, Vincent Schivelli, it's a stacked cast in that movie. Is Danny DeVito in uh one flew over the cuckoo's nest? It's a very upsetting. So it's a flashback show, right? It takes place in the early 60s. So I think he's a World War II veteran um who who was shot out of the air in a plane or something.

And like if you watch Mr. Martini in the movie Danny DeVeer talks about this in one of in one of those like Discuss Your Rolls um videos. Like he's always 'cause he was in the play. He's one of like the two or three people who were in the play before it was a movie. Of course it's got Reverend Jim. Sorry, what you call Doc Brown. Um Christopher, what's his name is in it? I love his work. Yeah. Christopher. The guy from uh Clue. It's Back to the Future. The guy the guy who puts the shoe in the barrel in Roger Rabbit. Oh, um, so yeah, oh, ooh, ooh, ooh, so visceral. Oh god, no, oh fuck. Fuck oh. Christopher Knight is the guy from Brady Bunch. Or or as real real life uh Rick, as I'm sure you like to call him from Rick and Morty.

Oh God, Chr is not Christopher Ecks Eccleson. God, oh I see the shoe. I hear the shoe. Oh, people know. Oh and um and so uh it was originally a play and it's about uh uh uh uh like a serial criminal guy who's also like a scammy guy and like he gets out of a prison term or a jail term, I think a prison term. For like for would have been like kinda long by like acting like he's crazy. So they put him in um a sanitarium, an asylum. And uh you know so oh gosh, I should have said something. I'm sorry. Uh anyway it takes place in a in a health hospital. Well, I don't know. I mean CW And I don't mean the TV station. No, you should have said something before you talked about the shoe in who framed Roger Rabbit.

Oh my god, it was so it's so sad. This the face on the shoe is so sad. Oh, oh. Face on the shoe is the thing I said. I'm 57. So Ann Will Ronker and the Hayden sisters do this, and I don't know the guy's name, but he's great. And uh it's a wonderful um Chris Christopher Lloyd is now what uh Did you like Clue? We watch Clue every Christmas morning for some reason. Oh yeah. Did you know those things just like the con traditions for no reason? Yes. Yes. I was about to say we watch when Harry meant Sally every New Year's Eve. Oh, yeah. That's that's right. Yeah. Jarms and Chicken. I love when they're doing the wave. Mm-mm. And and the the line that that Sirke looks to remind me of, I always forget and it's it's one of my favorite lines from the movie when he reminds me of it.

Is one of us supposed to be a dog in this scenario? Wait, wait, where's that? Oh, because he's he's doing one of his dumb like analogies trying to explain something about relationships and he uses the dog as an example. And then and then Meg Ryan says, is one of us supposed to be a dog in that scenario? I also love when Carrie Fisher says someone's staring at you in personal growth. God that was a little bit more than a little bit. Isn't that a wonderfully written movie? But it's not the one with horses, horses, horses. And and I'll always be wrong about that. What's horses, horses, horses? Which one is that? Oh the Philadelphian uh sleepers in Seattle. There we go. Sorry. Not the AIDS one, the Seattle one.

Oh Christopher Lloyd, um uh angel Angels in the outfield. Uh which is Angels in the Outfield. Yes, yes, which is if you build it, they will resurrect. There was a weird time where three movies came out. Oh it's one. I know what you're talking about. We need a name for this, Alex. No, not B Movie, but No, it was B movie and Ants. Ants and uh Ants and Bugs Life. Uh Angels in the Oh my god, there's so there's so many you're talking about baseball movies, right? Probably Angels in the Outfield and maybe like League of Their Own? No Uh no, it was little little big league, I think, and then there was the one where the kid becomes a pitcher. For the Cubs, God's a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a She has to be wrong.

The Prestige and the Illusionist. They came out roughly the same time. And one was with the great Edward Norton. Yeah. One of 'em and one of 'em Edward Norton sure was in that movie. That is something that we say. Absolutely. And a bit that we have as a family absolutely stolen wholesale from my brother, my brother and me. There are still times when something very, very funny and unexpected happens and somebody yells, The Prestige. Do you remember that bit? There it was a live show and sorry, now I'm just repeating other people's jokes. I don't fucking care. Um I'm a fan above all else. Uh the three brothers are on stage doing a live thing and and Griffin is doing one of his like kind of fast talking things and he's like, oh no, no, no, we go to the Olive Garden every time we got the Olive Garden, and he'd mentioned this on previous episodes, is the beautiful part.

And nobody never said anything. But when we go to Olive Garden, they'd say, hey Griffin, are you hungry? You know that there's that pasta on in a jar on the table. And if you're hungry, you can eat that. And on stage, as he's saying it, Griffin realizes what we all know, which is that pasta is not to eat. That pasta is just to be pasta on the table. And he realizes it and starts s screaming. And the audience goes fucking crazy and Travis goes, the prestige. It's the funniest thing in the world. Such a long con. Things it took Griffin too long to realize. I've always thought that they wanted to yell uh all three of them wanted to yell the aristocrats. I do I do that too. I still I did that I did that like two days ago, I said the aristocrats to somebody.

I still I I uh some some people get upset by that, the way I get upset by the movie. Why would they get upset by that? Because they don't like the movie? Um yeah, because they don't like how to do it. But you didn't tell you pooping on your daughter's butthole story, like you just said the aristocrats. I just said, yeah. W when I like it when somebody tells it and the penultimate line is, uh, wow, sounds like a hell of an act you got there. What do you call it? That's I love a lot of people say, wow, that's a hell of an act you got there. I always picture the person asking that question with a large cigar. It does not matter what it is. Like an agent, right? Do you like Chris Fleming? You like Chris Fleming, right?

Yes, yes. We're gonna see him tomorrow night. What? Yeah, yeah. My stupid fucking wife. My stupid fucking goddamn wife. Idiot. Oh, did she do something nice? Yeah, no, she's so sweet. She bought us she bought us tickets for Christmas. Well, bought me tickets and making the dragging the kid along, but I think he'll fall in love. I think he'll fall in love with Chris Fleming. We did an entire episode about Chris Fleming. So did we talk about Showp? Have we talked about Showpig? We talked about Gale. We we talked about Gail. We talked about the um uh theater uh theater bombers theater Yes, yes, yes. Daddy's coming home. Daddy's coming home. Daddy, are you going on tonight? We need to really get you behind Tillip and Tillip too.

Um the little boy from Jerry Maguire. No, no, no, just like the young I was going around on the luggage. Just like the little man just like the young man from Jerrymaguire. Um on YouTube uh so you've seen clearly you've seen Gail you've seen the uh Hell, his show on Peacock. Check out That is how I was introduced to him. Well, I think me too. As with so many things, like I saw Hell. I think, and then was like, oh, I think I know other things. I didn't realize how many other things, you know, vi funny video things he had done. Um but also check out on YouTube a show uh a show from a few years ago called Show Pid. It's really funny. It's a live another live show that's very funny. If you're looking for more, um Chris forming content.

But we've got a show to do, Alex. We do. We're fans above all else. But s uh speaking of I mean pre Dig Dug Challenge, part uh I I was trying immediately to find uh old show notes. online and you mentioned something show notes for this show uh dobyfriday. com slash whatever episode and uh Like a couple weeks ago you mentioned SEO as a c I don't know, off the cuff comment about something that I'm doing r wrong in uh I I don't know, in posting the show. Which is totally right. And then I'm like, y why can't I find I d I truly don't know how to use Google anything? I can't find anything of mine on Mastodon. That's one reason I need Mars Edit. It's like I've I can never find there's because Mastodon hates threads.

So much. But I'm I I don't like threads as in like thread, but I like thread as in something just popped up on a thread from a year ago because there's an update and if you liked it at the time, this will make you happy too. You know, it's hard to find stuff. Did you do the site trick, site calling? That works pretty well. Yeah, yeah. But to say that another site beat us in SEO for our own site. Uh the oh yeah, no. If if you if you Googled you back to the city, Bill Clinton put out a book called Back to Work. Yeah. Wow, that's really that's not very cricket Bill. Wow. They call that the Arkansas surprise. No. You didn't even get a cigar out of that. That's also my Tim Cook. Continue. I can't wait to see what you do with this.

Every day there is a gay Tim Cook joke I don't make. Every day I have one. And I don't do it because I'm an adult. Um, you know what, I don't know. That's none of my business. If he's not, he's missing his best bet. That's my bell, everyone. Sorry, what we're talking about Bill Clinton. Uh we were talking about Bill Clinton. We were talking about m uh mastodon threads on Mastodon. Oh, sorry, you were talking about social media. So you about to tell an anecdote about us in SEO. Uh I was I was slowly trying to get us into the challenge. Whatever the I'm you know what I am this week? The opposite of peanut butter. Because I've had six weeks to do this challenge and just in the natural course of how I operate, I've done this challenge like six different ways.

very impressed when you you asked me last night what was the challenge again? And I thought that I had been abz uh watching you do the challenge very well in public on Mastodon And thought, oh God, Merlin's doing so many interesting things. Right. No, no, I should I knew that you had truly forgotten. My friend Kim in chemistry class. I know I feel that one Shut up, Kim. Oh, oh, I was I mean, I wasn't I bet you were like that. I truly didn't. But I bet you believed him. I bet unlike Kim, I bet Kim was fishing for compliments. But you, which is a terrific show she used to do called Fishing for Compliments with uh Kim McMullen. But um That does sound good. It's like fishing with John, except it's my friend who is good at chemistry.

We kissed for two months. Um Syracuse. But no, she's my lab partner. Wait, wait, so so you God, so many I can't li I don't want to listen to that episode because uh I I don't know if I wanna hear about the kisses and I don't know if I w Yeah there is an episode, I think, of Reconcilable Differences, your show with John Syracusa, where he says you've been kissed too often. I think of course in his own in his own however we processed that close to the metal, it it came out as something like some people got kissed too much. Which is like just close enough to zero drugs. I think he I think he toked a weed cigarette one time, probably, is my guess. I I I imagine that He didn't inhale is what did butt him.

That's worse than regular cat. Oh god. Oh god. There should be an entire episode There's the for uh for our uh three three ketamine listeners, I I want uh I have so many questions and not necessarily ketamine. Uh no about ketamine. I don't I don't I also have many questions about John Syracuse, but it's none of my business and I shouldn't want to. I said it in 2011, Layers of an Onion And and the thing is the nice thing about that analogy is it just makes more sense every fucking hour of my life. I discover I I discover these ninety-nine ways that he's exactly how he is. And again, uh as I stipulated, he's always exactly how he is. But then I'll discover some new thing that I didn't know about him.

And then the onion, I have to reprocess the entire onion one layer at a time. I kind of get excited when John goes He like breaks woke on ATB. I like that he tried the uh those guys try to really try really hard to get better and do the right thing, but I yeah, I do like it when they break the bid too. Nobody's like that all the time. Be serious. But but but wait, this this made me made me chuckle. I'm sorry, I'm playing a a bit from there. I'm obsessed with those guys. Uh I'm oh my god. Okay, here here is the most recent member episode which you should j uh join. I'm not obsessed. that uh when we were kids we learned about uh were great people when in fact they were absolutely not would be Christopher Columbus, not great, uh uh and and to Alaska Edison.

Less genocidal extent. I was like less gen stupid less genoc Every couple weeks I t he says something that's really really funny and I say John John I'm I'm gonna say a couple things to you. First of all, you're really fucking funny. And two, could you be like this all the time? Could you be he's like ChatGPT. He yells at me because I'm trying to make ChatGPT into a useful friend. And I really feel like I have the same struggle with him. Oh, that's genocide. Oh, yeah. See, who are you trying to find, remember? Uh uh Oh, I was trying to find our episode about Chris Lemming, but more importantly. the after show where there's just a a palooza of Chris Fleming's show notes that I I've m m listen, the one thing that I'm good at, even if the links are not formatted correctly.

I'm good at I I don't miss a link. It's it's very difficult to listen to an episode and not uh get a link in chronological order. Well I I'm I have to I have to admit I never said I've never said this. I used to be adamant about that in the days when I would spend But even before Rectus, where I would spend hours and hours and hours, it was critical to me that no link ever be out of sequence. I gave that up horde. That's a lot of work. Because that means every every time you add a link that you forgot about, you gotta go rearrange. And it's like that's not sustainable. Like on Spotify, when I make my introductions, my general introductions playlist or any playlist. To me, the first track is really imp oh they're all important, but like the the last track is really important.

Because like if it's an Ellie Smith playlist, it needs to end with say yes. But if then if I add St. I'd heaven to the list And that that's weird. You don't want same well, that's not bad for a last one, but you know, it screws up my say yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I keep interrupting you. I'm so sorry, Alex. Yeah, so we used to do links in order, and you were looking for old Chris Fleming links for uh the after show. Uh gives your fucking money. com. Yeah, and I can't I just couldn't find them and now I realize that it's probably because they're behind. If I if psycholon whatever doesn't work and it I mean that's not the best way to f for a variety of reasons, that's not the best way to find stuff these days.

Thanks Google. But um that's really where I go to spotlight. Well, I I mean Or drafts. I mean drafts of course so I can always find like 'cause that's As somebody who types everything first in drafts, that kinda makes it a place where if it's I if I know uh you know, there's those kinds of things like like a Mastodon thing or like Like if it's show notes, it's an NV alt or drafts. If it's a you know what I'm saying? Like that helps a lot. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a good thing. I broke I I think I broke um my elements folder uh see see all of I mean I like it. You should back it up every time it occurs to you. Like twice a year and every time it occurs. to you. Just just hit high compressed. I have I yeah, I have a a zip file in uh b box which is a service that I pay for only because It's like Dropbox for Canadian people or something?

Kind of, but but but but they have a native Vision OS app. Aboriginal is the preferred term. Hmm, oh nope, nope, not it well, it's indigenous. Nope, nope, not doing it, not doing it. Uh the we keep we keep circ circling back, circling back. Dick Doug, the challenge th this week wa which has been the past two weeks really, was to do something bloggy. And you did you have been bloggying it up. D what about you? You y you must have one time. I mean like I are you you so you're not doing the old school thing of like I didn't really do the challenge. You actually you're curious about like what I've done. Oh I uh yes, I in our super secret text channel I even said I w I wanna hear about ghost. And which is why it was so funny that after after that, after saying, wait, uh uh hold on, let me go.

Um You said Victor Hugo's birthday week? Yes. And I think with Victor Hugo's birthday week, I just immediately Don't surprise you to know I have no idea why you said that. Um, because I pictured a happy birthday uh uh Mr. Hugo, but you doing the strip tease to Despite him being dead, I think it would be nice for you to do your lay Ms. Striptease. Oh, I see what oh my God. Okay. At his grave. So you're making a joke about how I ask you to please tell me how much it would cost for you to strip live on camera for me to I Dream to Dream, which is a musical about something Victor Hugo wrote and it's his birthday. Yes why we're the sixties. It would indeed cost $16,967. 28, which is a year of health insurance.

That's not a s that's not the offer of a serious person. Who wants to make money dancing? I don't know. I don't know. I I didn't say I wanted to make money. That's how much that is how as we discussed in that after show. Well yeah, but I mean things cost a lot of things, Alex. That doesn't make it work for the market. But that's not no no no you you asked how much would it take for me to do a OnlyFans style. I want to see you start awkwardly gyrating. I don't yes, and it'll take sixteen thousand nine hundred and sixty-seven dollars and twenty-eight cents. Give us your fucking money. com Implying that you'll dance for them? Oh yes, absolutely. I will again Will the tigers still come at night? Uh with their voices loud as thunder?

Sorry, softest thunder. That's a great line. I love it. They did they they by they I mean Yes that's that's they self-identify as their tiger of birth. The Tigers did come at night for Ann Hathaway because she won an Oscar for her performance in Lay Ms. Got up on this on stage when she won for Best Supporting Actress. and said it came true through tears and everyone was like Oh my god uh are we done with that now not us, but I mean like are we done with being unnecessarily mean to Anne Hathaway? 'Cause it's really unseemly. I don't think so. No. I I don't I've never I've never understood it. It it really seems like somebody who hated her in high school was in a position of power and like got everybody to say mean things about Hath.

I've never I've never I mean is she's supposed to be a dick? Why why are we mean to her? She's really talented. Where she has everything. Yes, she is Hollywood royalty, and yet all of the bullies just Love. No, nope, nope, nope. It is uh other hair section over there. Uh yep. Oh yep, yep, it is. Yep, yep, yep. Uh I'm not proud of what people have uh yeah, wanna go in back in the closet for that one. Oh well, I mean I there all there's a lot of people, there's not one kind of person with purple hair. Otherwise you're able to get our calipers and put 'em in camps. Yeah. No, because they love camping. Sign camper a perfect. What are we doing here? What's happening? What are we doing? We're doing the challenge, Dig Dug V th for like two weeks the challenge has been to do something bloggy and you are just blogging.

I mean, I can tell you things that I think are covered by what we've talked about. So the idea of do something bloggy for context, what that means, I think, sorry, what I think it means, is like, hey Uh it's fun to have like post things places and it's it's fun to have a website and honestly it's fun to play with new tools. And I mean I have my own reasons for like getting curious about this stuff I'd be happy to talk about, but It's not really it. Well I'm not done explaining what all the pieces are. So what? All right, all right. Proceed. Proceed. I'm I want to hear about it. This sounds more and more like you just didn't do this at all. I f I didn't peanut butter. It's like I spilled g the bottom of the melted peanut juice of the natural peanut butter because I wasn't using any uh still peanut butter new tech It's still.

But anyway, whatever. I'm happy to. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I it sounds like do I can just skip all of and just talk about ghost if you want, but I I'm of course, be being me, I'm always willing to talk about the in the weeds details that don't really appeal to normal people, but I'm also feeling somewhat philosophical about some of this stuff right now, which is, you know, enhancing my interest in it. You know what I mean? I'm like, okay, like, okay, can can I say something? Yes, this is a genuinely bits jokes about it. Okay, so this is what I want to hear. Um not that it matters, but ever since I became able to post things to the internet, I've thought it was a really cool thing. Whether I mean I I maybe the first thing ever was updating my finger profile, like in the terminal.

I don't even remember. But like like the ability to have something that is now on the internet somewhere to publish myself. I mean, anybody here ever like make their own newspaper when they were a kid? I used to record my own radio shows. Like there's something exciting about being so in love with a medium for your life. Oh, this is really good, Alex. There's something about being so in love with a medium for as long as you can remember, and then suddenly somehow having a way to act like you're contributing to it. And so maybe that's where you say, oh, it's the first shade Terrace Times. It's our one and only edition there'll ever be. Or you know what I mean? Or like me interviewing my dad for this made-up radio show when I was sick.

stuff like that or uh you know later on can't can't don't sleep on this one having access to a four-track recorder and like recording music and being able to put that on a tape and give it to somebody. These are all forms of play in in the sense that you have the ability to play at publishing something. And at the high end of that kind of thing you've got like being on your book committee or newspaper, right? Where you do have an impact on something that gets published, but like there's just something about and I I'm putting this so badly, but like starting with play of like this is my newspaper about our house. Or this is, you know, whatever you've ever we've all done that. And why do I say playing at?

Well, because you're not really, it's not really a newspaper. The stuff you recorded on Four Track is not really an album. The stuff that you typed up and wrote is not really a book because you're not the kind of person who gets to publish things. You and I'm not trying to make this about gatekeeping, but I am saying that the idea of like taking this Fortrax song about how girls don't understand me, and then like trying to compare that to Let's Epp One 3. It doesn't really make it like a funny little jokey college essay I uh I wrote is not James Joyce. Like I'm not I don't get to publish. So like there's but there is this weird in retrospect ineffable point where the playing at making things, playing at publishing things.

You can't, it's like it's like Syracuse is talking about when when they say separate the green part of the of the scallion from the white part of the scallion, and you're like, well, how do you define the transition from green to white? Same here. On the one end, I've got interviewing my late father for a non-existent radio show. And at the other end, where? I've got my band is putting out uh two two like what was it three c three cassettes, three singles, two CDs? put out a we're on our compilation for our label. Like you I mean, when that box of CDs comes back from Canada and it's got your song on it. Oh my God. It's or like mp three dot com being able to upload um my little acoustic pop songs to that.

Like well I don't know, I'm just try there's something I'm trying to get at something philosophical 'cause I'm realizing now as I sit here with you, Alex how much this m means to me and how much this has meant to me. And like this what what everything I so many of the things I do are an extension of interviewing my dad when I was six. Um and it's there's something really exciting. Do you remember the feeling? Well, I'm gonna I I want to locate a very specific feeling. I mean, I wasn't very good at college, but I did try hard. And at least at our college and probably at all colleges, like or schools, like at the end of the semester things get a little hectic. Because there's there's tests in some class, especially in sciences.

But in my case, it was mostly like a lot of written things were due. Usually including like a of some big paper that was due like the day before spring break or the day before like Christmas or whatever or Christmas break, you know. I just have this I have this recollection of finishing a paper for uh for Professor Berg Berggren and I remember printing it out on the Laser Rider in the Mac lab. and I I was setting it in Palatino on recycled paper and I was doing everything in a way that made me happy and I remember putting that in a folder in my backpack and walking across the bridge that goes over US forty one. And the bridge that goes over US 41, so I'm going from East Campus to West Campus at New College, walking over that bridge at f four or four thirty in the morning and smelling the Confederate jasmine.

This you know what jasmine smells like? No. Oh my god. Oh really super, super sweet. But like I remember crossing walking over that bridge. And again, remember now this is 1988, so no, I'm not listening to music. I'm not reading the Kindle. I'm just walking. I'm real I'm the that weird mix of like excited and tired and like relieved a little bit and scared about like, oh my God, I hope this is okay. But I remember walking across the bridge, smelling the Confederate jasmine, walking over to e-building or whatever it was, and dropping it into his mail slot. And it was I had this momentary sense of like because it's great. I'll never forget that smell or the how it how that felt. And putting it in his mailbox.

And then this is the this is where it gets interesting to me though, is then I would go like ah And then a second later I'd be like, hmm. Did you ever feel a little bit not depressed? But did you ever feel a little bit like. . It's almost like when a after a car accident is over and like you've got all the adrenaline and the adrenaline starts to go away and your back hurts. That's how I would feel after I handed in a project. Put differently, there's a very strong mix of physical and emotional and mental feelings that I associate with publishing something. One of them above all else is it just feels good to go, ah, because you get to hit the button and it goes up. So I know this is prelude and it's philosophical, but did did you have experiences like that of like D I mean like did you ever get something like published in the school paper or did you ever like get your drawing got a star on it and got put up on No, and again, I've been clear here.

It's nice to get congratulations for things. But I'm talking I'm talking less about success and more about personal publishing. How exciting it is to be able to make a thing the way you wanted to make it and then have other people see it and maybe even like it. Did you I mean d wasn't that a special feeling when you were little? Yeah, I have uh similar feelings about Same thing printing something out. Usually it was a paper or what my school would call a thesis, but wasn't really. But you It was at least like a big final paper on something that would be scrutinized for a big part of your grade. Yeah, and it's li it's, you know, thirty pages long and so long for high school. That's crazy. Oh my god.

I mean it it it was double spaced. Um but the feeling of printing that all out and it's slightly warm from the Oh my no. And and for me, when it was a I had a dot matrix printer in my Mount Dormrum, a Mac image writer, or sorry, Apple image writer. And so I would have to also tear tear off the frilly underwear on the sides. Ooh, that must have been a lot of things. And that was like such a big part of Enemy Interp, sorry, but like but like getting it out and it's all folded, interleaved, right? And then you fold over the little you know what I'm talking about, right? Uh line feed paper that's got the dots on the side. And so you'd fold it one way and then fold it back the other day and then gently tear it off.

And you do that on both sides. And that's and then tear apart the sheets after that. The like, you know, one from the other in the feed. But there's something up being done with that. And then, you know this feeling. You got it. You put it all together and you go. Yep. And all that all fits together into a little rectangle and you just officially finish something. Such a good feeling. It's a complicated feeling though. I would get melancholy after I finished things. A lot of the time. Even on 43 folders, I would put up something I thought was really good and I and I would get not melancholy is the wrong word, but like it was not a bad feeling, but it was like sort of a I don't know, it's a complicated feeling to like go like this is the thing I've decided to do and I finished I've succeeded at finishing the thing that's my job for today, but it's there's still then you've got like this little hole because I don't have this thing I'm obsessing about for better or for worse.

Yeah, there there was my moment of oh, this is done was always when you've put the uh stack of papers in a c like this clear envelope and then on the side you would uh like it was like y you almost like turn it into a a booklet, like you it would be in a plastic clear, full of things. I know exactly what you mean. The kind where you could slide the thing on the over the um spine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you would s Slide it over the spine. It was cool because it wasn't it wasn't stapled, it wasn't bound, it wasn't paper punched. And if it was like for example, if you had an editor later on in life, they could take off that slide off that spine and they'd have separate sheets that they could flip over like a person.

R right. And there was some finality to that, but then it uh propelled this momentum to walking upstairs to Mr. Cologne's class. and dropping those thirty pages into his inbox and him going, hey Cox. Now there's no better or for worse, you're done. You said you said, you know, you basically said, okay, Jeff, check my puzzle. Yeah, and th I would have the feeling then still of a limbo because yeah I I didn't know and uh the wash this feeling was shared amongst my classmates and we talk about it of being in paper limbo because we didn't know what our grades would be. And we knew that there were so many factors around what type of grade we'd uh get. Like, was it going to rain? And our teacher would be grumpy or Would he be hungover?

Like there's a lot of things. It sounds like you're still burning off adrenaline a little bit. Yeah. And then you have that the adrenaline gets to the point of anxiety. When you're waiting in class and there's the b gyantic stack of papers And uh Mr. Clojay is handing them back to people and you need to open the front flap to see your grade. usually color pink or blue or orange or whatever. And like there'd be the writing under I remember that so distinctly. There's the familiarity of your cover page and then the anxious unfamiliarity of like a grade in a circle or whatever. Yeah. And and the number or the phrase see me. Oh god. Oh my god. Sorry, sorry, you're not in trouble. I would vomit just straight up vomit.

No virtual reality required. I I uh ended up having a similar feeling when we would publish be because I ended up being uh uh editor in chief at the school paper and then it wasn't until I saw the like our our papers they they didn't mo it was all online but because our teachers were nice we still had it uh printed on, you know, that like new news Z type s stock and then seeing it that morning at school, there was again that anxiety and adrenaline, but then it tips over into that melancholy like as soon as you open it. And you're right, it's a complicated feeling. Mostly mostly I I mean honestly, like it's very positive, but to say it's only positive elides the very important point that Mixed feelings aren't always the sum of mixed feelings is not always bad, but the sum of mixed feelings is necessarily axiomatically complicated.

Yeah. That's why I you know also I really don't like it when people when people say that something was a roller coaster just because everybody says something was a roller coaster. If it wasn't a if they're not really talking about something that comports with the idea of a roller coaster, when people say, boy, this last week has been a real roller coaster, I think what they mean is like it's been a really tough and demanding and stressful week. It hasn't really been a roller coaster. A roller coaster would be something like, I would say a legit and really you use it however you want, but I would say like suddenly grandma was sick. Then grandma seemed like she was gonna die. And then grandma suddenly started talking and eating soup.

And then grandma got quiet again. I would call that a roller coaster. Yes. But I'm not talking about a roller coaster. I'm I'm talking about like a Harry Potter Universal ride of just like a lot of overwhelming things at once. And to try and summarize it as one adjective Is like I say d defin definitionally not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is, I mean, how about Christmas morning? Sorry I'm making this sad, but Christmas morning? Or like how about Saturday morning TV? After Fat Albert was off and now is gonna be like all like wrestling and news shows and stuff, I'd be a little sad when Saturday morning ended. On Christmas morning when the last present you ever have to get a little sad when you open I love Christmas.

So open like opening the last and all the presents. Opening that last present, like, didn't you feel like a little bit like, hmm, I guess the my the my favorite part of my favorite day of my Favorite thing in the whole year is over and it was so fun but now it's over. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I still get that way when I see m my nieces open that last press it's not like oh, I've got a candy presents forever. Yeah, it's like a big one behind the couch. And there's another couch. Keep looking. It'll never end. You'll be happy forever. You'll never be disappointed. I can do this. I can do I can do this. I can keep you happy. I I I felt the same way So much so much of my life. As a as a parent was spent trying to help somebody not become like me.

Anyway. Um You talk about that a lot. Well I mean I like I know that that all sounds like a lot of uh I don't know. Like I'm writing my memoir or something, but I I want to make a connection through the very visceral emotional feelings of You know, again I'm I'm of an age where like I'd never I never in a million years, apart from like playing a guitar, looking in the mirror, I never in a million years imagined I would be a rock star like the rock stars that I liked. It was completely out of my reach. I it w at a different time, maybe like I God, the the deeper pain was wanting to be a better writer. Like I knew I knew I was smart enough to know when I'd read writing that was good, but it was still so out of my reach and it took so many attempts over word by word, bird by bird, keep trying to get better at it, not knowing if I'm getting better at it.

g it that doesn't end. I still have that. I still the sentences I wrote last night to put on Mastodon Nobody here will ever be as interested in me in whether this should be a period, a semicolon, a dash, or a completely different piece of writing. Because that's what my brain does all day long. And this is why I say in this really pretentious way, that's why I am a fan, but I'm also a writer, because I think like a writer. Like I think about how I would word this. And like the thing that like this this incredibly ephemeral thing that was like yeah, you ever get a sweaty Instacart person where they really want to talk to you a lot and send you lots of photos? I I every text I write to somebody in Instacart, I want it to be the best one of those they've ever received.

I want it to be utterly ambiguous. I won't don't want it to be overfamiliar, but I I want want it to be the easiest to deal with. thing that they get today. And I sweat every letter of that. And that all comes, I think, from this whole like, well, no matter how hard I try. I mean let's go with let's go with some obvious examples. No matter how good I get at guitar, how good I get at guitar, I'm never gonna be an REM. No matter how good I get at writing, I'm never gonna be like Kurt Vonnegut. Like, you know, uh there's other numerous examples. I mean, I was in the school play when I was a senior. No matter how good I get at acting, which I was really not good at acting, like I'm I'm never gonna be Marlon Brando or whatever.

It doesn't you know what I'm saying That th there were two at least two worlds. There was the world of the stuff that I admired and on some shameful, deep level, aspired to. And over here was me printing out a newspaper once that was about my house. And that area, the green and the green and white areas of that onion in between are still very real to me. And so like when I finished that very good thing about Trying to let the person unambiguously know where to drop off the groceries. I could say, I'm not home, leave it outside. But I don't say that. I say, Darren, thank you so much for your great work today. T Could I ask you to leave leave the stuff outside our front door and I'll pick it up later?

Thanks and have a safe night. Or whatever. Like that's just off the dome. That's a first draft. First draft of something you write to the Instacart guy? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's not, I mean, like I can't keep up sometimes because they keep sending me empty shelves and I don't know why. But I care about every single bit of that. Do I care that it's perfect? No. I care that it's what I wanted. And when I record music or I do whatever it is, you know, whenever if it's a joke, I really. There's something existentially satisfying to me about trying until I think it's where it needs to be So the point of all of this, because this is all really important to me, I'm thinking about it a lot. I don't I mean, I don't know if I'm dying or anything, but I'm I'm at a point for whatever reason right now where I can look at that philosophically and see it for what it is.

Which isn't like being able to have a sight that people I hadn't met read, being able to have songs that played on the radio where I lived, these little small stakes things that that come out of m being a bored kid in the South. That stuff was incredible. The first time I, dude, Baconry 7 inches are up and on the wall here because the first time I held a 7-inch. That my band of 45, you know, a single, that my band made. We made the cover. We made the well actually Jason did both the work but like I always did the typesetting and the and the cover stuff you know for all of the stuff for our label and for our band but like whole but you know this little green thing that said Tom Foolery on it I can't even tell you how happy it made me, how satisfied to be able to hold that in two hands and look at it and go like, you know what?

I don't ever I don't need to be in Led Zeppelin. Like having an indie rock single that my friend Dennis likes, there will never be anything greater than that. If I can just not say repeat that, but if I can keep doing something like that on a scale that's sensible. I will be a happier person. I need to make these things. And that's why personal publishing is still thrilling to me. Including this, Alex, including this. We make this show. We use other people's stuff to get it to people. We use other people's stuff to like receive money on our behalf. We use a lot of other people's stuff, but this is This is our this is our thing. We made this. If if you don't like it, be mad at us. What could be more scintillating, more exciting, more like affirming about your agency as a human being than to say like yeah the single you're holding in your hands if you don't like it that's okay but I made it I love it and somebody else loves it and that is all I need to know to keep me wanting to make this thing.

I thought for a while well, I I didn't think so, but I was labeled as a perfectionist. uh f pre uh uh d severe mental illness stuff. Uh late and I remember wasn't nine and gave yourself an ulcer? Uh well up until the past few y years, really, um, I realized I'm not a perfectionist. I'm Similar to to what you said, I know it is not perfect. It will never be perfect, but and I don't even know if it's what I want, but I want my dentists to like it. Like I want those three people to S uh s think I am smart and clever or whatever I'm trying to do. I I I want to make dentists. I want the dentist to like me, but I would love most of all for the dentist to like me. I want the dentist to like me for the reasons that I wanted the dentist to like me.

I don't want the dentist to like me because they think I have a cute butt. I want the dentist to like me because I successfully landed that joke. Or like I guess when you're being real needy because I floss really well if you're basic. But isn't that part of it? Is like I wanna succeed however I succeed in the smallest way. it will if I don't do it on my own terms, it turns to ashes in my mouth. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That that's I mean I would get that feeling when we uh at uh cards we d do the m uh what people think of uh like comic conventions and and gaming conventions where I would usually make a show floor d uh documentary which was B but it was basically a very crude, like uh Billy on the st street sort of I mean not even Billy on the street.

Was it you know, letterman's stuff. Uh it it was either Max or Claire Friedman or or Jen Bain like interviewing someone. But I would be Just yeah, and I would be so good. And so I would be the uh the the camera person and the editor and being able to turn something around and make an entire crowd laugh, but get them to laugh at the parts I wanted because of the cuts and because of I mean, obviously like y like Collaborating with someone's joke in an edit was like one of my favorite things to do. But if someone would just be cute about it, there's a way to do that though where like you find the joke not the joke inside the joke, but you find your role visually with your ver your your access to your part of the storytelling, you find a way to get their joke and and either frame it or present it in a way that makes their joke somehow even funnier than it was.

That's that's that's so fun to do. And that's really fun to do after you've uh collaborated with uh with someone, but it's Also, like, hurts so hard when like someone will b laugh or like not even It it's almost worse when someone gives you credit for something you weren't trying to do or you didn't think was very good. I totally I totally agree. Like you you're not allowed to laugh at that joke because you just brought your own joke. That's not the one I was making. So bad on me for not succeeding at that. I I I would rather be a failure than a fraud is just kind of how I feel all the time. And Th that's why now I am just the w worst at at b uh publishing and w why I've become so jaded uh with what a lot of people make online is so few people have a dentist that they want to I wish I I I wish I could believe that if they found a dentist they'd try.

I I in my heart that's the most hopeful thing I can say if you had it but like you haven't learned to try because you haven't learned to care and there's no point in trying if you don't care. When you don't try, I can tell you you don't care. And if you don't care, I completely understand why you don't try. But like you if you're absolutely right. Everybody's got to find their dentists. I'm realizing I'm kind of holding caufielding right now. Good. But it's not. So I wish more people were. Uh well, it's but unfortunately it's not even like a theoretical type thing. There was a a great Wired interview with this guy who is a domain squatter and uh just puts up shitty AI stories on all of these websites and uh does total ad spam and stuff like that.

Yeah well and and he was I I don't want to say he was awesome, but he talked about how he knows that this is shitty, he knows that this is all crap, and he's just Trying to make a living. And I rather have those people yeah, yeah. Like the the people like the almo like Ali Abdal, like that I find his productivity stuff like super obnoxious. But the way he talks about like, oh yeah, no, I am just using YouTube as a way to do business. Like I am not cre like the videos I create, they're not videos in the artistic sense. This this is just a way to fuel s business, here are my margins of and here's how I get more make more money and has no sort of uh just I I mean I don't I I I want to say I respect that.

I don't unfortunately there was a productivity guru not long after I came on the scene who wrote a whole book about doing stuff like that. And I feel like it really was a big shit right in the middle of the community well that still bugs me to this day. And there's a reason I got I'm not gonna say any names, you know who I mean. And like when that book came out, especially like after we had talked and I, you know He's a nice guy, he's really smart, and he's really smart, but like that book was extremely corrosive. And saying that like low, I don't actually sit in a hammock all day. It took me more than four hours to do this, that does not mitigate the effect that that has. And I'm I'm not even doing the thing where I'm going like everybody's dumb but me.

What I am saying is that like if you spent whatever amount of money on that book was because you want to sit in a hammock too and you decide to start a pharmaceutical company in Indian white label your own supplements and not really care if it works. Before we ever get to like is that a good idea for people's health, like is that a good idea for your soul? And then you told other people to go and do likewise? That's the worst that's the worst kind of guru. That's I mean, what could be more toxic? This is what happened in Europe in the thirties. That's but that uh person the the a it those folks at least aren't Fr well, I I see I don't know. I think that he believed that just selling a bunch of shit and And then, you know, not having to think about money and being able to angel invest in companies like that.

See, but at the time when that book came out. it was again like like Europe in the thirties, it was presented as a populist movement. It was not presented as a way to become a rich douche. No no just be clear here. It was not about how to become it was not about how to become a rich. It was about like, hey, look at me I find all these angles that other people don't see, and I want to tell you about all these angles that other people don't see. Right? That's the and the pitch was, hey, I love to travel. And I would love to have a way to go live the life that I want to live without having to have a standard job. And I'm I feel the same way. Doesn't everybody feel that way? It would be nice to be able to say And but that wasn't too many leaps away from now I'm a rich guy who travels a lot.

You you're the sucker who bought into this system, now go and do likewise, is how it felt. Like pass this grift on like some kind of virus. And eventually we'll all have a passive uh income muse and we won't have to care about anything at all. But we'll all be so deeply ironic about the eight dollars we make a month that we won't even realize how unsatisfying our lives have become. Do you so you think that I I guess I was not around people who bought into that idea. It's an I know it's not all the same thing, but it's part of the same lineage. It's you know, in Ty Lambo, all that stuff. That's all part of this same lineage. The people who are straight up out there selling seminars on how to record audible books or how to find people to record audible books for that wonderful uh folding ideas video we'll find it for notes I mean it that that video is so fucking depressing to me Mm-hmm.

Yeah. It's a big thing. There's so many levels of grift to it and they all are stupid. And they don't really need to work. They need it's like the guy says, like, hey, why are you running away from the tiger? The tiger is faster than than you. So and you say, I don't I don't need to be faster than the tiger, I just need to be faster than you. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. And That's why the challenge was posed to to do something bloggy. Because no, it the reason because uh God, I hope this doesn't happen again. But but no longer are blogs or personal publishing uh through something you own yourself is is not very lucrative and it n and the g in fact the griftiness that the d is uh the descendant of all of the hammock stuff is like, hey, you can you only need to pay five cents for this stuff on the cloud to host your Squarespace site and you can sell your lion's mane pills.

Or like, hey, you just do you sell this stuff through the TikTok shop and uh everything is taken for uh care of it for you and you don't need to touch anything. You just need to find somebody else who will buy the powders. And you don't even need to care if they take the powders, let alone whether the powder is doing something. You're not there to make your life better with powders. You're there to sell powders to people who you can persuade to buy powders. Or to make them part of your downstream and have them selling powders to other people. Because every time you buy that book, you're creating another person who's going to go tell somebody about that book. Or whatever. And I don't mean to just beat up on that one guy, although I think I think as we used to say in the South, but I think he's okay.

And like things I've said about him in the past have gotten back to me and I don't regret it. I don't dislike him as a person. He's a really nice, really smart guy. I enjoyed the times we've met. I enjoyed reading his book. Um, but Personal publishing, and I'm trying to avoid blogging, like there's just well I didn't want to get make this negative. All I wanted to say was that it still matters to me to hit that button and and put stuff up. So Anyway, I think we're out of time for a long discussion of this, but um I played with Ghost, I did more things with Blot, I got back into Mars Edit. I um thanks to the latest versions of D uh version of Drafts, I've been working on how you can post a ghost post a ghost from inside drafts.

Uh looking at a lot of bloggy things. Yeah, so I started a ghost account. I didn't install my own cause yikes, but I I saw Matt Howey had done it and I do everything Matt Howey does. So um I'm playing with Ghost um and thinking about if that has any role in my future. And uh I think this needs to be a three-week challenge. It's already been a seven-week challenge, Alex. I think. It hasn't been. Well, I think it's a little bit more. We'll talk more about the actual like uh nuts and bolts. Well Angle. What you're calling a philosophical idea I think is much more practical than you're giving it credit for. Because I had that truly y you know, there was uh not everyone had has the like truly neurotic uh pathological anxiety about pushing that uh publish button but I right I had not even thought about that the thing you shared Yeah, it was in I think the the Yeah it was in the main episode.

No, you know what it was. It was at the very top of the after show where you tricked me. And you used the after show that I didn't I thought was just us talking. I was accidentally nice to you. Yeah, yeah. I only did it because I knew it would be on air. It's the only way I'm nice to anybody. When does this go up? Ugh. We gotta get the same bell. We need to get paired. You know what? I'm gonna go to Amazon and I'm gonna do a search for paired bells. That is not a uh close what's uh close well oh close harmony. Close harmony, there we go. All right, we're we're we're done raw transcript