Do By Friday
Episode 180 artwork
Episode 180 · April 2, 2020 · 01:10:52

180. The Toothless Husband

This week's challengeWatch Tiger King.
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Show notes

This week’s challenge: watch Tiger King.

You can hear the after show and support Do By Friday on Patreon!

Edited by Quinn Rose

Engineered by Cameron Bopp

Show Notes

Transcript

Tap a timestamp or any sentence to play from there · machine transcribed (mlx:mlx-community/whisper-large-v3-turbo), expect mistakes

AlexThis is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, watch Tiger King.

MerlinAre you on Skype? Are you on Skype now? I'm on Skype. Okay, good. I can hear you. Can you hear me? That's what we're talking on. are we okay it looks like how is how is that how is your the other account already here i'm so confused did i just call everyone i know it says two of three in this call god skype is a piece of

Maxshit it's really hostile it's so bad i have a question has anyone like uh is anyone out there like trying something different than skype for podcast recording is there people like trying to you know, I don't know, FaceTime or something like that? Mm-hmm.

MerlinYeah, yeah. It's just not as good? Yeah, hang on. Let me make sure I'm adding them. Okay, let me try. Yeah, people have tried lots of times. It's, I think the gating factor is that Skype is close to, it's like the Microsoft Word of communications, where like it's something you can explain to people who are strangers, and it's the least difficult way to do that.

MaxSee, I use Skype for podcasting because you use Skype for podcasting, and I just do everything that you do. I use Skype for podcasting because Leo Laporte used it for podcasting.

MerlinIt's viral. Why? I steal your jokes. Do you steal Leo Laporte's jokes? Pineapple. Of course I do. Pineapple. Pineapple. But no, I mean, I don't know a lot about this. I'm not as up as this on other people. You know, being where I am in life, age and stuff, I just, if it works, I don't screw with it. But, yeah, lots of people try different things. Part of it is that, are you interested in talking about this? Yeah, yeah. Okay. I think part of the thing is, yes, there's the simplicity and ubiquity of Skype. And Skype is terrible, but it is ubiquitous.

It's on every device, which is nice. Yes, that's true. So I think the thing is, in the past, I know I got lazy about Skype being a couple different things. On the one hand, it is the way that we monitor a conversation with each other. But via stuff like call recorder, it's also how we record the call. And having that all in one thing is handy, even though it doesn't always work the way we'd like.

But so I think that's kind of why it became the singularity. And so then the question becomes, well, what if we abstract this and say there's one way that we monitor each other and there's another way that we record, which does require a level of sophistication and potential for things to break. but I think that's how to be honest I think that's how a lot of people are recording shows right now is that they're listening to each other maybe even on a phone and then just recording locally I think but then there are lots of things

like I think it's called Caster is one. No I don't trust I don't trust that

MaxWell this also gets us into Zoom though See I'd love to do Zoom and we'd get on a little video chat with each other I think that would spice things up it would be very interesting

Merlinyou wouldn't do that? let's turn our cameras on to grant Skype permission to access your camera you need to go to Mac Preferences you can tell I use this all the time for example on political Twitter yesterday there was a guy getting very frustrated because well understandably hey look at you oh my god you're outdoors hang on I'll get my camera on just a second here security and privacy privacy tab I'm clicking I'm going to secure I am not groomed for this Max I am definitely not groomed for this

MaxOh, it's going to be very weird for Alex when they come on and we're both on video. Yeah, they're going to hate it.

MerlinOh, you will not have access to your camera until it is quit. Damn it. Okay, I'm going to restart the call. This is very important. Okay, be right back. I need it for my work. I need it for my work.

MaxHey! Wow, what is this depth of field going on here?

MerlinOh, I'm running a 50mm lens on myself. Oh shit, I don't like this at all. This sucks.

Speaker AThis really sucks.

MerlinGod, there's so many images of you everywhere. Okay. All right. So anyway, the dude on Twitter was saying, oh, this sucks. There's basically, so basically Zoom has been saying that their calls are end-to-end encrypted, which is apparently flatly untrue. Have you heard this?

Yes.

MaxWell, it's like they are like, it's end-to-end encrypted, but we have a different definition of that than everyone else in the world. It's a big asterisk.

MerlinYes. But apparently it's not encrypted end-to-end at all, even though, according to what I've read, it says all over their site that they do that. And then this guy's looking into the other options, And he's one of those guys that I really respect. He's like, I want a FOSS solution for this or, you know, some kind of free, you know, open source software solution to this. And like what I've got is I can do FaceTime, which is encrypted end to end, but not FOSS. Or I can do this other FOSS app that you have to pay for the stuff.

Anyways, it's just, I think there's a lot of grenades rolling around with Zoom now that so many people are using it. And they're kind of like Facebook in that they keep doing shit until they get caught. And they keep getting caught doing dumb shit. Remember the thing everybody talked about a few months ago where they're basically installing...

MaxOh, yeah. That was the same week I got hit with my asshole email app that I was using and Zoom, which I was... When Zoom started making the rounds, we were fairly early adopting. You know, I have a lot of video calls. I spend like 10 hours a week on video calls on a normal week. Just because all my partners are all over the place. So when Zoom came out, it was so much better than everything else. We were pretty early adopters.

MerlinWhat's going on? Did anyone tell Alex that we're like... I'm calling the four different handles I have for Alex in addition to your studio. So we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens.

MaxI'm having a hard time getting the right amount of espresso. I had too much and then I was feeling jumpy and now I'm crashing.

MerlinIt's worse than edibles. Oh, caffeine is awful. In the sense that, like you may not know, you won't know you've had enough until you've had too much.

MaxWell, I think I've said this before on the podcast, but to me, the goal, what you're doing is you're trying to get right in that sweet spot between having a headache because you're in caffeine withdrawal and then you could have too much coffee and now you have a headache because you're dehydrated.

MerlinYeah, or like in my wife's case, she's very sensitive. She gets headaches from things. Okay, I see her. She's muted. She looks like she's muted. Alex, turn on your camera, goddammit. We're doing this with a camera and we didn't tell you. I'm going to say, turn on your camera. Oh, Sandra. And I held down the shift key.

MaxI got this Marco box that my thing plugs into.

MerlinBut I don't know how to use it. I'm not a qualified. Hold it up. Hold it up.

MaxHold it up. I can't. Oh, wait. Here, I can do this.

MerlinOh, look at you.

MaxSee?

MerlinOh, you got the mute that doesn't work.

MaxYeah. See that? The Marco box.

MerlinThe Marco box. But is it a recorder or a DAW?

MaxIt's got two holes for the microphone to plug into, but only one of them is supposed to work. And then it's got all these little switches on it, and I just put them how Marco told me to put them, but I don't know how this thing works.

MerlinUSB Pre 2?

MaxNo, it's the expensive one.

Speaker AOh, the costly. The Marco one, of course. I got the Marco one.

MaxNow, I'm not qualified to use to operate this thing. I don't know what any of these...

MerlinNo, neither am I. My USB Pre, I just take pictures of the dip switches and send it to Steven and say, What should I change? I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know. I'm like a chimp at Chernobyl.

Okay, Alex. Is Alex here? Alex is not here. She looks like she's here with Muted. I see that. She's not responding to texts. This is not the show. This can't be the show. I'm going to post this smithereens video.

MaxI found a YouTube series that you might like.

MerlinOh, tell me. I love YouTube. Big fan.

MaxIt's on Vanity Fair, and the series is called Breaks Down Their Career. Are you familiar with this?

Speaker AMm-hmm.

MaxThis seems like some Merlin-ass content here.

MerlinAll of it. Down to the motion graphics of the timeline. I love it all. I love it all. Yeah, okay.

MaxYou know this. The one I'm watching right now is Rob Lowe Breaks Down His Career. Woo, boy.

MerlinLiterally. My body is a microchip. The microchip has been compromised.

MaxHe has been in some weird shit. I never put two and two together that that was him in Austin Powers. That's him in Austin Powers. Very weird that he's in Austin Powers, too. But also, some notable omissions from Rob Lowe's career.

MerlinOh, okay. Well, I've got one I discovered just this week. There's something that comes up occasionally enough in the Bim Bam canon that I wanted my kid to understand the bit. Okay? Okay. And so I went and I found something. And I don't know if you can watch a video. But this one might surprise you a little bit. Are you familiar with the morose modern Christmas song, The Christmas Shoes?

MaxOh, yeah. Oh, I know. I know all about Christmas Shoes. Who did the... There's the... Oh, this video is awful.

MerlinDo you remember who's in it? I don't.

MaxWho's in it?

MerlinRob Lowe.

MaxNo. No fucking way.

MerlinWe'll get a timestamp here.

MaxWhere is the Christmas shoes? Oh, it's the Patton Oswalt thing.

MerlinOh, there's that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just sent you the quote unquote official video.

MaxI think I sort of became aware of this because of the Patton Oswalt bit.

MerlinYeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good bit.

MaxBut I have seen it.

MerlinIt's a horrifying video. Anyway, if memory serves, I'm pretty sure Rob Lowe is in this video from, I want to say 2007. But that's exactly the kind of thing where you're like, what the fuck are you doing there? Like, what are you doing? Yeah, Austin Powers, what else?

MaxI think he is a guy who seems a lot like Chris Traeger. And if you emailed Chris Traeger and you were like, would you be in my video about Christmas shoes? You know, he'd say yes.

MerlinLiterally nothing would make me happier. Yeah, this is so bad. It's really bad. It's really bad. But I mean, there's certain things in the Mabim, I don't want to make every show I do about Mabim Bam, but there are certain things in their canon that it's useful to know about. I think Christmas Shoes is one, Live Like You're Dying by Tim McGraw comes up a lot. And so I'm trying to do, there was this amazing class when I was in college that I deeply regret never taking. This is a terrible thing to bring up on April 1st. But my favorite literature professor taught a class called Literary Substrata of the Wasteland.

And the first thing, of course, is you read the wasteland and talk about the wasteland and Ezra Pound. And you talk about everything related to the wasteland. And then you read every major work that is referenced. So you read a lot of Shakespeare. You read the Grail Myth book. You read just all of the different things. And I feel like I kind of want to do a class for that with Mbembem, where you just read up on everything. You go visit the Golden Corral that they went to on Christmas Eve after they visited their mother's grave, slicing meat off the hook.

This is not the show.

MaxHow are you doing? I'm doing all right. Yeah, me too. The tiger looking fucking ruled. That was the highlight of the week, Tiger King. I'm real excited to talk about Tiger King.

MerlinI got no time for criticism of Tiger King, buddy. I got no, I broke no truck. I have no sympathy for criticism of this program. I'm going to try to keep it positive. But everyone needs to watch this and enjoy it and not be terrible about it because it's a very important piece of work. It teaches us so much about our life and helps understand what it's like to live with people who live in Florida. It's a very Florida show. my mom has been to the big cat park and she had a wonderful time that's just down the road a piece

from her carol's place wait what my mom's been there it's just down the road that's you know she's been to the big cat park she had a great time tell her to go and check under the water cooler

Speaker Alook at the end of the leash you'll find a husband oh god god so good i want to unsee that

Merlincostume. I don't like it. So she went out and did some of her own research and started trying to figure out if that was photos from their wedding because she appears to be wearing the same dress. So my daughter is Googling, looking at Google images and showing me all this red yarn about how she's pretty sure that might be their wedding on the beach. I was like, that's a weird wedding photo. There's a lot of Halloween photos of them, it appears. It says Alex is in the call. It does. and says that she's paused. She's not answering texts, it appears.

I think I called every conceivable number. Should we call Alex on the phone?

AlexOh, don't do that. Oh! Oh my God, this is amazing! Hello. I am so mad. So, so mad. Why am I blurry? Why are you mad, Alex? Oh, I'm sitting here. I'm all ready for Dubai Friday. And Matt, she's like, oh, did you see the thing Merlin put on Twitter? twitter it's dear having hansen and it's covered by all the or it's just it's not a cover it's the original broadway cast and i was like yeah yeah yeah i'm gonna go watch it hadn't cried until then

oh boy what a time why are we all looking at each other where's max what's happening i cry i cry

Merlinevery time i cry every time and i and i especially cry at certain when they dissolve and they go they go there's the cute girl who sings the part by her bed and then there's the blonde lady who's looking really earnest i i've practically memorized the video i love it so much i'm so so mad and then

Alexi was like all right i'll hop in the call oh wait they're all on video i should probably not put on makeup couldn't good lord no no no uh but then i started crying again i don't know why how are you oh look at the blurry and the not blurry oh how are you doing that it's in uh sound and video or audio and video settings.

MerlinOh, wow. This is a new adventure. I'm so proud of you for doing this.

AlexSorry I'm late.

MaxHey, all you cool cats and kittens. Oh, my God. Welcome to Do My Friday.

Speaker AHey.

MaxHey, wait a minute.

Speaker AOh, now I'm blurred. Hey, look at me. Right, right? This is weird.

MaxI kind of like the video.

MerlinI think I might be really into this.

MaxWhat if we should get on a Zoom? Maybe we should do a Zoom conference call with Kevin and Jen next week.

MerlinI remember hearing that the 37 Signals people, I don't know if this is true, but I remember hearing a long time ago when they were always getting real aggressively, Tim Ferriss about all of their interesting procedures. Love Chicago. but they they just sit on Skype all day and it's all open they've been doing that for years and that to me is so George Orwell and so menacing I wouldn't want to look at you guys all day

MaxI know that I had a chat with I had lunch with Jason a while back and I was saying how much I hate Slack because for all the years that we've been using Slack I've never been able to sort of incorporate it into my lifestyle of receiving information. Like I know how to handle email. I know how to handle text messages and calls. Slack is just this like extra thing. And I could sometimes go three, four days

without ever opening Slack. And then I open it and it's like the world is ending. I don't know. It's very, I get confused by it. And I know-

MerlinIt's a lot to maintain. I feel like Desmond punching in the numbers where like, I just have to keep going to all these threads that I'm scared to leave because I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. and like I really I don't super need notifications about the anime channel on the incomparable but you know oh no magic Max no magic

Alexoh that was if you're gonna do magic for us at least do something that you know and entertain us for real

Maxmy gosh I'll do something in that maybe I'll do something in the afternoon anyway I know Jason said that oh I can show you all my

Merlinoh my god this is so exciting I can show you all my gestures okay so whenever I'm doing this gesture this is me being a not very good magician ready watch that's pretty good oh i hate it so i want to i want to have a trick that involves me rubbing my fingers and then imagine like a bird coming out of my hand that's what i'm doing oh i hate it

Maxi'll teach you one okay i have a good i have a good trick for some finger rubbins i don't rub fingers like that is it okay if i post a screenshot of this oh yeah yes the end the end of my uh story was uh i know jason mentioned that they like they don't sorry yeah they that's okay they don't do i know they don't do slack at 37 signals so they i think that he would i don't i can't imagine that they have some sort of policy like you have to sit on skype all day that that does

Merlinnot seem right well this was a long time ago and you know we're travels fast in this town i don't

Alexknow um the thing i don't like about skype is it's a great place to keep information second oh no the thing the issue with man if we ever release this video that lag is gonna be fun uh but the issue with slack is like people search for stuff all the time and i want people to have it in slack but like max will search for something in slack but i never ever want slack to alert max that i have sent him a message ever in the world but then it needs to to be there like i if only

we knew somebody we could bother at slack many many times like how do you bother one to make a podcast feature in an app that you really like i think we should do this did you just did you just

Merlinunintentionally say how we bother people to do that no okay because i think you just called out

Maxmatt howie but i'm not sure no no matt howie is canceled yes he can't even open his garage door

Merlinput alex's feature in slack slack is fun if you don't it's like it's like the way email used to be where you didn't have to check it all the time right and like you just go check it to be fine and then it becomes a source of anxiety and when you get on a slack and then more slacks and there's more channels and you get added to the slack and then you know add here and like all that stuff it's like i get why you do that if you're like the new york times but for like you know casual slacks

Maxit does feel like a lot of work are you guys still uh compulsively reading a lot of news and worrying about the virus or are you have you like gotten into some sort of like uh virus concern routine are you like are you like settling in on like a like an appropriate level of anxiety

Alexwhen my alarm goes off I set a timer for 30 minutes in which I compulsively look at Twitter Reddit and you got me back on the Apple News because I feel like that's what normal people are seeing so I want to know what the normals you know what the normies are thinking

Maxdo you want the most normie news the most normcore news source there is

AlexUSA Today

MaxDrudge Report go to drudgereport.com if you want to know if you want to know how America, what America thinks is happening in the news, you're going to go to drudge report.com.

AlexOh, okay.

MaxThat's, that's my opinion. That's my hot take.

MerlinThat's like a Bloomberg terminal. I think he's proud of how this looks.

MaxYes.

MerlinYou know, like Bloomberg terminal people are really pumped about how it's hard to use.

MaxIt's funny that you mentioned that this is another Jason Fried thing that I share with him is we both think this is like an incredibly well-designed and effective website.

MerlinYou can find what you're looking for. Yep.

MaxIt loads instantly.

AlexI don't mind it. Max, yesterday

Merlinwas in some ways the first day that the enormity really landed on me, and it sucked. Oh, interesting. I was really... Well, the way I was trying to articulate it to my lady friend was that maybe it was the Evan Hansen video that was definitely part of it, but I got kind of emotional yesterday. I did watch. I had to tell my Echo to play Fox News on MSNBC and then it read that back to me and I was like, oh dear.

And I watched the press conference and, you know, it was, on the one hand there was the fake Trump seriousness that, you know, because go back to his inauguration address, right? You remember how dark that was? It was like somebody was doing a rewrite of Sin City and then, you know, and then of course he got all back into being Trump, but the enormity of, like, it really landed on me, the 100 to 240,000 deaths conservative number if we do everything right really after so anyway the way i was trying to explain this was that i i felt so much constant like waves of anxiety that i haven't had time to

settle on any one thing to be anxious about since this started and where we've mostly been okay we us you know but like it really landed on me yesterday and it made me desperately sad to be really honest and vulnerable it made me incredibly sad and my afternoon was uh really rough that was the first day for me.

AlexImagine if you had spent the morning talking to your grandmother, your mother, and then your soon-to-be father of a brother. That sounded very Chinatown. I was talking to my mom, my grandma, and my brother, and then I watched the Evan Hansen video.

MerlinChinatown the movie? That's me right now. Chinatown the movie or Chinatown for Souvenirs?

AlexWhat are you talking about? No, no. Not a racist. Not a racist parody. oh all right yeah

Speaker Ano no

Maxwow marilla's got all kinds of props here oh my god

Alexoh we're not gonna describe that one i'm not gonna do that not gonna do oh that's a nice lovely little that's my rubber bamboo yeah that's gonna be some symbolism there go ahead go ahead go ahead so alex continue no i'm just in the midst of that this moment i suppose like it's gotten to the point where uh like members of not my immediate family but like a few aunts and uncles have it and uh nobody's been hospitalized yet but it's getting yeah well i'm almost 30 and like

my family i hope so they all are also polish yetis who live a long time usually usually uh so it's it's been super weird. It's like having everybody having a really bad sinus infection at the same time, except we could die. Like it's, yeah, it's weird. I don't know. How about you, Max?

MaxOh, I feeling a little bit getting a little feeling of normalcy back, I guess. Or like, I feel like I'm like getting a little routine in my day.

MerlinAnd at least there's a groove. Monday was the first day I felt like we're getting into something like a groove for now.

MaxYeah. I, you know what? I don't know if this is something that I was thinking or if I saw this on Twitter or whatever, but this is a good way to think of it, which is, do you guys remember 9-11, like the day of 9-11, like how it felt and where you were and all that kind of business? to me this whole thing has the fee it reminds me of how 9-11 felt to me but not in the way afterwards of like when everyone was scared and then everyone came together and we were like we're

gonna kill those fucking terrorists or you know none of that stuff i mean like literally the day

Merlinof 9-11 and i have this yeah like they're like we're there have there are still so many more we don't know how many more shoes are gonna drop today except except it's three except it's three

Maxweeks of that you know one of my most clear mem i definitely have a a better recollection of the timeline of 9-11 playing out in my high school than like you know veronica and my peers because i we got into a fight about this recently about like what where we were and how that school handled it and then we like went and looked at the actual timeline of 9-11 and my version of events was corroborated but i have this very clear memory of passing a ben from one of my partners at cards

Merlinin the hallway and we walked past and it was sorry uh point of information how old are you at this

Maxpoint i will this was my freshman it was the first or second month of my freshman year of high school oh god wow it was early in my very early in my time at high school right september is pretty much like the beginning of the school year right yeah yeah you would still you'd still be settling into this uh new world oh yeah that new world oh yeah so i remember passing ben in the hallway and this was after the both towers had been hit and fell and they had sort of kept us in our

classrooms and at some point they released us to go about our day but you didn't do anything you just sat in different classrooms and watched the news basically and they had released us to shuffle about from room to room according to you know our normal schedule and i passed ben in the hallway and everyone was sort of had their heads down it was very quiet and i ben and i stopped to talk and i was like i was like this is probably a pretty big deal right i was like this is this is important right and ben's goes yeah yeah i'm pretty sure this is like a big thing that's happening and

we're both like oh yeah okay that that checks out at this point we're talking about one plane one

Merlintower oh no no both towers had collapsed you're talking about like like multiple oh okay both towers that seems it seems like a big deal seems like a big deal but i i'm just saying like you're

Maxin high school like i don't know like everything on the news panics about everything right so we pass each other we're both like yeah i think this might be pretty important news event that's happening pretty big pretty big deal but like it had that kind of a feeling of like yeah i think this might be things might be different after this i don't know man i'm getting the feeling this might be a pretty important situation. You want to get some pizza? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like, I don't know. It's like, what are you supposed to do?

It's like, yeah, I think this might be actually, I think this actually might, you know, really affect my life in some way. This might affect me. Yeah, me.

Speaker AMe, Jerry.

MerlinMe, Jerry.

AlexIt did immediately affect me because I was supposed to go to Toys R Us after school to get some Digimon toys. Because at that point, what was I? I was nine? Eleven?

MaxI was nine. You could not write a character of Alex in a sitcom.

MerlinDid you know I do this a lot when I'm recording? Can you see what I'm doing? I kind of like, I do this.

MaxI look like some kind of Christopher Guest character. At some point in the podcast, I'm going to get bored.

AlexOh, I do that too. I'm like...

MaxAre you going to Biden out? I do this. Yeah, I'm kind of Biden out. I'll tilt the mic over. I'll take a little snooze. Alex will send me to take a little nap in the studio sometimes.

Speaker AIn fact, chewing gum came in your mailbox. Delivered by a little baby. Just put it in the box and you can get your gum out.

MerlinWhere the fuck is Joe Biden, by the way? That's when they knew how to make a catcher's minute, I tell you what. He's running for president and he pops up in a rumpus room twice a week and it's like Biden out.

AlexI really thought he was dead. Like genuinely was like he or at least like he was on his deathbed. And when he showed up, I was like, huh.

MerlinI'm still getting reports. So this is definitely one of those, Max, to get to your point. This is definitely one of those times where I'm not entirely sure how even data is making things better for me. So it's one thing to say like, oh, hot takes. What's Jmart have to say today or whatever and all that bullshit. But there is the thing of like I go and I look at the data that's out there. And there's some very good websites that everybody knows about. But like that Washington website that they talked about at the press conference is one I've been following for a few days.

We'll put it in show notes. But there's a site you can go to that will show you the curve for the U.S. and for each state based on where we are today. And it's harrowing and very well done. It's really good data viz. But then there's also one where you can go, and it purports to be information. I don't know how the fuck they did this. Based on, I think, aggregate cell phone usage that shows you how well people are social distancing. And, you know, I haven't looked at the methodology, but like, you know, California's got a C because on the one hand, San Francisco and all the local counties have an A- in terms of how well we're doing that.

But then there's a ton of states that are getting straight Fs. Ditto in Florida. My mom is in a D- county, living in an adult congregate living facility, being fed a heavy diet of email forwards, Facebook, Fox News, and talk with other Trump friends. and you know i don't want to overwhelm her or freak her out but i'm also trying to like i think a lot of us really underscore how important it is if you can to you know stay inside etc but i'm also

now monitoring reports about like how my my aunt who's got dementia you know they live in tennessee and my aunt's in a care facility and my uncle can't even go see her and it's just like and then And like you say, Max, then the reports are now finally popping up of how it affects me, Jerry, like my friends, my people I know. And it's really fucking stressful just on a personal basis.

MaxHey, hey, thanks for... Did you guys see this? Did you guys see this thing that's been going around Twitter? I think I saw it on Cocky, but it's called... Where's the fuck? Where's the thing? Technics GEO? Yeah, it's like, look how quickly this one group of spring break kids on the beach spreads coronavirus.

Merlinyeah right there was something like oh there's the one thing of the kids who came back on the chartered plane to austin and like was it 28 out of 70 kids on the plane brought it back

Maxyeah like that among the many things i don't like about this well should they how are they

Alexhow do they have this exactly information that's what i i've definitely seen this map before and i thought it was just kind of uh it wasn't from the twitter account i just assumed it was like

Maxa projection and it was something no this is real cell phone pings or something oh yeah okay but but

Alexyeah how are they getting it though like yeah i don't understand i don't understand i think it

Merlinmust be some kind of aggregate like tower triangulation data something generic like that

Alexdoes that make sense yeah that's upsetting like you i don't know this this website looks like uh something that like an AR video game.

MaxThey use cell phone location data.

AlexYeah. Yeah.

MaxOh, it's anonymous trove. So here's how I think this is how it works. It's aggregated at the advertising ID level. So you know how when you open an app or you go to even a reputable website like, you know, the fucking New York Times and it has those JavaScript ads that make the page take nine minutes to load. those are collecting your location data and and basically selling it to this company yeah

Alexi'm just surprised i keep thinking what is this company doing for evil like this just seems like a really what else does tectonics do it says it says they're it says they're contracting with the dod so that's that's cool oh great cool uh here's another one that makes me that here's another

Maxweird, weird, like, oh, I think this might be a big deal thing is, have you noticed that when you go on Amazon, there is some weird shit that is starting to be sold out? I don't mean like, oh, it takes extra long to ship. I mean, it's gone. You cannot get it. Like what? What'd you notice? Well, I had a moment weeks ago, this was in February, where I was in LA, and this was when the first case came to the US in Seattle, and it was a big, starting to be a big news story, and I was with Alon from Exploding Kittens,

And Jordan and some of my friends in LA. And we were talking about it. And I was like, do you think this is a big deal? And Jordan and I were like, nah, it's probably not. It's like, it's going to be like swine flu or something. Like, I don't know. Like these things always are get under control before it's, you know, global pandemic. And Alon goes, I think this is the big one. Like he's like, I'm very concerned. And Alon's a really smart guy. And so that made me worry. And I go, why do you say that? And he goes, well, I was just, we left like a couple of days ago. we like came back from our Hawaii trip or something and I went to go get like hand sanitizer like not

for coronavirus reasons just for like travel reasons and he goes there's no more hand sanitizer you cannot get it in the greater Los Angeles area and I was like that's not right I was like I think that's what economists call a leading indicator yeah and I was like I was like oh on there can't not be hand sanitizer and he goes go look he goes maybe you can find it I couldn't and sure enough I stopped at a CVS before I got on my flight a couple days later and I'm telling you no hand sanitizer in that store and I asked at the pharmacy you guys still have hand sanitizer and they laughed at me and they're like we haven't had hand sanitizer for days

and I was like oh boy that is chilling I don't like that well now I've noticed in the last couple of weeks I've started making a little list sometimes you go on Amazon you go look for something and here's some of the weird shit that I've looked for from my own house on Amazon that is gone, sold out

Alexwebcams sold out cannot get a webcam okay that that seems normal of course those are sold so

Merlinso that could be could that be a combination of high some higher demand but also much lower supply

Maxi think it's that there's it's that the global economy has guessed you know in order to have webcams available to ship people have to have decided in probably in october to make more webcams you don't just like make a webcam right it's like there's so many parts and assembly

Merlinit's not like it's not like a ventilator it's it takes work oh yeah you can't just slap that thing together yeah exactly no no it's hard it's complicated and uh sorry sometimes sometimes i do this thing where i'm like you know you know the bit that they do on snl with uh don and eric and eric is always like watching don jr and like impersonating what he's doing whenever i watch a Trump press conference, I unconsciously start playing the accordion and making circles and doing this. And I'm trying to, he also does this fake Sondheim thing.

I'm sorry, listeners, you won't be able to see this. If you, when Sondheim is talking, oh God, he's so great. Sondheim's talking, he does this thing. And when he wants to make his point, he goes like this. So what I'm doing is I'm turning at a very sexy angle. And he's got like a funny little eye and he's so cute. He's like a stuffy. And then he does this thing where he turns his hand and his finger and he makes this point like Zoom, like that. But Trump does that thing too sometimes. When he gets real mad, his little hands get real close together and play a tiny accordion like a concertina,

like a French sailor. Watch the accordion hands. Alex, give me accordion hands. Let me see accordion hands. Oh, there you go. And then he does this. But then he starts, sometimes he does this. He does a half Sondheim.

MaxHe's got a furious little turtle. so i i think it's just that everyone needs a webcam all of a sudden because they don't have a webcam at their house and they need to be on video calls all day oh duh okay we i'm sorry i

Merlinfixated on i'm in my head i'm thinking security cam but i see what you're saying you're talking about like something that would let you zoom no i mean like i googled like webcam because like

Maxi have one but veronica also needs one for for teaching right so anyway it's just weird there's You know, I guess the why is it weird? Well, let me go through my list and then we can talk about why I think it's weird. Yeah, go. A soap dispenser. I just mean like, you know, the thing you'd get at like the OXO soap dispenser at Target. Like the little thing that holds liquid soap that you put on your... Pumpa pumpa?

Speaker AYeah, a pumpa pumpa.

MaxGone. Can't get them.

Speaker ANo more soap dispensers.

MaxA soap dish. You know, the little thing that holds a bar of soap? Gone. Gone dish.

AlexYeah.

MaxA soap. Oh, a brush. Like a bottle brush. I was trying to get a bottle brush because I find myself, I'm sure like everyone in the world, I find myself doing a lot more dishes all of a sudden. A lot of dishes. You guys doing a lot more dishes? A lot of dishes, a lot of cooking, a lot of cooking, a lot of dishes. Yeah. I'm eating every meal at home. So I'm doing a lot of dishes. So I went to go buy bottle brushes. Gone. No bottle brushes.

This one I wasn't buying. Someone else mentioned it to me. Free weights. You know, weights that you lift for like. For body. Gone. Free weights. Gone. I went to go buy surge protectors. There's some surge protectors on Amazon, but the good ones with like a built-in USB port, gone, can't get them. Probably because everyone's, again, at home all day and they realize, hey, I really need a surge protector here. They had the same thought I did. They went to get one. They're gone. Anyway, I don't know. It's weird to me because, you know, we make so many sort of human sacrifices to the volcano of capitalism in so many ways in our society.

It's called Krakatoa capitalism. Krakatoa capitalism. something but like we need another virgin you're hearing it very i could get into like metaphorically what i mean about that of like you know whatever but i mean you're literally hearing people say now like hey we got to get these old people back to work and some people are gonna have to die and that's what it's gonna take to keep those gears turning yeah come see come saw you know yeah yeah but we make so many like human sacrifices and and why it's because when you why what is in it for

you like why would you put your life on the line for this system and it's so that when you google webcam you could buy a goddamn webcam you're supposed to have that's the whole promise thanks krakatoa buck buck the whole promise of this thing is that when you have something that you want some frivolous thing that you want. You can have it right away.

And you can have a good one at a good price and that is supposed

Merlinto be... Maybe same day.

MaxOh, yes. Some sort of peasant should give it to me and yeah, it's like... I require a webcam. Yeah, and someone brings it to my house and they do a contactless delivery so I don't have to be aware of the labor involved in bringing it to me even. But it's like it's so upsetting now that the human sacrifice goes on and I can't even get the sort of basic thing that capitalism has offered me of some fucking canned beans in the grocery store

Merlinyeah you're cucked car yeah somebody's getting fucked here yeah yeah who's getting fucked if you know if you look around if you look around at a google meeting you don't know who's getting

Speaker Afucked it's you i'm trying to find other things here yeah i agree uh when it's got these if you're

Merlinlistening to this podcast look to your left look to your right one of you one of you one of you is getting fucked one of you would be in the movie paper chase i mean i've literally been trying for

Alexa co-worker I've been trying to get Max an iPhone for one week and even with which I thought you know through like people aren't making big purchases and I was talking to our business rep maybe I'm not supposed to share that I don't know it's like no people are buying extra phones because they're worried like if I break it I'm not I'm just not gonna have a phone I'm like oh shit that makes sense I guess that's upsetting so now I'm like should I get another phone

Merlinyeah you're right you're right though it's almost like learning how a sous vide. Like all of the old rules don't apply in a lot of ways. They don't apply in the way that they're used to and that are easily, consistently applicable. And I... This is the part, boy... Here's the thing. Like we're in pretty good shape. So we do stuff like we have historically ordered delivery food. We order Prime Now. We order, you know, whatever. We do the things. And we're in pretty good shape and it's getting difficult. What is it like for my

mom because we don't talk about it a ton but like what are old people doing to get milk right now in my mom's case uh i don't want to say too much i'm in fairly recent steady contact with her but you know just try to check in don't die i can't come there please don't die um but like public's like a lot of stores the the cool florida chain uh they have the old people hour where you can come in early. But even with that, there's this one thing that really sticks in my craw right now.

We've got to talk about something else. But the part that's still driving me a little bit nuts is that I still, I'm sorry, I talk about this on every fucking show right now, but I still feel like the message on why we are doing social distancing is very unclear to normal people. And I said this before, but they cannot make the connection between, I need to stay in my house because for leaps, I don't want old people, including ones I love to die, or vulnerable people or just people. And I feel like the message has been framed in a way,

in almost like a Lakoff kind of way, has been framed in a way that's very easy to dispense to a certain crowd, but it's lacking the clarity about the important part and what it's accomplishing. So what people hear is, oh, they're taking my guns away. I'm not allowed to leave the house. Fuck you. I'm an American. Toyota trucks or whatever. Like, fuck it. I'm going to go out and do my thing. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, the closest I've gotten to like this really being understandable is this.

The reason your kid can't have a play date is because we need to keep families separate from each other. If you encounter, let's call it another family unit, when two people from two family units encounter each other, that's where the danger happens. That's what happened in China. So what I need you to understand is you can't be in a group with other people. You can't. So, right? So, like, it's okay. But people hear that as, like, oh, I can't go to the park. Yes, you can go to the park, but you've got to stay way the fuck away from other people. Like, okay, so I'm a little guy. I'm 5'9". This is my arms.

Your arm width. Look at this. Your arm width is just about your height.

Speaker AYou see this? It's my hand. Look at that. It won't even fit. It's so big. Look at those chunks.

MerlinThat's less than six feet. so what I'm trying to say to you is it's not that you can't go to the park it's not that you can't walk out of your house they're telling you these draconian rules because you're so fucking stupid about understanding what we're trying to accomplish sorry what we're trying to accomplish I love you so much America what we're trying to accomplish is you've got to stay away from strangers full stop like way further than you think and what they hear though is the government's cracking down and I'm not allowed to leave my house fuck that nobody tells me when I can go to Publix and I worry do you know what I'm saying though

doesn't it feel like the message is a little bit muddled and there's all the whole wartime footing, which brings us right back to the whole, the terrorist win, if you don't go to the store kind of thing. And it's like, the message is so muddled.

MaxWell, I hate to, I hate to like, uh, uh, bring the, like, I know we, we, we have a lot, I'm sure we all have a ton to say about it, but like the, the challenge this week was watch the tiger King. And I could not help, but think watching the tiger King documentary about this crazy guy who keeps the tigers, uh, that what you're saying, Merlin is like there is something about the American identity that when there's that guy who goes fuck that rule like I can have a tiger if I want I myself cannot help

but root for that guy like I can't help it

Merlinbecause you like you like you'll always choose the egg over the wall oh I don't know I mean no no no I'm agreeing with you you always pull for the underdog you said so

MaxI guess but like did you find yourself similarly compelled like intellectually like I don't like anything about this guy, about Joe Exotic. But I just could not help. My brain could not help but kind of like him and kind of view him as a protagonist.

Speaker ALike, I just, I couldn't help it.

MaxI couldn't help it. I was a little bit sad when he got in trouble. I know. I just, and there's something about his, I don't know, man, but I just, there's something in my brain where if you want to understand Americans getting upset about being told, hey, you have to stay inside, and like you said, Merlin, failing to connect those dots of here's how it affects grandma and grandpa,

you know, like if you go outside, your peepaw's going to die. Go make a little memory palace in your brain, and imagine that you're trying to explain this to Joe Exotic, and he's going to say, I'm not going to fucking stay inside.

Speaker AYou come in here, and you try to take Mad Tiger's away, you're going to face this.

MerlinAnd he does not know how to handle a pistol. I fired a gun exactly once in life. And he doesn't even do the... Here's the thing you're supposed to do. Visual. You got this cup here, and then you place that in here for steadiness. You don't do this.

Speaker AWhat's he doing?

MaxHe's fucking Yosemite Sam. I don't mean to dwell actually with you, but you should absolutely not hold a pistol like that. But what he's doing... Well, no, what he's doing with a shaky,

Merlinlike something he saw on Law and Order.

MaxWhat he's doing is called sweeping the gun, and he will point it. That's what it's called. And rule number one of the sort of firearm safety is do not point the gun at anything that you don't want to destroy. Every gun is loaded.

MerlinNever point it at something you don't want to kill right now.

MaxExactly.

MerlinAnd he is fucking pointing it at the cameraman. Don't you know how a Beretta works? Don't you know how a Beretta works? If there's not a clip in the Beretta, it won't shoot.

Alexoh man we gotta talk about that because maddie and i have a big disagreement about what happened

Maxin that situation oh he is sweeping he is sweeping that gun all over the place he's pointing it at the cameraman he's pointing it at his staff he's pointing it as his toothless husbands i love you all right merlin this was your challenge could you want to give us a little bit of setup and give us the spoiler parameters, although I do want to talk in the after show, I do want to talk about the whole show.

Speaker AYeah.

MerlinBoy, this is going to be so disappointing to people, because it was all about sadness and ranting, and then now we're going to... Yeah, so... But it's okay to

Alexbe sad. Alright, go on.

MerlinSorry, dig down challenge. Here we go. Ready? And now we're happy. Challenge this week is to watch the Netflix, a very special limited series of diggity seven episodes called tiger king and uh the specific assignment in the new rules that we're following is that the you have succeeded succeeded at this challenge if you watched s1e1 it is my belief that there's not a single person out there who watched just s1e1 it's worse than potato chips uh you have to watch them all like pokemon uh and so that was the

challenge and uh and uh boy i've watched all of them we've we've watched it all the way through and then we jump around and before we watch anything else it's like an appetizer we'll watch a tiger king and like in the last like before we go into like watching oh what's the what's the addison spinoff she's watching now alex private practice i mean i don't know

Alexno it's not private practice private practice private practice yeah that's it but before we

Merlinwatch before we watch something else we'll be like oh you know why don't we just let's watch guys, let's treat ourselves. Let's be bad. Let's watch episode two of Tiger King. Because we're ending so good.

And so just the, there's absolutely no need for this because, but we'll just save this for the historical record. The log line is that this is a show that sort of ends up being presented as a real crime documentary. But at the heart of it, it's a lot of extremely colorful characters that are directly or tangentially involved in the wildcat breeding display trafficking.

But that doesn't even get you anywhere near what's happening with the most insane cast of characters and situations you'll see this year.

MaxI've said before, in a great documentary that really sticks in your memory, there's always one of those moments where you go, I can't believe they got that on film. I cannot believe that when that one moment happened that the camera was rolling and you go, what serendipity right like that's uh think of like i don't know whatever your favorite documentary is and there's always that one moment where it's like holy shit tiger king is every two minutes you're like how was this not only you're not thinking only how did it happen the whole thing is how did it happen how did it happen how did they get a good shot of that with audio yes that's

Merlinthe whole alex that's the whole reason i initially put this in front of you because i know your interest in the nuts and bolts of and i didn't want to say anything about my own thoughts at the time but I'll just quickly say here I mean I don't know again I got no time for criticism of this sorry it was exquisite and I'm sorry if it didn't do literally everything you wish it could do but it did what it did very well if you stop saying that this is a documentary about animal abuse instead say it is a study of American

characters I mean there's so much about American like why can't you just enjoy this for being a thing about American characters because does it have to be about saving the tigers dude i'm not allowed to leave there's not a lot of tigers i can save right now can i have a month can i have one month before i'm expected to suddenly become a big cat activist can i have that please um but here's why i said that alex because as i'm watching it and it's going along even in the first especially even in the first episode i'm like wait a minute so we know how this ends such as the film ends they've got updates into by you learn by the end

updates on people up to, I think, December 2019. So when they talk about...

AlexThere's stuff in the film. There's footage from 2019. That turnaround. Oh, my God.

MerlinBut a lot of that stuff with Miles Sazerac talking about stuff. The magician from Bob's Burgers, who also has a sex cult. He's so Miles Sazerac. But, like, Alex, you've got this very, very old footage. You've got this recent footage. And then you've got all this liminal footage from the time when shit was going down. And you're like, okay, well, who shot that? Is it the film dude? Is it the smoking man from TV? The Bill O'Reilly guy? What's his name? You know the guy with the hat and the cigarettes? Did he shoot that? Well, wait a minute. I thought all his footage went up in smoke.

How did they get all of this footage? You know that Joe had people shooting him, like filming him all the time. But that was the first thing that really hit me. It was like, wow. They knew this story. How the story begins, such as they'll tell it. They know how it's going to end. And that gives them so much ability to tell this with the most amazing cliffhangers and like introductions of characters five episodes in where you're like, how did you find another weirdo to be the person we're interested in this?

MaxIt's incredible. I can't. I'm trying to think of how I'm going to limit my comments to only the first episode. I don't think I can do it. I think I kind of got to talk about the whole thing. I don't know. But we could probably do it in a way where we don't ruin it for people.

AlexI well I also think at this point um remember when I said that the only thing that made me sad that Game of Thrones uh the the only thing that made me sad about Game of Thrones ending is like oh we're never gonna have a thing where we are all watching this uh I was totally wrong that happened with Watchmen and now this is happening with Tiger King so I don't think it's quite a I think we got under the wire in terms of spoilers but the the other thing I was telling Merlin about well I've I've said this a million times.

When you're making a documentary, you really don't know what the story is going to be. You know the story you want to tell. And the ability for them to pivot that story so quickly. Because the footage was shot, like what they shot, it seems like from only 2017 to 2019, which is a crazy short time, which is the other impressive part. Just the data management of it all to get, you know, super, super nerdy. But I mean, wow, they figured out that this was a story not about tigers, but about humans really, really quickly.

And I know people have worked on a documentary for a decade and they still don't know what the story is. They just know that there's something good here. And we could tell you every single crazy thing that happens in this. And it's still you can't comprehend it until you see it. and by that I don't mean like you can't understand what's happening but well actually yeah I don't think you could

Merlinit's sort of like the way we talk about so like you know back to your shows you mentioned like Game of Thrones yeah you don't want to give stuff away you don't want to say who gets shot on a toilet and stuff like that but I do feel like with Watchmen I kind of really did feel like you could tell somebody exactly what happened in that but it's not the same as experiencing it what's that phrase Alex there's that great phrase where you talk about saving it in the edit like where you're going to like the way you're going to tell this You're either going to save it in the story or save it in the edit. You know what I mean? Isn't there a phrase, something like that, the way you approach it? Or you just shoot everything you can and then figure out what you can make out of what you've got.

Or you might decide to cut Cochran out of a season suddenly, and that's really weird. Wasn't that a thing? Didn't they cut Cochran out of this season? Out of this season?

MaxDid you see that video? That was Photoshop. Oh, is that a bit? It was a meme. so the meme is like if you're going to get the best winners together on Survivor where's Cochran and also Jeff loves Cochran but I think Cochran just didn't want to do it

Merlinthat was a dumb example

Alexhe said he's never going to play he wanted to win and he'll be a part of shows and stuff but he's like nope I'm out I don't blame him

MerlinI don't blame him but that's the thing though with Cheer for example they obviously couldn't have known how that would turn out And there is, you know, there's just all the running around that you've got to do. I don't know. I just felt like somebody really organized this in such a way. I guess what I'm saying is if you haven't watched it, you should. And if you've watched the first one, watch them all. Unless, as our friend Jen, I suggested Jen not watch it because I know she's self-described as somebody who's sensitive to animal violence.

Speaker AWas it? Yeah, I guess. I mean, I was.

MerlinJust the scene in Ohio. The scene in Ohio after the escape that Miles Sazerac talks about where they shoot all the animals, they just gun down all the animals that escape from that.

AlexYeah, I had not gotten to that part yet. But, I mean, if you think about, I mean, this isn't a spoiler for real life. There's more tigers in captivity than there are in the wild, which we've kind of done, or at least I think we're approaching what we're doing to large wild cats that we did to dogs. Like we're kind of breaking them into the point where they they're not nearly domestic.

But in 100 years, we're going to have like gigantic tigers that are still I mean, they're still going to eat people. But they're people are going to have they're going to have a misspence.

MerlinLike really, really, really big. How big? How big? How big are they going to get?

AlexI would say a cheetah size. 40 feet. No, no, no. I'm sorry. We're the domestic, the tiger, like wild Siberian tigers that are.

MaxYou mean when you say we're going to have, do you mean I can have?

AlexI think you're going to be dead.

MaxI kind of, when this thing started, I kind of, when they were talking about that you can get a tiger for like 2,000 bucks. Dude, yeah. I was like, should I get a tiger?

AlexYeah. Like, oh my God.

MerlinWhen they got to the one where Miles Sazerac is feeding that thick boy, that big white tiger. and he looks like Appa from Avatar. He does! I was like, I need...

Speaker AHoly shit!

MerlinI was like, up till now, you haven't affected me, but I want that tiger because he's a good, thick boy. The lizard could ride on him. It would be so sweet. He's so big. He'd be a lot to brush, but did you know what I'm talking about? He's like, everything's... He looks a little bit like the NeverEnding Story guy. Yes, absolutely. He's all oversized.

AlexI'd cuddle with him. Well, there's all of... Half the tigers they have are like... Or rather, they're ligers, which I didn't know was a real animal until like two years ago. I'm like, oh, yeah.

MaxOh, they're very, very cruel.

AlexIt's so upsetting. Like, what they're doing is incredibly upsetting and bad, if you know anything about, like, the way animals are kept in captivity. Did you know that? All right. All right. Not a long tangent. But you know how orcas, their dorsal fin flops over the top fin? It goes like, boom. like it's like they have a boner and then they don't the top dorsal thing yeah it no no no it just it just goes down it's made mostly of cartilage okay free willy think of do you not

free willy how it's like okay all right yeah anyway go that doesn't happen in the wild it's that they're so sad their bodies just break down yeah yeah like that's why you don't see like the orcas that we have impotent impotent fins they're all broken yeah it's okay tangent over i just want to make people even more sad yeah but like the you know the part of what they

Merlinokay so credit credit or um praise for the first episode um i love uh as with something like the first episode of cheer i think it did a real good job of like setting up um that the depth of feeling that people have about things i love that how well they established the characters and like what their stake in this is. You know what I mean? So it starts out and you don't think it's going to be super, I mean, they hint that obviously there's going to be some threat of violence at some point, but I like that

they set up the stakes in such a way that you're like, you can connect with these people, qua people, but also you're getting, oh, I see how this is going to go. I see how they're going to run into each other. And I love, especially with Carol, the setup of Carol, sorry, it's on time. the setup of carol such that in episode two you're gonna be able to guys watch episode two because if you can make it to the end of episode two and not immediately turn on episode three

Maxi will send you bitcoins i will get i will get bitcoins i will send them you'll figure out how

Merlinto make a wallet you'll send them you're gonna get ethereum you're gonna get stocks all the fix-ins hot desert salad.

MaxFor me, the moment was when the thing started, you know, I think I had seen Joe Exotic on John Oliver. Remember?

MerlinOr Colbert. But whoever showed that footage of him with the whole, like, I'm gay as a $3 bill and I got a warrant or I got a judgment against some bitch in Florida. I do remember seeing that on, I think, John Oliver.

MaxYes. Oliver did a thing because he ran for public office at some point. And I had seen that on John Oliver. And so I sort of knew the character of Joe Exotic a little bit from that. And when they go to the first cutaway interview of his toothless husband, sitting in a chair with the tattoos, wearing no shirt on, his just muscly toothless husband, I lost my fucking... Also, the worst cover-up tattoo.

I mean, not the worst, but it's up there.

Alexyou might as well have taken a roller with black paint

Maxon it

Alexjust put a sharpie down there my god let's see

MerlinI also agree with you did I show you guys my property of Joe Exotic tattoo have I shown you that no yeah

Speaker Ayou almost saw my hug oh no my hug

MaxThe way they set Carol up where in the first episode, she's almost an expert narrator.

MerlinWell, you think that they give... Sorry, Sondheim. They give you the thing where you think that we're setting up that she's going to be the protagonist. Yes. They're like, you love these crazy characters. It's going to be like an Elmore... Elmore Leonard and Elmore James. You think it's going to be like a get shorty kind of thing with antiheroes. But you're like, oh, she's the voice of reason. She's us in this. She's just the things that I put up with, that kind of thing. And then you're like, yep.

AlexYou don't realize it's a for profit zoo until the second episode. Yeah.

MaxWhat they keep doing, like what makes part of the format of this documentary so good is episode one sets up almost like, how do I put it? episode one sets up almost like the the official story like here's the party line like here's what

Merlinyou would have here's what you should know no one will no one will dispute these things yeah it's

Maxlike here's the or it's almost like here's like the public story like let's say you had been reading about this on wikipedia or something like here's what you would know right episode one like lays out that dynamic and then episode two is like turns out there's much it's actually much more complicated and episode three is like forget all that turns out it's even more like it just keeps going and going and going and you're like what the fuck and everyone it's a very quintessential like like 2020 like american story to me because it's a story about these absolutely crazy people who are completely desperate to control how they come off and how they're seen and what their public

image is and that exact it's part of their craziness it's part of why they're first of all that's part of why they all have the tigers because they all have the tigers because they want to be seen in a certain way and it manifests in different that's the only reason like

AlexLike, Carol wants to be seen in a different way than Joe Exotic, obviously, but that's why they all have tigers.

MaxBut she wants a lot of the same things that he does. And the Bhagavan. They all want, and the Scarface. They all, all the tiger people, they have something.

MerlinScarface, though, even Scarface is like, it started out simple. Like, I got these animals and these animals, and then you see how they ramp up to needing, like, it's almost like heroin. They need crazier and crazier animals.

MaxWell, you know, I started with a PowerBook and now I have a Mac Pro. It's like I liked how powerful it was and how quickly it can run the software and you just keep getting more and more.

MerlinRight. I used to like ladies in garter belts and now I can't finish unless I choke someone.

MaxYeah.

MerlinIt's a very similar thing if you love animals.

MaxYeah.

MerlinYeah. Sometimes it's myself. Let's be honest.

MaxWhen you get to these, everyone in this story is consumed. they have the tigers because they have something in their, in their, in them where it's like, I have to be seen in a certain way. Uh, and, and that is part of why they all record themselves on camera 24 seven and why this incredible footage exists. And it's why they go so insane. It's like why they, it's all very Trumpian. It's like, it's just, it feels totally,

totally of the moment. Totally like, like speaks to the current moment we're in that these people are all obsessed with how they're seen and it makes it takes what could be just an affectation of having these the private zoo and tigers and turns it into like now you run a fucking cult and when carol in whatever episode i think two or three when when when the volunteer day comes in and everyone's coming in and she's like now these are now these people have the yellow shirt and that oh my god yes yes yes now that's what you get from upgrading from the red shirt and that qualifies them to volunteer at the elite

level and if you volunteer at the elite level you get a discount on the essential oils you'll be selling yeah it's an mfm now that unlocks the opportunity to become a royal blue shirt and i'm gonna read to you from this time once you have the royal blue shirt now you're now you're

Merlinable to um come and work oh now now you're gonna start converting this straight into carol bucks which can be redeemed for other colored shirts.

MaxYeah. Yeah.

MerlinThere's a thing everybody knows when you're writing fiction. There's a thing everybody knows or should know that is, once you get this in your bones, it really sticks with you. There's the joke about actors saying to the director, you know, what is my motivation? But everybody who writes fiction, I think, whether they realize it or not, if it's good fiction, they know that everybody is, when a character walks into a room, when a character enters the scene, Whether or not we know it in that moment, there should be something that that person wants a lot.

Which is different from like, what's my motivation? You're sad. No. There's something that that person wants when they enter the scene, I think. And my addition to that is every character you meet in life has something they really, really want. And they also have something they don't want you to know. And to me, a good way to write an interesting character is without, You don't have to make this obvious in every single thing they do. But when you're wondering why that person seems sad when this person said that, consider that that is because they're maybe not getting the thing that they desperately want right now.

And they may be closer than they would like to that person realizing the thing that they don't want people to know. And I feel like when I look through that lens, that's just my own lens. But when I look at a character, a good character, everybody in this has that. and and what's interesting what's crazy is that the one thing everybody seems to want is cats and money like the warren zevon song lawyers cats and money everybody wants everybody wants wants cats and and and probably some adulation and then there is what's different is there's a lot of shit that they don't want you to know that is different right including

maybe somebody put somebody in the meat grinder but we're not sure i don't think a grinder but swamp so that i feel like they set up those pieces really well at the beginning where we have a pretty good idea what people want what we don't know in the first episode necessarily is their secrets or the things that they don't want you to know that they want or that in the case of almost everybody what is it in america with white guys and not having as much money as it seems they all love putting themselves out there as these these incredibly successful

Maxpeople well they they don't even care about the money it's that it's that he doesn't care about the money he cares about being seen in a certain way trump it's the same with trump trump doesn't care about the money he cares about the image of having the money the dollar amount is only

Merlinimportant in terms of being in forbes what's important is like what he's able how he's able to present his options in life based on how much money he theoretically has it's why p it's why

Maxpeople who are actually billionaires live in tasteful homes that are comfortable and good to live in and trump who's a fake billionaire lives in a golden penthouse because he it's if he wants to be right he wants something different than he doesn't want money he wants to be a guy who's seen

Merlinin a certain light but well and also the thing that everybody from molly haberman on down has noted is that he wants to be included and he is he's the kid who got picked last even though he was supposedly the greatest baseball player that ever played in uh new york uh he's he hates that he's not included he hates that he's not respected in new york he hates that people laugh at him behind his back and it's almost impossible i know this is this is just the story but to watch that was it the white house correspondence dinner where obama did the monologue and he had to just sit

there and take it yep and you can just feel the the pain welling up in him of like the guy who he from a distance he could just be this coward who demands the long form birth certificate but When you get in a room and he goes fucking ham on you, when he gets fucking Cyrano on your ass and you're so vulnerable and you running out would be the most pussy thing to do, he has to just sit there and take it. And that's his worst nightmare. His worst nightmare is he does not have an opportunity to muddy the waters, to interrupt the reporter, to do whatever it is.

Because whenever he just has to stand and listen, he looks like a fat man who's trying not to shart.

Maxanyway i think what carol baskin wants to be seen as is someone who runs an improv school yes and now if you if you sign up for if you sign up for the level 200 that qualifies you to get the orange t-shirt and at that point you can volunteer at the theater for no pay at the more elite level where you can then open up the opportunity to try out for a royal blue t-shirt oh then

MerlinThe Royal Blue now enables you to do a mini Herald, which is what we call mopping the bathroom for free.

MaxThe other thing that I took away from watching this was I did not realize. So what I do, what we do at Cards Against Humanity is we pay our employees. But I didn't realize that there was this other option of instead of paying them, I could let them take expired meat off of the Walmart truck.

AlexOh, God. No. I'd consider it, you know, instead of a 401k. just bring in a truck

Maxevery week. I had thought that there were certain laws in this country that said that I had to pay my employees but apparently I can give them $100 a month and then unlimited access to the expired meat from the Walmart truck.

Speaker AI need to try my new pizza. My new pizza's got garbage made on it. That's the Joe Exotic

Merlinguarantee. And he gets As he gets more and more trapped, he gets more and more impatient. Get in here. Get in here. Come into my pizza restaurant. You need to watch the tiger. Don't put your hand in the cage.

I have two guns.

180. The Toothless Husband 0:00 / 01:10:52