112. Make America Candy Again

AlexThis is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, see Into the Spider-Verse.

MerlinIs Max doing a remix? What's happening?

Speaker AHello. Were you rubbing your beard against the microphone?

MerlinNo, hang on. It's screwed up here. You sound like you're at President Obama's house. Alex, are you there?

AlexI am. I was just waiting to see if you'd talk about me and you didn't.

MaxThere we go. There we go. Okay. I'm hitting record. It's recording. I see the numbers going.

Speaker ACan you get any more high mids in the mix? Jesus Christ

MerlinAre you Are you on a burning building in London In 1940

Speaker AOh it's the best of the back And all the shit that's you let's go to the press I'm next up going to wrinkle my beard against us I'm staying at President Obama's house here in Hawaii Happy New Year Oh I miss you guys It doesn't sound good No it sounds good It sounds great I didn't know Radio Shack was still open my dream was always when i was working at radio shack um how's it going everybody it's going

Maxgreat i'm in the great state of california oh that's fine it's okay state where are you can you say for opposite reasons no well by the time this comes out i'll be uh home and i'll be guarding my house with a loaded shotgun again so i'm in pike and salmon palm springs palm springs

MerlinOh, it's very dry there

MaxYeah, Palm Springs is like a desert sort of retreat You know, it's like upstate New York For New York, Palm Springs is to LA It's like where people go to, I don't know, vacation and retire We flew into LAX and drove It's like an hour and a half drive, maybe But Palm Springs is crazy It's like a baby boomer holodeck Like it's just like it's just like, you know, neatly manicured.

And there's like old timey candy shops and lots of like jam bands playing, you know, the Eagles and Beatles and things like that.

MerlinI feel like Paul Krugman could do a running piece series on the appearance of old timey candy stores because it feels indicative of something. It might be the ultimate signifier of I wish I wish black people didn't talk so much anymore.

MaxOh, I think that based on the variety and number of saltwater taffy flavors that we got on this trip, that probably Trump's days in office are limited if I had to extrapolate.

MerlinOh, you're saying it's become a little too diverse.

MaxYeah. Well, the thing with the candy shops in Maryland is you've got walls and wheels.

MerlinOK, and it's always been that way.

MaxIt's always been that way.

MerlinAnd you get a mix. Here's what the thing is. This shows you how vibrant our economy is. Look at the price of gas going down. You've got walls. You've got wheels. But also just look at when you go to a candy store, you'll see that a lot of stuff in there is like pretty fucking generic. Like those shitty little dots on a strip. It's basically the dots on toilet paper thing. But you also get like corporate candy. It's a nice ad mixture that shows you the economy has never been better.

MaxWell, and the thing with those is you're going to be eating a good amount of paper.

AlexOh, I'm listening now.

MaxI'm listening. Alex, do you know about this candy? I always thought this was like a deli candy.

AlexNo, I literally have no idea what you're talking about. and I thought I just fell asleep.

MerlinI'm going to say it's called Candy Dots.

MaxIt's like a roll of receipt paper and it's all rolled up. And then on the paper, there's little colored sugar dots. And what you're supposed to do is, I guess are you supposed to peel them off or you're supposed to pop them off with your mouth?

MerlinI mean, a good clean boy would probably pick them off with his clean fingernails, but most people who are monsters, also, if you can, I'll send it to you. It looks a little bit like somebody didn't try too hard filling in the SAT with markers. But I think what you're supposed to do is you put them up, you get the receipt tape, and you put it on your underbite, on your underteeth, and you go... And you pull all the candies. Search for candy dots, Alex.

AlexThis is right in your wheelhouse. I'm seeing snow.

MerlinCandy buttons? Candy buttons. That's a good name. That's going to be my new pole dancer name. Candy buttons. Candy buttons.

AlexThis looked like someone fucked up and skipped a step in the factory. Like, oh, we didn't take them off. And they're like, wait, this saves us like $5 million a year.

Speaker AOops, all receipt tapes.

AlexOopsie poopsie. And then it just went out.

MaxWhen a kid's like a colored sugar, we'll just extrude it onto a sheet of paper. They'll pop it off with their mouth.

Speaker AIt's like an AI tried to delight a child.

MaxI mean, you're eating about one post-it note worth of paper every time you have those.

Speaker AOh, God.

MerlinCandy Buttons. Stupid. Candy Buttons.

MaxCandy Buttons sounds like a 1950s black stand-up.

MerlinOh, right. Like a little bit Ribble does party records with boob jokes. Or maybe like a GOP spokeslady. So she comes in and out, she's blonde.

MaxBack in the day, I used to play the Laugh Factory with Candy Buttons.

MerlinOh, Candy Buttons. It was always a good time with Candy Buttons. Yeah, yeah. Suzy Porkshank. Oh, my God. The stuff that she would do. Thigh Meat Wilson. She was hilarious.

AlexWhat do you think? You think you'd like these, Alex? I'm already trying to find them on Amazon, but it doesn't look like they're available. I feel like I'm going to have to venture to an old-timey shop to get these, like an artisanal candy place where they will offer me varieties of taffy that I don't want.

MerlinYou should wear a disguise, though. You and your partner should both wear mustaches, so you look like you fit in. No. You're going to make America candy again.

MaxOh, my God. What about that? Okay. Stop right there. That's a store. Make America candy again. And we saw here's the here's the idea. Okay, we're going to open we're opening the store. And, you know, Veronica, I went to see this. The challenge this week was to see the Spider-Man, the Spider-Man movie. And before we and before we saw it, we went to the candy store by the went to the fancy theater with the candy store downstairs. That's the store. It sugar. we've talked about this right the store is i t apostrophe s u g a r oh no that's oh no that's

Alexvery upsetting it's sugar it's true oh we have not talked about this because i would i think we did i know it's the kind of place you see an airport it's like an airport candy store Oh, it's the worst.

MaxNow, I want this store to sell. I want candy buttons in that store. I want that to be make America candy again, make candy great again. I want old-timey treats and delights. You know, I want like a lemon. I don't want a lemon head. I want a lemon hard candy shaped like a little football.

MerlinThat's a good idea. You can put all the black jelly beans in the back of the store, and then all the brown M&Ms would have to go through a standard federal gateway.

AlexLook at this promotional photo. They're already like halfway there other than the woman is at the front of the bus.

Speaker AIs that a real photo?

AlexYeah, it is a real photo at their official website.

Speaker AWas this a picture taken by diabetes?

MaxInstead of that old-timey candy paradise, what it is is like it's 80 of the store is given over to like novelty products like they they sold like a little jar called like it was like atomic urine or something and it was just like a yellow jar like it's all jokes oh oh like candy puns yeah like like you know like boner um gummies for your bachelorette party i'm just saying it may bum me out that there wasn't enough you know they did have some big bulk bins and they had some good you know gummies and whatnot but i think of

This is a big opportunity for us that we could start make candy great again.

MerlinBig buck bins. I would like about a pound of boners, please. I'd like some candy boners. That's pretty good, too.

MaxI think this is going to appeal to the Trump voter demographic. I think because what do they like? They like big. They like sugar.

MerlinThey love obvious jokes.

MaxYeah. They're going to buy any garbage. I mean, they buy like Trump, like commemorative, like plates and coins. Right. They're going to buy our candy. It's a MAGA candy. I think they're going to come wheeling in there on their mobility scooters. They're going to have a big bag, and they're going to fill it with our old-timey candy. And what does candy buttons cost?

MerlinOh, to make less than a nickel. You can get all of them for a nickel, and then it's all markup. But you know what? It supports the troops, right? Don't you think? And the first responders, yeah.

MaxYeah, well, one penny of every purchase goes to support our first responders. And here's the thing is I think you're going to call it. I think it's not, okay, it's not candy buttons anymore. It's called There Are Only Two Genders candy dots.

AlexOnly pink and blue.

MaxSo you're triggering, so every time you buy it, you're triggering the lips.

MerlinOh, that's so smart. It's a four-quadron candy hit. That's good.

MaxThis is a, I think, listen, I know that there's, I know that there's some Silicon Valley type people who listen to this.

Speaker AYeah.

MaxAnd I know that you have no morals. And I think that there's a lot of money to be made here. So please reach it to us. I really think we could do this. I don't want to be conservative here in terms of the cost, but I think we could probably do this for $10 million.

MerlinI mean, I think that would be what you call seed money. There's two parts I think we need to add. The second part I don't want to get too far into is we have to add blockchain. But the first part is it should be a little bit like Hooters. And you got hot triple D chicks dressed like Donald Trump. like maybe maybe just like oversized shorts but they have some kind of very tiny brassiere

Alexand a red and a red hat i think you're on to something no no no that has been no that's but they can go to hooters what you need is some someone who looks like me or somebody with a pink pussy hat serving them and it's like oh we've officially been you have officially been owned you you sir are serving me it's all millenniums it's all millenniums working

Merlinthere and they're unhappy.

MaxWhat if it's a millennium and he's got, you know, they're wearing their, okay. He's got his vape pen. Remember the Starbucks Reserve stores and we found their dress code that required them to wear like like trilbies and sort of hipster hats, like wide brim hats and things like that. Okay, we're going to, that's who's going to be behind the counter, right? It's going to be your Starbucks Reserve store hipster and every time you come to make a purchase, they're going to like compliment you on your taste in music. Or ask where you got an article of clothing. Ooh, Where'd you get those cowboy boots?

MerlinI also love the idea of, even though it's completely unnecessary, you get to leave a name like you would at Starbucks and then they have to write it. They have to write it on your bag. Mr. Trump. Mr. Trump. And you say it over and over. They act like they can't hear you. Mr. Trump. Mr. Trump, your pussy buttons are ready. Mr. Trump. Oh, I guess that's me.

And Charlie Kirk's there in a diaper on a little stage. Like, you mean playing acoustic guitar? That'd be so fun.

MaxAw. Yeah. We're saying happy Christmas.

Speaker AEven to the haters.

MaxWe should probably have convertible notes. That seems like pretty important.

MerlinThat's a good idea. Yeah. Oh, you know what? Can we also bring it? I don't want to belabor this, but I mean, I've been watching a lot of cable news and ball and i'm learning a lot about who they think i am on these things i mean this is just as true for seeing i don't watch a ton of fox i do watch but i'm i'm noticing across the board uh i mentioned this in tweet the other day but there's obviously a huge number of ads for costly american automobiles but there's also a lot of things for the failing human body so could you come in there and get a colorful candy colored nearly painless catheter set oh okay oh and the pillows we're gonna have

the pillow guy my pillow the guy with the cross it was the guy with the prominent cross yeah my

Maxpillow i can't remember what awful retrograde thing tucker carlson did now but all his advertisers left and the only one left is my pillow and not only do they run like uh they they literally run like uh like 120 seconds like like my pillow infomer he like filled he filled in the holes with his my pillow ads tucker carlson now has the ceo of my pillow come on his program to talk about

Alexpillows and politics wait why aren't we doing this though like we could the make candy great again could be the alt-right square space and just because everybody's pulling their sponsorships

Merlinfor everything you just show up on all the other shows it says you've added a fifth quadrant it

Maxalso it's backfill ads yeah i want to be all right square space have you seen that's so smart alex when the number one anti-semitic podcast they i think when that one guy who was the host was revealed to be Jewish, that they probably lost a lot of their advertisers. Exactly. Zip Recruiter is like, I feel like I've been in this light. I thought that this was the number one anti-Semitic podcast. And you're telling me that one of the hosts was Jewish? No way.

MerlinThat's an FTC thing. You're supposed to be honest about your anti-Semitism and your ranking. But you see a lot of things for financial services. You get a lot of refis. There's one that's been a little puzzling to me. I don't know if you've seen this commercial. And it's for some kind of blah, blah, blah, something, something financial services. Because nobody's just a bank anymore. It's always got to be all higgledy-piggledy. It's an ad for this place. And have you seen this? It's like a bad SNL parody where they have like a coffee. They have a barista. And like this is the new Providential or whatever. And it's all millennials milling around in what looks like a combination of a food court and a car dealership.

But they've got a barista.

MaxOh, Merlin, that's what you call a third place.

MerlinA third place.

MaxThat's the thing is you're not a lot of times when we're out, we're out milling around. And we're like, let's go hang out at the bank. That's a third place.

MerlinMake America Candy again. Okay.

MaxYou meet a nice young woman on Tinder. And you're like, where should we meet up? Oh, let's go to the bank.

MerlinOkay. And once again, once again, you go there. And there's some hipster doofus with a vape pen who has to work at the Make America Candy Again refi booth. And of course, he can't afford a house because he blew all his fucking money on avocado toast. And he's very unhappy because your credit is so good. You're going to get your refi and your catheters from the vape pen guy, and that is going to own the libs, wouldn't you say?

MaxIs there still a lot of – do you still see a lot of ads for reverse mortgages? That used to be something I would see of like, here's the one trick that Obama doesn't want you to find out about. You get a reverse mortgage today. What is a reverse mortgage? I'm actually not 100 percent sure.

MerlinDo you know, Alex, have you ever done a reverse mortgage on your apartment? Do you know how that works?

AlexMany, many times, but can you explain it to me? Well. That's where you put money up and then you own the bank?

MerlinI think a reverse mortgage is different from a second mortgage. I want to stipulate. I don't understand anything about money. But I think what it is is you have a fair amount of equity in your home on your 30-year loan. And I think it's something where basically they give you some money, but then they keep your house when you die. I think it's something like that.

MaxThat could be a pretty aggressive expansion plan for make candy great again.

MerlinWell, and also your stupid kids. Your stupid kids don't get your house. you pwn your kids too.

MaxYeah, well, it's going to... Oh, I see. But what I'm saying is, where are we going to go? I mean, we're going to open a few of these with our $10 million of seed money and our convertible notes. But then what? Because we're going to need a lot of them.

AlexA lot of inventory.

MaxWe're going to need them in every neighborhood. So I'm thinking we do these reverse mortgages. People eat the sugar and they die.

Speaker AAnd we get their house. And then we turn their house into the latest make candy great again. Because there's no zoning laws anymore. it's fucking uh you know the uh the purge out there you can you can have a candy store anywhere

Maxyou want this is i'm telling you i just listened to uh uh so we've we've been doing a lot of driving and we just listened to the entire podcast the dream did you guys listen to that yes so good for me for sure that's the best podcast of the year i got it in right under the wire and we finished it on the 31st and god damn that was the best podcast of uh of 2018 it's

Merlinsuch a journey because the first episode is like okay good and then it gets better and better and And then at the end, you can barely sit still. You're squirming so bad with the way these interviews are going. But the way they bring in the personal, the personal guy from the trade association.

MaxOh, yeah.

MerlinHe was he's slick. That guy is slick.

MaxYeah. Yeah. I thought he was all right. He anyway, it's about a multi-level marketing schemes, which I just really I don't know. I just haven't thought we talk about them sometimes on Dubai Friday.

MerlinBut boy, was that I've been obsessed with them for 20 years. I'm obsessed. It was something when the one where they what obsesses me about them. is something they got into. When they talked about that one company, the first one, the company from the 60s where the guy made the albums. Yeah, so the idea is you sell, what was it called? Holiday something? Holiday? But, you know, they sell whatever they sell. Who fucking cares?

MaxHoliday magic?

MerlinHoliday magic. The beauty part was, though, once you get in, it's very clear the only way you're going to make money and move up is to recruit new people. But then they have a secondary MLM inside the MLM, which is so beautifully elegant, which is you pay, people in your upline to take mlm classes to get better at mlm it's the most oroboros business and there's something about that that just breaks my brain in the greatest way so maybe maybe you can come in and you could become when you come in and you buy your candy in your catheters or reverse

your mortgage you also get the opportunity to become one of our partners that's right okay

Maxyou're yes and the other thing that was really depressing about the dream is like they get into how, you know, obviously Betsy DeVos is secretary of education, but Trump ran MLMs like a bunch of

Merlinhis, you know, her brother was an Amway guy, right? Was that right? Well, the DeVos family,

Maxthat's why she's extremely wealthy is they, they started Amway. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's MLM, the MLM people went from almost being regulated out of existence because of doing blatant fraud to now they just control the United States government. Like we are the MLM country. We have the MLM president. We're just the MLM people. But I see that as a proprietor of Make Candy Great Again. I think that this is an opportunity.

MerlinAnd also, the hardest challenge for us as we bootstrap this very important operation is it's going to be difficult to find large groups of people who are willing to willfully behave in ways that are utterly antithetical to what would actually improve their life based on the idea of a dream of success that's utterly unattainable. if we could only find a group of people who would deliberately take steps to ingratiate themselves to a brand that's ultimately about how much they suck.

And you could have a gold toilet. We'll have a gold toilet. We've got to have a gold toilet.

MaxOh, yeah.

MerlinThis is a license to print money.

MaxYou know what? I was thinking that, too, during the dream. It's only a matter of time before there's a popular podcast that goes full MLM because you do have a big audience, and they will kill for you. interesting so you want to walk that line or youtuber like if pewdiepie started selling some sort of mlm nonsense like it would be really it would be crazy how do you how do you walk that

Merlinnarrow line between success and your downline and people who actively want to wear your skin

Maxit's a it's a very tight tight rope walk if we told everyone on the discord that if we told everyone on the discord that they had to buy hundred dollars worth of herbal life or they were getting kicked off the discord tomorrow i think we'd move a lot of verbal life

Merlinalex did you say you you're looking forward to someone wearing your skin

Alexis that what i got from that oh you're not it's like cannibalism you're not opposed i'm just here mumbling just just telling my stories challenge

MaxIs my Alex my cat alive?

AlexI'm not responsible for your cat My Yes though I did visit her this morning She is alive Did you send photos? You know Maddie is in possession of them But she really is Kind of my new problematic fave Because she loves It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia And that's just not a show for nice people That I've watched the entire season

MerlinAre you talking about the cat or Matchy? Who are you talking about?

AlexThe cat. The cat. I told an almost coherent story. Max is out of town. Matchy is watching the cat with a friend. And now I say hello and goodbye to Max's cat every day. That's the whole story. And we watched It's Always Sunny Together story. Okay. Yeah. Oh, my.

MaxWe get a push notification on our phone when the cat takes a shit. Oh, so good. so we're yeah it's great so we're like out we'll be out in our vacation while our phones will start buzzing and walk and i'm like oh the cat took a shit she took me a doodle in her basket i have

Alexthis new theory of they're really people are like oh why don't you like cats that's because they're are either just perfect absolute just flawless cats like max's or just absolute complete disasters i don't think they're actually in the same like gene pool maybe a couple of them are and that's how we're getting the weird like feral things but they're either perfect creatures and it's you see how the egyptian gods would worship them or ones literally found in a dumpster yeah i get very

Merlinenvious it's it's one reason well the main reason i deleted my instagram of course was because facebook but also like i just got tired of seeing everybody's perfect life and everybody's cat that acts normal everybody oh look at this precious angel it's a did you see the one you see the cat It's the cat that pets the dog. No, the dog pets the cat and then the cat hugs the dog. Have you seen that one? Stuff like that. It makes me so angry. It's so sweet and I love it. It makes me so happy, but it just makes me angry. Our cat just shits and stares at us.

It shits on the floor while it's staring at us. It makes eye contact. It's like Louis C.K. It just wants to keep eye contact the whole time. So I'll hear this. So I'm trying to sleep. I'm trying to sleep in the morning. Here's what I hear.

Which I call the telltale scratching. And that means that the cat is about to drop a duke in the hallway. Or in the other hallway. Or over here in the dining room. Or here on the landing. It's like the stations of the cross for our angry masturbating cat.

And then you hear... And you hear three hard little dukes hit the floor. Tunk, tunk, tunk. And now I have a new job. But then she runs. She runs. I don't know if it's out of guilt or fear. But then she goes. And you hear this scattering as she runs away from where she left her dukes. And I can't have that. I don't want Instagram anymore. I want to see somebody's perfect cat. My cat's a monstrosity. And I love her so much. She's such a sweet, precious angel.

AlexYou should really look into cat foley work. I think the Rachel Maddow show needs to check out your resume.

MerlinThat's when I was on the Chitlin Circus. I used to work with cat foley work all the time. Herring candy buttons. Back meat persimmon.

On that bawdy chitlin circuit. Did I say chitlin circus? I don't think that's a thing.

Speaker AHow's everybody doing? How's the new year?

MaxWhat did you do for New Year's, Alex? This is the first year. So this is the 10-year anniversary of us creating the first prototype of Cards Against Humanity, which we made for a new year's party and i guess it would be in 2000 and 2008 2009 and um every we made it and it was really fun and then you know we like put it on the internet it got popular and then every new year since then we've had a big new year's party where we like play cards against humanity and and because that's like the anniversary of the game and um we and also like

what back then we were on college so we'd all come home from college and that was our only time of of the year where we were all in town and we could work on cards against humanity and then we just kept doing that and now we're all like grown-ass men with like families and we'd still like every new year's everyone like flies into chicago and we like trudge through the snow and we sit around this table and we're like miserable and cold and everyone wishes they were home for the holidays and we work on cards and last year we were in like a pit of despair like these retreats get really grim and it's also gets dark at like two in the afternoon like it's it's not a great time

and we're like man like i wish we didn't have to meet now and do this retreat and then we all sort of stare at each other like why do we do these retreats now oh interesting like we just realized like we don't actually have to meet over new year's and so we just didn't this year it's the it's literally in for in 10 years it's the first year that we haven't had a retreat and a big party for new year's so alex is always like semi or at least for the last couple years is like semi had to work on new year's because we only semi well there's throwing a party for 200 throwing a party

for 200 people oh no i i recall that there was some drinking and possibly trying to arm wrestle

Alexme involved in one of these work evenings but you know i also recall winning so who oh yeah that

MaxYou were all hawked out on... Oh, she hopped up on energy drinks?

AlexOn champagne, yes. That's what called the hawk.

MaxYeah.

AlexNo, this New Year's, we had the same revelation. Matchy and I were like, oh, we need to figure out a party to go to. And we're like, wait, no, we don't.

Speaker ANo, you don't.

AlexYeah, no, so we just went to a friend's house, and we watched Kiki's Delivery Service and my new favorite film, Venom, which is just oh that Tom Hardy and uh ate some special cookies and went to bed around uh 1 a.m it was perfect fantastic sounds pretty it sounds pretty good it was lovely how about the two of you

Merlinwhat'd you guys I'm just thinking about what you said Max it's and it's I'm going to interrogate it just a little bit more like that's a weird feeling so you've had you've had two kinds of emptiness is too strong a word but on the one hand you go like hmm do it wait a minute we've been doing this did I realize we're still doing this and then you go do we really need to do this and we don't do it. How did you feel like when you didn't have that to do? Was it weird because you're so used to doing that and not having to think about it?

MaxYeah, I literally was like, I don't know what people did. My entire, I mean, since I was a sophomore in college, what I've done for New Year's is work on Cards Against Humanity with my eight friends. And I was like, I don't know what people do on New Year's that's not that. So we had to figure something out. It was weird. It's like if you just discovered that Christmas existed and you were like, what are the customs of this holiday?

MerlinOh man. Grab a sandwich. It's complicated. But that sounds like a good one, Alex. It sounds like you had a nice time. And you had some... What you're saying is you ate marijuana.

AlexNo, I didn't say that. They're just very special cookies that my friend's partner prepared. What the fuck does that mean, Alex? That they were special. It means they were prepared by Trin's special friend and that they were special.

MerlinDo you mean to be this bad at what you're doing?

AlexI know.

MerlinYou had a special cookie.

AlexI had a special cookie. Okay. Here's the thing. The people who listen to this podcast either know it's weed or they're just like, oh, Alex had a special cookie. How nice. You don't need to specify.

MaxMy guess is that it wasn't it wasn't weed because that's illegal in the state of Illinois. But it was probably something legal. It's probably something legal like kratom and CBD. Oh, right. It was a cake of powdered CBD and kratom.

AlexNo, no unsafe dose.

MaxWas it a legal copy of that? Oh, and synthetic, synthetic marijuana.

AlexHas anybody tried that? I want to try it so badly. I'm so curious.

MaxSpice? Spice? The kids are calling it spice. What you don't know about synthetic marijuana may kill you.

MerlinThat seems weird because isn't, I mean, I don't follow, I don't read the trades, but hasn't marijuana gotten a lot better quality and less costly over time? Is there a need for synthetic marijuana?

AlexThat's what seems curious.

Maxjust that it's not just that it's legal and so you can buy it in like gas you can buy it in like gas stations and things like that alex what was the one that was you was probably i was really popular when i was in college and it got you hot you would smoke it and you'd smoke like a pinch of it and it would just you'd like trip out for 20 seconds in a horrible dysphoric high youtube uh salvia salvia that was yeah that's right i haven't seen people do i mean i'm maybe kids are still

doing it but i haven't seen people do salvia in many many years but that was a bad not fun drug that was very ubiquitous and popular when i was in college everyone was doing salvia all the time

Alexi genuinely have never done it or seen anybody did it done like in real life so there was a while i'm like is this just like a youtube challenge that people are doing it was so amusing have you not seen like a salvia freak out it looks terrifying salvia also known as sage of the diviners oh yeah this does not look fun simply chewing smoking or as a tea huh well i remember

Merlinthe name it feels like there's always some kind of like au courant um i'm trying to remember even back when i was in college there would be some herb that suddenly became very popular for some kind of combination of like insight like pharmaceutical therapeutic use and a combination of that and getting you high.

MaxSalvia. Yeah, like if you like huff this for long enough, you'll get dizzy and fall over and then kids will go, we'll buy it in little baggies.

MerlinIt's like Whippets in a leaf. La la la. Okay.

Speaker AAlright.

AlexOh, fuck yeah.

MaxOh, man, am I watching Survivor.

AlexHave either of you met Coach yet?

MerlinI've met Coach in two seasons.

AlexOh, wait, what's the second season?

MerlinCoach is in three seasons of the show.

AlexOh, fuck, yes.

MaxHave you guys met Cochran yet?

MerlinYes, I met Cochran in a full season. No spoilers, I just met Cochran doing a little fly-in. on Dingling Island. He came into Dingling Island to give somebody some advice.

MaxOh, I see. So, so far, I think the best season of Survivor that I've seen so far is a season, a returning Cochran season called Fans vs. Favorites.

MerlinOkay, okay. And it's like probably in the 30s?

MaxIt's a, it is a, yeah, I think so, late 20s or 30s. But it's in the HD era, the modern Survivor era, and that's probably the best season I've seen so far. I'm watching the hot people versus strong people versus smart people season, which is pretty good.

Speaker AWhat do they call it?

MaxThey call it beauty versus bronze versus brains.

Speaker ADinguses versus doofuses. Dinguses versus doofuses versus ding-a-lings.

MerlinHave you met Robert Playswell, Johnny Paycheck? Have you met that one guy yet? He's got a funny name. He's got Johnny Fairplay. Have you met him? Boston Rob. I love Boston Rob. This is a different guy. This guy is the ding-a-ling of the ding-a-lings. And I think his name is Johnny Playswell or Johnny Playfair.

MaxIf I had told you a year ago that this would become a Survivor fan podcast, that's a weird turn of events, right? I would have asked you to delete your account.

AlexIt would have. But it's so good. It is so good.

MerlinNo, it's a really bad show.

AlexIt's a very, very bad show. I disagree. I know. I figured out the other day what...

Speaker ABecause you're opposite girl. No, I'm not. You used to be jazz girl, and now you're opposite girl.

AlexNo, no, no.

Speaker AYou like the opposite of whatever the good thing is. No! Hey, internet, what do you think of me? Do-do-do-do-do. I feel so unhealthy from all this internet. What do you guys think? Do-do-do-do-do. Oh.

AlexOh.

Speaker AOh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Alexwell while merlin is gone max please watch the video that i've just sent you

Maxokay i'm hitting play what is that exactly exactly what is it oh what is that a little

Alexsilverfish or something oh that is a gigantic centipede that is not like oh there's a little silverfish in the shower or toilet or something like that oh there is a gigantic centipede in oh god it's huge so then i just flushed and left you're you're welcome it's a problem problem solver oh it looks like in if you zoom in somebody sent me a picture of a toilet uh please please watch this video max seems unfazed by it i am very upset oh my god is it a millipede it

didn't happen it didn't happen to me it's all i can happen to me it's true what is it i don't I don't know.

Speaker AThat would be very expensive.

MerlinIt probably means something about the new year.

AlexOh, my God. Look at this thing. Oh, my God.

MerlinI would suggest overthinking it.

AlexOh, look at that. Oh, my God.

MerlinOh, wow. It's got real long legs.

AlexYeah. Yeah. I...

MerlinIs that before or after you peed out?

AlexOh, no, no, no, no. I saw it. I flushed and I left. There I'm still. I'm still filled. I no longer have to pee. The window is gone and I'm happy that it's gone. Oh, my God. Now it lives in a fat bird. Wow.

MaxOh, God. it's probably gaining strength in the fatberg i mean it's gonna have it's gonna join a colony

Merlinof other flushed insects it's gonna be like it's gonna become super strong from the fatberg

Alexcan you imagine though if i sat down and then it bit me i would be like a pedo person wait

Merlinexcuse me is that how that happens alex it starts at a young age you get bit and become a pedo No. It's costing them when they call it a nonce.

AlexOkay. All right.

MerlinDoes this have to do with your thing with Hermione?

AlexOh, because I... Wait. No. No, that's not fair. That's not fair. I was 10 years old. I was 10 years old.

MerlinDo you think that really changes it? Does that change it, Alex?

AlexYeah.

MerlinDoes that make it right?

AlexOh, God. For example, I thought I had a crush on the girl from My Girl when I was younger, but then I watched a trailer for My Girl and was like, ah, oh, oh. haven't you ever had that anna chumsky i don't know she was the kid she's also in um she's also

Merlinin um she's also in um i want to say the thick of it she's in one of those uh ianucci shows as a grown-up as a grown-up not as a not as a pedo-sot young actress that you're attracted to oh my god anna chumsky i i want to say anna anna anna chumsky good chumsky good for you for not

Alexchanging your last name oh she's 10 years older than me that makes sense actually oh oh that makes it different oh there we go no no i got it oh my god oh my god this is my childhood just unfurling before me there oh my god this movie there was a movie with uh the the other person i found very attractive as a youth christina ricci not so much anymore but there was a not anymore why not anymore she's not she's not my type i don't know you don't like wednesday adams christina richie

Maxshe looks like a 90s alien you know the 90s alien yeah yeah like you draw on a notebook

Speaker Ayeah yeah okay she's all forehead no no no like she looks like something that was yeah that was

Maxa very big look in 1995 was being almost completely forehead yep i'm also guilty of that

Alexi the the ponytail you get back real real tight and you just show off that greasy greasy forehead

MaxShe looks like a monster factory where they took all the face and they just scrunched it down real small, real down low.

MerlinNo middle sliders. I'm not familiar with their work. I think we're back.

AlexOh, can we start?

MerlinHey, point of something. Can I make a suggestion? Well, okay. First, I want to stipulate that last night I recorded an episode of the podcast Reconcilable Differences with friend of the show, John Syracuse, that will air next Thursday. and a lot of the show was talking about Survivor. I finally got to voir dire him on his Survivor background. We talked about you, Max. We talked about the learnings that you shared with us. I talked about what I've learned about the rules from looking at Wikia and legal documents. It was really interesting.

MaxWait, is this, I'm sorry, is this the same as the episode that I got a little sneak listen to?

MerlinNo, this is a new one. Comes out Thursday. I'll send it to you.

MaxOh, it's fucking Survivor Part 2?

MerlinHell yes.

AlexOh, oh, if we were to get one that fell off the back of the truck, I would not be mad.

MerlinYeah, well, yeah. Well, I mean, you're right. We talked about it a lot in the previous episode, but in this one, we both kind of caught ourselves up on how I've kind of warmed up to Jeff Probst, his opinion on finally finishing season 37. And we just, you know, we talked about it and stuff. So, but in prepping for that, I had to, and I'm wondering if we could all do this, if it's not difficult. I collated, chillingly collated how much of this show we have watched in the last three weeks. And I was going to, could we compare and contrast what seasons we've watched?

AlexOh, sure.

MerlinSure. Now, Alex, you've watched, what, two or three?

AlexI've watched three, but I watched one of them when I... I watched Heroes vs. Villains when I was sick, which I think is the one next... So good. I remember almost, like, literally none of it. You got Russell. You got Russell Hance.

Speaker AI have no idea who that is.

AlexOh, come on. Beard guy with the hat? I was in, like, a total... I have no idea what the fuck happened those, like, three days. But I watched David vs. Goliath, as well as the Brazil season, which is the first one with Coach. I just went into Amazon Prime, and it was like one of the last days I was sick. I just was like, find Survivor into the Apple TV and got the first one that came up, and it was really good. I'm a fan of TJ. I really, really liked it. I watched the entire thing.

MerlinTJ in Heroes vs. Villains, he declared the worst move ever made in Survivor history in Heroes vs. Villains.

AlexWhich was the worst move? Sorry.

MerlinHe gives Russell the Idol.

AlexOh, no, no, no. I haven't seen it yet. I thought it was Heroes vs. Villains. Again, I watched it, but I did not see it, Merlin.

MerlinSo Heroes vs. Villains, Brazil, and what else did you have?

AlexOh, just David and Goliath. So I've only really seen two seasons. Yeah, yeah.

MerlinWhat do you got, Max?

MaxOkay, so I watched David vs. Goliath. I watched Ghost Island. I watched Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers. I watched Millenniums vs. Gen X. I watched Kagayan. I watched Cameron Rowan. I watched Heroes vs. Villains. And I think I might have watched some of these other ones. And I watched Borneo. So I watched eight seasons of Survivor in the last month.

MerlinOh, my God. Now I feel better. I don't feel good.

MaxBut this is why it's not a bad show. Where's Fans vs. Favorites? That must be Caramo.

AlexI do not.

MaxYeah, I think I said that.

AlexEven after an episode of Top Chef, I feel a little bit dirty. Like, I'm like, man, I love these scallops, but this didn't make me a better person. I don't feel guilty after watching Survivor.

MaxI am perpetually. Here's how I've watched so much of this. First of all, I've taken, I've been flying a lot in the last month. And this is a great show for airplanes. Like, it is the exact amount of sort of brain cells that I have to rub together on an airplane. It's like enough to follow an episode of Survivor and play like an iPhone game or something. So that's number one. And then I'm also like I'm always on the lookout for shows that I can watch while I do something else because I have a lot of work that I need to do that is like data entry or answering emails. And Survivor is a great show to have on that I can just because they it's like other reality TV.

They recap everything that happens like 10 times as it's happening. Right. So if you if your attention fades for three minutes while you're working on something and then you come back, you're going to come back to a recap of a guy describing what just happened. And for that reason, I really like watching The Bachelor franchise or Shark Tank or Survivor while I'm working. Those are right in my sweet spot of shows that I watch while I'm also sitting in front of the computer doing some kind of work.

AlexI agree. It can absolutely be watched like that. But when I was sick, this is the first time I think I watched the show, and I was not bored. I wasn't there are some they do repeat everything over and over again but the editing is so good you know that they're manipulating the edit as any reality show does but the fact that someone can pick out a little nod somewhere it's like oh these people are really good at crafting a story that sure it still goes down super easy you can have an IQ of negative 10 and still enjoy it

but I don't know.

MerlinYou can appreciate it on so many levels and I'm to the point where I'm overthinking so much of this show that I dare not look away but like Max says and like you're saying, you can choose to engage on almost any level you want. You might be really into the challenges, you might be really into the gossip and backstabbing but once you start overthinking it the way that I'm overthinking it it weirdly draws you in.

MaxWell I watched David vs. Goliath like that where I knew every person in the cast and every vote I was trying to work out how everybody voted in every vote. And I mean, I was really engaged with it. And there are other seasons I've watched.

MerlinSo do you notice it till the end when they show you the votes?

MaxOh yeah. Too late. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I try, I like to know as it's happening, I I'm trying to count. I'm trying with, you know, I'm trying to figure out where the, where the lines are. Like that's, that's kind of my little game for myself is like, can I predict how the vote is actually going to come out? And sometimes the edit is good enough that you can work, even work it out, even if there's a twist. but uh because you like get enough information as the viewer i like those ones where it's a little a little mystery that you can solve uh but uh then there's other seasons where i'm paying attention so little that they'll vote someone off who was boring and i'll be like i literally don't know

Merlinwho that was that's happened every season there's somebody where we didn't even it's like um not zeleg but it's like there's time where my wife and i are like they'll do the like the headshot the talking head with somebody we'll be like wait a minute it's episode seven who is this person Like, I have no idea who this person is.

Speaker ARight.

AlexBut as the seasons go on, I think they get better at that. Because in a lot of shows, when someone suddenly gets a ton of screen time, you're like, oh, they're the next to go.

MerlinSyracuse had talked about that and how they twisted up over time where if you get too used to the idea, because I had said that, oh, I think when they get too much, if you get too much screen time in episodes two and three, it means you're either a super ding-a-ling or somebody who's going to make it to the end. And it's not all, it doesn't, I think that's not always true. You're right. They do get better with each season at like mixing this up.

AlexI've just become obsessed with the craft. Like, sure, I've only watched two seasons, but I have read more, maybe read more about Survivor than I have actually watched Survivor.

MerlinHow do they know? I mean, how do they know how, at what point? Think about having a, so you know about the dream team that like tests all the obstacles and all that kind of stuff, helps develop the challenges, the interns. But like, my mind boggles with like the logistics, something I imagine appeals to you, Alex. The logistics of this, of knowing at this point, it's like calculus. At this point in the season, there will be this many people left. When do we do the merge? If we do the merge, because we don't always do the merge. How do we mix this up? How do we know what kind of challenge goes at which point, given how many people will be in there and how important immunity is?

Because there's some of those challenges where they winnow down, right? From everybody to five people to three people, right? That kind of thing. And just the logistics of doing that and then having to move all that shit around. All those puzzle pieces and getting them underwater. And like one of the things you learn when you read about this is everything takes everything we see as being a few minutes apparently takes hours or a day to do like everything. You see tribal council takes hours and hours and hours. Each each challenge takes hours, supposedly. But yeah, the more you think about it, the more you really process how crazy it is.

AlexEven the talking heads, there's no they don't have control of the environment. So it's like they turned producing a reality show to like 11 hardness because you need to get those talking heads in and you need the consistency. But it's like, oh, OK, we need to evacuate the island for three days. And it completely changes how they produce the game.

MerlinIn terms of like continuity, like what are you wearing? How dirty are you?

AlexHow did it rain? Like it's a logistics nightmare.

MerlinAnd yeah, top dress, top dress and top chef don't deal with that. You can see that they're shot way out of sequence a lot of the time.

AlexUh-huh. Horny for logistics on Maine, as you would totally endorse.

MaxSomething else that I... Here's a little inside tip from my pals who are involved in Survivor production. So I don't know exactly the season, but at some point, I don't know if you guys are watching the early seasons or not, but at some point it switches from Jeff Probst as host to Jeff Probst as executive producer. And there was a point in the progression of the show where Probst sort of took over and heavily became involved in the production and design of the show. And that's really when Survivor got excellent.

And a lot of those challenges, he is the best. He's a great game designer, I think, just as evidenced by all the crazy shit that they come up with for people to do that are always interesting and fair and fun. He personally tests all of those games. And I think another thing I like is when you're watching it, people throw, they will do things the wrong way. right they'll like they'll like break the game and the challenges in a way that wasn't anticipated and he is the guy on the ground who there is no off-camera panel of producers and judges it's

it's jeff probst and he has to make a judgment call about whether it's fair and sporting whether he's going to let people do it there was one season i watched where they were like they were like standing on top of something and it was like every 15 minutes you had to go up another level so it got harder and harder and then once you got to the top you just stood there for as long as possible. And these two women were left and they were both standing on top of this thing for like an hour and a half and neither of them was going to give up. And so they were like, what if we just, what if we agree to just do one foot? So we add like a fourth level beyond what the game

design is, but we just agree to do it to hasten the challenge. And they asked Jeff, like, can we do this? And like, damn, like that guy is the host of a reality show. Like, why should he be equipped to talk, to make a snap decision about, is that going to play on camera? Is it going to be fair for the game? Like, is it going to, you know what I mean? Like there's so many factors to think through. And, and he did, he came up with a, he came up with a really fair way to do it. It's great.

MerlinWell, you would have, you would have compression, but still, I mean, if you make it too, too hard, it'll be like a second long and it's not that good. Like Syracuse says in previous seasons, there's the kind of challenges he refers to as the like, who wants it more challenges where like hands on a hard body kind of thing we talked about, but you want something in between. If you could have somebody like the, we just watched one last night with the challenge where you're on a pole. You stand on a pole with these indentations and you basically hold the pole while the very edges of your feet are in these little notches.

AlexOh my God.

MerlinAnd that goes for about an hour. Now, if that was too easy and it went for five hours, even with editing, that might not be the best TV. You need somewhere somewhere in between.

AlexI mean, I loved the crucifixion thing. The crucifixion one with the Christian was crazy. Oh my God. So good.

MerlinCan I just, in passing point of information, I get so confused about all of these. So we've watched 37, David vs. Goliath. 20, Heroes vs. Villains. 16, Micronesia. 23, South Pacific. 25, Philippines. And 36, whatever that is right now. I think it's Dinglings vs. Doofuses. The first one with Cochran, and I think with Coach, is 23, South Pacific. And I do recommend it. It's got a real good group. It's got Redemption Island.

So yeah, check it out. It's good. You can totally tell where Last Chance Kitchen comes from. They totally got that from Redemption Island.

Speaker AYeah.

MerlinYeah, I'll send you some links. And I might have gotten these from you, Max. But there's some links to where you can find the contract that they sign. And there's lots of stuff on Wikia about the history of the general rules and how they've changed, when they've been broken, controversial changes to the rules. That is a good read.

MaxI have to say, I love my – there's sometimes in your life where you get into something and you're like, I wonder what the deal is with this. And then you get into it so much that you are browsing the Wikia for it. Oh, yes. feeling i really i mean i like that when i discover something like you know like when i got into steven universe and then i'm like up all night on the steven universe wiki like looking up every minor you know character and detail and everything like those are that's an exciting time i love that oh i i totally agree all right well let's talk about our let's talk about our

challenge and then um i'm gonna i gotta go meet my parents at the date farm for breakfast the date Tate Farm.

AlexI hope it's the fruit. Dig Dug Challenge. Slide right. It's Merlin's Challenge this week. What was it? I think we said it already. Was it mine? It was, I think. I don't know. Max's Challenge?

MerlinNo.

AlexIt's Merlin's.

MerlinChallenge, Challenge this week. God, this week. Fuck me gently. This challenge is from maybe five or six weeks ago. It was a much fresher concept. well okay there's this there's this upstart movie that you might want to check out it's called spider-man into the spider-verse and uh the challenge was to go see that and be prepared to discuss it which everybody has done since then oh i still think i still think there's a lot to say

Maxabout this i don't have a lot to add about that to the spider-man like discourse but i fucking love this movie you know i don't really like superhero i don't think super i i okay i i enjoy watching superhero movies the same way I enjoy watching Survivor. I think they're interesting, but I don't think it's great art. This was a really artful good film, and there's a lot to chew on afterwards. I'm very eager to see it again. I did fall asleep during some of the fight sequences, but I'm going to try and watch it again and stay awake during all the fighting. Black Panther?

AlexAll those rhinos.

MaxI liked it. I liked one of my favorite details that I haven't seen anyone else notice is when they go into the multiverse it's all uh cmyk separated i don't know if anyone caught that but it's kind of a fun where the registration will be off sometimes yeah yeah like it's just but also like the color like you know when it's new york is glitching out because the the the whatever the universe split or whatever when the machine turned on it's all cmyk it's all like comic book um print print you know the base colors the comic books are printed but i just

thought that was a fun just you know it's like it's like the level of detail that that movie bothered to care about um that uh that made it that made it great how we cover but worth mentioning

Merlinis just stuff like there's all the stuff that everybody's talked about about animating on the twos and all that which i still don't completely understand but i think is very interesting to learn about but just the decisions to do the different kinds of animation for different kinds of characters and like in the case of miles the way that he is he's a character of cg but how do you even talk about this without sounding stupid it's not it's like not a comic book movie but it's a comic book as a movie it's difficult to talk about but you look and like what's

so the first time i saw it was in the last row and then when my daughter and i saw at alamo we were in the first row and in the first row you can really there's so much crazy detail with the bende dots and the hatching and the lines on the faces and all that stuff that's just so delightfully well done. What do you think, Alex?

AlexI intentionally I don't think I've really talked about this. I went full media blackout as soon as I saw the teaser trailer. So I had no idea who was in this movie. I did not know which Spider's men were going to be in here. And I saw it last night at midnight. I don't know when I saw it, but it was like the last screening because I wanted to come in fresh. So I'm sure that I'm going to repeat a ton of the hashtag discourse but i i've been reading some stuff this this morning and kind of i keep thinking of that

toy story scene you link to this gif a lot of the uh sewing of woody's arm back on yeah they did not have to have miles miles is like little uh spider man no need for any of this to look as good as it looks totally unnecessary right right it's it was just shocking and it's not that it's realistic it's that all of the levels of detail you can you just know that someone's like of course this is a loose thread from a halloween costume because it's totally shitty but other than that i for once was

not like okay i could use fewer fight sequences these sequences are better choreographed than i think anything I've seen in years not just in super super hero movies but just movies in in general like I was never confused about what was going on I the camera follows and pans all made sense it feels like it was shot with cameras it felt like they were shooting a comic book and I adored every second of it I did the thing where Max has talked about where I got out of the theater

and my jaw was just kind of hanging open and I didn't really say anything for 20 minutes because that was a punch in the face of a movie.

MerlinWhen the movie ends, first ends when he's on the bed and he's laying there and he's looking up and there's that little like, you know, oh my God, it's Gwen. What's that happening? But then even through the credits, through the entire thing, jaw dropping is the way to put it. And, you know, people say this sometimes, I think just because people like to be ejaculatory in their effusive praise. This is the first time in a really long time that I seriously considered if I'd had the time walking straight back in and seeing the movie again a second time if i if i bought you know i actually i've already pre-ordered blu-ray and streaming for this because i'm real worried

about what this is going to look like streaming but um utterly jaw-dropping and you know one thing that's everything's such a cliche you know it's one thing like sort of to your point max maybe with the um with so many different kinds of movies i think this was supposed to be my theme for last year and now it's kind of unintentionally maybe a theme for this year i'm trying to distinguish when how much of the enjoyment i get out of something comes from nostalgia recognition

Alexand irony and uh sidebar can we should we talk about yearly themes in the after show oh jesus yeah uh want to just masturbate the whole after show all right just something chew on go on

Merlini'm sorry sorry we can't do that i don't i don't understand your obsession with with certain things. I don't understand. Yes, I would be happy to talk about it.

MaxShe got bitten by the radioactive centipede.

AlexI'm a pee person.

Speaker ANo, you got bitten by a radioactive CGP gray. Here's the funny part.

MerlinIt's not like this movie doesn't have references to Easter eggs. It's chock-a-block with those. But Max, I feel like when I'm watching a superhero blockbuster, even if you're not a comic book fan, when you're watching the superhero thing, you're waiting for the thing. You're waiting for that guy. You're waiting for Superman to tear open his shirt, Clark Kent, and you see the Superman logo. You're waiting for the payoff. You're waiting for all the touchstones. You're waiting for the catchphrases. You're waiting for all of those things. And so I just want to set aside Spider-Man for a minute and say that, like, you know, the best superhero movies are not, like, constituted solely of callbacks and just, you know, reiterating a theme.

And they're certainly not beautifully crafted, whereas this one, the craft is so aggressively, the craft of this whole movie is so aggressive. I was like, yes, keep coming at me. Keep coming at me. Keep making it weirder. Keep, like, just the fucking spray painting in the subway scene is, like, a wonder. of the way that his uncle is sitting, and the way that the colors look, and the advice that he gives him, and the music that's playing. And the whole thing is, like I said, the first day I saw it, I have never seen a mainstream movie quite like this. You could see a Tartofsky movie,

or you could go see something like Hero. You could go and see a wire movie, kung fu movie. This movie was so visually overwhelming in the best way. But then, the other point I want to make real quick, now when they do the funny bits and they do the call outs and they do the recognition not only do they have they earned that but there's always a fucking twist every time they do it okay let's do this one more time and you're like yes do this one more time that's so fucking great he's a pig that got bit what he's a spider that got bitten by a pig and the pig is named aunt may

yes keep more more more because it earns every single one of the even the dumb bit of sweatpants spider-man having a snowman for a head i love my god it was so good it was still it was like a cartoon and they did it for a minute but like i'll just conceptually execution storytelling and just the visuals of this were like it's i don't want there's no need for me to give this any award or adulation except that like this is why movies are good like something like this is why movies are good i don't know if we'll feel that way in 10 years but like i i was overwhelmed in

the best possible way and i think about this movie every single day how many times did you cry

Alexat least three oh come on come on come on you cried at this movie matchy was keeping a tally during the movie and uh 13 13 13 leap of faith leap of faith leap of faith the fucking robot oh my gosh oh the robot my daughter's obsessed with penny parker she can't find enough penny

Maxparker she's so obsessed she's the best listen i would prefer to live in a culture that could produce like original stories where we didn't we weren't stuck in this like stasis of like telling the same children's story over and over and over but i guess if we have to do it this was a really

Merlinfresh take on it well the gauntlet the gauntlet's fucking down on this yeah this and i like i mean

Maxit was it was it was really it was a fresh superhero movie and i like i agree with you Merlin, like my, my biggest complaint about any of these like franchise movies or reboots or any of this kind of stuff is like, I always think of it as checklist filmmaking where they start before there's, you know, think of the new star Trek movie, the JJ Abrams star Trek movies, which are real, those movies really bug me. But you know, that before there was a draft of the script or they had any concept or any ideas for that movie, they sat down with a checklist and they were like, okay, what do we got? Star Trek. We got to say, beam me up, Scotty. We got to say, I'm a doctor,

not a blank we got to get the phasers to fall we got to get you know you know what i mean like

Merlinyeah yeah yeah all those little it's like each one's like a little comfort meal yeah like all

Maxticking off all the boxes right and then and you're and then as a viewer there's a little cat and mouse game of when are they going to say it when are they going to say it there we said it and they're gonna you know have a big sting of music or whatever like i yeah and and this movie i agree with you this movie was was great like who puts on their spider-man checklist the the ice cream you know the melted ice cream thing right like that was pretty funny i don't think

Alexthere were any i i mean there's check marks in terms of like the hero's story of okay he puts the suit on but other than that like he's like with great power comes don't even finish that sentence i know and when he they're listing all the tragedies that went through like for me it was my uncle ben and just when a spider noir or whatever is like for me it was my uncle benjamin like they're just active that's one of my favorites the wind follows me and smells like rain

Maxdid you catch that that was uh nicholas cage yeah yes yeah it was but like but yeah i i

Merlini don't know i mean this doesn't need my my praise but like just the the fact that they they let's be honest they they did a ton of the uh the you know checking off that they did but like So I said this on a Slack, I think in The Incomparable, but like, I don't know if I've ever seen, I don't know if I've ever seen a mainstream movie that felt quite as aggressively fresh as this did while I was watching it. But also the thing that's really hard to pull off is this is also without question the nerdiest Marvel related movie ever.

No question. I mean, there's even a scene where you can see when the when Kingpin fucking Kingpin. When you see up on the on, you see when you see up on the display, you see all those numbers connecting together. Those are all nerd code for the different Marvel universes. Like right now we live in six one six and like all those point together. That's so deeply nerdy. All of these really weird, fringy. But all at the same time, I would argue easily one of the most artistic. I mean, everything else looks so wooden. How did you guys feel?

MaxHow did you guys feel about the text on the screen? I felt like that was one choice that I understand that you can't have a movie where it's really fresh and they're reinventing things and they like every artistic choice that they make. But for me, one of the artistic choices that I wasn't into was the amount of literally writing text on the screen as though it was a comic book where when someone would skid to a halt and then the dust would spell out skid.

MerlinA yellow box is usually like, you know, in that case, internal monologue. Like when he's running through the, why is everything so loud? Why are these voices in my head? Yeah. I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it, not least because it was so fast. It went by so fast. I could have done without it. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough.

AlexI could have done with slightly less. It's kind of when a show like cracks the fourth wall, but they don't want to break it all the way. And it's like, it's a half failure. But it was kind of like the thing of like, okay, you didn't need bagel. You didn't need a gigantic whomp. But I liked it when it was a subtle thing and someone skids to a halt. I loved all that subtle stuff because people, it both, sir, I agree with you, Merlin. It is the nerdiest movie I think I have ever seen outside of like Scott Pilgrim in terms of comic book movies.

but it's also I think the most accessible Super Halo movie since the Dark Knight that's the thought

MerlinI didn't get to finish it is the nerdiest no no no no no but that's all I was gonna say was it is the nerdiest um but it's also the most challenging yet it is still arguably I don't know if it's the most accessible I mean it's probably something like Captain America is a lot more accessible but this is outside the MCU this is Sony but isn't it funny that like that it's somebody has really thrown down the gauntlet with this in terms of like what what we would expect of this and now But it was funny, like watching YouTube videos about this, because of course I'm watching YouTube videos about this, they'll show little scenes from this that are just electric.

And then you'll see like an actor in his 30s loping around with CG. And you're like, wow, that looks so community theater next to this. You know, this is so lively. Yeah, I loved it.

AlexI mean, I was serious when I was like, for extra credit, watch Venom, because it's one of the other movies that isn't in the MCU. and they didn't really get it's not a good movie it's very bad but i love it because they were it's almost started like oh yeah we're gonna write a basic superhero movie and then they realized but we don't need to no one's going to put this into anything so let's just fucking make something weird and it's it's not a movie written by a committee they know that it's that venom is a

failure as a franchise that the mcu is eventually taking it over so it was like whatever we're in

Maxthis felt the same way isn't the right way made like a billion dollars though like it didn't it

Alexwasn't like a monster box office success but they did not expect that it was panned so hard when it came out by critics but everyone was like oh this is a fun stupid thing okay chapa wasn't crazy about

Maxit did they back did they backdoor some sort of like chinese state ideology in it so it got like a big international release.

MerlinI didn't know that.

MaxThat's like, that's like what happened with like the world, like World of Warcraft. Like if you watch that movie, it's like they, or Pacific Rim or a few of these other movies, they've like backdoored so much like Chinese state propaganda into those films and mythology and things like that, that it's like, because they're gaming the system so they can get a wide theatrical release in China.

MerlinWho specifically, who specifically, not they, but who specifically said, let's take some Chinese stuff and get it in a way that Americans can be tricked into not noticing it. Who made that decision?

MaxI assume the studio. I assume the studio is like, okay, we're going to spend a billion dollars.

MerlinSo the studio sends a memo that says, make this more Chinese.

MaxYeah, basically. So I think that the studio, these movie studios know that they can, if the movie gets, so the state controls what movies get distributed in China. And I think that the movie studios know this game now, where they're like, if we backdoor enough sort of state-approved Chinese, mythology and party propaganda into the film, it's going to get a monster-wide release in China, and it's going to do a ton of... It's going to do really well in international box office.

Listen, I don't know what I'm talking about. Todd should tell us more about this, but I guarantee you, I saw World of Warcraft. We went with a bunch of friends who were big Warcraft fans, and that movie was a real piece of shit. But I saw when I was watching it, I was like, damn, there's so much Chinese creation myth, mythology in this movie. And then and I was like, I bet they're going for the international box office. And sure enough, if you look at the numbers that that movie did, it was kind of a bomb in the US, but it was just a beast in China. It made so much money in China.

AlexI mean, there's a difference between playing to an international audience and putting weird state ideology like they recut a ton of Captain America to just play better internationally because they're like, OK, no one knows this. They won't know these references. They did indeed forget Pearl Harbor, so we're going to take out some references from that. So that I buy. I don't know about catering specifically to – I mean, I don't know. Aren't they – I don't know.

Someone – by someone I mean Todd. Please help.

MaxSend a tweet to at hot dogs ladies if you know anything about this.

MerlinI got a question for you, though, Max. We got to cut out soon. You tell me you didn't cry when Thor died in the Star Trek movie at the beginning?

MaxThor died?

MerlinWhen George Kirk dies, you didn't cry about that?

MaxNo, no. I didn't. No, I was confused.

MerlinI thought that was so affecting. I thought that was so affecting.

MaxReally? I was so confused. I was so confused. He's having a baby. They're rushing her off the ship. You know what? I have to go back. I only saw the first Star Trek movies one time each, and I guess I should probably go back and rewatch them. I was so disoriented by how wrong everything was, and I had my antennas up, and I did not. I did not cry. No.

MerlinHmm. I did not cry. Did you cry when Thor died?

AlexI don't remember.

MerlinThor dies at the beginning.

AlexI don't remember anything.

MerlinIt's a Chris. It's a Chris crossover. It's Chris. Chris.

Chris.

MerlinChris.

Speaker AChris crossover. That's stupid. Now, that'd be funny if they put Chris Cross in a Star Trek movie. They wear their pants backwards in their youths. Boom, boom, boom.

MaxWhat if we got. OK, I'm just thinking back about our McCandy great again. And if we were to sort of backdoor some Chinese propaganda, like maybe when you unwrap your beer barrels, it's got some sort of statement about party unity in there. I mean, I think that they would give us some convertible notes.

MerlinWho's going to notice? Who's going to notice? These people aren't going to even read their fortunes. They're not going to know somebody's tracked in a Chinese cookie factory. They won't even know who nobody reads anymore.

MaxOkay, what about this? What about this? Roll-themed candy, right? Because that's going to appeal to everyone. That's going to hit our base, and trust me, the Chinese are going to be heavily into that.

MerlinIt's the only candy that's visible from space.

AlexYou know, we've talked about a lot of things, but haven't you guys, since it comes out, thought about the title of Bandersnatch and just thought it was basically a convict vagina?

MerlinConvict vagina?

AlexYeah, I didn't know. No, but it's like a bandit snatcher.

MerlinIt sounds like cockney rhyming slang for something vagina related.

AlexIt's okay. I just wanted to make sure.

Speaker ACut a catch in me bandersnatch.

AlexI've been thinking about it for two hours.

Speaker AOi, gov, there's a bandersnatch underneath. In the lorry. Oi, get your torch in the lorry, gov. What's all this in? What's this you bringing contraband in your bandersnatch?

MerlinBandersnatch. That sounds adorable. Oh, it does. It's a tiny, tiny little vagina of a thing.

112. Make America Candy Again

Show notes

Transcript

112. Make America Candy Again

Show notes

Transcript

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