106. The Cool Table at the Magic Convention

Speaker AThis is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, share your secret Krampus ideas.

Do By Friday.

AlexOh, you sound sleepy, Merlin.

MerlinIt's a holiday time I gotta do multiple shows, I'm exhausted We're three minutes early Yeah, but I had to record before this Hey, do you want Friday? Woo!

AlexTalk about a French goodbye, we're having Thanksgiving at the office, and you'd think it would be easy for me to just say, oh, I got a meeting, gotta go do something Wait, who's having Thanksgiving at the office? All of the office people I don't know, it was in Slack Today? Yeah oh i completely miss this it's adorable just go on instagram you're not missing anything except people then hey hey hey let's talk let's talk and i'm like i love you very much but instagram okay yeah cats was that a story mountains is that a story no no i did not

take any photographs of people eating food no one's ever attractive eating food no i mean are

MaxAre you telling a story right now?

AlexI'm telling a story. I'm not telling an Instagram story. I'm very confused about this nomenclature. All right. There's Jen's dog. Oh, you're still there.

MerlinEh, for now. Potatoes. Children. Max doing a card trick. Max with a max. Stewart. Wellington kissing a dog.

Okay. Okay. Faces, faces, faces.

MaxHey, do my Friday.

MerlinHey, it's happening. Woo. Happy holidays. Oh, boy. Happy holidays.

AlexIt seems like neither of you are excited. And, man, do I love a good holiday and leaving before it's appropriate. Yes.

MerlinLooks like you got like a snowman on one of your night tables.

AlexHmm. Oh, are you zooming? I do.

MerlinNo, it's just right there. You're under some kind of a fuzzy blanket.

Alexthere's two cats and it looks like you decorated your bed uh let me oh let me see what i have been putting on instagram i think it was your partner oh what good radio oh i'm so glad that that is oh yep that that's that's there's my ipad there's my cat tree there's my snowman this is such good

MerlinOh, precious angel.

AlexOh, there you go.

MerlinAre you guys pumped?

AlexI am so pumped.

MaxWoo! I think I need some coffee, but we're all recording from different locations, and I'm not in the office, and I can't order anyone to go get me the coffee. Oh, man. Is anybody there at your house besides you?

Veronica's here, but she's making pies, and I don't think it would be really appropriate for me to say, bring me a coffee in the studio here. But also, I don't think Veronica doesn't drink coffee, so I don't think she would know how to make it. It would be very interesting if I asked her, make coffee.

MerlinOh, you should see what she comes up with. Yeah.

MaxOh, this seems... She'd just put the beans in a cup with hot water.

AlexOh, what we should do is both Veronica and I make you a cup of coffee, and it's a blind taste test. See which is worse. Who can sort of assemble the correct amount of bean water. This is just pretend you're having Diet Coke like me.

MaxOh, Gizmodo. Follow up. Gizmodo. This month, California has been gripped by three devastating wildfires. Northern California's Camp Fire, which recently became the deadliest in the state's history. And in Southern California, the Wolseley and Hill Fires. An emerging, deeply weird conspiracy theory holds that those fires aren't caused by wind patterns, brutally dry conditions, and the worsening effects of climate change or possibly downed power lines, but by a sinister scheme directed by nefarious elements within the government. The claim, being taken up by an increasing number of people in QAnon circles,

is that the fires are caused by, quote, directed energy weapons. That is, government-directed lasers bent on destroying homes, property, and lives. And if recent history is any judged, there's a chance the country's biggest conspiracy peddlers, up to and including the one who lives in the White House, will take up the cause. Directed energy weapons, or DEWs, have an interesting place in conspiratorial circles.

MerlinThey seem big in the targeted individual community.

MaxOh, we're just barreling towards that right now. DEWs are, to begin with, a real technology, but one still in its infancy. A report produced for Congress describes that term as an umbrella to refer to technologies, quote, that produced concentrated electromagnetic energy and atomic or subatomic particles. The consensus is that there are a number of logistical issues to work out before the U.S. government will be able to build a laser system that would actually be workable on a battlefield. That's what they tell you. That's what they want you to believe. But that the Department of Defense and private contractors are eager to leverage laser power towards killing people and or destroying enemy missiles, aircrafts, and satellites.

However, if you ask people, in the deep end of the conspiracy theory pool, though, DEWs are here already. There is a small body of people who believe themselves to be, quote, targeted individuals stalked, harassed, and attacked by the government or other shadowy groups. And at least some of them believe those attacks are being carried out by DEWs. Now, through a strange confluence of forces, the paranoia over to EWs is making its way into the discussion about natural disasters. What we're seeing is a convergence of longstanding American fears about government mind control and manipulation of the weather, merging with climate change skepticism as climate science becomes ever more politicized.

MerlinThank you. This is like, I bet it was like Graham Moff Tarkin. No spoilers, blowing up Alderaan, right? He's testing out the operational capabilities.

MaxOh, deep cut there. I don't want to alarm you, but these were pretty close to your home. These are. Yeah, they could shoot a do at me. Did you, I mean, do you think that it's possible that maybe, you know, I'm not saying that you are targeted at an individual, but there's a lot of these fires going on around.

MerlinI got a lot of magnets on my iPad, too. Like, there's a lot of ways they could detect my energy and then direct energy at me with a weapon. They could do me. Follow your movements. Do the do.

MaxIf they're following the magnets.

MerlinIf they're following the magnets. If you saw MKBHD rub some plastic on there and showed you how many magnets are on the back of that, you think you can't use that to target me? Follow the white magnet. Follow the white magnet. See? Get it? Seven meats, three cheeses. You get it? Are you seeing this? Do we love this, folks?

MaxNo.

MerlinWe love the losers. No. So, no, no. Help me with this because I haven't read this article. So, was it a Grand Moff Tarkin situation? Did they go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, and they accidentally caused wildfires with it?

MaxNow, I think what happened, let's say that I don't want to say that you're a targeted individual or not. Okay. If these fires were starting to burn down your home or not. Oh, they just missed.

MerlinI see.

MaxOkay. Yeah, but if the government did have lasers, I mean, they would. This is what they would do, right? Is they'd be aiming for your house. They'd be tracking the magnets. But yeah, but then they'd have, you know, a guy would have a hot dog for lunch. He'd have a little hot dog grease on his finger and he'd move the targeting just a little bit.

MerlinIt's like Melissa McCarthy in Ghostbusters where she tries to shoot the dingus and she ends up flying around. But see, here's the other thing. If you're targeted, they want to really mess with you. So they're like, see, that could have been you. And now you're wondering. Now they're inside your head with the do's. Even if they didn't do you, so to speak, directly, I could do this anytime. You know what I'm saying?

MaxI will say we make fun of the targeted individual people.

MerlinI think it's out of sympathy.

MaxYeah, but I can see where they're coming from because have you ever had this experience of like sometimes I'm – well, just today, Veronica and I were walking home from breakfast and there was like an unmarked police car like parked just one house – on the street like one house down from us.

MerlinQuote unquote unmarked police car.

MaxYeah, and my first thought was like they're on to me. This is it? Yeah. Yeah, they're coming for me.

MerlinWell, I think that all the time when you see a van that's like a white van, like a cargo van, and it says, like, very normal professional service on the side or whatever. Like, you know that's full of operatives. Yeah.

MaxOh, they're not really a federal boobie inspector.

MerlinYou can just buy those hats on Amazon. Can I see some documentation, please? I don't know, man. Now, how would you know? Okay, Alex, let me ask you this. I don't want you to say whether or not you are known to be a targeted individual. I will say this in as much as you're comfortable saying with your infosec and OPSEC, how would you know, do you think, if you were a targeted individual? What would be different? What would you notice? Okay, last night, last night, a roll of gorilla tape fell off something in my house.

And I thought, I didn't do that. What made the gorilla tape fall down? How even did that happen? And I thought for a minute, maybe I'm targeted. Maybe I got ghosts. How would you know?

AlexThey would replace my cats with them behaving just normal enough that I'd be like, mm, mm. Like they're not opening the cabinets. It's when things get normal in my life that I'm like, mm, mm.

MerlinThey open cabinets, Alex?

AlexYeah, and the fridge. He locks himself in the fridge sometimes.

MerlinWait a minute. You kidding? No.

AlexI wish.

MerlinYour cat opens the refrigerator?

AlexHe's very strong. It's not a bit.

MerlinHe's got extra muscles, but that said so.

AlexHe's lumpy with muscles. It's better. We have a friend, Trin, whose cat can open the freezer. So that seems much more dangerous. But yeah. I, yeah. Maddie would start reading like Moby Dick. I don't know. That's, yeah.

MerlinWhat about you, Max? If you did know to a fair certainty that you were targeted, what would you do differently? If you can say, what would you change up about the way you roll? would you do anything differently would you take different paths would you uh there's a few there's

Maxa few fans of this very podcast who i think there's a let's say greater than 30 chance that eventually they'll murder us and wear our skins as a suit oh it's not an if it's a it's a win

Merlinit's a win yeah i would agree with that there's a few of them that really freak me out really huh

Maxyeah what do we do differently not much no get ready you're gonna be appearing in court i just

AlexI just want to say, I'm not saying what Max is saying.

MerlinIt's hard to know when you're targeted. But like, you know, I also think about this. Okay. Okay. I'm going to be a little bit normative. If you've ever been, you don't do so much public transit there. But like, have you ever noticed? Wait, yes, we do. Yeah. Well, okay.

MaxBut like, when somebody, how does one say? Wait, I'm sorry. You live in San Francisco and you're saying Chicago's public, people in Chicago don't do a lot of public transit?

MerlinLet's say you're somewhere in public and there's a person of the streets and the person of the streets is behaving erratically.

AlexYes.

MerlinThe person of the streets is perhaps being menacing to other people. Did you ever notice how the person of the streets tends to be erratic with people who just want to get on with their day? Why do they never fight each other? Why do you never see two erratic people going at it with each other? You don't see it very much.

AlexOh, I.

MerlinSo is it like zombies where they know, like, don't don't bite that guy or I'm just saying it's it's it's kind of tricky. It's kind of tricky. Those could be those could be operatives.

AlexSo the poor schizophrenic folks on the street. Wow. They're targeting. I'm sorry. I'm very sorry.

MerlinYou do a lot. You do a lot. You do a lot to help people in that area. Now you're using these hateful words.

AlexI know. It's very problematic.

MerlinI'm just saying, like, here's another problem, though. Let's say, okay, so normally a person who's being erratic is normally erratic outwards. Like, yeah, but, like, it would be really weird if you saw two erratic people going at each other, like, neighborhood stick fight style. But, like, what if somebody was, like, there was, like, 12 different erratic people all going after you at the same time and they weren't even working together? Like, how would you even know how to fight that?

MaxOh.

MerlinYou know, would you like fight a duck-sized horse or a horse-sized duck?

MaxYou know what I mean? Well, that's a little bit how I feel on Halloween because you get – it's not just one teenager who comes to your door that might make fun of you, but you're going to have like a dozen of them. It's very intimidating. Now, at Halloween at our house, in the early waves of the afternoon, around 4 o'clock or 5 o'clock when things really get cooking, you have adorable kids and they come up.

MerlinYou get babies in arms. You get little wolverines like little cutie pies. light is still out, right? You still got sunshine, and the kids got their little pumpkins.

MaxAnd they've got a matching concept costume with the parents, right? It's very adorable, and they come up and they're like, may I please have one piece of candy? And you're like, yes, happy Halloween. You give them one, and they go away. They're very excited. And then, when it gets into the... It's kind of a gradual transition, and it gets into the dregs of the night, and then it turns into, like, the nighttime carnival, right? I feel like a gang of surly teenagers, They like Tokyo drift into into my street on like a pickup truck and I'll bail out and start pounding on my door. And like, what do you got, old man?

And they're all Stuart Dooley. I don't want I don't want them to make any comments about your shirts too small.

Speaker BYour cameras are dumb. That's poor. Your dad's a magician.

MerlinDid you guys watch the Magic Boy? Did you guys watch the Magic Boy who won the competition? The Magic Boy who won the competition. This was sent to us by many people. This was sent to me by several different...

MaxOh, the FISM winner, the guy... What's his name?

MerlinThe Grand Prix guy with the ribbit. Did you watch that effect?

MaxYes, that was amazing.

MerlinIt was amazing, yes. And I think it was amazing. I watched some reaction videos from professional magicians. That's how deep I went. And my sense is that a lot of people know what techniques you would use to do that. But it seems like some people are still like, wow, that technique was done so well, it almost seems like he did something else. Did you watch it, Alex?

AlexI did not, no.

MerlinEric Chan. Yeah.

MaxYeah. Yeah, I watched it. I've watched it three or four times and there's some stuff that I can spot and be like, I know. I mean, I can't say I know exactly. I can't say I know I didn't.

MerlinLike when he's passing the blue to red with his hand, like I had a feeling like I got that. But like the cutting the card with the ribbon, do you have a sense how he did that?

MaxNo, there's a lot of things. I mean, I don't want to say – I have theories and thoughts that I'm not going to say on the podcast. Yeah, yeah. No, I understand you shouldn't say. I could tell you offline.

MerlinYou don't want Max Maven. No, no, I don't want to know. You don't want Max Maven on your ass.

MaxThat's true.

MerlinI really do think he could curse me. He's so cool. I went back and watched. I remember him being a – I mean he seems like one of those like magician's magician kind of guys that like I think he's like consulted with people and stuff. But his over-the-top like 80s appearances are so great. He's so all in on his like persona and it's delightful.

MaxWell, he has the greatest line. He has the greatest line in all of magic entertainment, which is he – for Max Maven, if you don't know, he may be the greatest living magician. He's certainly a contender. He's published over 1,500 tricks, one of the best living carb magicians, but mostly well known as a mentalist. And he has a really severe kind of warlock look that's very affected, right?

MerlinHe's got a natural widow's peak that he then like shoe polishes in to look like Ming the Merciless.

MaxHe's got and he comes out on stage. He's wearing a black sort of tunic and he's got heavy eyeshadow on.

MerlinHe's like a comic character. He looks like a living comic book character.

MaxHe really does. He looks like something out of Doctor Strange. And he comes on stage and, you know, there's a real moment of tension when he comes out, especially if he's performing for an audience that doesn't know him because they're like, what the fuck is this guy's deal? And, like, you know, they're like uncomfortable, right? Because this guy comes out and you're like, am I going to feel bad for the next hour? This is going to be weird or uncomfortable. He looks like an Amber Alert waiting to happen. he does and he comes up

right up to the microphone and he gets he gets right up close to the microphone and he just goes boo and it gets a huge laugh it just it kills every time yes because there's this huge sense of relief of like okay he gets it he's in on the joke he's funny

Merlinbut his stage his stage work is really good he's got a really good like patter and working with the audience he's so good yeah but Alex you should watch you should watch the you should watch that card trick

AlexI have to say I was very excited to learn that Max Maven was alive. I didn't know that. And I saw the picture. I was like, oh, oh, God. Well, I saw him when I was like eight years old. And it was not a great experience for me. He saw him live? Yeah, he does. I don't think he travels anymore. Well, again, now that I know that he's alive.

MaxHe was just in Chicago at the Magic Lounge.

AlexYeah, yeah. Oh, man, we got to talk about the Magic Lounge at some point. But, oh, my God. I think that was the first time where I saw magic and I'm like, oh, this isn't lame. This is cool. And because, you know, at eight, you still have a strong concept of what's lame and what's cool. But, oh, he is a terrifying, terrifying man in the best way because he's funny. But then you're still like, oh, he could do he's going to do the thing. He's going to do a thing. And I mean, then the best possible way.

MaxSo I met Max Maven this weekend and I was in L.A. I went to go meet up with my dad and my dad and I went to a magic conference together because now I'm really into magic and my dad's been into magic for a while and forever. And it's kind of a cool thing that we can do together. And it's fun because we're peers, right? It's not like, I don't know. It's like a fun thing where we're both interested in it and no one's like, you know, it's not like my dad coming to my comedy show or me going to like.

MerlinIt's not like he made you get into baseball or something.

MaxRight, right. But, yeah, it was a really fun and special weekend. And so Max Maven was there. And, you know, after the thing, people were kind of hanging out and getting drinks. And, of course, like I think everyone there probably wanted to hang out with Max Maven and hear him tell stories and ask him about magic stuff or whatever. And he was kind of hanging out by himself. And I think because of I think just because of who he is and and his reputation in the magic world and also like the fact that he looks like a wizard.

I think maybe people were kind of scared to talk to him or, you know, people were a little scared. Like, I don't know. Like, yeah, there's got to be people like that in our industry. Like if you were at a cocktail party and Tim Cook was there, like, don't you think he'd people would be a little intimidated to go up and be like, hey, Tim, what's good?

MerlinYeah, there's a little weird kind of invisible wall that anybody with taste and social skills would feel a little bit awkward about approaching somebody. I could totally see that.

MaxWell, my dad, who has neither of those things, goes right up to him and sits down at the table. And he goes, hey, Max, let's hang out. And it was a thing that I would never do in a million years. I would have absolutely left without ever talking to Max Maven. But because my dad did that and it was like, oh, hey, meet my son. He's also named Max. And we wound up sitting and drinking and telling magic. And he was like told us magic stories all night. And it was an amazing night. Oh, that's exciting.

MerlinOh, good for you, man.

MaxAnd then because my dad just, he just did it. He, you know, he just sat down and started talking with them. It kind of opened it up for all of the other like lecturers and performers and cool magicians to come and join us. And then it just became like the cool table at the magic convention, which is, you know, I recognize.

AlexThank you.

MaxTitle.

Alexfor someone so afraid of teenagers i just really like that you started the cool table at the magic

Maxno i i didn't my dad my dad oh thank you professor temkin sat he just sat down and he just sat down and it was kind of incredible he just sat down and started talking to these people in a way where i would have never i mean i have other ways of maybe getting to meet people being like you know i could ask what would i might ask someone a mutual friend for an introduction or you know there's other strategies.

MerlinI don't want to. Yeah. Okay. You have strategies.

MaxYou hypnotize them with your rings.

MerlinYou wear your big hat. Throw a drink on them.

MaxYeah. You got to peacock a little bit.

MerlinI imagine there's a fair amount of Venn diagram with the pickup culture.

MaxMagic guys, pickup guys. Oh, 100. Absolutely. A lot of people do magic because they want to meet girls.

MerlinNot all magicians are pickup artists, but I bet almost all pickup artists are magicians. And they're getting quality women. They get quality women.

MaxI think like I can say now that I'm pretty deep into the magic world and stuff that almost like any other scene, I hate. There's about well over 50 percent of it that I like hate. And I think it's like lamentable and awful and bad. And it's a – I think you always get to that thing when you get into a new hobby or a new scene or a new art or whatever.

MerlinIt's so fun to be a grownup. It really is. You get to see so many things that are inevitably disappointing. It's horrible.

MaxAnd it's like, yeah, you're like, here's this thing I've been interested in my whole life. And now that I know a little bit too much about it, like almost all of it is just like dominated by like creeps and sociopaths. And it's all sexual assault and insider trading.

MerlinI mean, it's just everywhere you go. It's some combination. Man, there's a movie that somehow I don't know how this happened, but I know we've talked about here before. But there's a movie called Ricky Jay. It's called Deceptive Practice. The Mysteries and Mentors of Ricky Jay. And I don't simply want to recommend this movie. I don't want to oversell it. But this is a movie that I have watched many times. And it still delights me. It's very well made. He's a very interesting guy.

It includes lots of footage of his background. I mean, the joke on Roddick Online is like, you know, you can't get rid of these cards. But, like, it's such a fun movie. And he's so dedicated to just spending hours a day with cards and just watching his performances. You can find his stage show out there. The David Mammon stage show he did is out there if you look for it. But I would just recommend Deceptive Practice, The Mysteries and Mentors of Ricky G.

MaxSure. It sure looks like it is free streaming on Amazon Prime. Excellent. Excellent.

MerlinYou guys have seen it, right?

AlexYeah.

MerlinI have not.

MaxThat's Merlin's Pick of the Week.

MerlinYeah, yeah. It's really good because it's based on his book. And it's essentially like talking about the importance of mentors and how much he's a historian of magic. He owns all these old books on magic. One of the largest supposedly magic libraries in the world. Anyway, and it basically goes through. It's a lot learning about Ricky Jay, learning about his shows. But it's very well put together. And the huge part of it, the temple of it is like what he's learned from his relationships with these other magicians, including Cardini and all these other guys. And you get to see him do lots of great magic. You see lots of old footage.

but you just walk away going like you know it's sort of like you are now max i mean you get kind of obsessed is that the right word but like you put so much time into the craft of this to make it look easy and like he just spends hours a day like just sitting in a room shuffling cards still and it's it's it's there's something um kind of it's weird and amazing and as with all these things i'm like i always like to say i'm interested in anybody who's excited about what they're doing But I'm also interested in like corners of any area that I don't know a lot about. And this was not knowing a ton about magic.

It was neat to see like how these people think and operate and work their craft.

AlexIf I was the kind of person who watched a lot of magic videos and a kind of person who watched a lot of documentaries, this one's actually good. Like it is the genre of documentary, kind of like you said, where you just see people who are very good and very passionate. But it's not like a how to.

MerlinDon't you think as a documentarian, wouldn't you agree it's like it's well structured, it's well put together?

AlexI was not expecting to have a good time. I was like, you're not going to have a good time. But it's an actually good film. And I can't overstate that enough. That if you're like, it's going to be another YouTube-y magic tutorial. It's so good. The end. Thought finished.

MaxMerlin, I want to go back to the wildfires for a minute. Let's circle back. Do you guys have the fires?

MerlinNo. No, we have the resulting poor air quality. The fires are happening many dozens of miles north. But yeah, no, we're in our second week of like, I think it was, what is today? Today's Tuesday. I think it was on, I want to say probably Saturday. It was into like extremely bad. My family bought and is using masks like old Chinese ladies.

MaxLike we actually wear masks to walk around now. Do you, have you done the thing where you put an air filter over the box fan?

MerlinNo.

MaxWhat?

MerlinI didn't get, I was in receipt. No, I want to hear about that. I am in my second week of receipt of the fancy air cleaner. And it came at such a perfect time. Tell me about the box fan cleaner.

MaxOh, I've just seen this posted a lot. I'm surprised you haven't seen this on your feed because it seems like everyone's like posting it on Twitter. But basically you take like the filter that goes in your HVAC system. Yeah. What is it? Like a square like HEPA filter or whatever. And you just duct tape it to a box fan.

MerlinOh, wow. It's literally that.

MaxYeah. So does that make sense? So the fans suck.

MerlinYeah, I'm seeing it right now. There's tons of these. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get a square filter that is exactly the size of one of these Amazon Prime fans and you just run it. Wow, that's really interesting.

MaxYeah. If I was in the bay, that's probably what I would be doing.

MerlinIt's pretty bad. So now in addition to things like humidity and all the Internet of Things things, now I also got an air quality monitor. It's kind of fancy.

MaxOh, which one did you get? Which one did you get? I also got one.

MerlinFubot.

AlexFubot.

MerlinFubot.

MaxF-U-B-O-T. F-O-O-B-O-T.

MerlinIt's really cool. If you knock twice on the top of it, it sends a push notification to your phone with the air quality on it.

AlexOh, I hate how much I love this already.

MerlinYeah, it's really good. Oh, I do. You can change. So you get orange lights that get higher when it's bad. Blue lights get higher when it's good. It does CO2, particulate matter, and carbon dioxide.

And you can send it to Iftisita. So I have it send to Iftisita. And every five minutes, it sends a line to Iftisita. So I can put it. I can say what I changed environmentally and watch how it affects what happens.

Why is that funny? I like this. No, I did. I tested it for three days. I put it in every room with the Fubot in it. I also have an Eve air quality dingus. Yeah. And so every five minutes it adds a line to Google Sheets.

MaxWhere the fuck do you buy this Fubot? I don't see it.

MerlinI got it from Amazon.

MaxOh.

MerlinBut it seems to work. I'll tell you what's crazy. You know what throws off the house more than anything else is like cooking with the gas range or the gas oven.

MaxLet me show you the one I got. I got the Aware, A-W-Air. A-W-Air, okay. It's the same price as the Fubot. Well, get it today, obviously.

AlexBut it doesn't have a cute name.

MaxAware. But I really like the industrial.

AlexOh, this looks so much better. Oh, yeah, yeah.

I considered this one.

AlexOh, yeah. Just going to sit a robot Funko Pop on top of that. Oh, this is so pretty. It looks like, oh, Max, what are those clocks called that are pretty? Yeah, it's like one of those German.

MaxNow, let's see. I've got one of these. I've got this in my office right here. Ooh, baby, I'm rocking a 98. Got a little green light going. Fubot. Now that's out of 100. It's confusing.

AlexDo you ever puff things into it to see what will happen?

MaxYou know, I've noticed. I have not. That's a really interesting experiment. I have noticed that when I run the vacuum, I have to vacuum down here all the time because I'm constantly, I have my laser cutter down here, and I'm constantly like. Dander. making stuff and I do like woodwork I like do like woodworking Is that what you call it? Yeah, yeah Yeah, I gotta really work some wood and it's just a real disaster so I'm constantly like vacuuming and I have

whenever I run like the shop vac or anything like that I can see the air quality go down a little bit so I think that's because it's kicking dust and particles and stuff into the air

AlexOh, that's not what I was talking about. Way more interesting and practical experiment though i just have one of the um it's not called a conway that's just what i know what's the wire cutter one that's it's the fart cleaner that uh you always get for the cards retreats ding it oh filter yes we have one of those in our bedroom it's like the

Maxthe wire cutter recommend but you're not talking about a sensor you're talking about a an air it's It's just an air filter.

AlexBut it has a little dingus on the top that there's only four different lights, but it goes, they have like a fake percentage on the box.

MaxI mean, all those, really all those things are is a more expensive box fan with a HEPA filter on it.

AlexWell, your cat can't eat it. Also, I'm skeptical of this HEPA filter with a box fan. Why?

MaxIt's the same thing. What do you think is in that Conway air sucker?

AlexBecause it sucks and puffs.

MaxIt's just a fart sucker.

AlexWell, if you are in a very polluted area.

MaxHow do you think a box fan works? How do you think a box fan works?

AlexBut it's not sealed up. Like, are you rubber banding it to the box fan? Also, it could be dispersing some of the stander.

MaxYou duct tape it like in Apollo 13.

AlexOh, okay. All right. Well, I've used all the duct tape on my couch.

MaxYou're saying it's good enough to keep the astronauts alive, but not good enough to filter the farts out of your house?

MerlinWay to throw shade on the astronauts, Alex. Geez.

AlexI'm sorry. Thank you for your service.

Can we circle back to the magic of Christmas for a moment?

MerlinOkay, magic.

AlexOkay, magic. Spoilers for Santa. At what point, did either of you ever believe in Santa?

MaxYes. Really? Got to go no on that.

AlexYeah. Really? How?

MerlinI think you're in the, aren't you in the Elliot Kalin tribe?

AlexNo, I never, I don't know who, I don't know. I just never believed in Santa.

MerlinNo, I meant Max.

AlexOh, sorry.

MerlinI mean, it's, I just, how does one say? What do you mean? You're talking about that Max Maven tribe? I'm talking about the tribe. Not in the tribe. They don't do so much Santa. Right?

MaxYou know Max Maven's real name?

MerlinMax Mavenowitz? Phil Goldstein.

AlexI don't know why I laughed at that. That's not good. That seems to be not something one should laugh at.

MaxTa-da! You know who else is Jewish? Natalie Portman.

AlexYes. Natalie Portman.

MaxAnd Drake.

MerlinDrake. See, this is a whole new world for me, Max. Are there other people that are secret Jews that I don't know about? Play more.

MaxMainly Natalie Portman is the one that comes to mind.

MerlinStan Lee. Late Stan Lee.

MaxStan Lee was Jewish?

MerlinStan Lee. Lieber was? Stan Lee. Lieber. Lieber. Stan Lieber. Really? Wow. Yeah.

MaxAmazing.

MerlinYeah. A lot of times it's hard to tell the Jewish people from the Italian people. Like, I think John Syracuse might be-

MaxThat's why you got to have your lists.

MerlinAnd your calipers. I think that's why John Syracuse might actually be a secret Jew. I don't bring it up a lot. Oh. But it's hard to tell. There's a lot of overflow.

AlexHe has a lot of opinions about bagels.

MerlinHe sure does. He's from Long Island.

AlexYeah. Oh, it's really a toss of a coin there. Yeah.

MerlinMagic of Christmas.

AlexOh, no. I just people were asking about my Santa story. And the only story is I never believed in Santa and it was completely irrational. At all? No.

MerlinOh, wow.

AlexNo, it made no sense.

MerlinIt was too irrational for you, Alex. Is that correct? the notion of Santa in your world, as I understand it, that's the craziest thing you've run into is the idea of Santa.

AlexOkay. Again, when you're a small child, four years old, you're starting to learn.

MerlinYou're a wizard of magical thinking. I imagine a fat man coming to your house is not the weirdest thing you've ever imagined.

AlexWell, I did believe in the Easter bunny though, because that seemed like it could make sense. If you have multiple bunnies that just had, you know, religious powers once a year that would just sneak into your house. Like a bunny can burrow into a house.

MerlinA rabbit with religious powers. That's a terrifying idea. Like some kind of a clerical rabbit?

AlexNo, it's like a Jesus mascot.

MerlinOkay. And they lay eggs, as everybody knows.

AlexOr they leave a Nintendo DS under your pillow.

MerlinMazel tov. Now, when you think of, this is an old bit, but I am curious. It is interesting to me to ask this of people. When you think of the Easter bunny, describe to me physically what your Easter bunny looks like. Is it a man-sized bunny in a suit? Is it a tiny bunny? Like, what is your bunny?

AlexIt is a regular-sized bunny that is extra soft, and it just has the ability to maybe—I think—I thought that maybe once a year, special powers were given to the bunnies so that they had, you know, the intelligence to hide things around the house. And they become bipedal and get a vest. Right. No, there's no clothing. It's just—

MerlinIt's a naked, naked, naked religious rabbit. No, there's no wrong answers. What's your bunny like, Max?

AlexYou celebrate Easter, right?

MaxYou celebrate Easter, right? I occasionally notice that there is a lot of candy all of a sudden.

AlexMm-hmm.

MaxCheap. Mm-hmm.

AlexIs there like a...

MaxAll these Cadbury cream eggs appeared in our office this year.

AlexOh, do you not know what that's about?

MaxOh, God. Is it a sex thing?

AlexNo. Oh, no. I'm going to put the... So our friend of the show, Trin Garitano, who I mentioned earlier, often travels, and her brother likes to pull pranks when he watches her cats, and left over 1,200 Cadbury eggs in her home, along with a gigantic blow-up Easter bunny in the shower. And it's just one of my favorite things that he does.

MerlinThat's pretty aggressive.

AlexIt is.

MerlinI mean, I can see on paper that seems like a funny goof, but that's pretty aggressive.

AlexOh, yeah. I've been eating Cadbury goods for a while.

MerlinBut Trin can't eat those because she's vegan, right?

AlexYeah, that's why they've been in her office for the past month and a half.

MaxIs that an Italian name?

AlexYes.

MaxI had a little technical follow-up from the show. Please. First of all, one thing I just wanted to direct people towards is there was that meme going around. I originally had this on the list to talk about, but Merlin really said it all on Twitter, which is there was that meme going around this week of like, oh, my God, did you know that you can like hold the space bar to move around the Apple keyboard or whatever? And almost everybody that I follow on Twitter was like dunking on this post being like, oh, you fucking people, you know this, like, you know how lame or other people are going.

It's not just the keyboard. It's the whole air, the space bar. It's the whole keyboard or whatever. And Merlin did a really nice post about this and linked to his his the origin story of his famous comment. There's someone born every day that hasn't seen the Flintstones. Yeah. But that's kind of how I feel. Like, I'm just happy for people that they're finding this great feature of iOS.

MerlinI am too. I just, I ranted just before I started recording you guys. I was recording with Dan and I unintentionally did like 10 minutes on this about how frustrating that is to me. How it like, it's just, I mean, on the one hand, just to repeat what I just said, it's like you're shaming people for not knowing something that you know, which is just, you Just think about like what a caveman thing that is to do. It just flies in the whole face of the idea of education. And, you know, I said this to a friend of the show, John Dickerson, recently.

It takes a special kind of self-involved conceit to be the sort of person that looks down on somebody because they don't know something that you do. Like all information ends with you. That's what you're basically saying. You're saying basically the information in this world only exists to be something I know or don't know. And if I know it and you don't, you're an idiot.

MaxIt's like I know you don't think you think that, but you think that you think that I hate to keep harping on them on the magic thing. But this is this is when I say that like a lot of like the vast majority of stuff out there in the magic world is like the more I learn, the more it's like very unappealing to me. It's like not aesthetically what I'm interested in, like I don't like these groups of people or whatever. Or like it's exactly what you're describing, which is I think a lot of people do magic. They learn magic because they want to like have a little secret from everyone. They want to have a little – they want to trick people. And the whole thing is like making people feel foolish, right?

Like, oh, I know this thing and you don't. And I think a lot of people perform magic that way. That's what they like about it. It's kind of sociopathy, right? It's like here's a little thing that I know and I can make you feel bad about. And then a lot of people see magic like that and they go, I hate magic. Like, magic is lame. And that is lame. Like, that is awful if people do that. And it's a reason, like, I'm always, like, in search of, like, magic I can do and ways to show people magic that's anything but that. Like, how do you make people feel anything but stupid for having agreed to see a magic trick?

MerlinIt's such a small world. I mean, it's – you think about something like that movie The Aristocrats, and everybody knows the famous joke The Aristocrats, or maybe they don't. But, you know, the aristocrats, the basic structure of the joke is very similar, but it's entirely in how it's performed. That's what makes it, for a time anyway, that was considered this like real test of like whether you can make other comics laugh was how you did the aristocrats joke. And you could think about that. You could think about folk songs.

You could think about floor exercises and gymnastics and compulsories. it's like there's not that many people that have done this thing flawlessly and now we don't bother anymore. I see this with basketball and how these guys all play. They have a different style, but they find a way to be a team together. In all of these cases, there's something that we all understand what you're doing, but it's still magic to see somebody do it well. And I think that's a similarity here. And it's, I mean, like in your case, like somebody who knows how a magic trick works and then makes this noise,

Like, is that a happy person? Like, can't you appreciate? You look at somebody and I get this. I don't know if this is true, but I get this from Penn and Teller, which is like they genuinely enjoy watching people do effects. And yeah, they may know how it works. Maybe occasionally they don't. But they have an appreciation for how somebody does this particular effect with the ball and cups. It's been around for millennia. But like however long, somebody who can do that well and with style in a way you haven't seen, that's still new to you. That's still something you haven't seen. It's just so easy to make your world small by like choosing to do the most like paradoxical thing you could do, which is to say that like whatever my world is, is now the de facto bar for everything else.

And if it's not at this bar, it's just stupid. It's such a small way to be.

AlexIt's just it's not just that. It's like someone you're depriving somebody of a small bit of joy that's making their lives better. I don't understand it.

MerlinWell, I was just saying to Dan, it's like it would be like it's sort of like imagine a little kid discovers Lord of the Rings movies or Harry Potter movies. And then you just yell at them because they didn't know that there were books about it, let alone having read it. It's like there are so many paths to how we discover things in life and so many ways that like our interactions with decent people make us more like makes more information bioavailable to us. Being around curious people makes you more curious and being around incurious people makes you equally incurious.

MaxIt's really that simple. I would just point to all of these like fan communities or scenes out there where half the time they complain about that their hobby isn't appreciated. Right. So like if you're into well, for a long time, this was video games. Right. People would just like complain that like video games weren't taken seriously as a hobby and like that that people don't appreciate them or whatever. And then it's like, but really now, like what have you done to change that? Like just personally, I mean, like in the way that you talk to your friends about it and show them to people and present them or whatever, like what have you personally done to make an inviting and create a way to build a bridge to the public so that they can share in your enjoyment of this thing, right?

Like look inwards before you complain that people don't appreciate your thing.

MerlinIt's exactly true. There's a series on YouTube that I think it's wired, but I'm not sure. I can't recall exactly who does it. But some of these are very good. Some of these are not that good. But the basic idea of this series is you take somebody who's a topic expert, and it's a bit, but it's really cool. The topic expert has to explain a concept to five different people. Have you seen the series?

AlexNo.

MerlinNo. So you have to explain something like musical melody and harmony, or you have to explain the, oh, shoot, what's the crazy learning computer? Quantum computing. You have to explain a concept to a child of like six or eight, a child of 10, a teenager, a college student, and another topic expert.

MaxThis is a YouTube series?

MerlinYeah, yeah. And so, like I say, some are better than others. But the idea is like you try to explain. There's one with I think it's Herbie Hancock explaining melody and harmony to all those different people. And it's five utterly different conversations. But in any case, like, you know, it's like Kerr Vonnegut says. Anybody who can't explain what they do for a living to a 10-year-old is a charlatan. Like the ability to explain a concept to anybody on any of those levels, like you don't know less about your topic when you discuss it with a child. If anything, trust me, you're going to find how little you know about a topic when you try to explain it to a child.

But yeah, so I said like a child, an older child, high school, college, and then like it could be like a graduate student or often somebody who's like a peer. You quote unquote explain that topic to them. And you watch people who are good at what they do. There's a difference between being a smart practitioner and a good teacher. somebody who's able to conceptualize what they do in a way that they could explain it to anybody, and they don't see any of it as dumbing down. They see it as an equally valuable conversation to have with any of those people, whether it's their peer or an elementary school child. That's a good person.

Alexchallenge this week was somewhat kind of one more thing one more thing what about what brings us to get alex what brings us together i would say that once again it is salts and not just salts but a salt vessel plus a magazine about salts.

MerlinAlex, please tell us about Salty, a salt vessel plus a magazine about salt.

AlexWell, well, well.

MerlinPreviously on Dubai Friday, we learned about smalt and the importance of centerpieces.

AlexWhich personally, I was very upset when it did not come to fruition as I backed the Indiegogo, of course. But this is on Kickstarter, so it's definitely going to be very different. All right. So they write, salt has defined human society for centuries. Ancient trade routes, also called, quote, salt roads, unquote, were once built to transport salt. Today we use salt to melt icy highways. Okay. Salt has always been valued for seasoning fresh food and remains invaluable for preserving food.

Salted meat and fish lasts longer. So having salt means gaining time. Even our modern English word salary is derived from solarium. Roman soldiers received payment in salt or their monthly allotment of salts. And so what this product is, is a fancy salt holder.

MerlinIn the words of my wife, after I sent her that, I said to the girls, oh boy, move over smalt. And I sent that link and she simply said, it's a metal container.

AlexYep, yep. Well, no, no, no.

MerlinAnd a magazine.

AlexAnd a magazine. And it is a modern salt cellar meant to last generations. And the salty vessel has a lid you can slide with one hand. One hand, Merlin. Oh, my God. Yep. Corrosion resistant.

MaxI can't believe all the years I've been spending only using two hands for salt. I'm a little confused. Can you describe, like, just what is this?

AlexWhat are we talking about here? It is a vessel to hold salt. I don't understand. It's so hard to understand.

MaxSo how big is it?

MerlinIs it like a backpack? It's like half a capsule or half a bean. Imagine something. Imagine a bean, but it's like, what, three inches across or something like that. Oh, my God. The conceit of it is that there is a little round dingus that fits in a channel that you slide back and forth to open your cellar.

MaxDo you know what this looks like to me? It looks exactly like a Amazon dash button.

AlexYep.

MaxOh, it does. But if it was hollow inside and you just slide the dingus down and it reveals, it's a salt mill that, is it portable? It goes in your table?

AlexOh, no, no, no. It goes in your pocket? No, no, no. It is a vessel to last generations on any tabletop where you gather.

MerlinI'm worried, Max, that you might not be understanding the Salty Project.

AlexYeah.

MerlinThe Salty Project explores how salt still connects us.

AlexMm-hmm.

MerlinWe feel better when we eat together, when we cook with each other, and when we share stories.

MaxWell, God knows I can't do that with the salt mill that I already have. Exactly.

MerlinWhat kind of a monster uses a mill? You could have a vessel and a magazine. A magazine about salt. It's a magazine about salt!

AlexThis is my favorite bit. What does it feel like to crunch bare-throot fruit? I can't. What is it like? What does it feel like to crunch bare-throot? Bare-foot-throot forming salt flakes on a giant mirror that stretches in every direction. Why do indigenous people no longer eat some of the native animals in these places? How is evaporated salt production changing the 21st century? In 100 plus pages, salty magazines visit seven salt locations in six countries to understand contemporary salt tourism.

Speaker AContemporary salt tourism.

AlexThis is my favorite thing in the world right now.

MaxArchival quality.

Alex100 plus pages. Now that we've talked.

MaxOne special detail about the Salty vessel is the material. 316 stainless steel is used in marine equipment and surgical instruments that need to withstand the harshest conditions. So we know Salty will last forever. That sounds like an existential threat. It's like endless shrimp. Salty will never die. Salty is indestructible. You cannot kill Salty. It just makes him stronger. You may come and go from this mortal coil that's salty.

MerlinBoy, come gather round. I want to pass on the salty to you. Also, this magazine about salt. Listen, boy. Are you okay, Grandpa? Come closer.

MaxAre you dying, people? You're giving me salty? You know what? I don't want to shame this. I don't want to shame this. You know what this is?

AlexNot that we're yucking yums. No.

MaxThis is a boutique. This is like just a boutique industrial design project on Kickstarter. I've backed a number of these because I'm friends with the artist or I think they're cool. And if you can't make your high-end salt mill on Kickstarter, where can you do that? That's true. Hakuna Matata. Listen, if you love salt mills, build a bridge, not a wall. That's all I love is Gandhi.

Let's get to the challenge. This week is Max's challenge, sort of. And we're doing, it's a special, it's a very special Dubai Friday challenge. So, as you know, Dubai Friday, we have a fan community. They gather on the Dubai Friday Discord server. And that, of course, includes our $5 Powder Nation and our $10 Cox's Cucks from our Patreon, which you can support us at at giveusyourfuckingmoney.com.

And this year the fans have worked with us to organize something that I am genuinely very excited about which is the first annual non-denominational Dubai Friday holiday gift exchange which we are calling the Dubai Friday Secret Krampus in honor of Austrian Christmas Monster Krampus. So basically the way it works is listeners and fans of the podcast, You know, it's a pretty weird little community that we've built, but people are very friendly with each other. And I think there's some pretty interesting characters in there, notwithstanding the ones that want to kill us and eat our faces.

And basically, it's like a Secret Santa or something you may have seen before. You're going to fill out that we made a little Google Doc. You're going to fill out this Google form and answer some questions, and then you'll be matched up with someone, and you'll get each other gifts. Pretty straightforward. But I thought it would be a fun challenge. I used this questionnaire. So Veronica's family does a secret Santa every year just within the family. And Veronica's mom wrote like the best gift questionnaire of all time. And I answer it every year for Veronica's family. So I pretty much just lifted it verbatim for use in the secret Krampus thing.

And I thought it'd be pretty funny if we all are interesting or revealing if we all just answered it. So and it was a nice challenge because we didn't have to prepare anything during this, the week of our giving thanks. so should we just get started with the first question?

AlexWell if someone were to have lost a link to this maybe you should put it in the secret

Maxchannel. All the links will be in our show notes but you can just go to giveusyourfuckingkrampus.com giveusyourfuckingkrampus and that's krampuswithak.com and all the information and details and deadlines are there but do sign up soon because it's going to close before the end of the month. Okay first question. List three hobbies that you follow, such as, oh, sorry, list three hobbies that you follow in podcasts, magazines, blogs, et cetera. And then I put as examples, i.e. knitting, leaf peeping, and race cars.

Do you guys have any hobbies that you read about? Or listen to podcasts about? Or, you know, I don't know, anything like that.

MerlinDo I have a hobby?

MaxI would definitely say magic is a hobby right now for me. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

MerlinAlexa, stop!

AlexOh, did it? Were you triggered? I'm sorry.

MaxI was triggered.

AlexI'm trying to find my responses that I did. I don't know.

MerlinI might say Lego. I like Lego.

MaxI like Internet of Things things. Merlin, are you a member of the Awful community? What? You mean like Variety Meats? No, Awful. Adult fans of Lego.

MerlinOh, no. No. No. No. That sounds like a lot of magic.

Speaker Band big hats.

MerlinNo, no, I'm not. No, no, no, I'm not. But I just got her. They just started re-releasing Harry Potter stuff. And for her birthday, I got her Hogwarts. Oh, that's a good one.

MaxOh, my God. It's real good. Don't listen to this. Turn this off right now if you're listening. No, no, it already passed.

MerlinShe's already 11. Oh, oh, she's... Okay, got it. What about you, Alex? Any other hobbies? You like cats?

AlexI do, I do. My official answer was robots, cats, and weed candies. Oh, that's good. But it's weird because it feels like every hobby I have turns into something I feel like I can monetize. And those are the things that I can't. Well, the robots. I would say Pokemon cats and weed candies. That's like my thing. It sounds like a Chris Christopherson album.

MaxCan I just ask you a question about the Harry Potter Hogwarts castle? Yes.

MerlinDoes it cost $560?

MaxNo, no.

MerlinNo, no. Hogwarts, Lego. No, it was like $100 and something. It might be like the Millennium Falcon where you can get different ones that are more. Oh, I see. I don't know. Hogwarts.

MaxI wish to build the Hogwarts castle out of Lego as an awful myself. But the one I see is $570, which can't be right. No.

MerlinOh, boy. Look at. No, no. Oh, this one was much more deluxe. This is mainly. It's like the haul. It's like.

MaxOkay. This is the $99 Harry Potter. And was it a good kit? Was it fun to build?

MerlinWell, I mainly got it because it comes with tons of figs.

MaxOh, my God. That'll love a fig. You get a pocket Hagrid.

MerlinYeah.

AlexOh, my goodness.

MerlinThat is a good pocket Hagrid. And you make a, what's the thing he stabs in the face in the second one? You get a big one of those. You get a fox.

AlexA basilisk?

MerlinYeah. You get like a dragon basilisk thing. You get a fox. You make a little phoenix. Whatever I paid for this, it's worth the money.

Maxadd to

Merlinand what's nice is it's not it's not exceptionally large it's a good size

Alexthis is something I would not be that I would not be embarrassed to have this on my bookshelf you know what I mean like this is an acceptable adult Hogwarts Express oh right oh yeah yeah

Merlinyou can get a little you get a little boat and a lamp I'm glad they did this because when we got into Harry Potter all this stuff was OOP. You just didn't see it anymore. You'd have to get used versions or whatever. I think it's smart for them to other other ones. Did you say there's a Hogwarts Express?

AlexOh yeah.

MaxGo to similar items. It's the kit number 75955. Oh look at that. That's

Merlinso cute. Look at that. You get the little Hermione with the wand. Oh my god. Yeah this one comes with I think we just pivoted to a different podcast.

MaxThis one comes with... This is a good show that people like listening to. It's us looking up Lego sets on Amazon and discussing how much they cost.

AlexActually, it's Lego.

MerlinBut, you know, if you're making a Krampus, you wouldn't have to spend this much.

MaxVery true. Brought back around. I want some of these Lego sets.

MerlinGet a sorting hat. Get a little sorting hat.

MaxAlex, oh, you said your hobbies. Weed candies. Pokemon and weed candies.

AlexAll right.

MaxI like Nintendo. What are some stores that you like to shop in? The ones that are on the internet. For example, I had like a museum store, the Alex Jones InfoWars store featuring InfoWars life supplements and more, or a neighborhood used bookstore. Do you guys have any stores that you would identify as like, that's my place that I like to go?

MerlinYes. There are ones in my immediate neighborhood, like the Walgreens, but I would say in West Portal.

MaxOh, OPSEC, OPSEC.

MerlinWell, I would say in Walgreens, we know where to send the dew. In West Portal, there are three stores that I love to – one is Bookshop West Portal, which is where I try to buy books when I can. Ambassador Toys, great toy store. And Two Cats Comics, 320 West Portal Avenue.

MaxThat's the home of the ungainly X-Man meetup.

MerlinIt certainly is. They're good people there.

MaxWhat is that? It's quarterly but irregular.

MerlinIt's irregular. It's irregular, like underpants. Yeah, I like all of those local places. There's the Mean Lady Art Store. That's actually where I bought the Lego set.

AlexOh, is it like a Bob's Burger Mean Lady Art Store? What does that mean?

MerlinOh, okay, kind of. It's an art supply store. And the primary owner of it does not like children or people.

AlexChecks out.

MerlinAnd every time you go in, she's like, is there something I can help you with? I'm like, well, I just want to buy some felt and a pen.

MaxAlex, do you have any stores that you like?

AlexI don't know. I mean, I like all the, you know, the indie bookstores in Chicago, like Quimby's Women and Children's First volumes. I like Nordstrom's because I can go in there and be like, put clothes on me.

MaxWhat about Uncharted Books by our friend of the show Tanner's bookstore on Logan Square?

AlexI especially like, oh man, Roxanne the dog. Oh, is that? I forget the dog's name. She's great. But it's just out of the way and I'm lazy. I don't like going outside to buy things. I don't know. I have to go to Target and I'm dreading it. I've been putting it off for like two weeks.

MerlinTargets can differ. Targets can really differ. Oh, they can.

AlexIs it a big target?

MerlinIs it a little target? Is it a Greatland target? Is it a target that used to be where the borders is? They've got some pretty shitty targets out there.

AlexNow they have city targets. Ooh, blah.

MaxNow I know the Target buy the office really well. Like I can make a plan. I can get in and out of there. I know where all the departments are. but recently I went to a target in the suburbs when I was out working on campaign stuff in in um DuPage and I went into that target and it like looked similar it was like a new construction target so it all the same signage but it was laid out completely differently and I felt like I had

Alexa stroke it was so unsettling yeah yeah I don't enjoy that's the one thing I will say about the old Apple stores is everything you could like zoom to the back zoom out and know exactly you know You know where to check out. And now everything is everywhere. And it's like if you want to go and get an Apple TV, it's a two-hour affair. It's, ah.

MerlinIt's no fun. Even like we went into the big one, the big new one downtown in Union Square. I wanted to get my wife, I think we went for, I wanted to get her a new case for her new phone and a new band for her watch. And it was kind of a trial. It really was not fun. It's hard to self-serve there, and it's much harder to get help there. It's hard to get helped. It's not fun. It's not fun, you guys. It's not fun anymore. It used to be so fun. When I recorded that thing about Steve Jobs at the downtown Stockton store, that was back.

That was, you know, I'm just saying it used to be a lot more fun. They were always busy, but there used to be a sense of place. And like now it just – I think more – my theory is that more normal people need more help that require going to an Apple store. Now that they're into the fatter right side of the curve, the adoption curve, there's a lot more people. And as you move to that right side of the curve, you're going to get people who like forgot their iCloud password or whatever. And I think – I don't know.

MaxOh, I don't think it's merely that there's more – that Apple's audience is broader. That their products suck and break. Well, it's that their products suck and break. Oh, boy. But I also think regular people, I think another consequence of the maturity of iOS is regular people are doing more stuff on their phones. There's stuff that I see my parents doing stuff on iOS or regular muggles.

MerlinThere's more people losing photos every day.

MaxIt's true. I see regular muggles doing stuff on phones that I thought, oh, I thought only nerds did this. People really know. Space bar. Space bar. Space bar. No, it's true. It's like it's just the more that stuff is out there in the wild, the more people are going to.

The more people are going to learn, they're going to have an expectation of like, I want to edit video. I want to, you know, I want to set up text text replacement shortcuts, you know, all kinds of things like that. All right. Next question.

AlexWait, Max, where do you like to shop?

MaxYeah. Oh, I like the Aesop soap store, the fancy soap store. I don't. It's very it's really costly. So I don't I don't I buy like you know what I get there is like the fancy soap for our guest room and things like that. But I do love that store. I love Uncharted and I and I go get books there all the time.

AlexI do. I like the relationship Aesop and Lush have with one another because they're like across the street. And it's like, again, a Bob's Burgers and a Jimmy Pesto situation.

MaxCan I write that? Can I write that down? I want to talk about that in the after show. Can I can we talk? Can we come back to that? Yes, please. Because now there's four fancy soap stores in the fancy soap district.

MerlinThat seems healthy. You're right. That seems like a good sign. It definitely does not sound like the fall of Rome. That sounds like a thriving economy.

MaxWait until we get into it because I have some thoughts. Okay. And then what else? You know what? I'll just throw in the wild card of I've been going to Magic Ink, Chicago's pure magic store, fairly often to get magic bullshit. So that's another one I would name. Okay. What kinds of stuff do you like to receive as gifts? For example, used books, board games, kitchen gadgets, etc.

AlexOh, I.

Oh, God.

MaxWell, I'll go first. I recently wrote Veronica was recently. We were talking about Christmas shopping and she was like she said to me, you're very hard to shop for because anything that you really buy it instantly.

MerlinWhich is not which is not wrong. I just added a second air quality monitor in my plastic.

MaxBut it is true. The stuff I want is achievable for me to buy, so there's not a ton of stuff that's like...

MerlinYeah, sometimes by this afternoon.

MaxYeah, yeah. There's not a lot of stuff that's sitting on my wish list of like, boy, I wish I had a microphone or a camera lens. I could just buy it if I want something to use it, especially if I can self-justify it by saying it's somehow related to my work. But I was like, you know, I don't feel like it's fair to say that I'm hard to shop for. I actually feel like I'm really easy to shop for. So I made this little document called Things Max Wants. And it's just a document that I gave to Veronica. And I said she can share it with her parents or other people who get me holiday gifts who complain that I'm hard to buy gifts for.

That's a nice thing to do. It's like registering for a wedding. Like let people know what would make you happy. So here's what I wrote. So I said, number one, books. And I said, look at the Bill Gates list of like he always puts out the list of books he reads and look at the Obama list of the books that Obama reads. And I always want every book on that list. I'll read all of those books. I love cookbooks. Any cookbook that's that's from a famous restaurant or that's designy in some way I like. And I like design books, especially ones put out by the publisher Fade On. And then I said, or the other category is board games.

And I like almost any board game that I don't own. I'll be happy to own it. What do you like for gifts, Alex?

AlexI mean, really, it's the same. At this point, usually, actually, I was very excited because for the first time, my immediate family were only doing Secret Santa, and I am jazzed. Because I'm obviously going to just end up buying crap for all of my siblings just because it's a reflex. But I don't want more crap in my house. I just I I want to live in an empty room with the exception of I really like being surrounded by books just all the time. And I know it's it's kind of ableist to go with the whole the whole John Waters quote of if you go to someone's apartment and they don't have any books, don't fuck them.

And I just tell people, what is one book you would want me to read before I die? And that's, you know, that's a good that's a great question. I ask people a similar question.

MaxI've asked people before, what's a book you've read where you can divide your life into before you read that book and after you read that book?

MerlinOh, that's really a good question.

AlexOh, yeah.

MaxBecause I think everyone has one or two of those. Yeah.

AlexOh, oh, reach behind. Anderson's Bookshop in Naperville. If you are a cuck that lives in the Chicago suburbs, it's one of the best bookstores in the country. I've never heard of this.

MaxAnderson?

AlexYeah. They do a ton of author signings. It's one of the few books where, or a few bookstores where you go and ask the person, and they know exactly what book you are talking about, and they can lead you to it without- Those are good people. That's good people.

MaxI went to that last bookstore in LA this week. Oh, man, what a bookstore.

AlexOh, what's that? Last bookstore.

MaxYou've got to go the next time you're in L.A. It's called The Last Bookstore. You've probably seen everyone on your timeline post the same Instagram there. Oh, yep, there we go. Everyone does a selfie in.

AlexYep, there we are.

MaxIt's a wonderful store. I loved it. Amazing.

MerlinI'm looking at my favorite gift-ish thing that I've received in, not recent memory, this is from 2011. But, and you're not going to get this joke because you probably don't know this book, but there's a series of books called The Spot Books about this dog and his family. that we used to read my daughter. And my wife just made me cry. My wife and my daughter made me the cake that Spot makes for his dad in the book, including dog bones coming out of the cake.

And it looks exactly like the cake in the book.

MaxThat's really sweet.

MerlinIt's the greatest. It's a deliberately terrible looking cake because the puppy made it. That made me happy. I like getting stuff I wouldn't get for myself, which I would say includes things like certain items of clothes. It's weird. that like that was the bane of my existence as a child was receiving clothes as a gift but now i like that i like getting a day off to go do something um i like i like uh i like things that are this is not very crampus but i like you know activity things that can be fun oh boy don't

Maxget me i don't ever want an activity well but you know buying me a dog you know no thank you you know you take you take care of this yeah if i listen if there's an activity i want to do i'm doing it. I don't need anyone to get an activity for me. Don't crap, it's my style. Oh, I got you a rock climbing session. Oh, my God.

AlexA number of years ago, I got an indoor skydiving session, which I have not yet used.

MaxAt that place, I'm like, where is that? It's on Clybourne. I go by that place sometimes. It's like with the big fan.

AlexThere's like six of them. Yeah, it's just you stand

Maxover a big fan. It's right next to a restaurant. It's in a strip mall. It's in a strip mall, kind of by the Apple Store, by the North Avenue Apple Store. And there's a restaurant right next door called Just Turkey. And every time we go by it, I ask Veronica, what do you think they have there?

MerlinI did that as a teen, and I found it surprisingly painful. You bang into the wall a lot.

AlexThat was a thing? This has been around for a while?

MerlinYeah, we've had fans for years now, Alex.

MaxI'm sorry. Now you could put a hell of a HEPA filter on that. Can you imagine? You could move so much air. We could solve global warming with a big enough HEPA filter on one of those suckers. All right. Final question. Give yourself – sorry. Give a few examples of an indulgence that you wouldn't normally buy for yourself. So, for example, fancy loose leaf tea, Gwyneth Paltrow's jade vagina egg, or a new board game. Hand job.

MerlinSorry. Sorry. Sorry. Deep tissue massage. I keep meaning to get a massage. I've only had like one massage in my life. I keep thinking I would enjoy a massage. I would also enjoy acupuncture, I think.

MaxYou know what? I, okay, I want, I would love to get into massages, but I've had massages a few times, like when I've stayed at a fancy hotel, and they're very, they're very. Stressful. Well, I think the most popular kind of massage is meant to be a relaxation experience. So there's like usually some sort of smelly goo and they put in oil and it's like very, it's supposed to like be relaxing. And it's very, I'm so stressed. Did they talk to you?

MerlinThey talked to you, right?

MaxIn the beginning, and then you're supposed to drift off or something.

MerlinDo they play Anya?

MaxOh, it's worse than Anya. It's like off-brand royalty-free Anya. But that's not the kind of massage I want. I want the kind of massage where they twist my spine, where they wring it like a bar rag.

MerlinOh.

MaxAnd it all pops and crackles. I want to be destroyed.

MerlinYou would not believe this thing that my wife bought, and I thought this was the weirdest thing. She bought a shiatsu massager. A shiatsu? Wow. Like the dog? Have you experienced the shiatsu massager? What is that? Here's one link. Imagine there's this thing you put on your shoulders. Yeah, this is the one. You put on your shoulders, you put your arms in these little loops like suspenders, and these giant high-powered balls roll around. You own this?

It's super hard on your neck. Yes.

MaxYou own this product?

MerlinIt's very intense. Is it good? Big balls. Yes. Big balls. Big balls turn and turn. And then their balls reverse direction with some heat implied. You can put on different parts. I find I...

MaxWait. I'm sorry. You've got to... Can I just describe this? So it's a...

MerlinA sling.

MaxOh, my God. It's a leather sling. Yeah. And there's a woman... It's got buttons. Like a Star Trek. So in the picture, it depicts a blonde woman with a sports bra on. And she sort of has like a rictus of pleasure. Just like.

She looks like a methadone cigarette ass. Oh, God. And she's got this giant leather sling around her body. And it's got these two huge arm loops that it looks like you pull down. You pull down as hard as you want. It rolls into your neck.

AlexOh, God. It looks like the titty towel. Toto towel.

MaxWhatever it's called. I'm buying this.

MerlinYou laugh, but this thing's going to fuck you up. Those balls hit you hard. They hit you hard and they roll. Oh, boy, this thing will really get in you. This is a deep, deep massage, these balls. But here's the thing.

AlexThis is what I want.

MerlinYou can't neglect the balls. I start on my neck and move down, and by the end, I'm just about at my butt, pushing real hard against it. Because the lower back is where you carry a lot of tension. And these balls get into my butt hard, and there's a heat implied. And it moves a lot of tension.

Deep tissue 3D kneading pillow massager for neck back.

MaxThis is what I need. Listen, someone, listener, will please contact me and tell me what do I want. When I get a massage, I don't want the relaxing massage. I want the massage where they destroy my body. I think that's deep tissue.

MerlinDeep tissue or Rolfing? You should try Rolfing.

MaxI want to be put through a series of rolling pins like a Looney Tunes cartoon when the guy gets trapped in an assembly line. It's a loony.

AlexOkay.

MaxYes, that's a great idea.

MerlinHard rolls.

AlexNo, Max, you literally just need to go and be like, listen, I want you to give me the most intense athlete massage. Just wreck me. And they're asked that all the time. But here's the thing. They will require you.

MaxBut who's they? What do I put into Google?

AlexMasseuses. Just a nice five-star massage place. But they will say, and I've had this happen twice, okay, what's your safe word?

MerlinWell, it's like going into a Thai restaurant and they say, how hot do you want? You say, make it like you make it. And you're like, are you sure? Are you sure that you have a safe word? Red. Grunt twice. Grunt, grunt. Take off the balls. The balls are hurting me. There's a heat implied. Remove the balls. Grunt, grunt. what's funny it's important you gotta play safe out there kids happy thanksgiving is this does

Maxthis does the um does the um smacker the shiatsu back the ball smacker shiatsu back neck and shoulder massager with heat deep tissue 3d kneading pillow massager for neck back shoulders foots legs electric full body massage relieve muscle pain office home and car and car by info spa. Does it have some sort of IOT functionality? No, I wish. Alexa, stop the balls. Alexa, activate the safe word.

MerlinNo. No. It turns itself off. You have intensity. You have direction. I don't exactly understand all the buttons. I feel like a Star Commander when I'm using it, but I'll just sit down on the couch and be like, oh. You get it down that, we'll call it the lower back area, and it gets in very deep.

MaxThat's what I want.

MerlinIt hurts. It hurts good.

MaxI want the balls to go in very deep.

MerlinI agree. Happy Thanksgiving.

106. The Cool Table at the Magic Convention

Show notes

Transcript

106. The Cool Table at the Magic Convention

Show notes

Transcript

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