100. Jazz Apple

AlexThis is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, create your signature sandwich.

You just appeared like an angel.

MerlinNo, I said I said I said hi when I logged in. I said hello. We didn't hear that either.

AlexOh, no. I was listening to Max eat. See, I find it to be a pleasant noise. Maybe this is my ASMR.

MaxIt's really not. Max is eating his signature sandwich.

AlexI didn't want to spoil it. I didn't want to ask.

MaxThe eating is part of the challenge.

AlexOh, I ate it this morning. Oh, it's in the show. Oh, mine's too crunchy.

MerlinWell, you got a lot to say here, Alex.

AlexWell, I wanted to put a note in that none of these are important or, well, I think they could be interesting but merlin's good at cutting me off yeah alex uh for the rest of this show i will not cut you off no it needs to happen it needs to we'll see how we'll see how that goes over oh exactly i i have such well-structured stories oh yep uh how are you today merlin fine everyone says what's going on i want to die uh i'm not

Merlingonna talk in this one.

AlexNo, don't talk at all. Do we get called out for talking over Alex finally? Oh my God. Why is William Herm being weird?

MaxWhat happened here?

AlexWell, no, I hate everything. No one here. I'm just very, very, very, very, very tired. Merlin has a suggestion for a new segment called I'm Wrecked. I don't know the term wrecked. What does that mean?

MerlinNo, I'm not gonna do it.

AlexWait, what do you mean you're not gonna do it? okay oh my god no you're encouraging them you're encouraging them is this a bit no should i not talk i know it's just it's just gonna be let's talk i'm gonna talk okay here we go here we go i'm gonna i'm gonna talk what am i talking about i put it in the doc oh i came to in the after show a few weeks ago and i i would give context to this story but people should listen to the after show um i but i was interested in cannibalism and i've come to the conclusion

that cannibalism is the most ethical form of uh what is it not omnivore uh see uh it's the most ethical form of eating meat because it's a sentient being who can consent to being consumed.

Nothing? Nothing? Okay. All right. This is a little pod.

MerlinGo ahead. This is a little pod.

AlexThat was it. That was it. That was it. I think, thank you. It was a good story.

MerlinYou can next. You can next.

AlexOkay. Max, your turn.

MerlinLet me know when you're sick of this.

AlexMax, it's your turn. Max, it's your turn.

MerlinI don't want to interrupt.

MaxYeah.

AlexOkay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, um, uh, uh, oh, oh, um, I'm trying to get Max to, to buy a GoPro Hero 7. Um, don't, don't interrupt me, Max. This is very important. The sound on it is very, very good now. The sound? Max, Max, don't, no, no. Shh.

No, no, no, no, no, no. Everyone, everyone calm down. Everybody calm down. the sound is better than the stereo iPhone. I don't want any comments about the stereo iPhone. This is just a statement I would like to make.

I had a pocket controversy conspiracy theory. This was a very good podcast. Okay, I can't do it anymore. I can't do it anymore. Hey, everybody.

Speaker AThat would be such a good show. That would be such a good show. We should do it all the time.

AlexI want to throw up even more that wasn't nice.

MerlinSometimes, sometimes.

AlexSometimes people have a conversation.

MerlinAlex, please don't interrupt me.

AlexI'm very sorry.

MerlinSometimes, sometimes when there's an imminent death, let's say you're a soccer team stuck on a fucking frozen mountain okay or similar okay okay you make a deal yes now this is where this gets interesting i think and becomes potentially a challenge is that when you go holy shit you've done the reckoning you said okay we've got we've got two m&ms and a tampon and we have to make that last for the 12 of us something's gonna go wrong this guy over here he's got an open break on his femur he may not last and you make you start you start

broaching a difficult conversation. You know what I'm talking about? What is, what do we agree while we're all still mostly copious? Can we decide what is the protocol on who gets eaten, when, and under what conditions? Absolutely. This has happened. I believe this happened. Didn't this happen with the soccer team?

AlexI know that there was a movie about it, so it definitely happened.

MerlinWell, I could be wrong. I could be conflating this with the Donner Party, which my daughter's kind of obsessed with. She's got a really scary book about it.

AlexShe's the best.

Merlinit's called the Donner dinner party and it's a kid's book Google Donner dinner party

AlexAmazon wishlist here I come

Maxhave we considered auto cannibalism as an option

AlexI don't know what that means that's why I had my ribs removed

Merlinno no no no but I'm not gonna look it up I'm not gonna look on the internet but I'm pretty sure there are times when the conversation comes up and you go and basically you sort of offer yourself up as tribute You can say, look, I got an open break on my femur. If I go, it's totes okay if you guys eat me.

AlexOh, absolutely. And in fact, my wonderful friend, good friend of the show, Margaret, on Friday, you know, it was kind of an upsetting day. And at the end of the day, we just got into this conversation. And I was that asshole who was like, I know you're a vegetarian, but, but, which is something you should never do. It's terrible. I was a bad person.

MaxIs this Margaret who I've met at our live shows?

AlexYeah, yeah. They're wonderful.

Merlinthat name that was a name in contention for my daughter really oh it's good that was my third

Alexchoice hey margaret your name's great third the name we picked was my second choice so that's pretty good it is very very good um but they had the the other addition of well even if someone isn't eaten you can use the bones potentially to make some sort like make weapons or a raft or or other things.

Speaker AA bone maze?

AlexYeah. Like whoever gets in the maze first.

Speaker APut your butt meat in the bucket to raise the pork cuts. Okay, so you're saying you eat every part of the soccer player. Yeah, exactly. Right? You're saying you utilize it in the Native American style.

AlexRight? Exactly. Exactly. Right? First, first we break off

Speaker Athat pointy femur becomes a pretty good fork. I love Brazilian food. Charscura, Is that a painting style or a kind of food?

MerlinI always get confused. Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 is the name of the internet science page. And you scroll down to the section on cannibalism revealed.

Speaker AOh, no. So would we do that? Would we have a tontine or a tranche or whatever it's called?

AlexOh, I'm already putting myself up. I am giving myself up as tribute. Eat me. Okay.

MerlinYou would do that. You would do that.

AlexYes. I didn't get that joke until about a week later. It's a dumb reference.

MerlinIt's a stupid reference, but my daughter loves that movie.

AlexIt's such a good movie.

MerlinSuch a good movie.

AlexMan.

MerlinOkay, so we're stuck on a mountain. We're an improbably small three-person soccer team. The pilot jettisoned this jetpack. He took it off.

MaxWhat country are the three of us playing soccer for?

MerlinOkay. Are we Brazilian? Let's start there.

MaxOkay.

MerlinThey got a lot of problems right now.

MaxYeah, they do have a lot of geopolitical issues, but I think they're good at soccer. Would it simplify things? I don't think either. I mean, no offense, but I don't think any of the three of us are making the Brazilian soccer team.

AlexI don't want to be that person, but I'm pretty sure the U.S.'s National Women's Soccer League isn't doing that great. Oh, no. And I can see myself.

MaxNo, I think that's wrong. I think they're very good.

AlexNo, no, no, no. Or maybe I'm thinking of the ones who went to the Olympics because there's like the rules. But I think I could be a very good goalie. And you would definitely follow. Max is saying no. You don't think I would be a good goalie?

MaxI don't know if you'd be a good goalie or not, but you're not going to be the goalie.

AlexHere's the reason. Why?

MaxYeah, why? I'm not going to be running. Oh, you're going to be a fullback.

AlexNo, no, no, no, no. You're just coming to support me. Don't interrupt my sports fitness.

MaxSorry. Shh. No. Alex. Shh. I'm saying the three of us are the team.

AlexOkay.

MaxBetween bites. I see.

AlexOkay.

MaxI'm not going to be running.

AlexSo, okay. Let me just give you the- Okay. Let me just give you the-

MaxYou know, the human body max is a lot like a battery. It can run all the way down. I'm not going to use my precious bodily energy.

MerlinOkay. Okay, you know, I think it would simplify things a little bit. Let's not, I mean, as much as I would like to be a Brazilian soccer player, it might simplify things to say, oh, we're going to go to one of your podcast conferences you want to go to. But to get there, the three of us are in a private plane, very poorly maintained, and it flies over a very cold mountain. Does that simplify things? So we've got 40 USB cables.

MaxIn this scenario, the three of us are doing a podcast together. Yes. I just don't want to do any running.

MerlinIs there any running involved? I don't think so. I think you could mostly eat and interrupt. Just like me. Shh. Sorry, go ahead. Okay, so we land. We're very, very cold. The pilot has left with his jetpack. We're stuck with the plane. Now, what did we bring with us? We certainly have a lot of electronic equipment because we've got to do a podcast. You brought a lot of USB-C, Donald.

AlexOh, I see.

MaxI don't have nothing to eat in my backpack at all. I think Alex is probably going to have some RX bars if I had to guess.

AlexWell, let's see what I have in my bag right now.

MerlinI think I would have a small Ziploc bag of Mechamodamia nuts and probably half of a smart water left over from the flight. You know, because the flight ended abruptly. I couldn't finish my smart water.

AlexDo you get a big smart water or a small smart water? Okay.

MerlinI get the fizzy kind now.

AlexOh, I get the gigantic Dasani. You're fancy. Dasani is raccoon water.

MaxI go into that CNN store, and I buy the biggest water. I'm about the biggest water.

Speaker AGive me one large wolf blitzer, please. No, you're in the situation zone. Fuck you. What's it called? The situation room? You're in the splash zone with Anderson Cooper. 360 splash zone.

AlexOh, boy. All right. We've got... I have two bottles of water. I have the one that I've refilled. The empty bottle of water that I have brought through security. Filled it up. You had a clean canteen?

Maxum actually boy i like those clean canteens clean canteens that's an excellent brand those sweat too

Alexmuch i have the one the wire cutter i have a therm this is really a thermos brand okay i have thermos brand water bottle uh and then let's say i have maybe a third of my gigantic dasani left i've got some almonds and some sort of uh theoretically healthy protein bar here's what

Maxi think happens i think we crash and alex doesn't tell us she's she has all this food

Alexyeah my almonds and protein

Maxyou think your survival instinct would kick in that's what I'm saying is I think I would open up my backpack and I would be like what do I have I have some wet wipes in there

Alexbut I have no food

Maxokay so you could make things sanitary

Alexbut you definitely die

MerlinI could sterilize like a wound or something like that a lot of the Brazilians were Catholics just for what it's worth and you guys are very comfortable eating body I'm just saying

Alexis this due in remembrance of me Is this why? Oh, my God. That's why.

MaxI think being Catholic is just a, it's sort of a regular operant conditioning to get you. Yes. Ready for cannibalism. To get you kind of horny for eating someone. Yes. Because it's kind of the, isn't it? It's kind of the climax of the service is like, and now we're going to eat a man.

MerlinYou're saying you come in every Sunday. You've been a good attendant. You've been working toward the idea every, some John Molester and Rob tells you every week it's time to eat the body. And so you've been doing that. You're mentally prepared for when that comes along. Can I just point out one more twist here?

AlexYes.

MerlinMax, how often do you eat things that aren't food?

MaxHow often do I eat things that aren't food? Because I'm going to tell you my POV on this.

MerlinI very rarely eat anything that's not food. I mean, I go almost every time I travel, I go to the airport McDonald's and I get some sort of McDonald's sandwich before I'm flying. And I don't think there's almost any food in that. But I would say of the of the extant podcast soccer team there is one of us that is much more comfortable Subsuming on either no food or things that aren't food. Okay, Merlin

MaxI see what you're saying which is I had made an assumption when I said that there was no food in my bag You know what I do have in there is my law school homework What's that made of is paper All right

AlexYou're gonna make the argument Okay, okay, you're gonna make the argument She's eating the Old Testament.

Speaker AIsaiah.

MaxSo if we crash on a mountain top on the way to our podcast conference, Alex is going to become some sort of caterpillar. She's just going to start eating like paper and she's going to shit silk and then go into a cocoon.

Go swaying through the city.

AlexBut if your body thinks you're eating things, then it's why diet bars work for a very short amount of time. your body tricks itself into thinking it's full uh and so i would have a clear head because i think ah yes this paper has given me nutrients whereas if we weren't there for months like no no no i'm

Merlingone yeah like alex or max and i are trying to get a signal to get like a pho delivered and like you're just you're sitting there eating the lord's word and thriving because you're this is something

Alexyou've been preparing for all of your life and also with you no no no no no no what do they

Maxchange it to your spirit wait about wait a minute though what about this we order the the guy comes we trap and we eat him i tipped a lot

Speaker Aoh god oh god oh god oh man i bet you guys didn't think of that oh no no no no little twist little

Merlintwist so you think it's humane you think it's humane you think it's ethical if you're gonna eat a sentient being yes you know let it begin with me that's what you're saying there's i think

Maxthat there's a spectrum of how of treating people poorly and i will say that having someone deliver your pho and then just trapping them and eating them no they're on the same side of the spectrum they knew what they were saying they're not i mean one's going to be further to the to the right than the other but we're you know we're talking a couple of notches on the bell yeah when we lie

Merlinin wait like create a little trap like for them and like like have like a like a bestic fall on

Maxlike a like a mousetrap well i think there's i think what's gonna i think he's gonna come out and he's gonna be holding the bag and he's gonna be like i have a delivery for max and i'm gonna be like great could you stand on this x and i will accept it for you no no here's your mo fuck

Alexmac is max is gonna be the survivor the survivor of this because he's gonna keep doing fucking magic tricks and be like i don't know where the food went i don't know i put this card through a piece of glass i didn't have any accomplices oh it showed up in your laptop two days later everything's fine the ten of spades it's okay i'm not still thinking about it i don't still

Merlinwait that's why you sent that photo that photo was a magic trick you sent a photo of a computer

Alexwith a card on it and then you had a remark and i didn't know what it meant um there's a very common magic trick where you throw cards against a window and the card that the participant has okay does this story have i started this oh i've seen this one and it sticks against the wall

MerlinYeah, I've seen this trick. That's a good trick.

AlexIt's an effect. Sorry, they call it an effect. Yes, yes. And don't interrupt me. And I thought that that's what an axe was going to do. He's like, do you want to see something cool? And then I'm like, I can't say no, especially when you're holding a deck of cards. Like, I'm curious. And then he rips off a piece of my card. Everyone knows what the card is. So that's the important part. Everyone knows, everyone in the room knows what the card is. And so there's this clear glass pane in our studio that I basically installed. Like I watched it be put in there.

I know that it is sealed for sound. And he does this little rubby thing. And I think, okay, like he's got some magician's wax here. Like what's, I'm going to be able to debunk this.

Speaker AIt's a real thing. No, that's a real thing.

AlexIt's true. We all know it's a real thing.

Speaker ATitle. That's what's going in right now.

AlexMagician's wax. and and and uh engineer cameron happened to be in the studio recording another podcast and he's looking at this and and and the the fucking corner of the card goes through the glass

Merlinand i don't know oh no that's so upsetting don't do that max stop doing magic and so then we had

Alexthis live show so i couldn't spend the entire time researching it but like as i'm i don't know

Maxhow it happened magic tricks are a form of harassment and we just need to say so it needs I think that secret might be in here.

AlexOh, my God. I don't know. God damn it. Okay. Oh, thank God. Wait. Oh, I've never heard of this guy. Oh, my God.

MaxThat's a new issue of Magic Magazine.

AlexOh, God. So is this a new... Because I spent like three hours.

MaxNo, this is something... I ordered something from an internet magic store a while back. You know, it's one of those businesses where if you order one thing ever, you get the catalog for the rest of your life in the magazine. Oh, my God. Jesus, yes.

MerlinOh, God damn, Merlin. The cigar people are so thirsty. The cigar people are out of, I haven't smoked a cigar in three years.

MaxI still get like three a week. I swear I ordered cigars on the internet one time. You guys got to dial it down. I ordered cigars, I think in college one time to be like, I split a box of cigars with friends and we had them delivered. And I still get every month like the cigar fancier magazine. Those people are so thirsty. And they're like, here's a new like underwater torch and, and, you know. Large gauge specials. A wicker chair.

MerlinWe've got crazy stuff in there. You've got to diversify. The market's getting really tough.

MaxI went to the Magic Castle in L.A. Oh, how was it? Have you guys ever been to the Magic Castle?

AlexI've been outside the Magic Castle.

MaxIt was fucking awesome. It was so cool. I had a wonderful night. Magician Jordan took me and Ben and Pins off. we saw three or four shows so we kind of bounced around to some of the different theaters I saw a dude in a random room in the basement who just did a little that's one of the other things in Magic Castle sometimes you're just walking around and drinking there's these little card tables with the green felt on them around and sometimes a world class a professional ass magician will just plop down

and start doing a show for you nobody stops him So we saw a dude named Hannibal, and he had a whole routine using a Pringles can. And we were like, get out of here with us.

AlexOh, my God.

MaxWe probably know more about manufacturing Pringles cans than anyone in this building other than this one dude.

AlexOh, my God.

MaxAnd he destroyed us.

MerlinIt was so good. Very good. You got to know somebody, right? You can't just waltz in there.

MaxYou got to go with somebody. Magician Jordan took us in, who's working on some Jordan. This is a dude named Jordan Gold. this is who I cut my finger to impress and he's a member so he brought us in but do you think they dose

Alexyou beforehand? Do they dose you? Yeah like I've heard so many things that just sound absolutely insane like I don't like Is this what you're saying? They slip you a Mickey so you're more accepting of magic? Yeah like maybe it wasn't even a Pringles can like they were just all so like goofed up on happy pills that it's like oh my god Pringles That's so funny. That's so great.

MaxYou think there's like a magic Bill Cosby situation? Yeah. I'm just...

Speaker AI believe you'll find that your card is in my robe. What you're asking me is...

MaxOh my God, I don't care.

Speaker AThat's what you're asking me? Gather your items and leave my hotel room.

MaxYou just got magicked by Bill Cosby. You're saying, do they drug you when you come in so that you are happier to see the magic? It doesn't feel like drugging.

AlexThat's part of the effect. I'm just asking the question. It's an illusion.

MaxRight.

MerlinIt's like if you go to Harry Potter, you're going to get a butterbeer. I don't think so. In this case.

MaxI don't think that that's the case. We did not. I didn't really eat or drink.

MerlinAll I had was a fizzy water while I was there. Oh, that's how they get you. That's how they get you. That's how they get you. It's magic water. Magic Bill Cosby.

MaxI'd watch that show.

AlexDid you see the big LaCroix controversy? Yes. Oh, boy.

MaxNo? Can you explain?

AlexIs LaCroix bad now? Oh, LaCroix's been ruined.

MaxDo I have to walk back my statements regarding LaCroix?

MerlinWell, there have been, I mean, you gotta have, as I say, you gotta have hard evidence. But LaCroix has been purported to have some hairy, unusually natural ingredients. It's not calm, relax.

MaxLike in a spooky Halloween way? Like, yes, there's razors in everything. Roach parts.

MerlinYeah. Roach parts, right?

MaxLike there's a ghost in there? Like what's an unnatural ingredient? On a soda watch. So it does kind of taste like it's been haunted by a fruit. It's like a fizzy water that's been haunted by a lime.

Speaker AIt's like a fizzy water that was next to a photo of a grapefruit.

MaxIt doesn't taste like a grapefruit, but it tastes like it's haunted by a grapefruit. Somebody rubbed a grapefruit on a can and called it McCoy.

MerlinThey are purported to have chemicals identified, lawsuit, cockroach insecticide. That's the new flavor?

MaxYes, except they say it in French, so it sounds cool. Le cockroach. I don't know. How do you say cockroach? I bet cockroach, there's a cool word for cockroach in French.

Speaker ALe coffard.

MerlinWhat is that? Muerta? Oh, that's omerta I'm thinking of. Is that K-Fabie? How do you pronounce it? Anyways, they say it is purported. And now La Croix, you're talking about thirsty. Woo-hoo. They're super mad about it. And they want people to stop saying mean stuff about La Croix. Let's go look at La Croix on Twitter and see how things are going.

AlexOh, yeah. There's been a lot of turns out on Twitter lately.

MerlinOh, Jesus Christ. Twitter is never more unbearable than when liberals have taken a loss.

MaxOh, oh, oh, it's rough right now. Yeah, even if you try to say something helpful, there's people that correct you. Oh, no, it's the worst. You're not upset in the right way.

MerlinOh, shit, dog. Let's see. Tweets and replies.

AlexTweets. Oh, oh, you're going deep into the stack to the LaCroix.

MerlinI'm coming in hot. I'm coming in hot. Thank you for reaching out, Morgan. We would like you to know that recent allegations regarding LaCroix ingredients are false. I'm not all Fizzy Water. Oh, here's one. Here's one. This is another reply. Thank you for reaching out, Sheila.

AlexOh, God.

MerlinWe would like you to know that recent allegations regarding LaCroix ingredients are false and trouble us as much as they trouble you. We are committed to providing a product that will make the world a healthier place. Oh, shit. Here's one where they responded to somebody. Thank you for reaching out, Alma. We would like you to know that recent allegations regarding LaCroix ingredients are false and trouble us as much as they trouble you. We are committed to providing a product that will make the world a healthier place. They're really getting in there. Oh, Liza Ray. They said that to Liza Ray.

MaxWait a minute. LaCroix recently tweeted. They said, quote, we are proud to serve LaCroix to our families in our hospitals and in our schools. Please stand with us as we defend our beloved LaCroix. I went to Yale.

Speaker AI like LaCroix. I like LaCroix. I still like LaCroix. Do you like LaCroix? I'm judge. I'm judge. Strong like bull. Look at me.

I make water.

AlexOh, boy.

Speaker AOh, what a business. So is it true?

AlexWhat a business. Oh, I don't know. I was just looking at it.

MerlinI'm just trying to scan this article on the Snopes. It's one of their deep dives.

AlexHave you ever tried LaCroix LaCola? or knee cola. I don't know how.

MerlinOh, may no, may no, may no.

AlexIt's real bad. There's no way.

MerlinI don't like cola flavor.

AlexYes, exactly.

MerlinHave you ever explored with a soda stream? I think that what they wanted to grow into was, hey, buy all these shitty little packets to make your water taste weird. I didn't like any of them, but the one I liked the least, I liked root beer more than cola. Cola is bad. If you want a cola, buy a Coca-Cola and drink it. But don't try to make something taste like cola.

MaxCola flavored stuff is a blight. What is that? That's the gross like prune flavor without but without any of the sugar.

AlexNo, no, no. I'm. Oh, God. I have uncovered something wonderful. Oh, God. I'm so happy. This is the only thing that's made me happy in so long. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Okay. So I'm sending you a screenshot of the LaCroix ripoff Coca-Cola box. Look at the bottom right hand corner.

Speaker AOh, no. Oh, no. eight tall cans of la cola no no no

Maxoh it's also called ni cola ni cola naturally essence sparkling this is so i think that stands for a nice cola

Alexnice cola zero calorie zero sweetener zero sodium equals all caps innocent don't call me innocent i'm

Speaker Ait's naturally occurring with

Merlinthe insecticides and she's making the face like a laugh.

MaxIt sounds like a Kanye tweet, doesn't it? That's so bad. McCoy innocent! You're gonna say it.

Speaker AThat's so good.

MaxWhat do you guys think of Kanye getting appointed the new UN ambassador?

MerlinOh, it's overdue. It's time. It is time. You know the kind of speed it up. Let's go. Let's go

MaxYeah, we're already on the ride. Let's go upside down now

MerlinWhat's that what's the term that you don't chop? Oh, what is called acceleration ism? What's it called? How world?

Speaker AYeah, like we were like there's a there's a certain kind of strength. It's like fucking great bring it

MerlinMake it worse make it so much worse

MaxAcceleration is right. Yeah, they're like the what is it? It's like the they're like they're like Like, is it Maoists? Accelerationism.

AlexI really like how Chance the Rapper is trying so hard to defend him while not. It would be like Merlin, once I go completely unhinged, being like, well, she was raised Catholic. She was meant to eat people.

MerlinI'm going to tell you what I tell my daughter. I know you want to forsake me. I know you want to get away from me, but I will always support and defend you even when you don't want me to.

AlexI was born into the cannibalism.

MerlinI will become problematic for you. I will do it.

AlexOh, thank you. Thank you. But, well, first you need to, what was it? Six million dollars on hats? That was very, very, that made me very happy. Oh, Chance the Rapper sold a bunch of Threes hats for a lot of money, and then he's donating it to a bunch of mental health facilities in Chicago. That's nice.

MaxThat's super nice.

AlexYeah, Chicago doesn't really have those anymore, so it makes me happy. Is he giving money to Howard Brown? Oh, well, Howard Brown, are you saying that queer people are crazy, Max? Is that what you're saying?

MaxNo, I'm not saying that Howard Brown provides mental health.

AlexHoward Brown no no they that's not their main thing though you gotta go gotta go elect Howard Brown I'll be on a few minutes

Merlinacceleration ism is the idea that either the prevailing system of capitalism or certain techno social processes that have historically characterized it Us needs an edit should be expanded repurposed or accelerate in order to generate radical social change So make it worse so that the system will break right speed at all. Yeah, this is like I think this is from

MaxDeleuze and Guattari it's from like not anti-Oedipus, one of their other ones. But anyway, the idea is like capitalism is going to kill itself on a long enough timeline. So let's just go ahead and speed that up.

MerlinOh, yeah, DeLuzo-Ghattarian theory of deterritorialization. That's right. Nice pull, Max. Thank you. I'm very sad. Why? Why? Everything's great.

MaxYeah. Come on, Jim. Yeah. No. The climate news, I think, was really good this week. Oh, so good. Oh, boy. Did you see the articles yesterday? So there was the climate news. I don't know if our listeners follow this, but there was a study out. I think from the UN and it was like yeah, we've got about 12 years before if we don't do anything the earth is like uninhabitable by humans and there's gonna be like water wars and millions of refugees if we don't radically radically radically change pretty much everything in 10 years It this is not savable. Yeah, and you know, I think that's unlikely especially after Trump gets reelected

But you know Alex when you're pressing those buttons it cuts out my sound too. I don't know why no, it doesn't

AlexOh, yes, it does. Keep talking?

MaxYes, it does.

AlexKeep talking?

MaxYeah. I can hear myself. Really? Yeah, something's weird with the switching. Uh-oh. Just saying.

AlexUh-oh.

MaxMaybe stop doing it.

AlexOh, oh, oh, oh.

MaxYou're ducking. Okay, now I'm done. Okay. That seems like a problem. A normal, correct way for those cables to be routed. So anyway, what were we talking about? Accelerationism. Accelerationism, right. Global warming. Oh, global warming. And then global warming. Trump's going to be reelected. 10 years. 12 years. I don't remember. Anyway, it's very, it's really grim. Oh, right. And then yesterday there were all these posts going around. CNN had this article or whatever that everyone was posting where it's like, if you're worried about this 10 year forecast for global warming, like here's some things you can do to help.

And it was like, install a smart thermostat, like use a reusable grocery bag, like straws. What about straws? Yeah. Yeah. Stop using classic straws. Like none of that. I mean, listen, is it better to, it's probably better to do those things than not. But like also none of those things make a fucking bit of difference to the planet

MerlinIt's sort of like when you do these budget cuts and so you say you have a budget deficit of a trillion dollars Right and so you fire to the janitor, right? It's like well, that'll be good

MaxOr we could just stop spending all the money on those jets like that would help a little bit Yeah, well, yeah We're currently giving like ten million dollars to the National Endowment for the Arts to fund all of the the new like Experimental art in the cost one-fifth the cost of a parade Right, right. So let's go ahead and cancel that oh my god you guys want to freak yourselves out i'm in the middle of a phenomenal book it's like so i've read i've read all i'm reading now is politics books and political philosophy and trump and then just stuff about trump and all the trump books have been mostly bad like they're just kind

of telling me things i've already read on like political twitter like all the juicy parts get get sort of leaked or you know whatever there's nothing the woodward book is not surpassingly well written it's not terrible but it's not great this is how i feel about all the woodward books because I've been reading them going back even to the George W. Bush administration. Remember Woodward wrote the book with the, you guys are living in the reality-based community, and we're out here changing things. That was in a Woodward book. But anyhow, I'm reading Michael Lewis's book called The Fifth Threat.

Oh, yeah. And it's short. It's a quick read. And you know Michael Lewis is one of the best living writers.

AlexHe is the big boy. Yeah, no, he loves him.

MaxIt is fucking phenomenal. So the basic premise of this book is there's this thing that's required by law to happen, which is the presidential transition. And before the election even happens, anyone who might win for president, anyone who's even a serious candidate, has to put together a transition team and start preparing to take over the government as soon as the election happens, because you have like all this accumulated knowledge that needs to pass from one administration to another.

MerlinI mean, isn't that a big part of what happens? Like once you're close to winning, like once you're close to winning, you're starting to like really start to like get every corner of what you're going to need to do in place.

MaxYes. So basically Chris Christie is on the outs of the campaign because he put Jared Kushner's dad in jail as a prosecutor and Kushner doesn't like him. So Christie is like, let me run the transition. And everyone thought that was a fucking joke because even internally in the Trump campaign, nobody thought that he could win. So they basically said, like, go off and do it. And the only thing Trump said was don't don't spend any money. So basically Christie raises just a couple million dollars to do the transition, which is like nothing like the Clinton camp. Like I was a, Merlin, you feel bad about giving money to Jill Stein.

I gave money to the Clinton transition team.

MerlinYeah.

MaxI gave us not insubstantial amount of money.

MerlinOh, to the Senator Clinton team, the Secretary Clinton team.

MaxThat's correct. To the transition team for the, because I assumed she would be president and there was. Sure felt like it for a while. Sure felt like it. Yeah, I was pretty confident. And I wanted to support some stuff in the transition. So I gave a bunch of money and that wound up not being a great investment. But anyway, so Christie raised a couple million dollars. And the way it works is Congress provides office space, but you have to pay for your own staff to do the transition. And when Trump learned about that, he fucking lost his mind. He goes, that's my fucking money. You're spending my money. And Christie's like, but I raised it for the transition.

And Trump's like, especially thinking he's going to lose. It would be it would be beyond wasted money to him. That's right. And Trump goes, any money that's raised on my campaign or my name is my money. And you're waste. You're stealing my money. And so basically around the time when Trump wins, they shikan the whole transition thing. And there's all this work that's been done at these different agencies. So Michael Lewis spends the first part of the book at the Department of Energy, and he goes through all the briefings. He has the guy, I think it's Secretary Moniz was the energy secretary under Obama. He's a nuclear physicist. And he says to Moniz, tell me the top five threats to American sort of security in energy.

And he goes through them. One is more horrifying than the next. and you're like, boy, the Trump people, they better have been on top of that. And just no one shows up. There is no transition. Nobody comes. It's wild. I highly recommend this book. It gets into a whole kind of terrifying part of the Trump administration that we're probably not thinking enough about, which is the sort of implementation of the bureaucracy.

AlexI just got it on Kindle. I'm so glad. I mean, it's funny.

MaxIt is funny and fun to read in the way that Michael Lewis always is. So I'll say that.

AlexHave you read Good and Mad, Merlin?

MerlinNo, I was going to get it. Today's my wife's birthday. I was going to get it for her, but it was out of stock.

AlexHappy birthday, honey. Well, buying somebody a Kindle book

Merlinfor their birthday is pretty lame.

AlexOh, boy. No, I agree. I bought the hardcover. Check your phone. There's a present for you.

MerlinHappy birthday. Got her Cuisinart. I got her food processor and a fig plant. Wait, a food processor? Like a whirly boy? Like a little boy. Yeah, and I'm getting her when we're getting a new couch. Is it a stick blender or like a real food processor? No, Max. It's just what they had on Amazon.

MaxWell, how big is it?

MerlinIt's a Cuisinart mini boy. Because we got a big boy, but she wanted a mini boy for making hummus and stuff.

MaxOh, so it sounds like a stick blender?

MerlinGot her a couple gift cards.

MaxDoes it have a big stick that comes out of it?

MerlinIt's a stick. I mean, it's got a blade and it's got two buttons. I don't know what you got. Don't criticize my wife.

MaxI'm not criticizing. I'm asking.

MerlinI'm just asking the question.

MaxI'm just asking the question. All right. Let me read you a little thing from this Michael Lewis book.

MerlinAll right. I have a birthday, honey.

MaxSo he's talking about all the different risks that the Department of Energy has. And you don't think of the Department of Energy as being like a super high risk thing. But keep in mind, they manage all the nuclear weapons in the United States. And so they send this absolute industry hack, this like guy who's like an oil guy, like a lobbyist for oil to do the transition. And of course, you know, Rick Perry now is the secretary of energy, the guy who famously said in the presidential debate that he wanted to eliminate the Department of Energy. And he couldn't remember what he wanted to eliminate, but he later said he was trying to think of the Department of Energy.

Oh, I remember that, yeah. So this is Ernie Moniz, Obama's energy secretary, said, With a very complex mission on 115,000 people spread out across the country, shit happens every day. Take the project to carve football field. And then that end quote. And now this is Michael Lewis. Take the project to carve football field length caverns inside New Mexico salt beds to store radioactive waste. It's the WIPP, the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant Facility. The waste would go into barrels, and the barrels would go into the caverns, where salt would eventually entomb them.

The contents of the barrels were volatile and so needed to be seasoned with, believe it or not, kitty litter. In 2014, according to a former DOE official, a federal contractor in Los Alamos, having been told to pack the barrels with, quote, inorganic kitty litter, had scribbled down, quote, anorganic kitty litter. The barrels with organic kitty litter in it had burst and spread waste inside the cavern. The site was closed for three years, significantly backing up nuclear waste disposal in the United States and costing $500 million to clean while the contractor claimed the company was merely following the procedures

given to it by Los Alamos. The list of things that might go wrong inside the DOE was endless. The driver of a heavily armed unit assigned to move plutonium around the country was pulled over on the job for drunk driving. An 82-year-old nun cut through the perimeter fence of a facility in Tennessee that has weapons-grade nuclear material. A medical facility Ordered a speck of plutonium for research And a weapons lab clerk Misplaced a decimal point And FedExed the researchers A chunk of the stuff so big

It should have been under armed guard Whereupon horrified medical researchers Tried to FedEx it back Oh my god And then he goes on to say An accident with nuclear weapons Is at the top of his list of risks And it's difficult to discuss that topic With someone who doesn't have security clearance but the Trump people didn't have it either I point out so he'll just have to work around my handicap quote I have to be careful here he says he wants to make a big point the DOE has the job of ensuring the nuclear weapons are not lost or stolen or at the slightest risk of exploding when they should

not quote it's a thing Rick Perry should worry about every day he says quote are you telling me there have been scares he thinks for a moment they've never had a weapon that has been lost He says carefully. Weapons have fallen off of planes. He pauses again. I would encourage you to spend an hour reading about Broken Arrows. Broken Arrow is a military term of art for a nuclear accident that doesn't lead to nuclear war. McWilliams has had to learn all about these. Now he tells me about an incident that occurred back in 1961 and was largely declassified in 2013 just as he began his stint at DOE.

A pair of four megaton hydrogen bombs, each more than 250 times more powerful than the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima. broke off of a damaged B-52 off North Carolina. One of the bombs disintegrated upon impact, but the other floated down beneath its parachute and armed itself. It was later floated down. It was later found in a field outside Goldsboro, North Carolina, with three of its four safety mechanisms tripped or rendered ineffective by the plane's breakup. Had the fourth switch flipped, a vast section of eastern North Carolina would have been destroyed

and nuclear fallout would have descended on Washington, D.C. and New York City. Quote, the reason it's worth thinking about this, said McWilliams, is the reason the bomb didn't go off was because of all the safety devices on the bombs designed by what is now the DOE.

Oh my God.

AlexOkay. All right. This, I'm going to go back to one of my, one of my, something I put in the doc, which is, I have a new convoluted theory that I'm pretty sure is backed up, but I didn't want to Google it because then I would sound smart.

MerlinOh, yeah, your theory.

AlexYes, I'm sure well thought out theory about like situation, situational depression in terms of like the millennial American dream. And I'm curious, Merlin, did you do the like hide under the desk in case the bomb was coming? I don't remember.

MerlinI can't do time. No, we did tornado drills.

AlexThat's it?

MerlinWell, I mean, if you get hit by a nuclear bomb, you die.

AlexSo you were in the like the nice era.

MerlinWe were in Cincinnati. Maddie, there was a lot of, there was a lot of, no, we would have been super dead.

AlexNo, I mean, same, but my mom had the, had, I think you were just in the window where they stopped doing the Cold War shit.

MerlinNo, no, I know the duck and cover stuff. No, I don't think we did. Like I say, we did tornado drills pretty often and fire drills, but I don't think we ever had that. My daughter, of course, has the lockdown drills, which is nice.

AlexYep, yep.

MerlinBut, but you're, so your mom had that.

AlexYeah, and, and I had lockdown drills and like, there's all this stuff of like, ah, millennials are entitled and we, we all know that bullshit. But what we were sort of promised was like, if you work really hard and vote and be active in your community, like things will change for the better. And as we slowly see that just erode in front of us and it's like, well, nope, nope, nope, we can't. That's what like the melancholy and just the malaise that has come upon us. And like that's why they bring in counselors.

I didn't know this happened until recently, but I guess counselors were brought in after Trump was elected to even like conservative districts because kids were so upset. Because it's like, yeah, we're promised that we were promised that we live in a democracy and that if we do our civic duty, things are going to be OK. And they're not. And it's bad. And everyone's sad. The end. No, no, I don't think you're done.

MerlinSo what do you mean by situational depression?

AlexOh, just in terms of like something that's not caused by brain chemistry that you were born with. That's purely like it is a situation that you are put into. And like the U.S. has like hugely rising depression rates, but not any sort of psychotic breaks or like there's no rise of bipolar disorder, schizophrenia or anything like that. But anxiety and depression is through the roof and not other not everyone has that.

But also not everyone has, you know, 24 hour news cycles like we do. And and that's also it could be like, you know, like Japan will not recognize mental illness whatsoever. But yeah, that's my convoluted theory that I will Google later.

MerlinSo I missed some of that. What's the more part?

AlexNo, no, I'm interested. Just because like in school, I feel like this is probably the case for anybody my age. It was like if you It's not like if you work hard You'll get a house If you work hard Not even work hard But like if you engage with your community Things will be okay Like the world will progress And things get better Just like you know Childbirth Death and childbirth goes down

Like same like social progress will be made And when you watch Like what you think you have control of erode, just like baby boomers thought that they had control over like buying a house and, you know, having a pension just as that eroded. It's sort of the same thing that is happening.

MerlinI think that makes sense. Yeah. And it, but it's always a funny kind of, um, uh, uh, I can't avoid the word privilege here, which is that like, uh, you, you come up and like you, let's say you join in the army, you know, you fight in Korea or whatever, you're, you know, in France and you come home, you got the GI Bill and like, you're still, you're very much encouraged to feel like that was a bootstrap thing on your part. You continue forward through the years. So there's always been like through my life, um, there's always been that sense of like,

well, anybody can be president, you know, anybody can own a house, anybody can do all of these things. And on the one hand, this is where the privilege part comes in on the one hand. No, that's never been true. There's lots of people who won't be president. I mean, not just because we only have one every few years, usually, but also because there's all kinds of reasons that's not going to happen. You aren't talking about why that is. You're not really talking about how there's not going to be a black lady, a black trans person be president anytime soon. Whatever. We get that. So we know that's at least partly bullshit. But the other bullshit part is that, like, for a long time, you could really assuredly, because of your privilege and your stance in your class, you could very much slather that bullshit on your kids.

And it was actually kind of true because you were privileged and got to go to Yale and all that stuff. Yeah. You know, the chances are that you probably will own a house. I think the difference now, I can't say, but it feels like in the last 15, 20 years, we continue. And this is the cognitive dissonance, too. It's like we continue to pretend like it's your fucking fault that you don't have all of this stuff. You, the youth. like we we continue but like we still have not as the purveyors of that bullshit let up on that or admitted that it's always been a little bit of a hoax it's just that it was a hoax that happened

to be true for some amount of people that were in a position of power and this is not a super smart or insightful thing to say but i think the thing is now they continue to give you that lie except they know they know in their heart that it's a lie and like you're expected to deal with the cognitive dissonance of that and go like wait everybody keeps telling me that like i'm i'm this way because like i ate avocado and killed american cheese and that's why i can't have a house and it's like well no no it's because my generation really fucked up and the generation before it's really fucked up too and like but now you're supposed to feel bad about that because you're the one who

can't do the american dream so why are you so depressed just buck up play golf you'll feel

Alexbetter i guess i'm thinking of that even more on a max you would know this what percentage of americans like don't know about the electoral college or don't understand how it works i have no idea the wasn't that new fancy uh i'm sure it's somewhere but like the amount of people who think that we're living in a pure democracy i think contributes to that i don't think anyone thinks we live in a pure democracy i think most people yeah but i think a lot of people don't

Merlinknow that north dakota is way overrepresented for example that i mean the the thing that everybody on our political Twitter talks about that everybody fucking knows in our world is like, Jesus Christ. Like this, this election in November is going to be so bizarre to quote a million people on Twitter, like a minority of people. What's, what's the line people have been saying that like a sexual abuser that was elected by a minority of people will be representing all these states that represent a minority of people in those states to get a majority in the Senate.

Like there's all this crazy shit that's just way out of whack because of stuff like the Electoral College. Something that made a lot more sense in, you know, probably the early 1900s. It doesn't make a ton of sense right now. And it's, and of course, who's going to give that up? Is North Dakota going to say, oh, sorry, my bad. We have 17 people here, but we still need two senators.

MaxAccording, I found this thing from 2009, and it says those who have held elected office lack civic knowledge. 43% do not know the Electoral College is a constitutionally mandated assembly that elects the president. Wow. that must is that of elected officials or yeah that's worded it's worded poorly but i think it's ever i think this is a poll of everyone so 43 percent of people don't know what the electoral

Alexcollege is i think it's higher than that i i don't know uh i just um like just yesterday

Merlinas you know said liberal said liberal twitter is lighting up and i'm just i keep having this

Speaker Aone thought which is i'm just this is i'm sorry to have to say this i'm just i'm so tired of having to think about Donald Trump.

MerlinI'm so tired of him suffusing every corner of life. It's been this way for two years now, but it is really when you use that phrase situational depression it is really exhausting. It's really exhausting that there is not any area of life where that guy won't come up. And it's really draining. It's hard to get away from and even when you do get away from it, you don't really get away from it. It's just, it's so relentless. And like, I just, I'm mainly venting here. This is my truth. It's just It's really physically exhausting at this point.

MaxAll right. Well, did you guys make a sandwich?

You know, I have an important email I wanted to read from listener Nick. Listener Nick writes in, Hey, Max, I'm a third-generation apple farmer in Australia, and I agree that a Golden Delicious bought in shops is a rubbish apple. Hell yeah. Rubbish apple from a professional apple farmer, everybody. Oh, wait. But he says, but right off the tree, they are up there with one of the best. Oh, well. Oh, it's like sweet corn. Yeah. So blame your grocers for letting them get old, warm, and flowery. My uncle has been growing apples for 45 years, still maintains they are the best eating apple

as long as they are stored right.

MerlinI can't find a pizzazz to save my life. I don't think we have pizzazz here.

MaxI cannot find them. So I feel like I've had a Golden Delicious from the apple orchard. Like I have plucked it off the tree and eaten it, and I still didn't think that it was that great. maybe they're just not grown well in the u.s sometimes sometimes they're bred for like

Alexto look good instead of taste good maybe we are also in the midwest like i'm not here to argue

Merlinwith the family of a professional apple farmer but i mean the truth is almost any kind of produce

Maxis way better if it's if it's crazy fresh yeah a truly rubbish he goes on a truly rubbish apple in my opinion no matter how fresh ripe or hard is the red delicious oh give me a fucking break We have recently been getting good money for Golden Delicious, as a lot of other growers have been pushing them out, and they've become scarce. There are a lot of new apple varieties coming out with some interesting names. We've recently planted a variety called Bravo. I think I've had a Bravo apple. Bravo apple. Okay. That is dark purple and apparently does not go brown when left half eaten.

Oh, it looks like a big plum. But I still have to wait five or six years before we will start picking them. Based on that description, I take it back. I have not had a Bravo apple. Listen, Nick, send us some Bravo apples. You figure it out. Yeah, come on due by Friday, you coward. Another new one we have planted is a Conzi. I would love to hear how that stacks up against the Pizazz, as it is an excellent apple that stores a lot better than the Golden Delicious. We don't see a lot of Honeycrisp down here in Australia, but some of the other new varieties include Eve, Envy, Jazz, and Smitten. I've had a Jazz. You guys had a Jazz apple?

I hate it. Not to my knowledge.

AlexScott, Scott Apples, Zapp.

Speaker AZapp, Zapp.

MaxEat the whole thing, get down to the corn, the seeds, and eat the stem.

AlexI take it back. I think I have had a jazz apple.

MaxWhen I was in college and you didn't have a-

MerlinThat sounds like a euphemism. When I was in college and- So I got to hear me jazz apple.

MaxOr occasionally a few times in the office after work, and there was no implement for smoking marijuana, you know, you go ahead and you make yourself a jazz apple. Make yourself a jazz apple. Just a- You get in there with like a big pen. Yeah. Yeah. Bong. Pipe. Jazz apple. Street terms. The kids are calling it jazz appling.

Merlinchallenge this week's challenge was me yeah i think so oh shit it's my challenge this week yes oh challenge challenge this week as a massage in the after show we have an after show after this we do a whole separate episode every week give us your fucking money.com the challenge this week was i think another word was develop your signature sandwich now max came in today with a sandwich

Maxyeah i'll just go ahead and say that was my signature sandwich i'm prepared to talk i'm You're here to talk a lot about a lot of very exciting food that I had in LA, but I don't know what to do to make a signature sandwich. I have so little to say about this. It's so boring.

MerlinI can't wait to hear what Alex is.

MaxYeah, Alex, you start us off since you have a lot to say.

MerlinYeah, yeah, yeah, please.

AlexOh, my God.

MerlinAnd we predicted last week, I believe, that it would be half of a plain bagel on a hot dog bun. No mayo. No mayo.

AlexOkay. so neither of you can alright alright no you eat the New Testament

Merlinbetween the two halves of the Old Testament

Alexverboten it consists do we consider bread an ingredient yes okay so three ingredients do you have any idea of what bread I would actually use

MerlinI don't think it's sourdough I don't think it's rye or any kind of seeded bread

MaxIt's like one of those grocery store baguettes that's like a packing peanut. It's like a giant extruded packing peanut.

MerlinOh, it's like an airport sandwich. I bet it's like an airport sandwich.

AlexNope, nope. It is from Publican. It is the sourdough bread from Publican.

MaxThat's actually a great bread. I know. I'm surprised that you like that because it's got a lot of flavor. It's got flavor, yeah.

AlexIt's an amazing sourdough bread. Publican. And then second ingredient. This should be very easy for both of you. Actually, I don't think we've talked about this on the show. Any guesses?

MaxTurkey breast.

AlexOh, God, no. It's peanut butter. Good God. You're monsters. Okay.

MaxOh, yeah, that's what I add to a peanut butter sandwich.

MerlinPeanut butter on sourdough.

AlexYep, peanut butter on sourdough.

MerlinThird ingredient.

AlexYep.

MerlinBanana?

AlexNo, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need more mouthfeel. So you get the thin, lightly salted, rolls gold? Rose gold? Yes. Do you know what I'm talking about? The pretzels, rolls gold?

MerlinRolled gold? Rolled gold. Rose gold is the color of a device, I think. Yeah, that's what you buy if you're Khloe Kardashian. Oh, I see. You put pretzels and peanut butter on bread. That sounds pretty good.

MaxCan I ask you guys a pretzel question before we advance too far? When you guys get the little bag of pretzels, like on the airplane or whatever, Do you go ahead and eat the salt pellets at the bottom?

AlexNo.

MaxI wet my finger. Yeah, yeah. You got to lick your finger and you get in there like it's a fun dip. Oh, yeah. You mainline it. Absolutely. Oh, interesting. Or sometimes I'll just tip it over into my mouth. But you want those, because a lot of the salt crystals fall off of the pretzel.

MerlinYou know, it's a treat if you're on a plane. You can pour the whole thing onto your tray. No. Just pour it right under the tray and you lick it right off the tray. No. That sounds pretty good, Alex.

AlexIt's wonderful, but they need to be an inch apart. So you can have no more than six small pretzel sticks on the bread.

MaxThe pretzels need to be an inch apart.

AlexYes.

MaxSo it's peanut butter and pretzels on the bread.

AlexYes.

MaxThat sounds disgusting.

AlexIt's delicious. It's wonderful. It's a PB&P.

MaxYou know what's a delicious treat is you get a little bit of apple slices and some peanut butter on a little bit of bread.

AlexThat's actually very good, as well as peanut butter and banana. Peanut butter and jazz. And then I have a jazz apple afterwards, and it's a great day. You can make a jazz apple.

MaxYou have a couple of jazz apples, fall asleep.

AlexYeah, and it's a good day. It's a good day. Yeah, well, and the only problem is I would have actually preferred San Francisco sourdough, but I could not procure it in the time since we did. Is there a difference?

MerlinDo you feel like there's a difference?

AlexYes, absolutely. It's tangier here? It's tangier. The holes are, there's more holes. It's just, it's fluffier. Like, sourdough anywhere else is, like, more dense. Like, if you go to a Panera, do they have Panera in San Francisco? Do you know? I've seen them. I've seen them. Yeah. They make me sad. I have frequent.

MaxPaneras make you sad? I like Panera.

AlexI enjoy it, but I would not say that they serve bagels or bread. Did a light just go out in the studio? What's happening? Is the fan on? What's happening? It's falling apart. um the but it's so panera sells bread the same way it sells like bagels it's just like bread pressed into a little roll and the sourdough is like white bread put in with a little bit

Merlinof sourdough starter it's not bespoke yeah no no no no that sounds pretty good it's a very on-brand sandwich for you now how often do you make something like that um for the first time

Alexthis week so once oh uh twice cheese i try not to okay it it hurts the tummy i mean like occasionally whenever i have pizza i regret it oh bathroom times you can make a jazz apple no no no that's the thing again i because i don't i've never seen you eat pizza i i've eaten pizza at your home many times because yes because you order enough cheese and then oh yeah yeah um hey can i ask you merlin

MaxCan I ask you something about my postulate that you should always be ordering more cheese than everything else? Yeah. Did I steal that from John Roderick without knowing it? I don't think so.

MerlinI don't think so because I agree, especially when you're around kids, you learn this. I mean, we talked about this, but no, I don't think you stole it to answer your question.

MaxI think John said something about that recently on the podcast. And I was like, is that something he said before and I got it from him?

MerlinHe has a lot of anecdotes about pizza and they sometimes run into each other and over each other. So there's the whole like we can all agree on cheese. There's pizza for the table.

MaxBecause I've been, I've been, Alex can tell you, I've been, I've been saying this for years. But I've been saying this for years.

MerlinIt's factually, it's factually correct. Because here's the problem. Let's return. Aspirational ordering needs to stop. And this is, this should be Michael Lewis or possibly Daniel Kahneman or possibly Malcolm Gladwell should do an entire podcast series about aspirational ordering. Aspirational ordering could be that you get a bunch of DVDs from Netflix with French subtitles you're never going to read. That's the kind of aspirational ordering. I used to do that all the time. Oh, I'm going to have like a whole week of Godard. No, it doesn't happen. Now I just got a bunch of fucking DVDs sitting around that I'm paying for.

MaxOh, you're saying you're ordering things that don't bring joy into your life.

MerlinYou say, thank you for your service. No. Well, yes, I am saying that because, okay, here's another way to think about this. If somebody said to you, okay, we're going to order pizza for 10 people. We don't know that much about the preferences, ages, or dietary restrictions. But like, so this place has, let's say this place has pepperoni and mushroom and cheese. Like, what do you think we should get? I bet you most people would say, let's get half of one kind and half of the other kind.

AlexNo.

MerlinNow, on the other hand, I show you a menu with 16 kinds of pizza, including a lot of bullshit that nobody actually wants. And they're going to order some variety pizzas. And they're going to get clever. And it's going to have truffles. And you're going to end up getting like less than one-fifth cheese pizza. half of the cheese half of the pizza that you order should be cheese pizza because that is what people will eat is my opinion now you you respond to that because you're a foodie over which of which of yeah who do you want us to respond so what do you think max do you think

i mean don't you think that there is a certain uh what is it how do you square this with your

Maxwith the with the theory of pancakes for the table can you explain that for our listeners

Merlinyeah sure well john roderick has this concept it started with a pepperoni pizza for the table John Roddick arrives at a restaurant He says can we please start before we order Please as soon as we get there start making a pepperoni pizza And bring it to the table He also says pancakes for the table Which if you think about it is a fantastic idea

MaxBecause here's the thing if you don't want it you don't have to eat it Since I heard you guys talk about that I've pulled pancakes for the table And people always look at you like you're a lunatic When you order pancakes for the table But let me tell you when they get there Everyone gets a big fork full of those pancakes Now who's laughing Everyone's so fucking happy to have them So fucking happy.

AlexWait, so did the pizza and the pancakes happen at the same time? Or was this at different establishments at different times during the day? Different establishments at different meals. Okay, that's way more normal.

MaxListen, the next time you go to Cozy Corner, immediately when you sit down, you go, well, we're all getting, you know, they come and they say, who wants a coffee? And you go, let's get coffee. And can we just get a pancakes for the table? But while we're deciding what to order. Oh, I have. And they bring them out and everyone is so fucking. Everyone's so happy.

MerlinYou can just grab a little forkful if that's all you want.

MaxIt is not a food that is traditionally shared, but it shares so well. It does. And everyone gets exactly the amount of pancakes you want, which is like one mouthful.

AlexMy mind is blown because I did that the last time I was at Cozy Corner, and there was maybe like 10 of us. It was like my whole family. And I was like, everybody's going to want a side of bacon. And also, can we just get like two stacks of pancakes for the whole table? And they didn't even blink. So have you done this multiple times at Cozy Corner? And now I think it's a thing.

MaxI heard John Roderick talk about this on Roderick on the line, his theory, his theorem of pancakes for the table. And I thought that's brilliant. It's like it's like it's like a dollar fifty of of fried dough and it makes people so happy.

AlexWait, do they fry pancakes? How do you think pancakes are made? Oh, wait, no, no, no. That's deep frying versus pan frying. I had a never mind. I'm going to go back to eating my bar.

MerlinI'm also a big believer in leaning into whatever the place is. This is a very quick side thing. Also leaning into what the place is good at.

Speaker ALet's say they have tapas, what we call small plates.

MerlinIf you go to a place that has really good appetizers, I think you could have an evening of let's have appetizers for dinner. And people get so obsessed with their, when is my big steak going to arrive? But you can have a lot of fun and you're not going to stuff yourself by having lots of appetizers for the table. If everybody's into that and splitting that, I think that's a good one. I'm just saying, especially from the standpoint of being around kids a lot in life, but really around everybody. if i'm gonna say the venn diagram of like people who will eat people

Speaker Apeople who will i'm sad

Merlinbreak my phone i'm rich the uh so here's what you do on the venn diagram of people who can and will eat pizza there's almost no one on the venn diagram of pizza who will not eat cheese pizza they may prefer something else but i'm just saying over 80 i'm gonna guess of people people who can and will eat pizza will eat cheese pizza there's a vastly smaller number of people that

Maxwant one fucking truffles on their pizza or anchovies or whatever i'll even go one further than that which is i think when people are really hungry what they think they want is their you know squid and giardiniera pizza and they they they want what they want is one slice of that and then two to three slices of cheese pizza after that. Everyone wants one slice of their crazy, you know, pork jowl and maple syrup pizza. And then they want the rest. They're just going to be like, I'll just snack on this cheese pizza for the rest of the night.

AlexBut if you really want to be the hero, I say, I agree. Order all cheese pizza. And then you say, oh, God, I'm sorry. Is someone here vegan? And it's like, oh, no, yeah, it's OK. and then you slide out a very small vegan pizza that you have ordered for that one person.

MerlinOh, how small? Is it really small? Wouldn't it be cute if it was like the size of a teacup?

Speaker ALike a little saucer, like here's your pizza.

MaxIt doesn't add anything good on it. It's a single Ritz cracker with some teas melted over it. Hey, wheat has families. Boo. Boo. Sandwich update.

Speaker ADid you see Whole Foods is being protested by vegans? Have you seen this?

MerlinGreat.

Maxcircle back to it oh boy so you're making a sandwich out of pizza what uh okay so i have i'll give my sandwiches real quick so um i have two sandwiches that are my classic all-timer recommended sandwiches in chicago which are the italian sub at barry which is like a walk up you know sort of bodega italian like bodega grocery store thing and you just go ahead and get a sandwich i think for my money that's probably the best sandwich in the city of chicago i in fact i want one right now uh and go ahead if you like spicy food you go ahead and get the hot

jardonnay on that oh boy you're really you're really in for something you're gonna you're you're you're in for a wild ride if you live in the midwest and you haven't been to barry to get that italian sandwich make it a put it on the list the other one that i really like is at my favorite restaurant this place this portuguese and um chinese fusion place it's like they do like macanese style food wow called uh um called uh fat rice they have a sandwich that is a um i think it's called a i hope i'm getting this right i think it's the papa seco is the the portuguese

bread that little crispy dinner roll that's like crisp on the outside and melts away on the inside oh yeah yeah i think you're right i'm pretty sure that's called a papa seco although i hope i'm not screwing that up but so it's one of those sliced in half buttered and then there's a fried pork chop inside of that and then like a spicy Chinese mustard. Oh, that sounds... Oh, I love Chinese mustard. Let me find a picture of this sandwich. It's got to be one of the best things I've ever eaten in my life.

AlexI like their coconut rice. It's very, very good.

MaxOh, yeah. We went there for dinner one time and I don't think there was anything that Alex could eat.

AlexOh, no, no. They're definitely... No, it's genuinely very good. I had had it before and I did the thing where Tom and I called ahead and we're like, can we get a bunch of extra coconut rice? and they're like, yeah, of course. I'm like, okay, okay, good, good, good. It's very good. But I think I did have some of the fancy fried bread.

MerlinIt's your version of Ron Swanson's bacon and eggs.

AlexBasically.

MerlinNo, I don't think you understand. I want all of the coconut rice.

AlexOh, nope, I've not seen this. Oh, wow, look at that. Nope, this is an order. Are those sweetbreads? What's happening? No, it's a pork chop.

MaxThat's a beautiful pork chop. And then there's like crab chips that come with it with a spicy dip. I don't know if I want to have a bone in my sandwich. You just eat around the bone. It's no big deal. Eat around the bone, okay. God, that looks so good. It's one of the best things I've ever had. The consistency of the... So I've made that pork chop. I had to go do so much fucking work because it's like a whole journey that you go on. But you have to like... This pork chop is like marinated for days and you pound it flat with a thing and just the result, it is so crispy and juicy and just melts away in your mouth. Oh my God, it's so good. God, I want this so much.

You gotta come to Chicago. And then I'll also... I'm gonna add one bonus sandwich to this which is my go-to delivery sandwich. And I'll say this, but only with the caveat that Dr. Don, stop listening right now. Because what I get at the office, if I'm really in a pinch, is the Jimmy... Trigger warning for microbiology. Trigger warning for anyone who studies food safety. So what I get is the Jimmy John's Turkey Tom Sandwich, and I'm going to take off the tomato, because the tomato at Jimmy John's is sandwich-ruiningly bad tomato.

It's just a soggy red... Oh, like where they're light pink? It is an awful, upsetting sandwich. and now what I'm gonna do is what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna add the sprouts on there and then I'm gonna go extra sprouts and then a little thing oh cause the sprouts and then a thing pops up going consuming raw sprouts may cause death and you hit okay on the warning and then you just pound that sandwich on and I have that I'll have that a couple times a month I want the maximum number of sprouts I want the main taste on that sandwich to be the raw sprouts

MerlinI eat pho three times a week and that's got sprouts on it should I not be doing that it's got bean sprouts

MaxDr. Don, maybe you'll write in with some follow-up, but I believe what I've heard is that it's a lot like listening to Kanye's music. Eating the raw sprouts is actually bad now. It's problematic now. You give me food, poison! I don't mean... And then sometimes I'll crunch up a little salt and vinegar chip on that sandwich, too. Oh, I love chips on a sandwich.

AlexWait, is that a thing?

MaxCrunching up a chip on a sandwich?

AlexOh, so my pretzel thing is not original at all. Okay.

Speaker Aoh well i think it's the beauty of the sandwich man i mean you can just do whatever you're doing

Maxwhatever you're doing i was in it i have a hot tip for anyone any of our listeners who might be in the los angeles area there's a street food place that ben had read about called los doggis and it's um it is uh let me look up what where it is it's kind of uh in like uh the arts district like downtown area and it's a it's a fucking hot dog stand outside of a like a bank of america and it's just a cart that you go up to i'll send you guys some pictures and you get this mexican street food style hot dog and it is so it's a bacon wrapped grilled jumbo dog i love that they do that here

you wrap a hot dog and bacon yes so good so they had like 20 different kinds of like salsas and and it sits in like a big greasy pile of grease yes and then big slices of avocado grilled sebollitas the long little onions on there um and then crunched up potato chips on top that was one of the best things i had in los angeles that it blew and that place is getting a ton of attention and press and that that los doggis blew my mind it is los doggis d-o-g-i-s go there if you live in the los angeles area it will blow your mind it is so good well be prepared to come up with something

Merlinfunny to end this with because mine's super boring i went with sandwiches that i make at home my two go i did not go with like takeout or uh that's what i understood the challenge to be so yes but you know you can always do the build your own like you know but um no i mean mine are real boring like one is i always am craving um a chicken sandwich i love a spicy chicken sandwich and i have pretty much mastered that with the help of trader joe's uh trader joe's has these bags of like they're kind of like chicken fingers they're chicken fingers basically but they're like real

chicken it's like real chicken that's been fried and god this is so boring so what i do for that is i defrost it a little bit in my microwave which i'm great at and then i finish it on the range top in a ceramic pan with a little bit of a little bit of oil and i will have that pre-fried it has

Maxlike a breading already on it yeah pre-cooked as well yeah yeah yeah you just need to defrost

Merlinthem but i like to defrost them but then crisp them up a little bit on the range top okay and you know critical to all of my sandwiches i have to say is uh what do they call those uh the sweet pickles uh what are those called like is it bread and butter pickles yeah but you know the ones that sweet so what i'll do is i'll get a potato roll a potato hot dog or a hamburger bun and i will put a little mayo on the bottom with tons of pickles i will put usually two of those giant oversized chicken fingers on it and then some frank's uh hot sauce uh directly on there and then i smash

Alexit down real good and it's really really really good i think i with with a bread what is the bread

MerlinPotato hamburger bun. Potato bun.

AlexWhat? Whoa, whoa, whoa. It is a bread made of potatoes.

MerlinI don't know. It's just a kind. How do you describe potato bun? How do you describe? Potato bread is a form of bread in which potato flour or potato starch replaces a portion of the regular wheat flour. I don't know how to describe them.

Speaker AOh, interesting. They're just not as like.

MerlinYeah, but they're real good with a hot dog, too, unless you're being canonical for you guys. But that's one of mine. I kept going through this thing where I was having fucking Jack in the box deliver me to get the minimum order of what could be delivered. I was spending ridiculous amounts of money to get a chicken sandwich delivered. And this has been a great solution. So I would say check out the Trader Joe's. I don't remember the exact name, but they only have one of everything. So whatever their frozen chicken fingers are, they're pretty good. And my kid likes them too. That's my one. And then I got another.

Should I keep going? Yeah, go on, go on. Have you just thought about something funny to say after? Do you have any remarks on this?

AlexThere's little pickles. No, I'm like literally Googling these things.

MaxI got to go find that Trader Joe's chicken fingers. That actually sounds pretty good. It's very good. Now, do you do a toaster oven, Merlin? Do you have a toaster oven at your house?

MerlinNo, we don't. We don't have room for that. Sometimes I'll do it. I'll put a little butter on the, I'll put butter on the bun and sear it sometimes on the thing. But also, because I'm a master of the microwave, I know that you could throw that potato bun in and microwave it on high for 10 to 15 seconds and it'll be real good. It doesn't toast it. But that's a pretty good, that Frank's hot sauce. It's super generic. just like basically frank's like buffalo wing sauce but it's really good um you can also shake it up in a bag if you want it to be like sort of saturated like that but both of my sandwiches require a really minimal amount of effort for a very fast satisfying sandwich now the beauty of

that tj's thing is like you can just have those around what sorry go ahead what's funny what's

Alexfunny no no tj's tj's it's okay wow no go on okay all right all right i just want to be super clear

MerlinI sit through an exhausting amount of regional Chicago foods and restaurants I've never fucking heard of. And I mentioned Trader Joe's and that's weird.

Speaker ANo.

MerlinYou're a monster.

Speaker AShh.

MerlinTrader Joe's. So, but that's nice because you can have that around. And when you're going, oh, I got the hungies. Like, what am I going to have? You got that there. That's a nice kind of thing to have around. It's also why I keep boxes of rice around. Sometimes I've just waited too long and now I need to have food. So that chicken sandwich, that's about an eight-minute sandwich to a pretty good sandwich, and it's hot. So that's one. The other one I make is I make a kind of Arisatz fakey Cuban at home, which would never pass muster with anybody who is an actual Cuban person or Cuban-American person.

But no, I'll do usually just sourdough bread with either pork or sliced turkey with Swiss. And, oh, what am I spacing on that I also put on there? I do put, I put mustard, again, the pickles. Let me find my pickles so I can be clear about what I'm talking about. And I'll make a Cuban on there, like an oversized jokey Cuban. I get Sonoma Brinery outrageous B&B pickles. Bread and butter, fresh bread and butter pickles. So fucking good.

Dills are good, but the bread and butter ones can be super good, especially if they're fresh.

AlexI am not joking when I say this. What makes a pickle a bread and butter pickle?

MerlinThat's just the name of like, or so, you know, you got kosher dill, like that with very heavy dill and very zesty taste. Bread and butter, I don't know why they call them that, but there are bread and butter chips by the Vlasic brand. They're just very, they're still pickly. And especially, like I said, if you get fresh ones, they have a great crunch and a real sweetness. Do you know what I'm talking about, Max? You ever had these? Yeah.

MaxLike a Vlasic pickle.

MerlinYeah, but it's not a spicy pickle. It's a sweet pickle. No, but it's a crinkle cut. But in both of these sandwiches' cases, so for me, a lot of what makes a sandwich good, like I was interested in what you said about your pretzels being an inch apart because I'm very interested in even distribution and I'm very interested in, I'm not going to say mouthfeel, the texture. I'm very interested in texture and I like a sandwich.

MaxOh, texture's the big one.

MerlinIt is. It's so easy to make a disgusting sandwich. that's just... Crispiness is very important to me in a sandwich. There should be some pop. It's like when I make my fake homemade Chicago dogs. Having those little tomatoes on there and along with the sport peppers and along with the natural skin hot dog. Oh my God, there's so much pop and zazz and crackle. It's so fun to eat. And it can be just a very satisfying little treat.

MaxYou don't want a regular hot dog. You want a jazz hot dog.

Speaker AThank you.

Thank you.

Show notes

Transcript

100. Jazz Apple

Show notes

Transcript

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