87. Snaccidental TERF Podcast

AlexMerlin? Hello! Hello! Can you, Chris, can you turn him up this?

MaxOne of us needs to be turned up in the headphone mix. And it's not me and it's not Alex.

MerlinWell, now Merlin's gone completely. Merlin, you there? Yes, yes, I am here. 20 minutes early, every Wednesday. It's almost like you could come in and prep the studio or something.

AlexThis is Dubai Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox, and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, Curate the MCU.

Alex, why am I bad? I don't know. I saw in the Skype chat, which I never know where it is, that you said, come back. I do not think you are bad I don't think you're bad And I don't remember what that was at all Okay

MerlinThat was on July 3rd Which is 8 days ago And today you typed to me in Skype Which you found somehow Good on you You typed you are bad in all caps Why'd you do that?

AlexI'm very jealous What's happening? Why are you jealous?

MerlinWhat is happening? What is happening? This is supposed to be a happy occasion Try so hard to pump you up And you just will not be pumped

AlexI'm pumped, I'm pumped, I'm pumped I've got my Diet Coke, I've got my Diet Coke

MaxWhat do you got, Max? You got a sandwich or something? Well, I'm making my I brought the coffee to the studio today Because there wasn't enough time to finish it Ooh, and it's done I'm doing a little pour over on the V60

AlexYeah, this looks different What is this?

MaxIt's just a V60

AlexYeah, I know what that means

MerlinI could tell just from listening that it was a V60, yeah.

AlexMm-hmm, mm-hmm. It's a pour over, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow.

MaxOkay, now I'm ready to go. So the audience respecter has logged on.

Speaker AI have a couple of pieces of follow-up.

MaxThe chat said that they said in the Discord that I should stop doing my piercing cough directly into the microphone.

MerlinI don't know if I, I don't know.

MaxNoted. I mean, who's the professional here?

MerlinNo. No. I mean, yeah. I mean, there's a phrase from military communications that I wish we could bring in. You know, so like sometimes you say something to somebody. You say, you're feeling good today. And they might say yes. Or you say, hey, you feeling good today. And they might say correct. And I think this is not a Kathy joke. I think we should be allowed to just say ack, which just means acknowledged. Ack. It means I've received.

I have received your signal. I hate Mondays. Ah! Irving! Max!

MaxMax, stop eating on air! Acc! I'm trying to think of other famous comic catchphrases. Does Beetle Bailey have one? Oh, let's see.

MerlinHe's lazy and he's beaten by his manager. Oh, let's see. There's a lot of visual ones. You get Andy Cap. I think he hits his wife and his wife hits him. You get Good Grief, Good Grief, Good Grief from Charlie Brown.

MaxI don't think I've ever read a Peanuts comic strip in my entire life. I can recognize the characters because they're so ubiquitous in pop culture, but I have no nostalgia for it and I don't like it and I don't think I've ever seen the comic. Okay. I have a thought on that. And they're a little upsetting, the character designs to me. Okay.

MerlinAll right. No, fair enough. If you came of age, so to speak, at a time when Peanuts was not very good. I'm thinking about when I was in college. So how old were you in, say, 1986? Well, I would be negative one year old.

AlexOkay. All right. Negative seven

MerlinI want to start the show

AlexI remember reading Peanuts in college

MerlinAnd I loved Peanuts my whole life I had like a collection of Peanuts comics That I read over and over and over And then it got real First of all he brought in Spike He overused Spike Snoopy's brother from Needles, California Way overused

AlexI don't know if this is Spike Peanuts

MerlinYou're familiar with Spike from Needles, California

AlexNo.

MerlinBut it got real pop culture-y and it got real dad jokey. So I think you missed the... Have you ever seen the first Peanuts comic ever?

AlexNo.

MerlinOkay. This will tell you why you need to read Peanuts.

AlexThis looks like a guy, like the guy who puts on a mustache so he can get more free samples from Costco. Hello.

Speaker AI'm a customer who's never been here before.

MaxYou just travel with your own personal sample disguise. let me say since i've since dr don's been on the podcast i've been a lot less excited about the free samples at the grocery store because i do see people i see people put just stick their whole

Merlinfat thumb right into the salsa well that's the one you see that's the one you see max you're seeing the second to the last person to touch that food god willing you're the last person to touch it they're the second to the last you don't know how many came in the chain before that look at that comic oh they're adorable now where's the comic in in our super secret oh Okay, so that's like in the early 50s. Wow, they're sort of lumpy.

Speaker AThis is weird Twitter.

MerlinRead the content. Okay, first one. Two kids that I do not recognize are sitting on some steps, and they see a very happy Charlie Brown coming by, and the voice says, Well, here comes old Charlie Brown. Good old Charlie Brown. Yes, sir. Good old Charlie Brown. how I hate him.

Right as he walks away. Right as he walks away. They're kind of being, they're kind of catty bitches, those girls.

AlexOh my God.

MerlinThat's a boy, I think.

AlexThey're throwing shade. Don't be normative, Merlin. Oh no.

MaxI promised myself I wouldn't be normative this week. Oh no. I guess maybe we shouldn't gender them at all until we ask. Oh no, my genders. Anyway, they hate him.

Speaker AI have so much. Oh my God. I have so much follow up

Maxfrom this week. Alex, we've previously discussed that I was not 100% sure that TERFs were real.

Speaker AI thought that maybe it was some sort of psyop

Maxor some sort of... I thought that it was like a boogeyman. Like, I hear people on Twitter accuse each other of being TERFs, but I've never met a TERF.

MerlinYou thought it was like one of those folk monster kind of things. I thought that it was like the Mothman

Maxin that I know that there's a lot of discussion about the Mothman, but I'm not 100% sure that there's actually Mothman out there. It's like a Slender Man with bangs. Yeah. And so what is a TERF? A TERF is a political position. It stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. And these are sort of, what would you say? They're kind of a more old school feminist and they believe...

AlexNo, no, no, no. They are no form of feminism whatsoever. Okay, they're old.

MaxThey present, they very much present. They're old people who have co-opted the name of feminism and they claim that the sort of trans rights movement is weakening. I'm not I honestly don't really completely follow their point but it's Did you watch the ContraPoints video Max? Yes. Okay. I recommended that how dare you? You should check it out you should check out ContraPoints. ContraPoints how do you spell that?

MerlinC-O-N-T-R-A points. Yeah it sounds good. I mean the way oversimplified version is people who believe very so strongly about feminism that boy I'm going to get this wrong and you're going to get so much email about this They believe that trans women are men, that they have not lived the kind of discrimination and treatment that women have, and they're not entitled. Because who experiences less discrimination than trans people?

MaxI mean, you know, a class of people that Americans notoriously love and don't comment on.

MerlinMax, they're both kinds. It's impossible. They could always just choose to be one or the other, you know?

Alexso there's like more to that now because it used to be that TERFs just hated trans women because like like you said it's like no you you haven't experienced the same oppression as uh people who were assigned female at birth and but now it's like oh no no we uh basically it's like it's penis hate which is they're transphobic but now it's that all trans masculine people and especially binary trans men are basically contributing to les what is it's lesbian erasure that was that

Merlinwas the theme in london right matt or alex yeah so so anyway so we've had this we've you

Alexso you and i have talked about this the thing now is bonkers because it's like oh if you are a trans man that means you are like denying your lesbianism it's it's okay sorry continue next

Maxit's like that movie zardas that now they just like come it's like a giant floating turf head comes out of the mist and it's like the penis is bad guns are good right anyhow anyhow uh anyway so i we've had this conversation a lot and i've and i've said to you that it's so funny because we both like know people like who get engaged in these debates of people calling each other turfs or whatever and i always think it's a little bit funny because i to me i'm like these people there's no such it's like calling someone the moth man it's not real

but however when you went to jolly old england you encountered you like met the moth man i did the lack of this monster is alive and well and just walking around. Hey, Nessie. I saw Turfey. I saw Turfey.

AlexOh, boy. So what was it? They had a rally or something? So the, well, okay. The first thing about like Pride in London, which I had no idea. It's everywhere. I put this on Instagram. If you don't have a Pride flag out during Pride, it's like not having an American flag. Who doesn't want to wear the ribbon?

Yeah, it was like a bit like overwhelming. and I just it was it was so so so weird and like in I'm like did we just what's happening here and we didn't like see a bunch of queer people it was just rainbows everywhere and the street signs like you know how you know how there's like a little man that you uh you see when you're it's like okay it's okay to cross the street yeah um then they had trans symbols instead of the little man crossing the street what's that kind of silhouette how does that silhouette read Alex uh uh are you asking me

describe the trans symbol that i should know and i don't anyway um it was a lovely time anyways it

Merlinsounds like it's uh just really like in the blood there like it's okay it's all okay it's so weird

Alexthat uh there's tolerance anyway the which is well can we just pause for a moment to say how strange

Merlinthat is given the past i mean they used to be yeah i think more america is uh i'm gay-splaining But America was a very everything phobic country to the point where we had coded laws for many years that did not specifically say it's illegal to be gay. We outlawed lots of things where you could prosecute somebody for being gay. But, for example, I was just watching that like surprisingly good Hugh Grant show, A Very British Affair on Prime. It's really good so far. It's got that handsome boy from James Bond in it.

What's his name? The one who's not Timothy Chalamet. What's his name? Ben Wishbone. bone ben wishbones in it but it was like look at what they did to poor fucking alan turing oh yeah

Alexno well at least they were uh they had the courage to come out and actually make it illegal and jail

Merlini guess i'm trying to like i'm trying to say yeah i'm just going to stipulate if this is correct that it was on the books that you will go to jail for being gay people people like brian epstein lots of beatles people people like the grandfather from um a hard day's night these are people who like faced like the destruction of of their life or the near destruction of their life just for like

Alexthe tattles that they might be cottaging and it's uh it's kind of like they're overcompensating it's it's it's uh i i don't know it was like you you asked like oh what's what's maddie's cultural whiplash it was it was like what is happening it was like oh cool every everything's line here. Shouldn't I be more ashamed? Yeah, I'm like, why am I comfortable walking around? Like London, like there's, you know, Islamophobia. It's not a perfect, it's a perfect city. London is the perfect city. I love it more than anything in my five days. No, I, okay, so I expected to go

bankrupt from this trip and I was totally fine with it. But that's the thing, you don't need to, the tube is very, very cheap. And okay, so. It's very diverse though, right? It's, okay, that's the thing i got made fun of when i called it the underground so i don't know what to it's it's a tube um the tube the tube the tube uh but but so the pride hang on mate i'm coming on the

Merlintube oh i can't with the British accent hello hello governor i'm riding the subway to queensberry Victoria. I've got my peas and mash in my buttercup hat.

AlexGet off the tubing on the DL.

MerlinWhy do you think it's going to be fake British?

AlexYou've got to pull the wagon up into your trouser press. Oh boy. I promised I wouldn't talk about London too much, but the Gay Pride Parade. To whom did you promise that? Myself.

MerlinYou have a lot going on, Alex.

AlexYou know that, right? I'm aware.

MerlinI asked you specifically to please share with us your feelings about your trip in particular. your new obsession with the subway too.

AlexOkay, okay. Well, first, the whole pride parade thing, there were some turfs who, they started the parade. That's such a great word. The mothmen started the parade,

Speaker Aand I was surprised.

AlexEverybody around is the turfs.

Speaker AFlying it like flying monkeys.

AlexOh, boy. Well, and there was like, you know, all the... Scatter, turfs. Scatter, scatter, erasure. Erasure. we are here we are queer except we don't want you to be um and the the whole thing was uh like there was a ton a ton of outrage um but not concern which is what i was kind of like every so i was sort of like wow why did they let this happen but of course they they did it under like

they registered under like like just women like basically queer women of london or something they weren't like like ell it out or whatever they're calling themselves um but the thing was no one was there was no like concern i don't know am i'm how do i explain the difference between like anger and concern like people are very angry this had happened but no one in the sort of the feeling

Merlinthe feeling of the crowd and how they or how people reacted to the presence of these people or how the people were acting?

AlexThe people, so I wasn't there when it was happening, but people were very angry that it happened. But once it came out that it wasn't, like they basically snuck their way in.

MerlinAnd they were like at the front of the parade, right?

AlexThey were, yes. But then it was, there was no like concern over people's safety or the attitude of this because everybody, or at least what I saw, like the folks who were actually in London and at the parade, they were all like, fuck these bitches was essentially that. So it wasn't like in other like pride parades where there's controversy and there's like a million, everyone's infighting. There's all like, everybody's attacking each other. This was like, okay, we're all on the same page.

Fuck these people. And then it kind of died, which was nice. Like they, they didn't get a ton of it. They got more attention in the States, I think, because that doesn't, you know, we, I don't know. It was a nice feeling of everybody being like, okay, this is terrible. and we're moving on and let's celebrate everybody else. But okay, the tube, the underground, whatever it is in London, the public transit there is, it's bonkers. I didn't think I'd be able to see much of London,

but you can go anywhere in like 10 minutes. Like what takes like three different transfers on the L or the CTA in Chicago takes one in London. and I just fell in love with it. Everything is so sensible. It tells you which side you're supposed to walk on a ramp. It tells you where to go on the escalator.

MerlinSo it feels like well-designed and thought out and planned?

AlexIt's like the city was, it's like someone took the time to be like, oh, you know what? We should probably put like where people should walk. We should put like where you can get.

MaxThey didn't do that though because that city's just been there for a thousand years.

AlexWell, but then they're like, you know, this is bad. we should change it like we should just put the sign Chicago burned down and they were like we should put underground parking yeah but then but but they they didn't like aren't all the streets just as wide as a carriage or a lorry that's how boston is it's i'm oh boston's a terrible city too

Merlinso yeah city is laid out by parliamentarians but you go for the people yeah yes yeah stay for the cheese sticks there's nothing funny you had a very emotional reaction to this so i think that's very

Alexinteresting people were just thought they thought i was being like goofy old alex but i genuinely

Merlinloved. That's a character you created, by the way.

AlexIt's not a character. Who created Goofy Old Alex? Who is that?

MaxEverybody likes you. You need to get pumped up. Technically, if it was created on work time, I own the copyright. Mr. Banana Grapper. If you use the office printer in the creation of Goofy Old Alex, in the service of the creation of this character, you would have a fiduciary responsibility to the company. Disinforensics on our underpowered

Merlinlaptop you know you could search her hard drive a lot faster if she had an iMac pro very true it would always be here without seven instances of time staff just involving the creation of this character hey alex alex it sounds like you had a really good time and it was really good for you and maddie and it sounds like it was really fucking cool and a nice tonic

Alexfor you yeah no we'll we'll cut this out but honestly like we've had like the we've had like opposite culture, like whiplash coming back. And it's like, oh, yeah, it's terrible here. Oh, yeah, people stare at us all the time.

MerlinI remember when I first heard that. I was probably in college when I very first heard that, that I guess is conventional wisdom now, that supposedly Americans are the only people who feel culture shock when returning to the United States. Because everybody comes back, and you know, you know that annoying kid who's like gone overseas, you know, for a course or something. They come back like, oh, why can't everything run like the bagel lines in Israel or whatever. But it's so true. You come back and you're like, oh my God, other people have solved problems that we are never, ever, ever going to solve. They just, they applied

resources and they fixed a problem and now everything just runs and you're like, it's so frustrating to come back and just be like, how do we live like that?

AlexI didn't have a panic attack going through security. It's like, oh God.

MaxWe have such cultural hegemony in the United States and the country is so big and so insular and people are so, you just like live in this culturally ignorant culture like that surrounds you that then when you it's so surprising and refreshing to go somewhere else whereas people in other countries like if you live in another country you're just automatically like exposed to more people from

Merlinmore cultures for now yeah i remember going through heath row and uh this was probably 2010 or so and i remember taking off taking off everything this was you know really at the height of the security theater we were still we still had uh you know visions of underwear bombs dancing in our heads i'm taking everything off i got my belt off i got my shoes off and this guy in my head i remember him looking like a bobby in london but i don't think he was but he said to me please sir you're

Speaker Ain britain i said oh god i'm so sorry let me put my clothes back on and put on my trousers

Alexoh congratulations it sounds like a good trip it was i it was the the best and maddie had fun oh my god like it was the thing of um tiff said that it she was like wow slowly i think maddie is has become less afraid of us and then i was like yep that's true yep yep it's everything everyone

Maxis less afraid of everything i'm less afraid of of if i if i was being eaten by a shark i'd be less afraid of the shark than you are of of like other podcasters i forget well that's the thing i

Alexalways tell people like no don't be friends like you don't want to be friends with other pocket you don't want to be friends with anybody but it's just that's good really super good advice no but you know what i mean like just because you hear someone's voice doesn't mean you enjoy them as a person it just so in fact they're probably they're probably very harmful it just so

Maxhappens that i think a lot of podcasters when they try to befriend you they're they're basically casing the joint to figure out when they can break in and steal your longest con ever oh come be on

Merlinmy podcast be my podcast worker network be my friend fucking long con your cordless your lesbian

Maxcordless drill is going away my that's exactly right is it true is it not true is it not true that mike hurley knows exactly when you're in the podcast studio and he could break into your blue lives matter house and steal steal your or no what's that your sphero one of your little robots meet me

AlexMax you've got some follow up

MaxI have so much follow up let's see here where to start first of all I'm literally begging you to do something to make Merlin louder in my headphones hello can we maybe turn Alex and I down do you want me to turn mine

Merlinshould I turn up my mic I don't think

Maxunless you've made radical changes in the last week.

AlexWait.

MaxWell, that's not a control that we have.

MerlinOkay, I'm turning, I'm turning, I have turned me up. Great. I have turned me up and I am near the red on the USB pre, but pretty good. This is much better.

MaxOkay. Great. Okay, cool. So now my volume is up and we're quieter. Okay, cool. It's very hard not to talk over Merlin because I can't, he's very, coming in very faintly in my headphones.

AlexSee, I lie. I just interrupt Merlin. I'm like, oh, sorry, there's a delay. Robots, robots, robots.

MerlinI like you. All right. You can't turn me against you. I'm going to tell you why I tell my daughter. You know what your problem is? I trust you. That's your problem. Your problem is I trust you. You can't hurt me.

MaxYou can try. Well, we know when you're out of the house getting your phone. We could organize a break-in and point the two of hearts in your deck of cards.

MerlinBut how do we know that the PG&E people aren't Russians? Is the question.

Speaker AOh, Russian. Sigh out. Diggit, diggit, diggit. Follow up.

MerlinMax. Max. Remember when you guys sent you the screen? grab the greatest next door post ever oh my god yes okay dig it dig it dig it max do you want me

Maxto read it you have to read it no i want you to do your follow up okay sure uh so i have a couple of different things first of all uh as you may know if you're a listener of the dubai friday podcast we actually record two episodes every week there's this episode uh which you're listening to for free uh because you're i assume you're listening to it for free because you're an ingrate and you don't care for us. But if you're a true fan of the Dubai Friday podcast and you want to befriend us in real life, you can go to giveusyourfuckingmoney.com and you can give us your fucking money. You can give us $5 a month and you get access to a second episode every week.

It's our after show where we plan the next week's challenge and talk about things that will probably get us in trouble if we put it on the main podcast feed. This week, we have a very special guest joining us on the after show to pitch the challenge for next week and participate in this week's challenge, I think. And you can find out who that is. Should we say who it is? That's a pretty special guest. I feel like that's pretty pro shit. I think we should. I'm excited about this. So we're going to be joined by author, public speaker, critic, and founder of the Feminist Frequency Network, Anita Sarkeesian, who's going to be pitching a challenge to us next

week. So you can hear that on the after show if you go to give us...

MerlinIs she officially a friend of the show, Master?

MaxOr do we just admire her? No, no. She's officially a friend of the show. Okay. Yeah. She's a friend of the pod. Has she heard? Oh, my God. Use that code. Has she heard the show? not only listens to the show, but occasionally texts me and tells me that I'm wrong about something on the show.

Speaker ASo thank you, Anita.

MaxYeah. So anyway, you can, uh, you can dial into the after show at, uh, give us your fucking money.com. I said dial in like it's a radio, but you can, uh, wherever podcasts are found at give us your fucking money.com. Let's see what else. Uh, number, number two, uh, uh, uh, Senator, let's see, this comes out on Friday. Senator Tim Kaine from the great state of Virginia Will be at the Cards Against Humanity office Tonight Well on Friday when this comes out

Speaker AYeah he called me And asked me to do an event Is this the guy from the campaign He's the guy

MaxYou may remember him as What's Her Face is Running Mate Oh that's right He looks like cool bands And stuff right You know what He called me on my cell phone and he asked if we would do an event for him at the office. And I said we would if he played the harmonica and he agreed that he would play the harmonica. So he kind of called my bluff. So he is coming tonight.

MerlinPresently you should dance for me, Kane.

MaxWell, I thought that might be enough to not have to do the event. But here we are. And I will put a link. We have just added, well, their suggested price to get a ticket would be $5,400 to join the host committee, to join as a co-host. Well, I will not be seeing you for it. And you can take an official photograph with Senator Tim Kaine for that amount of money. Can you ask him about the Supreme Court nominee?

Can you have Anita talk to him about that? So I believe... Love to get you on our side on that one, Kaine. So I'm pretty sure. I don't know. Listen, I don't have a law degree. You don't follow politics. I don't follow politics. But I think if you do give the senator $5,400, I think you get one vote of his that you can pick in the upcoming calendar year.

MerlinIs it like a coupon for Hot Topic? You could apply it wherever I'm going to go?

MaxIt's a deep cut. It's good, exactly. It's good for one calendar year, you get one vote. Now, that's a joke.

MerlinAlex, you have no idea how many Hot Topic coupons we have.

MaxThat's a joke that I just want to clarify that I'm doing a humorous bit that is not, in fact, true. But you can join the host committee for $5,400. Or, I suppose if you want, you could just get a ticket for $30. Why do people want to stream it, Max? Can you stream it? Yeah, we're not doing a stream of this. But it'll be fun. We're doing a comedy show. He's going to play the harmonica and give a little talk, and they'll probably be like deviled eggs or something like that. So that's $30, and we'll put the link in the show notes if you're in Chicago. And let's see. I think I might have had one other.

Let me refer to my notes here. What else did I have? Oh, right. So last week, Jen and I, friend of the show, Jen. I don't know why we call her a friend of the show. I'm pretty sure she doesn't listen. I think we're a friend of her show. Yeah, I think we're a friend of, I think, I think our podcast that we listen to, Friendshiping host, Jim Bain and I had a call with this group called Raices and they're a group of lawyers in Texas who are basically posting bail for the children in these immigration camps.

And they, they're just, I don't know, they're just lawyers and they went down to Texas to help these kids and every day they like write bond checks and they like walk to the ICE office and do the legal paperwork and like basically postpone and get these kids out of these camps and reunite them with their families. And Jen and I had sort of a strategy call with them. We were talking about some live streaming stuff and I wanted to sort of do a proof of concept. So that night I did a, I set up a little stream in my basement on the, with the Dubai Friday Discord server. We invited everyone to come and stream some like Jackbox games with us.

And a friend of the show, Matt, our Discord moderator was joined us for that. and I put up a little goal on the screen, like a thermometer, and I was like, let's try and raise $300 for Rice Ace. And we played games for about two hours with the Dubai Friday audience and we raised $1,300 in two hours just playing video games. So thank you. That's so cool. It was very cool. So thank you very much. Thank you kindly to the Dubai Friday audience for doing that. And in fact, it was so successful and I had so much fun that I think we're going to make that a regular thing. So I will be doing some more streaming.

And if you're on the Dubai Friday Discord server, you can join for that. And I have a little survey that I created to ask people what gimmicks they want me to do on the stream that would be the most fun for them to watch. And Alex will also post that survey in the show notes. It's just three questions of what kind of games do you want, do you think would be fun for us to play on the stream. But by far, I will say the most requested thing that people said would raise the most money for charity is Merlin and Alex, if you guys come on the stream

Alexand play some games. I said, it was 4 a.m. my time.

MaxI guess if those kids aren't important You all have to prioritize

AlexI heard about this stream the next morning When people are like where's Alex

MerlinThis is the first I'm hearing about this

MaxIt wasn't planned

MerlinDo you guys have Galaga? Yeah he smashed a watermelon Oh yeah that's the other guy That's his brother That's Galaga 2 I don't know what video game I would play

MaxHave you ever played quiplash or fibbage or anything like that?

MerlinOh, fibbage, yeah. Back in middle school, Quidditch and Fibonacci were. It was huge. Why do you always play the Quidditch and the Fibonacci? One of the problems is what I call the damsel in distress trope.

MaxWe played one game called TKO where you design funny t-shirts and did you see the one that someone made of your face? Oh yeah, I did see those. Those were funny. Yeah, so you could come on and do that. You just play on your phone. Oh.

MerlinOkay. Just schedule it. Please schedule it and be on time.

Speaker AI can promise to schedule it. Oh, boy.

MaxLet's see. Further follow-up.

MerlinIs it follow-up or is it promotion, Max? Are we into the proper follow-up?

MaxLet's follow-up forward. So you guys know that I like to browse the app Instagram. And for a long time on Instagram, I think I was part of a protected class of Instagram power users that didn't see any advertisements. Have you guys heard?

Speaker ADo you guys know about that? You're the specials. Well, for a while. But then all of a sudden, I started seeing ads.

MaxI believe also when I started seeing ads, I think Gruber might have posted something and saying, hey, is anyone seeing ads all of a sudden on Instagram? But that thing is crawling with ads.

Alexdo you guys see the crazy ads on instagram oh yeah what do you get ads for uh let me you know let me open it up right here because it's now every other it's about every third it's got my

Maxtumblr it's about every third so many ads and they're for such crazy bullshit i get a lot of

Alexsoylent ads oh look at that pretty cat oh so nintendo switch got really that's a good that's like a reputable ad uh there's one that's it's medcline which is a pillow that it's just a fancy pillow um the uh olivia which is a oh it's a yeah it's a fancy phone case um they've really got you dialed in i got a wow no guys i uh there's lux which is a battery case um phone gadgets which

Maxis oh my god do you get cameras i get camera accessories you get a lot of like kickstarter

Alexor like indiegogo camera accessories i mean how yeah it not like from real companies but so many Kickstarter and Indiegogo things.

MaxFrom like scammy Indiegogo.

AlexYes. This is the craziest tripod head you've ever seen. Oh, did you see the octopus tripod? Yeah. Yeah, that's the one I got. A piece of luggage called Paraval? Paraval? Yeah.

MaxI get the ads on Instagram that are like the equivalent of old people seeing catheter ads on Fox News. I love to fly my plane with my catheter. It's just virtually painless. I just get such condescending ads that make me feel like such a piece of shit when I go on Instagram. but I got an all-timer the other day that I need to share with you guys. I'm going to go ahead and post this in the chat here. So this is for a food, and it's a bar. It's a food bar, and it's called Great Food.

Registered trademark. And I'm going to read a little bit. It looks like a dry, crumbly snack bar. And I'm going to read the copy now. It says It looks like Something you would Give your kid And say no try it It's not bad Some sort of Carib and nut bar

MerlinIt's got like A cute monster on it It's got pretty good Packaging

MaxThey look like kudos And it says Is your night snacking Out of control And then three question marks Hey you're not alone 70% of Americans Snack at night The most popular choice Is cookies Chips Ice cream and candy

AlexAKA good things That we enjoy eating

MaxDeep down inside You know you really Shouldn't be eating That stuff at all especially not right before you go to bed.

AlexYou're nightly snack accident.

MerlinYou're nightly snack accident. You're nightly snack accident. It's killing your diet and messing with your sleep. Snack accident.

MaxI'm not sure if I'm going to allow that. The bad news is that the, did you guys ever, do you guys ever remember that ad for eyelash paste for ladies and it's advertised that it would give you more crellaceous lashes.

AlexI think that's still a thing.

MaxThe bad news is those nighttime cravings aren't going to go away suddenly. The good news is guess what the good news is? What? There's night food registered trademark. Delicious night food registered trademark. Snack bars are especially formulated.

MerlinSnack-cidental.

MaxTo satisfy.

Speaker Aspecially formulated to satisfy the

Merlinnow the day is over you didn't even mean to begin cause it was snack-cidental snack-cidental got those cookies and candies but it makes you feel like a night time monster cause it's snack-cidental and you can find these bars if you get them on the web and I will send them to you if not you will be dead F-N-I-G-H-T-F-O-O-D That's nice food

AlexOh boy

MaxWe owe Jonathan Mann money now So long Order a box now Or try both flavors with free shipping If you don't love him let us know And we'll refund your money simple

Speaker AOh so it's free food Free real estate Free real estate This message is for Jim Boone

AlexFree real estate oh i just got an idea for patreon report okay go you gotta go to giveusyourfuckingmoney.com because i have a really i think i have a good one are we gonna send people night food no i think i have a good one though that people have requested i do okay anyway so did you purchase this what are

Maxyou talking about of course not what should i buy it for the podcast i want to i want some Oh, let's see. Investors. Here we go. Investors. Now, this is taking me to ir.nightfood.com. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. They're VC funded.

AlexWell, of course they are. Of course they are.

MaxNo.

AlexWhat ad on Instagram isn't VC funded or kickstarted?

MerlinI don't know if I want this. I'm pretty lousy with bars anyway.

MaxHave you ever just eaten one bar? Isn't the suggested serving size of a Pop-Tart one Pop-Tart? Real-time follow-up.

AlexI got, oh, eat me.

MaxYou'll crush it today. Explain what's happening.

AlexI got, oh.

MaxI'm in the studio with you, and I don't know what's happening.

AlexMaddie left me a note that says, eat me, which is not. No, it's a point. It's a point pointing to an RX bar, and you'll crush it today. It's kind of appropriating lesbian culture. Yeah, I know. Love you so much, Maddie. Hooray. But this bar. Yeah. Oh, thank you, Matt. I'm very hungry now. I have no idea what time to eat anymore. I don't know what time to... Are you still feeling...

MerlinYou're still pretty jet-lagged, right?

AlexWell, that's the thing. I keep doing like a... What's his... I'm doing a reach-around where it's like... Okay. Yeah, now I'm like on Pacific... I have no idea.

MerlinOh, you did a full reach-around. Well, you know, the problem is that your organs... Do you know about this? What really causes jet-lag? It's not just the time difference. It's not just the sleep. It's also the food. it's basically several of your organs are very confused about what time it is and your organs might actually believe several like three or four of your organs might think it's different times

Alexright now and that's why you're so fucked up yeah i had a friend make me a workflow to figure out what time to take my meds because it's like

Merlini could be sitting there with a calculator a laptop and an iphone and i still can never figure out what time it actually is. It's the worst.

AlexI really like RX bars, guys. See, now you can get mad at me for eating and not Max.

MaxThose are good. I like the chocolate sea salt. No BS. Well, I don't... Honestly, I don't really want to talk about the news this week. Do you think we need to cover anything?

MerlinNo, that's okay. I had a couple things from... I'm now declaring him a friend of the show. He doesn't know it yet, but I'm declaring Will Summer a friend of the show.

MaxHe had a couple of real good things this week. Yeah, let's go. Let's talk about that. And also Scott Pruitt resigned, I think, as a result of our podcast.

MerlinYeah, yeah, yeah. Do you want to read the... Oh, never mind.

Speaker AYou're not in the doc for some reason.

MaxThere's a doc? Well, I don't want to read this whole thing, but I... Wait, did I read... Is this the explainer? No, no. I'll read a little of this. Please.

MerlinSo basically, this... The new friend of the show, Will Summer. Hi, Will. Come on our show. Come on, Dubai Friday. this is yesterday he was live covering so headline Seth Rich conspiracy theorist event fizzles spectacularly lobbyist Jack Berkman invited reporters to huddle around a phone in a holiday in conference room on Tuesday promising damning revelations about the 2016 murder of Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich on the other end of the call Berkman insisted was a former intelligence operative with an explosive revelation government agents from the

DEA and ATF were behind Rich's murder Berkman's source, codename Luke, was about to blow the still unsolved case open. So the event had a lot of problems.

Let's get into the good ones here. So the event was the latest production from Berkman, an attention-hungry Washington character whose previous causes have included banning gay athletes from the NFL. After initially considering having his mystery source appear in person with a quote-unquote mask or bag over his head, Berkman eventually opted for the call, claiming it was too dangerous for a source to appear in public. Berkman, dressed in a silvery suit and crocodile skin loafers, quipped before the press conference that he was successfully recovering from an attempt on his own life in March that had been the apparent result of a feud with an underling over the direction of their freelance rich investigation.

I have two bullets in me, Berkman told the Daily Beast.

AlexI'm still looking at this microphone setup in this photograph here. Like, what's happening? There's a zoom.

MerlinI don't think that's how microphones work. Okay, here we go. He couldn't get the call to work. The call from his tipster ostensibly whistleblowing. kept getting bounced back to the phone at the reception desk at the Northern Virginia Hotel. Berkman scrambled out of the room, leaving reporters in Berkman's online audience, watching live from a variety of live streams operated by fringe internet personalities wondering what exactly was going on. Let's see. Okay, here we go. With the press and YouTube live streamers crowded around the phone, Luke spun a confusing tale involving two assassins, or maybe three assassins,

from the DEA and ATF, tracking Rich to murder him and take a thumb drive containing confidential documents. The supposed whistleblower story grew as the call went on, with Luke claiming that he had passed a lie detector test administered by the Secret Service, and he'd also received vague help from the House Intelligence Committee. Luke wouldn't explain why anyone should believe him, and he grew flustered when asked to explain his claim that the House Intelligence Committee was involved in his investigation. Uh, they helped us with computer things, Luke said. Anyway, and apparently it was received very poorly by the community.

MaxThere was an op-ed, and I think in the, I want to say in the New York Times today, and I was basically saying that, who's Trump's, this ghoul that he appointed, he's appointing, I can't remember his name. Oh, you're talking about, oh, Kavanaugh? Kavanaugh. Yeah, they were saying that Kavanaugh's actually a moderate because he doesn't believe, he looked into the matter, and he doesn't believe that Hillary Clinton murdered Vince Foster.

So he's actually a moderate.

Speaker AHe's a centrist.

MaxHe's a centrist, right. It's good for Trump for having the dignity to appoint a moderate, sensible centrist who does not believe. You know, he takes the centrist position that Hillary Clinton did not murder Vince Foster.

MerlinAs far as he knows. That's the beauty of a true centrist if you're going to have a centrist jurist. A centrist jurist is somebody who is not completely sold on a thing everybody else knows, which is that it's a bunch of pedophile murderers. But you know, his mind is open and that's important.

MaxI like that Will Summer explainer on QAnon that came out this week. That was phenomenal.

MerlinDid you see the thing about spinal fluid?

Speaker AGo on.

MerlinI love this guy so much. I was talking to him on the Twitter yesterday saying how funny it was. You basically, I didn't realize how much I liked this guy. I didn't have a name to go with the work that I had been enjoying and that you had sort of turned me on to his stuff.

This is good radio. This is why we edit.

Speaker AShut up.

MerlinOkay, this is from July 9th, Will Sommer. This weekend's QAnon development, the QAnon crew, has become fixated on fluids, especially a spinal fluid they claim globalists drain from children and eat to survive. It's really escalating.

Speaker AOh, boy. I think it went to fluids. Watch the water.

MaxHave you guys ever seen the picture of how they get the fluid out of the crabs? No, how do you get crab fluid? Hang on. It's a crab juicer? So the title of this article is, The Blue Blood of a Horseshoe Crab is Precious. So they take these horseshoe crabs and they put them in these contraptions and they extract their special liquids. Their precious bodily fluids.

MerlinPurity of essence.

MaxLook at that picture. It's one of the craziest sci-fi things I've ever seen in my life.

MerlinLook at that. Oh, I don't think I like that at all. Oh, no. At least we've got our show art. Oh, my goodness.

MaxIsn't that incredible? Every once in a while, I remember that this picture exists and I go online and I look at it and I go, man, humans are so cool. I don't know. Oh, yeah. Look at us. It's a PBF. It's a precious bodily fluid.

MerlinOh, God. I will no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination. We've really made these crabs our bitch. Look at that. We're getting their blue juices. We cut the crabs.

AlexDo you still listen to the Ezra Klein show, Merlin?

MerlinI sometimes go by who the guest is.

AlexThere's this whole thing about how the greatest atrocity that humanity is committing is that is we're killing animals and eating them which right i mean uh but this thing it's like we it's like we're the aliens or the robots in the matrix whatever no this is very this is definitely very

Maxbad this is very bad oh my god this is like that season finale of voyager where the other star fleet ship has the the what is it they're like the the temporal creatures and they're like they're like draining their precious bodily fluids for the warp energy. Oh, yes. Classic episode. Classic. Did you guys listen to the MP3 I sent you?

MerlinClick on it now. Look in the text for the word hot. I'm clicking on it now. Please turn up

Maxyour laptop very loud. Okay. For some reason my laptop is not producing any sound. Alex, this might be on you.

AlexYour laptop isn't plugged into anything. But the speakers are on. I don't know.

MaxI just want you to hear it in the room. You can always add it later.

AlexHere, I'll do it.

Maxlaptop isn't connected to anything. These laptops have many bugs. Has anyone said that these touch Macs First I'm hearing of it. Hot hands. Hot hands. Hot hands. Hot hands. Hot hands. Hot hands.

AlexWhat? Who did this? Syracuse. Oh my god. Hot hands. Hot hands. We gotta do it again.

MaxHot hands. Hot hands. Hot hands. Hot hands. Hot hands. Hot hands. Hot hands. Hot hands.

Speaker Aoh my god can you drop that in oh my god why did he make this because he hears

Merlinthings that we don't hear

Speaker Alet's see if i can find the actual transcript here what did he say i saw a picture on instagram of

Maxall the the um atp boys oh wasn't that cute all wearing their little suit he looks so handsome like the first day of school all lined up john syracusa is uh he's a handsome man yeah

MerlinMm-hmm. I wouldn't throw them out of my bed for eating Pearl.

MaxDo you guys want to see another picture of the crab hooked up to the fluid extractor? Yes.

AlexI mean, no, but I know it's going to happen.

MaxPut it in the chat right now. Blood. They're precious bodily crab. bullets i mean we also eat them so i don't know how bad this is in comparison but when the crabs

Merlinblue colored blood oh god oh no this one's worse this one looks like it's got a kind of david

Maxfincher quality oh no oh the whole thing is very um uh h.r geiger to me yes i could see that yeah

Alexyeah oh wow this looks like the uh the the liquid they use in tampon commercials Oh you're right The fake Menses What if that's what it's Oh god Maybe that's where it comes from That's where It's using the precious crabs That's what we need it for

MerlinThat's what we need it for Because most Most of the The blue liquids you get Are photo blue They're not going to show up On a camera But for some reason The horseshoe crab Looks like a Menses That's good

MaxYou know I wonder I wonder if Okay You know we like to come up With different like businesses And startups here on The Dubai Friday I think of us I think of us as an incubator Well, I think it's either we're going to have to start reading ads for financial products and mattresses or we're going to have to get one of these businesses going. And I wonder, so we know from the investor material from Night Food that the nighttime snacking industry is a $7 billion a year industry. And we also know that people want their precious bodily fluids from the crabs to restore their vital energies.

now I wonder if you couldn't do some sort of you know like one of those like little like poppers that you do like a five hour energy oh so you bring together a Damon and a Laurie

Alexoh I'm familiar it's like one of those little shots yeah I did one like a five hour crab energy

Maxyeah that's what I'm saying it's a night but it's for night time it's five hour crab night energy

AlexI see okay

Maxcan it also give you a boner I think I think that's going to happen no matter what we do. You're so full of crab energy.

AlexHonest to God, when Max was like talking about draining the crab fluid, I'm like, well, I've never had crabs. Is this something I thought it was? I thought it was an underbit situation.

MerlinIt's pretty blue.

AlexNo. Oh, God. It's so blue.

MaxWell, it's going to be, think of how you, that you put in a clear bottle. That way people know that they're getting the only the highest quality crab fluids. Oh, God. And we'll have a, well, listen, we're going to have a whole array of these crab extractors. They're like in these

AlexThat's the thing They're not even

MaxWhat is that The whole straw Going right into It's mandibles I mean how much Could it cost

MerlinYou get a bungee cord And you get a wire And you get a bottle I mean the markup That we could do on this Would be tremendous Giving people Nighttime energy crab boners

MaxI think you're selling An evening crab shot For eight Nine dollars a piece You know what

MerlinWell tell them It's an adaptogen Like we don't It's not for anything But it might be For everything

MaxWell we're not I mean there were Legally, the FDA is going to have...

MerlinNo, the FDA will not allow us to tell you you're going to get a crab boner.

MaxYeah. Yeah. Now, do a lot of people say that they get crab boners when they take this? Yes. Anecdotally, yes. Absolutely. Are we allowed to say that you will get a boner? Well, not within the law. No.

AlexBut say goodbye to snack-cidents. But that's because...

MaxThat's because...

MerlinI love the idea of a snack-cident. Like, fuck! I can't believe I ate that! Like, you're out of your mind. Like, you black out. And didn't know you ate a whole pan of brownies. Uh-oh, I made a snack accident.

MaxBirthday cake falling out of here. Oopsie, poopsie!

MerlinOopsie, doopsie.

Speaker AOh, God.

MerlinCan I ask you one very short bit of follow-up, please, Max, just for my own interest? Please.

MaxI invite it.

MerlinOkay, is it correct? Did you dip a toe into Kitchen Nightmares?

MaxOh, yes! Yeah, we didn't talk about that. Yeah, so based on your recommendation last week, I've never actually seen the show Kitchen Nightmares. I've only ever heard people talk about it and seen it parody and things like that. And I watched two episodes on Merlin's recommendation. I watched with Veronica. So first we watched the one which is the one where he goes, it's Rotten Muhammad.

It's Rotten Muhammad.

MerlinThat is the Indian slash British restaurant in Manhattan with the very, very touchy and an incompetent manager who loves his flip phone. And then you also watched Amy's Baking Company?

MaxYes, we watched one for, so this is one where Gordon Ramsay goes to a restaurant called Amy's Baking Company. And this can't be real. I mean, it must be, I mean, I don't know if they're crisis actors. Most people come in and say that's the best pizza they've ever had in their life. I think that I might have seen David Hogg in there. I think the whole thing might have been... Crisis actor restaurant. I think the whole thing might be fair. I think it's a false flag. Because they have cameras in there when he walks in.

MerlinI always have to point that out to my daughter. I choose to point that out to my daughter. We are watching a TV show that is very manicured. And whenever you see Gordon entering the restaurant, there's already a camera there, which means there's already lighting there, which means there are already producers. The producers know where the mice and the roaches are. They know before he ever arrives. They know you should never order the crab cakes. He's going to ask if they're frozen, and they're always frozen. The crab cakes are always frozen.

MaxTo my daughter, when I see Gordon Ramsay come into the show Kitchen Nightmares,

Speaker Athat's Gordon Ramsay. That's Gordo.

MaxOkay, good. I'm just glad you watched. Yeah, it was fucking crazy. That show was crazy. I don't want to watch more. It was very upsetting and stressful.

MerlinHis new show is somehow even stupider. His new show is called Gordon Ramsay 24 Hours to Hell and Back. And he does the same thing as Kitchen Nightmares, except it's got two twists. The second twist is he has to do the entire turnaround in 24 hours, quote unquote. The first twist is that he finds a way to enter the restaurant wearing a disguise. He pretends to be part of a jazz band with a strap-on beard. And it's real, it's real, real bad. He makes the entire dining, the entire staff,

and all the diners come out and look at the side of a semi where he has a giant screen come out of a truck to show them all the mice

Maxand the toast. Now, one of the funniest things about Kitchen Nightmares is Gordon Ramsay comes in and he's losing his mind and he's like... He's rubbing his head. There's rotten food and he's got his head down in his hands and he's shaking. Yeah, he orders his salmon burger and he pokes at it. He squeezes it. Oh, no. Oh, no.

He's so stressed out. He's losing his mind. Nobody asked him to be there. He's not in charge of this restaurant. Why is he so stressed out?

MerlinThey have the new weeks and they probably, they go out. I'm sure they, you know what, save it for another show. We should make this a challenge. But you know, it's something where they go out and find struggling restaurants run by alcoholic OCD sufferers and like very problematic people. And then, you know, the producers go in there and just tear the fucking place apart. Gordon hates dust.

MaxDo you think Dr. Don has seen this? Oh, that's a good question.

MerlinThat would be a good one.

MaxWhat I want to know is, are most restaurants like this and just the ones that are, that most restaurants like this and they have coping mechanisms so that as the guest, you don't see it? Or are these special cases and Gordon Ramsay just finds them?

MerlinI mean, I hate to say this. I'm not saying this to make a joke many many many of these people are obviously clinically depressed and the last thing that they want to do is scrape the grease out from under the oven and they're obviously they're in total denial about their life they have terrible financial problems some of them are alcoholics and it's so difficult to watch because you can see how they're supposed to be real game about the whole thing like you've got to like fight back for the first two acts and then the third act you have to agree to Gordon making your restaurant blue and serving

serving a burger.

Speaker AIt's so blue.

MerlinYeah, everything's gray-blue. And then you're supposed to be real grateful. And then you always end up going to this one blog spot account that tells you what happened to the restaurant after. Not good. Not a good slugging percentage for Gordon.

MaxSo it's a little bit like The Bachelor. Oh, do you follow up on that? Well, when we had a friend of the show, Allie, on, I believe she said there's been like 30 seasons within The Bachelor-verse and only two couples have ever stayed married.

AlexCan't imagine my... Do you think Queer Eye's real? Did you read the article? Which one is that?

MerlinThe one I sent you about the trans man

Maxand his behind the scenes stuff? Oh, yeah, Skylar. It was like, I saw that and it was like the one shocking thing that Skylar wants you to know about what it was really like to be in Queer Eye. It's a shitty, shitty... And then you click on the article and it's like, it was pretty good. These guys were so much nicer than you could even see.

Merlinno i just i think it is i think it is real in the sense that those guys are very they're very charismatic and i think they do tend to very genuinely probably care to the extent that they you know would about any stranger i think they get a tremendous amount of help especially on

Alexthe home stuff oh well i mean they show the contractors yeah they don't they don't hide that

Merlinthey have a whole crew of worker bees who swarm in you asked you asked and i'm saying like i'll tell you what amazes me though is jonathan seems to genuinely have some grooming skills like that seems like well he so i remember i used to watch the old queer eye and it was um family television

Maxlike i watched it with my parents and it was like part of it was that we watched a lot of bravo in my house growing up because bravo had um reruns of west wing and sports night and like sort of the really good tv all the time bravo used to be like like a and e bravo used to at one time was like a It was great. And so Bravo, almost every night when we were watching dinner, when we were having dinner, if we were to watch TV, Bravo was the consensus choice because it would be a rerun of West Wing or it would be Top Chef or it would be Queer Eye. And that was how I think how we got into it.

But I remember in the old one, there was like a grooming guy, but I don't recall that he ever cut the hair. I think he would sort of take them to the salon and show them how to use the salon. But it is more, I agree with you, like it's more personal that Jonathan shows them how to like make a cosmetic and use it and actually cuts their hair and it's part of their story on

Merlinthe all-time goat that first episode where he's showing the guy how to help with his lupus and use this green stuff and like that's one of the best episodes of tv ever that i don't know if it's all true you know supposedly they got married and they're still together him and abby yeah but the one with skylar was really good not least because it had cars against humanity in it but um but also no i just thought that was such a nice episode and i liked skylar's follow-up of that of like well, there's all kinds of like, how did he put it? Like behind the scenes sort of like educating them. Like, cause you get the feeling that Tan is what?

A pretty traditional fancy gay guy. Like I don't get the, he doesn't, Tan does not seem to me like a guy who's like going out to lots of rallies and stuff.

AlexLike he's a basic ass gay. Okay. All right. That's not a bad thing. Like it's not. But he's still, he's very open and seems to like learning things,

Merlinbut I don't know who knows how much of it is.

MaxSo, honestly, that describes a lot of gay friends that I have. Yeah. Of, like, they are gay, and that's, like, one of their attributes, but they haven't made it, like, their main thing. Like, they would rather be comic book guy or, you know what I mean?

MerlinYeah. Yeah, it's like, I got a couple neighbors that have been together, or next-door neighbors have been together for probably 25 years. And they very much read like that to me. Like, I don't think that they're self-identifying. I don't think they're sitting down and like really digging into books to learn new stuff every day about about the struggle. Like they have a very comfortable life in a city where what they do is just not a thing.

MaxIt's just it's just so you know, people forget because I think that tan and some of those maybe some of the guys got I think I saw that they might have gotten some heat online for that for not knowing things about trans issues or whatever. But remember also in the episode where they they've helped the guy with coming out in the first part of the season or whatever. the black guy that the black guy yeah i love that one of the things that they were able to say to him is like you can be gay and be an out gay man and not not have it be the only facet of your identity even if you want your sex swings i love the sex swing oh he had the harness too right yeah

yeah he did have a lot going on but listen people are complicated and i do i do think it's a bummer that, listen, I'm not gay, so I don't know what this is like, but I can see how there would be pressure on someone that if you are gay, that you might be bummed that there's this pressure on you to make it a larger part of your identity than it actually is in your own self-conception. Not for everyone, for some people, right? Some people are like, yeah, it's like, well, I'm straight, but it plays almost, what, 10%

role of my self-conception of myself, and I wouldn't want it to play a higher role.

MerlinWell, thank God. First of all, it's the definition of privilege. And second of all, the people who do do that are horrible people. The people who mainly identify as being straight. Oh, my goodness.

Speaker AOh, yeah. There's one of those.

MaxOne thing I think we can say about them is that they're definitely straight.

AlexOh, man. Well, one thing about. So I kind of like how you guys are into. You follow up on like TV and shit. Most people have no idea that like there was a ton of drama around this show, the Skylar episode.

Speaker Aand it was fine everything like you need this show is for families like they don't know tell

Merlinus what the drama i i'm not as up on this as you are what is what is the problem who's mad about

Alexwhat the okay sorry the drama is um first of all they thought that bobby used a word that's like not quite a slur but it's not something that you would call a trans person but it turned out that they the person transgender versus transgendered dirt yeah yes okay i did see that you're right want to be a dirt you don't want to be no you don't want to be you want to be a turd god but but it was just that the subtitles were wrong and and sky was like yeah they also miss like my dog my dog's not named roma yeah yeah well actually it was a cat um but but that's like

been a running um it was like you don't i i like you need 101 episodes for things like i don't know i actually thought it was pretty boring um oh and bobby was the people gave bobby shit because they're like oh they're trying to stifle his queer identity but i'm like i don't i also don't want pride flags all over my house and that's a fight that it's oh god i don't there's just too many rainbows and he's like queer's a pillar it's a pillar people like oh he's they're they're silencing him um and it was just like it was just stupid i don't know i i because of all the hopefully

Merlinall the right reasons i try to stay out of the tone policing part of this because i i really i feel it now when I hear somebody either tone policing or attempting to explain to somebody with a lived experience how this should go. So I want to just bracket that I'm trying really hard not to do that. It's a terrible mistake. I and lots of other people have certainly made in the past. So I'm trying to avoid doing that. But with that said, the one part of this, like I said some on Twitter the other day where it's like, you know, if you can only tolerate people who know at least as much

as you do about a topic right now, you might want to revisit the whole idea of how education works. Which is just to say, just to say that, first of all, I do understand the need to be strident and stick to your guns and call people out for dumb bullshit, especially maybe when they, whether they do or don't realize it's dumb bullshit. But I do, I am very grateful to people who are willing to put up with me long enough to help me understand a distinction that means the world to them. And today does not mean anything to me. Tomorrow, it might mean something to me. But first, and again, I'm not trying to say tone policing here, but I am saying like, thank God for the people over the last three to five years who have taken a minute to go, well, that thing you did was hurtful and you didn't realize that. And I go, oh, shit. No, I did not realize that was hurtful. I'm from Cincinnati and that's how we talk. And that was a dumb thing that I never had examined before. And thanks for being cool about it. I'm going to try really hard not to be a dick about that.

but so yeah i mean on both sides on the one side there's people who have to be listening to other people but it is kind of cool when there's somebody i mean i understand maybe the hill you want to die on is transgender versus transgender but there are see now i'm doing it now i'm doing the tone policing i don't mean to does that make any sense alex no it does and

Alexwell in in the article itself i don't know i had just assumed like that this guy like he's an he's an activist he knew he knew what he was getting into and then in that article he's like well uh I knew that this was going to be for housewives. Like that was like, I don't know. He had nothing negative to say. Like, it's like, actually, you know, we, he, he said like, we need, you can't have like a six hour. Yes. You can't do calculus until you understand arithmetic.

MerlinLet's really get the arithmetic right.

AlexYou can't go into top chef and like, I don't know.

MerlinI don't know how to use a pressure cooker.

AlexYeah.

MaxI think I'm going to make dessert. I have, I feel the same way about people making fun of the cooking guy, like teaching people how to slice an avocado. It's like,

AlexOh my God. I'm so sad.

MaxDo you not? It's like, I get the, I understand the joke that every episode he teaches people like literally like how to make toast. How to take the lid off something. These people like, they literally do not cook at all. They don't own any cooking implements. So it's, it's showing them how to make homemade guacamole, like is a big step. Like that's going from zero to something. Like what do you, do you think they're going to like roast a Cornish game hen for their,

Speaker AThat guy has stuff going against him.

MerlinFirst of all, he is empirically crazy super handsome. Whereas the other guys are good looking and charming and everything, but he is crazy handsome. The other problem is exactly what you're describing, Max, which is this is the one thing where it would seem equally silly if he got very, very ambitious. It would be crazy if he tried to show somebody how to make Coco Van when it's just their whole kitchen's covered in dog hair.

AlexI don't even know what that is.

MaxIt's chicken and with wine. Do you see what these people are eating when they come in? It's, it's some, it's, it's unbelievable.

AlexIt's my, it's my kitchen. It's just a bunch of ramen.

MerlinBut it's also that like each one of them, I mean, the problem is that poor guy's context is the problem because the other guys are so charismatic and transcendent. Like those guys name I can never remember. Karami? Karamo. Karamo. Like that guy, the way that guy's going to be a movie star, mark it down. he is so charismatic and however he's written produced helped whatever's happening with what happens with his character slash person on that show um i mean except for the occasional like here's how to create a facebook page he really gets into like what is niggling at somebody and

is so good at least for the tv show you know bringing that out jonathan obviously he's jonathan he's so good it's just each one of the guys seems to have like a crazy superpower that it's just by context in comparison that the poor cooking guy ends up looking like a like a schmo well you're

Maxit's the only one of those tasks i mean you can't master like high like hygiene and using hair products and all of that in in a week but you can learn enough to like like do what you need to do i don't think the same is true of cooking i mean you just cannot learn the fundamentals of cooking in a week even if it was all you were doing you can't even learn how to slice an onion in a week. No.

Took a, took a, took a challenge. So this week the challenge was mine. A couple weeks ago I was at dinner with my dad and Avengers Infinity War was out and my dad said, can I go see Avengers Infinity War? And I said, or will I understand it? And I said, well, do you like the other Marvel movies and what you know have you seen them and he was like well I have given up on them because they're I think they're really like dark and just and I don't like that everything gets destroyed in every movie and I was like are you sure you're thinking of the Marvel movies or are you thinking of like Batman versus Superman and he was like yeah the Batman

Superman movies so we sat down and I made on the back of the napkin I made a list of all the Marvel movies and I sort of called out the ones that I thought he should watch and the ones that I thought were skippable. And I was like, and they're all, and I shared them on my Plex and I was like, these are all on my Plex. So go ahead and check these out. And if you like them and you get through them, go see the Avengers Infinity War. So I just sent you the picture of, this was drawn on like the back of like a placemat or something. Oh, wow.

Look at that. So the way I did mine was I put down all of the sort of 16 canonical modern Marvel movies and then I put an asterisk next to the ones that I thought were essential to see Infinity War and I put a dash next to the ones that were skippable and then there's some that I didn't put anything next to that I was like you can make your own determination about whether to see this

Merlinor not I found this challenge so interesting and so difficult in the way that I really enjoy I like a challenge where because I'm a liberal arts guy and this is the way my brain works I love trying to figure out what the question is before I go into the answer. Do you know what I mean? The answer is implicated in the question. Yeah, if you don't ask the right question, you'll never get the right answer. In this case, I kept going back to what is the goal, the successful outcome of this? What is this in service of? What is this in service of? Let's talk about something important. I kept coming back

to that in a way that I thought was really interesting. Is that making any sense? Do you know what I mean? I kept saying, okay, so what's the goal? to make him want to see Infinity War, to make him feel like he has to see Infinity War? Or are we trying to build a relationship with the Marvel things to get to where he'll even put up with that shitty movie because he enjoyed these other ones so much? And my personal constraint was to try and do it, if possible, in six or fewer movies. And no matter how I sliced and diced it, I found this very challenging. What did you think, Alex?

AlexI don't know how. Well, so I went into it with sort of Max's dad's thing of like, I just want to see Infinity War and know what's happening and be invested in the characters. Do you want to hear the list of movies that I selected?

MerlinSay that again.

AlexMy, oh, I just saw your list. Oh boy, hello. I went in. Oh my God, Merlin. What? You made a fucking spreadsheet with dates and that.

MerlinI make a spreadsheet for every challenge, guys.

AlexOkay. I think ours are very similar oh yeah well

Merlinwell that's okay so do we can we agree though I mean can I take this over for a second do we like the idea of like in your head what were the kinds of approaches you went through before you arrived at your final this is the solution so

Maxso I for me I was thinking my the main thing I was thinking is information right because I was like they're probably not gonna put too much exposition no I had seen infinity war at this point yeah so i knew for a fact that there wasn't that much exposition you know that for example so here's an example i knew that if you hadn't seen any guardians of the galaxy movies yes that that that in infinity war would be almost not it would be distractingly confusing you would be like why what the fuck is the collector and where are they and why are they

flying on spaceships and like this is not spider-man you know what i mean like it's just like it would be so we it would be so indecipherable and i weirdly um thought the same thing about dr strange i thought if you hadn't seen dr strange at all you know the concept of this guy just doing like magic spells like he has a pretty plays a pretty significant role in the film and i think that he's kind of out of sorts with what you might know about superheroes but realistically like i think if you haven't seen if you don't know a lot about iron man and captain america there you've

seen enough, you probably have absorbed from pop culture what their deal is.

Speaker ARight.

MerlinCan I jump straight to the part that I find the most perplexing in my head? Yes.

MaxI had one question, though, for Alex before we move on. How many did you pick, Alex? Just quantity. Oh, boy.

AlexTwo. Two necessary.

MaxOh, Jesus. I have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.

MerlinI would have more and different if I had any other number besides six. hmm well think about it i mean because now it's quantitatively changing if you get down to one or two it's like well you don't really have to see that many things and in that case i could just pick probably two but what wow that's really good what are your two i i think all you need

Maxis avengers and guardians of the galaxy that's good that is real good that is technically probably

Alextrue technically probably true i also the thing i think um i added to um if you want to be more invested in the universe and the characters it would also be iron man and spider-man homecoming and the only reason which you'd think that that doesn't make sense but spider-man homecoming like establishes even more that the avengers are like a thing in the world that they are like you know they're well known and it's not just oh boy i don't think you need so i don't think you need

Maxit but spider-man homecoming for for the reason merlin said which is like affinity like i think it helps in this movie a lot it's a very heavy infinity war is a very heavy movie and i think that like caring about some of the characters will help pull you through the boring sort of plot heavy exposition josh brolin talking slowly parts and to me like if i didn't care if i didn't know anything about tom holland spider-man before going into it i think i just wouldn't care so much

Alexabout this yeah i think we like he's a similar reason he's vulnerable in a way that the other

Maxsuperheroes or not and I'm like slightly more invested in their scenes because I care about his character.

AlexI think it's interesting I had not, before Infinity War, I had not seen Thor Ragnarok, I had not seen Guardians 2, I had not seen Doctor Strange, still haven't seen Ant-Man. But how about the

Maxpart with, so if you haven't seen Ragnarok you're missing like probably one of the best sort of storylines in infinity war, which is the Thor story. Like he's so broken.

AlexUh, but, but he just said at the beginning, so you have that scene at the, at the beginning.

MaxI know, but you haven't seen it.

AlexI, well now I've seen it, but like I hadn't at the time and that didn't make me think that Thor was any less broken. You know, you know what I mean? Like I, after seeing, um, Thor Ragnarok, I wasn't like, Oh, it's even more tragic than I thought.

MaxMerlin, I cut you off a minute ago, but you had another question. I'm sorry. No, no, no.

MerlinThe one thing I kept trying to do, and unfortunately my memory is not good enough that I remember exactly which thing happened in which thing. But what I finally arrived at was a combination, basically a kind of a negotiation between the two things I wanted to do. Which is to, number one, show you the movies that I think are good from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. and then second to show you the movies that would give you a clue as to whether or not you'd want to watch Infinity War. And that's where I started running into problems.

So my, I'm ready to abandon all of these, but my six picks are the first Iron Man, Captain America the First Avenger, Marvel's The Avengers, Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy.

MaxWait, wait, wait, wait, slow down, slow down. Wait, go, go, wait, sorry, start over.

MerlinLook in the text, you can see it in there. Oh, I see. Number one, Iron Man.

Maxnumber two are we gonna go through these and talk about them or what well here's here's the part

Merlinthat's driving me fucking crazy is like okay i very much i didn't love ultron when it came out and now i actively do do not like it and i think it is a bad and dumb movie and what's funny is it's not good it's probably the worst and it comes it comes after guardians which is a balls out

Maxhit classic in my mind but not but it was not but here's the thing to keep in mind it was it it it chronologically was released after guardians, but it was not made after guardians.

MerlinWell, I guess I just mean that, do you know what I'm saying? So I just mean the guardians kicks off an era where I started feeling very strongly one way or another about the movies. The ones I didn't like, I didn't love guardians of the galaxy too. Um, but, but look at that run. I mean, you got Ant-Man, you got Dr. Strange, you got Spider-Man homecoming, Ragnarok and black Panther. And the part that drove me fucking bananas and putting this together, I'm ready to throw this out but a lot of the stuff from the everything since Civil War I think there's not that much in those movies you have to see to see Infinity War the one that kills me of course is Black Panther which I think is arguably one of the great movies they have ever made it's an inarguably great movie to me I don't think it's critical to see Black Panther for Infinity War unfortunately they set up Wakanda just enough in Infinity War that you don't need to see Black Panther

MaxI mean, you don't have to agree, but did that make sense? Oh, absolutely. So on my list, what I took into account was like, I basically, so I think that Guardians of the Galaxy was a turning point for Marvel Studios that helped them figure out what they were about and what they were doing like spiritually.

AlexIt's the first time they let a director direct.

MaxYes, correct. It was like the first like very opinionated like director led film. It was really colorful and funny and goofy.

MerlinAnd the response seemed overwhelming. Like people were, I was pumping, at least for me, I can't speak for the world, but I was pumping my fucking fist i was like this is so why i love movies this is why i love movies what is happening right now with him walking around with the walkman and like kicking the little animal

Maxthis is why i love movies it was it was so joyful and so i think what you can see is marvel i believe marvel got into a little bit of a rut so i think the avengers was like a colossal like goliath hit and then they took them they were taking themselves very seriously yeah and they did iron man 3 which which is a very dark film. Thor, the dark world, literally as dark in the title.

Speaker ASerious, you know,

Maxsort of serious epic film. Winter Soldier was pretty grown up. Winter Soldier, which I don't think is a good film. Or I think it's an, I think it's actually, I think it's a good action movie, but it's a completely inessential and boring Marvel movie. Good inspiration for fan fiction. And then they were, and then they also, you know that before Guardians of the Galaxy came out, they were already producing Avengers Age of Ultron. So that was probably, that was probably already completely filmed.

MerlinThat's where we meet, that's where, Is that where we meet? Not Jarvis, but that's where we meet Vision.

AlexBut for like 15 minutes.

MaxAnd Scarlet Witch. Yeah. Yeah, you don't need it. So I think after Avengers Age of Ultron and Guardians of the Galaxy came out, I think Marvel looked at those two movies side by side and said, one of these paths is the way forward for the studio. And Guardians was just a way more fun and good movie. And I think they clearly went in that direction because like the stuff that they made after that dr strange spider-man homecoming thor ragnarok there's like literally oh black panther like literally like colorful like weird funny surprising heavily art directed about a

world correct yeah they're like milieu films as much as anything and also they are they're cheaper

Alexlike that i mean at the end of the day like you don't have the egos involved you don't have to get all of these guys together right it's which it's cynical to think about that it's one thing

Merlinit's one thing to have Robert Downey Jr. jet in for two days of shooting and another thing to have him in a soundstage in sweatpants in Atlanta for six months.

AlexHe couldn't change out of those sweatpants. Like, come on. Come on. Dress it up a little bit.

MaxElevate the look. All right. Well, let's, I think, why don't we go through each of these films and talk about if we put them on and why or why not?

Speaker AOh, it's so, this show's going to be so cool. It's calculus though

Maxbecause like every change I make changes all the things. All right. Very, very, very spoilers. So Iron Man, clearly yes to me It establishes the whole thing that you need to know about what we're doing here.

MerlinIt's nearly impossible that they pulled that movie off and that it still to this day stands as, to me, inarguably one of the best movies in the MCU. Full stop. And that they did that with this guy who had all of these problems. Everybody said, you're never going to get this movie made. And it's still an utter joy to watch and a wonderful piece of filmmaking.

MaxI think the third act is really boring, but it sets up what Marvel, what's going on. It just gets you into the, you want to see more after that movie. It leaves you wanting more.

AlexNo, because all of his shit is showed in The Avengers.

MerlinBut you're saying not necessary?

AlexCorrect.

MerlinOh, in microcosm, you see his journey.

MaxI sort of agree with that.

MerlinThat's a good point. I mean, there's lots of Iron Man and all the things, and he doesn't change that much. He just gets different suits.

MaxMerlin, I'm very excited to see that you and I both put Captain America, the first Avenger, as one of our picks. I don't understand why more people don't adore that movie.

Speaker AI love it.

MerlinThe second act sags a little bit when they're not sure what to do with Steve. I think that is a fantastic movie from so many points of view.

MaxIt's one of the best movies they've ever made. The sequence where... With the flag, the flagpole. Where he's punching Hitler. Oh, right. Where he's doing the Victory Bonds show. I think that's probably the best thing that Marvel's ever put on film. It's an amazing sequence.

MerlinI don't think you need it, but I love it. don't but i put it in because uh it's difficult now this is very personal but for me it would be hard for me to like captain america as as a character as much as i do without that movie and if you don't like captain america captain america is like what the anakin skywalker of this like he's he is he and iron man are really the linchpins of this series i think right if you don't like those or if you don't aren't interested in their personalities and why they're the way they are these movies are even more tedious than they need to be the other thing i was thinking

Maxabout i forgot about this but the other thing i was thinking about is like i know they recognize the trick that they're doing with these stupid mcguffin gems or whatever and but i do think that it it does it it's if you've seen a few of them in play it does help you understand a little bit of what's going on in infinity war that's true would you like if if you had never seen those gems before missed all those movies you'd be like well who gives a shit suddenly there's these gems like you know i mean like at least it establishes that they're like a thing that everyone wants

Alexyeah at least you have to know what the macguffin is was that in captain were there gems yeah yeah the tesseract the tesseract starts there oh yeah yeah you're right of the film you're right so

Maxthen i then let's see then we had the same picks here so then we both skipped to the avengers

Alexduh i don't know yeah i don't know i mean it's it's it's kind of like i can't believe how much

Merlini've come around quietly to andy and notko's point of view at the time which is a very controversial point of view which is like this is not really a movie it's it's it's like almost like a trade show like there's just so much going on it's not and it is what it is and now but see everybody always comes back and says well yeah yeah that's what it is it's the big thing and it's but like it's it hasn't aged that that super well i still enjoy it but it really does colors wow it's

Alexa bunch of cgi green screen running around mostly i think if they had made a better uh i think the destruction of joss whedon in that in everything that went wrong in that film like you said i so So with the first Avengers, they had already done Iron Man 3 and Thor. So I think that because the Avengers, while it made a shit ton of money, no one was happy making it. And that's when they started Guardians. And that's when they did like the second age or whatever we're calling it.

Yeah.

MaxSo we then let's see. We skip. We should speed this up a little bit. I forgot. We skip Thor. We skip Iron Man 3. And I skipped Iron Man 2.

MerlinFor the record, on mine, you'll see which ones are important and which ones I give the stars to. The fact is, I loved the first Thor movie. I may be alone in that. I think that's a very fun movie. A lot of these are really fun movies as movies. You know what I mean? Yeah. But they're not critical. So you gave Winter Soldier, not high marks.

MaxI did not. I said skip Winter Soldier. I actually think it's like one of the... So I feel the same way you do about Thor. I think it's a really good film. Like, it's a good spy film. But you don't need to know anything about what happens in that film. It's of no consequence. You're probably right.

It's fun, and I think it also develops the Black Widow character a little bit, and you see the fall of S.H.I.E.L.D. and all of that, but I don't know. It's not that good of a movie. Then Guardians is absolutely essential. I agree with Alex that if you missed that, you'd be so upset during Infinity War.

MerlinThat is the Marvel universe is, I mean, moving in the direction of definitely Guardians and to some extent Doctor Strange. I think that is, I don't know if it's just because they know that's more interesting to look at than CGI fights.

AlexI also think James Gunn is easier to work with. Interesting. I'm focusing on the boring, boring backstory stuff. But yeah, I really love this movie for its exposition and just as, it's a good film.

MaxWell, things that people love, I think I've talked about my theory on this on the podcast, but things that people love that rise to the level of like pop culture, you know, status, the same as the Marvel Universe, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, they combine what's like nostalgic and comfortable for people with something novel that they haven't seen before. So you're lured in by something that you already want, and then they give you something you didn't know you want, and that's magic. When you give people that, they will be with you for the rest of their lives. so to me the formula that you're talking about Alex if you take something extremely familiar

which is the Joseph Campbell's hero's journey with a superhero that we've all seen that movie 10 million times we could all close our eyes and tell you the beats and what happens going into the you know the stakes are raised going into the third act and you know whatever and he has to go into the underworld and emerge learning something about himself like it's like we could all say that with our eyes closed but if you do it with a new director like a very editorial director who has something new to say about the the making that film it's thrilling like i would watch i would watch thor ragnarok movies a billion times even though i know the

beats the beats of that movie we could all say with our eyes closed like on autopilot that it's this that it's this great opinionated director like putting this candy on screen for us is very fun uh all right so i said skip ultron uh i said skip ant-man or i said i said watch ant-man i I was neutral on Ant-Man. I was like, you don't need to see this. I didn't rate that high enough.

MerlinI liked a lot about it. You know what it is? I just saw the new one. My daughter and I saw it last week. Yep. It's like, I mean, I feel like such a karma suck, but I love the cast. Love the cast. Love the performances. The story's so stupid. All the hand-wavy science stuff is just to get to where there's a three-digit number that tells you where Michelle Pfeiffer is. What? It's just all so unnecessary in the big spinny dungeon dice. But the performances are fantastic

MaxTo a person, they were all great I thought that it was what Marvel needed Which was like a small movie Relatively The first Ant-Man No, the new one

Speaker AThey just needed a smaller film

MerlinWhere the fate of the world Wasn't at stake And there's giant ants running around, it's fun Alright

MaxI said do watch Doctor Strange You had skipped Doctor Strange Yeah, on the bubble on the bubble. You're probably right. I forget what a big part he had in Infinity War. Now, I also said you could skip Civil War, but I don't think that that was a good film. But it turns out that maybe it's pretty important to the whole MCU. What's important? Well, you have to know about the Sokovia Accords and stuff like that.

MerlinAnd the raising, kind of the raising of the stakes of this, of what's happening in the story, but also just the idea that you're not just dealing with the Chitauri anymore. You're dealing with a more 70s film problem. like you've got a system that you're fighting against now like overtly yeah uh i said i said

Maxskip guardians volume two sadly uh skip um you said yes homecoming i said yes homecoming absolutely i think that's one of those you know how you said there's the secondary project of like the person has to like the marvel movies to really get into this yeah or at least understand why they're how they i mean man boy like if you don't see homecoming i think that's one of the best movies they've ever done. It's one of my favorite movies of the last few years. I just loved it. I did too. It was great. I said definitely see Thor Ragnarok. I love Thor Ragnarok.

MerlinWhat a fucking great movie. And I said yes Black Panther but that's why I have eight

Maxand you have six. Yeah. Right there

Alexthat's why. I've just changed my approach. There's three films but in a certain order. First you need to watch Spider-Man Homecoming then Avengers then Guardians of the Galaxy because if you don't like Spider-Man Homecoming you're not going to

Maxcare about anything else just trying to think could you know because you have to have seen

Alexavengers to understand spiderman homecoming you know no no you know what you know who iron man is you know who the avengers are like they they explain what the like he explains like oh the avengers they have saved new york city so many times and like all that and they do do enough of

Maxi think that i've prepared like a like a flight of wine tastings for for to to to titillate your palate and and and it's a progression you know you progress up the swiss alps as you as you experience a bouquet of flavors and you're doing like jello shots over here alex you're like you're

Speaker Alike i can get you drunk the quickest Alice got her a funnel Welcome to the after show

MaxIt's the after show We gotta dial in Anita

87. Snaccidental TERF Podcast

Show notes

Transcript

87. Snaccidental TERF Podcast

Show notes

Transcript

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