433. I am the mucus man.
2025Show notes
Transcript
Tap a timestamp or any sentence to play from there · machine transcribed (mlx:mlx-community/whisper-large-v3-turbo), expect mistakesAlexHello. Hello. How are you? I'm fantastic, Merlin Mann. How are you? I'm great. Thank you for asking. I feel great. I like this voice. Are we doing new voices? I don't think I have a voice that can compete with that. Can I get lower? No. Yeah. Oh. What do you think? You like this? You enjoying it so far? I do. I think it's interesting.
MerlinLike an FM radio DJ? Wonderful. Barry White. Love Unlimited Orchestra.
AlexNope. You lost it. Nope. Nope.
MerlinWhat do you prefer? What was wrong with that? What was wrong with Barry White? You hate black people? Is it fat people?
AlexWhy didn't I instinctively just say no?
MerlinJesus Christ. Black men with relaxed hair. People who've been bitten by a rattlesnake on the David Letterman show. Why do you hate Barry White?
AlexThat's a thing that happened?
MerlinYou're really losing track of how awesome my voice is
AlexI
MerlinYou just swing you come in you swing Are you asking more about my voice
AlexIt's back it's back
MerlinWhat is
AlexYour voice I mean I
MerlinNo my voice is I might be dying
AlexOh well
MerlinHere's the thing like you know sometimes I used to feel like This is not the show don't worry I mean it's not the whole show But um I used to feel like you try to figure things out in life. And a lot of times it's magical thinking or cargo culting or whatever. And it used to seem to me when I used to get sick all the time in Florida that the quicker the feeling sick came on, sometimes the quicker it went away. But the corollary felt very true,
which is if it takes a very long time for you to get sick, then you're going to be sick for a long time. Do you understand? Oh, yes. So as of like Saturday, I texted, this is, as we recorded this, Hey everybody, happy New Year. Happy birthday, John Syracuse. It's New Year's Eve 2025. Pew, pew, pew. Which is a Wednesday. But four or five days ago, I texted my family. Because, you know, everybody's worried about getting sick. There's a lot of sick out there right now. And I just want to clarify, just, I mean, for the sake of this, let's keep the bit real.
Which is my family goes everywhere and I go nowhere. which is not true but it's close enough like I don't have exposure to other people anyway anywhere near the way my family does I mean even if they didn't have lives they still go to like retail stores more than I do a hard pass right must be nice so I texted them I was like just saying no like I'm bringing up some I got some I know how my mucus should taste title and what I've been
bringing up is not the mucus of a healthy man that's on like saturday we were on a whole different season of blue lights then and i and and as of that and then on sunday sunday evening i was like you know oh no i'm like i'm like the guy in the cart in holy grail and like i'm feeling better i was like i i may not actually be getting really sick you know because you know you look you like to warn people it's not so much to like oh feel bad for me but it's partly like a disclosure thing Like, you know, don't go in there kind of thing.
AlexYeah. I'm the mucus man now. I'm the mucus man now. Yeah.
MerlinYou know, so, and you know, and when I'm sick or they're sick, there is a chance there will be a slight uptick in how much more time I spend at the office. So I don't make them sick. They don't make me sick or whatever. But anyways, and that doesn't really matter. Oh, let's see. Right now, I'm very confused.
And I'm not feeling very sharp. I have this cough that brings up mucus a little bit of a cough a little bit, but I could bring it up anytime Um, yes, please I had I had huge diarrhea last night Oh, absolute absolute pain job And um, and I feel a little bit like i'm gonna vomit all the time now No, i'm not worried about any of this You know one of the most there's so many difficult things to explain to other people By which I mean my wife But it's been difficult to explain my wife how like this study I've made about sleep over the years has gotten me somewhere very good
But it took 10 years or more right that like I can I can I can honestly say partly because of the kind of life or job or whatever that I have but you know, I think everybody can do this like I didn't sleep very well last night, but i'm not mad about it. Do you know what I mean? Because like where I come from if you mentioned you didn't sleep last night. It's implied that you're mad about it aren't don't you think kind of like oh man i slept like shit last night nobody goes like you know well it's kind of like saying like i missed the first five minutes of a tv show it's
like you know you'll still be fine you know it's okay this is another cultural thing because
Alexmost of the people in my life not having enough sleep is the default so it's like saying i'm sick like don't feel bad don't feel bad about me okay but like i don't think that i don't think that
MerlinI don't think that contravenes. In fact, one could say that that really underscores the larger point I'm trying to make, which is that people have a really fucked up, basic, and not very agentic approach to sleep.
Right? Like what you're describing, it sounds like to me, it's like everybody I know, which is like, well, I guess I'll just be a sad tomato forever because I'm a bad sleeper and I can't nap and I'm always sad. But anyways, I have developed a relationship where it's like I'm actually not mad about it because I and like the thing is how do you describe this somebody to get good at something to like make a habit of something this is what expertise is expertise is having failed at something so many times that you
know the kinds of things you tend to want to avoid having happen but also to understand like what's survivable and how to manage and mitigate risk right that's kind of that's part of expertise Is you don't just like, you know jump off a building the first time, you know your punch card didn't work or whatever but um, I must be nice. Yeah
But I have actually gotten to that I feel good about that because that means that like That practice means that over and over I have been confronted with the part of my brain that demands everything stop and I'd be nothing but sad bad about how I, how I'm not falling asleep, how I didn't stay asleep, how something woke me up, you know, like very aggressively, assertively, transitively, like chose to woke me, wake me up like stupid babies or like whatever. Right. All that kind of stuff. And like, and like, you can't
touch me because it, but it took 10 or 15 years where I'm now I'm like, well, I woke up, I will go. I've been, I've been to sleep in the past. I will go to sleep again in the future. And there are numerous ways to mitigate the downside of this. One of which is just, you'll be fine. Another one is, hey, maybe you'll get a nap. Another one is, oh man, you really need to get a nap. Or another one is, you know what, skip the nap and go to bed. Whatever, like you're a fucking adult. Like figure it out. Like if you can't fix that, there's a chance that trying harder,
not harder, trying smarter, trying smarter would help. And so that, and I'm kind of like that with this time. I think I'm kind of like that with being sick. This is probably going to kill me, Alex.
I ate a pound and a half of Brussels sprouts last night.
AlexWell, so then is it going to be the mucus or the diarrhea or like a combination? Just all the fluids? Well, that's crazy.
MerlinThat's like you saying you just walked out of a department store and somebody threw a knife in your eye. Another person shot you in the neck and then somebody else cut your legs off below the knees. And you're like, well, which one's bad? And you're like, well, you know, I just wanted to shop.
AlexBut what's going to be in the headline? Like, it's not going to be a dog.
MerlinI've got to predict my future now. Is that what I'm doing? I've got to write. I've got to write. What are we going to talk about? Legacy? Is he a great man?
AlexHave you ever considered writing your own obituary in advance? No.
MerlinGod, no.
AlexOh. Hmm.
MerlinNo. No, we're all just blips, Alex. We're just blips. Yeah, but you could be a great blip for someone to. I could be writing these down. That was really good. You're not writing these down. I'm very ill. I'm really counting on you to pick up the slack for me. Truth is, I feel fine. Truth is, I feel fine. It's probably it's a bit. But on the other hand, that was probably a way to say, which I should have said before we started recording, is there may be times where I just go, wait a minute, because I want to throw up a little bit.
AlexOh, that's wonderful. There were times last week where I threw up and you didn't notice. I was really proud of that. I'm sorry, two weeks ago.
MerlinThere were times last week where you threw up and maybe I didn't say.
AlexThat's.
Merlinwhich is not true, but I don't think you think about things like that enough.
AlexUh, about whether or not people know. Oh,
MerlinI think you think about the thing. I think about the thing that you think is secret and shameful in the world. And instead of thinking about what other people actually notice about you,
AlexI don't know if this is, Oh, is this a, uh,
Merlinwhy does everything have to be a thing? I can't, can't it just be what they are when we're talking? Does it need to have a box or do you, Is it you need a box for your box? What is it? What would help?
AlexNo, no, no. It's just a blip. No, no, no. It's just a blip.
MerlinBlip. Just a blip. You're a blip. You're a blip. You do that. Hey, Alex, you ever think about writing your own obituary? Which I'm sure will turn out with a very amusing answer that will put me in a good mood.
You ever think about writing your own obituary, Alex?
AlexSometimes.
MerlinReally?
AlexNot everything is a bit.
MerlinWhen things are going well or when things are going poorly?
AlexOh, no. No, not in a dark way. way just no in a light way more of a well it's taking it i think about it as just easing someone else's burden a little bit because you'll be dead you'll know christmas time you'll be dead the exact well exactly i won't have someone but it's sort of like is it sort of like hey here's the
Merlinthing is it maybe sort of like me and sleep we're like in thinking about how you don't want to inconvenience people when you revert to the dead form that most of us will be in for all eternity when you're thinking about that and not wanting to inconvenience people you like, right? Isn't that kind of making you think a little different about how you live? You know, it's like that. What's his name?
Toby McCowboy. That song, Live Like You're Dying. You know, you got to live like you're dying. Bob Dylan says he who's not busy born is busy dying. bell and sebastian said hey she got a dose dose of thrush from licking railings uh i listen to music do you ever listen to bell and sebastian i think you'd hate them
Alexno i don't i uh it's sad bastard music it is i think they're this is a pretentious thing to say
Merlinthey're more fun live i think it's just so anytime you want to listen to bell and sebastian you just
Alexyou go find where they're playing that minute uh in in chicago same with boni ver who's yeah
Merlinwhen you want when you want to listen to to uh fox in the snow right now you just go see boni
Alexver no it's just not as if you're feeling sinister i feel like a weird a weirder sadder person if I'm just listening to Bon Iver or Bright Eyes or any of that
Merlinalone. I know two things about Bon Iver. I know that Bon Iver used to be, I think, actually married to a person whose music I enjoy. And I know that Bon Iver goes Is that him or is that Rick Ross? That's Bon Iver, right? Bonnie Prince, Billy Aver. Isn't that him? He's credited You know, by the way, also don't make this sad Just touch and go. Keep walking. Did you know Nicki Minaj is a nut now?
Yes, I've been quote. I've been quoting that song. I mean, you know Occasionally I'll rap a little bit of that that her her her peerless two verses that she does On on that song, right? You know I don't please Reubeny automobile gangster with a bad bitch to come from Sri Lanka
Speaker AFirst things first, I'll eat your brain And then I start dropping gold teeth
AlexThis
MerlinDid you know she's a nut now?
AlexYes
MerlinDid you know she appeared at a Turning Point USA thing?
AlexYes
MerlinOkay, good Don't say anything more Hey Okay That was a lot of fun You want to really start the show now? Should we start completely over? Should we start completely over?
Alexhey this is do by friday a weekly challenge podcast with alex cox and merlin man this week's challenge share your christmas and if we keep that then um i won't have to
Merlinrecord and you know the reason you know for a long time i did the robot voice thank you so much oh my god i'm derailing you at least i'm not throwing up it's feather in my cap um used to be time was you would do the the intro thing when i started doing my little light editing to it uh i started doing the intro thing and then i think but then you i thought it would be funny to do the ai voices to do the intro because i like the artfulness of trying to pick which voice would be best for what
what is being said without being on the nose. But honestly, I quickly realized it's lame and it's not the best way to step into the warmth of this show with the coldness of fake Santa Claus or whatever.
And so I started, I started doing the thing again, but then what happens is I forget to record it before slash. I don't really know exactly what we're going to end up, what it ends up being. I mean, it's fool's errand to try and record it before because you don't know what's going to happen, right? It's like, you know, hmm. It's like a, huh, huh, huh. You could start by writing the table of contents for a book, but it would probably be better to write the book and then the table of contents. And that describes a lot about which podcasts I like and which I like less, I think.
AlexOh, that's very good.
MerlinI like the ones that don't have a table of contents at all. I like the one where you have to have read every word in order to get to this word. like a reverse LLM. And I, and so, and so, what was my point? What was I talking about?
AlexWait, you mentioned
Merlinthe robot voice.
AlexOh yeah, so I started doing it,
Merlinbut I forget to do it. I forget to do it and I got to get it out. I've already turned all my fans back on. We're on break. I'm editing. You're doing notes. We're actually doing what in our community we call working. And I don't want to turn off all my fans again to go and do that a couple, three lines. But I think it's worth it. Now you've done it for me. I've ruined the show, Alex. This is the worst episode that's ever happened, and I'm sorry.
AlexOh, maybe the worst episode you've ever done, but I'm right here. You think you're better than me. This week, I mean, I'm not in a fluke state anymore. I don't have any more mucus.
MerlinPlease say that again.
AlexFluke state. I guess you were, wow, you don't listen to my other shows, clearly. But if you remember, two weeks ago, I...
MerlinI thought you misspoke, but you're doing a bit.
AlexNo
MerlinIt's a cross between a fugue state and the flu Well in that case fuck it never mind This is the worst show That's funny but if it's written it's not as funny as if you just kind of came up with it
AlexI'm guessing you did it with Kathy That sounds like a Kathy joke Oh That sounded derogatory I don't care I'm probably going to die
MerlinNo I mean I can't control what people interpret About what I didn't say So you know there's only so many hours in the day And I made my peace with that too Suck a bag of dicks Happy New Year everybody How was your Christmas How was my Christmas It is illegal for you to ask me that
AlexAlright that's fine
MerlinOh no that's a quote from I think you should leave That's from remember the court case Where the guy has the hat He tries to roll the hat down his arm like Fred Astaire Then the back flap got trapped in Rick's wheelchair Yes Remember that when he says that Brian how much did you pay for that hat
Alexoh no no no no no more no more no more i figured out why i can't remember most of i think you should leave bits it's because they are both so funny and so upsetting that i just curl inside myself i've never experienced secondhand embarrassment the way like people
Merlinbe like oh gosh i can't watch like oh my god the nathan nathan nathan fielder nathan fielder so i watch it and i'm like yeah okay yeah go for it nathan fielder i'd be happy to be in this are you in a mood did you have drugs today because i just need to know what i'm up against today i didn't no i did not i did well i'm like i'm like a very very ill little boy and like i can pull out all the reserves or it's like that wonderful graham norton anecdote about when wolverine um uh hugh jackman was appearing in beauty and the beast and he'd been drinking a
lot of water and he had to pick up bell and sing a high note and he fully urinated himself on stage he had an f sharp
Alexwait wait true story yeah we're already doing what i asked two weeks ago which is uh normalizing talking about shitting yourself well and oh alex alex alex god damn it alex i have not said this
Merlinto you because i don't really understand how you do texts anymore it's weird but like you've got a thing going on i'll figure it out eventually there's something going on weekends i'll figure
Alexit out eventually but here's the i don't want to hear another word all right what do we do with the whore mouth shut it shut it for new years shutting some old testament levels of shutting uh was i saying i uh shitting uh normalizing i wanted to say because i think i almost posted
Merlinthis yesterday but then i realized nothing matters um i had you know the feed on do you just watch the feed you ever just turn on the graham norton feed just leave it on i had the graham norton best of funniest moments from graham norton which i just leave on like you could just have it on like the way i used to listen to npr i realized yesterday i think i've i think i've seen every I haven't seen every episode by long. I've only ever seen like two or three full episodes ever, but I've seen hundreds of hours of compilations. I mean, I know the Alan Carr, Celine Dion story backwards and forwards by heart.
Here I go again, dropping Adele's name. He and Adele have a beautiful relationship. How you doing boys? Which one do you propose the other? I don't know, Celine Dion.
She has the fist pump.
AlexIt should be fairly obvious why I cannot leave any sort of compilation feed on because I will dig. There will be so many people on Graham Norton where I'm like, oh, that's so interesting. What's that? Oh, oh.
MerlinI've heard a lot about somebody called Nicole Scherzinger. I thought, I think that's her name. I thought she was like lame because she was in that, that pussy, pussy doll singer band, but she's actually a really good singer and she's very entertaining and has shiny legs. um the um but the thing is i just leave that on alex i just wanted to say ever since you incepted me so i'll bring this back around so our listeners know what i'm talking about um you said something a few weeks ago that led to you so you had said you know english people are
so much more comfortable talking about let's just say it shitting your shitting your pants pissing yourself farting like there's so many things where like at least on the graham norton show it's totally okay for every it's ideal greg greg davis probably his most famous story involves taking a shit um in his pants his mother's pants technically um and uh right or oh my god miriam margulise you could watch two hours of nothing but mark miriam margulise talking
Alexabout period shit farts pissing um but it's not in a donna noble donna noble did you see her
Merlindonna noble had a good one too oh absolutely oh she's so funny and then you said what did you say what was your what was your bold brave resolution for america in 2026 what do we need to do over
Alexhere just a normalize talking about shitting your pants yeah we need to normalize talking about
Merlinshitting your pants because you know what you know what's craziest about that i had to as somebody who did shit their pants because of a chronic health condition, like literally, um, you know what I learned that was the most difficult thing in the world is, uh, you survive it. It's not fun, but you survive it. And it's actually not, it's not as bad as it seems. You can totally survive this. And that begins, let it begin with me. I think it's what you said. You said, let's normalize being able to talk. I mean, we don't probably want to be gross about it. Should we be gross about it? Should it get gross?
AlexThe Brits? I don't think we're, what is it? English people are so okay talking about shitting their pants.
MerlinI love, oh, Rob Beckett. Rob Beckett has three different anecdotes about shitting his pants.
AlexI don't know who that is.
MerlinHe's the guy with the huge teeth who won Taskmaster Season 3. Rob Beckett, he's on Last One Laughing. You need to start learning things, Alex, not just knowing things. You need to learn things. Rob Beckett, blonde hair, big teeth. Last One Laughing. He's, you know, he's on Taskmaster.
AlexI don't understand what you do with your day.
Merlinanyhow he shat his he shat his pants his little pantalones he shat his pants on his honeymoon he had to buy different underwear at the airport see when's the last time you heard an american tell a story like that 2018 i didn't want to actually answer it was a hypothetically it was kind of like a rhetorical question oh that you remember that you remember yeah yeah who was it alex uh it well i don't know i mean it's your story you know dates i mean i i got you i just
answer chillins chillins gather around the fire you know how uncle day alex has stories about
Alexpants shitting from seven years ago no it was an anecdote on a podcast and uh on this podcast uh adam friedland a mid-30s man shit his pants right before they started recording a podcast and his two co-hosts were both uh metaphorically losing their shit laughing at him but also right then it's like right before he has a similar health condition do you think he had a
squirt or do you think he made a made a duke oh it was a whole thing because along with laughing and making fun of him um they they were helping him get in the like bathtub and they get things to shower and like this is the comment podcast his friends recorded and it's yeah well and he knew he had his it's and it was just yeah incredibly wholesome it's fun like oh yeah I'm not sure about the bathing your be shouted friend
MerlinI'm not sure I love that
AlexNo no no Like handing him stuff
MerlinHanding him what Alex What are you talking about
AlexHanding him a clean towel
MerlinHow did they get the microphones in the bathroom
AlexLong XLR cables Isn't that a health and safety issue Well that's why he needed help Oh like a crew
MerlinYour crew they call him
AlexYes yes
MerlinLike on a garage is that oh that is a show is that i don't know what are things i don't know i don't what is that
Alexa thing i don't know that things i don't know what gay man you're trying to make what voices
Merlinis that be a dell guy sure alex sure every time every time you hear a gay guy it's me impersonating Alan Carr. Super wholesome allyship.
AlexMight be.
MerlinThey used to hang out together. They'd watch TV together on Saturday nights. Did you know that? Have you ever seen an interview with Adele? And then, did you see when Adele was on Alan Carr's program? It's pretty funny.
AlexI didn't even know Alan Carr had a program.
MerlinHe used to have a show called, I think it's called Alan Carr Chatty Man. And if you like him, you know, it's pretty great. uh wait yeah yeah yeah yeah you know because also that's a big taboo to break down because in my experience uh people just are not into the shitting and having shit in pants in general like there's other people's anything oh my god somebody else on graham norton had an anecdote never mind i think it's enough pants shitting specific talk now let's talk about the rights
Alexbecause you know they have names somebody you know is a pants shitter well okay they have names
MerlinFor just 65 cents a day. And then we'll send you this shit cover blanket to remind you that you're supporting a pants shitter.
AlexNo, no.
MerlinSee, you're doing a bit.
AlexAnd it's not about the shit. It is about the solidarity.
MerlinI don't want to take the air out of this important issue that we're doing. But good job turning it into something that feels more like something you'd put into a file folder and forget. Go ahead. What? What? 2018. James Nicholson is in the bathroom recording his friend be shatting himself. Oh my gosh.
AlexI mentioned an anecdote about some friends I heard helping one another. And you mentioned a more famous man.
MerlinNo, no, do a funny thing. Do a funny thing. Do a funny thing.
AlexOh, I'm a famous man who's friends with Adele. That was good. You did a funny thing. Ha, ha, ha. Alan Carr.
MerlinIs that his name?
AlexIs that his name?
MerlinWell, it's been a couple months. And I have the voice. So you fucked up. And guess what you get now? You get the three.
AlexA shut whore mouth?
MerlinNo, no, no. You get the three minutes.
AlexOh, okay. All right.
MerlinSet a three minute act normal timer.
AlexYou can't name it. Naming it is not normal.
MerlinWhat else is going on with you, Alexia? What have you been up to? How's your work?
Alexi found i deserve this
Merlini deserve it you know in basketball they call it running down the clock
Alexyeah how are those binders doing oh you lost it merlin i i don't know if it's a mucus but you've lost it this isn't normal no this isn't normal you can normally be normal this is not
Merlinnot all npr i'm gonna pause i'm gonna pause i'm gonna pause this because this is not i want the time back reclaiming my time um fuck you because you you're like you think this is like a generic npr normal person it's not uh because guess what there's more than one npr station in america i'm from a different region that has a different format okay do you want straight do you want straight full-on like uh public public college npr classical station you want that guy or do you
want to can we go with all things considered can we go with that guy is that all right sure yes oh i should start your clock again alex cox has made a practice of normalizing the discussion of shit in pants they have worked organizing cables and almost finishing a documentary film. Alex Cox.
Um, so that would be one. See, now here's the funny thing. I was, I was living in Florida and we had a, we had a classical station and I'm going to stop the clock. We had a classical station and a, um, news station, right? So one that just plays Claire de Lune and the other one plays All Things Considered, right?
And everybody was really straight-laced on air. And then when I came to San Francisco, they were like more relaxed and it was weird. And they had personalities. There was this guy named Jerry. God, when Jerry retired, I was like so aware of how much the impact he'd had on me in like five years. But like, you know, you don't talk about like the only now. So you ever listen to public radio?
AlexNot really.
MerlinNo. oh the way it works is like like the podcasty version but nah oh okay wow okay yeah so it doesn't matter then but like you know you begin the day with a friendly voice a companion unobtrusive you know that's uh the magic music makes your morning move i'm just glad to know there's options
Alexdid it i'm kind of wondering if this is an actual phenomenon now between npr stations is it a coast thing or is it just a guy thing yeah well um i'll want to like is the genre by region or is it just a type of guy no no that's not even a sentence that makes sense
Merlinthe genre is not by region i don't know what that means but uh no no it's just different places different and too much skin too super boring it would be interesting to me it'd be interesting to me because it would allow me to once again refer to um something i heard a historian say about the nuremberg trials uh recently and uh it's one of those one of those like uh it's like such an obvious thing once you hear it and like i'm gonna say it now and a lot of you're gonna go like okay yeah that's what the thing is he's basically saying one problem with really
understanding what happened in uh in europe in the 30s and 40s too and consequently yeah the holocaust too right but it was there's more to it than just that we didn't get to the holocaust in a weekend right like depending on when you want to start your how long of a yardstick you've got you gotta go i'd go a lot further back i'd go back to before there was a country called germany personally uh in the 1800s and i would um i would at least start at 1925 or so here's what i wouldn't do i wouldn't start at 1947 and say these are the six worst things that happened causing everything
that happened before 1945 to look like it wasn't a big deal. And in fact, here's the point of that. To understand any history, whether it's Europe or our own, it's really useful to go in the right order, to not start by looking at how it ended up and then kind of retrofitting the evidence. It makes the phrase I used with Roderick the other day, it's a lot, certainly, I don't know if this is making sense to you, but I think this appeals to your way of thinking. I think it's a lot more poignant. If you allow yourself to look at your own life or the history of a thing in the order
it happened, rather than the order you learned it in or the order you know it in, or again, this sounds so obvious, this might be really subtle, but like, if I ask you about World War Two and your first thing thinking about like, what do we take away from World War Two? Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, we got to those horrible images in those films. And that was really horrible. but I'm gonna repeat myself um but to say wow you know if you think about it things were so bad at um at Auschwitz-Birkenau you know um Birkenbelson that was so bad so things got we all know now
what happened there so if you think about it making people wear patches on their shirt isn't really such a big deal because if all you know is the worst possible thing that you can imagine times 10 compared to a slight change in uh and it's like basically like like people who work in an office have to have a badge there's be follow what i'm saying but if you go come from the other way you come from the other way and this is why movie like shannon's list is so valuable because
like all those people all those i don't want to bring it down but you know all those people they're all people and you know a lot of them were really really at least at the beginning the ones who couldn't get out in 33, 34, 35, a lot of people left, right? But there were people, again, Schindler's List, the first act of Schindler's List, all those people who stayed there, a lot of them were pretty wealthy Jewish people, you know? They're like fancy society ladies, you know what I mean? And like a fancy society lady, like each time, you know, the water gets turned up,
the heat gets turned up just a little bit. and like when it became okay to make your neighbors wear a patch on their shirt like that's one thing it's one of the things that made i think 35 and 36 such big years i don't know if i'm making any sense but like that that's that's the problem with a lot of stuff i don't even remember what we were talking about i'm very ill but like but it's it's so it's so useful to try and understand anything i think it's so useful to go through it in the order that it happened and you know one bonus reason, you as a human being, like if you're describing something that was really
difficult in your life that led to long-term difficulties and problems and things that you wish had gone differently in your life, if you start at the end, you start however you want. I'm not telling people how to be. I'm just saying this is a thought technology that's helping me a lot. But if you go in the other direction, say, oh, that's, that situation without anybody ever knowing it, unintentionally set up for this other situation. And then I made a bad decision about that or a person who was supposed to protect me didn't and like when you do it in that order and you try to be a little cool eyed about it you can see it you can see those seemingly anodyne
experiences um with the kind of gravity you didn't before and you know what i mean like it's like i don't know it's just uh i think it's helpful to think about stuff like that you have a term i
Alexreally like which is file card and yeah i've found out credit credit to my friend grant just
Merlinfairness for credit to my friend uh grand balfour but yes i use it all the time the file card is for the sake of just the quickest definition um you talk to somebody about something uh everybody there's there's often exactly one thing that someone knows about something and yeah that's your that's your file card on that is it could be something like oh rita ora i know she's a singer but my file card on her is she's married to taika watiti isn't that a pretty isn't that a pretty good example it it is and because i don't control
what i know i mean that's just like well no because like no what alex you why do people buy dictionaries. Well, they don't anymore. Hoist by my own petard. But like we buy dictionaries because we want to have all the words even if we don't need them right now. And so we can't have mastery of all information and wouldn't want what's required to develop mastery of all things. And so I think it's kind of a nice thing to say to somebody, Nicaragua, oh yeah. They've got
the concerts and cigars. That's my thought card on Nicaragua. and to be able to disclose to somebody that you're one is a fucking idiot and that and has a file card on something most people have uh that's also goes through the history of public radio the guess is what i was probably gonna say
Alexworld war uh world war two which i i mean so did i when i was a kid not to cover myself and glory
Merlinbut I feel like if you want if you wanted to cover yourself in glory you should have been here for
Alexthe challenge two weeks ago that's that's uh uh true but um this is the elderly pets episode it's a rough I mean oh uh uh challenge my Christmas Eve I spend uh with my in-laws yes uh challenge wait okay hang on hang on let's pause for him I think we're both very there's a connection you i very very set a nine minute talk normal timer i so christmas eve um we usually spend uh with my
and it it sucks they suck so hard they suck um but my grandpa you're you're okay sorry
MerlinI'm not trying to talk over you It's just a lot of times when I'm doing that Sometimes just off the record Sometimes when I'm doing that I'm just trying I'm trying to not assume that everybody out there Understands you as well as I do
AlexI don't think people understand Anything I am saying Because I'm not going to
MerlinBut you keep doing it You keep doing it and you keep recording it Accepting money for it
AlexWe, on Christmas Eve, I always listen to my grandfather-in-law talk about world, being, living in a boxcar in Poland in World War II. Because that was...
MerlinI'm sorry. Can I ask you one question then? Just one question? Yes. Is this Maddie's family or somebody who's married? Okay.
AlexYeah, this is...
Speaker AIn-laws, I don't know. So wait, Maddie's family's Polish too?
AlexYes. Polish Catholic. Yeah.
MerlinDo you know roughly what area, what city they're from?
AlexNo.
MerlinWell, sorry. Warsaw. It's a big rural. Exactly. Right.
AlexSo it's like, quote, Warsaw, but they moved around.
MerlinMetropolitan Warsaw.
AlexBecause that's how, that was, you know, it did not start in 1945.
MerlinThey totally had a ghetto there.
AlexYeah. Yeah. And so that was his, but because he was a kid and he remembers so little of it, like, thankfully, he only has like two file cards of the Great War.
MerlinDo you know how old he was when they left?
AlexBetween seven, I believe?
MerlinBut he's in the range of like barely, like, we oughtn't believe that even at the height of his memory, we shouldn't trust too much that somebody who says about remembering being before five yes yep yes exactly like all of the stories two warsaw file cards bring it bring it on well there are
Alextwo two like world war ii i remember joint division had a song named after the city but because it was both so formative and his world was so small it was like okay this is what i know my me my neighbors like my life everything's terrible uh he he always brings out a little uh pot that his his family was able to survive longer because they were able to boil the rice and not get sick this
sounds it's it's that's also why we cut the ends off the roast the but his file card is just so so minuscule when it comes to, you know, anything else going on in Europe at that time,
Merlinas well as sort of, yeah.
AlexBut he never refers to, I've never heard him say the word fascism. He always says the Nazi socialists, and which has some implications.
It's the implication.
MerlinIt might be the implication, but also this might be the language where, I mean, that's what they're birthed. That's what they called themselves.
AlexYeah.
MerlinSo it might be a translation issue, too.
AlexI thought that.
MerlinNazi, I think, is kind of an abbreviation.
AlexYeah. And that is what I thought for, or that was the best interpretation. um and but this this polish catholic man uh really really conservative but like uh the kind of conservative where the reason i have seen almost all of the um america what is it america fest is because it was just on in the house and that is what we we were watching and uh this man um that where nikki minaj was the oh oh the turning points thing yeah yes and uh just
hearing this man's file card on on world war ii and also just he has a file card on uh charlie kirk who he did not know existed until this year um and like it it's just really odd and a bit unnerving to see the way that like those file cards get shuffled up in in strange ways like in a way that um also on Christmas unironically there we are listening to a uh
Christmas like a you know like Christmas playlist but he has put together and then in the middle unironically we are charlie kirk starts playing that was just on the christmas list and was that
Merlinbeing crosby who did that uh i really wished it was like alex don't be good alex you can feel the regret in my very ill voice what is we are charlie kirk oh it's a song it's like we are the world for
Alexdinglings um it is an ai song okay okay okay has been parodied to death but okay okay but like but
Merlinit's something like you're you better make sure grandfather happy because he believed in what
Alexcharlie kirk was doing uh why is it why is it in his christmas mix because he believes that like jesus he was sent to good i mean it's okay i mean you don't need to persuade me that's silly i'm
Merlinjust trying to get the facts but that just comes up and so would do they have an ipod how do they
Alexplay songs through through spotify through uh is he comfortable is he comfortable controlling that
Merlinyes what kind of phone is he right what what well i mean i'm i'm intrigued and now i'm interested i would love to have him on the show at this point i think there's a lot we could talk about because if he has an ipod that he uses to control the spotify we could arguably talk about no no i said he has a phone well he stepped on my bit but that's okay okay no right the i'll have him on roderick so we can talk about the beetles and hitler would have been a funny bit no it's not well uh people laugh more if you tried harder in life
Alexwhat is the how old is he he's gotta be what 80 he's gotta be 80 no he's 91 i believe yes yeah 29 same year my mother-in-law was born the yeah it's it's he's is that right am i getting
Merlinthat wrong no 34 34 oh no idea 34 sorry my bad 34 yes in the same age as elvis this would have been that old wow so y'all didn't say would have this is this is the funny part no no i'll tell you why no no are you sure you want to record today you seem like you're mad what you're not having you're not having fun you seem a little prickly what is everything okay yes do i what one ought to say is you know uh in my case my friend sam
uh who was born in march i was born in november uh we were like uh we're like less than a year apart but you know anyhow uh that's a bad example but like sam and i have always been the same age assuming he's still alive we've there's never been a day that we weren't the same age now the reason i'm putting it that way to say elvis would have been 91 which is accurate like that's true oh and your grandfather grandfather or his uh matt's oh my god you
people um the the polish man he's 91 yes i think a better way to put that is not that elvis would have been 91 it's that he and elvis have always been the same age which means that when his family moved out of Warsaw, Elvis was living with Grace, and Aaron had, they were still mourning the death of Aaron. That's, this is the chronology part for me. Do you follow what I'm saying? Like, they were always the same age. So that means anytime you're wondering what life was like for your grandfather
in Warsaw at age six, you can credibly ask, I wonder what life's in Tupelo, Tupelo at that point? I forget but you know for Elvis and his family at six that's the part that blows my mind or to put it in an ugly way I can't believe all of these old people graduated from high school the same year as me Do you ever like you really want Billy you run into people Billy Pilgrim? He can't help I'm stuck in time, but don't you ever run into people, you know from college new from college? I haven't seen him since you go like holy shit. You're not 19 anymore
Don't you it doesn't your brain ever break when you're like oh shit. You're my age now I was like, yeah, no, you're my age still. We've always been the same age. I think it's a slight change that is fascinating. And it's what makes chronology so interesting.
Because time is always the same, unless you bend the paper like in that movie with Murph.
AlexI mean, yes.
MerlinEvery minute costs the same. Every dollar is made of dimes. Every sperm is sacred. every time a bell rings an angel gets its wings um also normalize how it's a wonderful life isn't
Alexas good as miracle on 34th street i i don't know why we can't just say yeah yeah yeah sometimes people shit their pants and miracle on 34th street is a better movie yeah yeah that's all no i agree you can have your timer again i just needed to say it there's so many different ways
Merlinyou could have put that would have been less hostile here's one you know a lot of people really like uh uh the jimmy jimmy stuart movie what's it called um uh what's the jimmy stuart movie a lot of people like it's a wonderful life but you know actually i like miracle
Alexon 34th street more no i want the hostility i am especially at this time of year
Merlinif only we could find some some minor things to argue about that have never mattered and matter even less now and won't matter at all in a week although they never mattered well listen we're all
Alexblips but we you're a blip we're we're but but i mean we all are clones is our own what who what's that from i was hooper 1979 i think it's 79 this is a fascinating we are our clones
MerlinSo all we are, we're all clones. Alice Cooper was really ahead of his time. His favorite TV show in the 70s was Monty Python. And he had a television in every room in his house. And he understood something about live performances that a lot of people in the early 70s didn't understand, which is you got to mock show. You got to get out there and make a show. And a lot of people, he learned that from people like Scream and Jay Hawkins, but then a lot of people learned that from him also.
You gotta get out there and mock shall. You know, do you know that phrase mock shall? No. When the Beatles were on stage, where the Beatles played eight hours a day when they were in residence at Hamburg, taking a lot of speed and, you know, doing all the Beatles things. And depending on who tells the story, it's either like burly guys in the audience, but it's also told sometimes as the manager of the club, would yell mock shall, mock shall, to keep them constantly enthused. You yell mock shall, and that means make a good show. Get out there. Like, rock. Let's talk more rock.
Speaker AAt this point, Alex had to leave because they were about to shit their pants. Happy New Year, everybody.