287. Florida Key Bumps
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Tap a timestamp or any sentence to play from there · machine transcribed (mlx:mlx-community/whisper-large-v3-turbo), expect mistakesAlexThis is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Alex Cox and Merlin Mann. This week's challenge, take a mini vacation.
Hello, Merlin Mann. Hello.
MerlinGood afternoon, Alex. How are you?
AlexOh, I was receiving a spam call and I answered it because I thought it would be a funny bit on the podcast. And they just hung up on me. So now they probably have, um, I've given up some OPSEC. Oh, well. Hello, Merlin man.
MerlinHow are you? Hang on. Who's Sam?
AlexNo, no. Spam. Spam. Spam likely as the Apple, what would you call it?
MerlinI thought you meant like Spam Raimi. Okay.
AlexNo. I still think that his Spideys are the best
MerlinSpider-Man 2 is the best superhero movie
AlexActually, I retract that statement Into the Spider-Verse is You know what? You are correct Spider-Man 2 is the best superhero movie Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse is the best Spider-Man movie want to talk about birds why don't you go how about
Merlinscrape them why don't why don't you go ahead and take that call i'll drink some more of this water
Alexremember the days where i used to be the quiet one on this show i don't know i think you i think
Merlinone thing we probably have in common is we both whether we want to or not exercise a presence in places, even when we're not talking, people are a little worried we're going to talk.
AlexOh, absolutely. Absolutely.
MerlinOh, that was, it wasn't until it came out that I realized how true that is.
AlexYep.
MerlinOh, no. Yep, yep, yep.
AlexEven as a kid.
MerlinI love their podcasts with other people when they don't talk.
AlexYeah, yeah.
MerlinIt's really, actually, we're doing this public service by isolating our two incredibly annoying voices into this one place.
AlexExactly. Thank you.
MerlinIt's like when you lock your toddler in a closet. You know, at least you know where they are. You know what I'm saying?
AlexI don't know if you are willing to answer this question.
MerlinOkay, we'll find out.
AlexYep, we will indeed. Do you think, like, a puberty age is worse than a toddler age?
MerlinFor what?
AlexFor raising a child, not experiencing.
MerlinIs it more difficult from the parent's point of view – I'm just trying to fill in between the lines here. Is it more difficult from a parent's point of view to be dealing with a teenager versus dealing with a toddler?
AlexYes.
MerlinI don't know. They are perhaps unsurprisingly very similar and extremely different. The thing – when your kid's little, at least you know where they are. You know, you don't have to be as anxious that way. But I don't know. I mean, boy, this is the ultimate chicken problem. My kid's just so easy to deal with.
I shouldn't even say anything. I could make it sound worse than it is. Ah, doing needle drugs again. But, you know, oh, I'm going to send him off to the Catholic camp, you know, get that kid straightened out, cut some trail. I don't know. You know, I'll tell you what I do know is that, Now, you two nieces are your young people, right?
AlexYes, yes.
MerlinAnd I don't want to make this about gender, except insofar as I think it kind of is a thing about gender, which is, you know, there's a lot of generalizations people make about people of which kids are a kind of person.
And then, like, that becomes – you got to be careful because you don't – I don't want to pursue too many cliches about this kind of stuff. You know, one of the cliches, like, write it up on the wall. Like this is like Elizabeth Holmes' Yoda quote. One of the things you hear and learn and overhear and, you know, come to look forward to because it's become like a scroll telling you about your future. Girls are easy to deal with when they're little. And then boys are easy to deal with once puberty comes. The girls are, you know, so difficult.
And I mean, I don't know, man. It's weird. It's like saying, well, it's like only wanting a clock that says 10, 10 a.m. It's like, well, it's just different all the time. Boethius' wheel continues to turn. Boethius? I never know how to pronounce it.
Conspiracy of Dunces. But I do feel that, forgive me, I'm trying to, I want to stop doing the thing where I talk about other podcasts where I said something.
AlexNo, talk about your more popular show. No, no, no, no.
MerlinIt's really annoying and unnecessary. It's just that I'm self-conscious about it. But here's what I'll say. A feeling that I had, we wanted our kid to go to preschool, and there's some pretty good ones around. In the end, it was a kind of wildly frustrating experience where we first, I anyway, got my first taste of, ooh, San Francisco's a little bit snooty. I think I might have told you, the one that we really wanted our kid to get into that I loved, I just adored this one preschool. I actually hopped this. I'm such a tryhard. I made like a little fake newsletter about our family and the relationship we were looking forward to with this school.
And we didn't get in and they didn't, of course, acknowledge it. I'm sure I went straight into the potential restraining order pile. But like in my experience, if you want a job, there's a forgotten like hot tip those fat cats don't want you to know, which is to tell them how much you want the job. I want this job so much. And I mean, yeah, I could use the job and the money, but this is such a perfect fit. It would be crazy for both of us. So my case, if I'm trying to get a job that I really, really want, it's not a very young version of me would be a try hard who talks about how great I am.
But the more enlightened way is to say, oh, my gosh, this would be so good for both of us. And my job then to get the job becomes persuading you that it is accurate, that I can show you a way that we are an unbeatable combination.
AlexYou know, interesting that you bring that up, Merlin Mann, because this podcast is so great for both of us. It is definitely an emotionally healthy thing that we should keep doing forever and ever. What does this have to do with the preschool?
MerlinOh, you're talking to me? Please continue the show. You're talking to me. You do that.
AlexYeah, just do.
MerlinOh, I see. I do. I hope you don't worry about stuff like that. I mean.
AlexNo. I mean, it's something I can't control.
MerlinI need inertia more than I need blood. I mean, just the stillness of changing nothing is really my ideal state for everything. And there was that. The reason I'm saying that is why I remember we went to visit one of these schools. And like the way I described this, you know, everybody's met like a little boy. You know, think of Frances McDormand's son, the kids that she has in Raising Arizona.
You know what I mean?
AlexLet's pretend I've seen that movie.
MerlinOkay. Well, okay. In the movie, she and Sam Murray, the guy from Tracy Ullman's show, they have these kids that are just – they're terrible and they're like destroying, you know, H.I. and what's-her-name's trailer? And they're just – they're out of control. They're writing on the walls and the parents are like barely paying any attention. That's how every kid at the preschool looked to me when we walked through the door. I might remember this wrong but what I remember is that every child had a shovel and was hitting a tree I might be remembering that wrong
but it was like the clang clang clang of a chain gang except everybody was three and I was like if my child and this is the nice one there's well I won't say OPSEC but I always thought I have a sweet precious blossom and everybody else is trying to destroy it because their kids are fucking monsters especially the boys You might even hear this at some point. And again, I'm not trying to be like a gender dick.
But boy energy is a thing.
AlexOh, absolutely. It's not, you know, fake to say that boys are difficult to deal with because it's the construct that it just exists.
MerlinYou should spell the word boysters with a Y, right? There's no Y in question.
AlexThank you.
MerlinThank you very much.
AlexI like that. I like that.
MerlinAnd anyway, what's the point? I don't know what the point is. But little boys can be really a lot. Gosh, I watch a lot of TV. I've been watching, I just finished last night, the Hulu series, Candy. And it involves people. There's some kids involved and stuff.
AlexIs it a murdery kids show?
MerlinIt's a murder show based on a true story. Oh, dear. And Jonah Ryan's in it, and he's terrific.
AlexOh.
MerlinSo, poor homework. I see Joan. No, no, no. I see Joan and Ryan everywhere now. But the kids in it are driving this woman a little bit nuts. And if you're going to have, like, for example, we used to have sleepovers. In one instance for our kids, I want to say maybe eighth or ninth birthday. I know I told you this story. We made the terrible decision to have a sleepover for a birthday with, you know, girl-gendered people of the age, concomitant age, like say eight or nine.
And I think we had like a dozen little girls staying at our house. And like that's, I mean, it's like, well, taking a little bite of a leaf of cilantro is one thing. And it's another thing for someone to make you a helmet of cilantro and then force you to eat it over and over or something. Like it was really the factionalism, the people sleeping in different rooms, the like that. Like everybody was mad. And of course, that's also an age where, I mean, this is going to be subtle unless you've been through this journey. Like every kid has a different level of energy and just even something as simple as bedtime.
Some kids get really revved up if they stay up a little later.
AlexSome 31 year olds get a little revved up if they stay up too late.
MerlinDo you? Well, the other one, though, is you think about what's introverted and extroversion. It's the amount of energy over time that you draw or expend on other people. And, like, if you're not used to being around a lot of boisterous kids, girl-stress kids, I don't see gender. But if you're not around that a lot and you don't have, like, one of my kid's best friends has two older brothers who are extremely boisterous. And, like, this kid, I think they've just got, like, a revolving credit account at the emergency room. They're always breaking something.
They're always running into traffic. But if you're not used to being around that, if you're used to being able to have your own room and go to sleep, that's very upsetting. Some kids get tired earlier and later, and that doesn't seem like it matters, except, oh my goodness, it was a lot to manage.
I'm not sure why I'm saying all of this. People are people, so how can it be you and I get along so awfully? People are complicated. Did you go to sleepovers a lot when you were a kid?
AlexNot willingly, but yes, many, many a sleepover.
MerlinWhat did you, if you can say, what made you not enjoy that or not want to do that?
AlexOh, because of all the basic ass or the girl stressness. And, oh, it's strange to say that, like, my biggest regrets come from when I was 12. But in order to not.
MerlinWell, did you feel weird at that point?
AlexOh, like having my bits tingle for other girls? No, but everyone told me that I did until I'm like, no, that's the lesbian over there.
MerlinWell, I mean, as I say, I'm asking you honestly because I'm not even trying to do a bit about your conformity. It's more, I'm saying like there are some kinds of sleepover things I really look forward to. Other kinds of things I found extremely traumatic. But I think every kid's different and it depends on the mix. And as much as it would be nice not to think about stuff like who's cool and who's popular, like that kind of stuff can really come to the – I don't know.
AlexYou had to go to sleepovers because it was social currency. Like, yes, there's this amount of nights.
MerlinWhen if you didn't go there, we're probably going to talk about you. Yes. But also it's just like – I don't know. I mean, it's something that I didn't even one quarter figure out until high school. I mean, there's the whole idea of like, wow, this is a kind of this this person really kind of peaked. And it's not peaked necessarily, but it was like a BMOC at 14. And like I felt like I was, you know, seven years old when I was around kids like that. Some of those kids really thrive at studying for the bio test.
like my friend Kim. Some kids really thrive at the football, like my friend Phil. Like there are people who, the best version of their personality, think about kids who love to perform. They seem so extroverted. They love getting up there, but that might be the shyest person you've ever met. I bet at a sleepover, Marlon Brando mostly cut to himself and read a book, I'm guessing, which is what my kid always wanted to do, just bring a Wings of Fire book and like go sit in a closet with a flashlight. My kid only ever wanted to read at parties. So anyway, you don't know what side of a person you're going to have access to.
And I'm just saying this will serve you well in life, folks. So feel free to write this down. Stuff like, as you say, energy velocity and energy levels, stuff about introversion, extroversion. Something about health stuff you didn't know about.
I think more kids than a lot of us realized had nighttime urination issues or general urination issues or poop issues. and this was covered on Bob's Burgers.
AlexOh, yeah.
MerlinBut there are a lot of, I mean, like my kid is friends with at least two kids that still have to keep an eye on that. Ooh, that sucks. Yeah, well, no, I mean, it's not unusual at all. How many people have you met? You may never know how many kids you know. And I hate that phrase, but went to bed until they were like 11, 12, 14, 20. And it's because there's physiological stuff. There's all kinds of stuff. It could be you're drunk and you pee on your fiance, you know, whatever it is. But there's that stuff. There's the whole like, oh, who knows what happened?
Who knows what kind of drama happened when they had sloppy joes before they got dropped off? Maybe they're getting dropped off because their parents need to talk about their divorce. Like you never know any of that stuff. And you take all these kids who were forced, mostly forced to conform to a certain mode of behavior at school. Like you get them all in a room. You remember that weird feeling of like I had my church friends. I had my school friends. I had my neighborhood friends. And there was absolutely overflow, Venn diagram overflow between all of them. But I had school friends that were much more school friends than church friends.
And I had church friends who were much more church friends than neighborhood friends. Because that was the primary context for being together. Do you follow?
AlexYeah. And I think my Venn diagram overlapped more because I went to Catholic school. And the goal was for everybody to be in the middle of that Venn diagram because then it was like back of friends. If something went awry, if you were pushed out of one of the circles, which happened regularly.
MerlinOh, absolutely.
AlexIt's messed up. Yeah.
MerlinAnd this is why. I mean, like, I don't know. I got my reasons for becoming freshly, what's the word I'm looking for, relativistic about life in a lot of ways. Like I was pretty relativistic about life and a very annoying and in all instances, it's pretty uninformed. But I see so many more exceptions than rules so much of the time with stuff and with people. And like I think it's a miracle that anybody can keep it together enough to get through any day.
If we were really, really being honest with ourselves, even the most mentally, emotionally, physically, socially healthy people. I think a lot of us have our doubts about how well we're doing in life and I don't know I mean it's a little bit like probably another movie you haven't seen Trading Places like what would it take to get these to break this guy who has everything and to take this guy who has nothing and make it look like he has everything and there's a part of me that always feels like we're like 2
to 48 hours that's another Eddie Murphy movie 2 to 72 hours away from everything falling apart. You know? Like, why do we end up crying sometimes? I don't know. I just end up crying sometimes. Often it's because of Doctor Who. But it's not, it's more like the-
AlexDid you see Donna and the-
MerlinSorry. Yeah, yeah. I hope Adipose comes back too. The fat just walks away. I love them so much. But I don't know. I think there's like- I'm talking about a lot of movies. It's also kind of like Equus. Like the mask slips and suddenly we're a crazy person. Like you realize we've been trying to fuck a horse we think is Jesus. You know, spoilers. But I think we're all closer to that than we realize. And you get somebody into Ricky Craw's basement.
You get six kids with a copy of Le Freak by Chic. And some shit's going to go down. And Ricky was a bedwetter. which sounds like a Rob Zombie song. I thought he was a bedwetter.
AlexCrying sidebar, do you find that you cry more often when you are around people who tend not to cry?
MerlinThat's a good question. I don't think so. I should finish that thought. All I was going to say was that I don't know why I cry sometimes. No, no, no. Just to finish the reason I said it was that sometimes stuff wells up and it comes out. And isn't it in that moment, what is crying? Crying, you know, you grew up thinking crying equals sadness. But I think you can make a case that crying is about frustration and kind of temporarily giving up. Like crying is your body's way of saying, I can't even. And here's, let me show you how much I can't even.
And so, but isn't it in the moments of crying where we go like, and this, and this, and this. And you find yourself pushing every bruise, every emotional bruise you have and like letting it all out and feeling like everything's falling apart. And I think that can happen at a sleepover. we should have a sleepover you and me just the two of us you know what it'll be it'll be like brooklyn 99 we'll just we'll just you and me we'll be at the safe house for like three or four months we'll watch all the nicholas cage movies it'll be really fun just me and you except except ironically enough for uh the the the
mandolin one captain corelli is that his name is he the one with the mandolin i have no idea what
Alexyou're talking about brooklyn 99 you ever watch that i yes but not like seven times and not the
Merlinfinal season. Well, you couldn't possibly understand if you didn't see it seven times.
AlexWhat an odd thing to say. Are you saying blue lives matter? Here we go.
MerlinDo you find yourself crying more around people? Tell me why you asked that. You got an example.
AlexOh, absolutely. Because I, you know, my gender, I am under the laws of gender. I'm contractually obligated to mention that my spouse is on testosterone. And so he cries way less than he used to. He was a big, big crier back in the lesbian days.
MerlinWas Matt okay generally with being
Alexa crier? Yeah. I don't think a more than is healthy crier, but a Doctor Who
Merlincrier. No, but I just mean did it cause Matt stress to realize they were
Alexa crier? No, not at all. In fact, the opposite. It caused him not sort of distress, but concern over the realization that it's very difficult for him to cry now. It is a chemical thing. When your body has too much testosterone, sometimes you can't cry.
MerlinI think that's why I cried a lot more when I was taking Adderall.
AlexInteresting.
MerlinThat was one of the things that brought us on our journey, the doctor and me, to Lamictal was that, you know, somewhat without respect to dose, but not totally, I was getting more emotional. Sometimes I could get like, I wouldn't get angry exactly, but whatever emotion I was feeling, the hook could get into that emotion and go faster. And I would definitely cry more often. But it's also having a kid. Maybe it's also having a kid. No, I think that totally makes sense.
to the testosterone. Now, is that a... I'm trying to figure this out. So like, oh, you're a manly man. Manly man doesn't cry. Does manly man not cry because of testosterone or does manly man cry because there's a broken inside that they can't imagine being seen being vulnerable? Is it literally, we put these chemicals in you and you cry less? Is that how it works?
AlexFor some people, yes. And obviously, asterisk, asterisk, endocrinology is a big old thing. But I guess we're going to talk about Matthew's body a bit.
MerlinI didn't mean to. I was just trying to go with your bit.
AlexNo, no, no. Oh, no, no, no. It, I.
MerlinYou're talking about my body?
AlexI, well, no. But like, he was, as a lady, he was like petite and did not have a lot of testosterone. Like, very late to puberty. Didn't get his period until like 16. Just naturally small little lesbian. And I, being the giant hairy Polish Yeti, now, like occasionally, I have more testosterone than like the average man.
MerlinHow do you determine that through a blood test?
AlexYeah, yeah. And it's super weird. But I am a crier and more of a crier now that Matt doesn't cry. And this is, no studies have been done, but like a common thing.
MerlinOh, like it used to be you'd have a sin eater. You'd invite a sin eater to come to the funeral and eat all your sins. You're the tear eater.
AlexI am. I am. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. I'm salty.
MerlinYou could literally get a mug from Donald Trump that says liberal tears, and that's what you'd use it for.
AlexYeah. And I also, however, however, also did not cry very much during height of like lockdown during the pandemic. And I don't know what that was about. Like, it was like the reverse airplane phenomena where not being around anybody. I don't know. Like, I cried when I lost some people to COVID and like, but I don't know. Like, Doctor Who wouldn't make me cry. It was very strange.
MerlinI will bring my typically learned armchair psychiatrist to this, which is, you know, if upset, it's crying is what happens when we've given up. Like, what if you can't afford to give up?
AlexOh, fuck.
MerlinAnd like, there's, I think there are plenty of stories, probably from your grandparents and later generation people who came from Europe, stories about they probably didn't cry for a real long time. They might have cried a little at first, but then a lot of people, you don't cry until the thing is mostly over because you don't have – I don't know. I think it varies a lot, but there's a part of me that's like – I think part of it is like think about when you've been in an automobile accident or almost in an automobile accident. Well, especially if you've been – I was in a car one time with my pals and we got T-boned by a Domino's driver.
AlexWhat? I didn't know this. Oh, my God.
MerlinOh, no, it's cool. It was really weird. It was in Florida. It happens. And the car went spinning and it got totaled. And we were all mostly fine. But remember how at first, I've been on a handful of car accidents or car incidents, whatever we call it now. But it's not unusual at all, as you know. When you're in the midst of that and your, I guess, probably adrenaline is pumping, that you don't feel hurt. You're really jacked up. You're really keyed up. And again, like get ready for a weird superpower of ADHD is the more overwhelming a current situation gets, the better I handle it.
It's like if there's an actual emergency, I'm like I am like laser focused. And like I am so in the moment because the dopamine just shot way up and I'm finally the way my body would like to be. so in some ways you know let's be honest uh anxiety one component of anxiety in adhd is that you're constantly trying to get your dopamine level up i think part of it is your brain's like we got to get it get it up there get up there so that you can essentially go from
bruce banner to the incredible hulk and deal with what you've got to do um but you know that feeling though of like you're hurt you hurt but you don't know you're hurt and then like it's not until maybe even like the next day that you're like, oh my God, my neck really hurts.
Don't you think that's kind of part of it? Your, your body, your, your mind and your body are, are, are going to take over your, your Vegas system is going to go a little bit nuts. See also, you know, um, the Vandertrauma, like, you know, you're, you're, you've got to stay alive in this moment. Keep your head on a swivel. You don't have time to be sad about something that happened
Alexearlier yeah that's that that makes sense especially as you know i i went to brain school i kind of broke down and uh not broke down but decided okay uh when i decided to go to brain school what most people would go would call a psychiatric program because i was like okay something's wrong but i don't know yeah it was it was a group well the the like it was like group therapy was like
kind of
MerlinI don't have a problem with Brain School. Brain School is a very cute name for something.
AlexOh yeah, they adopted it very quickly. I was quite proud of it. It was my one dumb name for something.
MerlinYou're also going to say Zoom Zoom and Vroom Vroom and Ra Ra? Pan Pan? We should make a talking Alex doll. That would be so cute. It would take six tries to get it to say anything but when it did it would be really cute.
AlexI eat squares.
MerlinI eat soup.
You never know that you never, I mean, like, you know, like I was saying, Equis, moments snap together like magnets. You don't know what's going to cause it. What was my latest cry? I had a pretty good cry recently. and my kid you know will just knows exactly the point in like certain tv shows and movies when i always cry you know there's like two two there's like i guess probably at least two maybe three points in for example in um uh falling slowly what's the name of the movie once yeah the the
little pull out from her sitting at the piano and the brick wall i mean and you're like oh my god But that follows him running through the airport and all of that, and then the piano arriving, and you're like, oh, my God. And that goddamn song is playing, and my heart is breaking. We talked about this in our episode about crying, right? Oh, yes. Max said first, number one, I don't cry about things very much. And then number two, produced a list that took like three minutes to read.
AlexUh-huh. I think I saw him cry more than perhaps, well, more than any boss I've had. But crying is a, I don't know, I don't like that people consider it a superpower to stay very calm, collective, and I think what's seen as those.
MerlinIt can help a lot in moments where everybody else is very emotional. Yes. It can help a lot to have somebody there who's, I don't know, not always, and you could, again, we're two giant steps away, but pretty close to toxic masculinity. Like, are you incapable of feeling that? But like, no, sir, all 13, day of the doctor, be a doctor. Of course, I did a whole episode with, was it Tom about, you know, be a doctor.
There's stuff like that. But like, why am I crying about that? Well, who knows, man? Like, it just could be that like, there's a moment of like vulnerability that snuck in. And I do feel like part of crying for me, because I'm really fortunate in life. And I don't have a lot of day to day stuff that is really killing me, like in my environment. but sometimes because everything is mostly okay technically sometimes it really sneaks up on me uh i don't and it could be you know why do i why do you create a tv show because it takes you back to something or you know and now i sound like don draper but it really is true
nostalgia is is part of nostalgia is pain you know i was i got nostalgic this morning about chris glass um who's alive yeah he's cancer-free still um but like chris glass is a friend of mine who's a, I'm very honored to call him a friend of mine who's one of the most gifted graphical designers and photographers I've ever known. There's never been, I mean, I don't personally know that many people that are so much to themselves all the time. And it just shines through in this, everything that this guy does. And I, yeah, I was just like reminiscing and like
thinking today for a shirt related podcast project, I was saying, oh, you know, it's wild is Chris designed 43 folders. You know, Chris designed a bunch of some government program stuff. He designed the logo for, not React, Node.js. But he's just, he did Waxi, their wonderful website. But he's done these great shirts. And when we first became pals, what was his, was it Wire & Twine? Was that the name of his company? I bought a shirt, this olive green shirt with this beautiful,
very light pattern of an exploded Nintendo Wiimote on it.
AlexI remember that. Yes.
MerlinI wore that shirt. So I loved that shirt. I wore it all the time. I wore it to the campus of Google when I did the Inbox Zero talk. And I'm wearing like a jacket, like a windbreaker, and I'm wearing, you can't see it really. I know. I'm wearing Chris's Nintendo Wiimote shirt. Now my kid wears that shirt. that's one of those things where like oh okay i get it grandpa well time's funny but like it's that synecdoche new york kind of thing where i'm like that's really
you know circle of life stuff and like that takes you know side note i was very interested in the somewhat ham-fisted work of but a very interesting work of a guy named arthur kessler when i was in college and i i probably broadly misunderstood a lot of what this guy talked about But he talked about – I did an independent study project on this guy's book, The Act of Creation. And he had this – I'm going to mangle this for my own purposes. But the basic idea is – and you think about in theater and in rhetoric, you've got like – you have comedy and tragedy.
But if you think about what a joke is, a joke, the thing that almost everybody agrees about is that in one way or another, conventionally or unconventionally, humor or anti-humor, a joke involves some kind of a surprise. it involves usually generally a satisfying surprise like an ending you didn't expect you know I've been watching Game of Thrones like I do and there's this wonderful scene where Grey Worm and Missandei and Tyrion are sitting around
and he's making them drink and they look like like I said last night on Twitter they look like every single person of color at work they're sitting like bolt upright like yeah and he's making them drink and they don't want to drink And then he asked each of them to tell a joke. And they're slaves. They've been slaves their entire life. And so their jokes are like slave jokes. And it's just, it's, I don't know. What was my point about Game of Thrones? Why did I say that?
AlexBecause of what a joke is.
MerlinOh, yeah. So a joke is a surprise. But, you know, that really, it's, even if you could think of the punchlines from famous jokes, like the world's greatest, the greatest Catholic joke of all time, Peter, I can see your house from up here. Now that's a twist because it would seem weird that right before he dies, the thing Jesus would yell is that he could see Peter's house from the cross. And that's what makes that funny. That's a collision of a matrix and another matrix. You could think of it like an X matrix and a Y matrix. But when two matrices clash together and the result is – and this also gets into stuff like status and the improv stuff.
But the basic one of like funny is when two matrices slam together and the surprise is a relief that makes you laugh. Tragedy in some ways is two matrices that clash together with a surprise that's unspeakably sad. So when the incredibly pretentious mean boss slips on the ice and falls on his ass and goes, oofa that's funny because of things like status and surprise and like that person's taking down
a peg if it's the sweet old lady that's been working in the soup kitchen and she falls down her head cracks open and the blood goes down the drain that's terrible it's the same rough idea but like that's that's one way to think about this stuff is when you when you slam these matrices together but like that but that's kind of the thing is this but all those things share a certain kind of surprise. If you could anticipate exactly, and again, humor, I'm not going to begin to take apart what humor is, but just on the strength here, I was very interested in that idea of
creativity is taking two things that oughtn't ordinarily belong together and smashing them together and then make something...
AlexThe intersection of science and technology.
MerlinBut also where, hopefully there's a gestalt of some kind, like the thing that I've made here is greater than the two separate things. 2 plus 2 equals 99. If it worked out well. Synergism in the true sense of pharmacology. Like I've made something incredible here that these two things, there's no way you could imagine what conjurer, what alchemist it would take to take these two unrelated things like, I don't know, a Mentona Diet Coke and make something completely different. And I don't know. I think about that a lot. And I think, of course, because I'm how I am, that to me was an interesting suit to try on in thinking about what makes something funny.
But over time, it's been a real – it's felt like a real insight into thinking about what makes something tragic or what makes something sad. you need to have a surprise in your joke for it to be funny. And it needs, you know, what is timing, timing, timing, as Steve Martin says. You've got to like get the timing right. And then if you hit it at exactly the right velocity, people who are good at telling jokes know exactly how to tell it so that the funniest part is clearly the funniest part. And it surprised you. But in life, it's the thing that, the things that make us cry
are when those matrices smash together. This reminded me of that. In a way I hadn't expected. Talking to a friend of mine about making a shirt for our podcast suddenly had me thinking about the role of a olive green piece of cloth in my life. Isn't that odd?
AlexThat's the thing. I don't think it's odd, which says a lot about how my brain works, I guess. But I'm thinking about a shirt.
MerlinMaybe I'm like the ADD Proust, you know? Dicking my Madeline. Whoa. Sorry, honey. Oh, boy. Okay, let's start over.
Remembrance of Things Past Funny. What? What? What? What? And then they changed it. They changed it. They said, no, that's not what it is. It's actually called In Search of Lost Time, which is really quite a different title.
Alexoh really?
Merlinit used to be when I was growing up you'd always say that big Proust book nobody's read nobody gets past Swan's way it's really long but the Proust book was we always called it Remembrance of Things Past and I think today the conventional title is In Search of Lost Time
Alexwhy? it's like they pulled a Pluto don't even get me started on Pluto
MerlinI'm still mad about that
Alexit's a planet, it's a planet we all know it's a planet
MerlinIt's in my head canon.
AlexMm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
MerlinI'm sorry I talked a lot. I'm sorry.
AlexNo, it's very good.
MerlinIt's all right to cry. Crying gets the sad out. Remember when I was on, hey, Quinn, remember when I was on Quinn's show and I talked about that children's record when I was a kid?
AlexYes.
MerlinYeah, that was a weird episode. I don't think it was what Quinn was expecting.
AlexWell, I mean, that's what made it a trench. That wasn't funny. That wasn't funny.
MerlinOf course it was funny.
AlexIt was funny.
MerlinFuck off. That's good. Oh, God.
AlexYou have some interesting things in the doc that, you know, very incidental computer show.
MerlinBut I finally just created a new section. I didn't ask Syracuse about this. I finally just created a new section because I've always got stuff I don't need to talk to you about. but you're my, well, no, you're probably my favorite person with whom to speak about certain kinds of tech things. And so I figured instead of trying to put that in an area where you look at it and go, why does Merlin want to talk so much about his computer? Like, I thought I'd put it into an area, which I'm calling TechGrab back.
AlexI like it.
MerlinNow, the rant about the at sign under News and Topics, that's unrelated strictly to technology. It's adjacent to technology, but that's just a rant. I just like the chance to hear my own voice, as you know.
AlexOkay, I am loving hearing your voice. Actually, do you have a cold or is it just early?
MerlinNo, I had rectus. No, I had rectus last night. And then what did I watch? I watched some TV. No, I'm good. You know, also, I mean, if I'm being honest, I woke up at like 9.05. Sorry, so 11.05 your time.
AlexNo, I live on, it is a time technology that I've been doing, living on Pacific time.
MerlinWhy? How come?
AlexBecause most of the people that I work with are on the West Coast, so why not?
MerlinSo you work a little bit, you start a little later, work a little later?
AlexYeah, that's what we did at Cards, sort of.
MerlinI always, not always, I frequently feel so bad for when I look and go, ooh, it's around lunchtime or it's like, ooh, after show's done, I guess I better start getting ready to go home. I'm like, oh my God, it's two hours later for Alex. Alex, I always feel so bad that I'm dragging you into this whole day affair.
AlexNo, no, no, no. That's, my Wednesdays and my Thursdays are yours and you copy edit my brain on Thursdays.
MerlinI can't afford, I can't afford, I can't afford your loyalty.
AlexI love copy editing your brain
MerlinIt's like having a home x-ray machine For a sick dog
AlexRusty
MerlinQuit biting your paw Yop yop yop yop yop Quit eating your poop
AlexI just bit my hand For some reason Thinking it would be funny And it just hurt
MerlinNo you did That's to your matrices clash
AlexI taste like soap. Ooh, it's very pleasant.
MerlinWhat did I have here? Oh, yeah, the stream deck. I talked about this on Back to Work yesterday, but I'm back in on the stream deck.
AlexOh, hold up. Hold up. This is putting my paw down. What is, am I a furry now? What the fuck? What is your, the at sign rant? Is this like, you know, at sign? I'm very confused.
MerlinI think, at least to my knowledge, maybe this started with IRC, but we started using an at symbol to precede a username or, if you like, a handle. Twitter is at least where I first started encountering that a lot. We could say at Alex Cox or whatever, right? It's really so important that people stop writing tweets where 98% of the time in tweets they write and they choose to use people's handles, they don't audibly pronounce the
Alexat right because the at the at is part of the name correct right i mean it would be i mean
Merlinit's it's it's much sillier than always pronouncing the suffix of a file do people do this political twitter so they but so people who had never in a million years pronounce the at symbol in their day-to-day will say, new article up at NY Times.
AlexOh, without A-T, it's just the at.
MerlinWithout using the words A-T. The nice thing I want to say is, just so you all know, I can't tell you how I know this, but I do know this. What I do know is you never, ever, ever pronounce, you don't need to pronounce the at. The at is part of their name, right? It is pretty rare that we end a sentence by saying period.
AlexExcept on political Twitter. Interesting. Wow.
MerlinRight? Because that's like a different part of the band. Like you don't need to pronounce that. If we said colon all the time, it would be hilarious. But you don't need to ever pronounce that at. And consequently, the less nice and very strident thing, and I can't tell you how I know this, but I know this, is that you should write like a person. You're a professional fucking writer. use use the three characters you need to get at a t space don't do we have to stop it has to stop
Alexalex it's making me insane why has this because i'm using twitter less and that means when i do
Merlinlook at it it makes me mad oh all right i'm really almost completely off twitter at this point
Alexi'm as someone who has tried to go off twitter many times and just it's very unhealthy we talk about it a lot but i have decided to just start using twitter the same way i did in like 2012 and just not not care i sometimes i post too much sometimes the the show yes yes the show or or how i know i've been talking about boy oh like rob mcelaney lately oh man that's
and then you'll get the likes or the follows from the people who are and I used to not pay attention to this at all
MerlinOh like in the bad days of Favard
AlexWell no but then it's like
MerlinIt's another Saturday night I'm eating chocolate chip ice cream out of my vagina Like like like like like like like You people ruined it You took a beautiful thing and ruined it with pussies Stop talking about your pussy
AlexOh no
MerlinTry harder, do better
Alexbe funnier smash matrices dummies not oh not everyone can be hot dogs ladies okay do you not everybody can be by your logic okay okay okay okay you asked and i said i you asked and i said
Merlinnow for me twitter just as long just to respond twitter has mostly become a fun nighttime thing for me it's a fun nighttime thing um opening it during the day i i it's it's very stressful and it isn't fun and it only takes opening it for me to go oh you know what it's better off that i was doing this thing over here i didn't even know about madison cawnthorne until it had been over for like a while oh like and it was because my lady told me i said hey done done recording with syracuse uh gonna head up in a little bit beat a boo and um and my wife said uh something like can
you can you believe he's out i was like what what what we got in this time who who which one's out But yeah, Jaboy, Jaboy did not. He conceded. Did you know that?
AlexI did because Matt Gaetz, you know, friend of the show, Matt Gaetz, who's not Matt Gertz, tweeted. No, no. Tweeted like vote for Madison Cawthorn as he was like, I assume, as he was losing. Because I also learned about this sort of after the fact. and then just a tweet from him being like, I support whatever his name is.
MerlinSorry, let's go slow. Let's go slow. You're saying Matt Gertz, while he was doing key bumps with some ladies in Florida, probably ladies for school supplies. So Matt Gertz is doing his own Florida key bumps title and he sent out a ding-a-ling pro Cawthorn message after he had already conceded the race. Is that correct?
AlexIt seemed not after he had conceded, but clearly after he had lost.
MerlinDidn't seem like he was following it real closely, maybe?
AlexNo, no, no, no. It's like somebody got a text.
MerlinAnd why would he tell people to vote at that hour?
AlexI don't know, to make his buddy happy so that he wouldn't talk about fake coke parties.
MerlinI don't know.
AlexRelease the tapes, please, please. Oh, the most upsetting thing, not the most upsetting thing, other than the whole white supremacy part of Madison Cawthorn, he threw his friend under the bus or i read that that article was so depressing i did not know i
Merlindidn't know uh we'll find this for notes it was in i forget where but there was yeah in the time after his uh the accident that um you know gave him his situation i don't know how to say fucking anything anymore i have to always check out am i misgendering my wife when i call her her like Everything's such a goddamn mess now. I don't know what I... And honestly, I'm not trying to be your dad here. I'm trying to say, like, I don't want to say something unintentionally hurtful. So I have to overthink it until I go... But his friend was driving.
And then there's these texts that I guess are public record. And he's, like, swinging for the fences from an emotional standpoint. And then he sues his friend. Is that right?
AlexOh, I didn't even hear about that. I know his mom defended his friend who was driving the car.
MerlinOh, I gotta find this.
AlexI'm not sure which.
MerlinMaybe Madison Cawthorn should just spend a lot less time in cars is a thing.
AlexHe really should. He's been at a lot of, apparently in a lot of cars, at a lot of hotels, just doing things that may or may not be gay.
MerlinHe's too online for Congress. you know sometimes apropos of nothing sometimes my safari history is not properly synced between devices and I don't know
Alexoh I got that
Merlinoh you know what I bet it's an instapaper let me look there no I mean it's okay okay we're just between friends here something that I said then when I did get home last night and was chatting with my lady wife who I think is a gendered lady we were talking about this and I was like I really I kind of feel like and it's the kind of thing you always say to somebody like that I feel like Madison Cawthorne, this is going to be a little bit funny, but not funny, and you're going to tell me it's not funny. Madison Cawthorne and Ezra Miller kind of feel like they're having a race to the bottom right now. I could see either one of these guys,
I could see this going 5x tragic for either one of those guys. They're not well. Obviously, Ezra Miller, that guy's not well. And I honestly think, I'm not trying to do that fake concern thing, although it is slightly fake concern just because I hate him so much, but Madison Cawthorne,
Alexlike you gotta worry about the guy he's like 26 he yeah and i'm like am i being a bully like he's
Merlinfive years younger than me i mean and he's obvious if that was somebody at your school you'd call an ra like he's something's fucking wrong with that guy uh-huh uh-huh well and and
Alexpeople did call ras because he was like i he didn't he ended up not being able to he failed at assaulting women because people are like um excuse me um excuse me and god he has the most homeschooled kid energy that oh i just again i see jonah ryan all these guys are jonah ryan
Merlinmatt gates is jonah ryan madison cawthorne is jonah ryan oh here we go it's from politico um he's not let's see i'll just read a little excerpt from this he's not okay the entirely predictable unraveling of madison cawthorne put this in notes um but yeah it's just got I don't want to read it because I'm making fun of the guy. He was at a very, very terrible time in his life.
And so they interview all these people who are like, yeah, I know. I mean, he's not doing good. Like, it's, yeah, yeah. Anyway, sorry, I'll put this into notes. He had a vision board.
AlexOh, what?
MerlinHe actually had a vision board that said Congressman Cawthorn.
AlexOh, that's so, hmm. You know what? I think it's okay to call that pathetic. Like, if you will stoop solo to make your manly Pinterest board happen, like, oh, oh, God. It makes it more gross. I mean, the whole, like, Republicans are hypocritical is, at this point, really obvious and played out. But when there's that sort of sad, I don't want to say sad because it doesn't, it's pitiful, I think.
MerlinThis is the part that's so maddening, Alex, is that, and it's why we're constantly, it's part of the chicken problem. Don't do that. You're being anti-queer. Don't do that. You're being ableist. Don't do that. All those things. And it's like, I don't want to be any of those things. You don't get to see the nearly 100% of my life that that's the last thing in the world I would say about anybody. You don't see that. You don't have to see that. You see the one time out of a thousand that I go, oh, that guy's such a hypocrite. Why does he hate gay people?
Don't do that. You're being anti-queer. No, I'm not. Like, my life is not anti-queer. It's my looking at this guy and going, what these fucking people get away with? The hypocrisy of what they get away with. And, like, it's the folks on our nominal side of the aisle who kind of yell at us about it. And, you know, the thing is, I yell at us about it, too. I do agree that I would like to live in a world where we don't say anything hurtful about anybody. But it's so maddening to see this person rise in power and regard.
And like it's everything that I can do to not be unkind about their setbacks in life. But when the setback in life is so broadly ironic, if not, I hate the word hypocrisy, as you know, but like it's just it's like, are you fucking kidding me? Are we just supposed to like not notice what's going on with this person? And like, it's really, and like, but like, but you know, then you, you get a, um, you get a yellow card from somebody in the peanut gallery because, you know, I don't know.
Now, now I sound like, you know, unwoke dad.
AlexI truly think you, I haven't seen anyone say that.
MerlinOh, come on.
AlexAre you kidding me? That's like a joke I would make.
MerlinLike you get a different internet, you get a different internet. I get a different chicken problem.
AlexI do. Well, when again, when a man gets up in in front of Congress and says, you know what a woman is? Two X chromosomes, no tally whacker. And then is seen getting his dick rubbed by his best friend and then humping his cousin's face. Yes, it's it's funny. I think it's funny.
MerlinIt's just horseplay. Just car pranks, man.
AlexYeah.
MerlinGuys I do car pranks with.
Alexthat scene and the the scene in veep with the the bathroom scene in veep should just oh my god
Merlinevery show notes document uh there's another there's one that always i forget about there's one thing i always i love all the scenes at the restaurant that the family goes to and i love that that becomes like a we're talking here about righteous gemstones the family like you like one of the first scenes in the whole show is when they go to the restaurant and like on sundays and And then you also see them in the flashback going to the restaurants. And it keeps going forward. But it's wonderful because it's almost always a very funny scene because it involves a bunch of people stuck together around a table drinking iced tea and playing out.
You know what it would be in a Shakespeare? But in an old play about royalty, it would all take place in court with one person sitting on a throne and everybody tearing at each other as the court gathers. And they vie for status. But there's several of those where Danny McBride, there's one, I think, where he's talking to TJ.
Or, sorry. No, I can't stop doing it now. BJ. There's one where he's talking to BJ.
AlexI didn't catch that, I thought.
MerlinOh, no. Remember, somebody keeps, oh, I think it's Uncle Baby Billy, starts calling in TJ.
AlexYeah, yeah.
MerlinAnd then, like, yeah. Uncle Baby Billy.
AlexNow I have to go watch it.
MerlinBut I'll try and fight it. But there's one scene where Danny McBride, he's either talking to Kelvin, he's talking to a lower status character. It's like Kelvin or BJ. And he just, something my kid and I, we're watching the show and we'll just look at each other and go, whatever they, whoever they were in those flashbacks, in that, especially the first season flashback, whoever they were, they are exactly the same today.
AlexMm-hmm. Yeah.
MerlinEven though you got, you know, You make sex and you got big lady underpants where the string goes up your crack. You got boobs. Whatever it is, all that stuff, that may be different, but they are still exactly the same in terms of how they act, the selfishness, the ugliness. And what is it? It makes a bird Twitter? Is that what it is?
Chicken McDonald's.
AlexOh, God.
MerlinAnyway, that's a lot of insight. We should probably get going with something here. Oh, wait. So did you have anything else from your – well, no, it's almost an hour. Did you have something else from the – what else is in the document? Oh, did you want to talk about your square food or we'll save that for later?
AlexOh, we'll save that for – it'll be in show notes. The square – I believe it's literally called – it's the square –
MerlinWhere did I get this stuff? How did I get it? The square at. Oh, and that's what made me think of it. I just saw the domain began with square when you texted this to me. So we're talking here about that weird square food that I'm pretty sure I've eaten.
AlexOh, literally called square eating.
MerlinWell, read it again.
AlexWell, should I square at? Should I pronounce the square at?
MerlinIt doesn't say square E.
AlexWhere's the square at?
MerlinWell, I would allow squariat.
AlexSo you've had squariat? Oh, wow.
MerlinI saw square and I saw at. Both made me think of Jack Dorsey. And then I got mad because I started thinking about the at symbol. That's why I wrote it down. I'm not going to look this up. How did this – we didn't do this for – I feel like we did this for a challenge.
AlexWe might have, but I wasn't able to –
MerlinWas it a sponsor and they sent this to me? How have I eaten this? Did I not eat it?
AlexI don't know. Like, I feel like at this point I remember you –
MerlinMaybe just – maybe Max just was making fun of me. This feels like a Max.
AlexNo, I remember because I was trying to find –
MerlinSince Roman times. I never got my smaltz.
AlexI'm so sad I haven't gotten my smaltz.
MerlinOh, they still haven't fulfilled that, huh?
AlexNo, no, I'm never going to see those 50 euros that I spent on an Indiegogo. That's okay. I think I, you know what, I'll try to find it in my massive show doc thing I'm making.
MerlinI swear to God, I did a search on the domain name in Gmail and I couldn't find anything. If I couldn't find anything about it in Gmail, then I don't know how it would ever enter my life. but um so this is we're not talking about what this is are we talking about this we're cutting this out are we talking about this it's a square of food it looks like a charcoal briquette made
Alexof baby food and one day i will eat this i'm gonna try to eat it that that's all that's all um challenge yeah transition oh one of my favorites you're really good at that
MerlinThe challenge this week is kind of off the back of several conversations. Well, really also having a challenge that we could do when Alexander was partly out of town. I think of it as being allied with the energy project.
AlexAnd not carrying the ball.
MerlinAnd like, I mean, so I wrote it down as take a break. I think you maybe said take a mini vacation. But I take it to mean, well, Alex is going to go to Wisconsin. But also, I, of course, because you know I love the functional component, the philosophical component, is to think about operationalizing the energy project and getting better at finding mini vacations, whatever that means to you.
I have some mostly philosophical thoughts. But you went – you already said this. You can cut this out. Dells. Wisconsin Dells.
AlexYeah, I went to the Wisconsin Dells and to...
MerlinWhat is a Dell? Is a Dell like a meadow? Or an AJ?
AlexIt's a lake next to... Wisconsin Dells is like this...
MerlinYou went and stood in a lake. Is that safe for the kids? No, no, no.
AlexNo, I went to an indoor water park for three days, and it was...
MerlinWisconsin D-E-L-L?
AlexYeah, I think so.
MerlinThat'd be a great name for a minor league baseball team.
AlexYeah, I feel like there are two types of people in America. There are some who are like, how the fuck does Merlin not know every intricate detail about the Wisconsin Dells? And then people who are like, what the fuck is Alex talking about?
MerlinWhich, I mean, is the majority of people. Smash them, MagiC. Yeah, that's true.
AlexHappily in the middle of that diagram. Fat man fell on the ice. I guess it's like a Midwest, not a Midwest Vegas, but like a mid, like if all the roads.
MerlinI think Wisconsin Dells is technically, it's a city in, if my memory serves, in Southern Wisconsin.
AlexYeah.
MerlinIt lies on a river. I want to say the Wisconsin River, maybe, in a region of glacier carved sandstone formations. Is that what I'm thinking of?
AlexOh, okay. Maybe.
MerlinWell, the other thing, the second thing is it's numerous theme parks and entertainment centers include Noah's Ark Water Park. And Mount Olympus. Wow, there's a lot of clashing mythologies here.
AlexThere are many, many. Yep. And then there's Kalahari, the problematic resort.
MerlinThat's fried squid.
AlexWhat? Oh, is that what it is? Really? I thought it was a desert.
MerlinNo, Kalahari. Wait, is that Japanese mountain? It's a motorcycle. Sex thing? Sex thing?
AlexWhat?
MerlinNo. Kalahari? Oh, Kalahari's a mountain?
AlexI think. I truly don't know.
MerlinIs Kalahari one of the renamed mountains? How we call Mount McKinley something else now?
AlexNo. Oh, God. Are they Pluto-ing mountains now?
MerlinThey're Pluto mountains. Well, it's overdue if you ask me. Kalahari, it's not calamari. Mon calamari are the squid guys in Star Wars. I think Admiral Ackbar is a mon calamari, which is also a way of saying, I think, in Italian, that's a my squid. Mon calamari.
AlexYou won't make fun of Madison Cawthorn for being probably a sad gay.
MerlinThank you.
AlexBut we went to the Wilderness Lodge and Resort.
MerlinOh, was Noah's Ark booked?
AlexNo, no, no, no. It's one of these places. Have you never been to a place that is just like all indoor water park, but like designed to feel like an outdoor water park?
MerlinNo, but I mean, like this is going to sound mean, and I don't mean to be mean.
AlexOh, be mean.
MerlinWell, no, it's like Steppen in particular. But like I this this reminds me of something like what I understand to be the big bass store pyramid in Memphis. This seems like one of those like, OK, so if Atlantic City is Las Vegas, Junior, these kind of seem like Las Vegas, the third like family.
AlexYeah, exactly. Midwest family.
MerlinThat's even worse.
AlexYep. Yep. Yep.
MerlinOh, Mall of America. Does that count?
AlexOh, it's even worse than that.
MerlinI listened to a very good episode of Causology by John Chigi the other day that was about an indoor roller coaster at a mall that crashed. And it was very, very sad. Because nobody should be at a mall that much.
Do you like engineering failure shows? Do you like that? No, no. Oh, you should listen. It's really good. John Chigi interviewed me like a person for one of his non-strictly engineering shows. And it was really good. I like John Chigi. but you should listen to his show it's like what's that Malcolm Gladwell network show that I used to like where they stick all the things in the podcast feed
AlexI forget
Merlinnot causality but failure mode you know the one I mean yeah I subscribe but John Chizgy's causality is still very good and it's much geekier it's almost like a Dr. Drang post it's really good
AlexOh, I will need to I know I've listened to the episode with you
MerlinHe talked about the conflagration at the Beverly Hills Supper Club in 1978 or 9 where my aunt and uncle had been there I think the day before or that evening
AlexOh my
MerlinYeah, Beverly Hills Supper Club A lot of things went wrong, they weren't listening to the waiters Always listen to the waiters
AlexOh, indeed
MerlinMan Calamari
AlexI just this challenge was an epic fail. Matt wanted to go to Waterpark for his birthday. And I was like, you know what? I'm game. Let's do it. And I thought, OK, I don't like normally I think that like vacations don't work.
MerlinYou know, John Syracuse calls that a vacation. I don't call that a vacation.
AlexI know. I mean, yeah. Like, I don't enjoy being in a bathing suit. I don't enjoy being in a dirty, dirty hotel.
MerlinAnd I sound like a very bitchy snob. No, no, no, Alex. Alex, did you ever really think about the water? You know, can I tell you some things that have been in that water? A lot of feet. Okay.
AlexLots of feet.
MerlinA lot of, hang on. I'm really got to walk this with me.
AlexGo on.
MerlinWhat if somebody said to you, would you like to spend a day with indoor foot soup? You'd probably go, well, at least it's not outside. That's nice. But you say, well, hang on. What if I told you, you take that beautiful, beautiful children's story stone soup, and now more than just feet in this, there's also butts and pee.
There's the atrocious penis of half the people who are in there. That's in the water. And now you get in that soup, and you should swim in it.
AlexOr, you know what would be even better?
MerlinThat I mentioned everyone's in a bathing suit.
AlexYep. And that there are professional lifeguards who are about 14 years old. And they, middle of the day, end up yelling out code.
MerlinHey, mister, fix your trunks. You're hanging brain.
AlexI, I, I.
MerlinNo dogs allowed.
AlexThe second day we were there, we were really excited. because the outdoor water park had opened because it was really like super, it was like in the freaking 90s and it was like, oh, yay, cool. This seems a little bit more sanitary. And then we hear Code Brown and that's exactly what you think it is. And, yep.
MerlinThey need a better code name for that.
AlexFor the rest of the day. Yep.
MerlinThat's not Cody at all.
AlexNope, nope. So, yeah.
MerlinLike the new system, attention all employees there is definitely not poop in the pool repeat definitely not
Alexeverything's fine they have codes they have codes where my wife works and i and i got afraid i was got scared on a water slide oh no i'm sorry i got scared on a water slide you sound nine it's so cute no i was like oh this will be fun i'm like holy shit no water slides a lot water slides man that
Merlinshit has come a long way when i was a kid you would get this foam mat and ride down this thing that was honestly like stuccoed concrete now of course and then like by 1982 it was better but but like these are these tubes these are legit slides because i mean and of course i'm trying to avoid thinking of the tragedy of action park but like these are like high thrill rides right you don't even like being in a car that much
Alexno I do not don't you get motion
MerlinI'm sorry my spacing you get tummy ickies from motion don't you is that just Syracuse you don't get that
Alexno well I did this time but out of fear
Merlinthinking about the feet
Alexwell and because I have seen the documentary about Action Park too many times
MerlinI keep thinking about the loop
Alexgetting a bloody nose oh my god and it's it's it's a very there were a lot of people um having fun and enjoying each other's company and it was i'm very yeah i mean no shade no
Merlinlemonade i'm not yucking on a yum if you enjoy doing that it's just that just know that when you tell me we're going to the the park i'm i am thinking about all the body parts that have been cooking in that water here's the thing a lot of people don't know alex see i don't know how this exactly came to be but for my entire life you get at the pool you go to the pool earlier whatever and you smell that chlorine that intense chlorine smell my whole life i have believed and i think i have been told oh they just cleaned the pool and that's why you smell so much chlorine right now nope i heard it's not that's not true tell me tell me why you smell it now it's because it's
working hard it had to work extra hard because there's so much pee in the pool that you can now
Alexsmell the chlorine. Yep. Yep. The stronger the chlorine smell, the harder it's working.
MerlinYeah, it's like hearing sirens coming towards you can cause different reactions for different sorts of people. Sometimes you think, oh good, they're about to go arrest the black man. And the black man goes, oh no, I think they're coming to arrest me. The chlorine smell is not your friend.
Step on in. Everybody step on in. Take your shoes off. Come on in. Come on into the wave pool. Or I like to call it the soup zone.
AlexWell, luckily, our friend, founder of Cox's Cucks, Cara Fagan, was along.
MerlinA lot of Cucks zones. Cuck, cuck, cuck, cuck.
AlexCuck, cuck, cuck, cuck, cuck.
MerlinCara. Cut that, cut that, cut that.
AlexCut that, cut that.
MerlinShe's the woman.
AlexCara Fagan was with us, and they-
MerlinI don't think we say that anymore.
AlexNo. it's funny because whenever she uh goes um like like on flights you know how they uh shorten
Merlinyour last name when oh no you get three letters up on the board yep oh no
Now, let me ask you a question. And I think I understand what you're saying here because you sound a lot – make it about me. Like when I tried to say to John Syracuse, the whole thing where we started arguing about vacations, I think the genesis of that – obviously one genesis of that is I know that John loves his family trips to the Long Island, looks forward to it, gets a camera, takes photos, all that kind of stuff. And I was trying to make the case, like long before I pushed that poor woman, I was saying the week that we went to Washington while school was in session was not a vacation.
That's how the whole thing started. I said, no, no, I'm mostly there to hang out with my kid while my wife does work stuff. And we came along. He said, that's a vacation, right? And I'm probably misstating it, but I was like, that's not a vacation. And then the idea of spending even just nine days in New England with family, whom I love, I'll do that for a thing, but that's not a vacation. Don't call that a vacation.
AlexIf I get to do stuff and be left alone, that's a vacation.
MerlinIf I have to go do what other people want and I'm not left alone, it is prima facie and not a vacation.
AlexI think, though, when you say family vacation, most people know what you – it's like the wink and a nod.
MerlinIt's like family colonoscopy.
AlexYes.
MerlinJust because it has family in front of it doesn't mean it's fun.
AlexExactly. That's the –
MerlinPrescription vacation.
AlexI'm mostly doing a bit.
MerlinYeah, I understand.
AlexIt was fun to hang out. Matt, I know you're listening, and we had thought, like, oh, God, though, the last, oh, my, I'll put, maybe I'll put this on the internet. The last day, we played at the, like, we spent all day in a filthy, filthy arcade, and it was perfect and wonderful.
MerlinOh, that's nice.
AlexI love the ripoff. It's just a total ripoff in a scam, but I played in this filthy, filthy VR contraption thing for like an hour.
MerlinProbably cleaner than that pool.
AlexOh, God, it was so honest.
MerlinYep, yep. I'm sorry. I'm at sixes and sevens, and my brain is stupid today, and I apologize. But for example, we're developing a weird, not quite a relay level, but we're developing a taxonomy on Rectifs, We've got our check-ins. We've got our results, like vacation results, sleep check-ins, follow-up, all those things. But like I bristled at wanting to talk when John was like, so how did your vacation in Washington, D.C. go? A listener might recall that I was like, that wasn't a vacation.
Like don't expect me to give you like what I did on vacation report to you because that was a family trip that we took. Right? So like – but I certainly didn't want to have to go like, oh, tell me about the fun stuff you did. So what you're describing here is like, well, you tell me if you can, is it that you ended up because of circumstance and various matters, including birthdays and children and stuff, you kind of – see, I'm sorry, Matt. I don't mean something. Were you a go-along-get-along person? You didn't really get to carve out what you would consider vacation-y things?
Or did you not have an opportunity to exercise the skills that we've been talking about? Is that what you mean?
AlexThat is what I mean, because I knew exactly going into this, I knew exactly what it was.
MerlinIt's not your party. It's not your party. You can't pick the music.
AlexExactly. And I am bitching about a thing that I was totally game for.
MerlinNo, but it's in the context of the challenge, Alex. Calm down, Matt.
AlexOh, no, no, no.
MerlinNo, no, no. Sorry. Don't calm down, Matt. Sorry.
AlexI was trying. What I'm saying is I was going with your Phyllis. oh wow this is a great bit for the uh alex talking doll the the component i'm actually going to try to turn off my brain from the outside world like i experienced this right
Merlinstuff like stuff like practicing like one of mine that's a new thought technology is practicing being on vacation before you're on vacation like fully inhabiting that you're on vacation before you've left. Don't wait till you've arrived at your destination to start, you know, and which of course means then also in front of the pretending to be on vacation part while you're at home, you have to then proceed that with the planning part that keeps the demon dogs at bay. But to eventually like get into the mode, but it's so
Alexhard to do. Yeah, and that's why it was a challenge.
MerlinDid you just drive? Did you drive there?
AlexYou drive there, right? Yes, and this is actually something that, the one part where I think I did it right, but it needs some tweaks.
MerlinOh, please, please, please, Phil. I want to hear.
AlexWell, driving, people have different feelings about driving. I was happy that we didn't have to take a plane somewhere.
MerlinOh, shit, yes.
AlexOh, God, I've even gotten to the part where in Wisconsin-
MerlinGreg was just talking about that the other day, and I was just saying, he was saying I can plan a car trip across the entire United States, but doing the stuff involved to get on one flight. And I was like, the stakes feel so much higher. There's so much more stress involved, to me anyway, for myself. There's so much more stress involved with flights for all the reasons and all the unobvious reasons. All the obvious reasons are it's a shit show to get on a fucking plane. This ain't the Don Draper period anymore. It's not fun to do anything that involves getting to a plane, let alone every single part of that.
If everything goes flawlessly, it sucks to fly. And you are something I realized a few years ago that was instrumental, didn't make me happy, but instrumental to understanding, is that from the time mostly that you leave your house and you get picked up by a cab and then a bunch of things happen. And then you get out of another cab, you know, in another state. Every single thing that happens in between, you have next to zero agency. You have no way. You have no control, really.
You have very, very little control over anything apart from do you want like the small French fries or the large French fries when you're at the layover. But, you know, before you even get to the flight delays, before you even get to like seat problems, before you even get to like, oh, God, that guy who masturbated on a flight a couple weeks ago. That was wild.
AlexWhat?
MerlinOh, I'll find it. I'll find it. Give us your fucking money.com. I'll find it on our break. But, you know, but like really I was like, why is it? Why does it feel so stressful to fly? Well, I'm an anxious person. Sure. I don't know if I ever mentioned that. But it's that from, like, when I say nose to tail, like every single aspect. I mean, even if let's say you drive to the airport. Well, it's still stressful to get to the airport. If you're like me or Syracuse, you're two or three hours early just because you don't want anything to go wrong. And at every single step, you have some combination of zero power.
Agency and power. What's the difference? It's like, well, I don't have agency to direct decision making for what I'd like to do differently. I think of that as agency. Agency to me is like I can decide to do things differently. Power means I can't do things differently. I can't just decide, hey, look, you know, it's obvious this flight is going to get canceled. Can you just please cancel it? Well, they're not going to cancel it because that's a stat that's going to hurt them. And they're going to hold off as long as they can. Then you've got to fucking sleep overnight in Michigan. Like, even the, like, just the prospect of all of that makes my shoulders reach higher than my ears, Alex.
Go all the way up. And so no agency to decide differently. No power to do differently. And almost nobody, the resources are not there to really help you at any stage. So, you know, you're standing there in line for something, trying to get a flight, like, rescheduled. I feel exactly, I find it incredibly stressful. I'd rather be in a car. Well, I'm just venting a lot today, aren't I?
AlexNo. Well, this is me.
MerlinWe should stop traveling is what I'm saying. We should all just go where we are. You know, it's a lot. 150 people. You got a fire. You drag a woman around by her hair, hit her with a club. Just like Fred Flintstone. That's what God wanted. You know, if God wanted us to roller skate, you know, he would have put wheels on our feet.
Spaceships don't come equipped with rearview mirrors. you know what I'm saying
Alexthat's it
Merlinno it's not I have been my version of real quick but it was nice to see the babies was it nice to see the babies
Alexwait what
Merlinoh no
Alexthis was purely this was purely just me matt and cara so that matt could yeah no it's it's and i thought it'd
Merlinbe super weird because it is this completely changes everything okay all right oh oh so it's just kind of uh just a fun fun guys night you guys are gonna go do guys it was a quickie yeah it was like a quickie like in and out um now i understand matt's birthday thing okay cool all
Alexright all right yes but but what was fun and but this is i it's not part of the vacation component like why I had a delightful week wow weekend was seeing my two best two of my best friends like very very happy Matt and Kara just getting to be yeah and out of the day out of the day-to-day
Merlinenvironment y'all get to re-experience each other outside of I mean it sounds corny but it can be really nice to be with people you love someplace different than where you always are and and
Alexbasically he like the uh thing that is is obvious to me but probably not obvious to everybody is like he got to experience this as a guy versus having to always.
MerlinI was about.
AlexYep.
MerlinWhen we finished, I was going to ask you to stop hitting, to stop recording because I wanted to ask about that.
AlexYeah. Oh, no. Like we're, hey, go to twoheadedgirl.com.
MerlinNo, but I mean like I just, oh, man. God. I mean on the one hand, like at sixes and sevens, on the one hand it's so gutsy to like go through and do and become yourself like that, but then to get to do that, and it's so thrilling. Just by extension, it's so thrilling to me that he gets to do that. See, now I'm going to cry. It makes me really happy. No, it's so nice, and I didn't even say happy birthday. What a piece of shit I am.
AlexI forgot his birthday was yesterday, and I forgot. I completely, 100%, literally forgot.
MerlinI totally forgot Mother's Day, and I really heard about it.
AlexOh, boy. Hi, everybody.
MerlinWe love all of you.
AlexFoot soup, foot soup.