192. Leather Bottom

MerlinThings are so odd right now. This is not meant to be any kind of anything, but like, it's been so wild to watch the evolution of the whole statue toppling story. Where first it was like, yeah, take down the slave sculpture. Like, yeah, totally. Throw that man in the water. That's terrible. Then you get to like, well, you know, Teddy Roosevelt's on a horse with the slave. Okay, well, you know, fair enough. Let's get rid of that. And then what happened last night? A abolitionist, like an abolitionist hero statue taken down.

They're just taking them all down now.

Speaker AWait, I didn't see this one. I haven't caught up on the news yet from the last, you know, 10 hours.

MerlinYeah. I mean, I just, it's a crazy time.

Speaker AEvery day I wake up and then I try to figure out if we've entered World War III or something. And then if we haven't, then I like have breakfast. and then I go back to checking all the news.

MerlinI used to always wonder, as somebody who grew up in the 80s in constant fear of nuclear war, I've always wondered how in these evolving times, you go through the internet, you get into social media, and today I'm pretty sure I'm going to find out that we're all about to die by having to look at Twitter moments and trending topics. and it's just going to be that same animated gif of uh denzel washington and everybody's gonna be

like oh i thought i came here because i saw the earth trending i figured it had died and it had anyway enjoy this denzel washington gif one more time oh my god apocalypse is trending

Speaker Auh apocalypse apocalypse is over party oh my god i hate that that's probably true apocalypse is happening party.

MerlinYeah, right, exactly. Thanks to the K-pop stans.

Speaker AThere's so much happening all the time. And that's all I have to say about that. Actually, that's the end of, that's the full sentence.

MerlinSend tweet. People used to say time is the thing that keeps everything from happening at once. And I'm not sure time is working right now because it does seem more.

Speaker AThere's a breakdown in that system somewhere.

MerlinI feel like, yeah. And then, you know, Quinn, you know, we still got the virus. I don't know if you know about the virus, the novel.

Speaker AOh, I'm aware.

MerlinAre you aware? Okay. Okay.

Speaker AI feel like that the less the world becomes, or not the world, America becomes concerned, the more I do. And now I'm living at like peak anxiety all the time.

MerlinYeah. Yeah. I have a family member who is a several months pregnant nurse in Arizona. oh my god i'm sorry i mean yeah it's it's pretty wild no you know every step of the way for so long it has really felt like it's something my friend john roderick says this sounds snooty but maybe it is but you know this is not a great time to be a smart person because there's there's a lot

to try to rationally put together that is obviously totally irrational or irreconcilable right so like it's just it's just so wild like i'm usually that person who punishes himself by watching and listening to like a ton of trump rallies i don't know why i do it but i do but the one in arizona yesterday with like all the kids the turning point one did you hear about that yeah yeah yeah and basically it was all these like the highlight one of the highlights many

highlights don jr just being so sweaty about how much he loves his dad but also like there was this one girl who came up and said the cancellation of, you know, Aunt Jemima is racist because, you know, she's this iconic character. The messaging from, which company is that? The company that makes Aunt Jemima products. The messaging has for a long time been, well, hey, you know, this person, this woman in Chicago, I think she was born a slave, but yeah, I think she lived in Chicago. And she, you know, became a millionaire. And the truth

She was a philanthropist. But I would be very, very surprised to learn that she was that well-paid in the 1920s for any variety of reasons.

AlexYeah.

MerlinI mean, you know, try working for Condé Nast, let alone being the black lady on the pancake box.

Speaker AI don't understand how you can watch the Trump rallies and that ilk. When I hear his voice, it causes me physical pain. And I try to stay informed, but I'll read it. I won't listen or watch.

MerlinYeah. Same experience here with my wife where like, you know, when you're in a dyad such as ours, all along through the whole COVID thing, it's just been like who can present the other person with the more upsetting thing. Oh, no. When we catch up in the morning, the afternoon, or, you know, evening, it'll be like, oh, did you see this? And, you know, we just keep, I think, I think it becomes a form of black humor and almost like not exactly self-soothing, but like, I'm not crazy, right? This is as crazy as it seems, right?

When you're, you and your partner share these kinds of things and you share your extremely dark thoughts that you would never share with other people. But I'll be like, you got to see this. You got to see when he raises the glass of water and then he has to put his little hand under it to hold it up. And she's like, I can't, please, please. We're laying, we're laying in bed like, you know, like Charlie Bucket's grandparents. And we're just laying there in the afternoon looking at the phone.

She's looking at her phone. I'm looking at my phone. She is looking at what my daughter and I have come to call sad Twitter. because her mother seems to always find the saddest things. She's like our little household Debbie Downer. But she can't hear his voice like yourself, you know?

Speaker AYeah.

MerlinBut, you know, for me, so the point of saying that was like, oh, boy, Arizona, yikes. You really want to, where are you going to go next? You know, I mean, I guess Texas, you go to Florida, all the hot spots. but it was that I was the rare time where I had to turn it off and then I saw the coverage by Daniel Dale the guy who's I don't know if he's officially the fact checker but he's the chronicler of truths and untruths in the president's world and what a horrible thankless job he watches every

one of these goddamn things and he just he just relentlessly posts for us to say well for the 114th time the president has said that tariffs on China are paid by China. This is not true. They're paid by American consumers. It's like for, you know, for the 7,016th time, he said he closed the border with China very early. That's what he does all day. And I'm like, I don't know how you do that job without losing your goddamn mind.

Speaker AConsidering that is like the one activity I actively avoid doing. It couldn't be me. but it's yeah that's such a thankless job especially at this point because it's like you know if you're going to believe him you're going to believe him and if you're not going to

Merlinbelieve him you're not going to believe him it's it's so true it's so true like it was one thing in a time when we thought this was anomalous and weird um it would seem very valuable to say ha ha we caught you in a lie and you could do the classic john stewart thing i john stewart didn't invent this, but I think he did a very good job of here's this person saying one thing, and then here's this person saying another thing. And it was almost always, you know, it was like the sort of Mitch McConnell style. This is advantageous for me to say in this situation, but then say the

opposite of in that situation, right? Like nominating Supreme Court justice. It all really depends on who the president is, right? But now it's like, it just makes you feel crazier. You're like yeah it's another it's another total lie you know he talked about his shoes for 15 minutes

Alexi agree with everything that has been said and i have been here the whole time

Merlinare you are you a leather bottom alexandra oh like a shoe never mind anyway welcome back welcome to the show hi alex may you live in interesting times

Speaker Acan i share a piece of good news at the top of the show yes please please god hey everybody

Merlinsorry real quick everybody this is quinn rose uh quinn is our producer and very good friend and quinn is joining us today hi quinn thank you for joining us hi thanks for having me give me

Speaker Agood news for us please my good news is uh shelters are open for appointment again so in a

Merlincouple weeks i will have a cat yay for permanence for her forever i was supposed to get one a couple

Speaker Amonths ago but then I didn't because there was a pandemic and there's still one but now that we can get cats so that's at least I will have a friend have you met it no I don't have a specific one I've like I'm uh adopting out of this shelter that has like dozens of cats and then I sent them a bunch of information and they're I'm gonna come into appointment and like meet a couple that they think would fit with me and then I'll pick one to bring home it's kind of like going to a car

Alexdealership really they're like what can i do to get you to take home a black cat today because

Merlinanything i want a black cat so much oh i love black cat it's such a hassle and like i've been following uh powell mine in la uh the wonderful uh allison agosti i think you pronounce her name i've known her for 10 years and i still don't know how to say her name but she just adopted two puppies and she's been going she's following fostering she's fostering but she's been talking about like how hard it is like who do you who do you have to know to adopt an animal because it's cool that there's so many precautions to make sure that it's going to be a safe environment and all

that kind of stuff but it reminds me a little bit of something i read yesterday on political twitter where someone said um in america it takes less time to buy a gun than it does to vote i feel like that about it like we want to adopt a dog but it has to be a whole thing and things have to be signed and the landlord has to approve and you just you have to like i don't know what

Alexkidnap a dog i don't know i am shocked that people have this problem because i just keep acquiring animals accidentally and i i don't i don't want a dog i don't want more cats i don't want a dragon but somebody on this show has a bearded dragon that has made my spouse really excited about the idea of having reptiles in our home so alex it's a perfect pet it's a perfect pet

MerlinI know.

AlexIt seems like it.

MerlinYou know what? For your space, it's a big tank. You're probably not allowed to have a tank in the facility.

AlexI'm not allowed to have any nice things here.

MerlinBut it's so cute. He's peeling right now. He's shedding. And his tail's coming off like a big ice cream cone. It's really cute.

AlexSo is it like molting? Like proper? Yeah.

MerlinOh. They lose big hunks a couple times a year. And then we put this special stuff into his bath water. And we give him a bath. And he gets in there and goes, hmm. And then that helps him shed. It helps him finish his shedding.

AlexDo you eat it afterwards?

MerlinI want to so much.

AlexYeah, yeah.

MerlinI want to so much.

AlexI imagine that it's kind of like a placenta situation where you crush it into a little pill and then, you know.

MerlinYeah, I think the placenta is more like some kind of like a jellyfish. This is more like, you know, eczema or something. Get it all off in one big piece.

Speaker AThat sounds like it'd be an ingredient in witchcraft.

AlexQuinn, are you aware about all of the brain things that can go wrong with your brain once you get a cat and start cleaning up its shit?

Wait, what?

MerlinI'll take that as a no. Alexandra, you really need to tell our friend Quinn about what she's in store for.

AlexUm, you, so, so in cat poop, there are little brain controlling particles, um, that eventually will teach you to basically submit to the cat. And I am maybe not using real science C words, but that's basically the consensus.

Merlinconsensus. I think this is true and I think you're not that far off. But for example, Quinn, do you know about stuff like zombie ants? You know about where an animal can totally mess with another animal and turn it into its unintentional what's a non-problematic word for this? Zombie pal title. So what happens is you get the cat and the cat poops. And the cat doesn't care. It's just pooping. It's just making poop. But what happens is Because, postposably, the toxoplasmosis gets into the human mind and makes it not mind the poop being around, which then produces more of the toxoplasmosis.

And then the music goes around. And then pretty soon, you're more shit than apartment.

Speaker AYep.

MerlinOkay. Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Speaker AHave you really not heard about this? You've been editing this show for years. I've heard about this vaguely, but I've never heard it laid out in such terms before.

MerlinMaybe you should get some kind of like a, I don't know how you put it. Like somebody, it's only like get a sponsor in AA. Maybe you could get somebody who you agree should speak truth to power and like keep you honest. And if you do turn into a, God forbid, a cat, you know, person, they'll be there to make sure there's not poop accumulating in the corner. You know what I'm saying? Get yourself a kind of a cat auditor in advance.

Speaker AHonestly, all this sounds fine to me. I feel very confident in my ability to continue cleaning up the poop. So if the cat wants to like take me as its minion, that's fine, I guess.

AlexOh, that's definitely going to happen no matter what. Trust me. That's.

MerlinYeah, I'm very impressionable.

AlexMan, I hate my Internet.

MerlinSpeaking of your domicile there, Alexandra, do you want to give us any updates on how things are going with your corn?

AlexWell, well, well, I just sent you a picture because I'm like. sure did right right that's right toxoplasmosis is similar to what happens in ants i don't know if i've told both of you but my apartment is infested with ants um well no just one half of it is infested with ants and flying ants i think they got all of them i think well here's the thing uh many of them were flying two days ago now most of them are in the bottom of my vacuum

and still couldn't. Well, we got a hold of the landlord today, but for a while we're like, well, we can't leave because the ants are just, they are marching in. Fala, fala, whatever that is. And the cats weren't killing them. The cats are awesome at killing most anything that comes into the apartment, including people I don't enjoy.

And I'm wondering, did they brainwash the cats? Have the ants been here all along? Like, I just don't know. I'm very upset. But this is just a minor situation with our aunts. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Wow. Yep, I didn't get close enough in there. But, yep, those are all flying. Nope. Nope. Oh, boy. Well, I'm glad that I am in a bedroom that has a towel underneath the door. So, oh, boy.

MerlinIs that vinegar? What did you put? What did you? What's in those bowls or dishes?

AlexWell, night number one, we panicked because it's like, oh, borax is supposed to kill ants. Sure. What the fuck is borax? Isn't that what we use to make slime? I guess, but I threw that away.

MerlinI thought that was for roaches.

AlexI have no idea. There are so many.

MerlinWhen a roach eats borax, it makes their tummy explode.

AlexYeah. I mean, well, and then there's people who are like, oh, don't worry. It's fine for pets. There's no unsafe dose. But I'm like, I don't want to put like dishwasher stuff. So what we did was just put a melted popsicle in a bowl And that seemed to trap most of them the first night And then Do you want ants?

MerlinNo, it's interesting It's like what they say about fighting fire with fire In this case

AlexIt worked really well

MerlinThe ants that are very attracted to the sugar Ha ha, I know how weak of them Let's put out more sugar

AlexNo, it worked really well

MerlinThey seemed to like the cherry

Alexit was it was cherry because that's my last favorite flavor and that's so we had a fun

Merlinso uh hey wait a minute oh my god wait a minute are you sure matthew actually has always liked cherry or have the ants finally gotten to him oh my god you got an anti-anti-poxmosis situation here. Must go buy more cherry popsicles that I enjoy.

AlexAnd then it's like an ant apartheid because the ants are sending the ones who are going to drown to get the popsicle and then there's the flying ones who just nibble on the part that isn't melted yet and they can fly away.

MerlinWorst door well novel ever. Ant form. That's funny. Oh god.

AlexMay live in interesting times. I don't know. But what you're seeing is about $150 of ant traps plus melted sugar in a bowl, which seems to be the only thing that's actually working.

MerlinOh, my God. I've used these before. If they're the ones that I think they are. See, we used to be into what are called Grant's Ant Steaks. Here I said ant, not aunt. Grant's Ant Steaks. And they're the things, the little spikes that you can stick into your yard. You've seen them. Those gray pointy things with like a little chamber and it's very tidy.

AlexOh, yes.

MerlinThe ones you've got here are much more medieval. These are the ones that I think they have an entire like weird lobster trap sort of thing where they walk in through a little door and like slide into a goop that you can see. So you can watch them accumulate. That's what these are, right?

AlexOh, no, no. um maddie has has handled literally all of it because the night that they started to um congeal i guess oh god uh he just turned to me and said and i had not seen anything you need to go into the bedroom right now and close the door it will be fine take the cat and so i went in and i was like oh my god um definitely my dog my grandparents and um everybody i i know is dead just everybody's

dead.

MerlinOh, I see. Is there any phrase where it would have been useful for Matthew to say a certain phrase before you were sent

Alexinto the bedroom? It was the tone. It was the tone of like, don't.

MerlinI think the phrase, you are not in trouble, would have been useful in that context.

AlexOh, but I was in trouble. I was in so much trouble. Because of the ants. There was one on my leg, Merlin. There was one on my leg. You need that for your

Merlinwork.

Speaker BOh. Oh.

MerlinYou ever been in a house with fleas?

AlexYes.

MerlinWe, after college, you know, all through college, I moved constantly. And then after college, I had no money and no sort of monetary backboard. So I would go wherever I could and live wherever I could. And my friend, I think it was Jamie and Dan and I rented this place. And, of course, it was Florida. So it had beautiful wall-to-wall carpeting. And there had been some very flea-ridden dogs that lived there. And you could practically hear the carpeting. Oh, my God. You could see them hopping.

There were so many fleas. It was one of those things where if you were outside, you might get fleas, let alone if you were in the house. And that, okay, mosquitoes are worse, but fleas are almost as bad. It makes you feel completely insane.

AlexOh my god. So you didn't even have an animal in the house? It was just... You were the literal fleabags that brought it in?

MerlinI was the fleabag, and I think those were legacy insects. They kick around for a while, and they're like, Ooh, look at this, recent college graduates. I'll have some ankles, please, and thank you.

Speaker AYum, yum, yum, yum, yum. I just don't have the constitution to deal with these kinds of things. I can't do it. I've started to see some bugs in the apartment now that it's like spring slash summer. They've been very manageable so far. But I also have what's known as a good building manager. So every time I have problems, I say, Maria, help me. And then she sends her boyfriend over and like half an hour later and fixes whatever problem I have.

MerlinOh, my God. This is at the age of 53. That's a sexual fantasy for me. I have absolutely no interest in human flesh, but the idea of having a responsive person who would fix water damage.

AlexOh, my. Yeah. I mean, good old Keith. Like, he really, I admit, he shows up. My landlord just shows up a lot. But not when I want him to.

MerlinRight, right, right, right.

AlexWe had a gas leak emergency. and the emergency was that a gas leak happened somewhere in Chicago.

MerlinOh, wow, that could be you.

Speaker AThat is an emergency.

MerlinThat's like when there's an earthquake in Southern California and all my relatives text me. Are you okay? Yeah, I think so. I don't live in LA, so I'm better than I could be.

Speaker AOh, God. Well, Chicago's a very small town, so you can never be too sure.

AlexExactly. So I was like, thank you, Keith. Thank you. And then looks at the dishwasher and goes.

MerlinWhat's his personality like? Is he flustered? Is he excitable? What's he like?

AlexI would say overenthusiastic but concerned dad. In that we're the people dating his apartment and he's excited but needs to lay down the law of this is my daughter. These are my walls. You are not to hang anything on my walls.

MerlinAs the father of an apartment.

AlexMm-hmm.

MerlinI sent you a picture of Allison's dog. Dog? I sent you a picture of Allison's dog. Oh, hello. Did you see?

Speaker BOh, no.

MerlinThat's George.

Speaker BOh, my God.

MerlinIsn't he perfect? Look at his little feet. Look at his tiny feet. He's so small. He's so small.

Speaker BThe little pink on the paws.

MerlinHe's got two patches on his eyes. he looks like a drawing of a dog

Alexoh his name is George

MerlinGeorge

Alexoh my goodness

Merlinyeah she's waiting for him to wake up so she can put content online she said come on wake up my tiny content creators

Speaker Aoh my god

Merlinoh wait here's another George oh look at his tummy I'm sorry this is not the show oh my god look at his tummy

Speaker Await I just saw the picture of him standing next to the coffee maker He's so small!

MerlinHe's so tiny! Can we start a new show about George?

AlexOh, George!

MerlinOh, look at him.

AlexGod. Precious angel. But I like it when good people... I assume that Allison is a good person, and I want good people to have good things.

MerlinAnd this is a good, good dog. That's a bold, brave statement from you, Alexandra, and I appreciate that.

AlexI know. Thank you. Courage.

MerlinCourage.

Speaker Aquinn how excited are you about the new apple products oh yeah you're pumped oh my god literally on monday i was like hmm didn't realize i agreed to be on dubai friday um i saw some pictures of widgets that look cool that's all i got

Alexit's really good it's really good it's so good in fact quinn i think you should install this on your phone during the program.

MerlinOne of us. One of us.

AlexYeah, yep, yep, yep.

MerlinWhere do you have to go? You know, that's my thought. Yep. I talked about this on another program I do yesterday. It's like in this case, normally I'm a little more advisable, but like for me the trade-off, which sometimes does pay off, is like, you know, it's only a little rule of thumb. Like when do you upgrade your computer? When do you do these things? Well, it's like wait as long as you can until it makes sense and the price is right and is the trade-off there? The inconvenience of having to deal with that and like, oh my God, so far. Again, now I'm going to curse myself and I'm sure beta 2 is going to wreck everything, but it's real good.

Did you put on your iPad and your phone, Alex?

AlexYes. I sacrificed Pokemon Go to install the beta of iOS 14. You are so brave. I am so, I'm making lots of bold and brave statements today.

But like you said, where do I have to go? And so I've just been playing Pokemon Go on my iPad, so everything's okay.

Speaker AWow, they said with the most privilege.

AlexDon't worry, I can still buy my Pokecoins from my gigantic glass.

MerlinNo, listen, I'm stuck at home. I use my other iPad to clean up the ants.

AlexExactly.

MerlinUse another one to eat my lunch off of. I use it for a charcuterie. I'm going to have some sliced up bits of cheese and sausage on this iPad Pro.

AlexI have used it as a coaster before.

MerlinOh, boy. I don't.

AlexYou can clean aluminum better than you can clean wood.

MerlinYou use the actual device, not the case?

Speaker AI am very concerned about this, Deuce.

AlexSo this was sacrifice an iPad or sacrifice the sanity of a grandmother. And I'm like, you know what? I got to choose grandma on this one.

MerlinTell me more about grandma's sanity. What?

AlexWell, no, she didn't have any coasters and was panicking. And I was like, here, just put it on this. And put the iPad face down on a wooden table.

MerlinThis hurts my heart. You're telling me, wait a minute, hang on. I don't mean to get all Columbo on your ass. Let me just make sure I understand what you're saying here. You're telling me that you have a grandmother that does not have coasters?

AlexNo, no, she does. She couldn't find them. And she was panicking.

MerlinShe couldn't find them. That might be the ants talking.

AlexExactly. Exactly. We don't know. I just don't know anymore.

MerlinThat got to me, Mom.

We started a new segment last week. I don't know if this has any legs to it, but the last week we started a new segment called driving with grandma and i was just curious if anybody amongst y'all does anybody have any anecdotes about trying this is not an anti-grandma podcast yet yeah you know what you did me ma do you know what you did anybody got any uh driving with grandma anecdotes quinn well quinn do you

Speaker Adrive with your grandmother often uh well my grandmother lives in maine so not so much anymore but throughout my life and when I am in home in Maine, yes. Oh, really? Hmm. I thought this was a weird thing that only I did. Well, okay. The thing is like I, my home in rural Maine is about half an hour away from anywhere we would want to go. So when I say I go driving with my grandmother, I mean, anytime I go anywhere with my grandmother, it's like at least an hour in a car with her.

MerlinWow. Okay.

AlexWhat is that like? is it sort of a silent serene situation or is it family catch-up time oh well okay so there's

Speaker Athere's two different scenarios if it's just me and my dad um or like just kids and the dad dad at any situation it's usually pretty chill my dad might listen to an audiobook maybe we'll talk a little bit maybe we'll just sit there and listen to music while we do our respective activities his being driving um and if it's my mom in the car we're chatting and catching up and if it's my

Alexgrandmother might be a combination of either god that sounds so pleasant and normal you do not belong here oh wow i have a very nice family i mean i thought i'd

Merlinyeah exactly what do they say comparison is the death of joy i don't even know about how well anybody else is doing right now. I really...

AlexI just, yeah. Phase three. But I often drive with my grandma. This has been like a thing my entire life, but it's also been a thing that my entire family drives together in a large suburban or Escalade. And keep in mind when I say Escalade, I don't mean like the fancy, like blinged out rings. although I'm sure that my grandfather would love that.

But that's like, we literally need a truck to carry the nine people in my immediate family, although eight, nine includes the dog. So I would often end up driving with my grandma because, not gonna lie, I'm the favorite of my grandma.

MerlinThat's so nice. You know that in your heart. You don't even have to think about it. You just know that's the case.

AlexOh yeah. Despite the queerness, despite the being sad and quiet my entire childhood uh no i'm now that i'm saying all these things that's not despite that's because of but uh i spend a lot of time except for this year in florida with her and the there is also a lot of driving in florida not quite 30 minutes but you're on a kind of a highway slash road for like 15 minutes even though you might need to turn

around on that road. It's a very confusing thing that Merlin is much more familiar with, but it's a hellscape, even in the quote, nice parts. And there's one recent experience I had, and my grandma's like, oh, goodness, I think 85 now. And it was last year. And she I was I was driving her actually this it's been a very weird slow transition between like, ah, yes, I guess like, I am now the driver of the family in this situation.

And we parked the car as we were about to go to breakfast. And she says, you know, do you want to be a man? And I'm like, excuse me? Excuse me? And then it ended.

MerlinCan we talk about this after we eat?

AlexI was like.

MerlinI'm suddenly very, very hungry.

AlexOh, God. Outside Sunnyside Cafe. Were you still in the car? Oh, yeah. Still in the car. Had not yet turned off the Josh Groban. It just popped out. And keep in mind, this is when my spouse Maddie is out as trans, starting, transitioning, whatever. And she just was trying so hard to gracefully ask if, basically, like, if I wanted to grow a penis but not knowing how to do it. and like referencing, you know, wow, I mean, Cher, Cher's daughter or son, son has gone so far.

And you know that, ah, Caitlyn Jenner. I just, I just really like all of these people and I want everyone to live their, their lives. Do you want to be a man? And I'm like, uh, okay. Um, existential crisis before my waffle that I get to have once a year. Okay. Okay. And, uh, And that conversation happened for literally a half hour with the air conditioning blasting because it was August in Florida, which is the worst place to be on Earth. But I don't know. My family tends to do that.

Just especially my grandma drop big philosophical problematic bombs. and oh this is also this also happened the other day of um do you ever worry about what your children are going to live like under socialism and i'm like i don't fucking know grandma like oh this however this was not driving in the car with grandma i i was driving um and she was in her her respective home and yeah i i feel like i've taken this into a darker place it's not it's

Merlinlovely but grandparents are fucking weird i mean i'm just looking at it from the outside i'm my head swimming with thoughts one must be that having having that said to you by your grandmother at different points in your life would probably be met with very different responses from you like right now it sounds like you're kind of at a place where you would go like oh i can see how she's trying, right? Kind of? I don't mean to put words in her mouth. Oh yeah, absolutely.

AlexThere was also another incident.

MerlinIt's not like, oh time to educate my 85 year old grandmother. Let me get my chart. No. She cares about you and she wants to make sure you're, you know, I think she's checking in, it sounds like.

AlexOh yeah, I think she's always concerned that I'm going to drive off a cliff. Not with her in it.

MerlinShe probably doesn't

Alexwant that either though. No, I mean, for being honest. Mostly because the car is very nice. But there was another time where she, it was a very similar situation, which we were driving to a mall and she's like, I have a lot of respect for Ellen DeGeneres. And I was not like publicly out at that time. But I'm like, thanks, Grandma. Your

Merlingrandmother sounds like a very, very nice Frank Costanza. Like these all sound like things you could hear like non sequiturs. Like Tommy Toon is very tall. Or like the conversation where Frank gets George a job interview to be a bra salesman. You know about bras? You know about the cup sizes?

AlexVery different.

Speaker AStop. Stop.

MerlinPlease. Please stop that. Please. Please. Please.

Speaker AMy grandmother just last week, I called her. Then I was like, hello. And she goes, hi. And then she goes, oh, LGBTQIA. What are the I and the A?

And like the first thing out of her mouth, because she knew she she had written it clearly written down somewhere. Next time Quinn calls me, I need to ask her this question. And she would forget if she didn't ask you right away. So I just explained them both to her. And she was like, OK, so how are you?

MerlinDid you tell her it stands for introverted and minimalistic?

AlexMerlin, Merlin, do you know what the I and the A are?

Merlinuh i'm gonna say we'll see if i say it i'm probably gonna say it wrong intersex and asexual

Alexwell and yeah and now there's oh boy here we go well actually well actually sorry now it's uh lgbtq i a a um because wait no no no no no no qq i a q no no yes qq i a a Are you trying to give us a code?

MerlinI think you just activated my winner's phone.

AlexOkay, LGBTQQIAA because the extra Q is supposed to be questioning and the extra A is ally.

MerlinCouldn't they style that as a question mark? Would that be more fun?

AlexThat's kind of where I am about now. I kind of like that.

MerlinOr an interrobang. I identify as an interrobang.

AlexI'm more of an ampersand myself.

MerlinYeah, I check in with my kid every month or so. I'll just be sitting there watching Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and I'll just be like, yeah, you still identify as a girl, right? She goes, yep. I go, okay, cool.

AlexWhich I think is appropriate in relationships. I think it's absolutely appropriate. I like yeah I don't know that's great good job not good job

Merlinhey stop pause real quick sorry sorry sorry you Quinn are you hearing robot voice

Alexam I roboting

Merlinis it raining that must mean it's raining my knee hurts and I can't use the internet I don't know if it's raining

AlexI'm gonna hang up and double check to make sure everything's off and then rejoin the call does that work

MerlinYeah, perfect.

Speaker AAll right, bye-bye. Earlier in this conversation, Maddie texted me, have a good recording. And I said, thanks. We're talking about ants because we were. And he said, oh, God, don't remind me. I get to clean them up when I get home.

MerlinOh, no. We just get what here are we call them sugar ants. We're these very, very tiny little ants. And we usually get them when it rains because the slugs and the ants get, you know. So San Francisco has a very strange climate. It doesn't rain a lot. But when it does rain, it rains a lot. Like in the winter, like late winter, like beginning of the year. And that pushes all the little ants out of their underground home. And they're like, hmm, I guess we better find someplace better.

And they somehow make it up to the third story. And you'll see one. You might see two. And then the next time you'll just see like 800.

AlexAh, my nightmare.

MerlinI hate it.

AlexUh-oh, bleep bloop.

MerlinBleep bloop.

AlexHey, what are you seeing 800 of?

MerlinJust how the ants go from like, there's hardly any ants there to I think I saw an ant to oh my god, it's already too late. And now this is the ants house.

AlexYeah. I am not their queen.

MerlinI am. I'm their tenant.

AlexNo.

MerlinI want to live in the kitty house. You'd be their tenant. Basically, all I have left in life is quoting the Simpsons and the Seinfeld. That's really all I've got left. They'll become my unholy army of the night. Go, my pretties. Kill, kill.

AlexSo I heard that as a Rent reference Listen I'm not going to pay rent

MerlinI want to be super clear about this

AlexI'm not going to pay Last year's rent

MerlinRent No I won't light your candle I won't do it I won't light the candle I won't do it But I will let you take me out tonight

AlexOh god I've been activated

MerlinIt's not have you introduced your daughter to rent uh yeah i tried we watched the live one it's i mean i think she's ready for another look at it but you know for a variety of reasons i don't this is probably an after show topic but like on your advice we watched this is too personal after show hey alex uh how do people uh but it does involve pose

hey Alexandra how do people get to listen to assuming the show is still a going concern as of June 25th how would people even listen to the after show

Alexwell you would go to patreon.com slash Dubai Friday or give us your fucking money.com I think that's the URL

Merlinand for as little as $5 a month you get a second show and that's where we're trying to level I'm trying to level our resources to where we get a pretty robust after show, but it's usually like at least, you know, 20 minutes, half hour. And, uh, it's fun. And you learn about the next challenge. And if you feel like that, uh, uh, you could go, but if you don't want to give money to us, uh, lightning round, everybody name a charity somebody should give to right now. Go.

AlexOh, uh, Howard Brown health center. You stole mine.

MerlinYou stole mine.

AlexOh, so, oh, okay. Wait, wait, wait. Um, the, the Trevor project is a, a charity that's been around for a really long time. the treasure you could leave some of that one year old t-shirts oh wow the trevor project is this lovely charity that has been around for a long time that focuses on lgbtqqia youth um and because of all of the donations coming into uh places that have been overfunded like the

Minnesota Freedom Fund. There's a lot of stuff being redistributed to help young people all across the country. And they're really good at redistributing sources that I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. Like some people just need a place to talk to because they are young

Merlinand gay. They're sort of a clearinghouse for connecting people in need to people who can give

Alexthat kind of thing? Yes. Like they're, they, they've got like a hotline for, I am sad. Oh God, please help me. But they also help a smaller organizations across the country that, uh, need resources in, in different forms. Like some people need COVID tests. Some people just need socks and it's a charity I've also trusted for a really long time and have, it has, it has not been mired in scandal like myself. So I highly recommend that.

MerlinYou win this one, Cox. It's so disappointing.

Hey, but listen, I just want to be really clear. I want your fucking money. Like, if you've got money, I want the money. It's five bucks. But if you don't want to do that or you can afford more than that, Quinn, tell people where to give some money.

Speaker AYou can give some money to the Bail Project, which is a really important national nonprofit that helps to combat the unjust bail system in this country. If you are not aware of how this works, basically, people can be held on bail without even having to be charged with a crime or found guilty of a crime. And it's a really unjust way of keeping people in jail and away from their families. and it just is a way to criminalize poverty in many ways. And so the Bail Project works to basically free people

who are being held unjustly. And oftentimes that money is even brought back to the fund after their case is resolved eventually. And so it's a very good organization to help to just sort of combat one small part of our extremely unjust criminal justice system.

MerlinThat was really well put. You should be on podcasts. That was good. Thanks.

Speaker AYou really should. You should have a show. You know, I thought about it.

MerlinI was joking with Alexandra, But I had asked a few weeks ago, I forget how it came up, but you had suggested that a good place to give money to was Howard Brown, as you mentioned. We're having some fun. But so tell people what Howard Brown does, Alex.

AlexOh, me? Howard Brown Health Center is just a few health locations in Chicago that, again, caters to LGBTQ. Did I put a P in there? I don't know. They just are a sliding scale clinic. It means you're patient.

MerlinYes, yes.

AlexI can wait.

MerlinMy grandma's included in that one. I get off on it. I like waiting.

AlexIt's a clinic that has sliding scale pricing. So you can still go there if you have no insurance and they work with you. There's a lot of caseworkers. But if you're like me and you have good insurance, they also encourage you, like, yeah, please come to us. because we want to take your fucking money because then we can give it to people who can't afford to get COVID tests or can't afford HIV tests. And they're just really good people. And they were really on the front lines of COVID in Chicago,

especially recognizing that it's going to disproportionately affect black people and queer people, especially people who are experiencing homelessness. So yeah, I just like them. Also, they don't, I don't know, I'm afraid of doctors, but I'm not afraid of them. And not afraid in like, I don't know. They just-

MerlinIntimidated by them?

AlexNo, no, I just-

MerlinNo, I'm saying when you say you're afraid of the bad news or you don't like the relationship feeling or what is it about the relationship with doctors you don't like?

AlexI mean, all of the above. And it's almost like going to-

MerlinThey always want to touch you and look at your parts and-

AlexYeah, yeah. Yeah, it's they always acknowledge like this is fucking weird, right? And I'm like, yeah, it is. Oh, and they have flu shots. So, yeah, they're not tech. They themselves are not a charity, but they have a charity connected with them. So you are not giving to a for profit corporation. And if you just have health care and you're in Chicago and you want, you know, if you need a therapist or a physical, they do all of that, too. So I just I just like it.

MerlinYou told me about them a few weeks ago, and I made a donation. And then I decided, you know, this would be a good thing to share. Because this is you and other people, several other people were like, yeah, these folks have been around a long time. They help a lot of people. I'm not tooting my horn. I'm tooting everybody's horn. Because I started this thing off with a modest donation in recognition of the Cox family of Chicago, Illinois. And then I challenged my friends. Yep. I challenged my friends on Twitter to join in.

And as of today, it's up to $5,840.

AlexOh, my shit.

MerlinYeah.

AlexOh, my God.

MerlinI agree with Alex, Howard Brown Health, doing good work. Two other quickies, one that's near and dear to me. You can always help out a food bank where you live. My wife volunteers at the local distribution point. So there's all these volunteers who have to come out and put chalk X's on the sidewalk and wear the yellow vests and help people. And it's just blocks and blocks and blocks of people waiting in line to get food. And the amazing part is sometimes the biggest constraint is they run out of bags before they run out of food.

But when you donate to, in my case, the SF Marin Food Bank, which helps people here in my part of the Bay Area, that goes directly to helping adults and children and lots of people with good, wholesome food packaged and good to go. And SF Marin Food Bank, these will all be in show notes. And then finally, my go-to is always St. Jude's. It's not directly relevant to anything we're talking about here, except that St. Jude's is like one of the best. You've seen their ads on television, but it's true. We have friends whose kids have, one friend in particular whose kid was basically saved by St. Jude's.

And you never get a bill for anything. And they help a lot of families. But also give us your fucking money.

AlexOh, yes. I mean, you know, quick behind the scenes. if you can tell usually by the length of the episode whether or not I have my period because those tend to go longer. Just a hot tip if anybody has noticed my cycle.

MerlinOkay, first of all, this is the first I'm hearing of this. I'm very glad to know this. I feel like this will help our relationship.

AlexIt will help me help you.

MerlinSo you're telling me I go back, I flip through, and I don't know if you're on a regular cycle or some kind of Fakakta Catholic cycle, but you're saying approximately every four, approximately. I'm not being normative. We're ableist. Approximately every four episodes, we're going to get along, boy.

AlexWait, wait, is it ableist if I don't have a regular period? Obelisk. Oh, man. Welcome to the show, Quinn. I love having you on so much.

MerlinIt's a journey where we'll take you places that even we don't want to go. I wrote a song for driving with grandma, but I haven't had time to record it yet, but I'll try and for next time.

AlexOh my God. Oh gosh. Oh yeah. I've got a whole list. I have so many stories. There's, it's, I really love my grandparents, guys. Oh yeah.

Speaker BGrandparents are the,

Merlingrandparents are the best. And if you don't have the grandparent, you know, an aunt or an uncle will stand in quite nicely.

Driving with Grandma

AlexYay! Can't stop the Skype jam! Yay!

MerlinChallenge! This week our challenge comes from producer Quinn. Hi Quinn, what's our challenge?

Speaker AHello! Oh my gosh, okay. The challenge this week is to create a concept for a jukebox musical.

MerlinQuinn, what's a jukebox musical? Suddenly I'm David Rees. Quinn, what is a jukebox musical?

Speaker ASo first let me say that this challenge was actually devised by my good friend, brian hamilton um because you guys tasked me with coming up with a challenge and i texted him if he had any ideas and he immediately shot back with this which is perfect oh brian you should have

Merlinhim on here i love that guy oh he's a very kind person he's a very kind and thoughtful person

Alexand he's tall yes yes brian hamilton is very tall he is i agree i agree on all kinds listen to his podcast uh most important meal with him and his partner truths where they talk about breakfast, and I love it.

MerlinDid you see when they made Survivor in Animal Crossing?

AlexOh, my God. Oh, my God.

MerlinThey did the final council in Animal Crossing. It was so cute.

AlexOh, gosh. God, we have good friends.

MerlinThey're fine. They'll do for now. But a jukebox musical is a term I learned not that long ago. I did one of those things where you don't know there's a name for something. And I remember first hearing, oh, yeah, what's a good example? Oh, the Beatles musical? Is it like across the universe? But a jukebox musical is this thing where you take the songs of a genre, an era, or especially a certain artist or songwriter, and then maybe Mamma Mia. Would that count as a jukebox musical?

Speaker AYeah. In my sort of like mental stratification of this, I think there's like three essential types of jukebox musicals. Um, one is sort of the biographical one where this is like a Jersey boys or a Tina, um, where it takes the music of an artist to, and throughout the show that artists performs their songs. Yeah.

MerlinWhen you say Rocketman does that, I personally really, my whole family loves that movie, but that's one where they're going to like jam it into some kind of a narrative, even if it wasn't true to the way like Bernie Taupin decided to write about girls he saw in California. It fits really well with the visuals and what they're doing with the character.

Speaker AYeah, exactly that kind of thing. And then there's where you take the music of a particular artist and you create an original story around it. So that's like Mamma Mia, which I think is kind of the quintessential fun jukebox musical. It is a wild plot that loosely strings together a bunch of Abba songs. I love Mamma Mia very much. it is perfect and i love it more than most things and i'll say the third type uh before i come back to this point is when it you sort of it you get outside of a specific artist and it might be like

a group of artists or a particular era of music and i think like a good example of that of rock is rock of ages which takes like 80s glam rock um which by the way rock of ages was a pretty fun stage show and an absolutely dreadful movie so sorry everybody but um i think that like my i I think that the sort of best form of Jukebox musicals is when it tells an original story with the music, because I love seeing how the theater makers take existing songs and use them to craft a new narrative.

And I do think that this exists on a spectrum between Mamma Mia, which, as I said before, is a pretty loosely connected plot. Some of the songs don't really fit the moment they're in, but who cares? It's fun. It's ABBA. And then all the way to Jagged Little Pill, which is just premiered on Broadway this year, R.I.P. Broadway.

And it takes the music from Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill as well as some other of her catalog and creates like this totally new story that sounds like the music was written for it, which I think is a startling achievement.

MerlinI had no idea there were so many. I sent this to you all yesterday, but in trying to prep for the show and get some notes or links ready, I, of course, ended up on Wikipedia. And, of course, let's stipulate Wikipedia is not perfect nor complete, but it is very interesting what gets entered into a page. So you go to the page for jukebox musicals that were on stage. This is Section 2, list of stage jukebox musicals, and it's broken out by decade. And, again, not meant to be comprehensive. In the section called 1970s, there are four jukebox musicals that were staged, according to this.

In the 1980s, there were, it looks like about seven. In the 1990s, they're showing five here. Again, not complete. You get to the 2000s. And boy, are there ever a lot that I have never heard of.

It's all sunshine on leaf. There is a Proclaimers jukebox musical. The Slide is a The Beautiful South. That's not a band you hear a ton about nowadays. Earth, Wind & Fire, Rod Stewart. Of course, The Boy From Oz, the great Peter Allen. Moving Out, Billy Joel. Hell yeah. Yep, yep. And then it just goes on and on and on. Head Over Heels, 2018, The Go-Go's. Oh, I forgot about that. Flueless, All Out of Love, Tribute to Air Supply. These all sound like shows you would catch in the downtown part of the Las Vegas strip.

Speaker AThere's a new one coming out that was supposed to premiere in Chicago, but it's been delayed, obviously, called Once Upon One More Time, which is a fairy tale story using the music of Britney Spears.

MerlinOh, my God. I was so excited. Also, MJ, MJ, Colin, the musical.

Speaker AOh, yeah.

MerlinOh, my goodness. Okay. Oh, here's one. And Juliette, the music of Max Martin. Wow.

Speaker AYeah, that doesn't – you can't just say the music of Max Martin. Excuse me.

MerlinHe's a producer. I mean, I guess I could see that with like Phil Spector maybe.

Speaker AThat's like all music. Yeah. I don't know. I heard Ann Juliet was good, so I'm not going to rag on it too much. Cool.

Oh, really?

Speaker ABut when I saw that listing, I was like, you can't just say the music of Max Martin. Just say top 40 music.

MerlinYeah, right? There's a really good – there's a really good – two music podcasts I super recommend. Well, of course, there's Song Exploder. I also really like Strong Songs with Kirk Hamilton. And there's another terrific one by Chris Malamfy at Slate called Hit Parade. And it's like a reason to just talk about usually a genre, but it'll be like this week we go back to the week of June 24th, 1979. And here's when this crazy thing happened. Here's where the first hip hop song hit the charts.

And they did one on Max Martin that was really good. That kid has done a lot of songs.

Speaker AOh, yeah. Oh, my God, yeah.

MerlinHe did Since You've Been Gone, right?

Speaker AOh, I don't know. I think so. He's done... He's been out here for a really long time.

MerlinHere's the thing. We started out, friends.

Speaker AIt was cool, but it was all pretty.

MerlinWould you like me singing the whole song? I'd be happy to. Big clerks and fan.

AlexOh, the 2000s. The 2000s.

MerlinSimpler times, don't you feel? Simpler times. I mean... Maybe not for you.

AlexNot for you. Well, exactly. I was like, in the world? Oh, I mean, I don't know. lizzie ellis just put out a really interesting video about protest songs of the 2000s and i was like yep yep this all checks out yep okay that video made me think for the first time um about

Speaker Asome memories that i had of the radio growing up and i remembered that like holiday and wake me up when september ends were everywhere and i maybe only i don't think i ever heard american idiot on my local radio station which makes me think that my radio station refused to play it which

Alexis very funny to me oh there were tons of radio stations yeah like well they also used words that like would be considered slurs out of context and so there were some radio stations who were like uh the censored version of the song sounds bad and there were other stations in conservative states were just like uh this is too on the nose and it was it was decided that the song milkshake No shade on that song.

It's, I would argue, one of the best songs of the 2000s. That's a really good song. It was just easier to do Nickelback.

Speaker AOh, man, was it Lollipop?

AlexWhat's the one where they took Candy Girl? And then, oh, I don't know. I'll find it for notes. It was just-

MerlinOh, no, no, no, Lollipop, that song?

AlexNo, no.

MerlinI don't really know any of this music from Girl Talk mashups. Is that the ice cream paint job song?

AlexLike, I actually think it might have been sampled in all day, but I don't know. God, what a record.

MerlinThe 2000s are such a dumb time. No, with all due respect to you, but like last night we were watching, of course, we're watching The Office. and it's one of the episodes where it's after, oh shoot, who's the first boyfriend?

AlexRoy.

MerlinThank you. It's after Roy and pre, you know, Jim. But she's out to like dinner with this other person who's also an artist and he's like, he's very pretentious and he shows her this drawing. He said, oh, you know, freedom fries. And she's like, oh yeah, freedom fries. He's like, a lot of people say don't be edgy. But of course, the point is, even when they made that joke, freedom fries was an ancient idea that is it's so impossibly cleft to I want to say 2004

Alexdo you remember that do you remember freedom for us I very much do because that's the first time I remember thinking wow we just really are gonna dunk on anyone who's not a perfect 100% ally to

Merlinus right you should have seen it coming and we should have seen it coming yeah did you remember

Speaker Athat quinn no i've heard of it but i i have no memories of it well we decided we're gonna go

Merlinafter saddam saddam's uh weapons of mass destruction which definitely exists and uh we're like okay everybody come with us we're all gonna go invade something yay dick cheney wins and um and and so france said no And so, are you ready for this? The way that our people in Congress fought back was they passed some kind of a resolution. And at the, I believe, the House of Representatives, I want to say,

Cafetorium, they changed the name of the potatoes. Hang on, you ready? From French fries to freedom fries.

Speaker ASick burn.

Merlincourage are you kidding man how do you recover from that you're corn common

Alexand they're like oh no no no clearly it affected

Merlini have an i have it on some background information i don't know this to a certainty but it's my understanding that there may be one person here who spent a fair amount

Speaker Aof time on this so okay here's what happened what happened what happened here's what happened um so we set this challenge we're all excited about it and then i reached out to a couple friends uh because all of my friends are like me and i was like this is the challenge i'm doing do you have any ideas for which artist I should pick. One friend sent me back an artist that I was like, that's perfect. It then took over the rest of my day. I didn't get any work done on Friday.

That's right. Cause I just couldn't stop thinking about this. I made a full PowerPoint presentation that on Monday I gave a full 45 minute PowerPoint presentation to two of my friends about this imaginary musical that doesn't exist, but I just love it. I'm really attached to it now. um but yeah i'm not gonna do that here but i have lots to share of oh i vote for someone else goes first so i can get a gauge of how much i should talk about this i vote i vote we dip on

Merlinmine for the after show and we do alex do you want to do yours and then queen can lay out the uh

Speaker Athe slide deck for us i have the short version it's we don't need to it's fine i want the

Alexdon't spoil it yeah yeah well if you if you want oh fine i'll go uh hey alex what's your what's your jukebox musical well tell us i did a lot of this is something that is this a period

Merlinepisode oh no no this is are you like no i like nuns no sorry sorry sisters damn yeah

Alexway to way to throw the catholics under the bus um this became one of those challenges that quickly escalated to an existential crisis uh i i have it well quinn we we were talking the other day i don't even remember what prompted this maybe i was just inappropriately unloading feelings on you but i'm like yeah 10 years like 10 years ago uh i had a therapist who asked if

you could just do anything in the world you know uh all resources are available to you and even before she could finish i'm like i'd produce musicals and and she was like okay then and that has constantly been a thing of mine forever.

And did you know that Scott Forstall produced Fun Home?

MerlinThe musical?

AlexYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

MerlinNo.

AlexYeah, right, right? Okay, sorry. That just delights me every time that somebody-

MerlinHe was the lead on the initial iPhone software, right? He sort of defined the skeuomorphic look, right?

AlexYes, which I definitely, no comment. But the, I don't know, I went back and forth a bunch because I've done this before at least three times with a few artists and albums. Most specifically, the Academy is first album.

Merlinum and can i get a second take on that the the the academy is is a band okay okay cool it was

Alexlike an emo band it's uh yes there's going to be somewhat of a theme here they they actually performed um they were like a quote big deal in the 2000s emo scene to the point where panic at the disco opened for them multiple times yeah uh-huh right right from chicago here they are warp tour 2008 uh yeah yeah yeah they they went to um not my high school but the high school that i like would have gone to if i didn't go to catholic school uh but then i just was jumping

around between like okay i can't do stray light run because that's just an emo another just kind of like emo story right and the i kept falling into the trap of i am basically making the musical um next to normal or just doing throwing in too much evan hansen um oh sorry next to normal is a show about a mom who's bipolar and actually that's all i want to say because people should

see it and you know actual spoilers uh and dear evan hansen is just uh teens and sad and it's also amazing um but then i landed on what was another oh well and green day they kind of fucked that one up for me um although i do have a green day yeah exactly before american idiot even happened i had a uh what i thought was pretty good for a 13 year old's interpretation of um like their earlier album in a story earlier earlier albums in a story

about those but then i'm like what's what are the other artists that really like formed my sort of musical aesthetic for better or worse and i remember that i think adam neely video he's the youtube jazz guy right yeah and how like when you the years between you're like 12 and 14 no matter what you listen to you are going to think you really imprint on that yes um and for me because

of a number of reasons that was blank 182 because i mean it was they were everywhere from when their first album came out in 1999 and because i knew how to use a computer and nobody else did in my family i was able to like you know get get all the songs with the big f words uh nice and i know right um shout out to kaza or limewire yeah yeah um and you know the the ongoing theme

of all of their songs is a lot of like not necessarily toxic masculinity but just sort of immaturity of like, haha, we're boys, we cause trouble.

MerlinThat's the log line. We're boys, we cause trouble.

AlexWe're the boys who cause trouble. But over the next 15 years, their albums, for better or worse, really morphed and changed into the people who they became. and I kind of just kept thinking about using those songs in a much more Mamma Mia way than Jersey Boys of how to shape this around a queer narrative

and the toxic the way especially trans men are kind of put into this box and I don't know I'll maybe link to the dumb, it was in Slugline, like script thingy. But another thing that made this easier is because there are two singers in the band. So and often they sort of play against each other.

MerlinIs this talking about The Academy Is or Blink-182?

AlexSorry, sorry. We're talking about The Academy Is. The two like front men of the band are Mark.

MerlinWilliam Beckett.

AlexWhat?

MerlinIs that the guy? William Beckett? Is that the guy?

AlexNo, no. mark hoppus and tom de long um until recently tom de long got very into ufos oh wait sorry this is blink 182 this one is blink 182 um okay and uh they just have a lot of things that morph into a a change in perspective of not just how masculinity is viewed but how they as people treated women in their past um and they there are a lot lots of songs that can be interpreted as

a conversation between them or or him my protagonist as a conversation with a therapist and sort of how that in itself um can be a toxic relationship so i mean i have a playlist um there's there's our protagonist Mark um and his on again and off again girlfriend Lori um here's Zach who's like basically a character the character of Blink-182 and um Joanne the

the shitty therapist and I mean this is all boring and I I don't know it it it was a really fun interesting exercise especially in thinking about how these songs not can not only can be interpreted differently but how different they sound when they are played in a different way which is i was also kind of dicking around with too like you know uh all the small things in in minor is very different

song uh also i couldn't decide between the title all the small things or stockholm syndrome like Stockholm Syndrome is a little on the nose, but also All the Small Things is like, this is a Blink-182 musical. So basically, I took the-

Speaker AYou don't want to go full American Idiot with it?

AlexYeah, right? Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. It got really, this was a really cathartic challenge in a way. And I kind of like half peanut buttered it. Like I got a scoop. I ate a bunch of little scoops of peanut butter throughout the week, but didn't dive right in.

Oh, wow, in my notes I actually wrote, I didn't want to fall into the trap of American Idiot. All right, I'm done. Maybe we'll talk more about it in the after show.

MerlinI think that sounds cool. I think that sounds cool. I mean, with all these things, I always think this is very kind of metatextual, but in the same way that I first said a while back, when we do a challenge, you shouldn't have to read the whole book. You just have to read the first chapter. I think thinking of this as, you know, it's like in writing for TV, you've got like sort of like, you know, story versus script versus, you know, all those different kinds of things. I think here you're just pitching a story. It could even be a title and a log line and like, you know what I mean?

Like a short.

AlexYeah, this morning I was trying to think of a log line and I'm like, I know there's one here. I know there's an elevator pitch here, but I don't have it, which I think is okay because my favorite challenges that we do on this show are often ones that are kind of in the back of my mind the whole week, but it doesn't really like take over my life or I'm not stressing about a package being delivered, which are also super duper fun. But it's nice to kind of have like, I don't know, something to ruminate on for a week and just kind of framing things in a different way.

The way that, is it Elliot Rosewater was like, I'm going to try to use this word, which I think, or word I've never used before.

MerlinYeah, this is, I've decided to try being very empathetic this week.

AlexYeah, yeah.

MerlinI just wanted to be. Yeah, the Elliot Rosewater challenge.

AlexI forgot about that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

MerlinI think you did just fine. I don't think there's any peanut butter on your sheet.

AlexOh, I'm not. I'm just craving peanut butter now.

MerlinOh, boy. All right, Quinn. Quinn. Quinn. Quinn.

Speaker AGo, go, go.

MerlinTeeth. Teeth.

Speaker AOkay. I like yours. I hope to hear more about it sometime. So I have a little bit of buildup to mine because I want to mention some honorable mentions. Oh, boy. Just a couple.

MerlinI think I just got my period.

Speaker AOkay. Real quick honorable mentions. my first thought was Janelle Monae um because her music is perfect but her music is basically already a musical it's called dirty computer and you should go watch it on youtube now but um someone needs to adapt up for the stage but I wasn't going to try to rewrite the narrative she's already created um I also was interested potentially doing something with Tessa Violet who's one of my favorite indie artists and I she's got some like weird almost kind of horror elements to some of her music videos that I think would make a very fun kind of like little shop of

horror style musical. But ultimately, that just didn't grab me the way that my artist that I did ultimately choose is, which is Dodie. Oh, Dodie. Oh, and I also have to mention real quick that last week, Alex was like, I think I know what you're doing, Quinn. And I was like, I don't think you do. And then they sent a picture of Mika, who is one of my all time favorite performers. and I was like oh I'm actually not doing Mika but only because when I was in high school

I already wrote a jukebox musical out of Mika songs and I didn't want to retread the same ground you're just a more functional version of me in high school

MerlinI don't know who Mika is is Mika the one in the automobile or the one

Speaker Ano so Alex sent a gif of Grace Kelly because Grace Kelly is the name of one of Mika's most popular songs

Merlinoh I get it

Speaker Abut he's a European pop singer

Merlinwhat's this other one that looks like a Christmas Carol with Mick Jagger what is that

Speaker AI think you're looking at Mika

Merlinthere's a man in a red suit and a girl who looks like a haunted doll and a painting on the wall

Alexthat is from the Grace Kelly musical

Merlinoh

AlexI'm sorry music video I wish it was from Quinn's musical

Speaker Abut I decided to work with Dodie's music. So she is an indie pop artist who I have followed since 2015. And she started out on YouTube as a vlogger and a musician. And so I have a really deep familiarity with her music. And both like, I both know her whole catalog. And I know kind of a lot of the stories behind her songs. So I thought that would help me out. And I also find that her songs already have kind of like a narrative aspect to a lot of them and those narratives are often about mental illness

and about queer relationships because she's bisexual so I was like there's a lot to work with here that I feel like will really speak to the kind of story that I want to be telling I started to think about it and then I decided really quickly that I wanted this to be a story set in college because I feel like that setting just you know right what you know I decided to start out pretty easy on here uh and i was really inspired by jagged little pill which i've already mentioned um and waitress there's like a lot of sort of structural and story elements that i was

inspired from from both those shows they're both shows i absolutely love um when i was kind of thinking about like what kind of story do i want this to be so the kind of story i want this to be is uh i um i'm not going to go through the whole thing but the basic concept of the story is that it centers around a small group of sophomore girls in college who are dealing with like different kinds of relationship conflicts and our central character is someone who

has two primary things going on one is that she suffers from a fairly severe mental illness that she has sought treatment for and is under control but she has decided in college to keep this a secret from everyone and so none of her friends um know this about her um and other one is that

Alexshe is gay and does not know it so question does everybody else know it and she doesn't or like okay okay no no i think that's your musical yeah i just wanted to clarify i'm gonna be a boy

Speaker Aum and so the the heart of the show that i am really like drawn to because it's the heart of all of the musicals that i really love are about like kind of really small slices of life and interpersonal relationship so it's about her falling in love with her well realizing that

she's in love with her best friend and her best friend finally being able to like leave a destructive relationship that's been harmful to her as well as going through sort of a self journey to kind of both know who she is and be comfortable with who she is in a way that she hasn't been before and then sort of the external framework that I've put upon this as like a driving factor in a lot of it is that our main character, who by the way, I decided I didn't name any of the characters, but I did dreamcast the entire show with actual Broadway stars and then have been

referring to them in my head as the name of their actors. So the main character is hypothetically played by Eva Nobuzada. And so I've been calling her Eva. Wait, who is that? I apologize. I do not know who that is. She is a stunning young star on Broadway who starred in the Miss Saigon revival. and right now slash not right now r.i.p broadway is starring in hadestown oh oh cool okay thank you yeah yeah yeah um anyway so the external sort of like driving framework of the show is that um our

lead character eva is working with a professor and she experiences sexual harassment um from this professor and then is struggling to figure out what to do what path to take um and this ultimately leads to like a lot of journey of self-discovery um and you know various conflicts with their friends that ultimately lead to them falling in love and all that good stuff man i am surprised

Alexand not surprised how similar our themes are but well i think because we have similar tastes in musicals and yeah uh have similar not necessarily life experiences but like thematic interests

Speaker Amotifs yeah uh do you have a title right now in my head i'm calling it party tattoos which is a song fuck that's so good wow and i also i wanted to play you clips from two songs to kind of demonstrate how they work in the show and to give you kind of a taste for doty's music okay so i'm gonna send you okay so i'm sending you a link to the video for when um so and we can do like a one two, three, go just to listen to the first verse or something.

But this is, this in the show is the second song in the show. This functions as her I want song. And the thing is, you'll hear this when you start listening to it, but like it's a, the song is about Dodie's experiences with depression and derealization. And I think it functions on that level, but there's also several lines that I think really point to her, not understanding her own sexuality and not understanding what that disconnect is in her romantic life that will like play out later in the show oh i love it already this is one of my favorite songs

Speaker Bi think i've been telling lies because i've never been in love Everyone falls for the sunshine Disguised, distracted by Who they're thinking of I'd rather date an idea Something I'll never find Sure, I'll live in the moon

But I'm never happy here I'm surrounded by green-looking time

Speaker ASo that's enough for now. Wow. It's a really beautiful song.

MerlinThis is really beautiful. This is so good. And that arrangement reminds me favorably of Dear Evan Hansen a little bit. That kind of strings heavy.

Speaker AYes.

MerlinIt's just so melancholy, but not mawkish. You know what I mean? It's like melancholy, but not mawkish.

Speaker ADodie is really influenced by musical theater. And this is actually before Dear Evan Hansen was on Broadway. I just noticed that it came out November 4, 2016. Yikes. but she is i know that like that kind of sound um of do you have enhanced another shows like it is something that directly influences her so it makes sense that there that's a connection there um yeah so that's kind of like this really beautiful song that this is the first time in the show that you see internally into anyone and you sort of see where eva is at the beginning

of the show and then the other clip that i want to play for you um this other song i want to play

Alexfor you is this song called monster um which is this awesome song yeah oh i am making these noises

Speaker Abecause emotions yes so this is an excellent song that's about um breaking up with someone but it's not just that it's that you realize that you have become monsters to each other that you are no longer to see each other as people but you um like are are so diametrically opposed you can't empathize with each other anymore um and so how i want this to function in the show is this is the act one closer and this the stage is divided into two and on one half there's eva's best friend

and her boyfriend who is not a good guy um and it's the friend finally realizing that she has to leave the boyfriend and in the other half of the stage is eva facing off against the dean of her college who she's filed a complaint with and she's being just uh her complaints are being dismissed the professor is claiming it's a he said she said situation and nothing happened um and eva realizes that she needs to fight back more aggressively um and to tell the truth to more

people and not just try to like file a complaint with the dean um and that's what this song is it goes back and forth between the two of them all right uh let's do i put so much thought into this

AlexNo, I know. You're just braver than I am and are talking about the themes.

Speaker BTell me again about how it hurts being awfully loud for an introvert. Get out of my room.

Smile wiped clean. Isn't it weird? To be so mean, I'm guessing that I've grown horns. I guess I'm human no more. I can tell I've rotted in your brain.

Oh, how easily passion twists. You think I'm a crazy bitch. I craft my words to fit your head. Because no one listens to the dead. So maybe I will talk to you.

Speaker AThe only way I know how to. So that's Monster.

MerlinWow, that is so good.

Speaker AIt's, oh my gosh. So the last basic two things I'll say about this is that one, the whole framework for this show, definitely pretty much everything that happens that I've devised in this show is either something I experienced or something that I witnessed in college. and the specific sexual harassment plot line was actually inspired by something that happened in my senior spring when there was a professor who was ousted for sexual misconduct and there was like a campaign for it and like it was this whole thing and so that's where that came from

any other potential metaphors to be drawn were not intentional but like but I don't know The subconscious metaphors. That's the show. I've made a full playlist of the full 17-song breakdown that I've made. So that'll be in the show notes, I guess. If anyone wants to hear more about this show, let me know.

AlexThat's so good.

MerlinYou've done more work for this challenge than I've done the last 10 years of my life.

AlexYeah. Quinn, I was like, no, I'm not going to cry during this episode. It's not. this is not going to be the show oh my god I love this song so much and it's one of those that you listen on repeat you know and it's just so so good Quinn thank you for not only obviously well thank you Ryan for suggesting this and thank you for putting so much so much thought into this

Speaker Ait's very good thank you for giving me this outlet. I had so much fun and I appreciate you listening to me.

AlexMerlin, can you give us a teaser for the after show?

MerlinThe last musical about big boy energy you'll ever need. to do it.

Show notes

Transcript

192. Leather Bottom

Show notes

Transcript

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