156. Survivor: Epstein Island

MerlinOh, Jesus Christ. That's so fucking loud. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It sounds like it sounds like you're breathing through a kazoo. This is really this is really annoying. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's so everything is so. Can I go until you guys work this out?

AlexThis is Dubai Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox, and Max Tenkin. This week's challenge, buy a present for a lizard.

Hello. Hello. Hello.

MerlinOh, it's found duplicate videos. That's why. All right. What else is duplicate? Oh, because my flip videos are on there twice. Okay.

AlexOh, I miss the flip.

MerlinI miss the flip.

AlexI do.

MerlinI do. Man, it changed our game. We have so much great baby stuff with that. Like one night I recorded the whole process of bath to bedtime, and I wouldn't have done it with any other camera.

Little naked baby. She's so cute.

AlexAll right there, Jeffrey Epstein. Calm down.

MerlinOh, wow. Wow. Wow. Google Photos still does not recognize my lizard, if you know what I mean.

AlexI know.

MerlinI think it's prejudiced. I think it's prejudiced to lizards. I think it's other pets. What a hate crime.

AlexDid someone hate crime your lizard?

MerlinWell, I think maybe because he doesn't have a normal face. It recognizes all the cats and dogs.

AlexSo it thinks it's a gorilla.

MerlinIt doesn't show up in face things. at all, I think because it has an unconventional face. I think Google Photos is prejudiced toward non-faced mammals. Well, non-mammals.

AlexIs there a non-faced mammal that I'm not aware of?

MerlinWow, that was a little bit ableist.

AlexOh boy, I don't know if that should go in.

MaxOh boy. Oh, there we go. It sounds normal now. Merlin, you're definitely

Alexrecording your end. Yes, Yep. I mean, we're recording your end on Skype. I just don't like it because I can't see Skype, but that's fine.

MerlinI'm recording in Audio Hijack and in Skype.

AlexNo, I don't like it.

MaxMerlin, do we sound like Darth Vader to you?

MerlinNo, no. You sound fine.

AlexI would love that.

MaxBut ideologically.

MerlinI'm turning that up a little bit.

MaxYou sound great. Great. Alex, could you read the tweet that you put in our text thread this morning?

AlexI don't think I put a tweet. Let me check.

MaxYou tweeted in the thread.

AlexDid you tweet? You tweeted in the wiki? I sent Merlin a cover of, or not a cover. What is it? A great rendition of Helena. Oh, yeah.

MerlinThat was amazing.

AlexOh, do we? Last night, I discovered an article. And by discovered, I mean someone sent it to me. I mean, no. I was smart and found this.

MaxWell, Merlin put it in. What is happening? I'm sorry. I had it all fucked up. Merlin, can you read the tweet that you put in the text thread at 947 AM this morning?

MerlinYeah. Yeah. Yeah.

AlexYeah.

MerlinYes. Yes. I have a large box of asterisks about this. Julie K. Brown, who is the lady, I believe, at the Miami Herald, who did. Yeah. The lady, Julie K. Brown, who's the one who did the jaw-dropping Jeffrey Epstein stuff for the Miami Herald. This is posted at 7 a.m. My time breaking. Jeffrey Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says. And the story will be updated with new info from Dr. Bodden.

Now, this is the first I'm hearing of Jeffrey Epstein. Who is that? He is, I think he's one of the guys at DreamWorks.

MaxOkay. Right. Right. He drew on the napkin. He's like, the toys come to life at night.

MerlinYeah, and he drives away in the bumper car. He's been sitting in the whole time.

MaxThe fish gets lost.

MerlinYeah, yeah, yeah. Where's my fish? Last robot left on Earth. Also, where's my fish too? Who moved my parachute?

MaxSo many, so many, so, so. You say, what color is my parachute? Yeah, who moved my parachute?

MerlinOh, who moved my parachute? Yeah. But, you know, asterisk, asterisk, asterisk. Doesn't that sound like one of those business books?

MaxLike you'd go into FedEx and you'd be perusing the bookshelf and it would be like, where's my fish?

MerlinYeah. Yeah, exactly. I think we should workshop some of these. We should come up with titles of these books, and then somebody else can write them. Yes. How about One Kernel of Corn?

MaxIt's like the mustard seed.

MerlinLet's see. Let's see. Why toilets fail? All right.

MaxI don't know. Oh, why toilets fail? Yeah, I could see that's sort of a Freakonomics thing. It's like the surprising truth of everything in the world around you. Yeah.

MerlinYep, yep, you're not shitting in what you think you are. I sent this to you because I just awakened. I was pretty early. And it is Julie K. Brown, who is a substantial person. But then I followed through. A person of substance.

AlexWhat does that mean? Like, are you fat shaming? What's going on?

MerlinWhat am I doing? She's the one. You know, read a book. She's the one who wrote the thing. She wrote the thing. And so that's her beat. It got retweeted on the Twitter toots, but I tracked it down. And the basis for this is Michael Bodden, who you've probably seen. He was in like, I think it was an HBO series that he was in. He's a famous, famous Quincy, like a famous pathologist. And he does like, you know, he's like pathologist to the stars.

And so anyway, so this, if you follow it all the way down, You scroll down in the thread where I become, I don't know, my credulosity changes a little bit because it's a Fox and Friends segment with Michael Bodden, Dr. Dr. Bodden.

He's got a nice face. Who, who, who was the pathologist to the stars hired by Jeffrey Epstein, the late Jeffrey Epstein's brother. So he's got a dog. He does have a dog in this fight.

MaxIs Jeffrey Epstein's brother working? Is he like OJ, like he's trying to find the real killer? Is he out there?

MerlinHe hired Bodden to go into the autopsy and then to observe it. So they were allowed to have him go in there, and he observed it. And so he's, I mean, what do you say? I mean, yeah. I mean, we all said this at the time. Hi, I bone. That's not how I do. You don't break a bone like that. That's not a normal suicide-y thing.

MaxI think we all know what happened, which is the cameras went out. Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton went in. The cameras went out. They had a change of guards, a bunch of new guards that had never worked in the prison before were there. And in that small window of time when that all happened, he just killed himself in the normal fashion.

MerlinI guess. Yeah. Yeah. I can't tell if you're joking.

MaxEither that or it was Hillary Clinton. Or it was Hillary Clinton in a bandit hat. She's in a cat suit and she comes crawling out of the duct.

MerlinI'm in.

AlexHe chokes him with the pizza. just runs away. She Tom Cruise is down

Merlinfrom the ceiling. Yeah. She's got suction cup handles. There is a lot about it that's weird. The two different cameras being out is weird. The part that the Occam's razor part has already been erased from my hard drive, but I think what the thing that was crazy was that the two people who were guarding fell asleep, but turns out they weren't actually guards because this place is grossly understaffed and they had people who were like teachers and counselors guarding at guarding prisoners?

MaxWait, wait, wait. You're saying they can get counselors to watch the prisoners in prison, but we can't get a goddamn counselor in a public school in Chicago?

AlexThis is blowing my mind, right? Hold on. Was that in the piece by Jackie Brown? Oh, my God.

MerlinNo, Alex, we've known this. What?

AlexWait, wait, wait.

MerlinJulie K. Brown?

AlexYou're talking about a Quentin Tarantino movie. Sorry, Jackie Brown, Murphy Brown, whatever.

MerlinJeffrey Epstein guards teacher.

AlexI think I'm so upset.

MaxYou're telling me we can get nurses and social workers to guard Jeffrey Epstein, but we can't get them in the schools in Chicago?

MerlinYeah, they're really overworked and they're very tired and they fall asleep. But yes. Two staff members who were... New York Times, August 13th. The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself, fell asleep, failed to check on him for about three hours, and falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials. Let me see if I can find the teacher thing. uh uh the teacher union finds i feel like i read somewhere that that yeah that they were

repurposing so so again this has all been purged from my memory but i think what i remember hearing was well i don't want to be all you know misstate a murder thing uh but i think what happens is like they're they're they're very understaffed under resourced and there are people in non-guard roles, who get repurposed to guard roles. The part that makes it worse is that the people who weren't guards were there and fell asleep.

I knew

Alexthat. I knew that part. Do you think he paid someone to kill himself? Yeah, yeah. I don't think that he would have the balls to hang himself, so he was just like, okay, choke me and then bedsheep me.

MerlinFirst rub my feet, then One of the staff members was a former correctional officer who had taken a different position at the detention center that did not involve guarding detainees. He'd volunteered to work again as a correctional offer for the extra overtime pay, a law enforcement official and employee at the jail said.

Jail was short-staffed. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know. But, you know, I still have a little bit of Epstein brain. I've got to be honest. I still think it's weird that they can't find Ghislaine or whatever her name is.

AlexI think about her every single day. It is driving me crazy.

MerlinIt is so goddamn weird.

MaxDid no one ever go to his island? Like, weren't you just waiting for someone to, like, charter a boat and go to his island and, like, take a GoPro and, like, show us what was there?

MerlinThere are people who break into things at Disney World, and that place is crawling with mouse cars.

MaxYeah, you're telling me that we can steal Buzzy, but we can't get onto Epstein's private island?

MerlinFuck, just go. You get a packet boat. They'll drive you there. Come on in, guys. Okay, hang on. Hang on. Survivor Epstein Island. Oh, shit dog.

MaxDon't know what you're playing for? Maybe there's a twist where, so when your team wins the challenge, you send someone from the opposing team and they have to go to Epstein Island. And then he's, and then it's... Or Boston Rob and Sandra. Is there one advice? No, it's Jeffrey Epstein and Boston Rob. And they're like, and he's like, I've got a challenge for you this week. Say you've got a child and you need to restrain them. Okay, all right. You're going to have to, now, I could give you immunity. I'm going to read to you off of this card.

If you have a child, I cannot win the money. If you can restrain a child faster than Jeffrey, you will get an immunity good for three tribal councils. You get a night with Coach.

No, wait a minute.

MerlinI'm Survivor Epstein Island. You can meditate better than Coach. You will get a clue.

MaxThere's no Boston Rob. It's just Coach and Jeffrey Epstein. Those are your two people. Choose your fighter. I'm going to need you to sneak into the other team's camp at night undetected and abduct their children.

MerlinYou can take any child from their camp. You bring them in the packet boat, you take them to the temple. You will meet coach at the temple, and whichever one of you can meditate harder, climb up on the roof, where you will find a buffet of children giving foot rubs.

AlexI hate it so much.

MerlinWhat you do next is up to you, but you will lose your vote if you get the wrong child to rub your feet. Now, if you can detect DNA On the ligature marks Faster, faster, faster Than coach Michael Bodden

AlexI'm gonna get in trouble if I laugh What? What?

MaxGet in trouble with whom? Who are all these people that are getting you in trouble? Do you think John's gonna laugh at that bit?

MerlinHe likes the Boston Rob bit But he doesn't like the accent

MaxYeah, I don't think he would be. I can't see John enjoying a pedophile joke. No, no, no. Well, he mutes. He would mute for it, yeah.

MerlinNo, it was a survivor joke. Michael Bodden, American physician and board-certified forensic pathologist, known for his work investigating high-profile deaths, and is the host of HBO's Autopsy. I used to watch Autopsy. Autopsy. I used to watch that. Autopsy.

AlexAutopsy.

MaxI don't know. I'm still- You guys watching any of these new prestige TV shows that are coming out? Watchmen? Yes. Was it good? No comment. You returned no? You can't even say if you enjoyed Watchmen? I don't talk to you about things. Why? What did I do to deserve this?

MerlinI haven't seen it yet.

MaxI'm trying to decide.

MerlinYou throw things in a person's face. First of all, you steal my content constantly, and I have to drop a pineapple in your thread, because you constantly steal things that I give you as a friend in our super secret private text channel, and then you're like, meh, check out what I found. Yeah, so you get a pineapple on that, and then you throw things in my face all the time. You go, meh, meh, thing that you recommended, I don't know.

It's not rewarding.

MaxMerlin, I trust your taste a lot. Thank you. You recommended Patriot to me. Oh, yeah. I think you have very good taste.

MerlinI think Watchmen is real good. I increasingly do feel like it is very useful to be familiar with the comic. Originally, I thought, oh, you don't really need to be, but more and more I see people going, what is, what, what? It is helpful to be familiar with the comic.

MaxCan I ask you a dumb question?

MerlinIs it a full TV show like Game of Thrones, or is it a miniseries, or what is it exactly? So this is Damon Lindelof, who did Lost, and he did The Leftovers, which I loved, and a lot of people didn't. It is a one-season, I believe nine, I want to say nine-episode thing, and it's going to be one and done. I love that. I do, too. I do two things in the English style.

MaxYou know, I like a six episode TV show. I was way on the inside of Lost. I mean, I read every I was like, you know, I was like I had like eaten all the cookies. And now I was like I was like licking my finger and going in for the crumbs with Lost. You know, I was getting all the little cookie crumbs at the bottom of the box. I was on the tail section forums looking at like fan spoilers and stuff like that. And, you know, I was I know from like interviews at the time and reading like every just every fucking postmortem and everything about it. that Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse,

who are the showrunners of Lost, were very frustrated. They just wanted to tell the story and they had some ideas of where to go with it. And the thing took off and was such a hit that ABC kept saying, making longer orders. And they were like, no, we want a deal for 10 seasons. Really?

MerlinWe're going to do 30 episodes a season. That explains so much.

MaxAnd Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof were begging. They were begging. They were like, please give us an end date. They were like, there is no way we can tell the story without knowing when it's over, right? Because how would you? And they were like, please let us only do, 12 episodes a season and ABC was like So the broth gets thinner and thinner Really? Exactly. I mean, wow that's crazy. And they did a whole, there's an infamously bad part of Lost where all of our heroes are imprisoned basically and they have these long episodes where they're just like in a cage and like rattling their chains and yelling

and nothing. Oh, I blocked that out of my mind. It's really bad and it was the famous episode also where they do, in Lost part of the conceit is there's a flashback in every episode and in the beginning they were so fucking like titillating because you wanted to know what were these people when you go back and see what lock what lock's life was like that's such a good episode but but you wanted to know what everyone's deal was and these flashbacks were so tantalizing and at a certain point in the show they were like what more can we do with the flashback right like we cannot keep coming up with like titillating things about these people and so they did an episode where jack was uh imprisoned and he was

rattling his chains and making his kooky face at his prisoners and then he was having flashbacks the flashback sequence was how he got his tattoos that one thing that we were all wondering where but where did jack get his tattoos and and i was so hooked on the show i mean i was watching it and like and like pausing and like zooming in and looking for clues in the background and all that bullshit that you did when you watch lost but like i was like good lord this is boring like i mean i really feel like they're insulting my they're not sort of like dignifying how much i like the show

I now know that like Damon Lindelof and Carlton Hughes, they were like begging ABC, like, let us do less. Right. So we can bring this thing to a close. And they could never reach that compromise. And so it got really dragged out. But I can I bet it's probably pretty if you're Damon Lindelof, I bet it's pretty creatively satisfying to be able to do one season of Watchmen. Yeah, I think he learned something. He learned something with every project.

MerlinWell, let me ask you people this because this might be a challenge. Have you seen The Leftovers?

MaxNo. I tend to really like the stuff that you and Syracuse both I think you guys both have really good taste

Merlinso you've seen it?

Maxno no I downloaded it and I haven't watched it yet and I know that I'm going to like it because you guys both like it

Merlinwell S1E1 of Leftovers I think would be before you go to Watchmen just for fun it would be interesting for you to watch S1E1 of Leftovers

MaxI would 100% do that as a challenge why are you making a noise Alex?

AlexI'm just very interested to see where this will go. Have you seen it? No, I haven't. And I wonder if you're going to go all lost on it the way, like, remember, I'm sure you remember, Not Penny's Boat, like, during those later seasons, like, I was zooming in, like, what if it's the astrological signs on his hand that are telling, like, what the birthday is of the killer or something? And I've watched one episode of The Leftovers, And I think that I got a little bit to not Penny's boat about it.

And I don't know if Max is going to like.

MerlinI thought you said you didn't watch it. You've seen the first episode? I've seen the first episode.

AlexAnd I was told that it was, well, didn't you say you should keep going with it?

MerlinI'm not going to say anything at this point.

AlexOh, all right. All right. Well, I would love to watch Leftovers.

MaxAnd I think it would be cool to get Syracuse to come on too, because I know he likes that show. You guys have talked about it on your program.

MerlinIt's very – it's a – I can't. So there's a rec diff that will be coming out today or tomorrow where I'm trying to talk about how it's difficult to talk about – I'm getting so iffy about even talking, like, spoiling, like, the – especially with a Lindelof show. You want to let somebody appreciate it on their own terms. And so for me, like, you know, for me to go, oh, my God, you've got to check out Veep or whatever. I can do that. Sure, Veep. It's funny. You're going to like it. It's really good. It's one of the funniest comedies ever. But with this, I don't even want to say anything about it,

except that I would say, I think Watchmen and Leftovers are worth checking out. Can we talk?

MaxLeftovers is so good. It's so fucked up.

MerlinIt's really fucked up. But I want you to appreciate, why are those women smoking? What's happening? Anyway, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

MaxI'm down.

MerlinI'm so happy to hear. Well, I'm not happy. I'm so that fits fills in some puzzle pieces for me because I I watched Lost yeah I liked it I loved it I loved it like I was super into it uh less so in some parts than others but knowing what you just told me uh I have so much respect for that guy you know he's he's such a he and his team I guess I don't say just him like what a what a what an ambitious mind you have to have to take something like the source material that he takes do what he does he and his team do with it and

get it on screen on fucking like normal TV. Like it's so wild that that can happen today.

MaxYou know, another lesson I learned from the whole way that Lost went down was they had a podcast, right? Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cusen. So my routine was I would watch Lost and then I would go on all the forums and I'd read everything and then I'd listen to the podcast and you'd hear them talk about it. And they would always take these listener questions and they would really get into this guessing game with the listeners where the listeners were like, are they all dead? And they'd be like, no, they're not all dead. And it's like, are they all in hell? And they'd be like, no, they're not in hell. And they're like, is there time travel? And they'd be like, there's not time travel, but there might be, but no.

And then they'd be saying this stuff, and then a season later, they'd have a really good idea, and they'd be like, fuck, we should do some time travel stuff. And then they'd be written into a box, right? Because they said there was no time travel, and then the fans would get mad. Oh, God, yeah. And what I took away from it was just because people will listen to you talk about your art doesn't mean that you should necessarily talk about your art.

AlexThat's the only thing now I respect about Benioff and Weiss of Game of Thrones. Did you see that crazy fucking Twitter thread?

MerlinYeah. Oh, man.

MaxWhat was this?

AlexOh, God. There was a panel. Tell him. This is so wild. Oh, God. There was a panel that...

MaxThese are the showrunners of Game of Thrones.

AlexGame of Thrones.

MerlinOkay. Yeah. Was it like some kind of a con? They did a session. They've been pretty, I think they've been fairly radio silent since mostly, since for a while now. But so just as backstory, what we know is they did Game of Thrones. We know that they wanted to do, what is it, like an alt-history version of, like if the Confederate, if the South had won.

AlexOne could go wrong.

MerlinRight. And we knew that they're working on a Star War. and we knew that they were going to be involved with some new HBO projects involving Game of Thrones, prequels, sequels, spinoffs, something, right? So they have pretty full plate because the Star Wars thing was announced a long time ago. And it's one reason a lot of people said, wow, maybe this season sucks because they're distracted by Star Wars. Who knows? Whatever. I don't know. Anyway, so that's the back story as I know it. So what happened at this Q&A?

AlexWell, they just started asking the standard questions, And I feel like there was some NDA that was lifted where they just told every they were completely honest about what their deal with HBO was. Some of some of my favorites, two months before the pilot was to air, the episodes were averaging 39 minutes and HBO made them write and film 100 minutes of scenes to meet their contractual obligations. For example, they added a scene with Robert and Cersei and realized that there were actually no scenes with them.

The moderator is asking them about their comments, acknowledging they didn't understand the characters, and the extra minutes to help them understand the characters better. Dan is saying that he let the characters redefine the roles, especially Maisie and... I don't know, this is someone tweeting, like live tweeting the panel.

MaxMaisie is... Maisie Williams, who is Arya. Arya, right.

AlexThey began writing for the actors. It's like the actor moved into the house and redecorated. He said he learned about the characters from the actors, which sounds like well and good until you see that they eventually are like, yeah, we didn't really understand the source material, so this was an expensive film school for us. They even say that, oh, we had no idea.

MerlinDidn't they have the other people wrote for them and stuff like that? They didn't know what to do.

AlexThey only wanted their writer's assistant.

MaxThe first couple seasons of Game of Thrones are the best.

AlexWhich is wild because that's when they had very little control over it. And it's like as their balls grew.

MerlinIt just basically, it just reeks of this whole like, like whose cat did they save from a tree to get to do this at all?

AlexRight.

MerlinWho didn't get work because these guys got to do this thing and they fell ass backwards into success because they were surrounded by people who did the work for them is what it sounded like.

AlexLike the women who did the dragon noises. And they eventually brought on costume designers. And it's just kind of wild how little work they did.

MaxYou know, I listen to podcasts on a very long, I'm like, I just don't have time to, I'm always on a huge time delay because I have so many podcasts. So I'm just listening to a Roderick on the line where you and Roderick are talking about that final, that's the end of Game of Thrones. And Roderick was like, did you watch it? Did you like it? Did you hate it? and you're doing your normal Merlin thing, we're like, oh, I'm too reticent. I couldn't say, I couldn't say. And then you spent an hour talking about it, and it was really interesting. But you guys were going through

all the different fan reactions, and it was a good conversation. I'm digging it. But I feel like I unlocked the ultimate cheat code, which was I decided maybe two seasons ago that Game of Thrones wasn't... I wasn't enjoying it as a viewer. I was like, what I want to happen is not... I don't know. I liked it up to a certain point, And then I was like, I'm not enjoying watching this anymore. And I fucking stopped watching it. I didn't watch it last season. How about that? Well, you should get a medal. But do people remember? Do people know that that's an option to not like something and then not watch it?

Yes. How could anyone possibly respond to a question like that?

MerlinWhat an odd thing to say.

AlexYes. Move on. An extremely odd thing to say.

MaxYou don't have to watch it and complain about it. Move it on. Move it on. I'm not saying you and Roderick are doing that. No, you're not. You were talking about the fan entitlement and how fans were all losing their minds. and people were getting really mad at the showrunners. Thank you for listening to the show. You can stop any time.

You guys were talking about the fans. You're like, oh, the fans are so entitled and they're complaining about this thing. And then you were saying the fans shouldn't complain to the thing. And I was like, they just don't watch it if you don't like it. I'll tell them.

Merlinit's like when people correct your spelling on a tweet and you're like, okay, I'll fix that. I'll file a bug. Now, you know, it's interesting because I think I am somewhere on the spectrum. So there are people who, you know, I mean, there's so many options for so many things and people will just bounce, you know? And then at the extreme end of the spectrum, you get somebody like Syracuse where, so the role that you're in right now, I'm kind of in that role with him with The Walking Dead where I'm like, you're really still watching it.

And he's like, yeah, I'm still watching it. I was like, well, do you like it? He's like, no. I was like, okay. Well, but he gets pot committed to a show in a way that I weirdly admire. You know what I mean? Where it's like, this is the thing that I'm doing. I'm going to finish this game. Even if it's bad, I'm going to finish this TV show, even if it's not what I would prefer.

MaxSo yeah, I mean, you're right. Don't you have friends who sometimes, like I have friends who every time I see them, they tell me about their, I listen sympathetically to them talk about their shitty relationships.

MerlinOh, sure.

MaxAnd they're like, and every time I'm like, I'm like, wow, that sounds really hard. Oh, yes. And I'm going, just break up with them.

MerlinSo what you're saying is he did it again? Yeah, I know. Okay, that must suck.

MaxYeah, that sounds really difficult for you.

MerlinIf only there were some options that you had for something optional. Yeah, well, I worry that I sound like that with Apple stuff. It's just that I, because boy, it's just like every week on Rectifs, we come back to like fucking Apple TV and you're like, what a garbage fire. And what could be, to me, this is me, not Syracuse, but like, what could be more symptomatic of what ails Apple than Apple TV in some ways? Where you're like, you know, what do you guys care a lot about right now?

Because it's getting super hard to tell. You care about selling lots of phones, which is good. But as I postulated with Dan on Tuesday, I have the concern that, which I'm sure other people have said, I have the concern that iPhone is to Apple as Windows was to Microsoft. I'm worried that success has become a deodorant for them and they're culturally not capable of doing something super cool and well. I'm really fucking worried. So I worry that I, this is when I say things like that. When I say things like that, I worry that I sound like a, meh, meh, meh.

Like, why don't you just come to Android? It's fucking great. Like, no, I am in the way that perhaps that Syracuse is pot committed to Walking Dead. I am pot committed to Apple. I have all the Apple things. That's way different, though. And I like them. I just want them to be good. I'm allowed to bitch. I don't work there. That's my job.

AlexI mean, that's like saying you don't like your house, but you can't move. For example, like an apartment that I live, someone lives in.

MaxIt's like you're not allowed to use the walls.

AlexYeah.

Maxit's like if the only two options in life are to stay in your shitty relationship or take a vow of celibacy and join a monastery and it's like there's literally no other humans alive it's like there's one person or there's like monastery and you're like i guess i'll stay in my relationship because that's yeah tech egos it's like right you have two two options and it seems obvious to me that apple is the by a long shot is the less bad option but boy it would be nice to have some more

Merlinoptions out there. But it's, I think there's some kind of a cognitive bias where it's so easy, you know, for example, like, you ever notice, like, when one person is typing, and another person is looking, the person who's looking sees more, the person who's not driving sees more, like, you know what I mean? There's something about the person who's driving or typing is like, they missed that spelling error, like, you know, that's really weird. And I feel like life is like that, where like, when you're looking at somebody else's typing, driving or relationship, you can see what's going on, or you can see somebody's house situation, you go, wow, I would do that

differently. Well, that's not the thing that's your hang up. And I'm not criticizing here, because I think I'm the same way. But if it's your bullshit, it's super important. If it's somebody else's bullshit, it's easy to fix. And I think that's part of the problem. Plus, there are people who are just addicted to drama and pain. If your dad expressed his feelings by like yelling at your mom at dinner. Yeah, you're going to get an eating disorder. Like, fuck that, you know? I don't know.

Anyway, people are bad.

MaxI sent you guys a funny tweet. It's a screen grab of a tweet. Did you get that in our channel? Yes. So this is from Kellogg's. This is from Kellogg's cereal. And they say, join us with GLAAD in celebrating the world's largest anti-bullying campaign. Show your support for LGBT youth by buying a box of limited edition, altogether cereal, hashtag Spirit Day. What the fuck is Spirit Day? I don't know. It's some sort of concocted LGBT holiday

that big brands like Kellogg's can tweet about to show that they're woke. So if you zoom in on the cereal, look at this disgusting slop that they've made for the gay youth. They took just all the cereals and put them together into one box. And they're like, oh, that's what, oh, no. Oh, there's so much to this. And so if you were to take a moment, First of all, the cereal is fucking disgusting.

MerlinBecause you have to understand, it's Froot Loops, but it's also like Frosted Mini Wheats. Oh, my God.

MaxAnd chocolate. Oh, God. And chocolate. It's all of the Kellogg's cereals and Rice Krispie Treats and then the unflavored healthy cereals all together in one box.

MerlinPut this in your face, queers.

MaxYeah. And it's like, oh. And you can just tell the Kellogg's marketing department. So misguided. They're all drinking coffee and they're pacing around. And they're going, oh, my God, we've got to do something for hashtag spirit day because we don't want people to dislike us. And they're like, what do the kids like? What do they like? And they're like, I don't know. I don't know. Put it all in the box. Give it to them. What do they like? And on the art, the other funny thing of the art is they have all the mascots just all like all sort of with their arms out. And that's going to be our next exercise is figuring out who is what.

AlexAnd you can tell. I know. Like you can tell they're like a power bottom. I don't know.

MaxThey're like, what are these? just a bunch of ad exacts like pacing on going, fuck, fuck, what do the kids like now? What is it like? They want these, the three gay elves, the tiger furry? What about a rooster? Do they like a rooster? Who knows? Put it all in the box. Let's go. Make it purple. Come on. Go, go. Please don't get mad at us. It's purple.

MerlinIt's got a rainbow. They got the rainbow colors wrong too because it's so terrible.

AlexThis is a manufacturing error and then they were like, wait, wait, wait. I got it.

MerlinI got it. Oops, all queers.

AlexOkay, okay. We put, like, there was just a landfill.

MaxThe toucan is bi now. Does everyone like us? It's a polypop tart. Polypop tart.

MerlinI hate it so much.

Oh, the sun. What is the sun from? The sun is a glory hole.

AlexI don't know. The old people cereal? I have no idea. It's from one of those.

MaxThe sun is Raisin Bran. Yeah, they're like, the sun from Raisin... Big announcement for hashtag spirit day. The sun from Raisin Bran is ace.

AlexOh, my God.

MaxWe're celebrating ace visibility with the asexual sun from Raisin Bran. The sun from Raisin Bran is asexual, everybody. Uh-huh.

AlexHmm. Hashtag Spirit Day is mostly this box.

MaxI think Tony the Tiger probably likes to be choked.

AlexNo, I... Great.

MaxHe's a daddy.

AlexYeah, yeah.

MaxHe's the one who knocks.

AlexSee, you'd think because he has a leash, but no, no, no, no.

MaxThose elves are pan.

AlexWait, he's got a hanky. Hanky code. He's into blood play?

MaxWhat is red?

AlexOh, okay.

MerlinOh, he doesn't. He's a blood top. He's a cutter, Jerry. A cutter.

MaxNo, look, he's holding the little wheat. Yeah, the little shredded wheat. He's got a Pop-Tart boy. It's his little poppy twig. I think that someone isn't, I mean, there's some sort of vore thing happening here, too, because they're all eating each other.

AlexYeah, you don't see anyone's hands, so I think there's like a fisting chain going on, and then the little Pop-Tart, or no, that is a wheat thin on the top. I don't know.

MerlinOh, is it? Oh, is it a, oh, I see. It's not a Pop-Tart, huh?

AlexNo, I think it's not.

MaxI had another piece of follow-up. So we had a Dubai Friday listener who no information came through with this, but someone sent us three teeny, teeny, tiny upsetting little knives, and they were engraved Dubai Friday. Oh, nice. I'm telling you, the whole knife was like an inch long. They were like tiny little keychain knives, and they folded out, and they were so sharp. It seemed like you would just like – they were like a shiv.

Alexthey were very nice they have words on them I haven't sent yours to you Merlin

Maxwhoever's sending us the very tiny upsetting knives thank you for that

Alexthe Kellogg's

MerlinI'm sorry I'm so distracted the Kellogg's twitter account is really just something in general there's Tony the Tiger let your great out hashtag pride

Maxlook at the video he turns into a rainbow

MerlinOh, no.

MaxI think Tony... I heart my dad's. Look at the replies to this. Oh, my dad's. I heart my dad's.

MerlinOh, God. Oh, no, I can't look. Love is a never-ending rainbow.

MaxI think Tony the Tiger is a gay icon. Pounce on pride. I think that they... But now I think they're trying to get out in front of it. Oh, God. Oh, I see.

MerlinYou're going to own the story, you're saying. Yeah. That's smart. That's smart. Boy, this is a really, really extremely bad Twitter account.

AlexI hate it so much.

MerlinSee, I did that thing. I don't like to admit this. I did that thing a while back where I hit the button and blocked all the like Fortune 500 companies. Oh. And so I occasionally realized who I blocked when I go through. And so now I am peeking inside. I had blocked Kellogg's like all these other companies. And oh, God, this is bad.

MaxOh, there's too much tiger here. So many rainbows. You're going to like this that I just sent to you. Okay.

AlexThis is just a gay serial Twitter account. Like they have an occasional ad and then it's, well, a gay ad, but it's, god damn it.

So much to love about my moms.

MerlinI love my gay moms.

MaxMerlin, did you see this little news article snippet that I sent you?

MerlinLet's see. In 2007, Bodden was again in the news for Question of Condom.

MaxThis is the pathologist to the stars. That's right. That's right.

MerlinPathologist of the Stars, and who keeps referring to his client as the brother. Would you like to read this? No, go for it. Merlin, this ticks so many of your boxes, you have no idea. In 2007, Bodden was again in the news for questionable conduct, this time as he took the stand in the Phil Spector murder trial. He had a fresh theory of how Spector's alleged victim had died, one that provided room for the defense to explain some blood on Spector's jacket. During cross-examination, the prosecutor asked Bodden if he had any conflicts of interest in this case. None that I can think of, he said, according to the Los Angeles Times.

Moments later, it was revealed his wife was one of Spectre's main attorneys. Come on. What? Science.

AlexThat's how it works.

MerlinThat's how it works. Aloha. Okay. Yeah, Phil Spector, man. You okay there? You okay? You pooping into the bucket? Yeah, no, I'm trying to. Here's the thing. Remember, we've got to keep this one short. Oh, Dig Dug Challenge? But it's going to be very disappointing to talk about the challenge.

AlexOh, no. Why? Oh, did it not get there in time? Oh, no.

MerlinHang on. No, everything. I got many, many. So, Dig Dug Dug Dug Challenge. The challenge this week was to buy presents for a lizard. And so, everybody was kind enough to send wonderful, wonderful things for the lizard. And you guys got extremely creative. But here's the thing. I'm worried that you didn't use the ball right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we'll get to that. But you guys, you guys, it's a very special moment in a lizard owner's life. Our little boy is starting to, what's the phrase? He's starting to, I always say this wrong, he's starting to brumate.

Congrats, man. So brumation is something that, boy, this is really hard to explain. It's your changing body. No, what happens is in the wintertime, it's like hibernation for lizards.

AlexOh. Oh.

MerlinSo he's starting. He's very still, and he has his eyes closed a lot, and we can't really play with them. He took a giant. I should send you the photo of the shit that he took, because it's absolutely. Oh, yeah. I'd like that. You guys want to see it? Yeah, yeah, please. Sure. He took the hugest shit. So he hadn't shot in like two weeks.

AlexOh, the poor thing.

MerlinAnd let's see. My wife sent me a photo of the shit. Me too. Where can I find it? No, it's really big. And the thing is, we've been giving him some hornworms. and i think some of the things in here might be organs from the hornworms but i'm not sure interesting um where's the giant shit um so anyway it's been hard to like do stuff and like play with him because he's mostly getting ready to sleep and he's been really loggy but with that said holy shit you've made our family so happy you sent the greatest you guys have sent the greatest

Alexstuff to the lizard boy nothing has arrived for you i've put in the super secret text channel what I sent, but none of it has arrived.

MerlinSo we're just going to be talking about the gifts. Oh, it's all been pure Max and Veronica so far? You're such good friends!

AlexAlright. So Veronica and I

Maxthought, you know, I thought for a long time so first of all I did some research on what lizard's like, and then I thought for a long time I was like, you know, playing with the lizard is as much about you as it is about the lizard. True. It's more for you than

Merlinthe lizard. I've just haunted the chain with the biggest shit.

MaxThere's no like, you didn't put like a penny next to it.

MerlinZoom in.

MaxOh, no. No, but what's the scale that I'm looking at?

MerlinOh, sorry. I don't care. What am I looking at here? That's probably a couple inches across. It's usually like a bird poop.

AlexOh, my God.

MerlinNo, that is not a couple inches across.

AlexThat is organ diarrhea. Oh, my God.

MerlinIs it always this likely? The more you zoom in, the more upsetting it is.

AlexYeah.

MerlinIs he okay? It's really bad.

AlexOh, yeah.

MerlinHe's getting ready to roommate. This is common. You take a giant shit, you get sleepy. This is a really big shit, just so you guys know.

AlexUh-huh. Uh-huh. Okay.

MerlinIt's usually like, imagine like a bird poop.

MaxIs it, if you put a U.S. corridor next to it, would it be bigger than that? Oh, call the cops.

MerlinBuddy, buddy, normally when he poops, it's like the size of two knuckles of your pinky maybe. Uh-huh. Maybe. This is, this is like the size of a baby's fist. No. Okay. All right.

AlexWait, wait.

MerlinWait, can you see next to it? Can you see?

Alexon the side? Is that the habitat?

MerlinThat's his water bath thing?

AlexOh no, it's even bigger than you're describing, I think. Oh, it's huge.

MerlinIt's a huge, huge shit. And I feel it looks like a kidney in there. Maybe he shot a kidney, but I think it's hornworm bits.

AlexWell, there's a part that it looks like there's... You can't show a kidney,

Merlincan you? If you really zoom in, really zoom in, you'll see. If you stare into the shit, it will stare back at you. Oh, it's runny in the upper right. Look at the runny stuff. Yeah. No, he was overdue and he's fixing to brewmate. So, yes, let's talk about it. Oh, my God. So, oh, my God. Thank you, Alex. This is so nice. Can I quickly? Oh, my God. You sent me something that I just bought him for this project. Oh, my gosh. We got doubles.

AlexSo, I was instructed to get a, like, overall hammock rope climbing and leafy, like, relaxation kit. It's basically like a little furniture set situation. And I know that you have a leash already.

MerlinThat's like a bedroom suite for a wizard. It is.

AlexIt is. Yes, yes. And I know you have a leash for Bando, but he doesn't have dragon wings.

MerlinHe does now. I got him that too. That's what I bought him.

MaxAnd then I was like, oh, wait, but Savvy needs to match. Oh, look at this. So then I'm sure she's going to love this.

MerlinOh, she's going to love. Oh, look at that. Even the cat in the picture doesn't look happy.

AlexIt's bat wings for a cat. No, they're dragon wings. They're dragon wings. Dragon wings.

MerlinCat dragon wings.

AlexYep, yep. And this, oh, it's hard to tell unless you click on it, but I guess it's like 50-50 whether lizards like soft things. So it's kind of like a tiny, tiny, tiny cat bed. Oh, it's so sweet. Yeah. And it looks like a lizard.

MerlinIt's a cat bed for a little animal.

AlexYeah, yeah.

MerlinOh, again, hard to see scale.

AlexI know, I know. So it seems, based on photographs I've seen, I think also your cat could fit in this.

MerlinPart of her could.

AlexSo we'll see.

MerlinOh, it's a chinchilla. So this is Jan Yu chinchilla hedgehog guinea pig bed accessories cage toys bearded dragon house hamster supplies habitat ferret rat.

AlexYep.

MerlinBy Jan Yu.

Everyone's favorite product.

MerlinThat's amazing. And then freeze dried crickets. Oh. Oh, boy. Then you keep scrolling down and you see this giant, giant shit photo that I sent.

AlexDid you see this happening? Like, did it take him a while?

MerlinNo, no. That's why she texted it to him. She's like, you're not going to believe this. Bandit just took the hugest shit.

AlexOh, no.

MerlinAnd I was like, that's amazing. This is epic. So to scale, if this were a person that had shot this, it would fill and cover the entire toilet.

MaxMerlin, I'm dying to know. did you get before the Brumo went into cremation did you get any

Merlindid you get any

Maxdid you get any time with any of the toys that we sent over or slash did any of the human toys where they did they go over

Merlinwell oh I thought I sent you all the photos of this I see I thought I thought that the thing the thing that my daughter was wearing was from Alex but it's I believe it was from Max now it's

Maxfrom Max and Veronica. Okay, the first thing we took out

Merlinand tried was something we'd been wanting to get for the longest time. You played with it wrong.

MaxGo on. I'm sorry. Did I interrupt? Go on.

MerlinIt's a big clear... He was full of shit! No, literally! This is like a quarter of his size, this shit. You know, per capita.

AlexI know.

MerlinSo we got a big clear plastic ball. You did not play with it right.

MaxYou didn't follow my instructions.

Merlinsometimes I mute a lot because it becomes a whole sort of distracting thing. I sent you a photo of Bando in the

Maxball before he cremated. But that's not how I said to you. Here's the deal. What you're supposed to do

Merlinis you put the horn... I understand. You're supposed to put crickets in it and have it chase it around. Or the hornworms.

MaxOr the hornworms.

MerlinYour phrase was, it drives them crazy. They go, yeah, inflames

Maxtheir passions.

MerlinListen, after he wakes up from slumber I will do it the right way I just, the hornworm

MaxWhen Bungo comes out of his Odin sleep I want you to put a hornworm in that ball

MerlinI love Bungo He's such a good boy

MaxOh Bungler When a Bungler comes out of When he comes out of his moratorium I want you to give him Give him the hornworm in the ball

MerlinListen, when Bilbo's done with his procreation The first thing that I will do Is jam him jam him startlingly into a clear ball. No, that's not.

MaxNo, you're doing it wrong.

MerlinYou're drawing the lizard wrong. So what are you saying? I put the hornworm in and then he's outside? Yes. So apparently the lizard. Oh, so it's a ball for a hornworm and he pushes it around.

MaxThat drives him crazy. So apparently lizards love playing with balls. And if you put their food in the ball, they go insane. There's some Kellogg's characters that like that too.

AlexYes, because you're keeping them from the food.

MaxOf course. What are you talking about? When you move a catnip mouse for your cat, what are you doing? You're tricking the cat's brain into thinking it's prey.

AlexOkay.

MaxAnimals love that shit.

AlexI put, let's say, a McRiddle behind a clear, just a glass window. I'm not a lizard. I don't shit out a kidney.

MerlinDo you want it, Max? Do you want the McRiddle? I do want it. I'm not a lizard. I'm not a lizard.

MaxLizards enjoy things differently than people enjoy things.

MerlinTry it. Put it in a ball and see what he does.

MaxYou put the hornworm in the ball and the lizard plays with the ball. It drives him insane. Think about this.

MerlinI just see him running around the office bent over kicking it.

MaxYour precious boy, oh Bumbler, he doesn't have, he doesn't hunt. He's a lizard.

MerlinHe literally has a lizard brain.

MaxHe cannot express his true lizard nature unless he gets to hunt and murder his prey. Oh, and that's the ball. The ball is his prey. The thrill of the hunt and the victory, the thrill of victory.

AlexYeah. Yeah, because hitting that clear place.

MerlinOkay, so I misunderstood. I'll play with it right. Thank you. What other things? So many other things. First of all, the shirts, the T-shirts are a huge hit. My daughter wore one to school today.

MaxWhich ones? What did they say?

MerlinShe slept in the other one last night. Oh, God. What did they say? One of them says.

MaxOne of them. Veronica, I couldn't stop laughing at it. It was made specifically for you. Okay. I don't have them in front of me. Read them to me.

MerlinOh, shit. One was like, I work hard so my lizard can have a better life or something like that. I have to go into my Amazon. And it's got a really cool looking 90s lizard with sunglasses, chilling and having a drink.

MaxYeah, the amount of lizard shit that you can buy on Amazon is unbelievable.

MerlinFor my kid's birthday, I was going to get one that says, Respect the beard, and it's got a lizard on.

MaxDid you get the one about the other one? What did the other one say? That's the one she's wearing to school today. It says, You got a dog? That's cute. I raised tiny dinosaurs.

MerlinYep, yep, yep, yep. Also, a lizard costume. Let's see if this will work for me. So I sent it to Alex, but I guess I should have sent it to –

MaxOh, did you get the picture for his taco?

AlexOh, yes, yes, yes.

MerlinNo, that was amazing. So let's see here. Max. No, it would have been our super secret private tech. Yeah. Oh, God, that shit is really big. Okay. Yeah, where is it? Okay, let me see if I can find it on my phone.

Oh, a lizard mask? A very, very upsetting lizard mask.

MaxI thought Bando might allow you to look at you. I thought maybe it would do something for him to look at you in the mask. That's the only things that can inflame his passions.

MerlinThe thing about Bungo, the only way to inflame his passions is to let him chase a worm in a ball or see a man in a mask.

MaxBut, you know, he loves you. But what would he think if you but if you look like a lizard, it might help him to love you more.

MerlinNow, he might want to kiss me. Did you get any other lizard accessories? Oh, yeah. Hang on. I'm just trying to find the picture of her in the outfit because it's kind of cute. The lizard or your daughter? Yes. Let's see here. Where is it? Where is she? Am I having a stroke? Did I not take this photo?

AlexNo, yeah. It's not in this one. Is it in the other one? Whoa. What is happening?

MerlinShe's in the kitchen. She's making cookies.

AlexWhere is the photo? There's a baby dressed as Max. Oh, I did see this. It's Halloween. Oh, I love the baby. Why? That was so funny.

MaxThat was so funny.

AlexWhy?

MaxMore people should dress as me for Halloween, honestly.

MerlinI totally agree. I don't think I sent you this one. There it is. It's in Dream Team. Oh. Oh, okay. That explains it. I love this one. This is a fun one. Dream Team. Okay. God, there's so many fucking channels. Oh, my God. Most of them are muted. That's why I'm confused. Oh, they're all muted.

MaxDon't worry about that. Okay. Oh, yeah.

MerlinThere she is with her big head. Yeah, that's from 1027.

MaxIs that right?

MerlinWait, the email's over. I'm clicking.

AlexOh, every photograph. I feel like he's getting larger. Do you...

MerlinHave you started?

AlexI mean, is this pre or post shit?

MerlinOh, wait. On my wife's shoulders?

AlexYes.

MerlinOh, pre shit.

AlexOh, okay.

MerlinI think it's pre shit. I'd have to check. Let me look. Let me look in the order here.

AlexBecause I'm wondering if maybe he's just been, you know, like saving it up.

MerlinI think he's doing a Gene Belcher superbowel, maybe, getting ready for his termination.

AlexOh, I see. Yes.

MerlinOh, that baby's so cute.

MaxBaby feet. Oh, so cute, baby. Good baby. Now, what about any sort of accessories for the lizard?

MerlinOh, accessories for the lizard. I'm trying to remember. We got, what else did we get?

MaxMaybe a little costume for the lizard, a little Halloween costume for the lizard.

MerlinOh, cowboy hat. Cowboy hat. Cowboy hat. here's one problem with the lizard is like he's pretty it's very rare to get any kind of a reaction from him and i kept thinking my my of course my daughter is going to put a hat on the lizard that that's something we've been wanting for a very long time he seemed to be neither as with the ball that i did wrong he seems to be neither pleased nor dismayed by almost anything so you put a hat on him that's the life i'd love to get there i know am i right he's always this is his

reaction to everything. You put him where you can look out the window.

AlexThere's a giant me.

MerlinYeah. Oh, so much good stuff. I can't wait till he comes out of his fumigation.

MaxSo no hat. You didn't put the hat on.

MerlinOh, God, yes. Did I not send you a photo?

MaxOh, no, I didn't see it. I'm sorry.

MerlinThere's too many channels and one of them has shit

Maxin it. It's like a terrible magic trick. I want to see the lizard in the hat, please. what about the hand there was the hammock and there was he now has four hammocks because alex

Merlinhas one on the way yeah loves loves the hammock he likes hanging out the styrofoam wall but he also likes he mainly just puts his hands up on the hammock and he goes huh like that

Alexdo you think he's trying to still feel out like his his life because he's moved around quite a

Merlinbit right yeah i yeah absolutely and i think where's the where are my photos what's happening What the?

AlexI mean, as we know, photos doesn't recognize lizards. You should come to Android.

MaxOh, I sent you guys 100 fake cockroaches.

MerlinOh, that was you. Because sometimes I come home and packages have been open and there were plastic stinky cockroaches everywhere. And I went, what is this? And my wife says, for Halloween, I put them out. So I think there's been some kind of a game of the opposite of telephone where nobody talked to anyone else and it was just assumed that somebody got roaches.

Where's the hat? It's so cute. Where is it?

AlexI'm like, can you just spread this?

MerlinI just come home and there's roaches.

MaxSomebody from Florida, that's not that fun.

MerlinIt's not that fun to see a lot of roaches.

MaxI thought maybe Bando would enjoy, you know, like how a human has a stuffed animal? Yes. I thought maybe Bando would have like a stuffed roach.

MerlinA roachie.

MaxA roachie.

MerlinNext time you invite Pam. I can't find the ad photo. I feel like I'm losing my goddamn mind.

MaxI don't think you sent that one to us.

AlexHold on. Hold on. All right. Let's see. Let's.

MerlinThey sent it to me. Oh, you know why? Ha ha. I know why. I know why some of this is happening. There's too many threads. And I think this is something my family sent to me. So let's try this. There's me wearing VR goggles. Not very cool. What'd you play?

AlexOh, boy.

MerlinI got a for my kid for her. Remember I was talking about that cube?

MaxYeah. The merge cube.

MerlinOh, yeah.

MaxAnd so I was trying it out. It's pretty cool. Oh, you were playing with the – what VR set did you get?

MerlinOh, I just got the goggles where you put your phone in it.

MaxOkay.

MerlinYeah. It's pretty basic. Look at that. Look at him in the hat. Look at that.

MaxThat's a handsome boy.

MerlinYeah. There's a new – like Kevin said, there's a new sheriff in town. Could you put the hat over the shit and it would fit in there? You would still have shit around the hat. No. It's that big? It's pretty big. Pretty big. The nice thing is sending you these photos has moved the poop out of the thread part that I can see, which is really a mitzvah.

AlexOh, man.

MerlinGood challenge. Now, when he comes out of his... Did you see him in the ball? How long does his Odin sleep last? It could vary. It varies by lizard and time, and he might do it more than once.

MaxHmm.

AlexHmm. I'm still confused. Does voiding his bowels help him sleep? Or is it that he's shrinking his tummy so that he doesn't have to eat as much? I don't understand.

MerlinI'm in the doc, and I'm going to click on the link that I posted there about brumation. And the bearded dragon brumation, I'm clicking. Boy, everybody's going to know.

MaxGuys, if our listeners take one thing away from this, it's don't forget to brumate your lizards.

Thank you.

156. Survivor: Epstein Island

Show notes

Transcript

156. Survivor: Epstein Island

Show notes

Transcript

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