81. The Human Version of a Minimalist Desk

AlexThis is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, use Instagram.

MerlinHello? I'm waiting for call recorder.

Speaker AHey everybody, how's it going? gotta wait several seconds for you talk

Alexwait really oh yeah let's talk about skype on a podcast that's always fun well you asked

Merlinis the thing you did is everybody cranky today what's wrong with you guys you guys seem cranky what's going on i'm not cranky no that's your secret you're always cranky did you guys read

Maxthat um anna delvey um story that i sent yesterday no i started and then it made me sad

Alexand I figured you would summarize it for us.

MerlinIt's really, it's a 33 minute read. I read 34 minute read. I read it very quickly, but that's a hell of a story. So it makes me very sad.

MaxLet me just, just to summarize. So I sent you guys the story and then Alex, it was too sad for you to read and Merlin, it was too long for you to read.

AlexThat's correct. Okay.

MaxI don't know. No, I just liked it. I thought that that story was like, I don't know. I just, I thought.

MerlinYou made me use Instagram, and then you sent me something that took 34 minutes to read, and I'm the bad guy. I'm the bad guy. I was on time. I was on time. If you guys are going to be cranky, I'm going to be silly, so I have to warn you. I'm not cranky. No, I'm going to break up your cranky with silly, and it's going to make you even madder.

AlexI just ended up texting from a restroom, and that's no one's fault but my own, and now I just want to call Dr. Don and be like, what do I need to do to make myself feel clean? It's, yeah.

Merlinwash and then sanitize

Alexexactly it's not the same thing

Maxoh I was gonna talk I want to talk about the Anna Delvey story yeah this is a very interesting

Merlinstory of a woman who got

Maxcaught acting rich it's in one of those like publications that I feel like two years ago it would have been on Medium but now I think they have their own website and it's what's it called the slip or the papers or something

Merlinyou're good at naming things The Cut frequently has very, very good stuff right alongside, like, here's a nice pair of shoes articles. It's really interesting.

MaxSo, yeah, basically, it's just a story. I almost don't want to spoil it because I want all of our listeners to get to go read it for themselves and get all the surprises. We can talk about it in the after show. That's all right. I think we can talk about it without spoiling too much. But it's a story of this young woman who shows up in New York and I guess leads people to believe that she's like a wealthy heiress and she runs up huge bills at hotels.

MerlinShe's at a very fancy hotel, $30,000 a month. Every single person she encounters, she gives a $100 tip. She's buying tons of fancy stuff. She's sidled up with the concierge, and she's just spending money like a doorknob in a wet sweater.

AlexAnd all in cash, right?

MaxYeah. Well, no. She has credit card scams and stuff going, too. But also, she's rubbing elbows with all these celebrities and New York elite. and like wasn't she hanging out with like with like uh pharma martin shkreli the pharma bro and all and like all just

Merlinjust all it was like shkreli but i don't think it was i don't think it was martin but it was a shkreli wait no you're right wait wait wait recognize the face of his introduced yeah you're right it was the shkreli i thought he looked different in that picture less weasley is that him

Maxless less oily and weasley he's kind of an oily guy and she put all the anyway it just anyway i think it's safe to say I think it tells you in the first paragraph. So this isn't a huge spoiler, but all is not as it seems. And I don't know. I just thought it was an article that was like, I thought it said a lot about about success and like America right now. And just like everyone's ideas about about fairness. I don't know. I feel like everyone's like running some sort of scam. Everyone's everyone's got some sort of scheme.

MerlinI'd like to hear more about what you particularly found interesting, but it's true. And the thing that really stuck out to me, I think, by design, by the writer, was that she wasn't very nice. I think one of the phrases they said, please and thank you, were not in her vocabulary. She kind of liked being seen spending money and being a big shot. And she liked the fact that everybody was very – she's 27 years old, of course. And she likes the fact that everyone is very deferential to her. And she's not a very nice person. She wants to do a startup. She's very ambitious.

MaxOh my god, her startup idea It sounded like, honestly It sounded like the worst place in the world It was a six story Art gallery where you would have to Pay for a membership And then there would be restaurants And tea bars and stuff inside It sounded like a horrible, horrible place

MerlinYeah, it's sort of like If Gwyneth Paltrow had made Saw

Speaker AWalk over to the goop wall And take down the astringent product that you think will most effectively get your butt meat into the portcullis.

You need to do a purge.

MaxBut can you fit this jade egg inside your vagina?

Speaker AIf you want to accommodate the lingam in your yoni, you're going to require a full purge.

AlexI'm sounding a little appealing now.

Maxum let me ask you guys this do you feel like do you feel like we're missing out that you know you look at the news and everyone's on some sort of scam or scheme or bullshit right everyone's got some sort of angle that they're working you know michael cone he's got his consulting company right

Merlinoh you feel like you might be missing out that you don't have enough side hustle is that what

Maxyou're thinking just yeah it's like it's like should we be into something i mean i don't know I feel like we're I feel like we're I don't want to be a sucker so like recording a podcast that

Alexgenerally is free but then charging people five dollars a month to listen to it something like that I mean the thing is okay here's it would never work it would never work it would never

Merlinwork nobody would pay for that but I mean Jose Canseco has had an ICO um there's a lot there's a lot of things there's a lot of things that are going even the people who make podcasts don't make podcasts anymore like Roman Mars he's always got somebody else doing his podcast now like what are we doing we're suckers we show up here every goddamn wednesday and we record this program and you know where's our parade we should be seeing a 10x 10x return on what we're doing for sure

Maxi think it could be pretty funny if we have you know how occasionally we have guests on dubai friday and sometimes we'll reach out to someone and be like oh uh you know mike hurley dr don you know come on come on dubai friday and teach us about germs or our pens or whatever bullshit that into and and what if we do that but we don't show up and so they and then it's sort of like we play well how about this so they get on the theme they get on the um they get on the skype and we have producer chris rolls the the theme music and then it's just silence it's just awkward silence they

probably they would do an episode of do right friday can you imagine how terrible the after

Merlinshow would be they've been sitting there for like an hour and a half and then they have to do another 40 minutes.

Speaker AIt'd be so confusing. You just hear, Chris, producer Chris would just go, after show. Hello? Do you see what I'm saying? Hello? God, you guys.

MaxThey'd probably do a whole episode of Dubai Friday for us and we don't even have to show up, right? We sleep in. Well,

Merlinwe call it, we call it a special, we call it a special episode and we charge everybody twice.

AlexOh. It's sad because it would work.

MerlinYeah, it would work. It would work.

Speaker AI'm Roman Mars. Here's another show from Radiotopia. I'm Roman Mars. Here's someone else. Really? Fucking really?

AlexOh, yeah. I mean, you need that lovely, like, Roman ASMR at the beginning, you know.

MerlinAnd then you just play a different podcast.

Speaker AWe're really excited about this new show that's coming to the network.

MerlinHere's six episodes.

Speaker AReally? Really on the media? On the media, you're going to put a fucking podcast about a TV show in the feed?

Merlinthe whole series oh that was very strange who does that it's got you have to stop you must stop if you don't like doing podcasts you should stop doing them get some side hustle you get a credit card you create an immersive experience well first of all step zero you guys it seems to me that like did did did did did Anna Delvey we need to get a PR firm we need a PR firm that can do things like

Maxmake a birthday party well let me ask you this Merlin yes let me ask you this it's I know I recognize that there's a little bit of a chicken and an egg situation here but can you do the the pr firm before the life coach or really i mean what's the point of having the pr firm if you're not fired if you don't have your full energy working for you right right right it's a really

Merlingood point like you may not have the wherewithal to hire someone to hire a pr firm for you if you're not on your physical and mental and coaching game you need that to get started but then how How even are you going to throw a party for your coach if you don't have a PR firm?

MaxAm I my best self?

MerlinAm I my best self? Am I living my best life? Yas Queen. I'm here for this.

MaxI watched The Bachelorette last night.

AlexNo! No!

MaxOh, yes. No? What? What? It's great. Nope. It's not great. Nope. It's great. Same mouth words. What'd you watch? I watched The Bachelorette, the new season that just started. And they introduced all the ding-a-lings. One guy showed up in a chicken suit. Nice. And the new bachelorette, she called someone's car a whip. And then she saged the house with other bachelorettes. And I was like, this is a lot. The culture is changing very quickly. And I'm feeling like an old man.

Speaker AI don't know how I feel about them.

MaxShe saged the house. I don't know how I feel about them calling cars whips and saging the house. Like, a lot's going on. Yeah.

AlexYou know what? This is the first time in 10 years that I've felt peer pressure to enjoy a thing because all of our writers watch this show. Max watches the show. Everyone wants to talk about Bachelor Nation. And every time I watch it, I feel like I need to take a shower afterwards. I'm so confused, Alex.

MerlinI thought you liked this show. You don't like this show?

AlexI did.

MerlinWe had to do that. We had to do that episode with that lady about the show. I thought you liked the show. I'm confused.

AlexI did until I was. You know what? It was like The Wizard of Oz. I was suddenly like, oh, this is the best time.

MaxDid Ari break your heart, Alex? Was it Ari?

AlexHe didn't break my heart. He's terrible, like the majority of men. And I'm like, why are people surprised by this?

MerlinI don't like Ari either. She was really bad.

AlexHe, he, he.

MerlinExactly. That's what I meant when I said it.

AlexThe breakout trans character from The Bachelor. No, he was awful. Merlin, if you are going to watch anything from The Bachelor, or rather if you want to convince—

Speaker AWhich I definitely will.

AlexI know. You obviously want to watch this. But if there's any argument for the Bachelor franchise is truly the worst, it's watching a man try to get the attention of a woman who has locked herself in a bathroom and just keeps coming back. Hey, hey, buddy. You OK? You OK?

MerlinSounds almost like it's not a very good show.

AlexAlmost. Almost.

MerlinYou know, you're right, Max. It's ridiculous what we go through. I mean, and this lady, I mean, she kept it up for a pretty good while, right? Was it was it kind of compressed or how so

MaxWhat you mean the time I mean I think it was it was probably about a year and she was doing Bank fraud and credit card fraud and all kinds of what was where was she actually was she was a stolen Well, so what she so what she did was she was applying for I don't know enough about finance to explain this honestly So I'm probably gonna get this slightly wrong, but there's like there's like special kind There's like more powerful kinds of loans. Okay. You know, in Doctor Strange, where he, when he starts at the magic, at the wizard school

with the bald lady, he can just make the sparks fly out of his hands. But then when he becomes a powerful wizard, he can like turn back time. When you become, when you become really rich, when you're, when you become a little bit rich, you can make sparks, right? You get like loans, you get like a, like a boat loan or something like that. Right. But when you, when you get really rich, when you like really level up at the magic school, You can get like rich people loans for like more money with like no deposit or or no. Because you're part of the tribe, right?

I don't know because you have collateral.

MerlinYou're not some snark out there trying to make sparks or driving an Uber.

MaxYeah, you're like a lower risk. I don't really know how it works. But she basically what she did was she got like I think she accrued like she got some small amount of money from credit card debt and then somehow had like like a banker. She like seduced a banker into her web of lies to like write a letter on her behalf saying that she was that she was like a wealthy heiress. And then some other bank like wound up actually either almost giving her actually giving her a loan for like millions and millions of dollars.

Speaker AJeez.

MaxSo I mean, she's the article. Whatever. I don't fucking I don't care. The article ends and she's in Rikers Island now. So she got caught. It's not that bad. It's not that bad. She got caught and went to jail. immediately i just pictured the the writer's room of orange is the new black just scrambling like an alarm goes off and like all hands on deck everybody get into the writer's room we got to write an analog of this character into the new season of orange is the new black they're like five

Alexdon't you feel like on their criminals yeah well they had that character that was like martha stewart

Maxand i'm like what's going on oh they have so many like celebrity like they have so many like ripped from the headlines like sort of tragic backstory you know petty criminals who are in like a low security women's prison like she's just begging this woman is just begging to become part of orange is the new black and i bet she'd get a whole flashback sequence and it would show her crime and it would be sort of comical but then in the end it would really poignant and sad you know captain janeway's on there yeah she's great she's real good she's very good i'll say like there's not a lot of women in hollywood who you know she's had uh what's her what's her name

Kate Capshaw. No. Kate Capshaw?

MerlinKate Capshaw? Is it Capshaw? Kate Milligan. Kate Milligan? Who am I thinking of? Kate Mulgrew. Kate Mulgrew. There we go.

MaxThere's not many women in Hollywood who have had-

MerlinIs there a Kate Capshaw? That is a person, right? That's a person. Yeah.

MaxI think she played-

MerlinShe was in Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom. She played Catwoman. Okay.

AlexNo.

MaxNo, she played Batgirl in the one with George Clooney.

MerlinNo, I think you're thinking of Alicia Silverstone. She's the one in that Aerosmith video.

MaxOkay.

MerlinThat's the one where he has the rubber nipples, right?

MaxYeah. It's a very homoerotic. And then Arnold Schwarzenegger goes, do you know what killed the dinosaurs? The Ice Age.

I like that character. That's good. There's not a lot of women in Hollywood who have had like, she said like, Kate Mogers had like three acts in her life, right? Like she was like, I think she was like a hot.

MerlinWe can see that ad for the show with Ellen Barkin that I didn't know about until we started watching the basketball. And now they're advertising this. It's like you can have, you can be in your early 60s and be on TV. You just have to be a criminal mastermind with really bad makeup to make you look really craggy.

MaxYeah. She was like a soap opera star when she was young. And then when she was sort of.

MerlinI love her voice.

MaxAnd then when she was sort of older, she had a great run as as Captain Janeway. And there's a lot of this. You know, sometimes someone in like pop culture will like make some sort of like joke or observation. And then it just becomes like the one thing that everyone has on their note card that they love to repeat back to you like they know something. The thing that people say about about Catherine Janeway is that Kate that she was written poorly and that Kate Mulgrew played her like she had bipolar disorder. So she would be like really erratic.

And that's not, it's a rumor. It's not true. Cap Janeway is a great character and she's very consistent and very principled. I think she's one of the best Star Trek captains and one of the most interesting Star Trek captains in all of the series. But, and I came all grew. I thought did a, did a nice job with her and I maybe got bored towards the end. Like every, every cap TV, every actor. Yeah. Well, you do it for whatever, eight years. And yeah, of course you're going to get bored. But man, now she's got, now she's bad. And then she plays red. And that's also an amazing, like iconic character.

MerlinRussian.

MaxNo. Well, Red is, yeah, but not Kate Mulgrew.

MerlinAnd that's different from Kate Mulligan? Was that her name? Who's the one from Hawkeye? That's Kate Barton. Clara Barton was the nurse. Is that right? This reminded me of something I read in a short story class. Did you ever read Willa Cather's story, Paul's case?

MaxWait a minute. She did play. She did was the voice of Red Claw in Batman the Animated Series. Batman the Animated Series. Oh, you can also be voice talent.

AlexYeah.

MerlinShe played Red Claw. Did you guys ever read Paul's case?

AlexNo, what's that?

MerlinOh, it's a story about a little boy who runs away from home and wants to live a fancy life and then gets caught. I always think of that. When things like this come up, I always think of Paul's case. It's a very sad story.

AlexYeah, why are you guys just telling me to read sad stories?

MerlinI'm not telling you to do anything. I just want you to be happy. Did you ever get an iPhone case you like?

AlexNo, I really want them to send me.

MerlinI've never asked for anything free. Why do you do things like that? Why do you put up a picture of all your iPhone cases? Why do you do that?

AlexWe'll get to the next one.

MerlinHow's that going to end well, Alex? What's it in service of? What is this in service of?

AlexI want something free. Let's talk about something important. I want something free.

MerlinWhat I want.

AlexWhat I want.

Speaker AIt's a guarantee. Something free. You think too much of me, Michael. I am the hunted one.

Shit, that's canceled.

AlexIf we were the sons, who's amongst the three of us? Who's Sonny? Who's Michael? And who's Fredo? Oh, challenge. Yep. Okay.

MerlinI'm Donald Jr. Wait, who's Eric? Am I Eric? Eric Corleone. No.

Speaker AMy father tries to keep the drugs with the black people. my father loves all hand fruit except for oranges because that's when he dies my my father is a very respected man but he should have known to tell you it was a pimp and it was parsing

Merlinanyways okay so challenge challenge uh so brothers yes i don't know i think i think Well, I'm not going to say.

AlexI'm not going to say. I feel like Merlin has a very strong opinion about this, but doesn't want to say it. I'm not going to say it.

Speaker AI'm not going to be the one to say it.

AlexSpeak your truth, Merlin. Speak your truth.

Speaker AWell, I'm struggling with whether Max or I are Michael or Sonny. I'm smart. I'm smart, Mike. Not like people say. Not like everybody says. Give me a phone case. She was banging cocktail waitresses two at a time.

You don't talk to a man like Mo Green like that. I want an iPhone case.

MerlinI'm sorry, Max. I'm sorry.

Speaker ASorry I'm late. Man, it's a lot of money in this bag.

MaxI started watching The Sopranos again.

AlexOh, I never do that.

MaxDo you guys ever watch The Sopranos?

MerlinYeah, that was a good program.

MaxDid you watch it when it was on?

MerlinYes.

MaxWere you like a Sopranos guy and you smoked cigars and said gabagool? Of course I did.

Speaker ANo, I thought...

MaxI think my dad was a big Sopranos guy when it was on. I think he picked up some of them. He adopted some of the mannerisms of the Sopranos.

MerlinHow do you even begin to address that show and its influence and how well it did at what it tried to do? Not least, I mean, what we remember, we remember stuff like, oh, you know, Tony and his breathing and stuff. But, like, just what a, like, that cast. My God, that cast was so good. And you really cared about Meadow. And you really cared.

MaxYou know, it sounds dumb to say. But when I thought I've seen the Soprano, I did not watch it when it was on. I was too young, but I watched it when I was in college. I got, you know, some files fell off the back of a truck and I watched it and I was like and I was like and I liked it. I was I was really into it. I didn't like it. It didn't stick with me the same way as The Wire did, but I thought it was it was excellent. And now I'm going back and rewatching it for the first time. And you know, what's amazing is I sort of forgot the whole idea that he was in therapy the whole time.

Look, I remember it. I remember all the plot points.

MerlinThat was the initial conceit. It came out around the same time as that Robert De Niro movie. Analyze this. And that was the hook. Yeah, that was the hook. It was about mobsters and therapy.

MaxBut it's also, it's watching it again. So watching it the second time, I don't, I'm not really in suspense as to what's going to happen. And I don't really care as much about the family drama and all of that. Because I, you know, I know how it's going to end. And the therapy is clearly is the best part of the show. It's clearly why you care about this character and why everything matters. He just wants the ducks to come back. Oh my god. All the scenes with dr. Melfi are so funny and Good and well acted and have levels there's so many I remember. Oh my god. They're so good

And I anyway I started watching that show because people have been talking about it on Twitter and saying like this show is really Speaks to the current moment like all the themes that this show was about in America of like Corruption and decay and that everyone's got some sort of Anna Delvey kind of you couldn't do a

Merlina Scooby-Doo reboot at this point without being about the current climate.

MaxWell, I think this show I think this show This show really nailed it.

AlexMax keeps making me want to watch sad things where really I want to go home and just watch Steven Universe. The Sopranos is a comedy

Maxunless you're an idiot, in which case it's like a drama. Yeah, idiot.

AlexSorry I'm late. I can't tell you.

MerlinHey, Max, do you enjoy the fact that our super secret private text channel has become all about Dear Evan Hansen? Are you enjoying that? I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I know, that's why it's fun. That's why it's fun. It's about broken arms and trees.

AlexI know. What the fuck are you talking about? It's when you guys go off on a political tangent. All they see is sky. I love it. All they see is sky forever. Forever.

MaxForever. Forever. Forever. Is this the movie where the people dance?

Speaker AYes.

MaxMm-hmm.

Speaker AWe're not gonna pay rent. We're not gonna pay rent. We owe some rent. We're not going to pay it.

AlexDancing on the tables. I love Rent. I love it. It's so. Oh, have you ever seen the feature film Mamma Mia?

MerlinMamma Mia.

AlexHere we go again.

MerlinI haven't seen the feature film Mamma Mia.

AlexNo. My, my.

MerlinHow could I forget you?

AlexI should.

MerlinI enjoyed the music of ABBA. And that's got the Meryl Streep in it, right?

AlexYes, it does. And it is not popular to like this movie, but I really enjoy it. And there's a sequel.

MerlinYeah, I know.

MaxWe saw the trailer. It looked really good.

Speaker AI'm so excited for it.

MaxDid they call it Grandma Mia?

Alexyou're so good at that what is it called is it mama mama mia

Maxgone wine

Speaker Athat's a spicy meatball

Merlinmama mia mama mia tokyo drift

Speaker Amore mama more mia two mama two mia two mama two mia two mama mia That's stupid.

AlexThat's stupid.

Speaker ACut that out. That's a bad movie.

MerlinI did not enjoy it. Oh, Alex, it's so difficult, and our process is so difficult, because as I tried to explain poorly, we're doing the Hamilton approach, so we're listening a lot to the first few songs and moving out in concentric circles. I'm making her stay in Act One, and I'm only reading enough of the plot, because it's not clear what's happening. I thought Forever was about a gay thing. What are you actually talking about? What are you actually talking about? A musical. It's a musical called Dear Evan Hansen about a kid with extreme social anxiety and the effects of social media And what's is it new is it out? What is it last year came out last year?

AlexIt won all of the Tonys for when Kevin Spacey hosted and they wanted to distract from Kevin Spacey And they're like look at the young kids winning these awards

MerlinAnyway, it's probably not in your wheelhouse, but it breaks my heart You can't just go see a play and like in your house. They should watch plays in your house Who says you have to go to a theater for theater?

AlexI know. God forbid you have a one-time unique experience with a crowd of people.

MerlinFrom your mouth to God's ear.

AlexConnor. Do you ever see musicals? No. But why? Because I have things I have to do. I understand, but it seems like a thing that your entire family would enjoy.

MerlinOh, I should take care of it to that, yeah.

AlexNo, not to Hamilton.

MerlinWhat about 13 Reasons Why?

Alexis that in theaters now oh god oh i i've never been like don't watch something please like i've never i'm glad you i'm glad you gave me the heads up i i don't know if you're serious or not but i was like i can see i can see a kid watching this and just going i allow a lot of problematic things

Merlinit's if if they're interesting and well done and it's mainly about curses um i usually allow it

Alexmostly it's not max have you watched the program 13 reasons why do you know what we're talking

Maxabout. I'm reading the Wikipedia entry for Kate Mulgrew. Did you get that photo I sent?

AlexOh, yes. That is an attractive lady. I really like her best.

MerlinI wouldn't throw her out of bed for beaming me down. I always feel like I'm really at the top of my game when I search for the name of an actress and the word young after it.

AlexKate Mulgrew Young. I feel like we do that at least once a month. I feel good about myself afterwards. Feet.

MaxGoogle young Stalin

AlexOh

Speaker AThat is a handsome man Let's see That's a good name for a band

AlexHoly shit Oh my goodness

MerlinHe looks like he works at a butcher shop in Portland

MaxYeah he looks like he works at a Starbucks reserve store And he's wearing like a trilby

Speaker Ai've made a hammer and sickle in your latte please do please do not tip me it makes everything worse young young stalin can get it

Merlinyes queen i'm here for someone these photographs of young stalin are everything right now you sure that's him did they do a melania on him i'm on he looks different he looks different

AlexI don't know. You just have to imagine him with a big mustache. And then he looks very similar.

MerlinBut his eyes got more narrow. He's so full of hope here. He could be in a Dear Evan Hansen.

AlexOh.

MerlinOh.

AlexOh, there's a Tumblr called Fuck Yeah Young Stalin. Cool.

Speaker ANice.

AlexHow normal. This is not normal.

MaxYou will be found. Digga, digga, digga, digga. Follow up. CNN Politics. the Republican nominee for a US House seat in Illinois has said that the September 11th terrorist attacks were an inside job and that singer Beyonce Knowles has ties to the Illuminati Bill Fowell Bill Fowell is running against incumbent Democratic Representative Sherry Bustos in Illinois' 17th district where she won by 20 points in 2016 even though the district also voted narrowly for Donald Trump Fowell won

his uncontested primary in March let's see if I have the CNN article he had some funny some further funny uh details in his uh book um in a february 2013 post on the blog of a political action committee he established in 2012 called elect a new congress fowell said that beyonce's husband rapper jay-z quote has a long history of serving up the godless illuminati and shared a youtube video that speculated that beyonce's upcoming halftime performance at the superbowl would have illuminati symbolism i missed that part that's super

Merlininteresting i heard in actuality he caused his mother a lot of pain um the conspiracy people man it's i i i mean i i think i get i get conspiracies that explain away finance i don't agree with them but all like rothschild stuff like that taps into some kind of like not only do i not like jewish people but they're the reason i don't have a coal mining job anymore like i understand that some of these other things i just it really seems like a troubled mind

Alexi mean how can you like no rational mind would think that like i i don't know i don't understand

Maxyou're saying i mean i've i've considered the possibility that 9-11 was uh was some sort of was some sort of conspiracy but then i but it didn't hold up to scrutiny and yeah it's like

Alexyou looked at facts and figures and we're like okay no well it's just it's just it's also just

MaxSo think about this. Like I've worked on – I've been in situations where I was like – how do I put it? I was like I've been in like sensitive like high-level situations where I was like right in the middle of it. And there was like – like here's a story from the Obama campaign in 2008 because that was a time when I was like – I very much felt like I was like right in the middle of the world and all the information was right there and everyone wanted it. And I was right there walking to work every day. And there was like some situation where there was like a fundraiser or a party and I think some interns got busted drinking.

And they might have been underage. I can't remember. And the campaign the next day sent an email out and they said, new policy, no interns are allowed to drink even if they're over 21 under any circumstances. And even if you're off work, never take a picture of yourself drinking or let it get out. And and they also like it was like one of the only times on the camp where they explicitly said you know We're really trying to not have people know about this So please use discretion and don't talk about this outside of the office and we would just not like it to become a Scandal that our interns were having a beer at this event or whatever

And of course by the end of the day it was on CNN Obama interns, you know busted drinking or whatever So like even that's like not even a bit That's like a completely innocuous lie that like didn't even hurt the campaign and

MerlinIt's like as an April Ludgate level crime

MaxIt's just it's it's it's not it's just not it's like nothing right but it's like we just so desperately wanted that to stay in the building and it couldn't be done Someone opened their mouth or some reporter heard the story or something and it got out You're telling me that there's a bunch of people in the military and in the West Wing who coordinated at the highest levels like a False flag attack a targeted strike to take down the world trade to have like set these patsies up to fly two airplanes in the World Trade Center And a bunch of people know about it. No, not a single detail about it Yeah, it's only like YouTube videos about loose change

No, no, no, no, there's no fucking way

MerlinI've said probably too many times I always get the feeling people who are very into conspiracy theories have never had to do any project management Like if you have a hundred percent buy-in

Yeah, okay, you still can't get people to look at the Gantt chart Yeah, you still can't get people to like send their fucking thing in for the newsletter that they promised they would give you and like But you got two planes to fly into a building and George Bush orchestrated it?

MaxYou know, Merlin, you've got secret conspiracy, cost, and high body count. Pick two.

MerlinOh, pick two. You know what? Secret conspiracy triangle. A lot of people don't know the triangle actually has five sides.

MaxI've always said that the one that people don't pick is usually the one that they know the least about.

MerlinThe one that they know the least about, you're saying they shorten that one?

Speaker AMm-hmm.

MerlinHuh. I heard that if you get an email too many times and you go, oh, you should create a filter. That's what I heard. Okay, so, diga, diga, diga, follow up. I've sent you pictures of young versions of mini dictators and killers and mass murderers. So now we have before us, we have young Stalin, young Lenin, young Putin, young Hitler, and young Pol Pot. Who is the most fuckable? Oh, it's Stalin for sure. I don't know. Lenin seems like a gentle lover. Doesn't he seem like he just really get in there?

MaxHe's got it. He is an egghead. He looks like a he's like one of these guys who's like balding by the time

MerlinHe's 24. It looks like somebody like I don't know It's okay. He's got a kind of Leonardo DiCaprio, but also appreciate the Putin I can already hear him explaining the

MaxMerits of different animes versus each other to me

Speaker AActually, Conalingus is not this one is this one isn't as good

MaxBut you have to watch it first in order to understand the next one to understand this

Speaker Ayou must know that the entire first season is shit. It gets real good in the middle of season two, but you have to get the subs, not the dubs. Look at Putin. Putin's like fucking 12 and he already has a coma.

AlexYou know what? Here's the thing. If he is over 18, he's Jack from Titanic. He is the most. He's a gentle lover. He's a kind individual. He fights against the status quo. Look at where I'm going. Look at how handsome he is. Look at that little, the part. Whoa, who's this? Whoa, who's that?

MaxI think Ho Chi Minh is very handsome. Oh, Ho Chi Minh. I think Ho Chi Minh is very handsome. He was very charismatic. He also is a good part. He has a perfect porcelain face. He looks like a Westworld host.

AlexYeah, he must have had some sort of like Facetune app.

MaxYou know they cast these actors on Westworld. It's like one of the best cast shows. They cast these people that are like too beautiful for TV. Oh, like that lady with the bug eyes.

MerlinMy Westworld girlfriend, the one robot prostitute lady. Oh. The lady in the saloon.

MaxOh. Not much of a rind on you, girl. What's her name? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She gets drilled. They drill her. But you're right about the casting. Yeah, it's the same thing they did in my beloved Starship Troopers when they cast Denise Richards. like that's one of the best castings in any movie ever because she can like barely act and she's like way too hot she's like the and that other guy who looks like uh like a hitler youth like

they were the per i mean it's one of those brilliantly cast like her flat demeanor and her the way she looks and acts in that movie is one of the funniest most brilliant things in the world but anyway that's how ho chi min looks to me he looks like a westworld host okay yeah yeah none of that made any sense to anyone sorry um what about when denise richards was a nuclear

Alexphysicist in the james bond movie oh i was very into that when did this show become just talking about young women who are hot especially when they were younger i think ho chi min's a woman

Merlini'm not you know i think you're i think you're misgendering ho chi min i think that's why make some assumptions a little bit off brand for you ho chi min likes to be called they

Maxum google google 1998 denise richards i know we've done this oh we have i got distracted

Merlinthat's okay how about young denise richards oh god it's so gross it's so gross there's so many

Alexof her in a swimming suit oh it's so gross oh she loves to swim alex she really really loves to swim oh she really likes bathing suits she doesn't have a lot of loose tops oh yeah no no

Merlinthis is not i'm so you didn't really answer my question so you're you're saying definitely

Alexyou would uh you would bone down with uh with stalin he looks he he looks like um a soft stud

Merlinlesbian yeah yeah right you know you're saying you say you're saying you wouldn't go down the ho chi minn trail uh no that's what he that's what he likes to call it who am i forgetting is there anybody i'm leaving out oh how about let's say maybe young uh young gerbils uh oh oh i have oh boy look at that guy look at that guy who's the big guy who's the big guy um uh himmler young himmler i love that show that's a spinoff from big bang theory

Alexyoung himmler something that makes me feel good is that donald trump has always looked weird uh He's just never looked like a normal human.

MaxHe looks like a Habsburg child. Have you guys ever seen the Habsburgs? Yes. Yeah. He has like weird, he has like a weird Google Habsburgs. Okay. He looks like he was put together from parts. Doesn't he have like a lumpy asymmetrical face?

AlexHe's like a first generation Westworld host.

MaxOh, look at the Habsburgs.

Speaker AOh, that's precious. Oh, yes.

MerlinYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the Spanish, who's the Spanish family that's in all the Baroque paintings? Is it Prince Philip, I want to say? King Philip?

MaxLike Jen says about Donald Trump that he looks like he's completely made of ground beef all the way through.

MerlinGoogle King Philip Spain. He looks kind of like Fred Gwynn. We had a really nice Baroque museum right across the street from my college I used to go to all the time.

MaxOh, yeah. Hell yeah.

MerlinYeah, yeah, yeah.

MaxHell yeah. Good Baroque. We had some Rubens. King Philip can get it.

Merlinoh my way

MaxKing Philip's a snack you're so here for this

Alexoh my goodness

Merlinhis face is very angular he could really get in there just wedge it in

Alexyeah that's the thing you gotta have the pointy chin look at that

Merlinoh I see what you're saying

Alexyep

Merlinit's an extreme restraints thing

Alexthe problem is is that what are the big puffy collars called. Oh. Yeah, that would create some barrier issues.

MaxBig, puffy colors. Oh, it's like if your cat has surgery and can't lick

Alexthemselves. Mm-hmm. Yes.

MaxIs that what that's for? It's called a rough.

MerlinA rough is an item of clothing worn in Western Europe from the mid-16th century to the mid-17th century. That's all? That's all the

Alexrough we got? Oh, that seems

Merlinwrong. Oh, you should wear this, Alex. You'd look good in this.

AlexI think so.

MerlinYou can have a Dutch... You know what you need? you need a dutch rough get a dutch rough uh okay look at that look at that dutch rough all right we have to talk about the challenge we can't keep google we can't keep google image searching relax relax we got a lot more to talk about first you have to tell me it's okay to

Alexobjectify them if they're dead right or if it's a painting if it's a painting then it's it's kind

Maxof like this podcast this podcast can't turn into us google image searching things and then making

Alexfun of them that no i like the dutch i don't think we've had we haven't had a meeting about it or

Merlinanything yeah um max which mandoline should i get and yes i know to be careful with it um isn't there what is there like one baller brand you're supposed to get well so i don't have the there's

Maxthere's probably i actually don't know a ton about this oh is it the ben renner yeah the ben renner and what you want to get is um it's this it's an aqua one huh yeah you get that little green yeah it's the ben reiner mandolin slicer here i'm putting it on amazon it's 38 dollars um and you don't really need to use the little guard right good lord i mean i'll tell you i mangled my hand on it we have one of our writers andy just mangled his hand on it max i think you

Merlinstipulated that anyone who has ever owned one has cut off part of their finger at least once what is happening got some buzz somebody's got an xlr there's like

Maxbuzz and feedback yeah bleep bleep me oh there we go now oh you know it's cool

Merlinalex uh you know i listened to your show with brett terpstra and i bought a couple different new lights for my sad listen listen to what happens when i turn on this one at work

Alexyou hearing that oh no that's terrible dimmer switch

Maxno all right listen if you get the mandolin if you get the mandolin please get these chainmail gloves okay chainmail gloves would be so baller they're they're they're not oh you have to use them you have to use them because i i swear to god like even when i went to the er when i mangled my hand with this thing i mean i sliced the tip of my finger clean off into the potatoes and when I went to the ER the nurse that treated me saw was like oh yeah the mandolin I hurt my

hand on one of those and then they got like a hand surgeon or hand specialist to come and look at me and that guy was like oh yeah the mandolin I hurt myself on one of those too like everyone who came into the room had a story about hurting themselves on the mandolin like it's almost 100% guaranteed that if you don't use this chainmail glove you will cut part of your hand so they're calling

Merlinthis green one a vegetable slicer but can I still cut meat on it if I want oh yeah look at the Amazon

AlexLike demo photos what are what are those called? Yeah, there's

Speaker AAll I wanted an iPhone case that's different than all the other ones

MaxNot like people say here's the thing with them cutting yourself on the mandolin too is the you'll take so you'll take some countermeasures to Protect yourself like you'll be like okay I will have my fingertips nowhere near the blade and I'll use to a little protector thing I'll go really slow and here's the thing is that then what's gonna happen is you're gonna angle your hand weird and you're gonna A lot of people also cut the back of their palm on it or their wrist or something because they catch it because they're doing it a weird angle to protect the rest. These things are a fucking death trap. I still use it, but but use the glove and just be God.

MerlinBe so careful. I'm getting gloves. I should probably get a medium. I bet I'm a medium. Yeah. The problem is like my pho technique. I want to be able to cut up my own very, very thin steak at home.

MaxWell, you know, Merlin, do you have a. You're in the San Francisco area I don't want to compromise your OPSEC here There must be a Korean Or like Chinese or Vietnamese grocery store That you can access

MerlinOh there is, there's one up the street, it's like a zoo

MaxIf you go there, they'll have

MerlinIt's got animals I've never seen in it and they're all sad They're in tanks There's an abalone that looks like a boner in a shell And they sell bush beer It's the only place in town that sells bush beer It's really upsetting

MaxOkay, so in that store, they probably sell sliced meat for pho.

MerlinYeah. I suppose. Okay, so I'm going to get the Ben Renner Mandolin Super Slicer with four Japanese stainless steel blades, BPA-free, 14.5 by 5.25 inches, new model. Now I'm going to go check it on ReviewMeta and make sure it's good.

AlexReviewMeta.

MerlinGo to ReviewMeta.com.

AlexReviewMeta.

MerlinYou paste in a URL, and it does science on the ratings. It's really good.

MaxReviewMeta.com.

AlexOh, like to see if the reviews on Amazon are bullshit or not. Right. Yes.

MaxReviews appear natural.

MerlinYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the thing is, I thought Fake Spot was good, but review meta is like science. Review meta is like, look, we're not here to tell you that this is fake. We're here to give science. We're going to put science on here. We're going to schmear science on here.

MaxThere's certainly a lot of numbers.

AlexBut look, you go down. Those sure are numbers.

Maxis that how you know that merlin is that how you know that the science is happening

Merlinbecause there's all the there's look there's percentage would say is it not true that without

Speaker Anumbers there is no science consequently by the rule of affirmation doesn't the existence of more

Merlinnumbers suggest more science uh so yeah this is good all the way down uh phrase repetition not

Maxtoo bad reviewer ease the ease score is the average rating for all reviews that a given reviewers submits. The average Ease score for reviewers of this project is 4.2, while the average Ease score for reviewers in this category is 4.3.

MerlinSo, they're just, but if they're FAQs, you should go read their FAQs. They're really good, because they're like, look, there's no way to say, are these fake reviews? There's a way to put science on it, so that you can say, if you go through, they're using APIs and stuff, and they're sweeping through all the shit all these people use. Oh, you're saying it's an API and it's science. Well, the science is there, because you can tell from the numbers.

AlexYeah, the numbers, the APIs.

MerlinDid you not see the pie charts, Max?

AlexOh, yeah.

MerlinPie.

AlexMm-hmm.

Merlin3.1. Okay, begin, report, refresh. Thank you very much. It is in my cart. It's a little more than I wanted to spend, but if you're going to lose a finger, you might as well invest.

MaxWhy don't you just go get the pre-sliced pho?

Speaker AWhy don't you stop fossing me? I want my own steak.

MerlinRight now, I order two different phoes to get what I want. It's becoming too costly. I got a ribeye in the sous vide right now.

MaxThey make the sliced... You're going to pre-cook it and then slice it? I do it about to 120 Merlin. Let me ask you this. I don't want it 100% rods I'm doing it to 120. I see I understand what you're saying. Why don't you okay? Why don't you use a sharp knife?

Speaker AYou can't slice it thin enough with a knife. Okay. Let me ask you this. Is it not true that if one has sous vide it a

MerlinIf King Philip is to be given

Speaker AKing Philip wants a thinly sliced steak Hang it upon my chin like an ornament of Christmas. He can only fit four teeth in that chin. My blood is very thin. Bring me the steak, but slice it thin. My teeth are like shoe peg corn.

MaxOh, my God. No es bueno.

MerlinSo, because here. So, you sous vide a steak. And in my case, because of circumstances today, because I have to do the award winning hit podcast Dubai Friday. I threw it in at 120. So I'll get home. It will have been in there for two or three hours from frozen. so at that point it's going to be i'm going to be just sort of mealy probably try slicing that see what i'm saying i don't want to do totally raw so what you do is just slice it real thin all right i'm gonna order this your kid eat the raw stuff or is that just no no no no no well she eats sushi um but she likes uh she likes the rice

noodles yeah she likes that she she does this thing where she cannibalizes she cannibalizes my wife and my foods. And then like to make her own like kind of bespoke meal out of all the parts of our meal that we actually would have wanted. But she does that. So she'll take a little bit from everybody's plate and kind of like a smorgasbord.

AlexGot it. Does she let the food touch?

MerlinI will have that rice of yours. Well, I wanted the rice. What are you, what are you, King Phillip?

MaxThat's one of my worst, that sets me off worse than anything else. If someone takes something off my plate. I fucking hate people taking off my plate. When people go, can I have a taste? and they just get their fingers right on there and grab it.

AlexOh, God. Who actually does that?

MaxWe'd go to that. When I was in college and we'd go eat in the cafeteria and you'd get a whole little tray and you'd go through and you'd build a whole little special tray for yourself and you'd have just the things you want. And the cafeteria was fine, but you'd still have to do a lot of work to curate the foods to make it into a meal that you could tolerate.

MerlinThere's a lot of decision making about pairings and how much you want and where it goes on the plate and a lot of thought goes into that.

MaxWell, it's like, am I going to get in line and wait 45 minutes for someone to make me like a grilled chicken breast? or am I going to do something that's pre-prepared? So anyway, then you get to the table and someone looks at your plate and they're like, wow, this guy did a great job. And they're just like, can I get some of that? And it's like, no, no, no. If you want it, go get it yourself. It's right there. It's fucking free. You already paid to come in.

Speaker AYes.

MaxOh, that drives me. That drove me crazy. It's like, why do you think it's on my plate? Because I fucking, I want to eat it. That's my treat.

Alexchallenge digga digga digga alex challenge digg dug it was my challenge this week and it was very simple it was to use instagram merlin mann i've come to find out doesn't have an instagram account i wanted max and i both use instagram and i wanted max to uh explore the story feature that all the youths are using how did how did this go i think i want to hear from max first because i don't know if you'll have much to say.

MaxI don't know. I have almost nothing to say. I made an Instagram. You guys didn't post a lot, especially Max.

Speaker AHmm. John Syracuse hardly posts anything at all. Well, that's part of

Maxwhat's fun about Instagram is that you don't have to post a lot. It's like a low bandwidth. It's like you just post and you have something to share.

MerlinOr every time you have a coffee.

MaxSo I have a private Instagram and please, I had over 100 Dubai Friday listeners request to follow my private Instagram. Please don't request to follow my private Instagram. I'm just going to delete your request. It's my little space. Just let me have one. I give you people so much. Stop sucking on the door. I'm in here. I give you people so much.

Speaker AHey, buddy.

MaxHowever, that's my one little space.

Speaker ADid you fall in? Did you fall in? Did you fall in? Hello, mother and father. How was the Salisbury steak?

MaxStop asking me where I want to go to dinner. Don't yell through the bathroom door.

Speaker ADon't talk to the bathroom. And the bathroom door is closed. And you know what? Don't yell from another part of the house about a thing you need. I'm sitting down. I'm doing something. This is my room.

AlexThat's my thing.

Speaker AI'm doing something.

AlexIf someone tries to talk to me when I'm in a public bathroom stall, who does that?

Speaker AOh, I'll tell you who does that. Oh, no. It's a little intimate. It's a little intimate. What about sliding things under the door?

AlexYou ever get that? No, no. Does Maddie ever just slide your note under the door? No squares. Nope, nope.

MerlinI would pretend I was just... You have an iPhone slid under the door so you can buy something on the App Store? You ever get that?

AlexWhat? Oh, I see. I see. No, no. Oh, man. What is that?

Speaker AWhat is that? It looks like an iPhone coming out of the door. What's a password? Obviously, with no questions asked, no comments exchanged. Of course, anybody who slides me in iPhone under the bathroom door while I'm taking a shit, of course I'm going to enter in my password.

AlexI mean, honestly, that would be my approach. Like, hey, hey, hey, dad, can you just like here, here? And I think you'd get so panicked that you'd just be like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Pencil 69.

MerlinSo listen, stop, stop, stop trying to follow Max. It's his special place.

MaxWell, so I made a public Instagram for the Dubai Friday audience. I posted some Instagram stories and some content to it. And I don't know. It was all right. It's not, it's not. Instagram stories are lame and I don't want to use them. And after, after using them, I've decided that they're still lame and I still don't want to use them.

MerlinI'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not being deliberately difficult. I saved. So basically, I did what I thought. I thought I was a good boy. I took some time. I took an hour this morning and I did some stuff and I had some stuff prepared. And I guess I still kind of let me ask you this. And Syracuse has already tried to explain this to me. So an Instagram story is a photo or video that you put up. You write on it or have stickers or whatever. And then it goes away after 24 hours. That's an Instagram story.

Speaker AYes.

MerlinAnd it's flow versus stock.

Speaker AYes. But can you put up like multiple photos in a set or is it put up a photo?

AlexOh, for stories, you can only put up one photo at a time.

MerlinWhy do they call it a story? It's so stupid.

Speaker AIt's the story of your life. I prepared a wonderful thing to post and now I don't know what I'm going to do.

MerlinI wanted to wait and do with you with my friends, my buddies from the podcast. But now, OK, I'll put up one photo for a story, I guess. Yeah. Who described this? Actually, we talked about this on Back to Work and Dan was saying he thinks stories are I mean, this is Dan's opinion, not mine, but I think to paraphrase that it's kind of ruining Instagram that people put all their stuff in there and then it goes away and they're not taking the time to like put up good stuff.

MaxWell, I would not go so far as to say that it's ruining Instagram because Instagram is still perfectly fine for me. But I just don't want to engage with the stories feature. I don't want to read them. I don't want to post them. It's just not. I'm just not.

MerlinCan I make a cynical note? And you can tell me if this is way off base. Yeah. Is it possible? And understand now I've used this for almost six days. Is it possible that the reason people do instagram stories is because it makes their icon go to the top of the app?

AlexHuh? I don't think so

MerlinDon't people hate don't people hate the feed that is no longer chronological Everything's all messed up. I follow somebody and I get 40 pictures from that person. I can't see anything else Is isn't it possible that it's a way to bubble up your stuff?

MaxSo I I follow I do have some friends who are like it's like part of their career or their fame to like have their to like do things on instagram and those people post a ton of like hashtags on their posts that's one telltale thing that they're like that they're kind of like working it and then the other and it is possible that for those folks that they actually are doing something to sort of game the algorithm by doing stories because it gets them it gets their icon up there oh okay like

Merlinespecially like let's say like a pal from uh from the the coffee company like if you're doing a startup or something you want to make sure you're bubbling up via hashtags if it's if it's part yeah

MaxYeah, if it's part of your like marketing or whatever, or if you're or, you know, I know a lot of professional photographers, right? And the way they part of their deal is that they they post on Instagram a lot. So that stuff is is I understand that. But most of the time when I see Instagram stories, it's just people post things that are like, too petty or flighty. Or, you know, like the joke everyone does on Instagram of like, Oh, you're posting what you're eating or your coffee or whatever. Like, that's actually what people post in Instagram stories. It's like a thing that I might passingly share with you, but I don't need to sort of curate this as part of my permanent, you know, identity on here.

MerlinOkay, I'm going to post something as an Instagram story. So what I can put me, I can write on it and stuff, right? Yes. It's like the Snapchat clone. What was that?

AlexSorry. Well, I was engaging with Instagram and Simone Geertz is going into surgery and I was watching that story and it made me sad. I'm very sad today. Do you know, Robot Lady has a brain tumor. Oh, the shitty robots? Yeah, I love shitty robot lady. Um, she's going to the surgery. That sucks. Uh, yeah, she has a brain tumor. She'll probably be okay. Um, oh my God. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bummer. Um, is it okay if I don't use stickers? Sometimes some people do. Some people don't. I've become a fan of using a GIF as a sticker.

Hmm. But like, do you write, do you write a description? I do sometimes just like a story, for a story well well the description is adding text to the photo or video or boomerang story

Maxhas no caption unless you like overlay the text on the photo all right are you creating one right now yes alex what about an instagram live have you ever played with that no because periscope

Alexis the place where i bother people to watch my me do dumb things i get i get so many more views

Maxon Periscope than any other live thing that I do. What's up with that?

AlexI'm going to do a live Instagram right now, checking connection. I'm now live on Instagram.

MerlinOh, there you are. I see your icon.

AlexOh, God, there you are. There I am. I am in the studio.

MerlinNobody's here.

AlexI'm going to wave at you.

MerlinDo you want to mash on anything? You're waiting at me.

AlexThis is crazy.

MerlinThis is a disaster.

MaxOh, no. Oh, God. Wow. Here comes all the people. Here comes all the people.

AlexLook, there's my brother. There's Cancer Boy. Hi, Cancer Boy. Hey, Cancer Boy, Alex's brother.

MerlinI'm not going to say hi, Cancer Boy, because that's a little familiar. Mom says hi. Oh, God. Mash out that heart, fam.

Speaker AYou like that? You like hearts? Thank you. I'm King Philip of Spain, and I know Alex.

Alextell me tell mom i'm very hard at work so is this the show i guess so stokely 706 joined

Maxhey stokely 706 what's up what up fam

Speaker Aengaging with my content

Alexall right we got 27 27 people 31 31 hi I just read can't well Martha there's Jeff

Maxthis is probably the worst episode we've ever done in this show

Alexwait I don't have any laundry at home I'm 27 years old shut up Tommy is this a show good lord I'm done you gotta turn this off oh god this is terrible so bad so we did it you guys Yay, After Show Wait, no, no, hold on, hold on

MerlinI'm going to recuse I'm a session out of this No, no, no, tell us what you thought, Merlin No, this is the pinnacle of you really don't want me to give my opinion about this

MaxI do, I want to know what you think

MerlinNo, because it's going to be a rerun of the fucking After Show last week where I'm going to say it's really not for me and you're going to go, yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah, but

MaxThose are all really good reasons for you to do it Now you tried it though, so I'm curious what your thoughts What was different than what you expected?

MerlinI guess, I don't know. I thought it would be funnier. I like the babies and I like the dogs.

AlexNot the cats? You don't like the very, very cute cats? Oh, yeah, yeah.

MerlinMaddie had a cat that was cute. Yep, there's lots of cats. No, I like it. And I like the little slice of life. I like Mrs. Soup and her post having her surrogate baby stuff. I think that's fun. What else did I like? Oh, there's Shane.

MaxAre you going to delete this off your phone as soon as we're done?

MerlinWell, I wouldn't put it that strongly, but yeah, probably. And I'll clear all of my cookies all the way down. Because I don't need Facebook to know fuck all about my life, including whose pizza I'm looking at. No, no, you know what? Here's the thing, though. Yay. I see why people like this. I see why this is the good place for people, for sure. For sure. There's James T. Green eating some food.

AlexMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

MerlinYeah. No, I get why people like it. Oh, and congratulations on your public notice. That's good. There's Kevin. Lots of things John Roderick owns. I also just, you know what it is? I just, I, we talked about this in the after show last week, but I'm just not comfortable putting up photos like I used to be.

Speaker AI mean, we can make all the jokes about it.

MerlinWhat changed? It's like, it's always been kind of a funny thing to go, wow, you have weird books on your bookshelf. That's always been a thing. But no, I mean, like it is a Gary the Privacy Concern clown thing where it's become a sport to try to figure out everything you can figure out about someone's life. And I don't want to encourage people to do that. You know, there's a reason. I mean, like I used to put up pictures of my kid all the time and it was really a nice experience and people were cool about it. And now, like, I'm hesitant to put up anything. Like, you just saw what year my house was built. And that's probably going to somebody's going to go probably be weird about that.

And that just makes me sad. It used to be really fun. Flickr was a really fun thing. and having that added ability to say like, this is for friends, this is for family, made it real easy and warm. But it's fun. I get the appeal. I for sure get the appeal. Look at that kitty cat. Now, who is that? So that's bedtime snuggles. That's Frances?

AlexThat is Frances. That's the bad cat.

MerlinIs that the idiot?

AlexThat's the dumb dumb. I tried very hard. But I get it.

MerlinBut I'm not being a sourpuss. I'm not looking down my nose at anybody who does it. I totally get the appeal.

AlexRight. The something I tried to do, I kind of went overboard on the Instagram stories this week. It's really dumb. It's very silly. It's it's kind of fun.

MerlinWhy do you say it's dumb and silly?

AlexNo, no, no. It's dumb and silly for me. Like I did. You know, it's just like me going out to a restaurant or something stupid I saw. And it's I should say that, like, there's no there's nothing of substance for me there. Does that make sense? I guess. But it's kind of fun when you're out with people and it's like, ah, let's make some little gifts and let's make some boomerangs. It, it's kind of fun. Like, like how Vine used to be actually.

Yeah.

MerlinNo, I don't, I don't think you, I don't think you need to, I don't think you need to apologize for that. What about you, Max?

AlexI'm trying to think about why it's.

MerlinWell, you're, I've made you, I've made you sensitive or defensive about it. No, no, no, no. I didn't mean to. What about you, Max?

MaxWhat do I like about Instagram? Yeah. Well, It's hard for me to, so what's cool to me about Instagram personally is just that I have a very small little community of people who I follow and who I allow to follow my account. And it's my only place online where I have that. And I'm very thoughtful about, you know, who's allowed in and who's not. And so I don't really have to think as hard about just saying stuff or posting pictures of my house or my life or whatever because I'm just not, you know, I'm not thinking about how it's going to be used against me or how I'm going to be judged for it or whatever.

So, um, it's hard for me to say like, what are the merits of Instagram versus what are the merits of just having a private space with all, you know, to talk with all of your friends. Um, but it's pretty nice regardless. It's like my only, I generally find Instagram to be very positive. Like I think people aren't generally getting into fights or making stupid claims or whatever.

MerlinIt's very advanced and supportive. Yeah. People are just generally pretty nice to each other. Um, there's Kara. Oh, is Kara throwing a ball around?

AlexOh boy. Well, that's the thing. The actual meat of Instagram, the permanent photos, that's kind of more for me. It is self-indulgent. It is very silly. But kind of like what Flickr used to be, every once in a while, I'll go back and look at some of the photos. And it's like, oh, I like when that cat did the cute thing. Oh, I really liked that show or something like that.

MaxThat's a very important function of Instagram for me, too. I don't keep a journal of any kind. I don't do any of that stuff. And so the only way if I really wanted to like look back on my life over the last, you know, whatever years, I mean, Instagram really is it. Like I post to it a couple times a week and I can go through and be like, oh, man, like a few years ago I was, you know, this is when I went to, you know, visit Merlin in San Francisco or this is and we went to this convention or took this trip or whatever.

AlexRight, right. And plus, I've been on Instagram since it started. Remember, it was like everybody was trying to get on the beta and it was the cool thing. and now it's just part of you know it's just pretty prevalent in all areas of pop culture but it's still I still kind of use it like I use original Twitter it's just this nice thing and I'm looking at like there's like when I lived in Milwaukee like I took pictures of bikes and it's really silly but I'm like that's the person I was

when I was 19 years old I think it's what Flickr is for some people

MerlinI like the ones that are thematic

AlexI think that's fun. Oh, accidental Wes Anderson. That's a good one that I just discovered. Oh, yeah. Uh, I also, there's a lot of slime videos and a lot of cutting sand videos. Of course. Oh, yeah. That's, I finally got the like ASMR tingle from, uh, sand cutting a while ago and it's very pleasant. Nice. My main like, uh, curiosity with this was going to be like, what, why is this different from Flickr other than the fact that, you know, Flickr was a permanent place.

MerlinOr Twitter, because I think you can distinguish between both. And I've been thinking about it. I've really been thinking about it. Well, Flickr was from a different time where I was definitely like less self-conscious about what kind of stuff I would put up. Twitter, I feel much, I feel really off the leash with Twitter for whatever reason. I feel pretty comfortable saying whatever, as long as I mostly spell stuff right. And I don't overthink that. I'm hesitant to say this. I'll just say this for myself. One reason I'm very self-conscious about this,

having a site where that is mainly about photos of something that recently happened for a moment, setting aside all of the parts that are, that can be very creepy about that is that I'm not saying anybody should ask themselves this, but the question I ask myself is every gesture that you make has an implicit request or an implicit, like a persuasive case about something that you're making. Like sometimes you're just looking for like somebody to like laugh along with

you at how dumb the president is or whatever it is. Like there's, I don't have a unified field theory for why I do Twitter and I wouldn't do this, but like I'm unclear about what it is that I'm asking people to think about me. Like, cause I feel like almost every image on Instagram has an implicit, it like here's a thing you need to know about me and it is it's kind of related to brand it's kind of related to lifestyle it's related to the decisions that you've made in life a lot of times it really is conspicuous consumption of one kind or another or status it's a way of it's of

showing status and when i when i'm thinking about what to put up there setting aside all those other things i'm like i'm not really sure what it is i want people to think about me differently because I posted a given image. And that makes me very self-conscious about posting anything.

Speaker AWhereas I'm not like that on Twitter, and I didn't used to be like that on Flickr.

MerlinOr if I was like that on Flickr, I knew that it was an on-brand thing. Like, I have a whole album of just me with dumb hair on Flickr. That's like a fun thing. But like, now today, I just, I feel self-conscious about that. What do you think changed? What do I think changed? I mean, I do feel like, Flickr just feels like it was from a simpler time. It was such a fun site. It was so easy to use. It was one of the first, I feel like for me, up there was stuff like what? What was the bookmarking app before Pimboard that everybody used?

Delicious. Sort of like Delicious. Like definitely Flickr. A little later on, Vimeo. These sites that YouTube used to be very ugly to use. And it was very techie. And it worked. It was good for what it did. But, you know, YouTube wasn't always YouTube. It used to be real ugly and mainly just attract a lot of ding-a-lings. and you wouldn't, I wouldn't put like personal stuff on YouTube because that wasn't, whereas with Vimeo, they were very much about like, to a fault, in my opinion, they were about storytelling. Like one time I put up a video of something that was like vaguely instructional and I kind of got a little bit of a nasty gram from Dallas that was like, well, it's kind of

know what this is for. Like it got too close to their idea of like, I guess, commercial or like, this is really a storytelling site. And I was like, oh, really? I thought I could just put up whatever I wanted. But Vimeo and Flickr in particular were, I mean, honestly, just so fun to use, fun to interact with. Uploading a video to Vimeo was a fun experience.

And the community was really good. Like the people that you allowed into that world, it felt pretty wholesome. And very much the way I think, similar to the way you guys feel with Instagram. How is it different? The internet has changed. Not the internet has changed. The way people behave and the filters that people have when they are consuming and interacting with stuff on the Internet has really changed. I think that's difficult to dispute. There's always been dark corners of the Internet. But now it's so easy to rocket into any area of somebody's digital life and wreak havoc.

And it makes me feel vulnerable.

AlexI definitely see what you're saying, especially with like, I know that when I post a picture of Diet Coke that I'm just being like, ha ha, look at me. I like Diet Coke. Well, but at the same time and also with the travel thing, fortunately or unfortunately, like it's just part of my job that people will know where I am and like when I know when I'm out of town and I'm lucky enough that nothing bad has happened. in those circumstances.

But I don't know. I read this article that I'm trying to find. I think it was on the outline about how the kids these days are using Instagram. And it did make me genuinely sad. Like they do the flow thing of constantly making stories.

MerlinAnd if you don't- Oh, the thing about the high price of becoming an influencer?

AlexNo, not that one. This is like the normies. That was also good. But like people, they will post a picture on Instagram. And if it doesn't get likes, they immediately delete it. And it just maybe. Is that a thing?

MerlinI've heard people say that. Is that really a thing?

AlexIt's not for like my community of friends, but that's it. Like I can see how it can be really damaging to kids with the whole FOMO thing. And, you know, you go like if you're following the like influencers and you're on a helicopter or a yacht or whatever, it's I don't know. I get what you mean. You've been talking about wholesomeness, I think, on a lot of your shows. And it is an interesting thing to ponder, which is not something I—

MerlinYeah, I'm glad you brought that up. In some ways, it's not so, so, so far off just some tenets of Buddhism, like, you know, the right thinking, the right intent. Like, you know, where am I going with this? What am I looking at here, as Max likes to say? Yeah, I'm glad you got onto that. That's good. But look at that lady.

MaxWhat am I looking at here? What are you talking about? I haven't heard these episodes yet.

MerlinThe woman in that article, I made a crack about how she was kind of putting all of the stuff that was happening onto Instagram. And the thing is, like, you know, would that enterprise that she undertook be as enticing? Would she have kept with it as long if there weren't that? She was kind of feeding the monster in some ways. Maybe that's her own ego. It's her own aspirations. We all have things that we wish we had that we didn't. And that's just how life is. But, you know, she was also I mean, I wonder how many times after spending a large amount of money on something that could be photographed, she decided that's probably not something I should put up.

Because I'll bet that in some ways having that photograph of that bag from that store is what kept her doing that for as long as she did it. I'm just going to speculate. I'm not I'm not trying to cast this too wide. I'm just saying like there is a lot of pressure to look happy, successful, healthy and well in public. There's a lot of pressure on people to do that. And, you know, for years we've known about the fact like, hey, if you see somebody with a picture and it's just their open eye, they're probably not a skinny person.

Right. We've known stuff like that. Right. But you also want to get shot from just this one certain angle and just this certain side. And that ability to show that like today, I'm maybe even a little bit better off than I was yesterday. That is a lot of pressure to put on people. And yeah, it squicks me a little bit.

AlexThere's another side of that, too, though, where I know selfies are looked down upon by a lot of people. But the ability.

Speaker ANot as much. Not as much as it used to.

AlexNo, exactly. Because the ability for especially women to take a picture of themselves and not hate what they see is a very big deal. And that is something I never thought I would be able to do. Like, you know, because I'm not a happy person. And luckily, I don't feel like I have to pretend to be happy in public most of the time, at least in my basic ass everyday life. And maybe that is just because of some sort of semblance of maturity that I've scrambled together somehow. But I don't know.

I'm looking back at my super old pictures. Who is that sweet doggie? That's Murphy, who is still alive.

MerlinMurphy is a precious angel.

AlexI love Murphy. She's the first pet that I ever had. And I'm looking back at my very first photos. And there are friends who have passed away or pets that have passed away. And I don't know. And the terrible filters that were even worse. And you used to have to have a little border around. Oh, you had a little border days. Yeah, it's so bad. And like, I don't know.

MaxMerlin, here's all I would say about you. I think, I mean, I don't think you're doing, I don't think your critique is like wrong of Instagram, but I would just say like, nearly everybody is on Instagram, especially like in the, in the younger you get, right? You just have an Instagram. It's just part of your, you're using the internet. And it's like one of the pillars of your like internet use. And I would say just like everybody has a phone and there's a lot of ways to use a phone and there's some people who have a healthy relationship with their phone and some people who have an unhealthy relationship. Like, you can draw, like, a broad critique of society

and the role that cell phones play in society, and it doesn't apply to lots of people. And I think the same thing is true of Instagram. Like, I don't think I have an unhealthy relationship with Instagram.

MerlinI think I use it in a good way. Yeah, that's why I tried to present it. But, like, you just sent along the lady from that article's Instagram. Yeah, it's pretty interesting.

MaxShe's right in the wheelhouse of what you're describing.

AlexYeah.

MerlinShe is, but also, I mean, just to make the 51-year-old man point, she looks profoundly unhappy in almost all of these photos, which I think is part of her aesthetic. But, I mean, this is kind of like the human version of a minimalist desk.

AlexOh, that's so true. Holy shit.

MerlinThere's so little room for joy in the world that she's photographing.

AlexOh, my God. Oof. Oof.

MerlinI mean, it's like living in a, I don't know, everything is very stark and it's either an angled thing or a centered thing or it's a little bit wackadoo and it's got a little bit of splash of color. But it's like, she's in a world that exists to be photographed and put on Instagram. It looks like. I mean, what do her rejects look like?

AlexYeah.

MerlinI'd love to know what her rejects look like.

AlexThat's very interesting. Yeah.

MerlinLike this wasn't, yeah. But your point about the deleting of something once it's up, that's, oh my God, that's such an interesting idea. Oh, there's the saline glasses. There's her saline glasses we heard about.

AlexYeah. I think Max is right. It's just a spectrum. I'm glad. Thank you for actually engaging in this challenge. You were good at Instagram. Your Instagram's already way better than like 90%.

MerlinI have four photos. My daughter was very picky about what she would allow me. It's not that she didn't want a photo. She would not let me put up the Tesla picture and I was really bummed. Do you understand how perfect the Tesla photo would be for Instagram?

AlexWell, she didn't want she she was like, no, this isn't wholesome. And I'm not even like joking. Like, no, you're just engaging in the brand. Like I bet part of that. Well, you know, no, I know.

MerlinI tried to explain to her how it would be kind of the ultimate in joke. So what I what I sent Max and Alex was a photograph of my daughter making finger, making finger guns at the logo of a white, literally white Tesla.

AlexAnd it's the kind I want a Tesla X. Sorry, go on.

Merlinbut yeah and she's like no you put up other ones but don't put up that one i don't like that the

Maxthing about the tesla merlin is that she's not proud of the tesla that she got she's proud of the 47 new bookcases she had to get to hold all of her books knowledge because this billionaire investor warren buffett that i quoted in my ted talk says

Speaker Aknowledge is power he only had 47 lamborghinis in his lamborghini account oh man do you want to

MaxCan I show you an amazing Instagram, a really interesting Instagram account that you might be into? 100%. Does anyone know about Lil Mikaela?

AlexNo.

MaxSo check this out. So Lil Mikaela is a very interesting Instagram account. Oh, I read about this. So she is a CGI model, although at times almost upsettingly lifelike. And I think it might be a blend of photography and CGI.

AlexOh, yes, yes, yes.

MaxAnd what's interesting is that also I think a lot of her followers just follow her because of lifestyle stuff. And it's not clear even if they know that she's CGI. Oh, that's funny. But what's cool is that even though she's a CGI model and she's been created by a marketing company, brands pay her. She has a career just like an Instagram influencer and she gets paid to wear these brands and take pictures of them.

MerlinShe being a CGI model someone has made. Correct. We say she's getting paid. The people who...

MaxSome advertising agency, I think.

MerlinThat's so interesting. Alex, this seems like it's right in your wheelhouse.

AlexOh, this is so in my wheelhouse. I think there's a few people like this, but I think there's a number of things that are interesting about this that we can't... Hey, listen to Roboism, Roboism.fm. That it's a woman of color that... And there seems to be like she has CGI friends. Like you're right there. And she's posing with real people at different times. I don't know. This is a very interesting advertising model. Oh, this is weird and cool. I don't know if I should be grossed out or fascinated.

MerlinYeah, but you know, the thing is, it's one of those things where it might as well come along. We probably need to have the conversation about stuff like this, regardless of however we decide it's a good idea or not. How do you feel about Pete Souza? Is he too clever by a half? I like Pete Souza. Yeah, I mean, I've enjoyed his little bits of snark when I encounter it. It's a lot when you get it a lot. I mean, it's less clever and arch when it's like everything he posts, but his photos are beautiful.

MaxI think it's something where he started getting a lot of attention for it and it's a bit of a gimmick. He has a new book out too called Shade by Pete Souza.

MerlinI want to give my – now to be positive, I'd like to give my awards for the people who I like, people who I think are doing this well and in a way that pleases me. I think Jen does a good job. I like Jen's, Jen Baines.

And this does not mean I dislike other people's, so please don't do that.

Speaker AI like Dean Killeen from the Dead Milkman.

MerlinI think he does a nice job of combining, like, here's the thing that I'm working on right now with here's a photo of me with here's an old thing. Like, oh, here's a cute little Dead Milkman photo from 1992. I think he does a good job. I like Kathy Campbell. I like Mrs. Soup. I think she does a good job. Did you see that sweet baby?

AlexOh, yes. Adorable.

MerlinOh, it's a very sweet baby. I think they do a good job. And Pete Seuss's are fun just because he is an awfully good photographer. And it is kind of funny, the shade that he throws, even though it's painful a little bit.

AlexI like Santagous. It's Instafollow, as they say.

Speaker ASantagous.

AlexSantagous. Oh, no. Is it going to be about cutting sand? Yeah, it's just cutting sand.

MerlinOkay. All right.

Speaker ANever mind.

MerlinSantagous Instafollow. Okay. You think I should keep doing it and give it a try longer? I probably should.

AlexI feel like you would enjoy just looking at other people's. I'm going to stick with it.

MerlinI'm going to stick with it a little longer.

MaxIt's a pretty positive, great way to just follow up on your friends and see their baby pictures and their dog pictures and stuff.

AlexOh, Tanner's baby. Oh, my God.

MaxVery cute.

Alexperfectly spherical head like a little right it's a little suspicious like a little grapefruit well

Merlintanner has a very spherical head let's see here i'm looking up i'm looking up the hapsburgs let's find some really seriously fuckable hapsburgs they got they have really prominent chins they kind of think it's like a shape almost it's shaped almost like a banana i mean can't say anything bad about a pointy chin really no no uh oh look at that guy who is this oh man did you see what r stevens posted i just put it in the chat star spangled ding-dongs

Maxpost-us brand star spangled ding-dongs limited edition white fudge covered golden cake with Creamy filling. Oh, God. Google young star-spangled ding-dong. Young ding-dong.

MerlinEvery time there's a guy with tattoos on his face, like when we're watching The Warriors, I say, is that Lil Wayne? And then everybody just looks at me. I don't even... So he's different from Lil Yachty, right? Yes.

AlexI believe so, yes.

MerlinOkay. Yes. But it seems like people used to want to be big, and now people like to be young and little. am I wrong?

Alexno, I don't think so

Merlindidn't you used to have a big, you had a big pun

Maxback in the day, everyone wanted to be biggie smalls, but now they want to be little Wayne smally bigs

Speaker Athat's a very funny joke dad is that one smally bigs? too packed, too furious

Thank you.

81. The Human Version of a Minimalist Desk

Show notes

Transcript

81. The Human Version of a Minimalist Desk

Show notes

Transcript

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