Do By Friday
Episode 54 artwork
Episode 54 · December 7, 2017 · 01:09:34

54. Is This Coco?

This week's challengeShow and tell us about your favorite childhood toy.
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Tap a timestamp or any sentence to play from there · machine transcribed (mlx:mlx-community/whisper-large-v3-turbo), expect mistakes

AlexThis is Do By Friday, the weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, show and tell us about your favorite childhood toy.

Speaker AHello. Hello Merlin. Good morning. How are you? Good. I'm all right.

AlexI feel like a fancy duchess today because I have not normally you know I have a Diet Coke but today I have a Diet Dr. Pepper which was established in 1885 and like you know a Diet Coke seems like like a glass of water these days because our president drinks it and it's a 2017 collector's edition that's the end of my story thank you for listening that's a good story

Merlinthat's a feather in your cap that would be nice if you put that with your collections I love me a Dr. Pepper. Alex, have you ever collected empty garbage? No.

AlexNo, I have not.

MerlinHave you ever collected, like, cans or bottles or anything like that?

AlexNope. Nope. Oh, you know what? There was a school program where you would have to collect the, like, caps. What do you call it? The little tabs that open. Pop tops. Yeah. Yeah. And we would collect those. And for some reason, the school would get money. I don't know.

MerlinBecause they're made out of super aluminum.

AlexOh, okay.

MerlinWe talked about this on Roderick yesterday, and I was saying, I don't understand. What is the deal? They tell you to get your pop tops. I was complaining about how the school tries to make nickels by being really annoying. And then I got very kindly, nicely, well-actuallyed by somebody who said, actually, it is some kind of super aluminum, and you get more money for the top than the can, and I want to know why. I think it's because it's compact.

AlexMaybe they can afford to drive to Michigan, and they figure out the system.

MerlinThis is... Hmm? Hmm? Hmm? Hmm?

Speaker AHow you doing, Max? Oh, good. Are you good? Yeah. Okay.

AlexYou've had a busy week.

Speaker AYeah. Oh, are you stressed? Yeah. A little bit.

MaxThis is going to be fun, you guys. I want to start the challenge right away so I can play with my toys. Dig it, dig it, dig it. Yeah, do it.

AlexChallenge. Okay. Well, first of all, the challenge this week was I wanted you guys to bring, to basically do a show and tell of your favorite childhood toy.

And Max, would you like to share what you brought for us today?

MaxWell, I have a whole saga, you guys. I don't know that I should go first. Oh my God.

AlexMerlin, did you? Oh my God.

MaxI mean, it's not that good, but it's not, I shouldn't introduce it.

AlexOkay, okay. Merlin, did you acquire a show and tell item?

MerlinNo. I didn't. Mine was mine. No, but hang on. It's an audio program, Alexandra.

Speaker AMerlin cocked us again. I cocked no one. I've got links here that I haven't even shared with you guys. Jesus. Do you guys know how this stuff works?

AlexI mean, at this point still, I do not know. Not really.

MerlinI was thinking about what my favorite childhood toys were. And obviously that varied a lot by the time and the era. and, to be honest, what was popular both as toys and in media. And I would say I had a special affection for what came to be called action figures because they're definitely not dolls. And action figures, I feel like the canonical one in some ways was G.I. Joe. And he was a 12-inch tall guy with a kung fu grip. He had this cool grip with his hand.

And he had an awesome Steve Bannon beard. And he was really cool. By the way, Steve Bannon is looking super good these days. Did you see him last night?

AlexI did not.

MerlinHoly shit. There's no jokes left to make. If you remember how Steve Bannon used to look and you think, wow, that's crazy. He's let himself go. He actually looks worse now. Is this the Utah event? He was at the thing in Alabama making fun of Mitt Romney. Anyway, I did not have a Steve Bannon doll. I did have a G.I. Joe doll. And I liked all of those. As I mentioned last week, J.J. Arms, the guy with hooks for hands, who was a detective, I had him.

And starting in 1977, of course, I got the Star Wars figures, and that kind of became my world. But there was a time in the mid-70s when my go-to action figure was a character named Big Jim. Now, my Big Jim, I'm sure, was thrown away. Wait a minute. It's not funny. Don't laugh. It's not funny.

Speaker AYou had a childhood toy named Big Jim? Well, yeah, and his friends Big Josh and Big Jeff.

MerlinWell, let's, okay, why don't we just cut to the chase? Big Jim was a figure. Please be prepared to show that video to both of you in just a second. So Big Jim was an action guy. He was like a little, he was like 10 inches tall as opposed to the 12-inch form factor of G.I. Joe. But straight out of the box, Mattel, I believe was Mattel, comes out with Big Jim, and he's like an action guy. He's an action guy, and he's got these buddies, and they got like a van. and they've got a tent. And the distinguishing characteristics, whereas G.I. Joe had Kung Fu Grip,

which is a great name, the Big Jim dolls had a big button in the back. And when you push the big button in the back, it would make their arm go like this. And so on Big Jim, that was a karate chop on another guy. It meant he cracked his whip. There was another guy, I think, who had a silver hand and a pipe. But if you would, Alexandra, just to give you a feel of what it has been in the last three days for me to go back and revisit the world of Big Jim. Would you be good enough to play that TV commercial?

Speaker BHere's Big Jim's safari outfit his camp and tent and friend Big Josh. Big Jim's on safari when suddenly he sees Big Josh coming at him through the trees. Big Jim says, let's see if he's stronger than me. I wish I could quit you. It's so broke back.

Oh yeah, that's...

MaxOh, they also have a karate... karate grip of friendship at the end. Yeah. You know, as two shirtless male friends who convene in the woods do.

MerlinTwo guys who are just so comfortable in their masculinity and their sexuality that they can just run around shirtless chopping stuff and then make it up at the end of the day in the tent. Safari outfits sold separately. And so that's been a trip for me to go back. And also, here's the funny part of it, though, is I don't remember which guy it was. I got a ton of links here. But there was this one guy who was clearly like the leather man and i was very attracted to him i thought he was super cool he had a cool hat he had a whip and they would go out he had a whip there was one guy who had a whip

Speaker Ago look at the uh a normal straight thing that regular guys have right when you're a straight

Maxyou know when you're a man yeah you know you know when you're a man you go into the woods sometimes and you don't have a shirt on and you meet your friend with a whip and you shake each other's

Merlinhands well yeah i mean first you gotta you gotta you gotta you gotta pop the tent together you You got to put that together. You might need to go gather some wood. Okay, the original Big Jim basic series, 1972. Big Jim, the basic good guy leader of the pack. Average Caucasian male with no distinguishing characters. Big Jack. Big Jack, though, one of the first African-American characters with a friendly attitude. He made it into toys without racial stereotypes. Big Josh. Are you ready for this one? You know how you guys like to pair off with your U-Haul lifestyle? Big Josh. Effectively, Big Jim with a beard.

He's one of Jim's best friends and was positioned as the tough guy among the group.

AlexHe's capable of generating an enormous amount of power.

Speaker AAnd then to finish up the original classic lineup, you got Big Jeff.

MerlinThat's Big Jim's third buddy. He's an Australian kind of blonde type who was also Jim's opponent in the Olympic boxing match set, even though both Jim and Jeff are on the American team, turns out. So they were just guys who had a van and they liked to camp. And they didn't wear shirts a lot of the time. Big Jim.

AlexOh, all right. Oh, here we go.

MerlinHere we go. Here we go. Pac Series, 1976, The Whip. A weapons specialist who masters all kinds of weapons. He came with boomerangs, bola, and whip. I so remember this. From which he takes the nickname. The Whip is one of the few Big Jim characters known for an alias instead of his real name, The Whip.

MaxI feel like I should get a cool name like The Whip.

Speaker AOh, you know what? let's workshop that. Now, could we be, I'll be big people in the pack. Okay.

MaxI mean, I would clearly be, I mean, I think I would, I would clearly be a big, big Jim.

Speaker AOh, you think you're big Jim? I'm pretty sure I'd be big Jim.

MerlinI might be big Josh, effectively big Jim with a beard. His quote unquote girlfriend, Susan.

Speaker ABig Josh. I have a girlfriend. She's definitely straight and lives in Canada.

AlexNow, Dr. Big Jim, Big Josh, and Big Alex.

MaxI think that's the podcast.

AlexHold on. I want to be Dr. Steel. He came with a steel right hand and an iron pipe and a big dragon tattoo on his chest. Most of the time, kids thought of him as being an evil villain for the first series, but it turned out he was also one of the good guys as he reappeared as an official member of the PAC.

MerlinOkay, well, let me go ahead and give you the YouTube video for the Incredible Dr. Steele commercial.

AlexOh, yes, please. All right. I'm so intrigued. This is the Incredible Dr. Steele.

Speaker BThe Incredible Dr. Steele. You've got Big Jim and Big Jeff hacking across the land, stopped cold by a gleaming hand of the Incredible Dr. Steele. With rugged face and strange tattoo, you make him break a bar in two. Make Big Jim and Big Jeff strike a blow. Is he friend or is he foe? The Incredible Dr. Steel Big Jim Safari outfit Big Jim, Big Jeff, and the Incredible Dr. Steel

Speaker Aeat sold separately from Mattel

MaxWhat the hell?

Speaker AHe can give you his custom steel job

MaxGod, that's so weird No one's wearing any shirts Jeff's got a hat Why do they chop at a little tree?

Speaker ABig Jeff has his machete that he uses to chop down the trees when they're out hacking together. But how is that striking a blow back at the bad guy? Well, then Dr. Steele has to come

Merlinand he breaks his own bar. It's all part of the narrative. But I think in the end, they all made their piece. But they show that they're good for the fight. It's a kind of buddy movie.

AlexSo was this a TV series? It doesn't make it clear.

MerlinLike everything, I think it later got adapted. And I saw somewhere in here where it was like included in like a much later series. But no, this was a time when, you know, there would just be ads on TV all the time. Just so many, so many ads. Like if you're watching Saturday morning TV or afternoon TV, you were just, it was chock-a-block with these toy commercials. And, you know, if you go back and, I know this isn't your jam, it's my jam because of my age, but going back and watching some of these old commercials, like they are so funny. And it's, because really what you're selling,

you're selling a chunk of branded plastic. and those ads become very important for letting you know what you're supposed to do with it right like you're this is how you use the zipline or this is you know this is how you use the scuba outfit and to encourage this kind of play and i think that was a big part so you're building the brand of these big boys but then you also kind of have like instruct kids on what you do once you

Speaker Agot them oh you've got they're they're they're the big brain boys so that was mine i got some

Merlinmore links if you want more links there's apparently i dug into this morning i went further into the rabbit hole and there are a lot of people who are like oh yes big jim was my first crush you know whoa oh all right so like you didn't feel sexualized about your toys really

Alexno no you weren't sexually attracted to your toys no i well as i've stated before i really wish i had a robot fetish that feels like it could be my thing but no it doesn't have to be robots

MaxYou could be like on one of those shows. Yeah. Alex has tried human rights, but it didn't take. But now what she loves is a bridge.

MerlinBridge, bridge, bridge, bridge. It came out of nowhere. I was crossing the bridge, and I saw her mighty trusses and the way that her pavement was so even and yet embracing bridge, bridge, bridge.

Alexis that what Alex's fetish voice sounds like

Merlinthat is that's you well no no that's the person who plays you in the showtime show about you it's Alex after big Alex after dark

Speaker AI'd had electronic toothbrushes before but not in the biblical sense

MaxI remember I just googled this to see if I had a false memory if I was incepted with a false memory but it turns out it's real I remember one time Josh was saying out Josh he was telling me he's like the other day I was like home and I was like flipping around TV and I came across a show which I now it know is the same show as the lady who was I love the bridge called my strange addiction right and the episode he said I saw an episode about a woman who her addiction was that she ate the ashes of her dead husband and that she took the ashes with

her everywhere and was eating them very slowly so yeah well you know a body like that you don't eat all at once yeah i mean because you do run out it's a very difficult addiction because of that i mean it's got to get a fresh husband to burn it's like on lost it's like charlie's addicted to heroin but how much heroin is there on that little island right right it's like you only have so many ashes to work and i get so many heroines and i thought i was just occurred to me as we were making fun of the the the bridge lady and i googled it and this is totally real No. Are you kidding? Oh, now I yucked on a yum. I feel bad.

Did I pee on her poop? I didn't mean to. Last night's season finale of My Strange Addiction featured Cassie, a 26-year-old widow who's admittedly having a tough time coping with the loss of her husband after he died suddenly from a severe asthma attack. Cassie had an immediate and unhealthy attachment to her husband's ashes, carrying them around with her everywhere she went, including to the movies and shopping, and even making meals for the ashes. But after she accidentally got some ashes on her fingers one day and feeling bad about just wiping them off, she decided to lick them off. Since then, she's been unable to stop eating her husband's ashes.

Cassie says the ashes taste like, quote, rotten eggs, sand, and sandpaper, a combination she's, quote, grown to love. In two months, Cassie has eaten about one pound of the ashes. There are only about five pounds left. Well, heart wants what it wants. Despite the fact that the ashes contain a combination of chemicals from the embalming fluids, which actually cause psychosis when ingested, Cassie's biggest concern is that she will eat the ashes until they are gone and that she won't have any ashes to hang out with. She needs a different, bigger concern.

AlexWell, this has a very easy solution, which is just marry a very elderly man, and soon you're going to have some more ashes.

MerlinYeah, I mean, you've got to plan ahead, right?

MaxThat's the human condition, right? It's like you fall in love with the ashes, and then one day you're like, I love these so much, I should start eating them very slowly.

MerlinThat really is the human condition if you really think about it.

MaxIt is. Circle, circle of life. Project ahead six months here. You're sowing the seeds of your own misery.

Speaker AWell, then the question becomes who will eat my ashes.

AlexOh.

Speaker ARight? That's what you really want. Now you want a partner who can burn you up and have it on fingers. Oh, and there's no one left to eat your ashes.

MaxThen you fade away.

MerlinOh, no, no. I saw it. I saw it. Oh, my God, Max. I saw it. We saw it this weekend.

AlexNo, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I have been working nights. I am not. Nope, nope, nope, nope. Alex, please go see this. Please see this movie. I'm going to see it either very late Wednesday night or Thursday morning like a creeper. Might go alone if Maddie can't come. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, Alex's headphones are off. Big, big, full media blackout, full media blackout. Todd, thank you for this. I have a story about Todd in the after show

That I'm going to tell This is all going to be cut out

MaxAlex's headphones are literally off

AlexAlthough I'm playing it out loud on my laptop speaker So it's probably worse that she takes the headphones off I didn't have breakfast Dr. Diet Pepper Am I safe? Nope, I'm not safe Nope, nope, nope That's Coco I really like my iPhone X That's Coco It's real great It's just a delight.

MaxI've been walking around singing this song in my head for two weeks. And you know what's great is the way they – oh, we can't talk about this.

MerlinBut it's so great that the first time you hear it is not the way you should hear it. It's so perfect. It's really, really – Alex, it's a really good movie. You should see it.

MaxNo spoilers, no spoilers. But Merlin, I would rank this personally. It might be after The Incredibles, my second favorite Pixar movie.

MerlinI would say it's up there with The Incredibles and WALL-E in terms of – I said this to some other friends in a secret channel, some filmy friends. They did one of the most improbable things in a movie today. And I know this is glib, but I am so frequently bought into a movie in the first act, super into it in the second act. And then looking at you, MCU, the third act or DC or any, the third act of every movie today sucks. And the third act of this movie is arguably the best part of the movie that is so fucking hard to do.

You should see this movie very soon, Alex. It's good. I hope you get to see the Frozen short. It's only 22 minutes long.

MaxOkay, here's the thing. Did you see it with your daughter, Merlin?

MerlinI did, I did. Do you like it?

MaxWhat did she think? Did she like it? Did she cry?

MerlinYeah, yeah. It's only like the third time she's cried in a movie. Really?

MaxShe did cry? I've been curious if kids watch it, if they would cry, because I know why adults cry.

MerlinBecause it's got, so, we can't say too much here, but it's got moments for everybody. This is the sign that was on the theater I just texted to you. So this is on the window when you're walking into the big XD theater. Disney's Olaf's Frozen Adventure. All showings of Coco include the featurette Olaf's Frozen Adventure. New paragraph. The featurette is approximately 22 minutes long and is included in the full feature runtime. And I did mention this on Reconcilable Differences that will be coming out soon.

But at one point, probably 20 minutes into the short film that was shown before the movie, a very out and loud and proud gay man turned to my daughter and said, Is this Coco?

AlexAnd at first she was a little bit stunned. Hi, my name's Big Jim. Is this Frozen?

Speaker AHave you seen my machete? Oh, boy. Let's make up now. Get in the tent. Is this Coco? Is this Coco? And she goes, yeah, this is the movie for Coco.

MaxI was prepared to plug my ears and close my eyes if they played a Star Wars trailer, and they did not do that at my showing. There was no Star Wars trailer, so I was very happy about that. We had lots of terrible kids movie trailers. I, okay, I have not seen a single, I'm on full media blackout, copyright Todd Vaziri. I haven't seen a trailer, I haven't seen a picture, I don't know what's happening in the movie, I don't know, I couldn't tell you. It's getting real hard right about now. I cannot tell you shit about the new Star Wars movie, and I really hope that I go in and I like, Like, story-wise, I like it more than The Force Awakens.

I'm trying to give myself every gift going into this movie of, you know, middling expectations and not knowing anything about it and just go in and get blown away by it.

But the trailers before Coco, holy shit, were they bad. They were nothing but CGI characters getting hit in the nuts and then saying, like, it's all forked up. You know, like doing like a lot of fake profanity.

MerlinI said to my daughter, again, I'm repeating myself. I said to my daughter, here's an important thing to understand, Eleanor. Farts are very funny. Please don't for a minute doubt that a fart is a funny thing. A fart is always a funny thing. That's number one. Here's number two. If your trailer for the movie includes a fart or butt joke, it's not a good sign. Because that means that's their best stuff. And if it's got, in one case, one of them, one of these animals that involved animals, it wasn't Peter Rabbit, but it was one of them. It might have been Peter Rabbit. But there was two fart jokes and a butt joke in the trailer.

And we both turned to each other and we go, hard pass. I'm trying to remember the other ones. There were so many bad ones in this one. Oh, but Wrinkle in Time.

MaxThe gnome movie looked awful. I mean, if I ever, I mean, if. When I'm detaining Guantanamo Bay for crimes against the state, they're going to play that gnome movie on a loop to drive me insane.

Speaker AOh my God, Sherlock Gnomes? Sherlock Gnomes. Holy shit.

MaxIt looked fucking horrible.

AlexThis looks like it's way up my alley.

MaxI can't believe it got made. It looked awful. Even the voice cast, I was like, I hate all of these people.

Speaker AAnd it starts out as like, oh, I get the idea.

MerlinThe idea is it's going to be like trolls or smurfs, right? It's going to be about this community of little, what do you call them, gnomes. Okay, that's cool. That's cool. Oh, God, something horrible has happened. And there's been some kind of leftovers type situation that's going on here. And so what do they do? They bring in a totally un-gnome-like human figure called Sherlock Gnomes.

AlexOh, God. These posters. Oh, I love. Oh, my God. It's very bad.

MaxI think in that trailer, I think there were three nut shots. There were three gnome nut shots.

Speaker AWhat is he? Is he a gnome?

MaxIf it's a gnome nut shot, it's a G-N-U-T shot.

Speaker AA nut shot.

MerlinY'all ready for this?

Speaker AOw, my balls. Oh, God. Hey, kids. This is funny. Testicles are sensitive. Just ask Big Josh.

MaxCan I tell you one of my big theater pet peeves? Now, I'm about to go, I'm about to pop off on one of my patented rants here. You know what I don't like? Is this what you do right before the top of the hour right before we go to the next host on MSNBC? You know what I don't like is when you're sitting in the theater and the trailers are playing and people around you in the theater editorialize out loud to each other and after the trailer is done, they get, I know what it is, which is the lizard part of their brain gets so excited by the, they're so overstimulated like a six-year-old watching Power Rangers that when the trailer concludes,

they have so much energy and they don't know what to do with it and they turn to the person next to them and they go, that looks awesome. Don't say that out loud. Don't say anything out loud. Well, you know what also?

MerlinThe other part is the silence. The fact that you've got the smash cut in the world and then it ends and it says, you know, rated PG-13 and then there's silence. So now you're all jazzed up, like I say, like a little kid and there's silence and Americans cannot stand silence. It makes them very uncomfortable.

MaxYou know what I like about Veronica and I see a lot of movies together and when there's a really bad trailer, like the Sherlock Gnomes trailer, we just kind of silently look over at each other and we just go, no. We just shake our heads. Yeah, same, same. And that's way better. It's either oh yeah or hard pass that we whisper to each other. Yeah, that's fine. That's totally acceptable, right? But that's more fun than saying to no one in particular, like, hell yeah, you know, or like after a Marvel trailer, like people lose. Hey, you guys, Iron Man's coming back.

All right. Yeah, don't say, You make, I'm embarrassed for you when you do that. And I'll tell you the other place where this is really bad. Let me share with you one of the great joys of American movie going. I bet a lot of our listeners don't do this. But when you leave the theater after the movie, just shut your face. Don't say anything. And listen to what everyone around you is saying. Because nobody knows what to say after a movie. You have the least amount of your IQ accessible to you at any point in your life.

Your brain is like rebooting and you're trying to make conversation with the people who you saw the movie with and everyone's walking out and offering their thoughts and opinions on the movie. And they are the they say the dumbest things in the world. It's it's very funny. Totally. It's the most pseudo profound, like out loud things that people say in America.

MerlinI like your point, though, like your bioavailable IQ is very low after movie. You're a little low. You're maybe out of balance. You're just like, I like when they show the part from the trailer.

MaxYeah. And just from, I mean, just physiologically, you've been sitting for two hours, probably eating a bunch of sugar. You know, all your blood is like pooled in your ankles and you have four clots in your brain and you're standing up. You're just a stroke waiting to happen. Yeah. And your heart is just trying to pump maple syrup through your body. It's like that is not the time to offer your how the movie affected your philosophy of life. It's my hot take. You know, I've really never thought about it before, but we really all are connected.

AlexOh, it was worse. Do you remember coming out of Tree of Life? Which it's a movie I enjoyed, but people were like, whoa, like just jizzing in their pants walking out of the theater because I thought they were supposed to.

MaxThat's a Terrence Malick with the family. Oh, I did see that. I saw that with my dad, which was a bad idea. And my dad was the one making stupid comments when we left the theater because he was like, that was a bunch of bullshit. I didn't like that. What was that? I thought this was a movie. What was this pretentious bullshit? I didn't like it.

AlexI mean, we did watch the universe get created. Oh, I have some Terrence Malick feelings. Whatever, don't go see a Terrence Malick movie.

MaxDon't go see a Terrence Malick movie then. I don't know what to tell you. Got some feelings.

Let me ask you this. Apple Watch etiquette question. Do you guys have your Apple Watch? Does your Apple Watch produce any sounds whatsoever in any circumstances? What did you do? Did you put the little moon on? Sorry, you turned the little bell off? The bell. Yeah. Doesn't everyone who has an Apple Watch turn the little bell off?

AlexNo, and people also don't turn the clickies off on their keyboard, and I don't. Oh, you need that for your work. Ugh.

MerlinI used to be against it, but I like it now. You know what I love? I love entering in my passcode on the watch in the latest versions.

AlexOh, because it pops a little bit?

MerlinIt's got a nice pop. It's really good. It's morning time. Daddy's got his watch. Here's my thing is I'm usually alone because that's how I roll. So, yeah, I want to hear it. I want to hear the ding. I don't want to, like, say, oh, I have to look at my watch. Like, did I hear a ding? But what about the haptic? I mean, that works, but I also get phantom haptics where I'm like, what was that? And then all I see is the red dot. And now I'm going, oh, I've got to go look at all the things on here. But if I'm pretty much anywhere in public, I mean, I like the theater.

MaxIn my opinion, Apple should ship the Apple Watch with the sound off. That's a terrible idea. And the bell, the little bell icon or whatever, it shouldn't be like a special case where it has a strike through on it when it's off.

MerlinYou're saying you have to turn it. It's like unmuting.

MaxYou should have to turn it on to say I want sound for a while. The default thing of the watch should be it's a haptic device. that's the whole reason you have a watch is that it taps your wrist and you're not walking around like a fucking C-3PO bleeping and blooping and making noises. That's the whole point of the watch. The default thing should be that it's off and you should have to push a little button to have it make sense. Can I talk about my toys now? I'm staring at this thing and I want to play with it. Is it Lego? Yeah. What do you think? Yes. Okay. I don't know. It's a pile of pebbles in a box. It sounds like you were processing grain.

I went on BrickLink and I ordered the vintage Lego set. So I ordered a couple of sets from the 19, I believe it's the 1994 Spireus set. S-P-Y-R-I-U-S, Spireus. Yeah, it's from 1994 to 1996. Lego made a space line called Spireus. This is what I grew up with. I had the little one. So I had the surveillance scooter. I had the space jet and I had the saucer scout. However, my rich friends, when I would go

to their house had the robo guardian and the saucer centurion and i fucking coveted those toys i coveted them i wanted them so badly i wanted it so badly well into high school uh i had friends who had the the robot the robo guardian on their shelf like they had built it and then like left the model put together because that's such a cool model and and i was like and i was like what if i stole that like no probably no one would notice probably probably i could get away with it if I just stole their Lego set.

MerlinBut the thing is, in terms of ethics, I know you studied a lot of this in college, if you want it more, it should be yours. Well, that's just utilitarianism. The most good for the most max. That's right.

MaxYeah. But anyway, I never had these things and I've always wanted them my entire life. And you can go on Bricklink and buy them. And so I did a special order on Bricklink. I got both of them from two different sellers and neither of them showed up in time for the podcast. So I had no Legos. and I really wanted to build some Legos on the podcast so I had my assistant Renee go to Target and buy me a Star Wars AT-AT and it comes with let's see what do I got in here it comes with a resistance trooper Captain Poe Dameron

I guess he gets a promotion to Captain

Merlinit'd be a nice thing for her to put on her resume

Maxfirst order walker driver first order stormtrooper and a little ray I have got a little ray in here

Alexwait no BB-8?

MaxNo, I have the BB-8.

AlexAll right, okay.

MaxI got a BB-8 in my Millennium Falcon.

Speaker AOh, my God. So you can order sets that don't exist anymore? This is crazy. They got all the Harry Potter stuff.

AlexYeah.

Speaker AOh, my God.

MerlinI didn't know this existed. It's been killing me because we got into Harry Potter right around the time they stopped making Harry Potter stuff. You can get the Night Bus. Oh, my God. Oh, Max. And do you like your set she got you?

MaxYeah, I'm very excited. So I just told – I didn't know – I don't like the current Lego lineup. I Oh the creator sets Are awesome What are the creator sets

MerlinCreator sets Are where you get a set And it's usually It depends on the size You get It's usually either Like a building Or a vehicle Like a land vehicle Or a flying vehicle And each Lego creator set Can make three Totally different things

MaxI'm not sure what Yes Okay Permissionary retract And amend my statements

MerlinThose are actually Pretty good I mean I know The diehard Lego people Are like Oh never buy a set That's cheating But they're so fun to make The houses especially Are really cool

MaxNo, I fucking love the creator sets. Those are great. I should say, I do not like the... Branded sets? The flagship Lego sets that you see prominently displayed when you go to Target or whatever.

I liked when Lego made their own IP when they made Big Jim, right? And it was just brand, and they were just inventing branded stuff like Spireus. It was cool. It let your imagination... It gave you just enough that it invited your imagination to fill in the gaps. And to say, what is happening in this universe? And how do you play with this? And why is this fucking awesome red robot with a little spaceship that flies out of it? What's happening here? It was so provocative and so imaginative. I already know what happens in Harry Potter.

I don't want a little Rey. Because that tells you exactly what to do. There's a whole big Hogwarts you can get. I'm sure that it's a better business decision for Lego. I'm sure they sell more sets. Because everyone wants. They don't want to do the. it's not as cool to imagine your own universe. It's more cool to be like, yeah, it's a Hogwarts or it's Ray. I know exactly how to play with this, but that's so fucking lame.

AlexOkay. I think you're, you're not, there's kind of three genres of Lego to me. One is the creator blocks that you, you just, it's like, go crazy, do make whatever you want. And then there's the second genre of like playable sets where you can like open up Hogwarts and open up the millennium Falcon. And then there's the third genre, which is you're making the Millennium Falcon that you never touch again. Like, I remember one time, I agree with Max.

Normally, I really liked the, like, create your own universe type of thing. Although I did have, like, Star Wars and Harry Potter. And then I, like, would mix them up. And then, you know, Hermione would meet Princess Leia. And it's like, oh, oh, my God. Because, you know, Hermione can time travel. So she would go to a galaxy far, far away.

MerlinAnd be back in time for spells class.

MaxI think that is teaching. I think it's limiting your options to the consumption of brands. It's basically inviting kids to remix but not create. And I think it's more fun to.

MerlinI would have said the same thing before I had a kid. So I totally agree with how I would have thought before I had a child. There's something very exciting about getting. So, like, yeah, I mean, I'm not here to apologize for the fact that I like Star Wars stuff. And I buy Star Wars stuff. And, you know, that's just how I am. I like that. There's something really fun about taking this pile of little bricks and following the instructions and having it turn into a land speeder. There's something that's actually really fun about that or saying, like, oh, how is this going to turn into a Millennium Falcon? And you do it. It's more like a puzzle in a lot of ways.

I mean, I don't know. That's a very strident, polemical point of view that I'm sure people will agree with. But it's also really fun.

MaxI'm not against Lego making a Millennium Falcon. But the problem is that all of their stuff is Star Wars. They don't make space stuff anymore.

MerlinWell, to use your word, false. I don't think you've spent any time in a Lego aisle,

Speaker Aor you would know that it's absolutely false.

MaxWell, I tried to go to the Lego store at the mall. Where is it, Alex?

AlexAt Water Tower. And I know exactly what you mean. It's weird if you're alone.

MaxNo, no. Wait, no, at the mall. What's that big? Woodfield. I went to the Lego store in Woodfield a couple years ago. Yeah, there's two. Yeah. Yeah, and okay, it's not that it was weird that I was alone. They didn't fucking let me in the store because I was unaccompanied by a miner. They did not allow me in the store. That's so weird. Yeah. They said you are not allowed to come in the store unless you're with a child.

AlexI mean, okay, go to the one at Water Tower because it is an attraction and there's always adults there alone.

MerlinI would say just go to Target unless you really need to get individual blocks.

MaxI just was looking at Target and they don't have any good space Legos. They're all Star Wars.

AlexOkay.

MerlinWhat would I know about Lego?

AlexYeah. I'm sure.

MerlinI only have a child who's been playing with them since she could hold it in her hand. Yep. Now, there's funny ironies in the Lego world if you're actually involved in doing it, buying mini sets a year like we do, as opposed to popping into the mall once.

MaxFor example, there's a series. No, not popping into the mall once. Not popping into the mall once. That's the whole point.

AlexWell, that was the Lego. That's why I adore the Lego movie because they created, they were like, okay, this.

Speaker AYou're like the kind of parents who are like, oh, they're only going to watch educational TV. And it's like, you know what's funny? Educational TV sucks. sucks. PBS is not good.

AlexOh, remember Baby Einstein?

Speaker ACan I just mention Friends? Can I mention Friends very quickly? No, I don't like these fucking

Maxtwo-faced Legos where they have faces printed on both sides and you're supposed to turn it around and they can make different expressions. You should only have one

Merlinface. There's a Lego.

MaxYou should have to make your own Legos out of wood like Big Josh. Let me say one other thing. I don't like the weird flesh-colored Legos. The skin color of Lego is yellow. It's yellow. The skin color, they don't have a race. Did they ruin your childhood, Max? Do you feel like they ruin your childhood don't make them white they're making they're making white legos now it's weird

Merlinyeah um the friends series is at first looks very problematic because it's obviously aimed at little girls well here's the funny thing about friends so go look at lego friends and you look at you go oh god you've got to be kidding me it's all just it's the bar it's barbies for lego is what it looks like at first the pink hang on now now relax relax your sphincter look at what you're making and look at the pieces that you get. You get such cool. Think about, yeah, yeah, you get little animals, which is cool. But what I'm trying to say is Lego pieces, Lego Friends.

But look at the cool kinds of things you can make. Like you can make all this stuff that is actually really fun. What I'm trying to say is there are pieces you get in the Lego Friends that you just don't see anywhere else. And while it is a brand in the sense that it is like their thing, you make the coolest stuff. I have come to approve of this because just the things that you're actually Setting aside the branding of it and the marketing of it, the things that you actually make are really fun. It's fun to make a bakery. It's really cool. Little kids love making – little kids love food businesses. It's the basis of many video games that we play – my daughter plays.

It's the basis of many things. There's lots of like let's do a thing involving food and commerce. That's all I'm going to say about that.

AlexI was a big aquarium kid. Like I wanted to make my own aquariums. And they have an entire set. Oh, capture the fun. Oh, I'm – What was your childhood toy, Alex?

MaxYeah.

AlexAn aquarium? No, no. Big Jim? Are either of you familiar with the 2XL cassette playing robot?

Speaker AOh, my God. Did he used to play eight tracks? There was one like this with an eight track. Oh, geez, dude. Look at this. You sent us a video of this.

AlexYes, yes.

MaxThis was another toy that my rich friends had growing up. I never had this, and I always thought it was very cool.

MerlinActually, it's so funny you say that, Max. I've got a whole segment I want to do in this program about toys I envied and wanted to steal from other children that I felt they did not deserve. I deserved I deserve the Han Solo blaster more than anybody else.

MaxAnd I never got it. I'm really delighted that you also did that math of like, like, I never stole toys from my friends. But there was a part in the back of my head of thinking about like, oh, I probably could get away with this. Like they wouldn't even they have so many toys they wouldn't even notice. They don't care.

Speaker AIt's a rescue. It's not a suicide. It's a rescue because they don't love it as much as you. You deserve it more. You should have it.

MerlinIf they loved it more, then they should keep it. But they don't. So they won't. You take it away. They don't know. Then you get in trouble later.

AlexNow I'm wondering if I was the rich kid.

MerlinIf you don't know who the rich kid in the room is, it's probably you.

AlexYeah. There were a couple of friends who had their own loft and a pool table.

MerlinWell, it's not like you got a computer. It's not like you got a Mac they gave you. It's not like you got an iPhone when you were a kid.

AlexYeah. Moving on. You know what?

MerlinNo, I'm not here to pee on your poo. Tell me about the 2XL robot toy.

AlexI actually did not know that my 2XL was the second edition because it was acquired by Tiger Toys, Mattel's Tiger line. But when Jason Snell visited our office, he was like, I know that's your desk because there's a 2XL. I had the original 2XL. I didn't even know this existed. And it's this like, you're right. I could not put... I remember one that had an 8-track.

Speaker AYeah. I think it is. Yes, it's Amigo 2XL.

MerlinAnd, oh, God, this thing's hilarious. It's like if a child-drawn robot was a slot machine that also had an 8-track player in it.

AlexYep, yep.

MerlinI'll send you the video for this one.

AlexI'm going to play you the commercial for the 2XL that I had. I believe it's in show notes for you, Merlin.

MerlinYep.

Speaker BMy little brother has more brains in his finger than all you put together. That's who! Says 2XL. Food facts. A peanut is neither a pea nor a nut. True sports. If a fly ball hits the foul pole. Home run! Animals. Has it ever rained frogs? Yes! Space. True monsters. Pretty nifty, but I'm pushing.

2XL comes with one program tape. Additional tape sold separately. Batteries not included.

MaxOh my god. He's very Jewish sounding. Yeah, he is. Doesn't he sound very Jewish? Like, I have a delicate tooth, though. I need to be moved away from this draft.

Speaker AIt's very, very moist in here. That was some very good button pushing. Bernie Bernstein, robot at large. Actually, the thing to know mostly about a peanut is that many people are allergic to it, including me. Don't ruin my... I have an intestinal disorder with a robot. Why is a smart robot program to sound Jewish?

Actually, I think you're thinking of Ken Griffey Jr. Oh, my lower tract. Mazel tov.

AlexNo, no, no. All right. Continuing.

MaxCan you play on YouTube, Alex? Can you play some more videos of him for us?

AlexAll right. Can you please play another video of him for us? This is a weird thing where I don't know how to really explain this, but this robot both got yelled at and stuff got dark. So this is a tape where he keeps fucking up and you can hear what happens when his, well, you'll see.

Speaker BThank you so much for turning me on. I am 2XL, and this program is about a step. You see, I know it says pets on the label, but they made a mistake, and they printed it backwards. And you see, step backwards is pets. So this program is really about a step. We will learn about a stone step, a wooden step, a big step, and even a small step.

step. We'll even learn about moving steps called escalators.

AlexAll right, hold on, hold on. This is where it gets big.

Speaker BOh, no. Someone calling me on the phone during a program. Let me answer it. Who is it? 2XL, it's your event board. There's no mistake. This program is about pets. The label's not backwards. 2XL, the program's about pets. I'm sorry, sir. I'm sorry. I made a little He's so Jewish. He's so Jewish. Yes, pets. We've heard about cockroaches as pets. Parrots, dogs, cats, and many, many pets. But please remember to always follow my instructions very carefully.

Oh, my God. It's getting worse. And only press my buttons after I say the word now. All right.

Speaker ASo my name is Moishe Apologywitz. I'm very sorry that I keep making arrows. All right. I am your inventor, Shmool Apologetica.

I'm so happy that Jared Kushner is working for the president. You can give him good advice. Why always are they causing such a ruckus for you, Jared?

AlexAll right.

Speaker AOne more thing. Holy shit. No, no, hang on, Max. Did that get more? You know these things. Did that get more Jewish as it went along? It's very Jewish.

MaxI mean, I don't know what to say about it other than that they were like, We need a nerdy robot that everyone kind of loathes that is going to be a smart ass and know a lot of trivia, but be so robotic as to not be able to relate to other human beings. Oh, my God. What voice should we give it?

Speaker ACool black guy like Big Josh? And he was presented without stereotypes. That was very unusual at the time.

MerlinOkay, so you got this thing. And so when you got it, did you have lots of different cassettes? The cassettes were thematic.

Speaker ALike after the initial – like what was the kept you interested in? You had to buy toys for your toy.

AlexYou had to buy cassettes for the toy, and they were interactive.

MaxNo, you don't want to buy toys for your toy.

AlexWell, he would get little treats to go on his belly. And I actually have a 2XL here, but he still doesn't work, even though eBay said he would work. I bought two, and none of them worked. You have tapes? Yeah. I have monsters, myths, and dinosaurs in here. Put it in. What happens? No, nothing. I can't even turn the little guy on. It's a bummer. However...

MaxThat sounds like a very Jewish problem.

AlexThere was a weird...

Speaker AThis cassette is chafing me. Can we open a window? It's a little bit close in here. What am I with the mezuzah and the whatnot? Oh, my God. Chicken soup.

AlexWhat was really cool, though, is some of the cassettes, most of them were quizzes, but some of them, it was like a choose-your-own-adventure story. But I just want to share this one with you guys because it gets a little weird.

Speaker BI would now like to do something from my Story Maker program. I would like you to help me make up a story. If you would like this story to be about a little girl named Joanie press one a little boy named Matthew press two Please push one or two now

It's mystical If you want this girl or boy to meet a three a black owl press four Four. Is it four? There's one or four now.

MaxHow does it... Can you pause for a second?

Speaker BYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

MaxHow does it work? Does it fast... Is it programmed to fast-forward the tape a certain number of seconds? Yes.

MerlinYeah. I think it's... If you think about the way that's implemented... Do you guys remember 8-tracks? Did you ever use them at all? No. So an 8-track tape was... It was supposed to be, like, fairly, like, higher quality than an album, which it wasn't. But you pop it in, and it had four what are called programs. so you'd be listening to your Queen album and about whatever the point was, so you think about how you would put stuff on a cassette and obviously you couldn't run a song up to the end, whatever would fit on the first quarter of the tape, fit and then it would automatically forward go chunk chunk and jump to the next and that would play the

next quarter of the record and the third and the fourth and the only way to quote unquote fast forward was to change program, you couldn't change where the tape head was on the tape with the four tracks on it but you hit chunk chunk and it would take and chunk chunk again and it would take you two programs forward I imagine what it's doing is a canny version of like when you hit this it takes you to this point and they've recorded things of probably the approximately same length is this making any sense?

AlexNo, no But when you're hearing

MerlinI'm guessing that when you hear your mystical noise it's fast forwarding the tape to the right point

AlexAlright, the Dr. Pepper Duchess wants you to hear the rest.

Speaker Bthe rest thank you that was fun now let's listen to the story that you just made up once upon a time there was a little girl named joanie joanie was taking a walk in the woods near her home one day when suddenly it began to look like a storm was coming She tried to get home real fast, but realized she was lost. Just then, she... she met a cute, little furry squirrel.

Can you help me out of the woods? Asked Joni. Sure can, said the squirrel. And just then, it began to rain and storm. The squirrel was designed for a tree, but yelled back, go that way until you see a big oak tree near a waterfall. Turn right, and that's the way out of the woods.

MaxWhat story is this? Yeah, good story, 2XL. This is when a bunch of Jews get together to have dinner with each other, and they just talk about directions to places. Like, then you take 94 and you save up there. Pass all the traffic.

MerlinIt was very unclear where the line was. It could have been that there were two lines or there was one line, but it was very unclear. And at a certain point, they kind of zip a line together. It was very difficult to tell.

Speaker AAnd I said, what am I here? What am I, garbage? Which line am I supposed to be in? Is this one line or two? The problem is you're getting off at the junction every time. You get stuck at the junction. The problem is not the junction. The problem is the directions that were provided to me.

AlexAll right, now we're going to help 2XL finish the story.

Speaker BI need you to help me end this story. If you would like this story to have a happy ending, press 1. A sad ending, press 2.

Speaker A2, 2, 2, 2.

Speaker BNow. Back to the story. Joanie ran and ran and hoped the directions were correct. Suddenly, there it was. The big oak tree near the waterfall. She was so happy. Joanie ran to the tree and turned left by mistake and is still somewhere out there lost.

AlexHoly shit.

Speaker BWell, I hope you enjoyed that story. After all, if you did not like it, the next time you play this program, change it. Yep, that's it. Whoa. What is going on?

AlexAnd this is not an isolated incident. every story had would you like a happy ending or a sad ending? And you always

Maxchoose sad. You know I know that we haven't heard the voice command that are promised as one of the banner features on Smalt. But I have to imagine that this is how Smalt is going to sound. If I show you what to dispense that much salt

Speaker Athat's very bad for your cardiac health. I am programmed to follow your directions. What if I keep dispensing this amount of salt? You're going to have a cardiac event. Oi, why was I programmed to have self-consciousness? Is there a chance you would let me die? What could I do to let you have you in this? Although it's helping today, a little brisket that looks so good. It looks store-bought. You guys moved on past Joanie so fast.

AlexI'm so...

Speaker AThe salt is nice for you, but it's maybe not so great for me. What am I, I'm lights now?

AlexShe's still lost in the woods without any internet connection device.

Speaker AWell, maybe next time you should change the story. It's your fault. You're the one who made that little girl go in the woods, and we don't even know where she is. I'm a robot. So is the idea that you're supposed to learn to always select the happy ending? Is that what they're modeling?

MaxWe're going to meet the nice Jewish boy.

Speaker AWhat? What? Now you're going to dwell in the woods? When are we going to get some grandkids? Well, it's fine. I have sacrifices for my entire life, so my daughter can get lost in the woods. Anyway, Marlon, I was just telling you, I have the best proctologist. Well, you know, they're going to get to the bottom of that. But this little girl, now I'm turning into Chico Marx. That's no good boss. hey that's a great toy alex holy shit very very weird it was the rich kid i think

Merlincan i can i be honest and i realized there's something i should disclose about myself when I was the rich kid.

I like to tell this story because it's one of the things that made me very, very happy as a child. I was a pretty smart kid. And the pretty smart kids in my elementary school, well, long story short, Kenner Toys, which is based in Cincinnati, came into the public schools. And if there were kids that could afford to miss a little bit of time, we got to playtest new toys before they were released in school.

MaxAnd they were awarded this one. You got a treat? The smart kids got a treat?

MerlinGot a treat. You could take home SSTs, those cars with the zip line you pull, and it shoots across the floor. I playtested Stretch Armstrong a couple years before it was on the market. Every new toy they would let us play with and often take home for a week. That was very cool. Oh, my God. It was so fucking baller. And in that case, yeah, I was the rich kid. But I wanted that blaster so much. Did you ever hold the Han Solo blaster in your hand? It really felt like you were holding a pistol. It was really, really cool.

AlexI mean my favorite toy store was Zany Brainy rest in peace yeah hell yeah Zany Brainy I got I got so many good toys from Zany Brainy it was the best they somehow conned parents into thinking that it was like those were like good toys yeah the the idea behind Zany Brainy was oh we don't

Maxsell weapons do you want to hear a crazy Zany Brainy story yes please one time my mom this is not typical of my childhood but one day my mom came home she was out shopping and she came home to my brother and I and she goes I was at zany brainy to get a party for or to get a gift for your friend's party or something not a gift for us or someone else right and it was on my chore list I had to go to zany brainy and get a smart wooden educational puzzle or something and while I was at zany brainy they were unpacking a new game it's she my I remember I have a fucking

9-11 flashbulb memory of this moment and my mom said it's some sort of weird Japanese game that's a huge fad, and kids are going crazy for it in Japan, and they were just unpacking it and putting it on the shelf at Zany Brainy, and I talked to the lady at the store about it, and she said it was very cool, and I bought it for you and your brother. And she takes it out of the bag, and it is a game. It is two Game Boy cartridges, Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue. And I took Pokemon Red,

and my brother took Pokemon Blue. No one had ever heard of it before. I got fucking Pokemon Red on day one.

AlexHoly shit.

MaxDay one.

AlexOh, man.

MaxWow. It was very uncharacteristic of my mom to show up and for no reason be like, I got you a very cool present.

AlexWell, they did. It's like a game. They tricked parents into thinking that everything in their store was educational because they didn't sell guns, but they did sell lightsabers and like medieval. I know that's not the right word. I don't like night swords. And they also had a book club. So every week you would come and you would discuss a book that you had read that week, which was genius because my mom bought me a new book every week. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then they went out of business because they sold educational.

Oh, God. And they sold all the Pokemon cards.

MaxWell, I assume because of Amazon. I assume they went out of business for the reason everyone goes out of business.

AlexIt was like 2003. 2003. This was way... Yep, defunct 2003. Oh, man. That was a huge bummer. And there was a little worm.

MaxI think it's possible I got a pretty early Tamagotchi from Zany Brainy as well.

AlexOh, wow. Maybe it's because they kept importing cool toys.

MaxThat would be a fun challenge. We should do a Tamagotchi challenge and just try and keep a Tamagotchi alive for a week.

MerlinThat's where you have the little keychain you got to feed?

AlexYeah. Yeah. I'm sure he would love that.

MaxSeems like the kind of thing Marlon would like.

MerlinI'd be so into that. I could join the Klan.

MaxWhy'd you have a kid if you were...

MerlinI know. I know. What even was I doing?

MaxHave a little keychain that you have to keep alive.

MerlinI see this with my kid where she has certain friends that when they come over, are always drawn magnetically to certain toys. And often that's not. It's something that my only child does not want played with by other people. But I used to be like that. My friend had a Corgi James Bond Goldfinger car. And this is back when toys, like buildings, were made much more beautifully than they needed to be. And so I don't know if you can still find this, but I think it's C-O-R-G-I Goldfinger car.

And it was so cool. It would shoot stuff, and it had a little shield and it was super metal. I wanted it so much and I wasn't even allowed to touch it. Oh my God, look at this Aston Martin. Look how cool this thing is. Oh my God, this is gorgeous.

AlexIs there a toy, like what makes your daughter not want to share, is this an only child thing or is it just, okay.

MerlinVery much, very much. I think it's, yeah, she doesn't have people who mess with her stuff. She has people who are like professionally, people who spend all day cleaning up her stuff. She doesn't have stuff disappear. She doesn't have dolls defenestrated. Like, none of that happens. So, like, for her birthday, she got a Coraline doll that's somewhere between a collectible and a doll. It's like you don't need to keep it behind glass, but you wouldn't want to, like, play with it in the mud. And, like, every time her friends come over, we have to hide the Coraline so that nobody touches it.

AlexDig Dug, I don't know if you're going to want to address this, Merlin, but I have some video game questions for you. as we're talking about childhood experiences.

Speaker ASure.

AlexOn the last Reconcilable Differences, which I was yelling at both you and Syracusa at various times.

MerlinIt's really super surprising to hear. I don't get that much. I don't get people wanting to have me work as a proxy to post a different podcast. I don't get that very often, so this is a nice treat for me. So anyway, you were yelling at me about a video game.

AlexNo, no, no. no no no no no no um i see so the the episode is about you trying to play the last of us which is a triple a game in which you fight off zombies but there's also a lot of feels and people play it for the narrative story much you guys made me want to play it you're the two whom i think it

Merlinmight have been in the after show but you guys had mentioned this to me and i was like oh you know i've got that i should go back and play that again that's what made me want to play it was you

Alexguys talking about it and there and syracusa was very worried about this because there's sort of a game literacy that you lack, which...

MaxIt's not a good game. Here's my take. It's not a good game. It's really hard to play, and the combat is boring and stressful.

AlexWell, Merlin has the PS4 version, which I think... Which is the only version. The version that I played as well. Oh, really? Yeah, it's PS4 exclusive. I kind of... I usually pass it to someone when there was the shooty, killy stuff. but I kind of understand Syracuse's inclination of like if you watch man now I don't want to talk about it now yeah no go ahead I can take it I no no no I because I understand like you you enjoy it

the way you want to enjoy it like if you can if you want to hop up and down that ladder and it brings you joy then hop up and down the ladder like there there's this game threes which you also addressed where I still play this game almost every day and it's a puzzle game. Yeah. But, but I often don't play it. I just kind of use it as like a fidget spinner. Really? Like I just move the little box around.

MerlinIt's fun to move the little cards around.

AlexYeah. And, and that's not how it's meant to be played. But yeah. I like the little noises. Yeah. Hello. Hi. Hi. I like it when the whale gets angry, but I'm sure Asher and Greg aren't like, oh God, no, you need to get the high score. but yeah there's also something to be said for if you can't well you do this too though merlin like you find it hard to get an album for like is i'm trying to think of a silkworm you didn't know how

like what to show us that would make us love the band and it's we keep trying to find video games that you'll like because we want to share this media with you because well one because we're self-conscious and we want to think it's cool.

MaxMerlin's trying to get us to like Silkworm and we're like trying to get Merlin to like music as a genre. No, no, no. Some people are just like, I don't like music. I didn't have it as a kid and I don't like this. What is this? You play it rhythmically and the melody changes?

MerlinIt's amazing how good you guys are at selling this.

AlexYou make it really appealing. The entire community has been

Merlinvery embracing. I am not on Syracuse's side. I'm always getting it wrong. No matter what I say, I'll always get it

Speaker Awrong which makes it even more welcoming for me it's so nice to feel absolutely getting it right

Alexthough like talking about being a gamer though is people excluding you until they don't anymore

Maxyeah and then and then you get to exclude other people that's the whole gamer i have almost

Merlinunlimited amounts of time for that so it's very it's something i definitely want to clear my

Maxevening for okay if you start me if you start making fun of me too much for playing games i'll just i'll just turn it back on alex and i'll be like alex part of this is i'm not making fun of I'm not really a gamer.

AlexYou're playing Flucky Rock. Well, when you were talking about playing in the toy box in Disney Infinity, oh, rest in peace. Oh, I know.

MerlinIt's so much fun, and it keeps unfolding. As you learn more stuff, you can do more stuff. And oh, my God, now my house can have different stories to it. It's so fun.

AlexYou absolutely play video games. And Syracuse, it's the same thing with Millennium Actress. He wants you to enjoy it in a specific way. And I was like, holy shit, Merlin absolutely plays video games. And so now we're not going to do a video game challenge for a while. But I want to find games that you will enjoy in the way that you team dreshed. Oh, my God. That album. Oh, did you get into it? Oh, my God. I mean, now it's on pause.

Speaker ADoesn't it give you the feels?

AlexYes. Oh, God. All the feels.

Speaker AI'm not even a gay lady, and it gives me huge feels.

AlexIt is absolutely amazing. And that's why, like, I don't know if I should recommend Gone Home With You because there are a lot of things like-

MerlinWhat about that Edith Finch game?

AlexWhat Remains of Edith Finch? I don't know because it's difficult. Yes, it is very good. But also it's difficult for some people to play, which is fine. Like, I don't know if you'd like a game like Spelunky, which is one of my favorite games that I'm terrible at. But I don't play it the, like, quote, right way. Like, I enjoy playing with Maddie and there's a whip mechanic. And if you have two players, you can whip each other. And so we kind of whip each other until the first person dies and then the other person is with it.

MerlinSpelunky is the painting game, right?

AlexNo. Spelunky is a roguelike platformer, I guess you'd call it. What am I thinking of?

MerlinWhat's the game where you shoot painted people? That's not Spelunky? Splatoon. Splatoon. Sorry. Okay.

AlexAnd that's a game that I think you would love except there's really no open world to Splatoon, which is a bummer because I feel like you would love going around shooting paint on walls. It's delightful.

MerlinI think it's a bummer because, I mean, Infinity... Max, you're the one who doesn't like Funko Pop dolls, right? You mean precious moments, figurines for nerds? Yes.

Infinity, it's interesting because that was one of the first things we spent any time on when we got our PS4 a couple Christmases ago, I guess. Whenever the Battlefront game came out, we got the Darth Vader PlayStation. And what was interesting was at that time, it could be the reason we got into it, but it was kind of sold as a little bit of a Funko Pop thing, which is like, hey, when you get this little Rey doll, now you can play and you get the skills of Rey.

Play Luke Skywalker. He's got all the skills. But anyway, you get different skills with different people. Like you can be Boba Fett and fly around and stuff like that. And we actually have quite a lot of them. But it is funny as somebody coming into this from the outside, once I did not get into it but become aware of how to play it and do it, was, oh, my God, it's so hilarious. I'm not really buying dolls. I'm not buying these things because they're collectibles. I'm buying them because they're DRM devices. This is a DRM key to be able to play this thing, and that's kind of a weird thing.

But I wonder why couldn't they make that work? I mean how hard would it be to keep that game running I mean why and like my friend my pal Adam lost a job because of this like why did they stop making it

Maxwas it just not profitable enough yeah because Disney doesn't understand video games and although it was it was so fun I would play this for the rest of my life it's really fun it's a thing that if any of the three of us were involved in it it would make us we would be rich beyond our wildest dreams and it would be like this incredibly successful and lucrative business but because it's Disney, it made less money than like Frozen. So Disney was like, why are we throwing resources at this when we could have people make Frozen dolls or whatever? That's the logic I've heard.

I'm not saying that's good logic. Right, right, right.

MerlinBut it had a lot going for it. I mean, it was really cute. The gameplay was really fun. And if you're somebody like me, and listen, to John Syracuse's credit, when I got the PS4, Christmas morning was so overwhelming to me. It was really a pain in the ass to get the account set up. And the updating. and updating, but also like you couldn't get to the server. And John was my Sherpa. I had prearranged for him to be my Sherpa for that. And he was very kind to help me out on a busy day. And, you know, there are still things about the entire experience I find weird, but like, just not in my own defense, but just as a, as a fact to stipulate at this point,

most devices that you get, let's say you get an iPhone, you've never used an iPhone in your life. Like from the time you first pick up an iPhone, there's a first run experience that makes you feel like, Oh, I'm kind of getting a feel for how I would use this device. I've never had a phone in my life but now i understand when i slide my finger like this this happens and that'll be reinforced and you'll see it in different places there's no tutorial for playstation if you're somebody who's vaguely interested in in video games as a thing and want to dip a toe and i'm really ready to close this chapter whenever you guys want but i just want to stipulate like i

bought in like i'm gonna do this my kid you know so we're gonna have this like pretty good video game platform there really is no place to go in and say like here's generally what you do with the sticks or here's when you use the shoulder button like there's no way to there's not i mean i guess you could go buy a book about it you could buy a dummies book but the closest thing to that that we had to be honest was infinity infinity was instantly engaging and fun you plug in the platform you do it and it really gingerly walks you into how you interact with that video game world and that's maybe one reason that i really liked and appreciated it was it wasn't asking a lot it was very relaxing there was no story to it and in the same way that it's fun to tag mp3s

Sometimes it's fun to just walk around with your little companion and paint a wall. And I think it's not a good sign that they couldn't sustain that because that should be a game. I feel like a game like that, maybe not where Disney makes all the dough, but that should ship on every unit. I mean, there should be something that's the equivalent of combat on the Atari.

MaxPlayStation 3 used to have that. It was a thing called PlayStation Home or whatever. It was like a little world and you'd make an avatar and your guy could run around in the world. and it was a city or something.

MerlinJust learning how to select and change and move around. When do you use arrows versus when do you use buttons versus when do you use the sticks? You ask any video game person, they're like, well, it depends. It means difference. Okay, but treat me like the dummy that I am. I have not done this for 30 years. How do I do this as somebody who's not done this for 30 years?

MaxThere used to be a thing that was exactly what you're describing. It was a miserable failure and it was terrible. I know that because I made a game for it. It was really, really bad. and PlayStation learned their lesson and didn't do it again.

Other systems do do that. They have a world that's native to the operating system. But I think you said it, which is like that's a little bit like saying when you get a computer, like if you get a Mac, what does the mouse button do? It's like, well, it depends on what you're clicking on.

MerlinWell, the mouse button does different things in every application. That's a dumb question.

MaxOkay, well, the buttons, the PlayStation buttons do different things in every application.

MerlinAll right, right. But I mean, something as simple as green triangle.

MaxYeah.

MerlinWell, just to say, like, green triangle generally is kind of like your do button. Or like the A button.

MaxYou can't, there is no such rule. So when the original PlayStation controller was created by the original designer, the four buttons corresponded to how he thought most games would need to be, to work. So the square was supposed to be a map, and I don't remember what they are, but all the symbols correlated to something. And that fell apart as soon as they made two games.

MerlinYeah.

MaxLike, learning the rule of what the triangle does does not ever help you.

AlexJust a quick public service announcement. If you are a parent and you're new to consoles, please, before Christmas, open up the console and set everything up beforehand. because it's a real kick in the clit. Oh, that's a good idea. It's Christmas morning. It's just a big, big, you're going to.

MerlinAnd it's usually down. It's usually down at the moment everybody's trying to get to it.

MaxThe year that you got the PlayStation, there was a really nasty DDoS against the PlayStation service.

AlexYeah. PlayStation is just going to stomp on your clit just over and over again. Not your stamps. I keep saying that. Yep, yep. You're making it worse. It's making you guys uncomfortable, huh?

MerlinI don't have a feeling one way or the other. I've never found it. I don't think it exists. I think it's like a Yeti. Oh, yeah. Click, click, click, click, click. Yeah, you can't tell what the green triangle does. It's different in every game. Give me a fucking break.

AlexThat's a pretty good spot right there. I think that's a great spot.

MerlinI love you guys. Terrible, awful people.

54. Is This Coco? 0:00 / 01:09:34