52. Jazz Girl

AlexThis is Do By Friday, a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, read Max's U.S. political Twitter list.

MaxLive challenge. It's live. We're live.

Speaker AIt's our first live episode. Happy Black Friday. Happy Friday. oh that went so much better than i anticipated it's kind of weird alex i thought i thought you

Merlinwere gonna fuck it up i know i really did too even though i pitched my wife on this i was like it's gonna be so great because alex is gonna come in and she's gonna screw it up and get mad it's

Maxgonna be so good alex even though we record a podcast for multiple hours a week together and i work with you every day it's still very weird to hear you do the intro i've actually never heard you do the intro upsetting oh i've heard it before you guys come in i've heard it like a hundred times. I know. It's weird. Very weird. Tell people what's going on, you guys. What's happening? I don't know. Merlin, you're a little quiet in my headphones. Can we turn the headphones off?

AlexSorry, Max! Tell everybody what's going on! That's good. Thank you. Our engineer Chris is in the studio. As this is a live show, thanks to all of our live listeners, can you pull up our jazz bumpers as well a bit, please?

MaxWhat do you guys know? What's the Thanksgiving plan? What's the playbook here?

AlexOh, OPSEC. TBD.

MerlinTBD! It was a great Thanksgiving and now we're live because it's fucking Friday. Wait, why can't we say

Maxwhat our Thanksgiving plans are?

AlexWell, now it's socially acceptable for me to put up all my Christmas decorations and I'm going to go to the terrible, terrible suburbs and that's it. How about you?

MaxWe're having everyone over to our place.

AlexHooray!

MaxWe have both the families coming over. What are you doing, Merlin? I'm going to stay in my house

Merlinwith lots of guns so don't go there. I also got a fucking dog. We've compromised the opsec. Okay, edit this out. You know what? I'll do a video walkthrough. I'll do a video walkthrough to show you all my guns. If you Antifa want to come to my house, it'll be fine with me. Fucking Thanksgiving, here's your present. He opened it early. It's a gun.

AlexHave either of you done the whole Thanksgiving Jenga situation, or any holiday Jenga, really, where you have to go to multiple places on the same day? I thought you meant play Jenga on Thanksgiving. No, that's much more fun. Okay. That's much, much more fun.

MerlinI was pouring coffee, but I have definitely done that. I've been in, I think in today's fraught environment, well, you know, as a kid coming up, I grew up in that age where I believe it first became conventional wisdom that about half of marriages ended in divorce. And so you have this kind of like man-abroad fractal holiday where you're like, oh, we'll figure out all these impossible combinations of everybody in their new family. And then the new family has to do things with the new family. It's like scheduling a goddamn podcast in August.

Speaker AIt's impossible.

MerlinAnd so you have to make all these accommodations where you're like, we'll have leftovers with them, but we'll be with them for this. And then you have to get into this arc. And really, this will be fun for you to look forward to, Alex. is you start having to figure out how to accommodate and make up for this in the next holiday. We're like, okay, we're coming for all of Easter, and it's going to be great.

MaxIt'll be like super Christmas. It can be so stressful. Now, what do you guys – tell me about the Thanksgiving meal here.

AlexWell, as you know, Max, I come from the meat talking family.

MaxYou're a bit of a foodie.

AlexOh, yes, yes. You're kind of known on this podcast. I, so my family is actually a bunch of foodies if you count like, you know, pork as a foodie situation. So most people would consider my Thanksgiving dinner like top of the notch. Amazing people, non-family members come to it. But I have a separate meal in which I have homemade chicken fingers, raw, raw asparagus and some buttered corn. You get a treat? You get a toy? I do, I do.

and then they give me a little sucker

Merlinand it's great. They get you the McDonald's Coke? You can have a water or a milk.

Speaker AYou're joking, but that happens. Dad break.

MerlinOh, God, we should do this every week.

AlexI spit on the table because Max made it funny. Oh, here.

MaxDo you see, oh, well, okay, I have a lot, this brings up a lot of questions. I have a lot of meat-related questions. Number one, I've upgraded my home smoker situation. I now have – I got a 500-pound commercial smoker lifted onto my balcony with a crane.

Merlin500 pounds of what? What? Well, I'm sorry. This is going to be one of those scale situations. Does the smoker weigh 500 pounds or does it contain 500 pounds of meat?

MaxNo, no, no, no, no, no. The smoker itself, it's like a huge commercial smoker. Oh, shit, dog. I had to make a relationship with a restaurant supply company and I got this huge commercial smoker so it's like it's like the smoker that wins championship barbecue things although I'm not that I'm honestly not that good at it I'm still learning but I'm switching I'm upgrading from my I had like a little electric smoker that's

a lot easier to use but not as good and I'm going all in So did your family have like the pork hookup for me?

AlexYou know what? I mean, yeah. Ask any time. We do not have a Vienna beef hookup anymore, but you got that. But yeah, I know. You want the fancy pig meats. Yeah, yeah. We should have one of my very confused family members and have like a pork challenge in which I don't participate at all.

MaxOh, my God. Can they mail pork?

AlexOh, yeah. No, all the time they're offering a send meat.

MaxChallenge idea. Here we go. Here we go. You and I both make pork. You're not going to eat it. And we mail one to Merlin. Now, Merlin loves his delivery meats. Merlin, are you currently subscribed to any delivery meat services?

MerlinNo, I don't have any current blood bags, but I certainly have enjoyed having meat delivered to my house. Any pork you want to send me would be happily received. I think that's totally legal.

AlexHave either of you been in, not a butcher shop, but a packing house?

MaxOh, yeah. No, thank you.

AlexOh, yeah. Not scarring at all.

MaxNo, not a slaughterhouse, a packing house.

AlexJust a packing house. Like a slaughterhouse is almost like, like I've also been in one of those, but it was one of like the humane ones in like Portland. And it was like, okay, this is very upsetting, but I understand. But it.

MaxWhat makes it humane exactly?

AlexI don't know. They told me that and I believed.

MaxThey play a little jazz for the animals. Let it take some AP classes.

AlexYeah, it was fine.

MaxThey give them a little Xanax before they slaughter them.

AlexYeah, there's.

MaxNow I've watched videos of pigs being slaughtered. They do not make a good noise. The noise they make, I would describe it as haunting.

MerlinI think it's one of the noises they used as an audio effect in The Exorcist. It's apparently a very upsetting noise. The Wilhelm pork.

AlexThey're so smart, you guys. You can teach them to sit. They're easier than cats. They're so smart. We're just eating dolphins. I know.

MaxI'm sorry. Oh, no. So I have two turkeys. I'm smoking. I spatchcocked one turkey. I'm doing a dry brine.

Speaker AI just learned that word on Bob's Burgers this week.

MaxWell, I'm very on trend because that Bob's Burgers episode was making fun of me very much so.

MerlinYou're not doing a three-day brine?

MaxNo, I've already been stressing out about the dry brine time as my family can attest.

Speaker AIn this economy?

MaxIn this economy. So I spatchcocked and then I'm going to smoke it. And then the other turkey, we're doing like a more traditional oven roasted turkey because I know that some of my guests will not – the smoked turkey is not quite traditional enough. It has too much flavor and juiciness for them.

MerlinHave you – so this is – I'm a weirdo about these things. When I get a new device, I feel like I like to try a couple things as test projects in it before I go all in on event dining. Yes. Have you done any test 500-pound cooks?

MaxI have not smoked this. So I smoked a turkey on the other smoker last year. This is my first turkey on this smoker, which is also why it's good that we have a backup turkey. But I've done some short rib and smoked some tofu.

AlexSmoked tofu. That can be so good.

MaxDo you use firm? It's very good. Extra firm. Extra firm? Mm-hmm. Merlin, on your other show, on your other program with John Roderick, do you know what i'm talking about yeah i think i know what this is about what do you know well

Merlinwait what do you think it's about oh i was gonna guess that it's about john going in on a steer getting a ton of very costly meat and then just dropping it into a pan with oil

Maxit wasn't about it wasn't about that but now it is no no no go ahead what's the other what's the other one okay you talked about um sorry edit that out alex you know i you know i listened this podcast on like a six month delay and you were talking a while back about adopting a homeless guy in San Francisco

Merlinyes and your

Maxhomeless guy is kind of having some tough times and you saw him on the train was the story that you told

Merlinyes yeah I saw him two days ago sleeping on the street

Maxin West Portal how do you adopt a homeless guy you sort of glossed over this and I was like how do you initiate first contact

MerlinI never really thought about it very much. The basic notion is that, and this is just my own thing, this is not advice. Please don't send me things about how I shouldn't give money to homeless people. Shut up. It's the holidays. So you will, in walking around really almost any city at this point, but especially in a city like San Francisco where there's a really serious homeless problem. A homeless problem in the sense that a lot of people don't have homes.

Sorry.

Speaker ANo, you're correct.

MerlinAs opposed to you're messing up the mall, stinky guy.

Speaker AYeah.

MerlinYou will have a sad realization, even in my suburban neighborhood, that there are at least a handful of people that you see a lot and often. And over time, you may develop like sort of like a nodding relationship. You know, you might get a, hey, how's it going kind of thing going on. Or for whatever personal reason, you adopt sounds condescending. But what I mean is I have a practice of I don't give money to every person who asks for it or seems to need it.

I kind of choose one person that for just mostly for me, every time I see him, I give him this amount of money. And my guy is Larry.

Speaker AThat's so nice. Well, no, it's not really that nice. Does he know who you are?

MerlinIt would be nice if I could wave a wand and make everything go away. But like anybody who's actually given two seconds of thought to this problem and researched it knows that this is so much more ridiculously complicated and multivariate than simply saying, here's this easy way to fix this problem. This city has tried somewhat. But what it comes down to is there are so many vectors into what leads somebody to being in what to a person with a home looks like a very simple situation.

MaxWhen did you learn the guy's name? I want to know the mechanics of how this works. So you go up to him and you give him money over and over.

MerlinWell, no, it started out as like...

MaxIs it like a slot machine? Like you feed quarters into him and eventually he tells you his name?

AlexNo, he's not a road.

MerlinNo, no, but eventually you feel like it gets hot and it's your time. And there's going to be a payout is I think the way it works. And then I get, you know, and also, you know, it's a little bit rigged because they know when I'm close to spending more because I feel like I'm due. No, it started out as like he was a local guy in the neighborhood who's very recognizable. and I suspect I have not treated him personally but I suspect that he has pretty severe schizophrenia

MaxAre you allowed to

Merlindiagnose that? I haven't treated him personally That's the ethics of this according to my group, podcasters and he was mostly kind of this that was mainly his thing he was that guy and he's obviously not in a good way he frequently had wounds all over him Like he clearly got like into altercations a lot and just kind of like slept in something with his shoes next to him all the time. And at a certain point, things escalated and he became much more aggressive and loud and violent.

And basically anytime my infant daughter and I were walking down the street, I would be very scared. We had lots of confrontations. And it was kind of, you know, it sucked. It sucked for everybody. Fast forward. At some point, I think he got swept up and maybe medicated. Something happened.

And it became sweetly heartbreaking to talk to him because he was super copious and very smart and could have probably been like an associate professor somewhere. And he seemed really fine and nice and smart. And you could have a conversation with him. And that's when we introduced ourselves to each other during this period of lucidity that lasted for some period of weeks. And I got to know him. And then I would occasionally, you know, give him a few bucks. And then when I'd see him, I'd give him a few bucks. and even though he has very who talked to who first well at a certain point it became clear that he was less out of control for lack of a better word and i said you know there's no reason

for me to be such a dick like i i've known for 20 years that when you talk to somebody who's having a problem like that it's not that they're a bad person that's a mental thing and i thought you know quit being such a dick and model well for your kid like be decent to people even if you don't have to be and um because i'm a hero uh so you went up to him and you said hi my name is merlin hello you probably are familiar with my program yes you probably know me from mac break

Maxweekly or inbox zero i didn't talk new zealand i mean seriously what's your what's your what's

Alexyour line i mean how do you cranking cranking is a very popular person max what is this i'm i was

Maxi wrote it down in my little notes because merlin casually mentioned that he adopted a homeless guy in San Francisco. And I was like, how do you start talking to a homeless guy?

MerlinYou're not letting me get to the heartbreaking part, which is like, then it went back to the way it was. And that's kind of where it is now. But he's still like nice to me mostly, unless he's in like mid freak out, like freak out as in getting thrown off the train. Cause yeah, you see the same people on the train. You see him on the street anyway. And so the idea is when I see him, I always say, Hey Larry. And I hand him a bill and we keep walking. And he says, thanks. And mostly, and that's just the thing we do. Are you asking how to decide who to pick?

MaxWell, that's an interesting question of how do you pick a good one. Everybody likes the little ones. The ones in their 60s with a big push of beer. We have the homeless guys. So our local homeless guys are the guys under the North Avenue Bridge and the Cortland Bridge and the Armitage Bridge. And I pass them all the time, and we always bring them extra food if we have events or any sort of stuff at the office. Those are our guys we bring food to. like I've given them a few bucks like I walk by them like almost every day but what I'm trying

to figure out is like when's the like I've never had a conversation I've never stopped and had a conversation you know you're like how do you what's the icebreaker there like do you go up to them and like do you have like like I'm just I'm like fascinated by well how do you start this conversation I mean literally do you go up and be like hi my name is uh my name is Max what's what's your deal do you have a do you have a moving backstory no I think you need a you need

Merlina simple gesture in three words here you go and you keep walking but yet you befriended this guy he doesn't need he doesn't need to thank me he doesn't need to know who i am that it's just that

Maxmaybe his life will suck less for 20 minutes no no that's not what i'm asking but you did have you did have a conversation with this guy i had lots of conversations yeah but i mean what i'm asking is how do you how do you transition from giving him a couple dollars and walking by somehow you must someone must have said something that's okay i think i see your point i take your

Merlinpoint um well uh and i don't think this is purely a san francisco thing is like if you walk the same corridor let's say it's on a commute or something especially like you come out of the bart station you know there will be certain folks who tend to be in certain areas and you will see them over and over in a kind of groundhog day type situation where eventually like you feel like you kind of get to know maybe it's that person's moods maybe it's knowing when to avoid them because they're being a little bit uh you know erratic but like you get to know those people whether you want to or not the same way you would get to know a barista or, you know.

MaxYeah.

MerlinOr that kind of thing. Yep. Yeah. So it's that proximity and frequency where eventually it seems kind of silly not to at least say hello. They're just another person that lives in your neighborhood. They just happen to be living in front of the ATM.

MaxSo one day you were just like, the stars are aligned, like everyone's in a good mood here.

MerlinI hadn't thought it through. I mean, it wasn't something I didn't have a plan for. And I don't mean, again, I'm kind of, I'm not trying to make this out to be like a big thing. and a lot of people are going to criticize this. A lot of people are going to say the worst thing that you can do for somebody on the streets.

AlexThere's a culture of folks. Huge movement. Yeah.

MerlinHuge movement for this.

AlexYeah.

MaxOf saying don't talk to homeless people?

AlexYeah, don't give them money. Well, definitely don't give them money. Don't give them. Oh, go fuck yourselves. Yeah, I agree. I feel the same way.

MerlinWho gives a shit? Who cares?

AlexSo many.

MerlinYeah, like, you know, you go work on fixing the big problem, and meanwhile, like, maybe this person, like, gets a quart of liquor, and they feel better for a minute. Oh, my God.

MaxI guess I have heard this because sometimes like a cab driver, we have guys. Do you guys have guys that go on the highway exits and sort of walk up and down? Yeah.

MerlinLike have a sign or something?

MaxYeah, yeah. So we get tons of those guys. And a lot of times if I'm taking like a Lyft home or whatever, the driver will like turn to me and say, you know, those guys make 60 grand a year. Or, you know, they always have some sort of.

AlexOh, those panhandlers, they don't actually. They're just grifters.

MaxOh, or another one will say, you know, that guy's not really homeless because his like clothes are too clean or something like that. it's like who gives a shit like whose hobby is that like standing on the side of the highway and like asking for dollars like just give them give them a buck like something you must need it

Alexif you're standing there and asking people for it in chicago the biggest homeless population is actually in lakeview and it is a case where you would not notice that all of these because of the brunch options uh dude it's so true like i i do have uh everyone pat me on the back i have a lot of homeless friends who just happen to be like they they are queer they have a mental illness and Hey, we have that in common.

MaxLike you're friends with them like on Twitter?

AlexYeah. Well, we would meet outside of concerts and they would be like they would stay afterwards and you can hear the band from outside. And eventually you just it just comes up in conversation. And I don't know. I did not adopt them. And then we talk about how shitty Twitter has become. or they're like, yeah, Grindr really sucks these days. And it's, I don't know.

MaxJust warm up a can of beans over a trash can fire and talk about sexual harassment allegations. Oh, boy. Cut that out, Alex.

Speaker AOh, God. I can't be edited.

MerlinJazz break.

Speaker AThis is the greatest thing we've ever done.

MaxFollow-up, The Washington Post. Seeking to prove that a conspiracy of astronauts fabricated the shape of the Earth, a California man intends to launch himself 1,800 feet high on Saturday in a rocket that he built from scrap metal. Assuming the 500-mile-per-hour, mile-long flight through the Mojave Desert does not kill him, Mike Hughes told the Associated Press his journey into the Atmos flat will mark... No, come on now. I'm actually reading this article for the first time, and I cannot believe he calls it the Atmos Flat.

Oh, my God. Assuming that his 500-mile-per-hour journey does not kill him, Mike Hughes told the Associated Press his journey into the Atmos Flat will mark the first phase of his ambitious Flat Earth space program. Hughes' ultimate goal is a subsequent launch that puts him miles above the Earth where the 61-year-old limousine driver hopes to photograph proof of the disk we all live on. Quote, it'll shut the door on this ball Earth, Hughes said in a fundraising interview with a flat Earth group for Saturday's flight.

Theories discussed during the interview include NASA being controlled by round Earth Freemasons and Elon Musk making fake rockets and blimps.

AlexI was just going to say, if the Earth was flat, Elon's job would be a lot easier.

MaxHughes promised the flat Earth community that he would expose the conspiracy with his steam-powered rocket, which will launch from a heavily modified mobile home. This can't be real.

Alexthis is like the Colonel Sanders tent

Merlinthis just doesn't seem real

Alexquick question for all of our live listeners now where can they find this article Washington Post Washington oh my god

Maxthough he acknowledged he still has a lot much to learn about rocket science quote this whole tech thing he said in a June interview I'm really behind the eight ball

Merlinthis is this is the thing you've heard that term uh cafeteria catholic which is somebody that chooses in a given religious tradition they'll decide to honor certain traditions and not others i think he's a cafeteria scientist and i said good on him like he doesn't want all the science he doesn't want the stuff about the shape of the earth but but he will take just enough to get a 500 mile per hour scrap metal rocket strapped onto a mobile home hakuna matata that said hughes isn't

Maxtotally an unproven engineer. He set a Guinness World Record in 2002 for a limousine jump, according to Ars Technica, and has been building rockets for years, albeit with mixed results. Quote, okay, Waldo, three, two, one, someone yells in a test fire video from 2012. There's a brief hiss of boiling water, and then nothing. So Hughes walks up to the engine and pokes it with a stick, at which point a thick cloud of steam belches out towards the camera. He built his first manned rocket in 2014, the Associated Press reported, and managed to fly a quarter mile over Winkleman, Arizona.

As seen in a YouTube video, the flight ended with Hughes being dragged, moaning from the remains of the rocket. The injuries he suffered put him in a walker for two weeks, he said.

MerlinYou're going to feel so bad when this guy's a fucking folk hero. Even if he ends up getting a shot of the round earth, what a fucking folk hero.

MaxOh, I can already imagine the Milos Forman film about his life. Oh, God.

AlexFor our live audience, you really need to see the picture of this rocket like it looks like an illegal firework it's really great well it looks like it looks like

Merlina child's drawing of a rocket oh yeah man that's pretty impressive you got it oh it's got it it's

Maxgot a url i mean he's sure i missed that nano lube corp what the hell he's certainly going to

Merlinkill himself doing this corp.com he's gonna take one for now merlin you're making you're making

Maxyou're making fun of me for for not liking the the kfc thing but can you explain what that is

Merlinto our listeners. I don't want to get into this. You guys are, you guys are, you comedy people are so not funny. I just sent you a funny thing because KFC is on a jag nowadays where they're trying to be funny and hip. They keep changing their kernel. They keep offering products that may or may not exist. And there was a thing going around that is probably almost certainly fake, which is that you can get a Colonel Sanders Faraday cage for $10,000 to sit in where you can't get wifi. And it looks like the Colonel is humping a tent that you're sitting inside of. And I just thought it was silly and fun. And you guys went, the reason I don't like it. So

MaxSo it is kudos to them for actually building the thing and selling it. That's a good. If they are really selling it. Well, I think they are. It's for $10,000.

AlexIf one of us had $10,000, you know, what if, I mean, I'm sure you could return it. I just think it's, I like the way he looks.

MerlinThe question is elongated arms. You guys don't think it's funny that the colonel is gripping an igloo while he fucks it?

MaxSo we come up with like 50 ideas to do every year for Cards Against Humanity. And then we say no to like 48 of them. And this is one of those ideas that would wind up that we would say no to. and let's say we were KFC in this example what does this have to do with chicken it just doesn't connect that's why it's funny we're talking about it it did get people's attention but it's not great comedy

MerlinI apologize for trying to entertain you on the private channel I appreciate that I'll defer from now on on what's funny before I send it what's the angle

Speaker AWe're done.

AlexOh, boy. I just, the problem is, I just kind of like that he's humping it, and I feel like that's not the joke.

MerlinBut look at his terrible long arms and his face. His face, the sigh of resignation that he has to fuck this unlovable igloo again.

MaxWhat does the Faraday cage have to do with fried chicken? Nothing.

Speaker AAh, jazz break. Wait, why am I listening to Merlin? Merlin's out of charge. I'm the jazz keeper. Stop the jazz. Stop the jazz. I'm the jazz girl.

MaxIf they did it as KFC thinks that you should get around the table with your family and turn your phones off and have chicken dinner together. And so we built a Faraday cage.

AlexMax, when you talk about it, the more I like it. I want you to call it.

MaxBecause I'm improving it for them. They didn't say that. I said that.

MerlinI need some punch up. The colonel needs some punch up. They didn't say that. I said that. That's my idea. You're making it worse.

AlexMax, call them on their bluff. Do it. Do it. And buy it. Buy it. Do it right now.

MaxIt's expensive. Live show. Live show. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Okay, can I complain about something about our audience? We can't stop. Well, no. I have two complaints and then I have a nice thing to say. Number one. Number one. Okay, number one. Last week I specifically was telling a story about Instagram, and I specifically said don't request to follow me on my private Instagram because I have to go in and clear out. I have to go in and take out all the trash. Every time I log in, there's 50 friend requests from, I assume it's the only place to talk about this,

so I assume it's from Dubai Friday, and there's people who request to follow me. Stop doing that. Don't request to follow me. You're not getting in. I can see who requests to follow me. If I don't know you in real life, you're not getting in. That's number one. I'm not Barbra Streisand. I'm not Barbra Streisand. Stop. Stop. What's the frequency, Kenneth? So number two about our audience. What's... Uh... Uh... Uh... Uh... What were we just talking about? Uh... Don't worry. You're talking about how you can't listen to the show anymore because we're so mean. So I said, I made a joke.

I did a bit several episodes ago where I talked about having a Juicero and then a backup Juicero. And then I was really sad when they went away because I couldn't get my pulp packs anymore. Remember that? My bit? That's so, yeah. There was like a while back on Twitter, someone like Anil Dash or someone was like, can I talk to someone who bought a Juicero for an interview or something? And 500 people started tweeting like, oh, Max has one. So I think people didn't realize that that was a bit, and they think that I own two Juiceros.

AlexI did not know it was a bit either. You assumed I own two Juiceros?

MaxAnil thinks you're being ageist, just so you know.

AlexYou have a home. You need one for the upstairs in the morning.

MaxI obviously do not own a Juicero. I do own a commercial smoker. I do not and I do not own and I do not but I smoke meats that's a hobby of mine and and I and I and I do not own a KFC Faraday cage

Alexare there any other questions

MerlinI saw them open for neutral milk hotel you ever seen KFC Faraday cage two three four

Maxnow the good thing about our audience I met a lot of Cox's Cox came up to me and say hi at Pax Unplugged and everyone was very nice and cool about it They came up to me and they're like, hey, I like the podcast. And then I said, thank you for listening. And then they left. And then one person I went out and had lunch with and he was very nice. But don't expect it.

AlexI feel like a lot of people don't listen to this show because they're like, hey, can we meet up for her at PAX? I'm like, I'm not there. I'm not there. Now you're all making because I was very excited to not go to PAX.

MaxAlex, people hear what they want. They think I have two juiceros. They think I have a juicero and a backup juicero. Can't get your pulp pack.

MerlinWell, I can't get them anymore. I know they don't make them anymore. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? That's the whole point. You need the pulp pack. The juicer's useless without a pulp.

AlexOh, the juice pack wouldn't work in the KFC tent, right? Because you need an internet connection.

MerlinOh, shit, dog. It's got to have a Wi-Fi signal. You'd be juiceless in a tent.

AlexOh, no.

MerlinYou'd just be eating chicken like an animal.

AlexMy internet lady friend wouldn't work in there. This is just a disaster.

MaxWhen I was going to PAX Unplugged, I went through O'Hare. I went through security, and I was wearing the hoodie that Jen got me, My City, My Hood, My Block. and the guy asked me if I was a Latin king, the TSA agent who, I got a pat down. I got a pat down and then the TSA agent asked me, hey man, you a king? And I was like, what? And he's like, are you a Latin king? And I was like, and I-

AlexNo, I support a small journalist outlet.

MaxYou know, here's the first, number one, number one, I regard TSA agents as law enforcement officers. I don't actually know where they are. They're somewhere on the spectrum of mall cop to actual cop. No. I think they can get you, I think they can call the police. Like I think they can actually get you in trouble. I can call the police.

MerlinThey're not doing like a citizen's arrest. They might as well be police because they know who to call to get you arrested.

MaxI think they have. Right. And plus, I want to make my flight, so I'm not trying to get in trouble. So typically when a TSA agent talks to me, I don't respond, which is the correct thing to do with any law enforcement unless you have a lawyer there. Don't say anything. Just say, you know, you can ask if you're free to go. Am I being detained? Like those kind of things. But like don't ever talk to law enforcement. Nothing good can come of it. All they can ever do is like entrap you and charge you with making false statements and take things out of context. It's never helpful. never talk to law enforcement for any reason but when the TSA agent starts talking to me I just ignore it

and then I wait for them to tell me I can leave and then I go get my bags and I recognize that I'm being kind of a dick to them but they're like a cop and I'm trying to not be detained by them so the guy starts talking to me and he's like and he goes hey man you a king and he's like patting me down and I just ignored it because I didn't understand what the fuck he was talking to me about and then he goes I asked you a question he goes you a king and I was like and I was like excuse me and he goes a latin king are you a latin king and i said no and then and then and then he was like and he's made some comment of like oh you're no fun or something like that and you know what it's not

Merlinmy job to be fun for you yeah i'd say some of some of the even setting aside getting your nads grabbed the attitude of tsa pat down people i i realize it's not a very fun job and they're not the brightest bulbs in the in the cupboard but like some of the creepiest shit that i have personally experienced as a privileged white man has come from TSA guys. And to some extent, the women, but mainly the guys, is that they really, they got a serious Napoleon complex on. And they love

leveraging that fact that they know that it's a fraud experience. It's stressful to travel, and it's really stressful to go through security, because, not least because, like, if you knew that you were going to get cavity searched, like, you would plan accordingly. But it's the random dice elsewhere aspect of not knowing what you can expect where everything seems fine but you just might end up and i've ended up in a cubicle a couple times for reasons just because there's something on my back left pocket that they can't explain and they're not happy with how the smudge test turned out and that the thing is i got two i got i got a wife and a daughter who did go

through security and like my first thought is like i just i need to get the fuck out of here and just play ball and so i act i act like these high school uh dropouts are somebody that i should accord great amounts i'm sorry that was unkind but a lot of them are are dumb as a bag of hammers and all they know they act like basically like alex's drew goon friend in clockwork orange like the guy who eventually becomes a cop and arrests alex that's who tsa is edit in edit in his name

Alexlater so i sound smart the problem is there's two types of tsa agents one i respect completely and they know that this is theater.

Speaker AIt wasn't that funny. That's a really good image. Yeah, because it's just like his friend Dim.

MerlinGeorgie and Dim. Fine, you get one.

Speaker AYou get one.

MerlinYou won. You won. You got one.

Speaker BWally, wally, wally, wally, wally, wally. Very well.

AlexAnd we're back. Here's something weird, though. Max, have you noticed in O'Hare, they well I guess not because you were just traveling um they got a ton of bad press for like how long the lines were and I went for TSA yeah and I went and it was almost I've never done pre-check I know I know I'm stumped dumb I'll do pre-check eventually it's just a pain and I went and they were like don't take off your shoes don't take off your shoes don't hang anything out of your bag and it was it was as if I was traveling when I was three years old and it was very strange and no one knew what to do the one thing you had to do is take off your belt like

you had to do in the 1990s and then everyone's like yelling at me because I didn't take off my belt and my watch but normally I just go through the scary machine and then it's done and then they look at all of the microphones and my batteries that look like I have a bomb and I'm like I know you're doing your job and they're very frustrated with me but I I don't know there's there's two types of TSA agents ones that know it's political theater and they they act the part and they're like you act your part we'll get this through uh we'll we'll get this done as quickly as possible and then there's Max's guy who he's like yeah

I have this badge that

Maxmeans something. I think he might have been goofing off for a lady TSA agent.

AlexHe was trying to show off his valor for very attractive TSA ladies.

MaxI think he was just trying to be goofy. I think he was just trying to be goofy but I didn't like it. Can I dug a dug a?

AlexDig the dug.

MerlinDateline. ABC News. Dateline. Dateline. November 9, 2017. TSA fails most tests in latest undercover operations at U.S. airports. In recent undercover tests of multiple airport security checkpoints by the Department of Homeland Security, thank you for your service, inspectors said screeners, their equipment, or their procedures, failed more than half the time, according to a source familiar with the classified report. When ABC News asked the source if the failure rate was 80%, the response was, quote, you are in the ballpark. That's a nice feeling.

That's a nice feeling. With all the butt touching and the pocket concerns. That's what you're looking at. Some people are estimating it's as high as 90% fail rate.

MaxIt's never been safer to fly, but yet it has nothing to do with security.

AlexIt has to do with the fancier good planes that don't crash as often.

MaxWell, it's the planes, and it's also the social role of the passenger changed after 9-11. mm-hmm that's why there's that's fewer hijackings and things i think it's the air marshals well i don't know even i honestly don't even know if the air marshal program is still as robust as it once was but that you know they have there's also things like reinforced cockpit doors and like they just made some like that that actually is a good piece of security i think um because if it's

Merlinit solves the actual problem which is stop somebody from doing something to the plane right so i mean like not to go on my fucking hobby horse here but on the one hand i'm getting people sticking their finger up my ass while I'm watching some guy roll through a 200-gallon dumpster on wheels and just waves at the guy. And you're like, you know what? If I wanted to wreak a little bit of havoc at an airport, I would look for somebody who's making $27,000 a year pushing a dumpster and offer them, I would cross their palm to be involved in a little bit of a plot. That's what I would do. I wouldn't be doing it through a passenger.

I'd do it through somebody who works there. And it's bananas how people just waltz through there. It's like, you know, it's like Thoreau says about the spider web, like catches all the tiny flies, but the wasp just pass right through. It's crazy. It drives me fucking bananas. Like at least fake it. At least have a separate useless entrance that those people walk through. You know, like don't. It's just. And they're waving through all the people. Oh, look at me. I got a roller bag and a hat. So I'm definitely I'm definitely an air steward. Let me through. Bye. Have a good flight.

AlexI'm glad that we can offer all of this.

MerlinMr. Man, what kind of shampoo do you use? We have concerns that you might be using a shampoo with polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons that might be causing your back left pocket to trigger the device. Could you please come into this? No, no, no. Your family should stay nearby because we're not sure where this is going to go. Hey, Lou, come on through. Fuck me gently.

AlexWe're making families traveling this weekend feel so great. Thanks, live audience. Thanks, people. Let's see you this later. Thank you.

MaxYou know what else is crazy is like the way that they decide who to randomly screen at the airport on your ticket is determined by like the same algorithms that they use. They like ingest all this information from like social media and like credit reports and all the, you know, wherever the NSA gets data from, which is everywhere. Really? Oh, yes.

AlexI'm going to call bullshit on this. I don't think that's a thing anymore.

MaxOh, yes, it is. I have friends who make it under the no fly list. Let me tell you a story about my pal Harper. So my pal Harper recently went to renew his global entry visa. And so this story starts – well, so he went to renew his – so let me – what's the best way to tell this story? So my friend Harper went to order a piece of luggage on Amazon. And the luggage never showed up. So after a month, he called – he contacted Amazon and said the luggage never showed up and they refunded him. And he was just like, fine, I'll go to the store and buy a different piece of luggage.

Then he went to the airport to go renew his global entry visa, and he got denied because they said that he had tried to import a counterfeit piece of luggage. What?

MerlinCounterfeit luggage?

MaxSo this isn't like a – So what happened was he ordered a piece of luggage on Amazon. Amazon is – I hope our listeners know this. Sit down if this is news to you. Amazon is riddled with counterfeit goods. So even if you buy from the seller, even if you buy from the seller, there's a chance you'll just get a counterfeit good that's mixed in there.

AlexI hope you have your fainting couch ready.

MaxAnd he was shipped a counterfeit bag, and it was held at customs. It got him flagged. Right. Wow. And now they use all kinds of information based on your credit report, Facebook. Like I said, I don't know, driver's history. Like, you guys have no idea. I feel like most people don't truly grasp how much money, how much information there is out there. Like, I could go on, and in 10 minutes, I could know every charity that you've ever given money to, every political candidate that you've given money to.

Like, if you've ever, like, given money to causes, you can go, like, look into the causes and see if they're controversial. Like, it's unbelievable. That stuff is all just in databases if you know where to go search for it, usually for free. and I don't even have what the government has which is like they intercept massive amounts of internet traffic so the lesson is don't buy luggage that's the main takeaway

Alexwant to tell us something about Nancy I'm no Dan Benjamin tell me about that suitcase me?

Merlinoh you guys know Fracture

AlexI didn't deserve that one I'm sorry

Speaker AI just I always want to get a slow one in there

AlexMerlin I'm really disappointed Because I always edit out your Your uh these your LaCroix Noises and you're not making them I want the real authentic live Experience are you not enjoying a LaCroix Right now

MerlinWow there's just so many problems with that statement First of all, thank you for shaming me with that completely unnecessary thing. Number two, America, I don't drink LaCroix. I drink Canada Dry. Canada Dry is a vastly superior sparkling water.

AlexWhoa, I didn't even know what he made.

MerlinTry it. Do a side-by-side. You. Wow. I like Canada Dry.

MaxCanada Dry has a better bubble texture.

MerlinInteresting. Well, it's also got a better taste. It's got a slightly more, almost all sparkling water seltzer that you get in cans. It doesn't taste like anything. Canada Dry, sour is too strong a word, but it's got a little bit of a something to it that makes it like a regular drink. It's really, it's better. Try it. Try it today. Go. Do it. Amazon Prime yourself some Canada Dry. Do a side-by-side with any other sparkling water in Canada Dry. I'm telling you.

Speaker AI wonder if I can do that.

MerlinNow, the thing is, you might have weird Chicago water, so I don't know.

MaxDo you guys ever have the Klarbrun? What? Klarbrun. It's like the Kroger's, I think, brand of, or it's like some grocery store chain's brand of like house brand. It's like the nice brand of seltzer water, but it's Veronica and I's favorite.

Klarbrun.

AlexIs it K or C?

MaxK-L-A-R-B-R-U-N. Klarbrun. It's our favorite one. It's got a good flavor, a good bubble texture. It looks like a diet drink.

Klarbrun. It's just a good-ass seltzer.

Alexhmm this seems this seems so fake this oh vita ice oh they've got a little owl ah oh no this is

Maxnot okay we've this is this is going off the rails uh merlin what was the challenge this week you don't get a break do you no no you don't get a break you didn't you didn't funny there

Speaker Aoh wait i have been i have important follow-up oh my god i completely forgot about this okay

Maxi got a mystery package at the office the other day in a in a craft brown paper box and i was like what is this i don't think i ordered anything and i and i open it up and and it was one of those like tear to open things and as i'm opening it i see in there some little like like um that little like vacuum formed like shrink wrap like stuff like how apple mails you stuff and i was like i didn't order anything from apple and i open it up and what is in there what is in there but a was it a treat but did you get a treat but no but a um a usbc a wall charger and a usbc to lightning

cable from a friend of the show at the apple corporation and i got my god i got my treat i got a usb seat a lightning cable which i need for my work i need that for my work you got a treat because you were such a good good boy i gave my spot up in the line and i got and the apple corporation rewarded me with a treat thank you apple oh my god i was very i was very upset that i gave my spot up so that i could because i thought maybe i'd be rewarded with a treat and I didn't get rewarded with a treat. Now I got my treat. Couldn't they have done it a little faster, though, let's be honest?

Finally.

AlexYeah. You kind of got the AirPod of treats. Like, eventually.

MerlinOh, you got, like, the apology mouse. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's fine.

AlexDig Dug. Merlin, it was your challenge this week.

Merlinchallenge this week comes from me and that is to look at max's u.s politics list on twitter and um after getting some context from max on what this thing is and why and how he made it i'm calling it a draft it's not exactly a draft i've spent over a year with this list now we talk about why that is i want you to because i know all three of us plus my wife and other people look at this thing a lot you get a feel for the people on this list who's good on that list and why, who's not so good and why, and be prepared to discuss some things that you have learned

or discovered from the list. I throw to Max. Max, how, why, when did you make this list? How did you decide who's on there and how has it changed over time?

MaxSure. Well, I've had this list for, I've had some variation of this list for as long as I've been on Twitter because it's always been a very useful place for me when, specifically the way that I use it is when there is a breaking story or something that is fast moving news, like, you know, I'm trying to think of an example, but like, like the election, right? Almost every day there was some crazy story or remember like after the inauguration, there were a couple of weeks where almost every night at nine o'clock there was insane news from the Washington Post. There was, there was two news items a day and a protest every weekend. It was bonkers. And I,

when that is happening or when there's a, you know, a shooting or something like that, I like a place where I can follow the, because it's related to my work, not because I think that sane people should read the news this way. I like to follow the political fallout from current events. And so I've made a list for myself of people on the left and the right who are not people that I like, but just the loudest voices. And I have mainstream people and outsiders and Trump people. And I try to just get everyone who's an important person in the political ecosystem.

And I cram them all into this list. and it's pretty intolerable to read, but I do read it all the time. And again, the point is not that I'm reading this to get the news or because I like it. It's because I do think that you can, I think you can sort of get a feeling of like, I think it does give you a little snapshot of what's the discourse like right now? What are the political dynamics among people who care about politics at this exact moment? So that's what the original list was designed to accomplish.

MerlinIt's become—I mean, I have to be honest. I think it was extremely useful for something before the election, which was to try and just keep up with the fire hose of what was going on. But after the election, it's since the election, the year or so since, I think it continues to be really useful as a way to quickly take the temperature on where things are going, not least because, on the one hand, what the media decides to be obsessed with and cover is actually a very interesting story on its own.

but also, candidly, the extent to which this particular group of people, with all respect, can by and large be so ridiculously obsessed and distracted by a tweet about the media for hours to where that becomes the coverage. I understand they're just bullshitting. It's not what they're going to put in The Washington Post necessarily, but it's very interesting to see somebody throw the bone and then hundreds of people go run after it. I look at it constantly, and I don't always feel good about it, But I feel like it's been kind of good for me in ways.

What's your take, Alex?

AlexThis was like video games for me. You playing Clash Royale, that's what this political Twitter list is for me. I thought, I mean, Max, like you said, has modified it a lot since the election. and during the campaign, there was constant, just a barrage of news, and it felt like knowing people's opinions was important at the time, because it felt like, okay,

knowing what Nate Silver thinks, let's see if that 80% is gonna change. I don't know. It was almost comforting at times, because the crazies on there were, like what's his what's his name max bill mitchell like like the crazies got crazier yeah and then

Merlinsomehow you between people like maybe not necessarily that's nate silver but you felt slightly soothed to like say in the face of all the madness that i'm seeing in the news right now there are people who are also kind of i feel it's kind of soothing for them to say like oh no this

Alexis the way things are actually yeah and people would share infographics and polls and be like okay okay the this is madness this is something that i will tell my children about one day but it's going to end so it was almost it was almost like a twitter security blanket uh didn't end up that way and i have tried to avoid it somewhat unsuccessfully since the election because now it it feels like an echo chamber to me and and i know it doesn't to max because he knows these people and

he knows the nuances of like what people are saying and can tell like what is actually going

Speaker Aon. For sure. It's an echo chamber. Yeah. Well, but it more so now that like, I don't know, like,

Alexlike during a shooting or during a protest, actually during the election, it was also kind of like, okay, what streets are going to be closed off because there's going to be a protest and what train should I take? But I don't know. I don't get anything out of it anymore.

And this... I don't... I still don't really understand the challenge. Did you make separate lists, Merlin? Did you

Merlincategorize? Should I put my list... Maybe should I put my list in the document just so you can see how I

Alexdid it? Sure. I will put my list in

Merlinas well. It's gonna be... It's just weird markdown, so I don't know if it'll make sense.

AlexHow do I get the

MaxI'm on my iPad How do I share my Oh my god it's in the text

AlexHow do I send my list to you We have it It's public

MaxNo I have a new list

AlexOh your list for the challenge So you go to your profile And oh which Twitter app are you using

MaxTwitter

AlexThen you swipe to Whatever to get to your profile I will go to lists.

MaxI'm looking at the list.

AlexAnd then I believe there's a share list. False. Or a copy. False. What? If only our live audience could weigh in.

MerlinTippy toe. No, no tippy toe.

AlexDon't call. I'm intrigued. My dad, where's she? She's in the shower. Pool? I don't know how to share it.

MerlinWhat are we trying to do? Merlin, I want to look at your list.

MaxHow do I see your list? It's in the Google Doc, dude. There's a doc?

MerlinOh, my God. It's the second most recent thing in our super secret text channel. And I apologize that it's ugly. Oh, you know what? I'll make it monospace so it's prettier.

AlexWhat is the name of your new list, Max? Oh, 2018?

MerlinYes.

AlexOkay. I'm sharing that now. Oh, interesting.

MerlinOh, this I got to see.

AlexYes. It is in the super secret text channel. Mine as well as Max's new list.

MaxCan you tell us what's different about this one?

Aleximmediately...

MaxI tried to keep it to under 25 people. Yes. Oh, yeah. This is a lot fewer

Alexpeople. And I actually know who

Maxmost of these things are. And I did take Trump's feet off. So this list is designed for public consumption. This is like, if you want to learn more about politics by reading Twitter, follow this

Merlinlist. Some of these are very good.

MaxIt's not as useful to me because I don't get to see... I don't get... Like, I... You're looking for a very

Merlinbrief blast from a fire hose. It's not like you're in that. With the big list, you want to go, something, school shooting happened, boom,

Maxlet's go see what's happening. Right, are we finally going to ban guns or not? And the answer is always no. But no, here's the one way to think about it, right? You guys are both a little bit in the Apple echo chamber, right? Or echo chamber, I mean. And Alex, you're also in the gaming echo chamber a little bit, right? And those Twitter scenes seem fucking insane to someone who's not in them, right? When gaming Twitter was fucking losing its mind over the EA battlefront microtransaction debacle. That was probably the biggest news item that existed for three to four days last week.

Did you hear about this at all, Merlin?

MerlinYeah, yeah, I did. I heard about it, and I heard that people were super duper schmooper mad and that they were making changes as a result.

MaxOh, I'm surprised it even filtered.

MerlinWell, something where it's a treasure box type situation and it was going to cost money, and just the idea of that made people super mad, right?

MaxBut more, I mean. Wasn't it a big Reddit thing? Yes, yeah, more or less. I'm just surprised that filtered out of the gaming echo chamber ecosystem at all. But the same thing is true of Apple, right? I'm trying to think of an example of when Apple.

AlexLike every keynote.

MaxYeah, but keynotes are actual news items. But I'm trying to think of a minor Apple thing of like, wasn't everyone? Oh, the MacBook keyboard gate, right? Keyboard gate. That was like a huge fucking story. And everyone did a blog post. And everyone told their stories. And everyone had a hashtag. And everyone was talking about it. And I guarantee you that no one who is outside of the Apple echo chamber knows what the fuck that means at all. And they still haven't heard about it. And most of them haven't experienced it. The same thing is true of politics. There's all this little insular bullshit. And it's important to me to understand. This is personal.

I'm not. This isn't prescriptive for anyone else. I just want to understand what the fuck everyone is talking about. So it's like you kind of have to follow the scene and read all these.

MerlinYou say as much sometimes. You frequently say, what am I looking at here?

MaxYeah.

AlexYeah. I actually, I started building this list and I tried to make it like a net neutrality type thing. Like I almost wish Twitter was better at sharing like temporary lists, you know. Like, okay, here is a group of people who you can follow that actually know what they're talking about, can give you concrete actions to take and stuff like that. But really, I'm just looking at the EFF Twitters every few hours. I mean, like, Corey Doctorow, tell me what to do.

MerlinMerlin? Well, I'm going to be a ray of sunshine and say that, like, oh, so, yeah, I had an opening statement. I was just going to say, so you can see in the Google Doc, my giant list of the goods and the not-so-goods, and here's my general observation, which I typed this morning, that if you're somebody who is looking at this fairly often, there is, as you would expect, a lot of duplicate content. but what I realized is and this is I guess kind of obvious but you gravitate given the amount of duplicate content or just repetitive content

you really gravitate toward people whose style and point of view appeal to you whether or not you 100% agree with them everybody's got the same water and you start looking at whose glass you like I think because part of it is if you're going to look at this a lot you gravitate toward the people some of these people I've actually started following on regular Twitter because I actually really genuinely like them And then conversely, the other side of that is that at those times also, it doesn't take too long. This was kind of the point of the challenge. And I don't want this to be mean and be bagging on strangers. But there's some people on this fucking list I want to fire into the sun from a Twitter standpoint where I've actually got people I would never in a million years block because I'm not a big blocker.

But like I had to block them because I couldn't see their words anymore. It was driving me nuts. people who I nominally agree with, political allies, where I'm just like, I just need to never hear your Twitter opinion about this again. Paperclip pals. So I had to go. Here's the downside of this app. Paperclip pals.

Speaker APaperclip.

MerlinI don't know what that means. If you mute somebody, that does not count for a list.

AlexOh, I didn't know that.

MerlinA muted person will still show up on your list, Josh Marshall. and so they you just keep you keep you just keep seeing that armando codes and the people just keep coming up and you just pray chris goddiner that i wouldn't have to see this anymore to hear and david seaman's obama foundation you you just kind of want you know hakuna matata i appreciate your work thank you for your work malcolm nance and i really enjoy garyk sproff and you could some people you think so much of shirley and ifall that you like really like them but you're like you just can't take any more of the three tweets i can't take the yes you oh look what you did you

took a photo of a screen while someone was talking and put it up. And then you did that 16 times in a row. Thank you. Oh, that's definitely a slide

Maxfrom a PowerPoint. One of my favorites is Josh Marshall's Twitter feed where he takes a news article and draw a stick man on it and then repost it.

MerlinOh, God. Oh, it's red now. Thanks, buddy. What is this? A political cartoon? What's going on here? Oh, you got an Apple pencil. That's nice. All of the

Alexscreenshots of... We can't wait to see what he does with it.

Merlinhe's such a repackager you know he's such a repackager I also really like

Maxyou have a category here called the security men and it's got one of my favorite accounts on it which is Jester so I felt like I needed let me tell you the logic of this so I felt like I needed to represent the insane Trump Russia people the total the people who are deeply infected with the Trump Russia brain worms

MerlinIt's like the security version of Louise Mensch. They're always like, it is just around the corner. Here it comes.

MaxGet ready. Next 12 hours. Yeah, they're all of a kind. But Jester was, I found him to be the most palatable. And he does have technical expertise. So he also posts about infosec stuff that's very informed. But you know what's funny about his account is he posts 800 times a day. And 790 of them are like a drama involving him. That's exactly. Almost all of these are like, come at me, bro, kind of things.

Speaker AYeah.

MaxIt's like a way of like – it's because the currency of the realm is attention and faves. It makes people do insane things to get the currency. And it's some sort of deficiency in human psychology that people can't really understand that that currency doesn't – I don't think that it does anything for them. But it certainly – And it fades.

MerlinIt fades so quickly. Right. Your words will always be there, but the neediness to feel good for 10 minutes, that just goes away.

MaxWell, it's like these people just hop leaf from one conflict to another and from dunking on someone or apologizing to something or being outraged about something to the next. And there's never any broader thought of what is the message that I'm putting out there? What is the audience? What's next?

MerlinWhere does this feed into you? How will I find out who was on Reliable Sources tonight? Is there any way that I could go and find out? Or, for example, the morning plum. What was in the morning plum? How am I going to find out?

MaxNow, it's like something that my friend Merlin said, a very smart thing that he said one time, which is nobody remembers on the Internet whether you won or lost an argument. They only remember that you're an asshole that argues on the Internet.

MerlinI think it's kind of true. But, like, everybody picks their brand, and they pick their particular hillock to nearly die on. And, like, that's – okay, we're not talking about the positive things. We're only talking about the niggas. But here's the thing. My lady got on this, too. And so I was telling her I was prepping for this. And you can see, actually, I spent probably more time on this challenge than any other thing that I've done on this show.

MaxOh, did you make an actual list? The Google Doc! But I see the – Jesus Christ! I'm looking at the Google Doc.

Speaker AUse your scroll hand.

MaxI'm looking at it. Where's the link to your list?

Speaker AWhat?

MaxWhere is your list?

MerlinNo, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I went in and I manually created.

MaxNo, I'm staring at it. I'm staring at that. What I'm asking you is, did you make a Twitter list of your people? Why? Why not? I did not.

MerlinWhy would I do that? So I can follow it. Oh, you think that's the challenge? I thought that was the challenge. Oh, gosh, no. I have no interest in doing that. No, I just want to talk about who I like. I want to talk about how I've discovered people that I like a lot. And I want to talk about what was frustrating. No, I can do that, I guess. No, I don't. I don't know who would want that. I do. Okay, all right. I could work on that.

AlexLet's just put it in the show notes and someone will make it for us.

MerlinListen, everyone listening. No, no, no, no, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. I don't want these people's names in typeable searchable forms.

MaxOkay, fair, fair, fair. Yeah, you know that those fucking people Google themselves 50 times a day.

MerlinYou're right, you're right, you're right.

Speaker AListen, here's.

MerlinCan we just stipulate that Farhad is, Farhad, is that how you say it? Yeah. our friend he's he's he's on the funny witty charming list i just want to put him at ease

Maxbecause i know well but i do have some beef also james i do have some beef with far that i want to bring i do have some beef with far that i want to bring up on the podcast i know this is fair because he doesn't have a forum to defend himself but he advocated making tuna salad with no mayonnaise on twitter the other day and i was totally captivated by that because he's history's greatest monster well and he said and but i'm just and i didn't get a reply but what is the binding agent. In order for it to be a salad, it has to have something to hold it together. What holds it together? If there's no mayo, there has to be something

wet in there that holds it together.

AlexNo, it's called a fork. As someone who eats salad without dressing, you just gotta get a good fork.

Speaker ABut that's like crudite. That's not a salad, though. It's a crudite. Oh.

MerlinOkay, so...

MaxYou're just eating fish. You're just eating fish. Don't call it tuna salad. It's just tuna. You're just eating tuna.

MerlinSo my lady does it too, and she has not had the temerity to go and block all the people. So she's getting your Trump's feed in there, which I blocked a million years ago. That's what makes it a fire hose, really, is the, like, don't you think? Part of what makes it really, really heavy is the, tell people what Trump's feed is.

MaxOh, Trump's feed is, it's an account, and they follow every account that Trump follows, and they selectively retweet interesting tweets that come across Trump's feed.

MerlinDid you see last night at 1 a.m., he or Scavino or somebody took the time at 1 a.m. Eastern time last night to change the graphical header on his Twitter page to a picture of him and a phalanx of people in his family standing in front of a turkey, standing behind a turkey. Somebody did that at 1 a.m. last night. Somebody said, I need to go put up the picture with the turkey. And that's a thing they did at 1 a.m. last night.

AlexThat was like something really perplexing because I'm like, I don't think Trump knows how to do this. So I don't either.

MerlinIt's probably Scavino's helper monkey.

AlexYeah. Like he's he's got a boy. Well, he's got Eric. He can just Eric. After this one.

MerlinIt surprised me. And so what's interesting, though, is like there are a bunch of people on there. You know, even though everybody's got the same water, as you'll see on my good list, I would like to call out some people and see if you guys agree, in a good way, call out. But people who I've discovered who I'm like, I'm really glad. Like Ryan Lizza and David Fahrenthold. Like, I'm really glad to have discovered their stuff, mostly from this list. I mean, David Fahrenthold, the stuff that he comes up with is so wackadoo, but he treats it so seriously.

He's almost like somebody in a 90s zine where he's taken something that can seem very unimportant. But he puts it like the Time magazine cover in the clubs. Remember that? that he covered that so well and so thoroughly and put in the legwork and in some ways that's that's some of the most interesting little stories is things like that rather than some i mean certainly i'm glad somebody's out there reading all the reports and all the things and

Maxputting together a summary of that and all that and anyway um well if for anyone listening to this my challenge here i urge you to unsubscribe from my political twitter list which was never really intended for any sort of public consumption whatsoever. And go to my Twitter profile and look at US Politics 2018.

And there you will see an updated list with just people that I sort of endorse you're paying attention to.

AlexMy list contains two things, or two accounts, Maggie Haberman and Trump's Twitter feed. Because that's the kind of, it's really the only thing that I get actual insight.

MerlinShe's had to cut back, though. She got the kibosh from the New York Times. I know. And she's cut way back, and it sucks. It does. I think the New York Times basically said you're no longer allowed as a person who works for the New York Times. You can't be fun. You can't do anything that could appear to make us look partisan. And I miss her tweets because she was so good.

AlexWell, and the reason it's on there is I'm trying to, like, keep a bear. I might as well just honestly follow the New York Times political Twitter or whatever. But seeing Trump's feed is remarkable. It's still just shocking to me. And not even shocking like, oh, I must clutch my pearls. But just the absurdity and the strange things.

MerlinDo you get Bill Mitchell? Is Bill Mitchell on?

AlexNo. No, no, no. I miss Bill Mitchell. Yeah.

MaxI miss the era when I was paying attention to Bill Mitchell because the reason I was paying attention to him was I thought that for sure he would be one of the standout funniest details of an era when we all went insane and Trump was a presidential candidate. Right. And I now find it very depressing and upsetting to think about Bill Mitchell because it turns out that he was more accurate of a prognosticator than almost anyone else in politics. He's the smartest man in U.S. politics.

MerlinYou figure you think that at this point he and Joe Walsh should be the ones that have a vlog, but instead it's Oberman.

MaxLike, it's quite a twist. Just crying on the floor with a wrapping a flag.

MerlinSir, have you no dignity, sir? Can I talk about my good people? Can I just do a quick whistle stop? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Can I send shots? Is that too boring?

MaxNo, I have some new good people to introduce you to.

MerlinHere's some of my good list ones. Daniel Dale, Katie Turr, Dave Weigel, Ben Witteson, Susan Hennessey from Lawfare Blog, Emma Loop, Ben Jacobs, Maggie Haberman, Stephen Dennis, Betsy Kline, Olivia Knutzi, if that's how you pronounce it, and Jennifer Benderie. That's a bunch where I like their style. I enjoy their content a lot of times, but I also like their style, and I feel like those are voices of people that rise above the din by often having something different, unusual fun to say about what's going on. And I have more, but that's my top first few on my list.

MaxOn my new list, I've upgraded and added a bunch of new people that I'm really interested in. So I really like my new representative for the sort of hashtag resistance, like Trump Russia stuff, is my pal Renato. So he's a former U.S. prosecutor. Renato Mariotti is his name. He's running for attorney.

MerlinOh, yeah, I've seen him.

MaxHe does sort of tweet threads, but rather than being like conspiracy mongering, they're actually like legal explainers of like what terms mean and what the risk actually is. If you wanted to follow one person to get accurate, non-obnoxious, non-hyperbolic, but still coverage of the Trump-Russia stuff, follow Renato Mariotti. And he's also a frequent contributor on like MSNBC and CNN and stuff. But he made the list. Elizabeth Jo, who does the podcast What Trump Can Teach Us About Con Law with Roman Mars.

Oh, that's a good show. I just started listening to that. It's really fun. And she's a great lawyer and a good speaker. She's a good communicator. She's very good on Twitter.

AlexI know a lot of conservatives who really enjoy that show because they're like, oh, this makes sense. And I don't know. I just really – it has a different tone than a lot of political podcasts.

MerlinThe one about the Central Park Five and his intervening in cases was, I thought, super interesting.

MaxUm, I put, um, a bunch of new reporters on who are sort of policy. I found like, I added a bunch of people who are sort of like policy beat reporters. So I put some like labor reporters and immigration reporters and stuff like that. So just trying to further like make the list useful to people following the news rather than just political fallout of things. Um, let's see. I have a couple of weird Twitter people in there. My favorite right now is probably Alex Nichols. He tweets as, uh, low and option. He's like the little gremlin guy, and he writes for The Outline and Current Affairs.

Anything he writes is unbelievable and extremely funny. He wrote the piece about unboxing videos. That's one of the funniest things I've ever read. Let's see. I don't think we mentioned her, but Sarah Cliff is the country's preeminent health care reporter. She's unbelievable. She's on the weeds on Vox, but her Twitter is great. trying to see if I yeah it's a good show well we didn't mention him but John Dickerson

Alexoh yeah

Merlinhe's good he's got his two accounts he has his you get to see two sides of John with his accounts which is fun wait a minute on the one account you get the dad jokes on the other one it's a little more serious

Maxwait I think I just have the serious one what's the dad jokes account

Merlinhe mentions it once once a month he mentions that he has two accounts I forget which is which there's like Jay Dickerson and John Dickerson there's one which is his like handsome man photo and there's other one with him as a picture of him as a kid and that's more of his personal stuff and dad jokes. It's a nice compliment to his dad joke Tumblr.

AlexThe dad joke one is in. He's a very good person. Oh, gosh. He made a good notebook. What a guy. My favorite tweet this morning from Trump's feed was this guy just getting mad about trans people. And I'm going to put a photo in our super secret chat. And it's this joke graphic that's been going around. of like half of these genders people do not identify as and they're fake.

And I was like, and it is based off the Pokemon that are called the unknown because they look, they're just nonsense symbols that look like the alphabet. And I'm like, this man is railing against a joke in the queer community. And I'm like, what is happening? And there's so much about, it's not even fake news. it's just jokes that are being taken as fake news. I, man.

MerlinRight.

AlexThe turkey gifs were kind of fun. Like, I expected more, I thought it would be more embarrassing, but.

MerlinI have not avoided that. Funny, witty, charming. Hayley Bird. I think she's a delight, and I like that she likes dogs so much. Christina Reynolds. I'm enjoying her very much. I've started following her as a human being. Dan Zak. Chris Hayes. And I'll tell you what I like about, I like Chris Hayes' program on MSNBC. I also think he does, he walks right up to the line in terms of promotion, but I think he's very good at it. And I like his Twitter account. I like James Fallows. Those are most of mine.

MaxChris Hayes, difficult follow for me. Problematic? I don't know. A lot of times I'm flipping down the tweet and I'm like, who retweeted this bullshit? And a lot of the time it's Chris Hayes.

But he has Zenny on a lot.

Speaker Agod this feed the the did you mean shenny shenny is that how you say her name well you know it's

Merlinlike my friend martin scorchesi i mean i um so what are you sending me here chatty robots

Alexsorry this is just the drudge report complimenting um self-checkout stations that look like robots it's just it's just ridiculous there's um i don't know if you know this but there's this guy merlin man who wrote an essay almost 10 years ago no no no no no okay okay there's this thing that i really like this this can i just let my entire career just die there's let's let's pretend that this actually this was not from you i really like the idea of not just with food but like in life

and i know this is very sit on a cushion and meditate type of thing but there's feeding there's eating and then there's dining and the political twitter list kind of what are the differences

Merlinso i've never heard this feeding feeding is just putting food in your face for sustenance yes and

Alexand sometimes you're sometimes you can't tell the difference between when it's when it is substantive good lord i'll edit that out um and when it is just you thinking that you need it um and eating is when you make a conscious decision about what you put in your body or brain um Whereas dining is like you are truly selecting what you want in either a culinary or-

MerlinIt's more of like an experience.

AlexYeah, in a culinary or intellectual way. So I think of like Twitter as like feeding, like well-written articles as like eating, and then novels that- things that stay with me for more than a week as like dining. and there was a part of an essay of a by a person that I think about still like once a month and it's uh what worries me are the consequences of a diet comprised mostly of fake uh connectedness make make believe insight and unedited first drafts of everything I think it's making us small

I know that whenever I become aware of it I realize how small it can make me so I've come to despise it with the diet metaphor in mind i swear merlin didn't do the feeding that was pretty good i gotta admit that was that was very moving i i yeah very effective i want to if you like start eating better but i also want to start growing a tastier tomato regardless of how easy it is to pick up package ship or vend the tomato is the story and it's like this week i i quit like 10 projects i've been on that just made me sad and unhappy and anxious and you also didn't you

do a culling in overcast oh yeah well that was just a little bit out of it that got a little most of those feeds were uh like dead shows but i was like man there i i do like this show and one other show i do it it's roboism i'm gonna plug it go listen to roboism i care about that show very much i'm trying to make it better and it's a good show and it's getting better um and i well i like i like like savannah's i oh yeah no no savannah's the best person in the world um i like you too, Alex. I'm all right. Sometimes I can fly, fly a drone. All right. Um, but I don't, I,

I don't want to let people down. There are people in this room that I would never want to let down. And there are people like my family and, and Savannah, who's the best person in the world. And I don't know the other projects I, and they don't want to get all inbox zero and back to work, but it really like looking at this Twitter list, I'm like, I am miserable. And again, this is not, this is not to reflect on Max and like this is this is I mean to use to use a phrase by an old

Merlinblogger it's like drinking salt water yeah exactly you think you're quenching your thirst but you're actually making each sip you take is making it worse and worse and worse until you just need more salt water which will never make you happy and it goes on and on and on until you stop drinking salt water that's the only way to stop being thirsty is to quit drinking salt water and it feels counterintuitive until you face that and you go there's no bottom to this this has to end

MaxYeah, I've been giving serious consideration to changing how, I don't want to say leaving Twitter, but dramatically changing how I use Twitter. It's kind of hard not to. Well, for me, it would be very hard for me to do my job without using Twitter at all, without posting to Twitter when we do something or trying to follow up on it. But I do think I spent, I mean, you know, this week I want to tread delicately here, but like I just spent the last couple of weeks and it's like you just go on and you read one depressing news story that just makes you nauseous after another.

And then the only thing that anyone can say is to be more outraged and mad than the person before them. It can only escalate. I know.

MerlinI know. I know exactly. I totally agree.

MaxAnd it's just unattractive.

MerlinIt's just unattractive. It's hard to get through the... I think it's difficult to get through the phase of something that has been bottled up blowing open because it's certainly necessary for that thing to blow up. But I'm not even going to say anything. But it's...

AlexI don't want to make anybody sad. Like, feeding is an okay thing to do. Like, our friend of the show, Marco, wrote what I thought was like a really good blog post about what makes this one laptop great. And it was totally like an insider. It was great. Yeah, and I loved it. And that felt like an eating experience of like this is a really good piece of writing by somebody I respect and had some great insight. But then I just like went on like a Twitter binge of all the people and all their takes.

And that was just me basically funneling Twitter funyuns into my mouth for an hour. And that's, I don't know, that's not bad all the time. You've got to have fun in sometimes.

MerlinIt's funny how in certain situations, being overwhelmed by one thing makes you realize how overwhelmed you are by other things. And I say this hopefully without any judgment. It's just an opinion. But it's kind of like me and iPhone X. I know I'm going to like this. I imagine I'll get one. It would be heretical at this point for me to say that I don't have plans to get one because of how much I'm told by everyone how much I'll love it, which I'm sure I will. But it's also there's something keening and sad about how much people need to let you know how much they like the thing that they bought.

And at a certain point, that becomes very overwhelming. And then the response to that is how much I need to let you know how much I like the thing that I bought. And I don't need that because I don't own a TV. And then that just goes on and on. It just becomes more trying to one-up this other person about what you decided to buy, which I'm not trying to do a late capitalism move here. But like at a certain point that becomes you really you want to catch yourself when you find yourself having an overwhelming number of thoughts about that kind, deciding to make that a thing that you're going to argue about in public.

There's something that's very frankly depressing about that to me, that now you have ceded ownership of this big part of the big green lawn that is your brain to something that is beyond ephemeral, that is beyond trivial, that is beyond unnecessary, and that is beyond needing any grown person to spend any time defending it. And yet we find ourselves drawn into that, and that is what makes you small. It's allowing that to take over your lawn is just about the worst thing you can do as an adult.

AlexThat was some good Merlin Mann stuff. funny funny funny happy things after show are we are we are we doing the after show

Maxwell we got to play the theme music to end the podcast because we're not editing Let me just poke the rocket with a stick here Hang on

AlexOh wait wait wait Hold on What do you call a lesbian with long fingernails?

MaxWhy don't call her anything Because that joke structure is problematic

AlexGod damn it Single I'm sorry

Speaker Ano edits baby all right now we've made this oh because because of finger banging

Alexyeah yeah yep that that's i thought it was i thought it was an aesthetic thing but you're

Merlintalking about finger i am talking about the gay sex

AlexThank you.

Show notes

Transcript

52. Jazz Girl

Show notes

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