37. Hand Taint

AlexThis is Do By Friday, normally a weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, me, Alex Cox, and Max Temkin. However, this week it is me, Max Temkin, Trin Garitano, Zoe Quinn, and Joshua, our IT OPSEC guy. And this week's challenge is get an NFC chip inserted.

Maybe. We'll see.

MaxWe are indeed recording. What is the incident that's transpired with the peach?

Speaker ASo I got like garbage guts, I guess is basically the correct medical term. So I usually can't like eat. like I can't order out and stuff like that without it being a huge pain in the ass. So I usually like put a piece of fruit in my bag for, you know, when I go to the coworking space and stuff to work on stuff. Um, cause it's like, Oh yeah, I'm an idiot and I'll probably forget to eat. But if I try to make this as easy as possible for me to not fuck up, then you know, cool. Um, and I managed to fuck it up, uh, somehow.

Um, I had this peach that was like right on the edge of like, maybe not being something a human should consume. I'm like, okay. I'll just throw this in my bag and I'll, I'll eat it today and it'll be great. And then I'll not find out in like 12 hours of coding that 12 hours have gone by and suddenly my head feels weird. And, Oh, I, you didn't eat. Oh no. So what's the,

Maxwhat's the damage that the peach caused?

Speaker ASo it's, that was Monday.

MaxOkay.

Speaker AAnd I completely forgot about it because what a saga. This is intense. It's been five days of this thing. fermenting I think is the term at this point anymore there was no more peach

Maxthat's actually that's at that point I think your your backpack is becoming a

Speaker Asmall batch artisanal cocktail yeah basically I think I basically made

Maxmoonshine I so two thoughts on the on the peach situation number one I had this happen in college I had an onion in the car in the trunk of my car and I left it in there over winter break and when i came back i more or less had to sell the car because no one could get into the car without like without like gagging like it was on it was untenable um number two so i sympathize with with your peach plate number two we have a specialty do you guys go

to stanley's do you guys fuck with stanley's because we have a specialty grocery store that and their whole deal is that they sell fruit that if you don't it's like basically like on the verge of catastrophe.

Speaker AOh, God. That gives me anxiety just hearing about.

MaxBut it's cheap. It's amazingly cheap. So you can go, I mean, it's good if you get fruit for like that day. Yeah.

Speaker AYes. I mean, I guess that's got to be great for smoothie people. And in theory, I would totally be a smoothie person, but I made one and then had to clean the blender out after and I'm like, I'm never realistically there.

MaxOh, I'm a new smoothie person. All right. All right. I have to, let me introduce everyone and then I want to hear about the smoothie tech.

AlexTrin, I know I said you could play Civ and that you should keep the noise on for ambiance,

Maxbut it sounds like that is what we're hearing.

Speaker AAnd I can't.

MaxI can't do it anymore. Trin's going full max. She's playing a video game during the podcast.

AlexThis is the most max thing that has ever happened in the studio.

Speaker BHere's the thing, guys. Here's the thing. I am like straight up fucking Teddy Roosevelt right now. And I really don't want to stop. So like, I'll turn it down a little.

MaxAll right. Let me introduce everyone. Joining us on Dubai Friday this week, we have my dear friend Zoe Quinn and my friend and Cards Against Humanity events manager Trin Garitano.

Speaker BHello.

MaxThey will be advising us. It's going to be a weird episode because we do sort of have a nominal challenge, but we haven't done it because we're too scared. I would say it's probably the first challenge for Dubai Friday where we might die if we do it wrong. So we have some experts to help us sort things out this week.

Speaker AExperts in dying.

MaxWell, no, not dying. Not dying would be the desired end state. That's where we want to go to.

AlexWe should also mention Merlin isn't here because we haven't acknowledged that. But we can't acknowledge why he isn't here. So the end.

MaxWell, I don't want to compromise his op-sec. No. Because you say where you are on a podcast one time, you get a fat hockey goalie in your house. The whole system falls apart. All right. What's the smoothie? Okay. Question. What's the smoothie tech that you have? And then I have prepared a memo for this episode on the size and shape of women's brains. So I will be presenting that to our audience. Great.

Speaker BThank you.

MaxYeah. I know everyone's excited about my thoughts on that.

Speaker BI'm excited for the counterpoint to everything I'm going to say today. Yeah. Of course. I just got a cheap blender on Amazon because I was tired of cooking. So I decided to make everything into mush and drink it. And that's really the extent of my smoothie. Yeah.

MaxWe have, this is my cat's diet. She eats one can of mush for every meal.

Speaker BI'm on like two cans of mush.

MaxYeah. This is, I mean, you've invented Soylent for yourself.

Speaker BOh, you mean Slim Fast? Yeah, sure.

MaxWait, are you saying Soylent, are you saying it's like Coke Zero? It's like Slim Fast for men?

Speaker BIt's like men reinventing something that women discovered 40 years ago? Yes, it is. I agree.

MaxHave you guys ever been on the Soylent subreddit, slash r slash Soylent?

Speaker BNo.

MaxIt's very good. It's all people asking questions about, is it normal to have this much diarrhea?

Speaker BOh, God.

MaxOh, okay. I have new mush tech to share. So, Veronica, have you guys seen the video of the cats that ring the bell and then they get a little treat and the guy feeds them from the hand? So, we want our cat to do this. So we're like, it would be very cute if she rang a little bell when she wanted food. So Veronica purchased on Amazon a bell, and we have it next to the food. And we've only had it for a few days. But basically what I do is I'll put out a new can of mush for her on her little cat plate that we have. And then she approaches the dish, and before she eats, I get the bell, and I give it one ring.

And then she sort of startles because she's not expecting a bell. My theory is we do this for a couple months, and then eventually she associates the bell with the food, and then maybe we'll start teaching her how to put her little paw on the bell.

Speaker BThat's so cute. Oh, please do this.

MaxYes. Isn't that great?

Speaker BOh, my God. Janeway is already a perfect luxury cat. If you could actually teach her tricks and stuff, that's even better.

MaxWe went to the vet because she has feline acne on her chin.

Speaker BOh, Dargo had that.

MaxYeah, and now I have to wipe her chin with a special wipe.

Speaker BSalicyclic acid wipe, yes. Yes, yes.

MaxShe does not like it. Do you have any advice for me on how to do this so that my cat doesn't hate me?

Speaker BI actually do. So I have a cat, Dargo, also known as Boogers. And the reason he's called Boogers is because he has seasonal allergies, and they make him very disgusting. And it turns out that we have the same seasonal allergies. So we booger at the exact same time. So now I keep – I got a giant –

MaxHave you considered that you're allergic to each other?

Speaker BWe have considered this.

MaxDon't care. The gift of the Magi situation.

Speaker BSo he recently let me start kissing his furry belly, so I can't care. That's a gift from the gods. So I got a giant box of baby wipes from Costco, and I have a little packet of baby wipes in every room. So any time he gets too comfortable, I attack with a wipe. He's beginning to fear and distrust me, but honestly, totally fucking worth it.

MaxAnd you shit his chin?

Speaker BNo, because he boogers everywhere. So he had chin acne, boogers coming out of the eyes, boogers coming out of the nose, and one time he had a yeast infection in each ear.

MaxOh, my cat. Yeah, she's got that. I have the little ear drops.

Speaker BIt's nasty. Cats are gross. They're way grosser than you think they are.

MaxI don't understand how this is even occurring because she lives in our clean house. She's not like an outdoor cat. There's no other animals. I don't understand this.

AlexBecause your cat is beautiful and was bred to be beautiful, and the prettiest cats have the worst problems.

MaxThey found her at a racetrack. and she was pregnant yeah and she was pregnant

Alexand she has acne you're sure your cat isn't just a your teenage daughter that you've mistaken as a furry oh no my cat has a yeast infection

Maxshe watches a lot of slime videos on YouTube Zoe do your cats

Speaker Ahave any uh bizarre medical ailments no well no that's not true um my older cat i found out has herpes oh yeah that's a thing yeah i had no idea she just had an eye that was freaking out and i was like oh god an eye problem that can like be so bad if it turns out to be any number of things that cause eye problems in cats so like i drove her to the animal emergency hospital at like three in the morning freaked out um and they took her back for like two hours and came out and they're

like I'm sorry it's gonna be like another hour and I'm like oh shit can you tell me anything and they're like no I'm sorry we just as a policy we can't do that at this time I'm like fuck okay and then they come out and it's like the sun is starting to come up at this point and they're just like yeah so your cat has feline herpes I'm like oh um feline herpes though right like i don't have to be like i don't have to worry about her having unfortunate teen problems like it's just no it's it gets transmitted through saliva like

everything bad with cats for some reason like i know uh feline a uh immunodeficiency virus is through uh saliva and feeling leukemia can be through saliva so it's like everything that happens to cats that's terrible apparently is associated with spit for some reason um so yeah it's like five in the morning had not slept in a very long time being told that my cat had herpes uh and just kind of laughing inappropriately at a vet

Speaker Bthey thought that dargo was uh herpes but it turns out uh he's a fucking nerd so no he uh he's got allergies and my other cat the three-legged one has asthma dargo's a bad boy He's a very bad boy.

MaxCan you tell the story about his water bowl and the socks? Oh, my God. I mean, this is one of the weirdest and most unsettling things I've ever heard of a cat doing.

Speaker BSo my horrible orange son, Dargo, he likes to put things into other things. And I can't decide if it's because he's really stupid or really smart. He's one of the two. There's no in between. So I can't leave my socks anywhere. And I try to be clean, but you know.

MaxYou know what the issue is? He's like a troubled youth. So he has a lot of intelligence, but he can't really like.

Speaker BYou both have teenagers.

MaxHe can't apply it. He can't apply it to anything other than like lighting fireworks and throwing them off a bridge at cars. Like, you know, like those kids in high school and you're like, you're going to be dead by the time you're 30. But you're also like the smartest person in this school.

Speaker BAbsolutely. He's crazy. Yeah. He's got the crazy. But so what he'll do is he'll take my socks and he will pick them up with his mouth and drop them in his. He's got two water fountains now because of the cat acne water fountain. Also, hot tip. Steel water fountain is the best way to get rid of it. Anyway, so he puts the sock in the water fountain and then pads it down with his feet and watches it absorb all the water. And then he'll go get something else and keep doing it until all the water is absorbed. Oh, my God.

Speaker AHomo does that too, my goofy fancy panther. She doesn't, like, pick them up in her mouth, though, because I think she just doesn't like dragging things that's beneath her for some reason. so she'll just like put her little paw on it and then walk backwards to drag it into the water fountain she does this if there's any paper towels in the room with her too so i have to like hide those from the cat otherwise she'll just be like well i need to i need to make this towel wet why

Speaker Bis it not i don't understand so dargo is huge he's like 18 pounds at this point he's long he's long he's very tall he's like a lanky guy um but one time he actually went into my bathroom took my bath mat and I woke up with my entire bath mat stuffed in the litter box.

AlexI don't... He's upsettingly strong. Yeah.

Speaker BThat's a beefy cat. The boy has grown to be

Maxa warrior. It's a level of destruction that seems premeditated. Yeah. Alright. Well, I have... I've prepared a couple of fun news items from this week to cover as part of our ongoing Dubai Friday follow-up.

AlexOh, Skype quit unexpectedly. Hold on. Okay. What a good program

MaxSkype is. Yeah.

Speaker BUpdate on the war. We've come to a truce at Baltimore, at the Battle of Baltimore. I'm just gonna

Maxre-up. Why, were you gonna lose?

Speaker BNo, he just offered me some real good stuff. Oh, you should

Maxtake it and then destroy him. That's what I'm planning to do.

Speaker BNine more turns, I can attack. Great.

Speaker AI think maybe my computer heard the phrase, I've prepared some fun news items.

MaxLike my aunt's virus taken and she's like, no. It's been a very weird week in the news. I mean, we might all die, I guess. So that's cool.

Speaker BOh, God. Can I close my ears for this?

MaxAll right. This was a follow-up from Vice. Twice a day since the beginning of the Trump administration, a special folder is prepared for the president. The first document is prepared around 9.30 a.m., and the follow-up, copyright 2010 John Syracuse, around 4.30 p.m., former chief of staff Rance Priebus and former press secretary Sean Spicer, rest in peace, both wanted the privilege of delivering the 20 to 25 packet to President Trump personally, White House sources say. These sensitive papers described to Vice News by three current and former White House officials

don't contain top-secret intelligence or updates on the legislative initiatives. Instead, the folders are filled with screenshots of positive cable news chyrons, admiring tweets, transcripts of fawning TV interviews, praise-filled news stories, and sometimes just pictures of Trump on TV looking powerful. One White House official said the only feedback the White House communications shop, which prepares the folder has ever gotten in all these months is, quote, it needs to be more fucking positive. That's why some in the White House ruefully refer to the packet as, quote,

the propaganda document.

Speaker CWow.

MaxOh, my God. So to summarize, to summarize, there's a lot going on there. Twice a day in the morning and the afternoon, President Trump gets a folder delivered to him by senior staff with pictures of himself on TV and positive news clips.

Speaker BLike, I want to make fun of this. I do. I understand that it's like a precursor to fascism, but also I want it for myself

MaxThat's well, that's what I was gonna say is that is that you know, listen a lot of times you see a new idea out there You're shocked your initial reaction is to is to mock it, right? It's like first they ignore you and then they make fun of you But I think we like to be thought leaders on this podcast and I think that there's some really good ideas happening here And listen, I mean, I'm an important person in this company And my question is, I want to know, why am I not getting a folder twice a day with pictures of me looking cool?

AlexAll right. I asked both of you if you wanted me to prepare this for this show. And both of you said no.

Speaker BNo, I said yes, except just not twice a day. Once a week is plenty because I do power poses. I apologize.

MaxThe only thing is, like, I get so uncomfortable. Like, I can't take a compliment at all. I would go insane if someone did this, if I was getting a folder of positive news.

Speaker AI just want to know what the under-over on whether or not that folder has stickers on it is.

Speaker BLike a gold star.

Speaker AYeah, like not like a classified Manila adult-ass folder. Like some like Lisa Frank Trapper Keeper looking thing. Like that's what I'm picturing in my head is it's like it's his special thing.

AlexOh my God, it's a gold folder. Like one of those backstreet skulls.

MaxLet me tell you, I hate to say it, I hate to say it, let me tell you, but everyone's saying, America, we can't make a scratch and sniff sticker anymore, okay, people? I hate to say it, we suck at scratch and sniff.

Speaker AReally, that's the thing that will bring the jobs back is reviving the scratch and sniff sticker industry.

Speaker BSmelly markers are, I think, an improvement.

MaxThat was, the smelly markers was always confusing to me because, like, what are you trying to, what's the behavior outcome here?

Speaker BIt's just a little extra, a little happiness. Just a little happy-happy for you.

MaxI'll do that. I'll open up a new Sharpie and get a little with that.

AlexYeah, my Sharpies make me happy no matter what the smells are. I don't know what you're saying.

MaxDo you smell that when we open the – so when we go to conventions, we bring, like, a whole, like – it's like a missile shell full of Sharpies. It's like a cylinder.

Speaker BYeah, like a plastic clear, yeah.

MaxYeah, and you open it up, and it's, like, 200 Sharpies. Because, like, when I sign a lot of stuff at these conventions, and I'll only sign three things with a Sharpie before it's bad, before it's, like, mushy. Yeah.

Speaker BBut there's new Sharpie tech now. Like, the ultrafines, the ultrafines are what you need because those don't go dull.

MaxOkay, we should be getting those because I go through those Sharpies like Kleenex. But, man, when we open up that new tub of Sharpies, I get in there and smell some Sharpies.

Speaker BThat's not good for you, bud.

Speaker ASo, wait, you have, like, a device that's like sort of vaguely shaped like a sharpie that's just full of smaller sharpies am i understanding that correctly like it's a sharpie homunculus like a russian doll yeah yeah yeah russian nesting dolls nesting yeah that's great that's good um uh i was like i'm i'm going into my book tour very soon and i'm like oh i should i should like figure out what i actually like to sign books with because signing things uh is fucking weird and i never know what to do and the book signings I've had so far

I've already spelled my name wrong multiple times your own name? oh yeah like I missed the dash on the queue because I try to do this thing where I make the Z go into the circle for the queue so it looks like a cool thing because I'm five years old and definitely have not ever practiced my autograph and code yeah I was told figure out like three things that you can write that are like little personalizations in case they want personalizations

and not just their name. And I'm like, oh, I'm really, I'm going to fuck that up. Like I know immediately if I'm already having trouble with the name thing, I actually accidentally made a book out to myself.

More miscarriage.

MaxThat was too good.

AlexIt took a second to go to my brain.

MaxI've seen people ask for books to be made out to like two eBay purchaser.

AlexOh.

MaxReally? Yeah.

AlexThat happens in real life. That's really funny. Wow.

MaxThat's so garbage. Yeah, because they're just at the signing to get the book signed and flip it. Can I make, I have an embarrassing book signing confession to make. I feel like I should come clean on the podcast. When I was in high school, I went to a book signing for Maddox. Remember Maddox? The angry man on the internet who yelled at children's drawings?

AlexYes.

MaxHe wrote a book about manliness that was very bad. Oh, God. And he did a book event in Chicago, and we went to, like, a Borders. And I waited in a line to have – and he wore a crown and a king's robe. Oh. And I was waiting in line with all these dudes, and he had, like, a – and he would make people, like, kneel in front of him. And I was, like – What? Whoa. Yeah, and I was, like, this is – and I was, like, this is so lame. Like, I've gotten myself into a situation that's just so lame. But I don't know. It was, like – it was, like, those were dark days. Like, if you found something funny on the internet –

There wasn't that community of, there wasn't Twitter or whatever, so you couldn't go find the cool, funny people. So I was like, this is a guy who writes funny things on the internet. That's what I want to do.

Speaker BHow old was he?

MaxHe must be about 10 years older than us, so he's probably like 40 now.

Speaker BSo when at the time, he wasn't some 20s.

MaxHe must have been in the late 20s.

Speaker BOh, God, that is way too old to be making people kneel to you, ironically.

MaxYeah.

Speaker BI don't.

Speaker Aon what date hypothetically would you ever bring up with somebody that you are that your dad is Maddox

Maxoh interesting

Speaker Bwould you take that straight is that like post marriage oh my god that's is he still Maddox

MaxI think he has like a podcast and stuff

Speaker Bwe can google it

Maxyes

Speaker Aonly person left that doesn't have a podcast

Alex1997 to present um oh He currently... The Alphabet of Manliness? Is that what you got signed? That was the book.

MaxThe Alphabet of Manliness. No! So it was like B is for bear, like a fierce animal that represents the manly virtues. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yike. Yeah, I'm sure I still have it signed.

Speaker AAt least it wasn't Tucker Max.

MaxOh, God. Tucker Max. That... Yeah. Now, there's a name I haven't heard in many years.

Speaker AI don't know who this is. I'm

Alexoh

Speaker Abless your heart you don't know who Maddox is

Alexno no no

Maxoh Tucker Max oh I'm not gonna look it up I don't I wouldn't lose any sleep over it

Alexno

Maxum all right let's I feel like let's get into this challenge because I have I have many questions

Alexoh I know who this guy I met this guy fuck this guy

Maxwait what

Alexwhy'd you meet him yeah

MaxI heard a bloop

Alexa bloop

Maxis Zoe still here a bloop yes

Alexthe I hope they serve beer in hell guy yeah I happened upon in, like, in Naperville, Illinois, there's this amazing bookstore called Anderson's, and they have book signings all the time. That's really, really cool, and it's, like, a nightly event. And so because I'm a nerd, we would just go there, and this is before, like, he was a gross dude, and we went, and he's like, who the fuck are all these kids? It was gross and horrible. But, yeah, that is the one memory I have of him,

and that wasn't a good story. The end. what a sparse sad Wikipedia page.

Speaker BI need to, so I'm still looking at the alphabet of manliness because I don't know why, but there's a post on May 11th, 2006. There's a post on May 11th, 2006. The alphabet of manliness is now rocking crotches over at Barnes & Noble.

MaxThat's, I had my crotch rocked. I mean, I must've been in, that was my like senior year of high school. So I must've been like, yeah, we're gonna go to the big city and see Maddox.

Alexokay challenge this week Alex your challenge no it was all right the the the challenge this week sort of came up we were for a long time I think actually like since the day I was interviewed at Cards Against Humanity Max Trin and I have been talking about body modifications because I very much want to be a cyborg because I'm a fleshy piece of trash. And I, for a really long time,

wanted to get a magnet in my hand. But at the time, I mean, any doctor is still going to say, no, don't do that. But I was getting a lot of MRIs and I thought it was a bad idea. Now, this random Wisconsin company is inserting chips into people's arms so they can buy food at the company store so i really want to get uh an nfc chip in in my hand can you describe it describe in what an nfc chip yeah what is it what does it look like a near well it can it looks like a tiny

tiny tiny little capsule like almost microscope microscopic like the one um you know the vial that they like uh like when it's inserted it's basically inserted through in most of them is it

MaxIs it a grain of rice? No, it's a bit bigger than that. Bigger than a grain of rice. That's not microscopic.

Speaker AIt's not. It looks like a really cyberpunk Tic Tac.

AlexYeah, that is the best way of describing it.

MaxOkay.

AlexAnd yeah, there are just, but I couldn't find a place in Chicago who will do it. Like body mod places and tattoo shops will do this. What do you mean you couldn't find them? You called places? Yes.

MaxAnd you were like, will you put this thing in me?

AlexYes. I know who will do it.

Maxwell and and so then the challenge my mind how did you what do you what do you just pick the

Alexphone up yeah i just do you want yelp that's literally yeah i know i just the top 10 like tattoo shops in chicago people gave me suggestions and then people gave me suggestions of like they've gotten like magnets and shit in their hands before and they were like i would call and then they were like we don't do that and just hung up it's like the one i think there's like a backroom operation happening at most of them. But anyway, I couldn't get a chip inserted in my hand within 12 hours of me wanting to do it.

MaxSo it's like a cyberpunk Tic Tac, and it's the same thing that's in the iPhone, basically? Like NFC is like some sort of wireless communication protocol?

AlexYes, it stands for near-field communication. And if you have a fob or something that opens a door, you probably have NFC.

MaxAnd is it powered or is it passive?

Speaker AIt uses magnetic induction. Basically, the scale DR is it's got a little tiny radio transmitter in it and something that holds a minimal amount of memory. And then it's got this little thing that when you get anything that's an NFC reader, like a phone or like the things that key fobs you put against, the little guy just sucks enough energy via magnetic induction to send a quick little signal back to the reader. And that's how it communicates with the reader. There's nothing stored.

There's no battery. It just uses magnetic induction, which is basically magic.

MaxOkay, so that's the challenge, just to get this implanted.

AlexNo, no, no. The challenge became just research it and do it in a responsible way. I see. What a lame challenge. I agree. Everyone yelled at me. Merlin Mann yelled at me. Everyone got mad. Not up and get this thing installed. Let's go. No, I do. I would get one right now.

MaxLet's Borg up right now.

Speaker BI can help. I can help. My brother has one. My brother. Your brother has an NFC thing? I totally fucking forgot about this. So my brother used to. Wait, this is like.

AlexI've been talking about this nonstop for a week.

Speaker BI just completely forgot. I just in that time. I just texted him now because I completely forgot about this. Oh my gosh. It actually was a long time ago. So he used to work at the UIC lab. And like, you remember when the UIC lab found the gene in fruit flies that makes them gay?

AlexWhat?

Speaker BNo.

AlexLet's circle to this right now.

Speaker BGoogle it right now. UIC lab fruit flies. Enjoy your life.

MaxThis is a very problematic study.

Speaker BOh, I know. It was, well, I know it like did something to them. Anyway, do your thing. Turning the frog's gay. Turning some kind of fruit fly gay.

MaxIt doesn't matter. This is very Alex Jones. Yeah.

Speaker BWhat's important is that they were chipping, I want to say like rats or something like that. And then they were like, dude, we should chip ourselves. And they did. So a couple of people have a microchip in their arm that you can like scan. And I just texted him.

MaxOkay, so this is bonkers. Yes, I agree. I don't even know where to start. We're getting ahead of ourselves, Max. Okay, so I have a billion questions about this. But specifically, we've invited our friend Zoe on the podcast because Zoe is already well into the process of cyborging herself. And Zoe, I think the first time that I possibly ever encountered you online was the blog post that you wrote, the Tumblr post that you wrote about your magnetic implant.

And then I sort of put together also that you had made like Depression Quest and like Trim was our mutual friend. But that was, I think, my first thing that I ever that I ever saw. And I like I honestly think about that blog post like like once a week. Like it just it just like got into my head. There's it's such an interesting it's just such an interesting way that that you wrote about it and you think about it. Can you kind of walk us through like what is the magnetic implant? Like why did you get it? What was the process?

Speaker ASure. I mean, I'm kind of a weirdo in talking about like I come from a pretty different culture than I think a lot of folks do. Like I grew up in a kind of rural Appalachian biker culture. So like tattoos and body mods were just like a thing everybody had. Like one of my earliest memories is of my dad getting a tattoo and it's like of a cool dragon and a wizard and a castle. And there's like a little lady face hidden in a crystal ball and that face was supposed to be mine. And it's like, it's just like a thing that everybody has. um so body mod has always just been like this thing were you like one of those like weirdos

Maxin high school who read like bmez and it was always trying to like show people like uh like

Speaker Alook they're hanging on these like meat hooks yeah i absolutely was like i i had gauges i gauged my ears during high school finals for something and like i have a clear memory of fucking up uh and like getting blood all over my chest and being like well uh i i think i still have 20 minutes until you let me leave so this is weird sorry sorry uh so yeah i was definitely one of those kids um and it didn't help that i was like trying to do riot girl 10 years too late uh

so i was i was totally this like gross little dirtbag punk kid um so i had i'd followed bm museum very closely and i thought uh chanel larat who's like the founder of bm museum and may he rest in peace, writing on his hypothetical magnetic implants were super interesting because he talked about being able to actually touch and sense magnetic fields. And it's like, yeah, the little pub tricks of being able to spin Canadian currency or lift up earrings or make really shitty,

attracted to you jokes and stuff like that. That's great. But being able to actually have a new sense was what was so profoundly interesting. But the magnetic implants were garbage. They usually exploded in people, and that didn't sound great. So then I forgot about it for a few years until this cool company sort of perfected the issue that was causing all the trouble with the prototypes. And now they're totally stable and fine.

MaxAnd what is the magnet?

Speaker ASo the magnet's like a neodymium magnet that's got gold plating around it and is encased in silicon. on. So it's like made to be as biocompatible as possible because neodymium and human bodies don't necessarily get along. So, you know, they've got those two layers of protection there to try to keep it from, you know, causing any issues. And I don't know of anybody that has like had any real issues with it, even in the friends that I know that have had ruptures, usually because like something horrible happened to their hand and that just happened to be there. Like I had a friend who's

like who like had to get it removed and like it was the neodymium had like totally gotten screwed up and like crumbled and he was still fine um so it's like as safe as this sort of thing can be which there's still like uh you know any risks that come with putting anything in your body and

Maxuh opening your skin okay what what is it so first of all before because i'm sure we sound like completely insane to people what does it do like why like can you talk about like the new sense that you describe having with this thing?

Speaker ASure. So the biggest reason I did it is because anybody who had done it said it's really hard to describe. And I'm like, oh, I need that then. I want that. I want to know the thing. The best I can do is like if you've ever held like a can of a carbonated beverage really tightly and felt like kind of those little bubbles on the side like move and pop, it's kind of like that that amps up a lot. And you can tell the difference between magnetic fields. Like, it's not just like, holy shit.

MaxYou have to do it. Yes. Holy shit. It's like, it's mad. It's like, that is like, it's like such a, it's like, I don't want to hear that something is like, that it's like hard to describe. Like, I don't, don't, I don't tell me that there's like a whole sense out there that I don't have that I don't understand. And I can't.

Speaker CYes.

MaxLike, don't say, I don't want, don't say that.

AlexNo, say it. I want it. I think you want it.

MaxIt's like how people like, when I would read Animorphs books, they would always describe how the, the animal stuff, don't laugh at me.

Speaker BThey would always... It was a giggle of delight.

MaxThank you. They would always talk about how when they would morph into flies or insects, because insects can see all kinds of IR light and spectrums of light that humans can't see. And I was always like, because I've always been interested in art and design and stuff. I'm like, don't tell me there's whole colors and senses that are out there that I can't even describe.

Speaker BWait, so in the books they said it was indescribable? Whoa. It was... K.A. Applegate, that's your one fucking job is to describe that.

MaxNo, they would describe it. I mean, but it was like, what can you say? It's a kid's book. It's like, it was amazing. We saw a lot of colors and like, vroom. There was a lot of sound effects in the world.

AlexOkay. She got better as time went on.

MaxNo, she didn't write the books after time. I actually... Listen, this is not neither here nor there, but the first 10 books, which she wrote, are the best, tightest writing in the series. Yeah. And then it was all handed over to ghost writers and her and her husband creatively directed it and the writing was very mixed from from there on i forget that we did not release

Alexour animorphs episode so we people but you are correct yes i was referring to like the final

Speaker Aarc she wrote right yeah yeah and i mean like to be fair they're kids books but that shit got really dark yes like the ending of animorphs is so pessimistic and just such a downer and i don't

Maxwant i don't want to spoil animorphs for a series that came out over 20 years ago uh they're very they get very dark yeah yeah wow are we all do we all read animorphs as kids is this why we're

Speaker Ball weird i did not no i was uh aliens ate my homework kind of girl oh hell yeah yeah i have

Maxas you can see i have the entire works of bruce koval um in uh in my in the uh in the in the

Speaker Bbookshelf yeah i totally ripped him off for a young author submission and i got oh i did i

Maxabsolutely did too i would i would write my own versions of bruce koval story did you have a

Speaker Bself-insert character and what was their name mine was jupiter

Alexpeople have told me to not laugh in mike i can't

Speaker Aso basically that's that's not ripping off you guys just did fan art oh it's true like that's just like that's just fanfic you're just little and doing fanfic about very specific fandoms for

Maxkids i 100 wrote bruce koval fanfic yeah i'm gonna need some time to process this uh what were we talking about magnets anamorphs magnets trump how do they work The eternal question. Okay, so you have this thing, and you've written – so you've experienced this, like, new sense of being able to detect stuff with it.

How did you put it in?

Speaker AI did not put in the magnet, which I am thankful for the fact that I never even attempted that. And where is it also? It's in my left ring finger right at the tip of it Because in order to get this new sense, you kind of need to put it somewhere where the nerves will grow back around it and sort of like add it to your nervous system sort of. Without it being like more of a cyberpunk, like, oh, it's actually hooked in. It's just like, no, the nerves grow around it. So it's like hypersensitized to anything that happens with magnets.

So I went to New York City after I did a bunch of research because I was living in Boston at the time. And Boston has weird stuff with body mod because like tattooing was illegal until like the 1980s or something. Cause they're like, there's too many sailors here and we want them to not be here drinking and yelling at things. Cause we're, we're Boston and we're still extremely Puritan.

MaxWe've all had problems with rowdy boys, with rowdy sailor boys coming through town and they, they, they kick over your sandcastle and take your girlfriend. We've all been there. Really? I hate when a rowdy boy comes by and kicks over my tank castle.

Speaker AThe Boston spinach, canned spinach economy was just having a really hard time. But yeah, so I took a bus to Boston. Like, yeah, I'm going to do this. And I was, my pain tolerance is very high. I've gotten a lot of tattoos. You know, like probably the worst one being like sort of close to my armpit, which is somehow worse than like the back of my head or ribs or anything like that. Like underarm is like any place you might be a little bit ticklish is like

nightmare hell. So I'm like, this will be fine. It'll be great. They're like, so what we got to do is we're going to slice into the tip of your finger with a scalpel. And then we're going to kind of like lift it a little bit to create the pocket. Then we'll slide the magnet in, get you up and you're good to go. The whole process will take like 35 to 45 seconds. I'm like, yeah, all right, I'm good. I got this. And they don't, they can't do like local anesthetic or anything. And I think this is probably why people got sketched out when you called around. Because if they get caught doing stuff like this, it's like in kind of a legal gray area where if somebody

really wanted to be a dick about it, they could try to get like practicing medicine without a license stuff thrown at people like, because it's not really clearly enough defined because it doesn't quite fall into something a doctor would do um but it's like like why why why isn't why don't we

Maxjust live in a country where you can just sign a form where you can be like i'm a grown-ass man and i want to sign a form for you to put this thing in me and i and i'm by signing the form i acknowledge

Alexthat i won't see you i'm a grown-ass woman i would like all of this weed in my body right now

Speaker Athank you the the grown-ass tech box like are you an organ donor yes no are you a grown-ass person Are you a rowdy boy?

Speaker BYes, no.

Speaker ABut yeah, so they might have just gotten a little bit worried about that. Just because like, you know, I think a big part of it is there's still this sort of stigma. It's much less than it used to be. But there is that sort of stigma, especially in like less, like in a lot of areas, it hasn't quite caught up to, you know, giving a shit about people that have tattoos not being like criminals or whatever. Because there's definitely still that perception in a lot of places. um so you know it's probably just pearl clutching at the end of the day um like heavens these

Maxpeople with things on their cyborgs today uh yeah okay so what do you do you what advice do you have for us what do you know about these these nfc implants like i have not even googled it like i've just been alex has been researching it but i do want one but i is it gonna am i gonna like i don't know am i gonna die like i like there's a lot of dr house episodes where someone has some weird thing inside of them and it like melts and then they have like you know what i'm talking about and they have like yeah like the kid has like uranium in him or something and he's getting sick

and they can't figure it out why and then and then dr house like looks into the camera at the end and

Speaker Bfigures it out well yeah i mean sorry go ahead zoe you're the expert i mean this is going to be

Speaker Alike a super unflattering comparison to draw um and might make you want to do it less because that sounds super uncool, but I mean, we've been microchipping animals for forever and they're fine. Like that's never been like a, Oh, something bad's going to happen there. Like it's, it's almost the same technology. It's just got usually better memory capacity. So like, I don't know of anybody who's actually had their NFC chip break in them. And even if it did, it's like, it's a simple removal thing. It's not like it's in it's not like it's underneath layers of skin that

would be like oh this is in your bloodstream now or something like that um and even then it's like i wish i had offhand how much like pounds of of pounds per square inch of force these things can withstand but like the outing the outer case is like this really thick uh strong ass glass that doesn't you know just break or shatter like the biggest thing you'd have to worry about is like something catastrophic happens that just ruins your hand and turns it into like a sad meat flapjack

Maxin which his title you probably oh hang on we have one more guest joining us I'm going to go live in

Speaker Amystery guest Okay.

MaxSorry, we have one late edition of the podcast. We're joined by Alex's nice friend, Joshua. He helps us with IT at the office. He's sort of a security consultant for Cars Against Humanity and advises us on our OPSEC, our digital security. the whole package. Thank you for coming to chat with Alex and I.

Speaker CThank you, Max. Thank you very much. I appreciate the invitation.

MaxYeah, of course. Well, we have like a meeting that I'm running a little late for, and we're talking about a potentially disastrous security idea, so I figured I should fill you in on this. Okay, so very quickly, I have a couple. Here's my last questions about the NFC chip. Here's what I want out of it. So number one, when you ride the L now, the Venmo thing, are you aware that this is that they take NFC so you can just wave your phone you can put Apple Pay at your phone and just touch it to the thing and get on can I make my finger do that because that's if I had

the little chip or whatever in my hand and I could just like touch my body to the thing and get on the L that's really cool because then even if I get like lose my wallet and I have nothing like

Speaker AI can ride the L and get to where I need to go so that's super that super depends because uh Apple's kind of close guarded when it comes to NFC stuff uh so you can't actually use your NFC chips with Apple devices because it's locked to specifically Apple Pay type stuff.

MaxBut haven't they announced an NFC kit?

Speaker CYou can actually use your Apple Pay cards with the L. You can scan it in once.

MaxIf I get the NFC implant in my arm, what I want to do is touch my arm to the reader and have it be like, okay, I recognize this as Max.

AlexYeah, there is no Apple Wallet API for independent NFC chips.

MaxI thought I saw that they had some sort of NFC kit or something.

Speaker Cit's in the talks uh ios 11 i believe they're starting to open up the nfc a little bit more but uh that's not necessarily something that will directly work at the moment

Speaker Ayeah and there's been people like a lot of that's been one of the biggest things that people who already have the chips have been trying to do and some folks have like gotten it to work in like i think uh the uk um by basically hacking it and reverse engineering it okay from their specific nfc like their specific nfc cards um so this isn't this is in the realm of doesn't work now

Speaker Cbut who knows in the future yeah it does look like we do have a uh there's going to be a sdk and ios 11 allowing for a little bit more nfc access okay question number two we have nfc door

Maxreaders at the office that are tied into our security system could i somehow set this chip

Alexto open the doors in the office we don't have nfc we have the u one uh you uh so you might know this better i forget it's hard to be an early doctor it's not rfid um but i i specifically called our security company because i wanted the same thing um you called the security company for

Maxthe office i didn't say who we were or who i worked for i just said your voice i was like

Alexhello uh i want a chip and then they were very confused and very upset and then they're like did you try to put one of our fobs in your hand? I'm like, no, no, no.

MaxDid you call them and do like a Bane voice?

AlexYou're just doing this so that you can do your Bane voice. Yeah, that's definitely what happened.

MaxAll right, well, now I got called out on it. Thank you for stepping on my bit, Alex. I appreciate it. Let me just cross that one off my list. Okay, Bane voice. Joke is done, everyone. Email at Alex Cox with all of your comments about me not doing the Bane voice anymore.

Speaker CWell, there is actually a company, though, in Wisconsin that's doing this.

MaxOkay.

Speaker CThat actually they're giving the employees an opportunity to implant chips in their hands. That's so rad. To open the door as well as buy snacks out of the vending machine.

AlexOh, my God. Garth gets you, man. He can do this. Joshua, we were talking about this earlier, and this is what made me really get into it. This company, did they even announce their name? Is it public? I forget. They're using their own proprietary stuff, right? Because I was trying to get into open source stuff and how...

Speaker CIt's out there, but I mean, there's also a Swedish rail company that's doing exactly what Max wants, a scan with your hand. So, I mean...

MaxI think that's so cool. Like, I'm very interested in how people in cities interact. And to me, there's something really cool about being able to board a train by just touching your hand to the thing. I'm like, I don't know. It's like a very personal connection to the infrastructure and the transit system in the city and makes me feel like I can get on the train anytime. I don't know.

Speaker CI like that. I like boarding with my watch, but I don't know if I really would go as far as something in my hand personally.

AlexI would.

MaxSo this leads me to my next question, which is almost every tech device can be turned against you, right? We talk about this all the time. Everyone's shitty thermostats and smart light bulbs. It's all vectors of attack. There was a story that I saw this week. Researchers hid a computer virus in a DNA sequence, in a piece of DNA. And then they sequenced the DNA on the computers that sequence people's genes. And because the DNA contained this computer code in it,

they were able to get root on the computer that sequenced the DNA because it infected the computer with the virus. Yes. So any code, any opportunity where you have this personal information and it's like part of your life, it can be used to attack you.

Speaker CThis would be something that what scares me is, is with a lot of, you know, at least with Apple Pay and credit cards and our venture cards and everything with NFC chips in them, we can change them. It's a lot harder to change this chip once it's implanted in you.

AlexExcept, except you just take it out. Wait a minute. What can you just take it out?

Speaker AYeah, well, you can also reprogram it from your phone on the fly, and it only has 888 bytes of storage. And in order for someone to hack your NFC chip, they basically have to be touching your hand right in front of you. So it seems like the easiest OPSEC thing is just don't let people put electronics on your hand. And if they seem like they're being sketchy, like slap them.

Speaker CSo do we start checking people's hands before we shake hands anymore?

AlexWell, that's the thing.

Speaker ADo you think they have an NFC reader hidden in their palm? Also, I did on my left hand anyway. I don't shake hands with my left hand.

Because I switched to iOS from Android because Android kept having all these shitty exploits, and I have security needs. I program the last thing I did was show a friend that I could reprogram it by doing like a really quick thing and it just pops up a window on people's phones that say dick

Speaker BOh my god Yes, this is the best thing I've ever heard

Speaker AOkay, I'm back on board. How much did it hurt? It didn't hurt like at all like the biggest the biggest problem was like the lizard brain Survival instinct was kicking and was like don't do that. Don't do that to yourself. You shouldn't do that This is gonna scare you a lot. No, you're not gonna be able to push this needle into your hand so it took way longer than it needed to even though like i have had some like i've had a decent amount of training and like body mod stuff and i was like a piercer surprise for a bit when i was younger um but still like would not recommend it it was definitely not as sterile as it should be but i did the same thing i called a lot of places around boston i'm like would you like no

it's hung up um so i got really patient i'm like all right well i went through all this stuff with magnet thing i've got some training and if it sucks uh that's my fault and whatever um so yeah I did it myself. The first thing I did was I programmed a humble bundle URL into it. Holy shit. Yeah. So what it would do is people would put their phone on it like a high five type situation. And then they would get a free copy of the game Deus Ex.

AlexOh, fuck. This is the best.

Speaker AOh, man. Because we have to do it. I was very proud of myself. Okay.

MaxListen, I'm on board. I'm on board. All I want is to open the doors in the office so we don't train.

Speaker BWhat?

MaxHow many? Be honest. What? Be honest. Yes. You're on the stand right now. I'm right here. You took an oath. I'm here. How often do you lose your keys?

Speaker BOh, God. Okay, so funny story.

MaxSlash, are they currently lost right now?

Speaker BNo. So the last time I lost my keys was yesterday, and it's because my brother's been crashing with me a few times, and he found my keys, and he put them on the key hook, and I did not look there, because that is not where I keep my keys. so it took me the entire day and then he came by at like 11 p.m and he is like why does it look like you haven't left the house since yesterday and it was like because i can't is it is it true or false

Maxis it true or false i have a question for the witness yes yes uh is it true or false that if you lose your driver's license one more time the state of illinois will not replace it because

Speaker Bso it turns out there's a limit there false false so there is a limit but i have two more strikes

Speaker Cso so so eat it your honor maybe we can put this uh driver's license on the nfc chip

Maxyeah that's what i'm saying though that's what i'm saying is like so i don't generally lose stuff but what i do do is i walk around on a phone call looking for where my phone is so i can leave have you guys ever done that oh yeah yeah about every day so okay here's what i'm thinking is I feel like if I can eliminate the last key in my life is the key to open up the office. I have the card that opens up the wireless thing. So I'm interested in if we can get some sort of reader on those doors where I can put my hand on it and open the doors, I'm on board.

That should be doable. I'm so on board for this.

AlexLet's do it.

MaxAnd how do we find a place who does this? Who will install this thing? Also, where do you get it? Zoe, you got it on your palm?

Speaker AYeah. don't put it in your finger um because that's that's like not something you need for this like you need it for the magnet otherwise like you're not gonna have the same sensation but um it for me it's like sort of like if you make an l uh like you're a 90s person calling someone a loser um that like part between your pointer knuckle and your thumb knuckle where it's just like

Maxthe hand kind of yeah the paint that's the part you squeeze to find out how well done meat is yeah put it in your meat paint so so when if you're cooking steak or something and you want to know how well done it is so if you open your if you make like an open hand and you squeeze that little webbing this part here that's rare or that's like that's like not cooked rare then if you put one finger down that's medium rare two fingers down is like medium three is uh medium

well and four is well done. This information

Speaker Bmakes me happier that I'm vegan.

AlexYeah, I mean, in two years you're going to be printing your meat, so it won't matter. You can tear that hand taint right up.

MaxSo we're going to have some sort of juicero for all of the meat that we eat, and it's going to have some sort of costly tech gizmo where I have to order a subscription to meat.

AlexYes, I'm very excited. Zoe,

Speaker Byou can just get the thing taken out of you if you wanted to, right? Yeah, it's super not hard. Can you feel

Speaker Ait if you squeeze your your meat taint um you can actually so since i did it myself i don't know if this is the case for everybody but i can i can usually see like a little tiny bump if i'm looking for it um and if i poke on one end of this like little cybernetic tic tac i can see the other end like pop up like i'm doing it now but like i don't feel it or notice it like ever it's the same case for for the magnet though um i feel obviously i feel it when it's responding but i've had the a little tic-tac guy for three years i think now maybe going on four um yeah three years so cool

and i've had the magnet for one extra than that um and you know i've had no problems with either of them uh i've been able to do like plenty of stuff like the only thing is like i uh i wrap it up in a band-aid sometimes if i'm like doing weightlifting or something where it's like it's a little bit distracting when your finger is sticking to the bars so this and this is just the magnet not the chip right yeah the chip is like like i have not had any issues with it whatsoever uh other than like programming something dominant and forgetting about it

Speaker Blike i so the reason why i'm so all aboard on this is because i've actually had an implant put in my arm and taken out already what was the implant it's a they they have this thing that uh it's a birth control implant oh sure i've got that guy yeah it's pretty it's pretty dope but like uh and And the taking out was the worst. Did it hurt? No, because I got it done in the office and the anesthetic. But when they took it out, they had to dig. They had to dig in there. It took them about 20.

It was two doctors, 20 minutes of digging around in my arm to try and find it. And they actually, because they were like, oh, you're on the thinner side. This should be fine. It'll come right out. And they're like, actually, you heal really fast. and all of this fat tissue just grew on top of it.

MaxYou do a Wolverine on them.

Speaker BYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they had to rip it out, and they're like, look at it. And I was like, thanks. It looked like a Q-tip.

Speaker AYeah, it's like that guy has weird little plastic hooks in him and stuff too. How long does it last?

Speaker BThree years.

MaxThree years? Yeah, yeah. That's a good deal.

Speaker BIt is, it is. Sometimes it can make you a little wacky because like everything that deals with your hormones can make you feel a little wacky, which is why eventually like it wasn't worth it. So I took mine out. But yeah, that's that's how it is when you're a woman doing birth control.

MaxYou take a lot of risks. Women should get these installed with like in the same way that men have the brosectomies that we've talked about, where they like go out with their boys for like a night on the town. Max, I've considered this.

AlexMel and I were like, we were like, okay, because we were talking about the brosectomies and like there's no like we don't want to get our tubes died. uh also not really necessary for two cis women to do this who who are married but we found a place and they're like oh yeah we'll go put we'll put birth control uh the little dingus in you and and yeah you just can't have wine beforehand but they'll give you wine afterwards just get a little

Maxdingus in you yeah yeah it's a new it's a new trend in 2017 the brosectomy we've we've we've talked about it at length you just bro down with your best buds you go out on the town you get your ball snipped that's the that's the trend we're gonna have champagne and chocolate it's gonna be great all right i feel i feel uh hesitantly excited to do this uh especially if you guys if you guys are that will go do it with me so i feel like this will be uh ongoing coverage uh on

Speaker Bdubai friday this will officially be the second body modification that uh max and alex and i have

Maxthat matches if we get it yeah we have we have our little box tattoos together yeah the dark mark Okay. Trin and Zoe, thank you both so much for joining us. This was really fun. Trin, can you tell everyone about Friendshipping and talk about where people can find that?

Speaker BYes. Friendshipping is a podcast that is friendship advice that is really just an excuse for my buddy Jen and I to compliment each other for like 45 minutes a week. You can find our podcast at FriendshippingPodcast.com. and if you want to email questions, we take questions from the internet and we'll answer them. We'll tell you how to be a good friend. You can email friendshipingpodcast at gmail.com. Thank you. Thanks for having me. This was awesome.

MaxYeah, and Zoe, tell us about the book that you're working on. It's honestly maybe one of my number one most anticipated books in the world that's coming out. I absolutely cannot wait to read it.

Speaker AThank you. It's called Crash Override and it's coming out on September 5th, so like less than a month now. it's pretty much available everywhere including Target and Walmart which I did not know about until I like looked at the page really closely I'm like oh that's gonna be weird because I'm on the cover and there'll be tiny memes in Walmart and that's very strange so yeah it's a book about how to make the internet suck less for people and why it kind of how and why like the kind of systems that make it suck now work and what we can do about it and we'll

have an audiobook coming out at the same time. I'm going on a book tour with 10 different cities, and I've got details on that on my Facebook page, like the public page thing. So if you're curious

Maxabout that, there's dates there, and you can check it out. Well, I know I have a little inside information that I looked up while I was getting ready for this. And my boy Milo Yiannopoulos sold a paltry 18,330 copies of his new book. I'm almost certain that you've probably exceeded that in pre-sales, but I'm confident that you're just going to destroy him in book sales.

Speaker AI blessedly am in the dark about book sales because I have a, what is it called? Oh, right, a publisher.

Thank you.

Show notes

Transcript

37. Hand Taint

Show notes

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