Do By Friday
Episode 30 artwork
Episode 30 · June 22, 2017 · 01:13:22

30. There's No Condoms in the Fantasy Suite

This week's challengeWatch The Bachelorette.
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Tap a timestamp or any sentence to play from there · machine transcribed (mlx:mlx-community/whisper-large-v3-turbo), expect mistakes

AlexThis is Do By Friday, the weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, watch The Bachelorette.

MaxAll right, guys, I had my Nazi artifacts, and I'm pretty sure I left them in the room behind the bookcase. Have you guys seen them?

I seem to have misplaced my Nazi artifacts.

MerlinI found a Hitler head and some head calipers. Are those yours?

MaxSilver Hitler head. Do you want to tell us that story? Oh, geez, let me find it. That was very on brand for Dubai Friday.

MerlinBasically, in, of course, Argentina, somebody, I guess, looked behind a wall, found a secret door. They got their magic user to find a hidden panel, and they went in. And there's just a ton of stolen, totally badass Nazi artifacts that have been found in Argentina. Like, no, these are really nice artifacts.

Speaker ATop notch Nazi.

AlexThere's like a Moscow mule mug. With the swastika, it's really not good.

MaxWere they in their original packaging? Because the resale value is very high.

AlexAre those harmonicas?

MerlinYes, to teach racial purity. Well, the Nazis called it the Jew harp.

Speaker AI feel like the harmonica is just an instrument that whatever racial group you're not a fan of, you can call it the that harp. The Polish harp. Yeah, whatever it is.

Speaker BOh, wait, what are you? I told you, son, do not play that Turk harp.

MerlinWould you guys please introduce our guest?

MaxI would be my privilege and my honor. So this week's challenge, we'll get right into it. I have started watching The Bachelorette. the reason is this season on The Bachelorette is the first black I don't know what you call them the main character the lead the lead the first black lead so the woman who is the titular bachelorette she's african-american it's the first time that's ever happened in like 30 seasons of the show our whole Cards Against Humanity writers room has been sort of talking about it and it sounds sort of lively and relevant to popular culture so I let's say purchased the first season

and I've been watching it. And how would I describe my experience with it? My parents, when we moved into the house, their housewarming gift was they got us a big, like a huge, high-quality bird feeder. And we hung it outside on the back patio. And a situation developed wherein our house, it was very Alfred Hitchcock. The birds enveloped the house. There was like too much bird seed available and we had thousands of birds. And our cat had a very hard time with it because what she would do is sort of hide behind like a kitchen stool or something all day holding stiff, like tensed, like ready to pounce,

but separated by glass and then just drooling and her pupils dilated. That's how I watched The Bachelorette. It's just like, it's just like, I'm just like, I'm just like totally transfixed by it. So anyway, anyway, we've been gossiping about The Bachelorette in the writer's room. And lo and behold, I discover that Allie Barthewall, one of our writers in the Cars writer's room, is extremely well-known for writing the Vultures, Bachelorette, and Bachelor recap column, and is one of the most knowledgeable people about The Bachelor and Bachelorette that there is.

Speaker AOh, hello.

MaxSo we're joined by a friend of the show, Allie V, this week. And she's going to explain. I know we all have a lot of questions about this show.

Speaker AI have so many questions. Yes.

MerlinI had a little bit of a Batman v. Superman where I started watching it last night, and no matter how long I watched it, there was still 50 minutes left. And then they started posing the doll.

Speaker AThey used to do it where there's some seasons, especially of The Bachelor, where they would do two a week. So they would have it Monday and Tuesday for the first like four episodes. So there would be three hours of Bachelor a week. And they do that with Bachelor in Paradise too. It's like with Bachelor in Paradise, which we can talk about because there's a huge scandal going on in like the Bachelorverse about,

Alexin bachelor nation it's called bachelor nation what is bachelor in paradise the bachelor paradise

Speaker Ais the spinoff that happens in between bachelorette and bachelor season so there's like the it follows like the seasons of the sun and like of the moon where uh typically the season it goes like through the year you start with a season of the bachelor and then you do a season of the bachelorette and the bachelorette is often uh someone who made it to the top three or four um at least on the bachelor so that's where rachel made it to the top three of nick's season of the bachelor he was the

bachelor before and he's also like a vital figure in the bachelor verse um this was his for the previous bachelor this was his fourth time on any bachelor show previously as like a contestant as a contestant he'd been a contestant three times before and finally was the bachelor um and then after the bachelorette they do bachelor in paradise where they rent out a resort in mexico and they bring like 20 girls 20 guys and slowly trickle them into this resort to watch them pair

off and hook up and they wake up and start drinking immediately during the day and so there's a lot of like you're in a relationship you're in a relationship in air quotes with someone and then uh someone else comes in and you're like oh they're hotter i'm gonna go fuck them and you leave the person you're with to go get a new person. And so there was a big scandal with Bachelor in Paradise that we can talk about later because it is like, it deserves its own time. But so Bachelor in Paradise, basically, it's like the real world of The Bachelor to make

it even more like weird and just like drinking all day.

MaxWell, one of the like one of the things I'm curious, I mean, Merlin, you watched one episode for the pilot. Yeah. And Alex, are you did you watch all four?

AlexYep.

MaxI watched all four and I'm in it now. Like there's no going back.

Speaker AI will say, so this is my third Bachelorette. I've seen three Bachelors. This is my third Bachelorette. I've seen three Bachelors and two Bachelor in Paradise. This is the best season so far.

MaxOh, I picked a good one.

Speaker AThis is the best season so far that I've ever seen.

MaxThe most striking thing to me about it, and I would say sort of the hook of like where I'm getting enjoyment from it, is so Rachel who's the bachelorette is she's a lawyer she has like the best career out of anyone in the sort of cast and she's like clearly the smartest funniest and most human of all of the people and all these men are just sort of like just they're all just sort of they're all just sort of idiots and like I guess they all get their one-on-one dates and then they sort of like humanize them a little bit so like who is the guy that's sort of like cute younger guy Dean

Dean was like okay by the end of that date I was like okay but like and it's so like manufactured like he's like you're the first person I've ever told about my tragic backstory

Speaker Aapparently that's true because he was like on Twitter and on Instagram being like I never really talked about this and Dean is also so Dean is very young he's 25 the bachelorette is 31 and I think she's about to turn 32 like they were talking about it and his backstory is his mother died tragically of cancer after she had gone into remission the cancer came back and she died when he was 14 or 15 and he'd never talked about it to anyone but I mean the the that's like a legit sob story sometimes

they have sob stories on the show that are like that's not sad like nothing bad they've had sob stories on this season that are genuinely like oh that is a horrible thing to happen to a person And I am so happy that you put your life back together because I would just lie down in a ball. But sometimes they're just like.

MaxWell, Lee's thing. Lee, by the way, is truly awful. I truly hate him.

Speaker AHe needs his own. He needs.

MaxHe's a snake in the grass.

Speaker AHis own discussion. Well, you've all. Have we all seen his tweets? Oh, yes.

AlexMerlin, have you seen Lee's tweets?

Speaker AIs Lee the country music guy?

AlexYeah. Yep.

MerlinHave you seen? He's got like a full Macklemore on top.

Speaker Akind of stuff yeah yeah it's a very big it's a very big macklemore what do i need to know first

Merlinof all thank you i am an empty vessel and this is i'm you know you haven't you haven't gotten to

Maxknow lee yet but i i'm gonna say i'm gonna come out and say it i don't think he's there for the

Speaker Aright reasons oh you think so i don't know so the the fans like bachelor nation is huge it's like huge rabbit fan base and like the most positive sense of that word but they went and found lee's tweets and lee his twitter is full of racist sexist islamophobic homophobic everything you could be and he had a tweet that was like i've never seen a pretty feminist he had a tweet where he was like the only difference between the kkk and black lives matter is that black the clan is

smart enough to show shame and cover their faces so he's like just an insane horrible racist like that is the definition of a racist and uh it has come out that he was contacted by producers who

Maxauditioned for the show well like he didn't you introduced me to a new thought technology about the bachelor in this week's a recap which was so fucking funny the recap honestly that's the other thing that i recommend if you're on the fence of like do i watch the bachelor not honestly don't watch it it's not very good but if you do one of the main pleasures is reading ali's recaps they're so sharp they're like so they're like are right to the bone they're so fun to read they're so like the writing is like so lively and funny they're truly delightful um but one of the thought technologies that you introduced me to is that that your theory is that the producers sort of

interfered and played their hand and asked rachel to keep lee around because he's sort of

Merlincreating drama and yeah do you think there's any other contestants that might have made it through the first cut that way i mean two syllables that fit on a shirt oh yeah oh yes well

Speaker Aso the the t with waboom and blake oh my god you said it that both of the and i mean both of them were on another reality show together and wait that was their backstory to their backstory so the thing about this show is there's a lot of people that just sort of like cycle around these reality shows trying to like make it um in in jojo season she was the last bachelorette uh the guy that she ended up picking everyone was saying that he just wanted to be on the bachelorette because

he wants he wanted to be an espn announcer and he was going on the show to like get his image and profile out there and he ironically is aaron rogers um brother the quarterback but aaron rogers is estranged from his family because his family is like very conservative christian and aaron rogers married olivia munn who is not and so his family like cut him off i don't know any of these names

Maxbut i'm sure it's important olivia munn is the smart woman who everyone told to shut up on the newsroom constantly uh that was all of the women sorry she was on the daily show yeah she was on

Speaker Athe newsroom yeah um but so he now after being on the show he was just like a failed pro athlete like he'd been on three teams as a quarterback in four years which is in like that's horrible that should not happen um if you're any good and he landed being a commentator on the sec network so like a college football conference network so all worked so it worked yeah all these people just sort of bounce around and like the bachelor is like the big one at the the bachelor is the

big one at the end like and so luke and waboo or waboo and blake were on another show together a bachelor world it was called exile and it was like you and your ex if you have unfinished business go on this resort with all these other people and their exes and just like figure it out And so the T is that Lucas banged a bunch of people's exes, including Blake's. And so Waboom banged a bunch of people's exes, including Blake's. So that's why they have beef.

And now Blake lives with Waboom's ex-girlfriend.

MaxIt's incredible that he gets laid in general.

AlexYes. I think I'm having another stroke. I didn't even know that network exists. There are all these things. There's this other world. It is true. How many shows can exist on television?

Speaker AAnd so like the Bachelor, all the contestants and the former Bachelors and stuff, they all hang out. They become each other's social networks. That was shocking to me. That is, you go, I follow some of these. There's a few people from past seasons that I really like and think they're fun and sort of normal. And I follow them on Instagram. And the only people they hang out with is other Bachelor people. And they all live in LA. They all live in New York. Like there's a few of them here in Chicago. There's a few of them in Chicago, but they all hang out together.

MaxThey're like Apple fans. Now that I know that there's this like pipeline of like bachelorette to, you know, C or D level fame, you know, like being like a college sports announcer or whatever. You know, one of our big projects is we're trying to get the listenership of Dubai Friday up. We're competing with the anti-Semitic podcast, The Daily Shoah, and they beat us in the numbers. And we really want to be the nation's number one anti-Semitism podcast. Yes. And it's aspirational, you know.

Speaker AYou could have dreams.

MerlinYour reach should exceed your grasp.

MaxExactly. Now, I'm thinking one of us, I'm thinking here's the play. I think one of us needs to go on.

AlexI'm so nervous right now.

MaxOne of us needs to audition and go on the next season of The Bachelorette.

Speaker AI tried. My older brother was almost on not The Bachelor or Bachelorette, but another show. And then I was like, well, now we know that you could get cast. You should go on The Bachelorette. Because we knew that it was going to be Rachel. And I was like, you should go on it. but he ultimately did not audition. But so what other bachelor questions, thoughts,

Alexdo we have? Well, because it's really exciting to have a black woman be the main focus. So canonically, she is called the lead. Yeah, you say the lead or just the bachelorette. The bachelorette. I'm learning so many things. And I saw some people being like, well, why aren't there any gay or queer bachelors and bachelorettes and i'm like wait isn't that just a bunch of people in a room who'd want to

Speaker Afuck each other the drama the drama well there was there was a shot at love with tila tequila and she's famously bisexual so there were men and women on her show that was on mtv i think and then there is there was one on logo called prince charming where it was a gay man as the lead and a bunch of men and i think and i think like some of the thing was like some of the guys that were contestants were also like, oh, but I like this other contestant. Like, why?

MaxWhat am I doing? The drama would be unsustainable. We can't possibly edit it into two hours.

Speaker AAnd then there was, so there are Bachelor shows in other countries. Like, there's Bachelor Australia and Canada and, like, Brazil and Germany, I think, has one. But on Bachelor Australia, there were two women who were contestants and they were going through this process and realized, oh no, we love each other.

AlexWe are now, we're gay.

Speaker AAnd they've now gotten married. And so it has spawned a marriage from two female contested.

MaxNothing would make me happier than if two of the men on this season realized that they were gay and they got married and left the show to get married.

MerlinI'd like to see Blake and Lucas pair off a little bit. Maybe little Adam can watch.

MaxLet me see. I have so many questions. Let's start here. Who do we like? Who do we not like?

Speaker AIn terms of, so I actually, I like Kenny, although he's getting a little obnoxious. Oh, I love Kenny.

MaxYou do? He was a little, he was a little bumpy. All right. Hold on.

AlexBefore Merlin actually dies. I'll be all right. No, this is good. You just made it through one episode, right?

MerlinThree sittings, yeah.

AlexThree. You can't do that. You can't.

Speaker AYou have to, like, rip off the bandaid.

MerlinI made it 20 minutes in, and then I ended up watching a Stephen Sondheim documentary that you guys are going to have to watch. Yeah, no, you know, I'm going to stay out of this one. I will say that this is one of the most excruciating things I've ever experienced in my adult life. But there were certain points where I turned a corner a little bit. When they started doing French subtitles for Little Adam. Okay. Oh, yes. Why is he still there? There was a point in the second act where I started to accept – in the Doctor Who community and elsewhere, they call it headcanon.

You come up with your idea about why this works the way it does. And I realized that she's in a living nightmare where she's the smartest person that's involved with any part of this stack of entertainment at any level. And for some reason, she's tribute. She's a tribute. She will go and fight in the Hunger Games for somebody. She's there. And I've accepted that. All I need to know to enjoy this show is that she's the smartest and most game for anything person, good sport, on this entire terrible, terrible show.

And now I can enjoy it as a comedy, a tragic comedy.

Speaker AYeah.

MerlinAnd then by the end, you know, I was, you know, I – but, you know, yeah. I'm looking –

MaxSo I said this the other day when we were talking about it for the first time. And I was like, this show is tragic because she's so much smarter and higher quality than all of the men there. Why is she there? These people are just, it's haircuts with the one of Baby Machine. It's weird. Allie's response that was very funny and very depressing was.

Speaker AI said that this is the group of men that is the most accomplished, the most interesting, the most naturally funny that I have seen in three seasons of The Bachelorette. Oh, Jesus Christ. It's the cream of the crop. So I would say go find – there's like a meme of the men from JoJo's season. So JoJo is the last bachelorette. She was like 25, and her type was like, I want a failed pro athlete with a Macklemore haircut. And you tell them, you tell the producers, like, this is my type. This is kind of what I'm looking for.

And they go out and find people that fit your type. And so there were legit – her final five were five guys that looked identical.

MerlinI'm looking at this page right now and it looks like they started with a police sketch of somebody who buys roofies and powders

Speaker Ajust give me some square

Merlinass jaws, men who don't wear shirts with collars just five

Speaker Awhite guys in a Henley T and like a waffle knit Henley T and so like so Jojo she was like I want a guy who's fit so they all were like aspiring personal trainers and like they people that like sell fitness equipment and on Rachel's season she's a lawyer she's uh like her father is a federal judge like she's from a real family who does and she does real things and I have friends that are in Dallas that are like in

that are lawyers they're like oh no she's a real person like people know who she is um so the guys on this season there are lawyers there are doctors but Diggy poor Diggy poor Diggy what happened Diggy was the cutest.

MerlinYou got a chiropractor. You got a business owner. You got an aspiring drummer. It's a pretty diverse group. Tickle monster. Do you got a tickle monster?

Speaker AThe tickle monster is a doctor. He's a pediatrician.

MerlinOh, he tickles babies?

Speaker ABut it's like, it's never come up that like, oh no, dude, just say you're a doctor. Like, that's way better. You get to choose your own chyron? I think sometimes they give you a chyron.

MaxWhat would be yours if you went on The Bachelor?

Speaker AIt would just be like make-em-ups. Like does comedy make-em-ups.

MaxIt would be like a full phrase. It wouldn't even be like a job. Mine would be like novelty card games. Like it would not look good.

MerlinMerlin, yours would be really horrific. It would just say disappointment in lowercase.

MaxInternet personality.

Speaker AI mean, past Chiron's have included Chicken Enthusiast. That was one. I'm the Bachelor. Bachelor Superfan. That was someone on, I think it was JoJo's season. He was a, like, that was his thing. And then there was one, one season. It was just twin. There was a set of twins on the show. On Ben's season. And their Chiron just said twin. Oh, no. both of them

twin

AlexEllie my question for you which I think you've answered this then do the premieres generally go like this because I thought this was the most boring thing I've ever seen in my entire life it was creepy it was weird I hated it they were like oh god she's like they're looking at this piece of meat and then people are tickling her and so this is like the high bar

Speaker Athis is a good one These, I mean, like truly, truly, these men are like way more naturally funny. Ah! And because honestly, like I was watching it and I've like had this debate already, but because she's black and they have so many men of color and specifically so many black men.

MaxThis is more than usual.

Speaker AThis is, I mean, okay. So I wrote a whole piece about of The Bachelor up until this point. So every season starts with 30 contestants and say Bachelor and Bachelorette. there have been 43 black contestants out of 30 seasons, each starting with 30 contestants.

MaxIt's like 1.2 black people per season. Right.

Speaker AAnd of those 43 black people, 59% of them don't make it past week two.

AlexOh my God.

Speaker ASo this show truly is notoriously white. It is like the whitest show.

MerlinThat is super interesting because I barely watched this because it was so painful. But the parts I did get when they would do the talking heads is the black guys were the funniest and most emotionally interesting by and large. At least in the way they're portrayed, that was what came across to me.

Speaker AAnd I've talked about this is there's just a natural, like, oral tradition of roasting, bragging, cracking jokes, like this kind of straightforward commentary.

MerlinDoing the dozens, right?

Speaker APlaying the dozens, yeah, that exists in black communities. uh so like these men are just they're already made for being on television because they're constantly ready to like quip and like crack a joke and so like truly when it's just like seriously it's so painful and it's just like 30 white guys because they're all just like we like

Maxrich we like jojo also like i just think like i think like when you think about like what is it to be like an interesting person like when i meet someone i'm like this person is interesting it's like they have some you know interestingness is tied up with like in some ways like the struggles that you've overcame in your life or the ways that things you know the bad things that have happened to you or the things you've overcome the challenges you've faced and I think like there is this type of contestant who's like they're like these these like you know whatever like 28 year old like soft boys and they're like parents paid for them to go to college and then they do like

they're like professional bodybuilders and they're on like a trust fund and they have like a nice haircut and they go on the bachelorette and like they've had no meaningful struggle they have no life experience they have no accomplishments and like of course they're not going to be interesting like the most interesting thing about them is like whatever banal hobby or travel they've done but like kenny use kenny as an example like he this is a guy who's had like a life like he was like a fucking chippendales dancer he has a daughter like he's a professional wrestler like

Speaker Ahe has an interesting career interesting like he has an interesting career that requires him to be engaging and entertaining on a microphone like there's no wrestler that gets away with not being interesting on the mic like that is the kiss of death but so you have all these guys that are like interesting or have like interesting careers or just got a little something going or when they get in a group they can kind of like and one thing that you'll that you'll know that you notice is like the people that are very popular on their season with the other contestants like end up

being thought of really well they will be given other opportunities and like they go on sometimes they go on to be the next bachelor bachelorette or end up on paradise um and so rachel is someone that from her season every single person loved her like all the other contestants loved her and she hangs out with like all of them and they're all like we're genuinely really happy for her that she like gets this opportunity i'd love to see a kenny season i would love kenny as the

Merlinbachelor it seems like it's important to to get somebody you can pull for i mean i could see doing a twist where it's somebody awful, but for this particular kind of thing to work. And I don't know if it works, but when it works, it's because you're pulling for that person. And it reminds me a little bit of like on Parks and Rec, the way that Leslie's relationship with Anne and how on the one hand, she reveres her above all else, but she's always like, oh, Anne, you beautiful tropical fish. You're not used to anyone ever. You're so used to being beautiful. And it's sort of like some of these guys, it seems like they've

gotten by for a lot of their life with some combination of like seduction community tips and tricks yes and like and like having the right part in their hair i mean i don't want to be dismissive i'm sure these guys they're they're good people but but when you see all well i'm trying to be i'm trying to be generous i made a doll uh but you get but when you get them all in one place and then you have to do like you know it's like twitter where like everybody makes the same joke over and over and like nobody seems to realize they're all making the same joke and the idea of going up there going, I just want to say you look really beautiful tonight.

It's like, oh, I'm glad you really thought that one through. She's probably never heard that one before.

MaxWell, if you're the only guy in the bar who's wearing a blue hat to attract the attention of the women. They call it peacocking, Max. Yeah, you're right. That's right. If you're the only one who's peacocking, you stand out. But if you're in a house of 30 guys and they've all brought, you know, one guy's got his fucking sandcastle kit and the other guy's got his like huge hammer and block of ice and they all have some sort of like D-level novelty pun that they're going to do. It's like, you know, it's just obnoxious.

Speaker AAnd some of that is the guys, and some of that is like the producers are just like, hey, you need a thing. Like, dude, you got to have a thing. Like, you got to bring a prop or a... And I'm sure they have like a warehouse where they're just like, oh, what do you want? And it's just like a wall of animal costumes.

MerlinI built these walnut cabinets for you because you're going to need them to hold all of my respect for you.

MaxI whittled a creepy wooden board that said, what was it? Enchanting with my grandfather's knife.

MerlinI was like, he's going to murder her. And no matter what they do, she finds a way. She loves everything. I love that. Oh, I love it. I love full circle stories. I love a good smile. I love where your head space is. I love your walnut cabinet.

Speaker Athe the thing of being the bachelorette which probably speaks to like the experience of dating as as a woman of like you gotta be you gotta just be like sure like sure and like there's no room you can tickle me this is normal yeah like there's no i love that there's no room to be like what the fuck are you doing jesus christ there's just no room for that and it's like you have a doll the lead to like the audience has to like her and you kind of it's that thing of like oh I would go I would go have brunch with her like she seems cool and fun and

so and I think on the I mean on the bachelor they put up with it but they can have a little bit more of like eye roll space of like okay this one's a wild one but on the bachelorette they're always sort of very like I don't know he's fun like and I wonder I would that that's maybe the subject of

Maxmy next article of like the gameness isn't that that thing of like uh men are scared that women are going to laugh at them and women are scared that men are going to kill them yes yeah so it's

Speaker Alike i'm sure that like the bachelorette and women in general are just more equipped to be like okay

Maxyeah you whittled me a creepy board with your knife that you're showing me thank you that's

Alexreally delightful so merlin wait merlin doesn't know what we're talking about right now oh yeah should we get into the lee discussion is that yes well okay well whatever max seems to have

Speaker Aa laundry list of things he needs I really have burning questions

MaxAlright, let me ask my one

Merlinburning question. He also has a six page essay about late stage capitalism we'll be sharing

Speaker AWe can continue to pepper in the questions, that's

Maxfine. Okay, here's my, this is the question I'm dying to know. Do people fuck on The Bachelor? Yes That is so creepy

Speaker ASo the official line of The Bachelor is you get to the top three, the final three and you have the fantasy suite date and usually that's the name of it it's the fantasy suite do you get a post-coital rose there are there are there's language that you guys just have to accept like for me to talk about this i'm sorry i'm trying so you make it so you make it to the top four and you go on a hometown date where rachel uh goes and meets your family

and Rachel goes and meets your family so you and you show her around your hometown and like this is my high school and you and like the marching band like plays a song or whatever and then someone goes home after the home and you meet their parents um and usually so if it's a man going on the hometown dates he asks the girl's father if it's a bachelor he asks the girl's father do I have your permission to propose and there's always some tension because every now and then a father is like you're dating two other women no what the what are you talking about so you have

the hometown date someone gets eliminated then you have the top three and you fly off to some exotic locale um recently they have been in like cold weather places which i don't think is fun like the last season they were in like norway or something like no one is like i can't wait to fucking norway but usually it's like thailand or fiji like cancun like they're beautiful where So you're in like your date. So you have a full day together. You like go on a catamaran and like drink champagne and like pet a dolphin.

And then you go to dinner.

MaxSome country music singer who I've never heard of. And they're like, oh, my God, it's John Christensen.

Speaker AYeah, like some random. So then you have this full date. You go to dinner and you have the like, I just feel so close to you. And you get a note that just says, if you wish to continue the date, use this key for your fantasy suite. and that you ask they get a fuck card they get a fuck card and they ask and the lead will ask the contestant and be like do you want to go spend the night and they will say usually will say they most of the time say yes and it is also so and then you go you get a hotel room it's like a really nice suite or sometimes it like depending on where you are it might be like a cabin or like

they had one on the bachelor recently where it was like it had a huge skylight so you could see like the aurora borealis because they were in norway and it was like a cozy thing and then you have the night together and that is the first time that there's no cameras no microphones no producers so some of the contestants are like that's the first time we ever can really talk to each other where we're not like making sure to cheat out for the cameras and people fuck like people have that's when you have that's the like socially acceptable time to have sex and socially acceptable so is

Alextheir pre if you just so oh it is there's lots of controversy in the bachelor universe of the pre

Speaker Afantasy suite sex and so uh the the one that that happened when i covered it it was caitlin's season she was two bachelorettes ago so not the one before the one before that and nick who was the most recent bachelor like i said he is his own crazy figure which if you want i can go into but he joined her season late because he the story was he met her somewhere but they had already started filming and since he'd already been on The Bachelor they were like oh of course you can come so he joined her season they went on a one on one date they're in Dublin

and all of her dates were just like let's go whiskey tasting she was awesome and so she they were making out in the street like after the date like they were walking back to get him to go back to where the guys stay they stay separate from The Bachelor or The Bachelorette and she was like I'm having a really great time I'm really enjoying this I don't want you to go home and he was like I don't want to go home either she goes well why don't we go back to my hotel room so they went back to her hotel room they had sex he left in the morning and at that

point there were maybe eight guys left six or eight so it was like way before when you and so she was just sort of like uh I probably shouldn't have done that like that's gonna make more trouble than is going to be fixed. And she was like, I just won't say anything. They showed her kind of talking to a producer being like, I just won't say anything. And then he immediately went back to the guys and was like, we spent the night together. It was amazing.

We just had this connection. And there were a couple guys on that season that were like, this is bullshit because he has spent the night with her. He had sex with her, spent the night. They had a whole night away from cameras that we don't have. Like he has this insane advantage. Like how can we even.

MerlinThat's the ultimate act of injustice to one of those guys. Why didn't I get a chance to fuck her? I could have ruined that woman.

AlexThey had an organic fun time together.

MerlinObjectively speaking.

Speaker AIn the competition of the show, time is your greatest benefit. You see these guys being like, I didn't get the group date. I didn't get the one-on-one date. And there's weeks where there's lots of guys where he's like, guys will be like, I didn't get a date this week. I didn't see her at all this week except for this cocktail party. This is my one chance to, like, make an impression, which is where you get, like, oh, I'm going to build her a sandcastle or give her a weird gift or whatever, or sing her a song. And so it was like, yeah, you're right. Like, in the rules of the game, in the way that this show works,

he had an unbelievable advantage.

MaxBut it's objectively it is. Okay. So one of the amazing things about my experience of watching the shows, like I was so skeptical. Like I don't like any, I don't like anything.

Speaker AYeah.

MaxAnd I was so skeptical watching this, but it was incredible within 20 seconds of starting it. I was just like into it. Like they just, they just throw you into it. And I was like, this is amazing. If they gave me 10 more seconds to think about the premise of the show, I would turn it off.

Speaker AAnd they also, because the way that the show is structured of, and just to go back to the sex thing real quick, Like there have been people that have come out from the other seasons and been like, oh, we had sex. Or we like I gave him head or we fooled around or whatever. Like that exists like that. They're like, oh, yeah. But we just snuck away or we were on a one on one. And we just, you know, in the car ride back to the hotel. Like where. So it's come out that people do have sex. But like with Caitlin, it was like the first time that it was really like, oh, no, this was very public.

And it was very clear, like what happened. But so about how the show sort of hooks you in, the reason now that they bring The Bachelor, The Bachelorette from the previous season is it's like you have an instant hook. And they assume that you've watched everything. And they assume that you know that person's story. And it's like you're watching your friend who got their heart broken get back out there. Like that's the vibe that they kind of want. And so when they pick the Bachelor or Bachelorette from someone who went pretty far, they assume, like, this person was a fan favorite.

The other cast members liked them. They didn't have a lot of drama. They look at your Twitter and Instagram followers, and sometimes that makes or breaks the decision. Or they'll tell someone, they're like, we're thinking you might be the next Bachelor or Bachelorette. Can you get your followers up? Like, can you start having a social media presence so we can have, like, a built-in fan base for you? And they assume that everyone watches everything. so they're like oh you're just but you've bought in like if you're tuning in they if you're tuning in you're tuning in because you've already bought it you've already bought in okay and to the premise

Maxof the show that like everyone is here of like oh are you here for the right reason to like because you love rachel and rachel's like looking for her true match or whatever like it's so opposed to the the like artifice of the show and so it's like to me it's like if they have a one-on-one date and it goes well and they sneak off and they fuck i'm like way more at peace with that because that's how people are yeah then this artifice at the end where it's like the three final guys get to fuck or whatever in a way where the show sets it up and has cameras on it it's like so there it's like

Speaker Avery well touching the line of like prostitution the the premise of the show the thing they want you to buy in is that you are watching a fairy tale you are watching like the triumph of true love over all the you know you have your lead they're like you're once upon a time there was Rachel and she got her heart broken and now she's gonna go find true love and so they want it to be very I mean ABC's owned by Disney they want it to be very like clean and um the sex is all in

you window it's not in your face like there was a scandal a few years ago or like a long time ago where two people snuck off, like The Bachelor and a girl snuck off and into the ocean, but they still had mics on. And ABC, they played the noises and it was like slurping noises. And they sold it like they had, she was blowing him like on the beach. But it was like, but so that was like too dirty for the show.

And people were like, this was too dirty and weird.

MaxBut the coyness, the wink and the nod and the adolescence around sex, it makes it so much dirtier and naughtier than if you were just how young, how people date in their 20s now, which is they go on apps and fuck each other.

Speaker AAnd I mean, Rachel's in her 30s. Right. Like the guys, she's 31. I think the oldest guy is like 37.

MaxBut the show creates the taboo and then transgresses. And that's the, you know, they create a boundary and then they cross it.

Speaker AYou have to earn it.

MaxRight.

Speaker ALike you have to, it's not like a taboo, but you have to earn it. Like you have to make prove yourself worthy of getting to the fantasy suite date. And there's also like this like in the show, this conversation of like I couldn't take her to the fantasy suite if in my mind I had these doubts. Like it presents it like very like sometimes purely of like, you know, I have the four women that I can pick who I know the next day is a fantasy suite. there's one woman I'm not entirely sure about or I think if I had sex with her and and we didn't go

and I didn't pick her in the end it would have been a thing and I remember on Ben's season he was the bachelorette before Nick he took someone to the fantasy suite and then didn't pick her for the final two and she was like then why did you have sex with me like if you knew you liked these other two women more why did you have sex like she's like oh so you just wanted to fuck like you just wanted to have sex with me and there have been bachelors have been accused of like keeping

women around just so they can take him to the fantasy suite and like fuck them so it's like a

Maxvery strange like dynamic it's it's there's something there's yeah there's like something there's something so evolutionary or like primal about this this show and the popularity and enjoys in popular culture and that it's like this like touchstone thing like sports where you can like get in an elevator and talk to someone about it which is honestly for me I'm actually really enjoying that aspect of following The Bachelor because I don't have anything to talk to people about like I don't watch sports or like I don't know what the weather is like I have like nothing like yeah so this is great actually to have like one accessible piece of pop culture but

I bet like I do think there's like something a little weird of like you're basically watching like you know some so like sexual selection make species develop these like crazy like the baboons with the huge red asses and it's like like peacocks with their huge feathers it's like these things serve no evolutionary purpose but except to demonstrate your fitness to your mate to reproduce so there's extreme arbitrary evolutionary pressure put on these these particular traits and they don't like help the animal survive it's just the thing that demonstrates that they have that they're like

a fit animal in their environment. And there's so much of that that I see. I can, like, sort of read The Bachelor that way of just these guys. Like, who is the one guy who got all, like, amped up and was doing push-ups with Rachel on his back?

Speaker AOh, Josiah.

MaxJosiah, yeah. Like, he gets, like, so, like, full of testosterone. He's just, like, he has, like, energy. And they're all just, like, sort of sexually, like, competing with each other in this really primal way. And that's why one of them was also, like, bro, this is, like, life or death. I'm like, no, it's not. It's a reality show.

Speaker AIt could not be further from life or death.

MaxBut it does, I do think it taps into some, like, lizard part of your brain where it's, like, you need to compete with the other males to reproduce with the female or literally, like, your life is a waste.

Speaker AAnd I also think, like, you are so isolated. They don't have TV. They don't have magazines. They don't have books. Like, they don't, you're sitting in a house, like, in a mansion in Southern California all day thinking about, like, this person that you like, that you have a crush on. Like, and you just sit there. Like, imagine if, like, you, like, had a crush on someone, and then someone put you in a room with no TV, no books, no magazine, no phone, for, like, a week, and all you did was sit and think about your crush. And then they were like, and now you're going to go on a date with them.

You're going to go ride in a hot air balloon. You would lose your fucking mind.

MaxLike, all I've been doing is sitting, thinking. Like a prisoner who gets furloughed for the day. Yeah, and you're just like, oh, fuck. And you just go rob a convenience store, and you're like, I don't know what happened.

Speaker AAnd my mind went blank and I just, I looked up at cash and blood on my hands. And like, that's what these, so like, I imagine it must be like a maddening experience because you're just sitting there, you're sitting waiting for the person you like to pick you. Like that's literally like all you're doing. And you're watching like other guys get picked and you're like, fuck, why can't I? And you're just like losing your mind. So then when you get to talk to her, you go crazy.

Or if you notice someone, like there's been people, obviously, it's like they just form hatred against other people. Like on that season where the guy had sex with the Bachelorette, the guy, another guy, the guy she ended up picking in the end, would not refer to him by name. Like he got, he was so offended and like put off that this guy had done this. Good Lord. He would not refer, he's like, and he said in his interviews, he's like, I'm not referring to him, but I'm not calling him Nick. He's that guy or the other guy. Like he would not refer it. He's like the Voldemort of The Bachelor. Yeah, he would not refer it. But it's like if you're just by yourself like all day around a bunch of fucking other idiots

and you're just talking about what you're going to do, like you would go crazy and lose your mind.

MaxWhen we did the Riders retreat in California, we would – Josh found this place that was like a wilderness preserve. And they had a bunch of like African animals that they do conservation of. But it's in like Sonoma. It's in like Northern California. And we went and did this like safari tour. And one of the funniest things I learned was they have these two white rhinos and they're trying to, you know, it's very notoriously difficult to breed white rhinos in captivity, but they're trying. And one of the techniques that works is so they have a male rhino and a female rhino and they're both of reproductive age and they've been living together for six years and they've never had sex or had a baby.

so the technique that they're trying to get the white rhino the male to want to breed is they got another more virile white rhino yeah and put him in a pen like 20 feet away in a separate thing right and apparently like the pheromones of the other male white rhino will drive the first white rhino the male insane and he'll feel the pressure of like sexual competition sounds like it sounds

Speaker Alike ninth grade it is right that is like men living in a dorm or it's like you fake a note from like your boyfriend at camp to make the guy that you like yeah false flag fear moon operation yeah like the thing like which is the thing oh if you think i haven't been asked to write several of those notes because my handwriting is terrible you would be wrong but i like i remember being in the bathroom at like a seventh grade dance writing a note from like christy's fake boyfriend that She would parade around in front of the guy that she liked that just wouldn't ask her out.

MaxThere is an element of people that they're still essentially animals. Yeah. And I do think there is some tendency. And also, the guys on The Bachelor, I mean, let's be honest, they're more animalistic. Than they are men. Yeah, they have less like one difference between me and the contestants on The Bachelor. I don't think they're like lying awake at night, like upset about some philosophy problem. Or they're despairing about that a person can only read 6,000 books in their lifetime. And you have to pick the 6,000 books that you read.

But so they're all, you know, they're very instinctual people.

Speaker AIt's also part of it is like if I don't get picked, I go home. right you're not like it's not it's not just like oh i don't get the girl i like i have to go home i have to pack all my bags and hug everybody goodbye and get in a van and go to the airport and go home like you're you're put up you get as much alcohol as you want all day every day you're going on trips you got they got to meet kareem abdul jabbar like you get to go to you They'll probably go to like Maui or something.

And it's like, oh, I have to go. If I don't make her like me, I have to go home. Oh, of course I'm going to like give her a weird thing I whittled. Like you're just doing anything. But to like, because part of it is like I have to stay. I have to like earn my keep. I have to stay.

MaxThere's just some part of your brain that must go insane. Where you're like your testosterone is off the charts. And you're just like, I have to sexually compete with these other men. Whatever dumb thing they do. If this guy whittles a board, I have to whittle a board that's twice as big.

MerlinRight, right. But it's also like waiting for a table at a restaurant when you're like super hungry, maybe it's hot outside, and you're just like every second that ticks by, you feel more like you're losing your mind. It's just in this case, you think that by whittling something, you'll get a table faster. Right.

AlexI have some questions about production. Yes. So you said they go out and ask people in advance, please build up your audience on your Instagram and stuff like that. and obviously everybody has been vetted so how does somebody let's say a creepy snake racist get

Speaker Aonto the show like yeah so i would also say if this like if this at all interests you go watch the show unreal and so it is a drama on lifetime uh scripted drama that is based on the bachelor and like several of their story consultants and producers are people that worked on the bachelor so like the mechanics are accurate like they obviously heighten up like what happens like there's never been a bachelor where someone like dies but they have you know so they have all these

things where like it's super heightened can i ask a question about that yes i only watched a couple

Merlinthree episodes of that but i loved it i did i think i recommended it to max i love that actress um how true the girl who's the showrunner the one who was away and came back shira it's shiri

Speaker AAppleby, Shiri, Shiree Appleby.

MerlinSo what I recall them portraying on that show is that you as a producer are sort of assigned a person and then you will contribute to the storyline and how that all works. And I guess if I'm remembering correctly, there was this idea that if your person does well and earns more camera time, like that person does better, you do better. Is that true? Is that how that works? Do you have an incentive as a producer? First of all, are you sort of assigned a person or group of people?

Speaker Aso i don't have them i don't have a ton of knowledge of like exactly how it works i've like listened to podcasts and interviews and watched unreal and stuff like that um but you are assigned a group of people or a person that is your like you're in charge of them like you are their advocate um it is your job to get them to encourage them to get screen time and to get the interview and like get them to say what you want them to say um and like people if people sometimes like

if someone repeats so if they're on bachelor or bachelorette and they go on bachelor paradise your producer might come with you to like be your producer because it's like oh you have trust in this person we want to have you feel comfortable so we're going to bring a person that you are close with um i don't know on because on unreal they make it where it's like money like it's just like straight up like financial incentive so i don't know what the equivalent is on the bachelor bachelorette but like you know it's the same thing like if your person goes home you're out of work for the rest of the season like you want to keep your person around so you can stay around and and

working and people move up you know there's people where they start as like a producer like assigned to a person and then they end up like as a supervisor position if they like do well and stuff so i assume there's incentive and i mean it's also like you want good drama for the show you don't want a boring season um so like back to lee they he did an interview before the show started before people found out about his tweets that he was produced he was approached by a

producer on facebook being like we would love you on this season so people do submit like cat through casting calls and stuff like that or you can have a friend can nominate you um but it also is like you're you can be approached by a producer to be on the show and it's like for me my total there's no way they don't know oh yeah is a racist there's no way they they didn't know because they do look at your facebook and your instagram and um things like that and your twitter like so there's no way

they didn't know it just goes to show that like they thought someone being a racist is equivalent to someone being like a loose cannon or petty or jealous like that it would be the drama that the

Alexdrama is equivalent it like turned the tide for me in terms of like like what makes okay bigot then what boom guy like are these the same level of yeah like it what what's like douchey and then

Speaker Awhat's abusive like ah and so they were on my skin crawl on the last season jojo season there's got Chad and he was like it was such a he was the most Chad that like has ever Chad and he was it was a big drama because he became like borderline physically violent against the other contestants and he knew how to turn it off around Jojo and he had like a sob story so he could turn it off around her but then the guy they the guys also I will say some of the guys like stuck their nose

in it in the wrong way and like if you're ever spending all of your time complaining to the lead about someone else like you're not doing great um but so guys would go to jojo and be like hey chad is this asshole he's yelling at everybody in the house like we don't like him and there was like a couple moments where he you know shoved someone or tried to pick someone up and and it was this this question started happening of people that watch the show and like intelligent people that were like commenting on the show and like feminists watching the show of like if you have

someone who's dangerous and like could be physically violent like why are you putting him why are you not just kicking him out and eventually he did leave but he before he left he came back to the house after he'd been told to leave and like tried to confront guys and be like you're the reason i'm going home it's like no because you're an asshole and then they put him on paradise and he did that he he like picked a woman he was they're drunk and um there was another girl who was like her thing she was kind of a party girl and they were both drunk kind of they're very

attractive like chad was an attractive guy and they were making out kind of you know heavy petting and he picked her up and like shook her and like and everyone was like oh no he had like and that was a moment where like everyone was like he has to leave like lace was having fun but then he just like and in and like he would in his mind he probably was like i'm being you know i'm being memorable i'm being or like or just that way of like there there are guys that like i'm negging

or whatever um he's like oh shut up come on you're being such a bitch why don't you just like come back to my whatever and like picked her up and moved her shook her or something and she was like oh i'm not having fun anymore like i'm not i don't want it no no no and the cast got together and was like we want him to leave like he made lace feel unsafe we want him to leave and so there's these questions of like why he was violent on the season of the bachelorette he was on why did how did he end up on paradise like he was violent already and you put him on a show where

they have no rules like paradise is just like go out into the surf and fuck like why how did he end

Maxup there oh man boy why okay uh why did diggy go home i like i don't know i liked him so much he was like smart he could keep up with her i don't know there there are one of one reading

Speaker Aof the show that exists is it is like it is a romantic comedy so like the on the first night the lead probably sees someone and they're like oh oh you're it like you're the one or after their first one-on-one date or whatever so very early in the process and then it's like we have to just get over all these other obstacles and all this weird hoops to jump through to end up with this person to end up with the person that i saw the first night so it's like who do you think that

Maxwould be for rachel is that the guy who speaks spanish so i've read spoilers so i don't want to

Speaker Aspoil it if people know because there are places where they have people leak who goes home when and stuff like that but it's like she's and she has also said she's like i'm engaged i'm very happy i found my best friend we are in love like rachel said that rachel said that host the show yeah like inner yeah like she's gone like found or like jimmy kimmel and stuff i'm in like oh i'm in love i'm engaged like how often does that happen on the bachelor so because like someone

Maxwins every season but i can't imagine they stay together yeah this is i feel like i have to jump

Merlinin here because i have got to ask the dumbest dumb guy question ever this is obviously a farce Do people actually get married because of the show, like really married?

Speaker ASo I'm looking up the exact stats. But so there have been like 21 or 22 seasons of The Bachelor. And this is the 13th season of The Bachelorette. And there have been three seasons of Paradise. The fourth season was halted and will resume filming, which we can talk about. But so of the Bachelor and Bachelorette, there are six couples that are still married.

AlexWait, but so people did, but how many people actually did get married? Six, well, so there's six that are still, that seems like a pretty high ratio.

MaxSo at the end of the season, you like ask the winning person to marry you. So there's like an engagement, right?

Speaker AYes, so on the Bachelor, he proposes. On the Bachelorette, you get proposed to. and the other the other guy sometimes he starts proposing and you have to like stop him and be like oh no no no no this is not going the way you want um but so it it does end with a so cruel yeah it's really there's been ones that's like oh no this is really bad it's like the

Maxsimpsons episode where they film well they film ralph giving the card to lisa and it's like you can see the exact frame where he breaks and it's like you choose me and it's like these guys like

Speaker Ai imagine proposing to anyone and under any circumstances is nerve-wracking and you have to build yourself up and like talk yourself into it and then to have her be like oh no i like jeff like i want jeff um but so they propose at the end of the show almost every season has ended with the proposal there's a couple notable ones that didn't that they were like we're just gonna keep dating um and then there was one where the guy proposed i forget which season is the bachelor proposed said i changed my mind took it back and then proposed to the other person yeah i forget i

that was like way before i ever started watching or recapping um and uh so basically you propose you're given a ring by neil lane and that's like a jeweler he's like a famous jeweler and that's a big part of that final episode like picking you get like a selection of rings and you and you have to be like this one says rachel like you have to pick which one she would like like you're picking a new dalai lama and then after that um you have to stay together for nine months to keep the ring

Alexyou have to stay engaged nine months to keep the ring what a weird i mean the heart wants what it

Speaker Awants arbitrary amount of time so a lot of these couple like because it's like these are these are like yeah hundreds of thousand dollars rings like they are insane and it's like board of people can

Alexset like abc producers are like okay what's an acceptable amount of time you have to stay together

Speaker Afor nine months then you can keep the ring um out there they're having how do they like enforce that yeah you have to like they make public appearances like they so you're you're you're

Maxit's not just that you stay together it's that you're on some sort of um talent contract with abc disney and you do their press junket yeah you do this you do the like the morning show

Speaker Athe day after and you go on kimmel or whatever um there have been so like recently there was a couple ben who was the bachelor two seasons ago he got a show on abc freeform uh or like what is that it's abc it's abc family it's another channel in the abc universe you're teaching us so much and uh they got a show like our first year of engaged being engaged so it started with like her moving to colorado the woman her name is lauren like her moving to colorado to move in with him they

setting up their house abc offered them like to get married on camera which is like a thing that they do now if you get engaged from like a bachelor show you can get married like as part of another show um so they offered them hey we'd like to produce an hour-long special of your wedding

Maxand they really use every part of the buffalo here

Speaker Aand uh and so they said we'll give you an hour-long special on abc you'll get married We'll pay for a lot of it. And, you know, we have all these vendors that you can use. And they agreed at first. And then, like, they didn't want to. So they had a reality show of, like, these people. And it just recently came out that that couple has now split up. Like, they didn't get married.

MaxOn all of the one-on-one dates, I've noticed, like, one of the exquisitely weird things that happens is that there's, like, always some sort of out-in-public components. like the one where they had to ride horses through oh yeah down beverly who was that was that rodeo drive it was anthony anthony that's right and um my least favorite of the one-on-one dates so far

Speaker Aum and there's a few like early one-on-one dates where it's like this is just a nice guy we gotta have him do something yeah and then he goes home shortly after yeah he just had no

Maxpersonality yeah um and there was the one where they were um i guess the one where they were at the pool party for dogs and then there was the other one where they ended the blimp but then it ended at the concert and they were up on stage dancing or whatever. And I've been sort of thinking like, it's so weird that all of these dates, they're like, so not only that it's not enough, it's not sufficient that they're on camera, which they're always on camera, but it's that they also have to perform the date for like some sort of contrived audience that they put together. Oh yeah. Look, we stumbled into this concert that was just for us or whatever. But I wonder if part of it is that Rachel knows

that post doing The Bachelorette, she's going to have to do a year of press junket or whatever. and in some ways she's like casting her partner. Oh, that's good. Who's going to be my co-star in the Rachel reality empire that comes in the year after this?

Speaker AI don't know. Just my feelings about her, she seems like a pretty, she's like, I've already gone back to work. There are people that do The Bachelor and then launch their fitness empire. There's one couple where she was a dancer and he was like a personal trainer and they have a company that goes to like parks and does huge fitness classes. And they've like made this company. There's people they get all, like the joke is that they're all sponsored by Sugar Bear Hair Gummies and they're these gummies that have vitamins

to make your hair grow. So like all the women who go on the show get sponsored by this company. So you don't have to work. I think she's someone that like, I think she wants to do her job. Like she's an attorney. She really loves it.

Maxlike she wants to go about about diggy going home without you love diggy i really do but he was such a good fit for her because he had he was smart and he had like they could talk to her about the law and like you know what i mean like yeah yeah he could sort of keep up with her and like i just

Speaker Adon't understand like what did he do wrong i'm so sad this is the season where i'm truly like oh i really like this person so uh alex and merlin who are some favorites that you guys like favorites Like guys that you're either like, oh, they're cute, or I think they would be a good match. Is there anyone that you're like, ooh, I really like this person?

AlexYou go first. I'm all in on Peter. Yeah, yeah.

MaxPeter, who's that? They're all indistinguishable to me, I'm sorry.

AlexHe has a gap tooth. That's the only reason I know.

MaxAnd he's like salt and pepper. What are his traits?

AlexHe is. He has no.

MaxHe loves dogs. Yes, he loves her dog. No, he liked Rachel's dog on camera.

Speaker ASo? she's also the first bachelorette to bring her dog oh what a dog and it's like how has no because they all have dogs like they all these men and women are like i love my dog like how have none of them like brought their dog baby yeah yeah it's like i'm a mama and my baby's my dog and it's like how have and that's like a pretty accurate description of like every other woman that's ever the bachelorette or on the bachelor um but it's like how has no one else brought their dog that's fucking genius like rachel's genius she is so it like hurts how smart she is yeah she's

like i'm gonna bring my dog i'm gonna bring my dog um but it's funny peter reminds me so rachel reminds me of my cousin and peter reminds me of my cousin's husband so i'm like this makes sense in my brain i'm like this makes sense to me because i've seen this already work

Alexhe he feels like uh he he would definitely be to take a term um we like the beta of that relationship he's just gonna go along but he's like all right i'll watch the dog you go to work

Speaker Ahoney right yeah i think with with some of these people like they're truly just looking for like yeah who looks good on my arm or whatever but it seems like with rachel it's gonna be like oh someone who's like actually smart and interesting and i forget what he does but he has like he has a real job like he does a thing he's not like aspiring drummer or occupation while boom or whatever merlin who who is some of your favorites who stood out to you oh i don't know but is it so is it just like none of them were like appealing at all to you

like even on even on just like oh they have chemistry or he's hot or whatever

Alexwho did you think was hottest Merlin

Merlinum the thing is I don't see race

Speaker BI'm looking

MerlinI'm looking at this page and first of all tons of spoilers on this page with all their faces they really I'm scrolling and it's like it's like it's like that guy with the purple hat is hypnotizing with his rings all of these people look exactly the same to me I think one guy had a brother who was heavy there's a lawyer um i oh my god you know oh yeah diggy i did like did diggy have a pink bow tie yes oh i like diggy why did diggy go i liked him we don't know we don't know i think he was too

normal yeah diggy lives in chicago and like can i be can i be uh for once can i be the turd in the punch bowl here the guy with the speaking spanish and then mackinon her and the big frenching like why did why did she pick him because she was wet she was yeah you mean when her basement

Alexyeah yeah her basement was flooded yeah no i mean don't die style a bibliotech that would be her vagina and vulva bits she said specifically that she likes really confident guys

Maxwho just sort of like i think the exact quote max was i loved how you just took control of the conversation is one thing she loved but but she does she likes that that's a valid thing to like and he was very forward right and there's a lot of maneuvered her and there's a lot of like

Speaker Avery powerful women like in their professional life that in their personal life they're kind of

Maxjust like take care of me but in the same for men all these like all these like um wolf of wall street bankers they love to get their balls smashed by prostitutes on Madison Avenue that's a huge thing right and so like for me like that's that document what was the documentary um tickled the the Enron The guy who did NRS Smartest?

MerlinSmartest guy in the ball sack?

MaxHis Wall Street one. Oh, shit. That one. Yeah, that one, right. There was interviews with very high-powered prostitutes on Madison Avenue, and they're like, all these executives come in after trading people's debt back and forth and ruining the U.S. economy, and they just want their balls to be smashed. They all want to be abused and pissed on. and it's like they have so much power and they know that in their heart that they don't deserve it that then their like fetish

is that it comes out that they want to be like dominated.

Speaker AAnd I think like for women like on a personal level and I can say because I relate to that of like oh I just I want to have I'm making decisions all day at my job. I'm making like a lot of very important decisions. I want to go home and someone to take care of it and like make the decisions and like that's a sign of like oh this guy is not like he's not on his heels about everything asking my permission asking like is this okay like whatever you know but and just like he will take care of me take care of things

like I will feel good and like there's guys she also is very like there's been some bachelorettes where they're like oh no I want I need to feel this attraction like I need to feel like I am like horny for this guy which is what happened with caitlin when she slept with nick before it was approved like she was just like oh i'm we've had a couple drinks i'm having a lot of fun i want to go home and keep keep having fun and rachel's a normal human like a normal human and there's been dates where like rachel's like hugged a guy and then you can tell she goes in for the kiss

like she's not waiting for these guys to kiss her like if she's feeling it she's gonna kiss and she's kissed like on the first night or not the first maybe the second episode she'd kissed way more guys like it's you sometimes it is like a big like build up but she's like i'm making out with whoever i want to make out with she's always asking them to take off their shirts and like all the dates have been like very objectifying in a way that like i find very satisfying because there is like a big imbalance of like the bachelor dates will be like you're gonna do a mommy relay

race and she and so in this season it's like oh no you're gonna do a daddy relay race and at the into that relay race, you're going to mud wrestle. Like, I want to see them butts.

AlexI've got some questions about mouth sounds. Yep. They really like getting in there and hearing the slurps and slaps. So you think they got a shotgun or a

Maxlaugh? They're using a super car

Alextoy. But how do they screen for face herpes? Like what happens if a guy gets a cold sore? They don't.

Speaker AGood question. Well, I also know in the fantasy suites, they do not provide you with condoms. What? Why? There's no condoms in the fantasy suite. Also, how do you know? Like is it? Like people who have been on the show, in the fantasy suite. That's the follow-up to No Sex in the Champagne Room, the Chris Rock single.

AlexYou get all the alcohol. They should have a suite of sex toys and like this.

Speaker AYou either have to like, you either have to like bring it yourself or like prep yourself beforehand. I don't know what kind of health screenings or whatever, but I do know

Maxthere are no... Is the logic that it's like, oh, if we give them condoms, we're like encouraging them to have sex?

Speaker AYeah, that's probably something like that. There's probably some weird... That's worked out.

MaxYeah, statistically that works.

Speaker AYeah, and there's probably also some weird logic or law of like you can't.

MerlinI believe in the abstinence-only fantasy.

Speaker AIf you're like putting someone on camera and you give them a condom, like it's technical. And I mean a lot of like their headquarters are probably based in California. Like I'm sure there's some weird California. Like we've dealt with porn shoots law that you can't, you know. Oh, interesting. I don't know. This is purely speculation, but I wonder if there's some weird thing of like having condoms on set makes it this versus this. Um, but I do, yeah, they are not given condoms in the fantasy suite. So you have, I guess you have to bring them or just like,

cause they can't like go to Walgreens. Right. They never have that, which I would love if they were in the aisle. Like, well, I like the Trojan X.

MerlinI heard if you douche with Dr. Pepper, you don't get pregnant.

MaxToday's group date is going to get the morning after pill. They're going there on horseback.

MerlinHey, Ali. Ali, if people like what you had to say and they want to find you on the internet, where would you like people to find you?

Speaker AYes, you can follow me on Twitter at WTFlanksteak and read my recaps on vulture.com. Right now I'm doing Claws and The Bachelor. I want to see Claws. And it's very fun. And I will be doing Boy Band, ABC's Boy Band reality show. I will also be recapping. And I should be recapping the next season of Empire and How to Get Away with Murder. Oh, yay!

MaxYou can find Allie's best writing in all of the new Cards Against Humanity products that's out on the market.

Speaker AAnd I also recap Real Housewives of Atlanta. so be on the lookout for all of those

Merlinexcellent thanks for joining us

Speaker Athis was fun yes thanks for having me

30. There's No Condoms in the Fantasy Suite 0:00 / 01:13:22