Do By Friday
Episode 12 artwork
Episode 12 · January 27, 2017 · 01:00:35

12. Here Comes the Gum Man

This week's challengeRun Rescue Time.
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Tap a timestamp or any sentence to play from there · machine transcribed (mlx:mlx-community/whisper-large-v3-turbo), expect mistakes

AlexThis is Do By Friday, the weekly challenge podcast with Merlin Mann, Alex Cox and Max Temkin. This week's challenge, Run Rescue Time.

So Max has just entered the room and I'm a little bit concerned. He looks hungover and sad.

MaxI'm just getting sick. Or I think I might be sick. I feel horrible. Are we almost done? Let's go. Sorry, I'm sorry I'm late again, guys.

AlexYou really got to keep track of your time, Merlin.

MerlinI got to get more productive.

MaxThis week it's Amazon's fault. I ordered a big thing of orange juice with extra pulp. I ordered a high pulp orange juice from Amazon Prime now. And they made me add a bunch of other stuff to the order. So I had enough to actually order. So I made them also bring me a lot of LaCroix. and I think it was because I made them deliver a bunch of heavy cans. Instead of bringing it in an hour, they brought it in three hours.

MerlinOh, are you going to be okay? That's terrible. I can't believe you

Maxhad to live through that. I've got my pulp. I can't quite reach it now. I'm having

Merlina tough morning too. I was on Amazon Prime. All I want to buy, I just want to buy, I just want in two hours, I would like somebody to bring me a new mesh strainer for my house and I can't find one that I like. What do you usually add? So you add LaCroix's. Wow, that Yeah, I can see why they would. I top mine off with, well, sometimes I top it off with 40 pounds of kitty litter, and they do not like that.

MaxThe guy was not, he wasn't thrilled when he showed up to my house with like six boxes of LaCroix and an orange juice. Oh, and then I added flowers for Veronica. Oh, that's so sweet.

MerlinHoney, I thought of you. I had to top off an order.

MaxWell, I'm not going to tell her that part. I have done that many times. I guess she'll be impressed until she hears this.

MerlinI feel horrible

MaxYou don't sound very good, Max You sound like you might be getting sick This better be the worst of it It hit me so fast It was like late last night I was like, ooh, I'm getting sick And then I woke up in the middle of the night I was having fever dreams about Donald Trump This is all since last night? It was since like late last night Oh my god, you are sick I felt a little dicey Yesterday but I thought maybe it was just like the weather was a little shitty. It was rainy.

But I think I'm sick. Oh, God. All my joints are very hot. And my eyelids are so hot. Do you guys get that? My legs, they feel so heavy. You sound like you got the flu, buddy. I stood in the shower for like an hour this morning. I don't think so. I don't think I got the flu. Nothing's coming out of me.

AlexI feel like I should just slowly back away from the table.

MaxIt's not the flu. You'd know if you had the flu because you'd be really sick and you'd be throwing up and stuff.

MerlinYeah, you'd know if you're sick. You should work from home, Alex. Don't you love that phrase? That's one of those phrases like self-care. Whenever anybody says it, I just assume they're masturbating. I'm working from home today. Hey, listen, before I come in, can I work from home? Sure. I'm going to do some self-care.

You learn a lot about yourself when you go to primenow.amazon.com because you see shop past purchases and it invites you to buy things you bought before.

MaxYou know what's terrifying to me is that when Trump talks about his doing his like, oh, we're going to like figure out the dangerous people and deport them. He's essentially using the same computer algorithms and the same logic that Amazon and online ads use to sell you things where it's like, they're like, oh, this guy bought a microwave oven. He loves microwave ovens. We should advertise lots of microwave ovens to him.

MerlinPeople who bought microwave ovens also bought microwave ovens.

MaxIt's like, here's 12 other microwave ovens that you might want to buy.

MerlinI still can't get over what a dumb glitch that is. You just purchased the kind of item someone buys every 15 years. Would you like to buy another? That's so strange.

MaxLet's see, I'm looking through my-

MerlinYou think that's the kind of logic he's bringing to bear?

MaxWell, what else is there? It's not like there's some secret smart computer technology that the government has that billion dollar startups don't. It's like they're using the same shitty, you know, riddled with human error programming that everyone else does. All I buy on Amazon, it's very boring, all I buy is LaCroix.

AlexI've mostly got Clorox wipes.

MerlinOh my God. Amazon Fresh has $5 lobster tails.

AlexWhat? Wait, what's Amazon Fresh?

MaxOh, that's the grocery delivery service.

AlexOh, we don't have that here yet.

MaxBounce outdoor fresh fabric softener sheets. I think that's a racket. I don't think those. Do you need those? Yes. The fabric softener sheets? Yes, yes, yes, yes. You put them in your shoes.

MerlinDon't put them in your laundry. That's for suckers. You don't put a dry sheet in the thing? We have people do that. So when you do your clothes, you like to soften them up with a little sheet. Is that what you do? Is that bad for the environment, Alex?

AlexI don't know. Well, afterwards, my cat plays with them.

MerlinAw.

AlexI don't know. but I know when I have forgotten to put one in because my clothes just don't smell right.

MerlinI think you might be Roderick Usher. I think you seem very sensitive to your environment. How could you be sitting next to that very, very sick man?

AlexOh, no, he is as far across the table as possible.

MaxDo you guys have like a metallic taste in your mouth?

MerlinYeah, also my eyelids are kind of hot.

AlexMy joints are just burning.

Merlinhave you taken anything for max apart from your pulpy uh orange juice or have you taken any kind

Maxof uh i mean i didn't want to say but well i took uh i did not take the clariton d today because i

Merlinwant to sleep when i'm done with this have you been cutting back on powders is there an explanation

Maxbecause you know you really want to pack those in i'm having as many powders as i as i can pass as one man can eat but uh i took uh what did i take i took two ibuprofen at eight in the morning and I have to wait.

AlexOh, no. You're good to take some out.

MaxOne more hour. No, you can't take them every four hours.

AlexNo, no, no. But that's Tylenol. Tylenol can kill you. Ibuprofen is fine.

MaxI heard that This American Life where it'll explode your heart.

AlexThat's Tylenol. Ibuprofen's fine.

MaxI follow the bottle. I follow the bottle. It says you take two every six hours.

AlexAre you in an ibuprofen overdoser, Merlin? I always take three.

MerlinI so cannot even talk. Hang on. Okay, right here next to the nose trimmer. You know, I don't want to talk about it, but yes. Yes. Someone once told me on some terrible day in the early 1990s, a person I knew who was a nurse says that four is a therapeutic dose. It goes through my head.

AlexWow.

MerlinNow my liver is about the size of one of those little red rubber playground balls. I can kind of feel it. It's just right there. Hello, liver.

Speaker AHello. It hurts. Are you okay, man? I'm all right.

MerlinDo you think it's a good idea for me to have those after I've had all those drinks? It's not the best thing. You okay, buddy?

AlexI'm all right.

MerlinNo, seriously, Max, you sound very, very sick. Max, are you the kind of person who gets a flu shot?

MaxI've actually never gotten a flu shot. Me neither. Not really any. I can't. I don't recommend. I know it's irresponsible. I just like I don't 100% know where to go or what the procedure is. And I've also heard like you can get sick from getting the flu shot or you can get mildly sick. And it seems like why would I it seems like I've also never had the flu. So why would I risk it?

AlexYou've never had the flu. No. Oh, you are so, so lucky.

MaxUnless I haven't now. But I think I know you think you know if you had the flu, right?

MerlinI don't know if you know if you have the flu. I mean, somebody go that get that sick that fast and you're feeling heavy. Are you you're achy? Are you achy?

MaxOh, my toes hurt. Everything hurts.

MerlinOh, no. And hot lids. Hot lids, hot joints. I don't know, buddy. I think you might have you a little bit of flu.

AlexBecause you can have different strains of flu. You can have the stomach flu or the heavy eyelid flu. There's many, many types. I prefer the 48-hour version where there's stuff coming out of every orifice of your body, but then it's done, and it's like a cleanse.

MaxCan I do a follow-in?

AlexYes, please.

MaxI got a little story from Rolling Stone. So this was from this week. This is about our Vice President, Mike Pence. So they had this great story about him. While Mike Pence was governor, his relationship with the Democratic minority in the legislature was crap. Someone on his staff suggested having the Democratic leaders over to the governor's mansion for dinner. The table was set for 20, but there was only around 7 in attendance. One unlucky legislator stuck next to Pence, tried to make conversation, but found even at dinner that she couldn't shift Pence off his talking points.

Governor Pence shouted to his wife, Karen, his closest advisor at the other end of the table. Mother, mother, who prepared our meal this evening? The legislators looked at each other, speaking with their eyes. He just called his wife mother. Maybe it was a joke, the legislator reasoned. But a few minutes later, Pence shouted again, mother, mother, whose china are we eating on?

MerlinWhat? What? The mother thing is odd, but the, like, detachment from healthy. He sounds like lemon grab. He doesn't know where food comes from.

So was mother able to share with him? How would he not know who prepared the meal? Is this a Gilmore Girls situation? Are they just firing maids every day? Like, what's happening?

MaxI don't know. That was the whole anecdote. But he's just such a weird alien man.

AlexI still I'm still like I would rather have Pence be president Don't worry it won't be long I still

MerlinThat's the conspiracy theory I believe

MaxThere's no conspiracy It's the dumbest possible thing is happening And there's no meaningful Way to oppose it or slow it down Oh no no

MerlinHe'll do horrible things He's going to ruin many lives

MaxBut I'm just saying there's no conspiracy Where this was some way to sneak Pence in there and then they're going to cut Trump. Trump is powerful, very powerful right now.

AlexI don't think it's a conspiracy.

MaxI don't think they want to work with him, though.

AlexThey don't have a choice.

MaxI'm telling you, he is very powerful. No one, the Republicans, the Democrats, the problem is there's no coalition that can be built that's more powerful than Trump.

AlexBut he's getting really sad about all the coverage.

MaxSad or not. I mean, it's like, don't you think he was sad about Pussygate? And that didn't slow him down. What was that?

AlexThe press conference. I'm obsessed with this.

MerlinI don't want to make fun of him because he's having a hard time right now. I mean, right when he should be at his height. I mean, is it so hard? Is it so hard? When he gets something right, can't you just say he got something right? Do you know how much you're hurting the president with these remarks?

AlexOh, my God. It's the little things.

MaxI have a little Sean Spicer follow in as well.

AlexYes, please. All right.

MaxThis is another one. This is from the Washington Post style section. Did a little thing about Sean Spencer. They did not go into why he wears a suit that makes him look like a tiny little turtle man. My theory is that every time he lies, his head gets smaller and the suit is actually tailored. He's got reverse Pinocchio syndrome. Yeah. He's turning into a Zika baby every time he lies. All right. So this is from the Washington Post style section. This is the face of today's Republican Party. The nose is pinched. The hair is sandy blonde.

the eyes are intense again style section but all you really need to know can be seen in the mouth this is where spicer's talent and nervous energy meet watch it open wide enough to inhale his phone as he yells at an editor behold its versatility as he once chastises trump for calling mexicans rapists and murderers while also lauding him for calling attention to the issue of illegal immigration even when he is not speaking it works on overdrive churning through pieces of orbit cinnamon gum which he chews and swallows whole notwithstanding his line of work the man just

can't stand a gross feeling mouth two and a half packs by noon said Spicer I talked to my doctor

Alexabout it he said it's no problem I I I understand and believe that the explanation is it's Trump's or everything is like it's it's always the simplest answer but like the they're all such fucking weirdos and I know like every politician has their own like cute quirks but like the I don't

Maxknow it's just so weird two packs of cinnamon orbits gum every day you're not supposed to eat

Alexthe gum uh i i was a strange child i i never believed in santa but until i was like well into the double digits believe that gum was in my stomach and growing um yeah logic was hard i'd probably do well in the drum administration you don't go you don't go through that much gum

Merlinwithout a little bit of planning if you know the thing is we've all gone through things where we start doing a thing and we maybe aren't entirely aware of it but we're still like accounting for it in our infrastructure this will come up in our topic but like at some point somebody's bringing him a lot of gum or he's causing a lot of gum into his life you know what i'm saying it isn't like whoops you accidentally had any more of that gum i mean he must know what a weirdo he is i i

Alexbet he orders so much that he does not need to add things to his prime order it's just like seven

Merlinpounds seven pounds of gum or a bit cinnamon gum let me see here if i can get it i might get some $5 lobster tails and some Spicer gum. Oh, you get a 12-pack. Max, you could have a 12-pack in two hours for $7.56.

MaxDo you think you'd feel good if you ate two packs? Let's just say that I got two packs of cinnamon gum and I just chewed it up and ate it. Is this a challenge? This could be a great challenge. It's a challenge. The Sean Spicer challenge. Because I'm not going to do that, but I speculate that I would feel very bad. Like, I think you'd feel nauseous and bad.

MerlinOh, I totally agree. I chew a fair amount of, what is my brand? I think Trident, like bubble gum flavored bubble gum with the xylitol. I'm not crazy about the xylitol. You can't get decent bubble gum anymore. Don't get me started. But like if I, I can't tell you the last time I swallowed gum. It's been years. But every time I do, I feel like a Catholic. I get a sick dread in my soul that I've just done something extremely bad. I mean, it's the same when you're a little kid. You don't swallow gum. You don't break a mirror. You know what I'm saying? It's just one of those things. And it's just like, I can't imagine doing that on purpose.

Now, you're a big gum man.

MaxI'm a big gum man, yeah. What are the performance characteristics of a good sticky gum?

MerlinOh, that's a good question. You know, sometimes you just want to change a pace. For me, gum is often an afternoon thing. So, like, as you know, I'm always trying to balance my stimulants. And so, like, I'll have some coffee. A lot of times if it's later in the afternoon, I've got to pick up my kid and not seem like a zombie. I'll have a little bit of that tea that I like. and then when I'm walking to school, I'll have three small sticks of gum, but I would never swallow them. What do I look for in a gum? You know, I would love to see a bubble yum or similar, but they just don't make it anymore. They just don't make – I think if they made sugary gums,

it would be like throwback Mountain Dew, like only freaks would buy it. You know what I'm saying? Like I think it's got to have the xylitol or it just wouldn't sell. That's a tragedy. Who knows? Who knows? It starts with an X. I mean, is that something you want in your body? Now, what do you guys do? Do you guys chew gum?

AlexListerine strips all the way. Oh, a car wash. I love those. Yeah, it's like a car wash for your mouth. Because I've got the constant post-nasal drip, and it makes my mouth smell like a garbage heap. So, yeah, love the Listerine strips. I wonder, because you're essentially kind of eating the ingredients of gum when you have those dissolve in your mouth. I wonder.

MaxHave you ever eaten too many of the Listerine strips or Tic Tacs or some sort of candy like that that's slightly abrasive and made yourself really sick. Because I do that, if I go to a movie and I have some sort of candy, I will eat it all, no matter what it is. So I've eaten a whole Sour Patch Kids at the movie theater, and I burnt a hole in my tongue. I was in a lot of pain by the end of the movie.

All right, we're good? Are we good?

Alexthis has been a great episode you guys I am going to go take a bath

Maxdone some good work here

Merlinwe don't have too much follow up of consequence I just wanted to say Max you received many plaudits and nice remarks from people sometimes you like to read things aloud on the podcast you read some nice things on the last program people like that our friend Fred from the internet particularly I think he was very moved by what you had to say about Twitter and deciding not to argue with people

Maxand whatnot. Thank you. I'm proud to report that I'm back in the game at fighting weight. I'm in there yelling at people, correcting everyone, right back into the arena. I feel awesome. I wake up every morning and I'm full of energy and I go on and tell everyone to suck my balls. One by one, I look at all the replies overnight and I go, suck my balls, suck my balls, suck my balls. At Real Donald Trump, suck my balls. It's the discourse. I'm going to share something I'd like to share with you. Listen, this is the resistance, Merlin. You know what?

We have to rise up and tell everyone to suck our balls.

AlexI wonder. I need an equivalent.

MaxJust say suck my balls.

AlexIt's non-gen.

MaxIt doesn't mean anything.

AlexNo, but I want like eat my cervix or something. It's like real up there. Because I assume that ball sucking is unpleasant.

Maxuh so it's like you gotta get away you gotta really put your back into it yeah um yeah listen i have a theory can i run a theory by you guys that i came up with while i was sort of feverish in the shower i was thinking a lot about why the internet is so bad and here's my theory and i'm curious if this holds up to any scrutiny because like obviously there's a lot of like academic theories of like groups and psychology and what happens on twitter and design incentives and etc etc etc there's all this I think peace is flying around about why the internet is bad

here's my theory that might be maybe this may be like like a feverish hallucination of an idea you guys can correct me so let's just say for about the first 10 years of its existence in order to go on the internet you had to be both rich and smart because you had to have a lot of stuff that was very specialized and expensive and then it was really hard to use so you had to be really smart to go on and do it. Then the technology got a little better and you had about 10 more years where you didn't have to be as rich, but you still had to be smart to go online.

And now we're ending 10 years of you don't have to be smart or rich to go online. Just everyone can go online. And this is everyone. This is it. There's no greater explanation needed. It's just that when people look at the quote unquote good old days of the internet, they were only talking to other smart and or rich people right this seems to get really close to make the internet great again territory no i mean there's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube right i think it's the same as like i think it's the same as any technology where it's like you know for a while

uh the only people who could read were like priests and philosophers and so all the people who were contributing to the written word were geniuses and then everybody learned how to read and you got like porn, right? Like it just got dumb.

AlexThat is like factually correct. But I think like different things like, okay, Twitter. Our friend Melody Kramer like made a point of like, you know, like only 16% of Americans are on Twitter. And there are places on the internet that are delightful and nice still. Well, no, because Vine is gone. But I think that there, there's the whole argument then of like gatekeeping and remember app.net um i don't know

rest in peace yeah that what an exciting service that everybody got into well i mean i i i i feel

Merlinsomewhat sensitive to how i mean i i think your observation is actually not very far off it brings with it a certain amount of value and classism in some ways but i don't think that makes it untrue

AlexNo, it's totally true.

MerlinWell, I think another way to look at it, well, I mean, to put it in a slightly more limp-wristed way, there was a time where you had to be a dork. I don't know if you had to be rich. You had to be at a university. You had to have a job in government. You had to be somebody of status to get on the Internet. And, yes, you did have to be smart. Not smart in a first approximation, but in the sense of you had to have the kind of job or position that mostly only smart people get into. So I think, you know, again, I'm sorry that sounds classist, but I think you are right.

Here's the other part. You had to have the equipment. You had to have the access. You had to have the intelligence or proxy intelligence. But then you know what else? Like, how do you find anything? Right. Someone had to tell you about the BBS. Well, right. I mean, for me, it was, yeah, before the internet, it was BBSs. But what I'm trying to get out here is that it used to be that I think you had to rely heavily on talking to people in real life, eventually to friends online. But even then, if you found the most popular thing in the world, what, 10,000 people know about it?

It's still not that big. Flash forward 20 years, and what you've got is, well, you show up at the Verizon store and get your phone, and basically you get a broken lawn chair next to the shittiest parade ever. Because there's these three things that everybody does. I think it hasn't come full circle. It's become full shit show. Like, you know, hey, here's your Facebook device.

Try not to be awful. And then, you know, does that make sense? Yeah. Nobody's going to be like, hey, tell me more about this Metafilter. What is that? And you're like, ah, don't worry. Come back to Facebook. You're good.

AlexI well for the longest time though like Facebook was the internet for many many people just like AOL was the internet for many many people so I don't think I feel like we've been in this place where dumb people have had access to the internet for a very very long time so I think there are just tools to it's easier for them to amplify their voices well at least they had to learn

Maxhow to type that's good yeah yeah here's the here's the thing about being rich you it doesn't make you a good it does not make you a good person if you're rich but rich people learn rich people learn the rules of society and they learn how to fake it even if they're a horrible person like donald trump even you know knows how to navigate a dinner party in a way that's where he speaks the code of of rich people i remember when i was growing up i had a rich friend daniel and my rich and Daniel went to a special class over the summer where they taught him like rich people things like

which fork to eat which food with at a dinner and that and it blew my mind like they used to send girls to charm school yeah yeah but this was just for rich kids to learn how to like be a little you know little Lord Fauntleroy and it was like little Lord Fauntleroy's finishing school for obnoxious and North Shore rich kids but and then he would always tell me like at lunch in the cafeteria or whatever, he'd be like, oh, you're like, have your spoon on the wrong side or whatever. Like there was always some bullshit that he could tell someone that they were doing wrong. So my only point is that there's this like somewhat arbitrary set of codes and signals that we've

decided make you well-mannered and rich people know those codes and signals. So if they're all talking to each other online, they don't have to be smart or nice. They just have to obey the codes and signals and the appearance of the discourse will be more civilized. Like no rich person is going to go on a BBS and be like, suck my balls, suck my balls, suck my balls, I'm out. my new thing is my my new thing alex is that i don't know if you've seen this from the cards

account when people tweet us obnoxious things at cards against humanity uh if it's men especially I reply back with their picture, their avatar. So I save their avatar and then I reply back with a picture of their face. And that's the last time they ever talk. Because they're trying to be like a tough guy, but they're always some gawky fat kid with glasses, you know, berating us for being social justice warriors or whatever. And I just reply back with their picture and they leave us alone.

MerlinI don't know. I live in a bubble and I have very little exposure outside of my bubble in many ways. And I mean particularly in terms of like the location where I live and the people that I see. And then I don't know. I guess I spent a lot of time maybe after my daughter was born. I was spending more and more time in the bubble. And now when we leave the bubble and we go to somewhere outside the bubble, the world looks really different. Like it used to be everybody looked like the lump in proletariat always seemed like it used to be like, you know, kind of like Hank Hill people.

And now, like, every guy is like an angry motorcycle guy with a goatee. Have you noticed this? Do you guys get this? Do you get, like, everybody's got sleeveless shirts and they're into motorcycles now? There's a new kind of, like, manicure toughness to American men. It feels very on the edge of hostility a lot of the time. And I feel like it's become, I guess part of the reason I mention this is being in that bubble long enough to notice the difference when I go places,

is that it really does feel like the new American aesthetic. For a long time it felt like, you know, the Merchants of Cool type mooks. And now it seems like everybody wants to look like somebody's 55-year-old uncle.

MaxThis stuff, I think this stuff comes and goes in waves, and it's always this, like, interplay of, like, whatever the old, you know, to me, like, when I see the guys, the tough guys with, like, soul patches and, you know, like tough guy, you know, like looks that they're really trying to rep like a tough guy look. It's like older middle-aged guys. And it's that their bodies are declining and they've lost their cultural relevance. And they're a completely narcissistic baby boomer generation. And, you know, there's nothing like a narcissist, like going through a midlife crisis and recognize their

own mortality. Well, that's the end of the world. Because if all that is the world is your own experience like when you die you take the whole world with you so i think we would all become sort of like tough guy you know apocalyptic like mad max bikers if we were part of that mindset yeah

Merlinfeels like there's a lot of pressure i mean target parking lots feel a lot more hostile than they used to is there anything that could bring together bring america together like a target

Alexparking lot you know that's the one thing that is the same in the chicago suburbs and in downtown

Merlinthe feds are coming in so enjoy it while you can yep yep what does that mean what does it even mean what what the which what feds like who what what do you even know what number you call to send feds

Maxwell presumably presumably presumably the the feds are going to come i mean the problem is there's too much gun crime and we can't get under control presumably the feds are going to come and

Merlincontrol the guns you know this you know they should have sent the feds in a long time ago I wonder how Alex Jones will feel about that. I saw an interview with him. I told you guys. I saw an interview with him on, I guess there's a show I didn't know about on HBO about the Vice people. And the Vice people had an interview with him. I thought it was super interesting.

AlexIt was an interview with him? Does he believe his own bullshit?

MerlinWell, this is what I almost want to save this for a topic at some point. But we talked about this in texting. And we probably don't have time to get into a thing. But I'm becoming very, very fascinated by Alex Jones. He insists that his shtick is real. Can we get him on the show? I don't know. I mean, we're no Daily Show-O. We don't have their kind of numbers. No, we're not pulling down Daily Show-O numbers. But, you know. But, I mean, I don't know how you watch that and see somebody in a studio like that and think that, I don't know.

I mean, I think it's got to be largely. I'm not saying he's not a conservative man. I'm not saying that. but like it's such a bit I mean don't you think I don't know though because like for for years

Alexwatching Glenn Beck it was like okay no this isn't real it's isn't real and it turned out it mostly wasn't real like that fucking chalkboard but it's not like this guy you know Fox News doesn't want to have anything to do with him he started his own website it's it's like does he have anything um to gain I feel like he's reached his peak popularity um with with like the trump audience like now but before he had nothing to gain from being this crazy like and now now he does uh because he can he has this whole new treasure trove of alt-right kids but

before it was like why why have that persona because he's always been like this it's not

Merlinlike he's ramped ramped up or anything but he's very he's very entertaining oh yeah no here's what i'm trying to get at is like i'm i'm not trying to sound naive i mean i think he knows and he is on purpose having a certain kind of effect and an impact and it builds his brand and his audience and stuff. Like, I'm not that stupid, but do you think he actually really can't control his anger? Do you think he's actually, do you think he has moments where he feels very chaste and says, wow, I was a little over the top about that 9-11 thing?

AlexI think that's a different question. Like, I think there's obviously an element of performance, but I do think he believes everything he says.

MaxWhen I was an undergrad, we had all these speakers would come to the school and give a talk. And one of the things was they would come have dinner at the president's house, at the president of the college's house. And occasionally I would get invited or asked to be invited to the dinner. And like for the last years of when I was an undergrad, I was in student government. So I knew like the college president, I could somehow weasel my way into these dinners. And it was usually a bunch of students and a bunch of faculty and everyone would sort of mingle and have cocktails. And it was sort of a lame cocktail party with, you know, whatever, you know, author was touring through doing a book tour and we got

to come speak at the college or whatever. But one time Karl Rove came and he was one of the big speakers of the semester. And there was like protests and Code Pink came and was like disrupting it and students tried to stop it. And I was just like, you know, but this was post Obama, you know, I'd already done, done the campaign and I was, I was already working in politics and I was like, you know, Karl Rove is like almost the defining like adversary. Like I view him, he doesn't know who the fuck I am, of course, but I view him as like almost the defining adversary of my life. And almost every thing in my life can be traced that has motivated me to do the things that I do

and be the person I am comes down to Karl Rove and hating George W. Bush and hating the war in Iraq and hating the whole tone of their White House and the dishonesty and the bullshit of it all and the falseness of it all. And I was like obsessed with like, I was like, I have to meet this guy and find out it does he truly believe in what he has to say or is he full of shit does he know that he's full of shit and he knows that it's false and so I went to dinner with him and it was me and a bunch of other students and all the other students were these like you know political science like like international relations kids and they had come to this dinner with the

idea they like studied up for the dinner with Karl Rove and we were eating our like chicken cutlets or whatever and everyone was trying to like trip him up like they were all trying to take him on you know like these like sophomore poli-sci students trying to catch Karl Rove and like a logical fallacy and obviously it was he fucking first of all he fucking loved it he was I thought maybe it would be like obnoxious like oh he gets this all the time and he just wants to like talk about sports or whatever but no he fucking loved it he like dug in and just he danced circles around them he embarrassed them he made them he he just owned them so hard

rhetorically logically with facts that he made up on the spot like it was also like like didn't lose his cool no he was laughing the whole time it was that was his the source of his power was that they were so serious and he wasn't serious at all and but he still won the debate and i asked and at one point i asked him like then there was like just mingling and talking and i got just a minute to talk to him and i was like you know i was like to what extent is is it just politics that you know some of the ridiculousness of of the administration or or is everyone there like truly committed to the cause and he gave me the most like shit eating like I'm in on the joke

grin I have ever gotten in my life and he goes of course we believe it I mean the man went on family guy like well I'm just saying like I I don't I my my only takeaway from this whole experience was I think the distinction between being authentic and being motivated for the right reasons and being pure of heart. I think that's more more like a like a lame liberal concern that we obsess over. And I think conservatives care more about winning. You know, they view the world more in terms of of strength and discipline and the right things, having authority and being on

top. And and and, you know, it's like, who cares if you're doing it for the right reason, if you get the right results? That's why Trump is such a perfect fucking snake for them, because he know he's transparently false he transparently doesn't give a shit he's everything they hate but he's a winner and they can ride that into victory and it infuriates us like we obsess over we sit there like correcting the spelling in his tweets like you know we embarrass we're just like wet our pants

Merlinthis is why also i mean i mentioned um because i can't not think of this as pro wrestling or if you like theater is another way to think of this is that i mean i remember when i was really into wrestling when I was about 12 years old, someone I knew saying, you know, I've been backstage at those things. The wrestlers all sit around in their underpants playing cards. And not only are they not trying to hurt each other, but they rehearse the things that they're going to do so that they don't actually hurt each other. I know that's not a perfect analogy, but it's why, for

example, I can't see in the past, I can't see Ann Coulter and increasingly today Kellyanne Conway as anything but a pro wrestler. We're like, their whole bit is to make you kind of hate them unless you're on their side and love them for who they are. And to me, this is also where it shades into theater, and it shades into the thing that liberals don't get.

MaxBut you love them because they're winding up liberals. If you're on their side, you know that you're supposed to know, if you see Kellyanne Conway and she appeals to you, I think the appeal is you know that she's full of shit, and she's winding liberals up, and they're going nuts, and you're like, yeah, that's awesome.

MerlinYeah, and whereas you might hate being a 55-year-old man that's being yelled at by a 20-year-old kid who's your manager at Walmart, you get to go home and watch somebody who never loses their cool as they defend this world that you believe should be a certain way. Boy, that doesn't seem very difficult for me to understand. That makes a lot of sense from that point of view. And here's the other thing. We talked a bit about this with regard to Twitter, and I was repeating that quote about how whoever cares more in an argument online will tend to lose. Think about being an actor.

Now, on the face of it, being in theater, on the face of it, it seems like whoever could get the angriest would be the best actor. Because, but you know, just because you're somebody who can get really angry does not make you a good actor. You have to be somebody who understands stage presence. You have to understand, you have to know how to read. You have to know all of these different things in performing. And you have to be comfortable assuming many, many different roles and dealing with all these different changes. It's the difference between an angry guy and a great actor. And that's one thing that we don't get sometimes, is we end up going, you guys.

and we think that that's persuasive and it's not. What's persuasive is Kellyanne Conway sitting there and saying things that are patently untrue and being totally cool about it. She's tearing it up.

MaxAll that shit that Trump does before he comes on to do an event where he has the red hat and a glass case or he has a bunch of blank papers sitting on the table like they're documents. So we all make fun of that but it's so fucking brilliant. It's like it makes the news cameras stay on the conference for before it even starts because they're like And all the people are speculating what's in the documents. It sets an image in your mind so you can remember the event beyond what Trump says. And it's very good communication. It's the kind of stuff I always come up with to do on political campaigns that I'm like, wouldn't this be like a good sneaky thing to do?

Like kind of, you know, coy, like clever thing to do. And everyone above me always says, no, we don't do that. Like that's not classy. That's like not reputable.

MerlinWell, if you can't pull it off, you end up sounding like Marco Rubio. Right. Where you're like, you're somebody who spent this entire career trying to build up a certain kind of reputation. and then one time you try to make a dick joke and you sound like an idiot well and the problem is

Maxmarco rubio he has trump has no shame so he can i was just gonna say yeah so he trump can get away with this because he can do ridiculous things and he has no shame rubio is nothing but shame he hates

Alexhimself well real real quick though i'm wondering max do you think that like trump has these stunts like the pile of papers like is he coming up with this or is it his staff like who's the smartest

MaxI 100% guarantee you that's Trump. Is he smart enough to be? Yes, yes, yes. That's the only way that he's smart. He has brilliant, brilliant instincts. He's so smart.

MerlinDo you think he's also the one who always requires an opening act? Like, it's so strange to me. It's so far in his appearances. He keeps having his little flavor flay of Mike Pence come out before him as his hype man. Do you think that's a Trump thing, too, that he wants to have two or three? It's like when I see a punk rock band, you got to sit through two local bands before the headliner gets there.

MaxHe did it before his rallies. He had at his rallies, he had this kid come out. I can't remember his name, but he was like a low-level policy staffer on the Hill before he started working with Trump. And he'd come out and he'd wave his arms around and gesticulate and scream and yell and get all red and sweaty and spittle would fly out of his face. And he'd give this big Hitler speech and the crowd would go fucking apeshit and they'd all be turned up to a 20. And then Trump would come on stage and he would be even – he would look moderate. you know he would sort of like come out seeming more reasonable in contrast right but the crowd

Alexwould be like foaming at the mouth so i'm so okay so if trump has these instincts like i feel like sean's uh how do you sell is it spicer space i don't know um let's call him sean spisser i'm

Maxdeclaring i'm declaring you know how on lost they have they build the mythology of the show in the mythology of dubai friday his name is sean spisser the gum man he's full of gum His entire body The trunks of his legs Every appendage It's all full of cinnamon gum

MerlinSounds like some kind of a I don't know Like a Polish folk story Like a Gumman Gumman's a coming

Speaker AHave you heard About the gumman His old body is made of gum This piece comes out Of the woods He eats the baby Swallows the cinnamon Swallows the cinnamon

MaxClouds are blowing in The gumman must be a coming Here come the gumman

Alexhis suit is getting larger all right so but sean spisser doesn't like get people riled up and then the way that like conway does so do you think he is long for this world because i have heard that

Maxhe is not okay that seems to be the scuttlebutt is they're very displeased by him he he clearly he obviously does not have the confidence to go out there and just eat shit every day i mean that's Part of why he's so like, he's such a, he's such a, what did, what did Syracuse, he's a cuck. What did Syracuse call your cat? Is he like a, like a Smeagol? He's a Smeagol. He's so, he hates himself so much. He's full of gum.

AlexUgh.

MerlinChallenge, Merlin. Challenge. Last episode, Max took us on a heart-smart journey through not using Twitter, and he had a lot of you guys things to say, and it was really good. And that got me thinking about, I think I mentioned in passing, the app Rescue Time, which I used to run. This is an app that you can run on your Mac that will basically watch what you're doing. It's a somewhat primitive app, but basically it just watches what you do, what web pages you look at, what apps are running.

It has built-in smarts, so it's got an online component, and it runs on your Mac. And basically it knows, thinks, or guesses what kinds of things you're doing, gives it a certain level of how productive it is, and then charts it over time. This is an app that I have liked in the past because you can just turn it on and forget about it. Just do what you do and then just see what the results are. So the challenge this week was to run Rescue Time. And I think the side challenge that mostly Alex and I were doing was, let's also be prepared to talk about any other self-tracking that we're doing,

productivity things, personal and professional tracking. And it sounds like Max was already running it, so he got another easy one this week.

AlexI'm really worried about Max just dying mid-show.

MerlinIs he not looking good?

AlexNot the best. Max is a very handsome and lively looking man. He's not one of those days.

MerlinI would say he's puckish.

AlexOh, one interview.

MaxI'm five minutes away from eating the cinnamon gum and ending it. There was one interview. I'm going to eat two packs of cinnamon gum and just end it all.

AlexMax, do you remember an interview? We can cut this out, but do you remember an interview that described you as cherubic? I do. Talked about your Tom's shoes. Tom's shoes? Yeah, it would, oh, Max, I'm kidding.

MerlinMr. Rubik. You're a baby cuck.

AlexIt seems to be scrubbed from the internet. Anyway, Max, how long have you been, Max, how long have you been running Rescue Time?

MaxLike always.

AlexReally? Do you, can you pull up your dashboard? You don't have to.

MaxI'm doing it, I'm doing it. It just hurts. The computer is cold. How's your eyelids? The metal is so cold. What do I click on? Do you want me to go to my yearly or my monthly or what?

AlexLet's just do weekly or all of the above. Merlin, it's your challenge.

MaxI'll be honest. I'll be honest. I didn't use the computer a lot this week. I was doing meetings and design projects and analog design projects and stuff.

MerlinThat's on my list. Yeah. So, I mean, the basic challenge was to run this and like any of our things, see what's hard or easy about the challenge. But also, in as much as you're interested, and again, I think this might mostly be Alex and me. I also just want to talk about what happens when you set something to notice what you're doing and then you go look at what it found out. I still, even with something as blunt an instrument as Rescue Time and with some of these other sort of like fitness tracking things that I'm doing, I am frequently very interested in what bubbles up.

Um, so yeah, that's kind of what I want to talk about is like, what do you know, what patterns do you end up noticing that surprise you or that, you know, you find interesting?

AlexI, so, so I ran rescue time for a week. Uh, I found it surprising that my productivity pulse 71, which seems like, okay, but I'm 8% down from the week before, even though I installed it almost exactly at this time one week ago, but all right. um i it was kind of on par with what i expected uh i do like how it says that rescue time is a very productive website like i i ended up checking rescue time as much as i like like it became a

gamification like okay i i not checking twitter not checking twitter but i will check rescue time and see how my stats are for today um and one thing it kind of got me more obsessed with like okay I this is all what I expect because when I go onto my laptop now it is it's not like I open my laptop and like ah let me just putter around like I do on my phone when I open my laptop I have a very specific task in mind and like a list of things to do whereas when I open my phone

it's it's like the introvert tick to just like dick around or whatever so um to to the best of my ability. I was trying to figure out like, okay, how do I track my time on my iOS devices and be more mindful about what I'm doing there? And there are a lot of good services that, I don't want to say good, they're okay and interesting that you recommended. And I also signed up for a ton of stuff that totally tracks like everything about my body, but none of it has two-factor authentication,

Merlinwhich made me feel a little weird. And some require Facebook. Yeah.

AlexI don't know how you live without Facebook only because.

MerlinNo, I have two things that I have to use Facebook for and that's it. But I'm still always worried I'm going to get fucked. But I don't use the service, but I just use it as a login. Yeah, I think I was using this a lot at a time when I was writing as my primary sort of occupation. And I mostly wanted it in some ways like you're describing. We should also mention that this week on Cortex, Mike and Gray talked a lot about time tracking. It was a funny confluence. And they actually talked about, was it Toggle?

Is that the app that you're using?

AlexToggle, I have not started to use Toggle. Initially, I thought it looked like a dumb business thing. And I still think it looks like a dumb business thing, but it feels like rescue time on steroids, and there's a lot more automation. So I just have a...

MerlinIt's got lots of – they make it sound like it has lots of integrations with stuff like Workflow. But anyway, that episode will be in show notes. It's always interesting when Gray and his co-hosts talk about – I think it's very interesting when they talk about productivity stuff. But, you know, it's rescue time. I guess I'd forgotten what a relatively blunt instrument it is. I mean, in my usage of it for a week now – well, to join what you said, Alex – I use my computer a lot less than I used to. Like even like when I'm here, like doing my whatever I do things here at my office and I'm on the computer.

So far I have 22, a total of 22 hours logged for the entire week. Just almost exactly a week. And one day where I didn't use it at all because it was Sunday. But, and because I honor the Lord. But the, but it is, and when I look at the results though, it is a very blunt instrument. I mean, it's pretty good basically at knowing what websites you look at a lot. which is to say, well, let's be clear, which website you have focal. So if you've got six browser tabs open, I think it's mostly recording the focal one.

I'm pretty sure that's true with apps. My top utility thing I use is Finder on OS X. I think this might be a pro feature, but time was you could go in and say, identify when I do files inside this folder, I want that to be recorded as this kind of activity, et cetera. That might be a pro thing. But yeah, basically, it's good at knowing what app I was using of the five apps that I use. And it's good at knowing what website I looked at. But I still, I think to have it hanging over my head as a scold is not a terrible thing.

The idea that this is going to track the bullshit that I'm doing and then make me confront how much time I spent fiddling with task paper or whatever is not a bad thing. So it's far from complete. And then as you're sort of saying here, there is no analog for this. there can't be at this point an analog for this on ios apart from what's available in the system tools right there's nothing that's going to like i don't think there's anything that's going to be able to track what's happening in apps apart from something that apple makes but i still i still think it was pretty interesting i use twitter a lot apparently turns out turns out that's my

Alexbiggest far and away my biggest thing on here i i uh installed what is it moves um the the creepy app that just it's super super cool uh but it's killing my battery life wow that really really

Merlintakes it out of you especially it's such an interesting app but it is really frustrating also there are some places that i go a lot a lot a lot that it doesn't register so you can change the kind of act so the idea with moves is it runs in the background on ios and it says okay well you're at this place you've identified as home you're at this place or house you're at this place you've identified as the office. This is your kid's elementary school. You're there. And it's meant to be recording when you go to places, especially that you go to a lot. The crazy part is sometimes,

I think because I move in such a small area relatively, like it gets confused and it thinks I'm at this place that's near my office. It doesn't always register that I'm at school. But what's neat about that, when I'm looking at, I guess we'll get to this later, is the way you can mash these services together with certain other services I'm very interested to see how like where I am what the weather is what time of day I I want to not think about that for six months but then see what bubbles out of that without me thinking about

Alexdo you know what I mean yeah I feel like there are a lot of conversations now like that are just all the grumpy millennials actually being why why does this data matter who cares and uh I I think it will be useful one day and it's interesting and fun and it is a cool distraction for me um so i i really don't know how useful it is for me right at this moment um like i i actually found some things somewhat interesting like um in the what what is it gyroscope uh yeah like oh uh

exist would be another one i think you're using exist yeah exist is what a creepy name for an app but there's so many like cool things integrate all this stuff. And I think we've talked about this before, but there's really no place for all of this to live. Like I can't have, you know, a folder in Dropbox that has all my health data in a text file. And I think the health app is getting better at that, but I don't know. I really want to do this for like a year and see like, really,

Why is my sleep so terrible? And I'm trying to figure out what's a great way to sort of, I don't know, like maybe mark things in my calendar as a certain kind of meeting and then have that be integrated with exist to be like, okay, you had these sort of stressful meetings today and that's why you slept for two hours.

Merlinum i want to compare that with like you also didn't walk much you had a crappy lunch yeah

Alexand your pulse was this yeah yeah uh oh yeah that's another cool uh what was what's the app it's got a terrible icon uh like my fitness pal or something um that that's one that i think will

Merlinlet you enter food right isn't that one of the ones that'll do food yes um that's a big missing piece right now it's either there's not much food in things or there's so much food choices that it's kind of overwhelming and unless you eat mostly the same thing most days it's sort of trying to like fill all that in i still feel like that's a big missing piece from a lot of these i i yeah

Alexi think it's easier for me because i'm like yeah i had rice and then shotgun to a v8 and uh and and there is like oh you stayed up until 2 a.m because you were eating mcdonald's uh like like Those insights aren't particularly surprising.

But like you said, over a period of months and years, then that gets more and more interesting.

MerlinYeah. I feel like, is Max doing okay?

AlexNo, I want him to go to sleep. I'm good.

MerlinYeah.

AlexYeah.

MaxProductivity. We'll carry this one. The thing is, Merlin, the thing that I've always said is you got it when you get an email you get you open it up you deal with it right away he's getting sicker i can hear it no no i'm getting this is i'm getting stronger i think this is hi i'm i'm

Alexkind of wondering if he's having hallucinations no i had a dream okay so i had a dream

Maxwhere uh extremely vivid where my alarm went off and i woke up and i got in the shower and I was standing under the shower and I was still really cold. Like I couldn't warm up in the shower and then all my teeth fell out. And then I was like, that's crazy. My teeth all fell out. Is this a dream? And then I woke up and I realized that I still needed to wake up and take a shower. Did you have your teeth? Most of them.

MerlinI think it's a sex thing. I think teeth, broken teeth are a sex thing.

MaxYeah, well, you get the vagina dentata.

MerlinThat's tough.

AlexOkay, so for teeth falling out, negative meanings, insecurities, especially about personal loss, anxiety about sexual experience, a compromise that's costly to you.

MaxNo, that's a cuck dream. I didn't have that dream. I just made that up. Your tooth cuck.

AlexNo, I didn't have that dream. Also fear of becoming older.

MaxI'm a strong alpha male. I don't have dreams about my teeth falling out. You want to meet me in the Target parking lot and fight? As long as it's not cold outside, I'll go.

AlexYou ready for an ass kicking? Oh, that's actually another really interesting thing. So this Chicago winter was supposed to be bitter and horrible, and that is the weather that I absolutely thrive in. But instead, it's like 60 fucking degrees outside, and I feel terrible every single day.

MaxYeah, it's like 20 degrees in this studio indoors.

AlexNo, it's slowly getting a little bit colder. But do you get this, Merlin? Are you more sensitive to weather and barometric pressure changes and stuff like that?

MerlinWell, I can tell you that I really don't like being too hot for too long. And I kind of like, I have to say, San Francisco has a very weird climate where it is mostly in the 50s most days. And I like that. I mean, overcast in 50 is fine with me. But I do like a little break. It has been raining torrentially here. Yes, in a way that we needed because it basically hasn't rained for 10 years. But, yeah, I mean, so we're finally getting a little bit of help with this drought that we've had. But it's depressing. I think setting aside all the stats, making a practice of walking.

I'm not an athlete, so give me a break. But making a practice of walking generally at least a mile and a half a day is really good for me. And I can accomplish most of that with basically going to the office, picking my daughter up from school, running some errands. I can easily do it a mile and a half, which I know is not a lot, but it's something. I mean, that's 360 miles a year. Like, that's something. And if you can't do that and you're inside and everybody gets a little stir crazy on the weekend, it's kind of crazy making. So, again, that's one where I'm looking for.

Right now, looking at exist.io with my 50 days of data is pretty limited. But, like, I'm really looking forward to what that will be in a few months. So, yeah, I mean, I grew up in Ohio, so it's no Chicago. but like I didn't realize there's so many reasons to be unhappy in Florida. And I think one of mine was I just I hated being hot all the time. I used to have to bring like two shirts to school every day. Like it was just it was very, very unpleasant. So like I don't miss that at all. Are you sensitive to heat? It sounds like you don't like being hot.

AlexWell, I just don't like being hot. But I think that's more of like a personal I'm just a baby who loves the air conditioning. but if the weather rapidly changes, my brain just goes haywire.

MerlinOh, your sinuses too, right?

AlexYeah, and unfortunately, I mean, it's a whole chain of bad things that happen because I have psych meds that fuck with my sinuses even more and then my sinuses get crazy.

MerlinAlso cats?

AlexYeah, the cats start shedding more and I found out that I've been having olfactory hallucinations which is a new kind of hallucination I've never had. But that's a strange thing where I think everything is moldy.

Yeah. Oh, my God. It's super weird. I'm a broken, terrible human. But the warmer it has been the past week, the more time I have spent on Twitter, according to my phone, which, again, was not surprising. But, yeah, yeah. I don't know.

MerlinYou're missing out, Max. There's so many insights. You get into this exist.io, there's so many insights that you're just going to love. Yeah, things like you walk a further distance when you take more steps.

AlexOh, God.

MerlinReally hooking up a lot of things.

AlexThat Lifesum app, no.

MerlinI don't know that one, Lifesum?

AlexI think you recommended it. It's the very startup-y one. The iPad's in L. Oh, this is the one that, yes.

MerlinI know the one you mean. I talked about this on the other program. Yeah. I tried this for a while, but it was very, some of the things that it noticed were very, very silly. It's like, would you like?

Speaker AYou eat more food when you have more calories.

MerlinWhat?

AlexIt just told me to eat grapefruit. It's like, you missed breakfast. Would you like to buy a grapefruit?

MerlinIt's basically like having an electronic senile ant. You used to like hard candies. Thank you. Why do shoelaces have to be so long? I don't know.

What else? Oh, so I want to talk about a couple other things here. Yeah, anyways, I don't want to just go on about rescue time. But, you know, I've mentioned this before. If you feel, if you're one of those people that occasionally goes, like, I'm busy, but I'm not getting stuff done. And, again, I will really recommend listening to this week's Cortex, as well as all of the Hello Internet shows. It's very interesting when Gray was talking about, and Gray and Mike were talking about, when you actually do start really tracking your time, you may notice that you're not as busy as you think or you're not as busy as you think in the places that you think. And you notice secret video game playing coming in and stuff like that.

I would just say if you've got a Mac and you're open to it, try running Rescue Time for a week because it may not change your life, but it can be very instructive in showing you things that were not apparent. Challenge next week.

MaxWhat's the next challenge? What's the next challenge?

MerlinOh, we've got to start wrapping this up.

MaxOkay. What do we got going on? What do we got?

AlexI, I, yeah, it's my challenge. Um, all right. I, so one, one would be to just automate one thing in your life that has, is not yet automated and you can interpret that any way you want.

MaxIf that's the challenge, I'm going to make you do my dry cleaning.

AlexI, I, there's a way to automate.

MaxI'm not, I'm not going to come to, I'm going to automate myself on the podcast next week. I'm just going to record a series of catchphrases and, uh, I'll have a board randomly interject. That's what she said. Suck my balls, suck my balls, suck my balls. Suck my balls.

12. Here Comes the Gum Man 0:00 / 01:00:35